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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. 1927henritta

    U can not change God!so sorry!!!!

    July 11, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • jwt

      god exists in the imaginiation so of course he can be changed to anything an individual wants him to be – it's a good way.

      July 11, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
  2. Bob

    Same-gender activists took over the podium and microphones. Then, “Konstantin Berlandt, of Berkeley GLF, paraded through the hall in bright red dress. Paper airplanes sailed down from the balcony. With two papers still unread, the chairman announced adjournment.” On June 23, 70 same-gender activists disrupted yet another meeting, this time in Chicago, be repeatedly shouting down the main speakers discourse. Then, in October at a meeting at the University of Southern California, same-gender activists shouted down a speaker and then took over the stage and the microphone

    July 11, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Who invited me?

      What is your point bob? do you have one?
      Protesting in this manner is as american as apple pie.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • Bob

      I you look yeah said lies so I will post more and more till the truth can be shown

      July 11, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Bob
      "I you look yeah said lies so I will post more and more till the truth can be shown"

      That's not even english Bob

      July 11, 2012 at 12:07 pm |
    • Primewonk

      "Same gender activists"

      So all the protestors were men? Or were they all women?

      July 11, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Then, in October at a meeting at the University of Southern California, same-gender activists shouted down a speaker and then took over the stage and the microphone"

      Yo moron, it's not just about the APA. Duh! The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
  3. Bob

    I get top billing not you LOL
    How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage.

    July 11, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Posting more of your moronic hate Bob...you really are obsessed with gay people bob
      You are probably gay bob...otherwise why would the subject upset you so.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Bob

      I have nothing against gays, I dont want gay marriage but I will not let lying rationalizations go on to justify the false positions that the gay agenda has said. If anyone is going to accept gays and gay marriage they are going to know the truth. The whole truth that there is no support for gay marriage and not much for gay adoptions. Gays live for the most part peacefully but the gay agenda and gay marriage is another story along with gay adoption. Plus the peds and all the rest of the ungodly have under the weak APA definition have been making headway at accepting that behavior also. Changing the fabric of society which is the plan for the gay agenda.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • Who invited me?

      It is you that want to change the "fabric of society" bob
      same s e x marriages have been going on since before any of the now popular religions existed Bob
      gay people have existed since humans have existed Bob.
      Why does it matter to you what any two people do Bob?
      What do you think the "gay agenda" is Bob?

      July 11, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Bob writes, "I have nothing against gays"

      Oh the irony.

      July 11, 2012 at 12:23 pm |
    • YeahRight

      How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. -LIE

      When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. -LIE

      The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. -LIE

      After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. -LIE

      The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. -LIE

      Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. -LIE

      I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. -LIE

      They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. -LIE

      Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. -LIE

      We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage.. -LIE

      July 11, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • YeahRight

      " not much for gay adoptions"

      The hundred of thousands of experts have proven you wrong.

      Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      July 11, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
  4. JP

    Is homosexuality a sin?

    Self-indulgence is a sin. But the relationship of two people of the same sex may or may not be self-indulgent.

    Abusing the neighbor is a sin. But the exploration of relationships among homosexuals as they search for partners, evaluate their existing formative relationships, and relate to each other may or may not be abusive.

    Disobeying what God commands in the Bible is a sin. But, we have biblically-derived criteria for assessing and applying specific commands by reading them against larger themes.
    Turning your back on God is a sin. Homosexuals are often among those who have turned their back on the church, and may be sinning because they also rejected the God they found in church. The church needs to be in mission to homosexuals with the message of Jesus and who God really is.

    Yielding to your passions, even celebrating them is a sin. Homosexuals do include those who have done this. But it is not an inherent aspect of being gay.

    Since we see people who have dedicated themselves to God, and for whom their gay sexual life is integrated into that decision and we see that their sexuality does not draw them away from church we must conclude that being and living gay is not a behavior in and of itself that produces pain to the neighbor and leads one away from God.

    By the criteria the scripture sets for us for what is godly life, and by the reasoning scripture asks us to employ, homosexuality cannot be described as against God’s law.

    If this seems like a rather quiet sort of justification for homosexuality then perhaps it is because the grand clichés of this debate have been shouted at us for too long. But look at the Bible: it's demands and vision cut across all categories, not staying on the surface but penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, rejecting all forms of self-justification, all forms of attack on the "other" and all forms of escape from God's assessment of our behavior. How on earth could we have ever thought that a series of flat rules was all God wanted to tell us on morality?

    July 11, 2012 at 10:35 am |
  5. YeahRight

    "Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on."

    You're such an idiot, it's more than that moron. Even the courts are ruling in their favor. Marriage was defined by the US Supreme Court as a civil right. Recognized federal civil rights law in the United States is grounded in the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. By this standard, marriage has long been established as a civil right.

    The operative constitutional text is section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which was ratified in 1868. The relevant passages read as follows:

    No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws

    A federal appeals court on May 31st ruled that the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional because it denies equal rights for legally married same-sex couples, making it likely that the Supreme Court will consider the politically divisive issue for the first time in its next term. This most likely will be decided in the courts and since most courts keep ruling in gays favor they should be able to over turn all the unconstitutional laws prejudice bigots have been trying to pass.

    July 11, 2012 at 10:34 am |
  6. Erik

    "and the worst studies ever put out by so called science."

    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    July 11, 2012 at 10:32 am |
  7. YeahRight

    "Truth for the gay agenda is not truth but lie upon lie upon lie and mixed with drama and more lies and the worst studies ever put out by so called science."

    Poor Bob can't handle the fact that hundreds of thousands of experts have proven you prejudice lying view of gays in WRONG. If you want to see what is so wrong with society in America read his post and recognize what unfounded prejudice is about. Everything he posts is lies not based on REAL facts. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 11, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  8. Bob

    How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage.

    July 11, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • YeahRight

      How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. -LIE

      When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. -LIE

      The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. -LIE

      After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. -LIE

      The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. -LIE

      Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. -LIE

      I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. -LIE

      They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. -LIE

      Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. -LIE

      We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage. -LIE

      July 11, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Bob

      Really funny take the whole thing and line by line call it a lie with no proof you are the liar and deciever and anyone that researches it will see the truth and it wont be yours

      July 11, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • YeahRight.

      "Really funny take the whole thing and line by line call it a lie with no proof you are the liar and deciever and anyone that researches it will see the truth and it wont be yours"

      Duh, it's not just the APA stating being gay is normal moron which is why everything you are posting is a lie. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      LOL! You're trying to say the 480,000 professionals are liars and part of the gay agenda and that is not even including the other world organizations that are also stating the exact same thing. You're the liar. DUH!

      July 11, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
  9. Bob

    2Ti 4:3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear.

    This Prophecy of the Bible is what we see here today and happening in these churches

    July 10, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • jwt

      yawn- fiction on the order of LR Hubbard.

      July 10, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • 1927henritta

      God does not change! People do. He killed them all in Sodom and Gomorrah. It's. The churches job to carry out his word. In addition. Not to be like the rest of the world. Remember! Aaron sons! He set them on fire.the churches. Will go into the lake of fire first.if they. Can not. Keep his word.

      July 11, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob,

      Amen.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • jwt

      Here we have a non-unique situation where there is what the bible says – and then we have what is right,

      July 11, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
  10. YeahRight

    "Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1986 letter to the Bishops of the Church, On the Pastoral Care of Hom os3 xual Persons, states that “although the particular inclination of the hom os3 xual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”'

    LMAO – you're trying to quote bogus science as your back up. LMAO! In 2012 the experts state that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 10, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      YeahRight you wrote: "Even the Pope states just being g ay isn't a sin."

      Yet, upon finding the quote in its entirety and the subject matter surrounding it, you turn around and dispute the claim.
      I Don't think the Pope is in your corner for this one. He's just not supporting s-s marriage.

      The Pope describes g ay marriage as "pseudo-matrimony".
      "Pseudo" as in; counterfeit, pretend, a sham.
      "Matrimony" as in; the state of being husband and wife.

      God never joined a man + man or a woman + woman in marriage. Ever.

      July 10, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "YeahRight you wrote: "Even the Pope states just being g ay isn't a sin." "

      Thanks for proving you have really bad reading comprehension skills. Duh!

      July 11, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      I comprehend just fine –Thanks!

      My Bible reading keeps me close to what a Holy Father teaches, soooo much to learn!

      You on the other hand don't seem to grasp the idea that God does not approve of nor allow for s-s marriage. Show me the Scripture verse. Please! print it for me, I want to see it for myself. Where oh where is it?

      OOOOOOh, that's right. There isn't one. So, these folks are all getting on the s-s bandwagon for? ?? Whaaaat? Because some persons are telling them it's OK and it feels good and wonderful and I don't have to answer for my actions?

      If that's what yoooou believe......not everyone is taking that route.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • YeahRight.

      "You on the other hand don't seem to grasp the idea that God does not approve of nor allow for s-s marriage. Show me the Scripture verse. Please! print it for me, I want to see it for myself. Where oh where is it?

      OOOOOOh, that's right. There isn't one. So, these folks are all getting on the s-s bandwagon for? ?? Whaaaat? Because some persons are telling them it's OK and it feels good and wonderful and I don't have to answer for my actions? "

      Show me the scripture that actually states your god condemns the saved loving respectful gay marriage....ooooohhh that's right it doesn't' exist. DUHHHHHHH! By the way you still are missing the point and continued to prove your really bad reading comprehension issues.

      July 11, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OD'y. Keep trying. Good luck. God's word will prove itself true every time. That's the cool part! What you write doen't hold up to what God says.

      God never joined a s-s couple in marriage. Ever.

      Honey, God ONLY joined male and female together. That's how He did it. Yep. Read it. –Not a man + man or a woman + woman as you continue to insist.

      Male + Female = a marriage. Simple. God set it up that way. Easy to understand.

      : )

      July 11, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • *sigh*

      Then why is the bible filled with examples of godly marriages in a m+f+f+f+f+f+f+f.... etc. config. Did you actually read your bible?

      Or maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant as to know the thoughts of the creator of the cosmos.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Then why is the bible filled with examples of godly marriages in a m+f+f+f+f+f+f+f.... etc. config"

      Oh yeah, and don't forget that if your wife can't have children you can rape a slave or best of all to start an entire population you can have sex with your siblings! LOL! Yeah, the poor moron isn't getting the point the condemnation of the loving gay marriage isn't address in the bible because there is no condemnation for it. LMAO!

      July 11, 2012 at 4:24 pm |
    • William

      "Yep. Read it. –Not a man + man or a woman + woman as you continue to insist. "

      Polygynous Marriage
      Probably the most common form of marriage in the bible, it is where a man has more than one wife.

      Levirate Marriage
      When a woman was widowed without a son, it became the responsibility of the brother-in-law or a close male relative to take her in and impregnate her. If the resulting child was a son, he would be considered the heir of her late husband. See Ruth, and the story of Onan (Gen. 38:6-10).

      A man, a woman and her property — a female slave
      The famous “handmaiden” sketch, as preformed by Abraham (Gen. 16:1-6) and Jacob (Gen. 30:4-5).

      A man, one or more wives, and some concubines
      The definition of a concubine varies from culture to culture, but they tended to be live-in mistresses. Concubines were tied to their “husband,” but had a lower status than a wife. Their children were not usually heirs, so they were safe outlets for sex without risking the line of succession. To see how badly a concubine could be treated, see the famous story of the Levite and his concubine (Judges 19:1-30).

      A male soldier and a female prisoner of war
      Women could be taken as booty from a successful campaign and forced to become wives or concubines. Deuteronomy 21:11-14 describes the process.

      A male rapist and his victim
      Deuteronomy 22:28-29 describes how an unmarried woman who had been raped must marry her attacker.

      A male and female slave
      A female slave could be married to a male slave without consent, presumably to produce more slaves.
      and of course …

      Monogamous, heterosexual marriage
      What you might think of as the standard form of marriage, provided you think of arranged marriages as the standard. Also remember that inter-faith or cross-ethnic marriage were forbidden for large chunks of biblical history.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:41 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      The configuration is always Male and female. Oh, I can read. Sometimes it has been male and female(s). It's always male and female. And that's just it –male and female. Where does God ever join male + male or a female + female in a marriage setting? Nowhere. So the union of man + woman is the design pattern of God for humankind since the beginning. The ending will be male + male or a female + female because man will no longer follow the prefect design that was set up and implemented by a Holy God. And man, His creation, is going to do it better? Thanks. We've reached the end. The pinnacle of civilization....man no longer grows up, he grows out, reaching for whatever tickles his fancy.

      I follow the man + woman design because I believe in it. God set it up that way.

      July 11, 2012 at 5:50 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "I follow the man + woman design because I believe in it. God set it up that way."

      You have no clue what you're talking about especially since homosexual relationships have been documented in over 1500 other species and the experts around the world have stated that being gay is natural and normal. The only one trying to distort this fact are bias and prejudice bigots like you. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful relationship of a gay couple.

      July 12, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • *sigh*

      So you're fine with polygamy, just not gay marriage., Got it.

      Are you also ok with beating your slaves to death? Because you're god set that up, too.

      July 12, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OD'y. Dude....Nowhere, and I do stress NO WHERE in the Bible does God support s-s marriage. Not if they're "saved"....Not if they're "loving"....Not if they're "respectful"....Get a grip OD'y, there is no support for it. I didn't believe that 10+ years ago and I don't believe it today and I won't believe it tomorrow.

      God joined a male and a female together in a union. God blessed it. : ) How wonderful!

      *sigh* Gay marriage is not even in the same park as polygamy.

      July 12, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "God joined a male and a female together in a union. God blessed it. : ) How wonderful! "

      Your god also blessed the loving gay relationship because it is NOT condemned in your bible. Your god then also created the other 1500 species that have been documented also having these types of relationships. All you are proving is you don't understand history, rape, male prostitution and worshiping a pagan god using sex. Time to get an education. Duh!

      July 18, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      Sorry OD'y. God never blessed a gay marriage.

      God always joins male and female.

      July 19, 2012 at 7:18 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "God always joins male and female."

      You're wrong especially since science and the experts have shown being gay is NORMAL. They have also shown that their relationships are just as loving and caring as straights. They have also proven gay couples make great parents too. LMAO! Keep showing how clueless you are on this subject, especially now that churches are marrying gay couples. LMAO!

      July 23, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OD'y. It's too bad that some folks in the Church have become mislead by a few.

      I'm not laughing.

      July 23, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "OD'y. It's too bad that some folks in the Church have become mislead by a few"

      LMAO! No moron, they have been educated on the real truth about the gay community and don't hold onto their unjustified prejudices like you. Duh! Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 24, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OD'y. God is Holy and His example of the male and female union are throughout the Bible. That justifies my decision to also support it.

      God/Jesus/Holy Spirit are wonderful teachers. Too bad you have been absent for class.

      July 26, 2012 at 9:46 am |
    • YeahRight

      "OD'y. God is Holy and His example of the male and female union are throughout the Bible. That justifies my decision to also support it. "

      LMAO – So are you going to support a woman has to marry her rapists, a man can have several wives, men can have slaves, etc...etc.... Oh that's right you're just a homophobic bigot who reads their prejudice into the scriptures. LMAO! I realize you have reading comprehension problems but nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving long term relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. Duh! LOL! LOL!

      July 26, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OD'y, I'm cooking pork for supper tonight. I occasionally order shrimp at the local restaurant –I like it deep fried and crunchy. Ketchup on the side.

      And your point? I'm not buying into s-s marriage. Ever. I've seen the light, OD'y, and it don't bother me one tiny bit to tell you that s-s marriage is a pseudo union, not approved by God -anywhere- and proven time and time and time again to be the downfall of civilized man. Drag yourself under OK'yDok'y. Gather as many as possible to join you. Be proud! Be brave!

      Brovoooo!! Cheers satan from the side lines as OD'y passes by with his flock...

      July 26, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • YeahRight

      “OD'y, I'm cooking pork for supper tonight. I occasionally order shrimp at the local restaurant –I like it deep fried and crunchy. Ketchup on the side.
      And your point? I'm not buying into s-s marriage. Ever. I've seen the light, OD'y, and it don't bother me one tiny bit to tell you that s-s marriage is a pseudo union, not approved by God -anywhere- and proven time and time and time again to be the downfall of civilized man. Drag yourself under OK'yDok'y. Gather as many as possible to join you. Be proud! Be brave!
      Brovoooo!! Cheers satan from the side lines as OD'y passes by with his flock...”

      Oh poor baby can’t handle the fact that you’re just a homophobic bigot and not a true Christian with all the lies you’re spewing. LOL! You must have missed it in the news where Churches are marrying gay couples and have proven that the scriptures do not condemn their unions. Only prejudice bigots like you read that into the scriptures. LOL! Thanks for the laugh each day because of your stupidity is hysterical! LOL! Next….By the way who’s OD’y – Bob? LOL!

      July 27, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      OK'yDok'y, I know who you are. OD'y for short. YeahRight is WaaaaayWrong.

      Hey OD'y, since you laugh alot, –just about every post you make– I'm thinking you are The Joker, the nemesis of Batman. Batman is out to do good in a darkened society and The Joker has only one purpose –evil. Yep, you're like The Joker in my book. I can hear your laughter even now, and it never helps you, does it?

      God wins, OD'y. Always does. Always will. He's Holy. When your life is over, where will you be? You may know about Scripture, but you don't live it, your words give you away. The Joker can't hide. The Joker is always up to no good and no God.

      I'm a Christian. Have been for many years. You're not. If you were, you would have said so.

      If you ain't walking with Jesus, you're keeping company with satan. I'm sure you've read REVELATION. We know where satan and his cronies end up and it ain't with God.

      God joins man and woman. Plain and simple. It's sad that some are being mislead by a few.

      Keep laughing OK'yDok'y, you're doing one heck of a cronie job!

      July 27, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • YeahRight

      OK'yDok'y, I know who you are. OD'y for short. YeahRight is WaaaaayWrong.
      “Hey OD'y, since you laugh alot, –just about every post you make– I'm thinking you are The Joker, the nemesis of Batman. Batman is out to do good in a darkened society and The Joker has only one purpose –evil. Yep, you're like The Joker in my book. I can hear your laughter even now, and it never helps you, does it?”
      LMAO! That’s all you got really. LOL! So laughing is evil in your book, what a moron.

      “God wins, OD'y. Always does. Always will. He's Holy. When your life is over, where will you be? “

      Your god doesn’t exist it’s a man made concept that you are hiding behind to try and justify your uneducated prejudiced bigotry. LMAO! LOL! LOL!!!!!!

      “You may know about Scripture, but you don't live it, your words give you away. The Joker can't hide. The Joker is always up to no good and no God. “

      Nice assumptions on your part you have NO clue who I am, but I will admint you are merely entertainment for me and a great way to use you in showing the world what uneducated prejudice bigots look like and how uninformed you are. LMAO! LOL!
      “I'm a Christian. Have been for many years. You're not. If you were, you would have said so.”

      Actually, you’re not with all the lies and arguing you have been doing on this blog. You’re nothing like your Christ.
      I”f you ain't walking with Jesus, you're keeping company with satan. I'm sure you've read REVELATION. We know where satan and his cronies end up and it ain't with God.”

      Uh, yo – idiot since you aren’t following the bible to the letter if your satan did exist that’s where you’re going to be, lying is a major sin according to your rule book, but since you have a severe reading comprehension problems, we all get why you can’t even seem to follow that you’re your lies about me proves that one. LOL! LOL! LMAO!!!!!!
      “God joins man and woman. Plain and simple. It's sad that some are being mislead by a few.”

      No, the point is you’ve been proven wrong in your uneducated prejudice interpretations of the scriptures and your ego can’t handle it. Oops another reason you’ll be going to your hell. LMAO!
      “Keep laughing OK'yDok'y, you're doing one heck of a cronie job!”

      Actually, the reason you think that is because you’re the one who has been proven wrong which is why your bruised ego and pride can’t handle it which is why you continue spewing your stupidity on this subject. LMAO!

      LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!

      July 27, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      I have Jesus. I have it all.

      And someday, when you wake up in death, you will be –n o t h i n g.

      July 27, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      ILU, you're nothing but a bigoted blowhard, the worst kind of believer. Why would ANYONE want to be anything like you? You're desp icable.

      July 27, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "I have Jesus. I have it all.

      And someday, when you wake up in death, you will be –n o t h i n g."

      Nah, you're nothing but a prejudice bigoted coward, who only wants to spread hate and lies about the gay community, your Jesus will not want such a person in his heaven. LMAO!!!!! LOL!!!!

      July 28, 2012 at 10:59 am |
  11. Proclamation From 100 Pastors

    As Christian clergy we proclaim the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

    July 10, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • Bob

      Jas_3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
      2Pe_2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

      July 10, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

      You're the one who is continually lying on this tread so you are such a hypocrite. LMAO!

      July 11, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob,

      Again, Amen.

      July 11, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • YeahRight

      "HeavenSent

      Bob,

      Again, Amen."

      Bob and Heaven sent are the same person. LOL! Nice try, but the experts have proven you wrong.

      July 11, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
  12. YeahRight

    "They said to you, "In the last times, there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit."

    That's why there are thousands of gay churches, gay clergy and even the Pope state just being gay isn't a sin. Only prejudice bigots make up lies like this one.

    July 10, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • ImLook'nUp

      Pope Benedict has never and won't be performing any s-s marriages:

      Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1986 letter to the Bishops of the Church, On the Pastoral Care of Hom os3 xual Persons, states that “although the particular inclination of the hom os3 xual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”

      The Pope describes g ay marriage as “pseudo-matrimony” and declared that “The various forms of the dissolution of matrimony today, like free unions, trial marriages…by people of the same-s 3x, are rather expressions of an anarchic freedom that wrongly passes for true freedom of man.”

      God never joined a man + man or a woman + woman in marriage. Ever.

      July 10, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Pope Benedict has never and won't be performing any s-s marriages:"

      I never said that idiot. Try again.

      July 11, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      YeahRight/Ok'yDok'y/OD'y –Yoooou brought the Pope into it! He's gonna advise you to be celebate and honor God with your body. I have to go with that myself. Good advise because there isn't another answer. You aren't gonna answer to me. God gave you the ability to see and know the Truth because it's all been made available. It's up to you, honey. Read it and learn it.

      July 11, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • YeahRight.

      "God gave you the ability to see and know the Truth because it's all been made available. It's up to you, honey. Read it and learn it."

      Keep showing the world how clueless you are because your deep prejudice is making you blind to the REAL truth. Duh! Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 11, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
  13. James

    "God never joined a man + man or woman + woman in marriage. Ever"

    The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

    July 10, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
  14. YeahRight

    "Yeah maybe you better stick to the cut and paste that you know"

    That's why all you've done on here is lie after lie. You have not clue about the real facts of this subject. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

    July 10, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
  15. Bob

    Yeah maybe you better stick to the cut and paste that you know
    Jud 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
    Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
    Jud 1:8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
    Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
    Jud 1:10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
    Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
    Jud 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
    Jud 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
    Jud 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
    Jud 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
    Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • ImLook'nUp

      JUDE continues:

      But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ fortold. They said to you, "In the last times, there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

      God never joined a man + man or woman + woman in marriage. Ever.

      July 10, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • William

      Bob, Jude does not define exactly what sexual "perversion" he is referred to here. It seems to be sexual in nature, because it is coupled with a condemnation of fornication. Jude was referring to:

      -The intent of the mob to rape the angels. Rape is a clear perversion of God-given sexuality.

      -The fact that the angels were non-human. This would have made their sin of rape even worse; bes tiality would have been involved.

      It has nothing to do with homosexual orientation as defined by the APA.

      July 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • Bob

      About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.
      This was from Josephus so you don't even have to interpret the Bible I have made it easy for you.

      July 10, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • Bob

      Will
      you like most the ones that side with the gays are so biased that you believe all the bs the small minority of your group vomits out. This is a prime example, how the hell could all the scholars down through the ages be wrong about Sodom and Gomorrah? If any of the so called 100 pastors had even cracked the Bible with a ounce of understanding and not been so deluded that they couldn't see the facts as clear as the nose on their face then maybe we would know that they are liars or deceived or just trying to destroy a society that was at one time great. Truth for the gay agenda is not truth but lie upon lie upon lie and mixed with drama and more lies and the worst studies ever put out by so called science. Even to the point the APA doesn't have a clue, there is no agreement among the people who belong and those that did belong have quit because of all the bs that is happening it really reflects a agency in trouble big trouble. If they cannot consistently agree among themselves and establish cohesive policies that all can agree with then how are we going to believe them? There isn't enough money out there to do a real study when its done and shows problems with gays then they attack, so who in their right mind would want to do one.

      July 11, 2012 at 7:47 am |
    • YeahRight

      "This is a prime example, how the hell could all the scholars down through the ages be wrong about Sodom and Gomorrah?"

      Yo moron it wasn't till recently that people started to try and use it to condemn gays. Duh! It's bias and prejudice people like you that read it into the scriptures. Duh!

      July 11, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, it's typical of people that refuse to abide in Jesus' wisdom to change His scriptures to what they want Him to have said (lies) instead of what He said (truth).

      July 11, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • YeahRight.

      "Bob, it's typical of people that refuse to abide in Jesus' wisdom to change His scriptures to what they want Him to have said (lies) instead of what He said (truth)."

      Since we know that bob and HS are the same person you are ridiculous. LMAO! You've been proven wrong by the experts in theology as well as the APA. You are too blinded by your deep prejudice to the REAL truths. Duh!

      July 11, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Bob

      Yeah you are trully a pimple on the butt of society I have given passage after passage of proof and you have come up with nothing nada zilch just the same cut and paste from someone else. Your not original, creative, intelligent, and just a plain yuck. You have the same old tired dribble that you post, what a waste, you are truly the reason this post goes on too because you are so stupid that you keep posting the same garbage and all the posts have new information that makes you look bad. You quote gay sources and gay people no wonder you are so bias you cant even think properly. As for condemning gays they tried to distort the Bible to have acceptance of their ways but there isn't any so gays including yourself dont like it. As for using it to condemn gays it always has it just that a man from the APA decided to lie and distort the truth, thats the problem moron.You side with man and hope he wins, well he may win the battle but he will lose the war. You cant fool all of the poeple all of the time they do have a brain and will wake up to this bs you post, thats what it is about awaking the sleeper and you are helping for that thanks.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You have done nothing of the sort, you moron.

      July 12, 2012 at 9:01 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Isn't it a sin to bear false witness Bob?
      You make a lot of claims that in your sick twisted mind you BELIEVE,
      But you offer no proof,only speculation and you twist the words in your bible (your god DOES have a problem with you when you twist HIS word toward your own agenda,and twist it against some of HIS children, doesn't he BOB?)
      You are an idiot Bob, and for justthe things I have seen you post, the venomous hate you spew...you will burn

      July 12, 2012 at 9:10 am |
  16. Lorraine Voss

    I have nothing against gays, or gay marriage for everyone has to be responsible for their own righteousness through YHWH, as taught in Ezekiel 14-20. Until then, no one who is of flesh, and blood can judge another, only the Almighty YHWH, the Creator of all life can.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  17. YeahRight

    "WHAT MAKE PEOPLE BECOME GAY ?? IS BEYOND ME... WHY ???????? "

    Obviously you can't read. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

    July 10, 2012 at 11:08 am |
  18. JOSE0311USMC

    WHAT MAKE PEOPLE BECOME GAY ?? IS BEYOND ME... WHY ????????

    WITH SO MANY HOT WOMEN OUT THERE, WHY DO GUYS WANT TO BE GAY ??? HEY MORE WOMEN FOR ME....I WISH ALL MEN WERE GAY, MORE WOMEN FOR ME.

    July 10, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • midwest rail

      " More women for me ". Judging from your eloquent posting style, my guess is you couldn't get laid in a women's prison with a fistful of pardons.

      July 10, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • myweightinwords

      What makes you straight?

      July 10, 2012 at 11:15 am |
  19. Erik

    "WHAT MAKE PEOPLE BECOME GAY"

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

    July 10, 2012 at 10:42 am |
  20. John

    "We see the lies and distortion of the Bible here and if there is no respect and want to preserve the true word of God"

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

    July 10, 2012 at 10:40 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.