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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Bob

    Wheres the parrot? and the sidekick?

    June 15, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
  2. Salt

    Bishop John Shelby Spong has exposed himself and written on this blog. Just so all are aware. This person is gay and is for gay rights. He has twisted the bible worse than any pretzel on this earth.....though he is a soul and God loves him – his writings are evil and have no truth in them. Just another gay (Catholic) person caught in utter confusion and trying to bring all of us into his own torment

    June 15, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Jen

      I'm sorry...how is expressing an opinion that differs than yours bringing 'you into his torment'. I know I didn't feel 'tormented' by reading this article....

      June 15, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • JWT

      How is being gay a problem ? Gay rights are a good and just thing to stand up for. If what you claim is true then I salute him as a fine human being.

      June 15, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • Bob

      Thank you Salt, Ive never heard of him ,but man is he off. He just keeps posting and posting the same bs is that what his books are like? I cant believe hes actually published he must have paid to get it done I can believe anyone would be that deceived into buying his books.

      June 15, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • Bob

      Hey Salt, he said Jesus was adopted ????? what a loon pretty impressive credentials for someone so far out there. Maybe when he gets in front of God he can present his credentials maybe God will be impressed. I wonder if God will ask him how to interpret for Him kinda like Job. What a scary thought. Remember when God talked about the responsibilities of teachers?

      June 15, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • Salt

      His teachings are nuts.....you can look them up online. Sorry to be that confused is torment.......this is how cults are started..

      June 15, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      And, salty, you have no authority to speak for god OR the truth.

      June 16, 2012 at 1:54 am |
  3. Bob

    You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness.You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness.Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity. You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD.You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Yup Im sure this last sentence has nothing to do with gays or same gender relationship gays are just Platonic aren't they????

    June 15, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • JWT

      Meaningless drivel bob. If your god supports this crap he is just plain dumb.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, then, it appears Bob's god really DID make Boob in his image: dumb as dirt, nearly illiterate, ignorant (and proud of it), and hateful.

      Just what I've come to expect from reading this blog.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Bob

      JWT
      Gods calling you!! it doesn't matter who you are what you've done. Just ask Jesus into your life find out who He is. He may not be dumb as mean or strict like you thought. I can tell you this He will welcome you. We worry about situations to much Jesus said come as you are!!!!

      June 15, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Bob

      TOM
      YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW

      June 15, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Boob, you've done nothing on this thread but lie. Ever heard the story of the boy who cried "Wolf"? Why would anyone believe a word you write when you are nothing but a liar and a stupid one to boot? Why would anyone believe what you say about your 'god' when he didn't give you a brain?

      June 15, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      BOOB, SO DO YOU.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • JWT

      I cannot imagine for a moment why I would want jesus in my life. Especially not your version. I seriously do not see the point.

      June 15, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
    • Bob

      JWT find out if I'm wrong you never know what you will find when you look.

      June 15, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • Bob

      HEY TOM you know if this blog is so dumb and below your standards we wouldn't mind if you spent a little more time cruising the other blogs like you do. Maybe we might even be able to have a intelligent conversation without insults hurled at us. What a concept, blogs without insults, is there such a thing?

      June 15, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • JWT

      Bob you are just wrong – and your concepts of what is right are wrong. If I ever felt any desire to learn about god – i could study you and the opposite wotuld be right.

      June 16, 2012 at 7:12 am |
    • Bob

      Sam you wouldn't have the faintest idea if God was talking to you or not so you have no idea who God uses to speak for Him. So in the same tone that has been through out this blog that makes you a liar

      June 16, 2012 at 7:35 am |
  4. Matthew

    Homosexuality is not a sin according to the Bible. Any educated Christian would know that. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, prostitution, and rape, not homosexuality. That’s why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will. This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God's will.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • Salt

      Sorry Mathew......you lose Bible trivia for today!! The Bible is full of scriptures that oppose the sin of omos-exuality, along with many other sins. Why exhaust everyone with this kind of statement. If the Bible did not oppose this sin – we would not be on this blog and the laws would have been changed a long time ago

      June 15, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
  5. Bob

    tom if we can get by the bs I will tell you my personal reasons, but what I have said you haven't liked and I have in other posts stated my objections including the fact that I dont agree with the APA that held a meeting in SF caved to threats and violence of the gay community. I have provided in previous posts scientific evidence that you didn't accept. I also would like to know why at one point did the dr agree then change his mind without providing any reason for the change. Gays stand on science but that is a slippery slope it does change.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "but what I have said you haven't liked and I have in other posts stated my objections including the fact that I dont agree with the APA that held a meeting in SF caved to threats and violence of the gay community. I have provided in previous posts scientific evidence that you didn't accept."

      The hundreds of thousands of experts have proven the science you provided is WRONG! By the way you're lying about the APA and it's not just the APA that is saying that being gay is NOT a mental Illness, it's NOT a choice and it CAN'T be voluntarily changed, it's world wide organizations. People like you are going around lying, passing judgement about the gay community spreading unfounded prejudice and bigotry towards this group. That.s why this statement came out from these organizations. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • Bob

      Yeah are you that naive or just have a few less marble than the rest? Im sure that when O gave the bail out and said it would save our country you believed him too. Or that a PSA level should be checked every year people were denied insurance because of a high PSA and now the story goes PSA isnt as important as thought. Like I said science absolutely knows for sure till it doesn't. People are the ones that pay the price for sciences arrogance making policies on non proven notions. Just like gays what happened to all the old studies that showed gays as deviants? Where did they all go and Id like to know what your going to do when they drop peds off the DSM

      June 15, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Like I said science absolutely knows for sure till it doesn't. People are the ones that pay the price for sciences arrogance making policies on non proven notions. Just like gays what happened to all the old studies that showed gays as deviants? Where did they all go and Id like to know what your going to do when they drop peds off the DSM"

      Wow are you dense, they proved that what was written in the past were done by bias and prejudice people, that includes the writers of your bible. The research is there which is why today the laws are changing. You just can't handle the fact your prejudice and bigotry is totally unfounded and NOT based on real facts.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • Bob

      wow yeah just how did they do that, I mean prove that the science community back then was biased and they are not biased now so don't they do the same scientific research now as then. so now we are sure its not biased but it was back then. I just cant believe those scientists back then what a shame tisk tisk tisk Its really amazing that biased got in the way of science back then. But now we have unbiased scientists what a relief, wwhheeeeewww Glad to see the basis for the gay agenda is on the new breed of scientists.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You are a dishonest person, Bob. You have lied and lied and then lied some more. You are asked direct questions and make one lame-azz excuse after another to avoid answering them. You claim you can cite studies but you don't. You pretend you can't figure out how to manage the internet, then proceed to use it to post nonsense that doesn't prove a thing you've asserted. The only bs here, Bob, is yours. You've been provided cites, sources, and reasons, and simply dismiss them all.

      Then you pretend that you "have your reasons" but you won't discuss them here and now. Instead, you'll continue to blather and blow more scripture that you proceed to interpret to excuse your hatred and prejudice. You're nothing but an old, stupid, windbag who lies about anything and everything.

      You're a great example of the sort of self-aggrandizing, sanctimonious "Christian" that no one would admire or emulate. You're a disgusting excuse for a human.

      Thanks for proving it.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
  6. Bob

    Wait John, I think Ive seen them, Learning to deceive in the kingdom, Im ok your ok with god, No rules no condemnation Christianity, The best seller was how to be a Christian in one easy step with no responsibilities. Or Accept now pay later theology. Or how to interpret the Bible without God. My favorite, how to get by the filters and publish garbage in one easy step.

    June 15, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • JWT

      You are not the spokesman for god. There are many that speak equally with many difffent messages.

      If yours is in fact the only way and your god will send to hell all those that do not agree with you then I hope you enjoy eternity with joseph stalin at your side.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Bob what are your credentials? Do you even have any? I am think you probably don't which is why your post are so hysterical because you're doing a great job at making fundamentalist christians look horrible. Thanks for doing such a great job at it, it's very entertaining. Oh yeah.....Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • Bob

      Jwt how in anyway would you know if I am a spokes person for God or not? He could be next to you and you wouldn't know it. You made a decision and life changed for you. Yeah what do you do type the first part of the response and just cut and paste the rest? Im going to call yeah parrot I think thats much more appropriate. By the way if Stalin accepted Jesus before he died I will probably see him before I see you! I know who's I am do you?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Bob definitely has no credible credentials. Duh!

      June 15, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • Bob

      yeah Im sure now thats fuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyy. How old are you maybe when you grow up you could become a Christian and stop all this nonsense

      June 15, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • Bob

      Hey yeah you defended the bishop pretty hard are you two have relations or maybe the same person whats the 411? The same club or what? Jesus warned us that there would be those that are form satan posing as a angel of light. In fact satan was the head of praise and worship in heaven and knows the Bible well enough to quote it but the difference was he misquoted the passages to Jesus when he and Jesus were on the mountain top. Jesus straightened him out on the quotes as I would say all here need to do.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:01 pm |
    • JWT

      I know who I am with no problrem Bob. I've never had a doubt on that.

      June 15, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
  7. charles

    and jonah lived in a whale, and the red sea parted for moses. and noah got all female and male animal in his quaint dingy. (including animals he never heard of, like polar bears and kangaroos). wow!!! that was some feat. your imaginary friend did perform miracles.

    June 15, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
  8. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Bob, why are you so wrapped around the axle about this issue? I have asked you and others before: how will anyone's gay marriage affect you in any way, shape, or form? You've attempted to claim that children adopted or born to gays will be damaged, but research has shown nothing of the sort.

    So what, exactly, is your major maladjustment with gay marriage?

    June 15, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
  9. uSadsky

    I have never been on board before I live in small country of backwords on the shores of the baltic sea pease fogive speeling

    June 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • uSadsky

      Sorry if hit your neurons. However, it ain't my fault if you chose to be pathetic and miserable.

      June 15, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
  10. mscharlee

    There is no Christain case for gay marriage. You obviously don't read the bible or you have one that is altered.

    June 15, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • Jeannine

      Yes there is.

      The Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed homosexuality activity as unnatural. Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of women expressed in the scriptures was a product of culture and the times in which the Bible was written; it should not be followed today, now that we are beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given equality of men and women.

      Similarly, as we know that homosexuality is just as natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realize that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form of sexual expression which were held by people without benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and understanding.

      It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth century mentality and understanding about equality of genders, races and sexual orientations on the Biblical writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural forms and attitudes expressed there.

      June 15, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
  11. Bob

    How does John who sounds like a agnostic or in to new age, which by the way tom you wouldn't want either, get by the filters to post that garbage again and again. OH and by the way I did read the piece I had to throw up after but I read it .Kind of made me wonder if the guy was around in the hippie movement. Yeah coooool duuuude peace love and tranquility

    June 15, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • John

      I am a bishop and I have written 12 books, what are your credentials?

      June 15, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And yet, here you are again with no cites, no evidence, and unable, AGAIN, to refute a single point John made.

      Your assertion that God wrote the Bible and therefore everything in it is his word is simply ludicrous. Biblical scholars know that it was written by men and reflects their understanding of the world at that time.

      June 15, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Bob

      Did you find anyone to publish them John? What are you a Bishop of the love chapel? Maybe if you would ask for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit you would really be able to understand the Bible instead of misleading people. How many have you led to the Lord lately and what has the Lord done through you lately healing, words of wisdom or knowledge anything or maybe just manuscripts.

      June 15, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Did you find anyone to publish them John? What are you a Bishop of the love chapel? Maybe if you would ask for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit you would really be able to understand the Bible instead of misleading people. How many have you led to the Lord lately and what has the Lord done through you lately healing, words of wisdom or knowledge anything or maybe just manuscripts."

      Obviously this troll isn't a real Christian because of the lies and judgements in this posts. So please people don't bother with his trash talk.

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience.

      The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
    • Bob

      Other Bob, yes, let's have a look at the bible, that Christian book of horrors. In it, we find evil Christian god demanding or doing horrid, evil stuff like this:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      June 15, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • Swimscout

      Bob,

      I am guessing that "John" is Bishop Spong who has written quite a few books that challenge traditional (i.e. evangelistic) views of Christianity. Even if "John" is not Bishop Spong, I would highly recommend anyone read Bishop Spong's books for a less mainstream view of what it means to be a Christian. I am always challenged by his thoughts and while I do not subscribe to all of his conclusions, I find that a lot of them make sense and not only do not diminsh me as a Christian, but instead strengthen me.

      But before you read Spong, I would suggest a reading of Adam Hamilton's Seeing Gray in a World of Black and White. It should give a good foundation for respecting opposing views. Especially opposing views in Christianity. I do not recall Christ ever excepting out any group of people from God's love. Part of our response in accepting His invitation is to strive to respect all of humanity – especially the ones we disagree with. Love your enemy....Turn the other cheek...What you do the the least of those, you do to me.... are not just feel good statements we say in Church and then promptly forget on our way out the door to beat the Baptists to the best Sunday lunch places. They are instructions on how to live our lives.

      Bob, I am glad you are a Christian. You have gays in your life. You may not realize it, but they are there. Give them the same love you give the people who are exactly like you and amazing things will happen in your life.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • Bob

      Swimscout Your right about one thing I do and did have gays in my life. I am not against gays in case you thought I was. I will also say this to you as gently as I can while there is no problem reading what people say about the Bible God made us a few promises that pertain to this. He said you have need for no one to teach for the Holy Spirit will reveal all things I say to you. He also said I will never leave you nor forsake you. The Bible being a book written by the Spirit is best interpreted by the Spirit. When reading the Bible ask the Holy Spirit to reveal things to you and explain it to you. He is excellent at doing this and loves to reveal the Bible to each one of us. Sometimes a passage will jump out at you and it will be either something you needed to hear or God giving you revelation. If you listen to man then where does God fit in? Do you remember we have to come like little children well those that study the Bible will never know the power and peace and joy they will get what they came for words. They have to know the author!! What do you want from God? Anyone that can teach you who God is can take Him away from you also. What a joy to fellowship with the Lord What a privilege. I wish I could tell you all Hes done for me.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
    • Salt

      You are doing just fine Bob, and you can clearly "out scripture' Mr Bishop man any day of the week!!!!! Any idiot can write 12 books and twist scripture. I love how he wants to highlight many of the other sins in the bible and make light of this one......very typical

      June 15, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
  12. aboyandhiscat

    Reblogged this on Φml.

    June 15, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
  13. ImLook'nUp

    The fact remains:

    Jesus knew God the Father.
    God the Father knew the Son.
    Jesus taught and upheld the Holy Scriptures.
    God put man + woman together.
    Jesus declares the Word of God.

    June 15, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Translation: I'm putting my fingers in my ears and not listening to any of you. Lalallallallalllaa!

      June 15, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "God put man + woman together.
      Jesus declares the Word of God."

      Nature also put gays together. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • charles

      what happened to this jesus when he was the age of thirteen to thirty two. at the age of thirteen he would never leave his fathers side. being a very religous jew he would never shame his father by leaving.

      June 15, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      @ TTtPS

      There is something about the Word of God teaching. Its the importance of Godly living and the manner at which to achieve said lifestyle. My fingers are not in my ears. My fingers are busy learning by turning pages. My eyes are busy watching. I will not stray from what God says. He put a man and woman together. Scripture at no time says different. Hence, I have no problem with the man + woman union. I do not disagree with the idea that a man can love another man or that of a woman loving another woman. I disagree with the idea that this should somehow become a way of life.

      So in short, I am free to disagree with the man + man or woman + woman union and I do.

      I choose man + woman.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • TC

      Gor also created gay people, who CANNOT be attracted to the opposite gender, and has been known to send them soulmates of the same gender. I suspect he knows more than you do about the subject, having created it and all.

      June 15, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      @ TC

      I believe God just gives a pat answer on some things. I can't say I always understand it. He's God and we're not.

      Its like: Sweetie, don't touch the stove....its HOT! Then you touch the stove and get burned. Hmmmmmmmm.

      June 15, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
  14. uSadsky

    Gays maybe allowed to get marry but MUST NEVER be allowed to adopt kids.

    June 15, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Jen

      Well they already do so it seems you are sh-t out of luck....

      June 15, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Have you been living in that cave for a while? Because gays have not only been adopting children for some time, but are also having children via artificial insemination and IVF.

      Has hell frozen over as a result? Nope. The children raised by gay couples are, according to the studies that have been done on them show they're no different than children in traditional families.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Do you care to offer any reasoning behind your statement?

      June 15, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Gays maybe allowed to get marry but MUST NEVER be allowed to adopt kids."

      Hundreds of thousands of experts have proven you wrong. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • uSadsky

      They MUST NEVER be allowed to get near to kids.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      But you are unable to explain why you believe this?

      June 15, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • *facepalm*

      Stop feeding the troll, people.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • uSadsky

      Congress must pass a law thta ultimately restrain gays from getting near to children.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • YeahRight

      "They MUST NEVER be allowed to get near to kids."

      Your ignorance and stupidity is showing. LMAO!

      June 15, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Well, I would, but it's so much fun! uSad, I guess you'd better hurry up and adopt all those children that are languishing in foster care before they're adopted by (gasp) gays.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Really-O?

      @YeahRight –

      ...or in terms of se.xual orientation. Children of same se.x couples do, however, differ from children of traditional families in one respect – they are more accepting of all se.xual orientations – and that's a good thing Anthony.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Congress must pass a law thta ultimately restrain gays from getting near to children"

      It won't happen since the exact opposite has been proven. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • uSadsky

      Experience maybe a terrible but yet a good teacher.

      *Facepalm*..FACEPALM yourself and STFU!

      June 15, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      facepalm is right. This is some knuckle-dragger who just got out of school for the summer. Blow it off.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • uSadsky

      You don't have the right to judge a person unless you've been what he gone through.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The only thing you've gone through is 10th grade.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • Facts Reveal

      No, I was in the 8th grade then, and......gays are TERRIBLE creatures!

      June 15, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You obviously have problems with reading comprehension.

      June 15, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "gays are TERRIBLE creatures!"

      They are human beings and the hundreds of thousands of experts have proven that they are normal people just like you. Being gay is NOT a mental illness, it's NOT a choice and it CAN'T be voluntarily changed. You really should seek professional help for your hatred it isn't healthy.

      June 15, 2012 at 4:46 pm |
    • TC

      Even though we raise lovely children?

      Whay do you base this idea on? What do you think we do differently in raising our kids?

      June 15, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
  15. Ermac

    In other words, there's whole sections of the Bible this guy doesn't buy. He likes Christianity. HIS version of it, anyway.

    June 15, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Did you actually READ the piece?

      June 15, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • Bob

      The author of this article or blog or opinion is so far off track that you have to wonder what he is talking about he has no idea. This article is a personal opinion voiced by a lawyer and in no way reflects the truth of the Bible. He has no understanding of the truth and by the way tom has no idea of the Bible so her comments on it are a waste of time also.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh. I must have REALLY hit a nerve.

      Bob, you didn't read the piece either?

      June 15, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • John

      @ Ermac I agree with this author.

      Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

      Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

      There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

      Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

      Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

      Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

      That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Janet

      "He has no understanding of the truth and by the way tom has no idea of the Bible so her comments on it are a waste of time also."

      The Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is based on human ignorance, suspicion of those who are different, and an overwhelming concern for ensuring the survival of the people. Since the Bible regards homosexuality as a capital crime, it clearly assumes that homosexuality is a matter of free choice, a deliberate rebellion against God. We have learned from modern science that people do not choose to be gay or straight; hence it is neither logical nor moral to condemn those whose nature it is to be gay or lesbian.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      John, great post and very informative.

      I wonder how Bob's going to refute it. He certainly can't claim that you don't know anything about the Bible, so I'm sure he'll have to look for some other reason to discredit you. Too bad whatever he writes won't be based on any facts.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Bob

      I LOVE JANETS remarks, ok so that is sarcastic ,So jent if I understand correctly when God gave Moses the laws in Leviticus and Moses said it was detestable neither Moses or God knew what the real reason behind being gay was and is today. That God just said that because He doesn't understand gays, NOW THATS Funny. and ignorant and I can hear Jenet say MOMMY can I please have my mommy Oh by the way the first 5 books of the Bible are called the books of Moses alias the Torah this is the laws and ways to live given to the Jews.

      June 15, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Moses the laws in Leviticus and Moses said it was detestable neither Moses or God knew what the real reason behind being gay was and is today."

      Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests.. So are you going to tell women now they have to marry their rapists and all the other sins listed in that particular scriptures? Duh! LOL! Keep showing the world you have no clue about the bible.

      June 15, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
  16. Bob

    Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.But evil people and impostors will flourish. They will deceive others and will themselves be deceived. But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, You have been taught the holy Scriptures from childhood, and they have given you the wisdom to receive the salvation that comes by trusting in Christ Jesus.All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is TRUE and to MAKE US REALIZE what is WRONG in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.God uses it to prepare and equip His people to do every good work.

    June 15, 2012 at 7:42 am |
    • Primewonk

      You religious idiots claim 90% of the country is Christian. You own the Whitehouse, the Senate, the House, and the Supreme Court. You own 50 governorships, 50 state legislatures, and 50 state supreme courts.

      And you have the unmitigated gall to whine that poor poor pitiful christians are being persecuted.

      Cry me a freaking river.

      June 15, 2012 at 8:10 am |
    • YeahRight

      "They will deceive others and will themselves be deceived."

      This is such a LIE! You are the one who is on this blog spreading your unfounded prejudice and bigotry. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Bob, you really take the cake. When it comes to hating people, you are the champ. But you are also a chump descended from a chimp. Evolution has not treated you well, my low-life friend. I proudly honor the apes that were my ancestors. You, unfortunately and quite unfairly, have skunks as ancestors.

      June 15, 2012 at 11:38 am |
  17. Bob

    This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God, Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

    June 15, 2012 at 7:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you are admitting that you have no basis for your claims about gay marriage, other than your interpretation of the Bible, Boob?

      Thanks for playing.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Really-O?

      @Bob –

      Yup. Sounds like the human condition (at least the seedier side). Not much prescience in that prophesy.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • YeahRight

      "WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION"

      The hundreds of thousands of experts have proven being gay is natural and it's been documented in 1500 other species, so being gay is totally normal and natural. Only prejudice bigots like you try to spread their unfounded hatred and that is NOT natural. ;-)

      June 15, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Babs, get your head out of your backside. Didn't I see you performing in a tribute to the Village People?

      June 15, 2012 at 11:28 am |
  18. Bob

    Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

    June 15, 2012 at 7:28 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I must say it's far easier to read your cut-and-paste of the bible, Bob, than it is to attempt to decipher your execrable writing. Too bad neither is relevant.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:10 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Bobby Sue, what are you talking about? A mommy's boy such as yourself shouldn't cast aspersions on others–not while you still wet the bed. Are you so much better than everyone else that you can sit as judge and jury?

      June 15, 2012 at 11:43 am |
  19. Bob

    God created man in HIS OWN IMAGE, in the image of God He created him, MALE AND FEMALE He created them.God blessed them, and God said to them, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

    June 15, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • Melvin

      @Bob –

      The Scriptures at no point deal with homosexuality as an authentic sexual orientation, a given condition of being. The remarkably few Scriptural references to "homosexuality" deal rather with homosexual acts, not with homosexual orientation. Those acts are labeled as wrong out of the context of the times in which the writers wrote and perceived those acts to be either nonmasculine, idolatrous, exploitative, or pagan. The kind of relationships between two consenting adults of the same sex demonstrably abounding among us - relationships that are responsible and mutual, affirming and fulfilling - are not dealt with in the Scriptures.

      June 15, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  20. Bob

    Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the TRUTH

    June 15, 2012 at 7:08 am |
    • myweightinwords

      What happens when that TRUTH is that I LOVE another woman? Or when that TRUTH is two men who LOVE one another and want to spend their lives together?

      What happens to love then? In another post you have said that your god created man in his image....that must include ALL men, no? And if that is true, then one must assume that a part of your god is also gay, since he created gay men.

      How then does your god deny happiness and love that you claim he wants his people to have, to a group of people who are merely what they have been created to be?

      June 15, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • YeahRight

      "but rejoices with the TRUTH"

      Oh the real truth about this subject is something you are clueless about. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 15, 2012 at 10:41 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.