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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • My Take • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. YeahRight

    "those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt"

    This is a lie because many that are posting the REAL truth about the gay community are straights so there is not alleviating guilt involved. You think everyone who is in support of civil rights for gays is gay and you are WRONG!

    July 13, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • Primewonk

      Spot on. I've never been able to figure out why these ignorant hômophobes àssume that everyone who supports gay rights is gay. I became politcally aware in the late 60's. I supported civil rights then – yet I am not black. I supported ERA in the 70's – yet I am not a woman.

      July 13, 2012 at 10:23 am |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, straight or gay, it doesn't matter. Changing His truth to what you want Him to say instead of what He said is a fast ticket to the eternal flames.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:17 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Changing His truth to what you want Him to say instead of what He said is a fast ticket to the eternal flames."

      Only prejudice and bigoted people read discrimination of gays in the bible. You are nothing more than a LIAR who refuses to acknowledge the truth about gays today. You are part of the problem and nothing like your Christ. Duh! Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 16, 2012 at 10:37 am |
  2. YeahRight

    "Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. "

    The point is Bob no one is changing what is written in the bible, what they are pointing out to you is that you are reading your own prejudice and bigotry into the scriptures against the gay community. There is no way the writers of the bible understood sexual orientation the way we do today because it wasn't studied back then. The experts have proven that what was written about gays in the past were done by bias and prejudice people, that includes some of the writers in the bible. These experts are stating that heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 13, 2012 at 10:17 am |
    • Bob

      You are so far off the mark not able to come to understanding and from this point not worth replying to goodbye

      July 13, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • YeahRight

      "You are so far off the mark not able to come to understanding and from this point not worth replying to goodbye"

      No I am not you're nothing more that lying hateful person and nothing like the example your Christ set. Duh!

      July 13, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • fred

      A normal human experience also includes putting your hand on a hot stove so 3 cheers for all your quoted experts!
      It remains a choice and defines your character when this life is over (which it will be). Some choose to give their life to Christ others do not. That is the biggest choice in anyones life.
      $exuality of all kinds was known long before the Greeks put their twisted minds to it. Your life your choice forget the experts they are all worldly and do not address anything of God. Now, if you want a godless world then anything goes and all is "normal"

      July 13, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Erik

      "Your life your choice forget the experts they are all worldly and do not address anything of God. Now, if you want a godless world then anything goes and all is "normal""

      All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

      The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

      On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

      The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

      Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

      There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

      July 13, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      YeahRight, those mere mortals in that organizations are not going to be standing next to a gay person when they die and meet Jesus. Stop listening to man. Read Jesus' truth on your own and make the necessary changes He wants for you to stop sinning.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:21 am |
    • Observer

      Heaven will be full of Christian adulterers since there are MILLIONS and MILLIONS of them.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:37 am |
    • YeahRight

      "YeahRight, those mere mortals in that organizations are not going to be standing next to a gay person when they die and meet Jesus."

      How would you know they are the ones stating the REAL truth today, not you. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 16, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  3. Bob

    As I think about the back and forth that is happening here I am wish sometimes that God was like the big corporations that if you violated the contract terms of employment that you would be fired. This is a immediate and noticeable rebuff that you did or said something wrong. But then I also remember that none would probably make it into heaven. But God doesn’t work this way and its not until the very end of our life that most really realize the mistakes they have done in life. The Bible promises us that the rewards and punishments will be waiting for us. When I became a Christian I looked at the contract between me and God and understood by faith the agreement and understood that I would break that agreement at times and also have forgiveness when I did. This was done by faith in the work that God did through Jesus. But I always knew the rules and what to live by and if something happened in my life the Spirit would remind me that I needed to ask forgiveness or make amends. I never wanted to change the rules in the Bible because even if you change words you will not change the rewards or punishment. I also know that I wanted a solid guide to meditate on and think about that would lead me to a greater knowledge of who I serve. I know I can’t live to the standards that God has set and no man can but I have faith in Him, I don’t need to bend or change the rules. Heck if I did it would only add more confusion which I want less of. I am not God either I wouldn’t dream of having the disrespect of changing His Word. Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. The other thing is He looks after His word to make sure it performs all that He intended it to. God has made time and made all the things of this world how amazing is it that those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt rather than embrace the word so that it would do what it is supposed to do. That is drive us to God in hopes of redemption and a life with Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith not the Bible. God is not the Bible but the Bible is a piece of God. I love the word I love the promises of God I love the revelation of God to His own. He is not dead and He still does move in the lives of those that know Him. It’s not about religion but relationship. I would say this the Christian religion is based upon the Bible if you don’t like the words of the Bible and feel condemned why don’t you go make your own religion instead of trying to basterdise Christianity. But its all about feelings isn’t it, and if you feel bad then it must be bad but that is the farthest from the truth sometimes. To change how you feel sometimes we have to change how we act and the standard that shows us is the Bible. Have faith He is faithful and able to complete a good work in us. That is what matters if you don’t pin point the problem then you will never come to the solution. The rewards that I have receive far outweigh anything that I may have had to give up

    July 13, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • Who invited me?

      More of bobs ignorant ranting

      July 13, 2012 at 10:19 am |
    • tallulah13

      Bob, you can make the choice to be a fair, decent human being. Or you can continue to disregard reality, hating people for no reason other than the vain hope that some unsubstantiated super-being will reward you for your inflexible ignorance. There is no reason to believe that your 'reward' will be any different than that of anyone else. Dead is dead, bob. It's the only outcome any of us can expect. And really, what's so terrible about that?

      July 16, 2012 at 1:54 am |
  4. YeahRight

    "I also find 2 other things interesting about the gay agenda they call it gay pride well that was the reason God destroyed Sodom thats also the reason they could revile angelic majesty,because of pride"

    Wow are you clueless on this subject. Gay pride means making sure that the next generation has an easier time in school than they did, having families more accepting of their sexual orientation and gender identity than families in the past. Gay pride means changing laws so that same–sex couples receive the same rights and benefits as heterosexual couples and that gays are safe from bashing and can’t be fired from their jobs. Pride is having the courage to come out to friends, family, and coworkers. Straight people who know gay people are more supportive of their rights than people who don’t.

    It has NOTHING to do with how you are trying to twist the truth. Duh!

    July 12, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
  5. JP

    Is homosexuality a sin?

    Self-indulgence is a sin. But the relationship of two people of the same sex may or may not be self-indulgent.

    Abusing the neighbor is a sin. But the exploration of relationships among homosexuals as they search for partners, evaluate their existing formative relationships, and relate to each other may or may not be abusive.

    Disobeying what God commands in the Bible is a sin. But, we have biblically-derived criteria for assessing and applying specific commands by reading them against larger themes.
    Turning your back on God is a sin. Homosexuals are often among those who have turned their back on the church, and may be sinning because they also rejected the God they found in church. The church needs to be in mission to homosexuals with the message of Jesus and who God really is.

    Yielding to your passions, even celebrating them is a sin. Homosexuals do include those who have done this. But it is not an inherent aspect of being gay.

    Since we see people who have dedicated themselves to God, and for whom their gay sexual life is integrated into that decision and we see that their sexuality does not draw them away from church we must conclude that being and living gay is not a behavior in and of itself that produces pain to the neighbor and leads one away from God.

    By the criteria the scripture sets for us for what is godly life, and by the reasoning scripture asks us to employ, homosexuality cannot be described as against God’s law.

    If this seems like a rather quiet sort of justification for homosexuality – then perhaps it is because the grand clichés of this debate have been shouted at us for too long. But look at the Bible: it's demands and vision cut across all categories, not staying on the surface but penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, rejecting all forms of self-justification, all forms of attack on the "other" and all forms of escape from God's assessment of our behavior. How on earth could we have ever thought that a series of flat rules was all God wanted to tell us on morality?

    July 12, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
  6. YeahRight

    "Studies we can find them on each side, the definition as we both know is true, why gays came off the DSM. "

    That's a lie the entire professional organizations came together to show they are united on this subject. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 12, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
  7. YeahRight

    "Why also did the gays have to take the symbol of the rainbow as their symbol. The very thing God said He gave the world as a sign that He would not flood it ever again. "

    That's really because heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
  8. Bob

    I also find 2 other things interesting about the gay agenda they call it gay pride well that was the reason God destroyed Sodom thats also the reason they could revile angelic majesty,because of pride. Why also did the gays have to take the symbol of the rainbow as their symbol. The very thing God said He gave the world as a sign that He would not flood it ever again. The devil counterfeits everything God has. God has a star the devil has a pentagram, God is light the devil comes as a angel of light. Is it just coincidence?

    July 12, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      you are an ignorant fool bob

      July 13, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • myweightinwords

      "I also find 2 other things interesting about the gay agenda they call it gay pride well that was the reason God destroyed Sodom thats also the reason they could revile angelic majesty,because of pride."

      So much in this one run on sentence. First, I've been a part of the LGBT community for close to 12 years and I have yet to learn what this so called agenda is. Second "pride" is different from an agenda. Pride is a group of people standing up to say "we won't be silenced, marginalized or forgotten. we matter." Nothing more.

      Third, just yesterday, you said that the sin of Sodom was gay s.e.x. Today it's pride. Which is it, Bob?

      "Why also did the gays have to take the symbol of the rainbow as their symbol. The very thing God said He gave the world as a sign that He would not flood it ever again. The devil counterfeits everything God has. God has a star the devil has a pentagram, God is light the devil comes as a angel of light. Is it just coincidence?"

      The rainbow, as I understand it, represents diversity. It has little to do with god.

      And, for what it's worth? A pentagram is only a star with a circle drawn around it. There is nothing satanic about it. Different paths use it to represent different things, the points can symbolize the five elements (earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and thus represent man.

      July 13, 2012 at 10:35 am |
  9. Bob

    So in the first place I thought that if you were hetero then you liked women how is it that they were hetero and gay??? How do you explain the fact that they would not take lots daughters to mean that they were passing by women in favor of men that sure sounds gay to me.
    Next there are 47 verses that mention Sodom so you missed a few and what do you think Gods definition of immorality is?? As for the timing of the angels yes Sodom was already judged and the fact that the men didnt take Lots daughters signifies that they didnt want women. Also some of what Sodom was judged for was being gay and that it is a abomination to God.Although these paragraphs do not mention Sodom they do say what God thinks is a abomination and it followed the path that they and you laid down for Sodom. So it gives us a picture of how evil goes and it follows the descriptions of Sodom.
    Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
    Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
    Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
    Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
    Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
    Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
    Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
    Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
    Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
    About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.
    This was from Josephus so you don't even have to interpret the Bible I have made it easy for you there is no guessing thank you for showing us how the twisting of the Bible is done. When Jesus was up on the mountain and the devil tempted Him with the three questions Im sure if you didn't know the word of God they would sound good too. But when you know the word you dont twist it and if you do you really have to question if that person is really a Christian and of their very Salvation. I will post on the rest thank you for this opertunity to explaiin the Bible to those that may have never heard these things before.

    July 12, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • midwest rail

      To recap – you object when, in your opinion, others twist what the bible says. But you have no problem twisting decades-old, oft debunked junk science into " proof " that there is an evil secret agenda driven by thousands of health professionals, distinguished mental health physicians, and the gay community at large. Gotcha. Thanks for playing.

      July 12, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures."

      Yo moron, they were worshiping a pagan god using sex. Duh! It has NOTHING to do with a loving respectful gay couple. Keep proving to the world you have really bad reading comprehension and are only twisting the scriptures to fit your deep prejudice toward this minority group.

      July 12, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • Bob

      I would be happy for you to point out were I said something wrong. Studies we can find them on each side, the definition as we both know is true, why gays came off the DSM. The ties the gay agenda have with the socialist party fact. The motives and plans the agenda has is clearly spoken so what did you not agree with???

      July 12, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Bob...you are exceptionally delusional today...

      July 12, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
    • Bob

      So yeah you looser what do you say about all the other examples????

      July 12, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "How do you explain the fact that they would not take lots daughters to mean that they were passing by women in favor of men that sure sounds gay to me."

      Yo moron they use that same tactic today straight men rape other men to show their dominance it has nothing to do with the loving respectful long term relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. What a prejudice idiot.

      July 12, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Studies we can find them on each side, the definition as we both know is true, "

      No you can't because anything you have posted has been proven to be bogus or outdated information.The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      July 16, 2012 at 10:42 am |
  10. Elaine

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted rape of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterosexuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were homosexuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and rape, mainly by heterosexuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same sex, and homosexuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against homosexuality in general is like comparing rape to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions homosexuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – sexual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a sexual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterosexual practicing homosexual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since sex with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the sexual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to homosexuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray homosexuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral homosexuals, just as there are immoral heterosexuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our sexuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterosexual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned homosexuality. I believe that was because homosexuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of homosexuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.
    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16
    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

    July 12, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Bob

      This post by Elaine are total lies it is deceptive and misleading. some of the passages omit certain words not in agreement with the agenda others are not listed that again would explain the truth and she sounds like she is a authority but it is nothing more than propaganda and a either mislead Christian which I doubt or another example of subterfuge

      July 13, 2012 at 6:49 am |
    • YeahRight

      Actually Bob has been proven the liar over and over again on this blog.

      July 13, 2012 at 10:37 am |
  11. Janet

    "What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than accepting the truth they try to distort it."

    The Biblical condemnation of homosexuality is based on human ignorance, suspicion of those who are different, and an overwhelming concern for ensuring the survival of the people. Since the Bible regards homosexuality as a capital crime, it clearly assumes that homosexuality is a matter of free choice, a deliberate rebellion against God. We have learned from modern science that people do not choose to be gay or straight; hence it is neither logical nor moral to condemn those whose nature it is to be gay or lesbian.

    July 12, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • 1927henritta

      No! Sir its God word

      July 12, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      But God was created by men, and so was your bible, and all religions....
      No where in the bible does God say anything...there are many places where MEN say god said, but no actual entries from God.

      July 12, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • jwt

      And a particular version of a god's word means nothing at all unless you believe in that particular version of that god.

      July 12, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
  12. YeahRight

    "Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth?"

    That's why you've been quoting bogus science and outdated material on this subject. You're the one trying to distort the truth about gays. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 12, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  13. PAUL

    Maybe They Should Favor This Logic?

    July 12, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  14. Erik

    "You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice."

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

    July 12, 2012 at 10:29 am |
  15. John

    "What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it"

    It's not proven. Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex

    July 12, 2012 at 10:28 am |
  16. Bob

    What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Proven? in your mind only Bob
      The bible IS distorted, edited and misinterpretted and was created by ignorant men Bob.
      I'm sure you do things that "normal" people would have a problem with Bob
      You are obsessed with gay people Bob. You probably are one Bob

      July 12, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The only one 'distorting' anything is you, Bob. You have repeatedly lied, presented spurious research, ignored facts.

      Your insistence that "god says" something is no more proof of anything than is any opinion. You aren't a theologian. You're barely even literate. You're nothing more than an ignorant zealot, whose bigoted views are antiquated and idiotic.

      Get another hobby. Your blathering isn't going to change anyone's mind about anything. The world will go on without your help and probably be better off.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:57 am |
    • YeahRight

      What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it. -LIE

      I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. -LIE you’re the one that won’t accept the truth of the hundreds of thousands of experts on this subject.

      Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? -LIE you’re the one that is trying to distort the truth of the hundreds of thousands of experts on this subject.

      You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice. -LIE because being gay isn’t a choice.

      July 12, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Hi Bob,

      "What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it."

      I haven't seen this proven anywhere. What I have seen is scholars who have spent decades of their lives reading and researching the bible unable to agree on whether or not ho.mo.se.xuality, as we know and understand it today, is condemned in the bible. If the most knowledgeable people on a subject can not agree, how then are the rest of us to make an informed opinion one way or the other?

      " I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice."

      Perhaps you need a mirror to evaluate yourself, Bob. You do seem to be the one harping on the subject to the exclusion of all others.

      July 12, 2012 at 10:38 am |
  17. Bob

    What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than accepting the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

    July 12, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, another good post of yours. I'm seeing from their writings that non-believers live a lie. That's why they hate Jesus' truth, never to know that Jesus will change their lives so they can be the best that He wants us to be. I believe they are afraid of change. Satisfied, that where they are in their minds today is just fine, and, it's others that need to change, not them. Most everyone knows, you can't change another, only Jesus can and will do that if they seek His truth.

      Peace.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:54 am |
    • JWT

      rotflmao @ both

      July 12, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your way is not the only way, HS. You aren't an authority.

      July 12, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • YeahRight

      What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than accepting the truth they try to distort it. -LIE

      I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. -LIE you’re the one that won’t accept the truth of the hundreds of thousands of experts on this subject.

      Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? -LIE you’re the one that is trying to distort the truth of the hundreds of thousands of experts on this subject.

      You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice. -LIE because being gay isn’t a choice.

      July 12, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • HeavenSent

      You atheists are typical sinners, refusing to do as Jesus asks all of us to do. Then, you want to read what you want Him to say instead of reading what He did say.

      Laugh all you want. You can't change His judgment of your thoughts, words, actions. I don't have to know your sin, just reading what you write, I know you are on the wide path to destruction, never to find the narrow gate to salvation.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:26 am |
    • JWT

      For those that care I expect their best path is to do the opposite of anythign you say HS. I can;t figure out if you are just a troll or a demented believer. Your rantings get weirder by the day.

      July 16, 2012 at 5:56 am |
  18. augustghost

    what if we found out Jesus was gay? Then what?

    July 12, 2012 at 5:22 am |
    • jwt

      Then Ii'd have a good chuckle.

      July 12, 2012 at 7:00 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Then you sobbered up augustghost. Then what.? His truth stands for eternity.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:28 am |
  19. Matthew

    This one goes out to all you fundamentalist Christians out there. Selah! I may be too narrow addressing this to just the fundamentalists. Many traditional Christians also fit the bill. Really, it’s anyone who believes that homosexuality is a sin, and that somehow God, infinite and eternal creator and sustainer of the very Universe, is ‘against’ a tiny human behavior that harms no one. So, in other words, uneducated and ridiculous people everywhere.

    Officially, the majority of Christian churches say that homosexual behavior is a sin, thus proving that the theologians behind those churches don’t understand their own Bible. There are a whole bunch of goofball laws written down in the Old Testament that everyone ignores. Why is being bigoted toward homosexuals the one people latch onto?

    The various Christian brands go through the Old Testament, picking and choosing the parts they consider cool. No one accepts the whole thing. No one. I mean, when was the last time a cheating spouse was actually put to death in keeping with the commandments of the Bible?

    Using the Old Testament to determine if something is a sin is simply a matter of human and not godly opinion. It’s meaningless and certainly not ‘the word of God’. His teachings aren’t some basket of fruit for you to pick over. You either have to accept the old law in its entirety and start killing lots and lots of people or reject it in its entirety. Hand-picking the stuff you like is bogus, especially when you only pick the stuff that seems to legitimize your meanness to other people.

    So the Old Testament is out.

    Before we all start playing REM’s “Losing My Religion,” consider this denying someone the right to marry is not Christian, and certainly not American.

    The people who are opposed to gay marriage, and by extension., gayness itself have no excuse. They are bigots and bigots alone. They can’t use their special book to justify their hate, even according to the special book itself. They have no one to thank but themselves. They take the Lord’s name in vain and feel righteous about it

    Yes, they take the Lord’s name in vain. Most people believe incorrectly that this commandment is about cussing, but it’s not. It’s about using God for yourself, for your own vain (personal) ends. They hold the Bible in the air and use it like a bitch to bolster their own prejudices and bigotry and hate and that is vanity, all is vanity.

    The teachings of Christ are plain enough: love and forgiveness, tolerance and healing, acceptance and rebellion. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing more needed. Add what you will to it, it still won’t be from the Christ. It will come from your own (black?) heart.

    Jesus Christ is the origin of the word ‘Christian’. Perhaps we should pray about that a bit more.

    oday’s Christians tend to be followers, accepting of the notion that religion is just a box built by someone else into which they must stuff their spirit. They are naive and willingly line up like lemmings wherever told. They have a casual ignorance that tells them the Beast will come in the obvious guise of science or secularism or liberality. They cannot conceive of the Father of Lies actually lying to them.

    Sinclair Lewis said that when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the cross. When the Beast comes to the world, you can bet your sweet ass he will be thumping the Bible and preaching a hate disguised as love.

    July 11, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • Lorraine Voss

      Mathew, I have no problem with gays, because everyone on this earth is responsible for his, or her own righteousness, Ezekiel 14 vs. 14-21, but how are you able to dispel the old test, is beyond me, for the new test, should fulfill the old, when one read a book, they don't begin at the back of it do they?, therefore, the book is suppose to coincide, but it doesn't. And yes the rewriting of this book which began in 200 bce, from mainly by His enemies, in Psalm 83, and in Exodus 17 vs. 14-17, who has changed, and diminished, or added things in it that are not the truth. But, one can certainly know this, that YHWH, the Creator, the true name, not Lord, or God 'look it up' knows all, and allowed what the liars has done to this book to magnify Himself in His day of return, as He tells us in Isaiah 34 vs. 8 of the controversy of this whole thing, along with the profaning of His name in Ezekiel 36 vs. 22,23. This is confirmed with the distribution of this book that is in over 2500 languages, and has been sent all over the world for reading and teaching. An example of change is in the name of this book, its true name is the book of remembrance, taught by Malachi 3 vs. 16, through YHWH a guide to help us to remember YHWH, and all He has done. This is why in Deut. 4 vs.1,2, Moses tells the people to never change the word of YHWH within this guide, but we, or should I say the enemy did anyway, and as YHWH teaches, He changes not, in Malachi 3 vs.6. Not any of His law of life, none of His commandments, judgments, statues, and ordinances. And, taught in the book of Micah 7 this guide must be discerned. And, Selah! to all as well, and praise unto YHWH, and YHWH Bless, for His righteousness is near as stated in Isaiah 51 vs. 5.

      July 11, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • jwt

      Glad to hear you are voting in favour of gay marriage then.

      July 11, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • PAUL

      July 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Matthew STOP telling Jesus what you want Him to have said. Instead, listen to what He said. If you don't stop sinning, you're on the wide path to destruction. No eternity for you. No amount of changing His truth is going to change the path that you are on. Is a mere 60, 70, 80 to 100 years of life down on earth worth more than eternity? It's your choice with the free will that Jesus gave us. HINT, HINT ... He made everything for His pleasure, and, if you aren't pleasing to Him (by what He wrote in the Bible) by the time you die and go back to Him. He's wiping out all sin.

      July 16, 2012 at 1:35 am |
    • Observer

      Heaven Sent,

      So what were Jesus exact words about gays?

      Still stumped?

      July 16, 2012 at 1:38 am |
  20. YeahRight

    "If anyone is going to accept gays and gay marriage they are going to know the truth"

    They already know the REAL truth you're the liar. Gays are already allowed to get married and the courts are ruling in their favor. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 11, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.