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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Bob

    Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. Merry Christmas has been taken away how much more is everyone going to let these losers limit the majority and those who know the truth. Its not only about gays but about socialism about the very same people we see here wanting to change the very fabric of society and not giving a dam about anyone else. wake up start voicing your opinion. They are not afraid to get up and insult us but we cannot do the same. Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth.

    July 28, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • YeahRight

      Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage

      Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech -LIE, it’s people who are trying to fighting for the equal civil rights of gays. Let’s guess you would have said the same thing about African Americans and women too. What an idiot.

      as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. -LIE, Chicago has stated that they can’t discriminate against the gay community and they are NOT denying them a permit. Once again proving how uneducated you are. Duh!

      Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. -LIE you are allowed to get married and legally protect your familes, gays are not. It’s bigots like you who are spreading their uneducated prejudice lies that continue to fuel the hatred toward this group. YOU are the problem in our society, not the gays.

      The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. -when you are spreading lies about the gay community and blocking their civil rights people have the right to point that out to uneducated prejudice bigots like you.

      If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth. You realize you are doing the very thing the K K K tried to do in blocking the civil rights of African Americans, your hated and prejudice not based on any REAL facts or truth.

      July 28, 2012 at 10:55 am |
  2. Douglas

    There is hope and deliverance through the practice of GLBTQ celib@cy.
    The Bible provides no other alternatives.
    Be an ally for GLBTQ folks living
    outside condemnation through celib@te practices. Unmarried straights must not
    yield to the temptation of fornication either. They don't have a free pass on this one.
    Best, Douglas

    July 27, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Baloney.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
    • JWT

      if they do not follow your particular version of your religion then what you say means nothing to them – nor should it mean anything.

      July 28, 2012 at 7:39 am |
    • YeahRight

      "There is hope and deliverance through the practice of GLBTQ celib@cy.
      The Bible provides no other alternatives."

      This poster is just an uneducated prejudice bigot who doesn't understand the bible or the REAL facts about gays. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      July 28, 2012 at 10:47 am |
  3. Bob

    SHAWN IS ANOTHER LOOSER REPOST

    July 27, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • JWT

      If Shawn were tighter would that make you feel better about it bob ?

      July 27, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • ,

      "SHAWN IS ANOTHER LOOSER REPOST"

      You've done the same thing so that makes you one too.

      July 27, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Bob, are your bowels loose?

      July 27, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Are they looser than they were yesterday?

      Try Immodium, Bobby.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, and get an education, you friggin' idiot. "Bare" and "bear" don't mean the same thing, you moron. Why would anyone bother to pay any attention to your interpretation of a book you can't even read, Bob?

      July 27, 2012 at 11:17 pm |
    • Spoc

      Bob may make the odd mistake with his grammar – because he actually uses real words and has real points....unlike Tommy boy who just swears and calls names and insults.....

      July 27, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And I, unlike you, don't post under a slew of other names, troll.

      Bob is an idiot. So are you.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, and really? "Bob may make the odd mistake with grammar"? You're blind and dumb if you think Bob makes an odd mistake once in a while. His posts would and should embarrass a high school freshman. Bob is nearly illiterate and dumb as a box of hair.

      Someone that stupid couldn't interpret "Dick and Jane", much less the Bible.

      Go support the Special Olympics, Spoc. At least they're a worthy cause. Bob is an abomination.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • Jen

      Bob makes the occasional grammatical error?????? Actually, Bob has never put together a grammatically correct sentence in his entire life. And I do not listen to the advice of the uneducated.

      July 28, 2012 at 9:13 am |
    • spoc

      Maybe y'all have met Jen and Tommy. They are on that show "Swamp People"....they are alligator hunters. Can hardly understand a word they say......small town swamp language of their own ya know.....both are missing front teeth, so that affects the way they talk, but we can make out a few words anyway. Kinda mean folk....they don't get out much.....

      July 30, 2012 at 1:37 am |
    • Tex

      Wow Jen has known Bob his whole life and knows everything he has written! Jen you are remarkable...

      July 30, 2012 at 1:43 am |
    • Batman

      Bob is the only person who makes any sense on this blog consistantly. Tom Tom is jealous again. You know Tom Tom being this jealous of someone you have never met is dumber than 100,000 boxes of hair. Bob has made the most intelligent case for his opinions – you have done nothing but insult everyone and demand they answer your dumb questions.....Bob you are terrific

      July 30, 2012 at 1:49 am |
    • Peter

      "Bob is the only person who makes any sense on this blog consistantly."

      The fact that you can't spell explains why you support such an imbecile like Bob.

      July 30, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Jen

      Oh look, salt/ pepper/Whitney/spoc/tex/batman in back. I'm flattered that you have obviously been stalking the site waiting for me to post since I haven't been here in weeks. Do you check every night? You give yourself away every time by comparing me and Tom Tom ( you're the only person that does), and posting under a different handle every few minutes late at night (on a months old blog that is barely posted on). I'm flattered by your obsession with me.

      July 30, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • Jen

      'is' back. Good thing I have excellent written communication skills given that I apparently can't talk very well....

      July 30, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Spoc

      Look out everyone.....Jen is back and your spelling had better be right or all of your points are worthless and open to cruelty and insults. She might even sick her old man Tommy on you and that is an experience you don't want....so carry a dictionary and get it right!!! Jen does not do much else, nothin gets by her.....ahhhh!!!!

      July 30, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Jen

      Awww...salt/spoc.... looking for my posts every chance you get. I know you are jealous that I'm having my third beautiful child while your ovaries are as dry as old fruit...what can I say...god knows that making you someone's mother would be extremely cruel to any poor child.....

      July 30, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • spoc

      ummm...I don't have ovaries, I am a guy!!! What are you on....you are getting cuckooooo now

      July 30, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're not a guy, spoc, you're just Bob, using yet another name. Lame. Really sad.

      July 30, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • Spoc

      Well Tom Tom....wrong again,but you are much closer than poor Jen

      August 2, 2012 at 12:12 am |
  4. Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning homosexual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterosexual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that homosexual sex is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates homosexuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean homosexual sex generally, but only limiting homosexual sex in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce homosexual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal sex. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have sex with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have sex with another man in the temple;" and "don't have sex with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have sex with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born sexless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven homosexuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for homosexual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the sexes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against homosexual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid homosexual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists homosexuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "homosexual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prostitutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their sexual orientation, the fact remains that homosexuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept homosexuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Homosexuality is normal. The phrase 'para physin' appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, homosexuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

    July 27, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
  5. Lorraine

    People, there is also much that has to be discerned about the book of remembrance, the so called OT, and this NT, that I call the (Not True), book, for it does not fulfilled the OT book, it changes the laws of life, and is why we today have so much confusion of what is right, and of what is wrong, as prophesied in Isaiah 24:1-5, and YHWH says, He changes not in Malachi 3:6. He also teaches us in this book that He does nothing without His servants the prophets, in Amos 3:7, so that we are not consumed, (lied to).

    Therefore, as taught to us again in Micah 7, this book has to be discerned, and many of those laws were rewritten, and allowed by YHWH of the Hellenistic roman Jewish writers that began in 200bce, changing the word of YHWH, 'look it up'. YHWH gives His anointment on those who are wholeheartedly seeking Him, and then decipher what was written, of what is His word, and what is not His word.

    To know the true word of YHWH one can go to His Movement at www. YHWH Our Righteousness, prophesied in Jeremiah 23:1-8, the arm of YHWH to get the truth, or call 1-773-874-0325; this prophecy is fulfilled, and raised to the public since the bombing of Lebanon in 2006.

    Many of these priest went astray back then, away from YHWH, allowed by YHWH to magnify Himself to those who wholeheartedly seeks Him, and to those who shall know Him. They, the priest went astray making their own versions of these laws, and they took the divine name of YHWH out of this book 6800 times, and this was why the wrath, the sword prophesied in Jeremiah 25:13-38, was put upon the earth, disobeying the voice of YHWH. Yet, He has His hand still stretched out to us if we are wholeheartedly wanting to seek Him today, is how it is done now, as said in Isaiah 6:9,10.

    We have to truly, sincerely, want to seek YHWH, He is not accepting repents anymore, we have to come back wholeheartedly, prophesied in Jeremiah 15:6,7, and in Malachi 1:6-14, although these sacrifices are no longer done, the deceit of the lame sacrifices, but the deceit from the flocks, and the shepherds against the Creator of life YHWH, is still ongoing until this day.

    This is the suffering of life, but the mercy, and grace of YHWH is still with us for us to return to YHWH, and His law of life in Duet. 32:45-47, of the 10 commandments, the sabbath, and the Exodus 12 passover. And, the teachings, and guidance of the high priest, the Levis, taught to us in Malachi 2:1-10, of YHWHs ordinances, statues, and judgments, which must be given to the flocks wholeheartedly by these priest. This is not being done today, and every since 2000 years ago they went astray, until this day, and it, the law has not been fulfilled.

    YHWHs righteousness is near, as prophesied in Isaiah 51:5, it is but a little while now, as said by YHWH in Isaiah 10:25, it shall cease.

    July 27, 2012 at 11:57 am |
  6. JP

    Is homosexuality a sin?

    Self-indulgence is a sin. But the relationship of two people of the same sex may or may not be self-indulgent.

    Abusing the neighbor is a sin. But the exploration of relationships among homosexuals as they search for partners, evaluate their existing formative relationships, and relate to each other may or may not be abusive.

    Disobeying what God commands in the Bible is a sin. But, we have biblically-derived criteria for assessing and applying specific commands by reading them against larger themes.
    Turning your back on God is a sin. Homosexuals are often among those who have turned their back on the church, and may be sinning because they also rejected the God they found in church. The church needs to be in mission to homosexuals with the message of Jesus and who God really is.

    Yielding to your passions, even celebrating them is a sin. Homosexuals do include those who have done this. But it is not an inherent aspect of being gay.

    Since we see people who have dedicated themselves to God, and for whom their gay sexual life is integrated into that decision and we see that their sexuality does not draw them away from church we must conclude that being and living gay is not a behavior in and of itself that produces pain to the neighbor and leads one away from God.

    By the criteria the scripture sets for us for what is godly life, and by the reasoning scripture asks us to employ, homosexuality cannot be described as against God’s law.

    If this seems like a rather quiet sort of justification for homosexuality, then perhaps it is because the grand clichés of this debate have been shouted at us for too long. But look at the Bible: it's demands and vision cut across all categories, not staying on the surface but penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart, rejecting all forms of self-justification, all forms of attack on the "other" and all forms of escape from God's assessment of our behavior. How on earth could we have ever thought that a series of flat rules was all God wanted to tell us on morality? .

    July 27, 2012 at 11:42 am |
  7. Jeannine

    The Scriptures were written approximately 2000 or more years ago when there was no knowledge of constitutional homosexuality. The Scripture writers believed that all people were naturally heterosexual so that they viewed homosexuality activity as unnatural. Women today are pointing out that the inferiority of women expressed in the scriptures was a product of culture and the times in which the Bible was written; it should not be followed today, now that we are beginning to appreciate the natural and God-given equality of men and women.

    Similarly; as we know that homosexuality is just as natural and God-given as heterosexuality, we realize that the Biblical injunctions against homosexuality were conditioned by the attitudes and beliefs about this form of sexual expression which were held by people without benefit of centuries of scientific knowledge and understanding.

    It is unfair of us to expect or impose a twentieth century mentality and understanding about equality of genders; races and sexual orientations on the Biblical writers. We must be able to distinguish the eternal truths the Bible is meant to convey from the cultural forms and attitudes expressed there.

    July 27, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  8. Lorraine

    repost;;;Cindi, There is also much that has to be discerned about the book of remembrance, the so called OT, and this NT, that I call the (Not True), book, for it does not fulfilled the OT book, it changes the laws of life, as prophesied in Isaiah 24:1-5, and YHWH says He changes not in Malachi 3:6, and He also teaches us in this book that He does nothing without His servants the prophets, in Amos 3:7, so that we are not consumed, (lied to).

    Therefore, as taught to us again in Micah 7, this book has to be discerned, and many of those laws were rewritten by the Hellenistic roman Jewish writers that began in 200bce, changing the word of YHWH, 'look it up'. YHWH gives His anointment on those who are wholeheartedly seeking Him, and then decipher what was written, of what is His word, and what is not His word. To know the true word of YHWH one can go to His Movement at www. YHWH Our Righteousness, prophesied in Jeremiah 23:1-8, the arm of YHWH to get the truth, or call 1-773-874-0325, this prophecy is fulfilled, and raised to the public since the bombing of Lebanon in 2006. Many of these priest went astray back then, away from YHWH, making their own versions of these laws, and was why the wrath, the sword was put upon the earth, disobeying the voice of YHWH, but He has His hand still stretched out to us if we are wholeheartedly wanting to seek Him today, as said in Isaiah 6:9,10.

    We now have to truly want to seek YHWH, He is not accepting repents anymore, we have to come back wholeheartedly, prophesied in Jeremiah 15:6,7, and in Malachi 1:6-14, although these sacrifices are no longer done, the deceit of the lame sacrifices, but the deceit from the flocks, and the shepherds against the Creator of life YHWH, is still ongoing until this day. This is the suffering of life, but the mercy, and grace of YHWH is still with us.

    July 27, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • Lorraine

      The wrath, and sword, brought upon us is prophesied in Jeremiah 25:13-38, until we return, with our whole hearts, in Malachi 3:7. For the Creator's hand is still stretched out to us of His mercy, and grace, Exodus 33:11-17.

      July 27, 2012 at 10:48 am |
  9. Michael

    This one goes out to all you fundamentalist Christians out there. Selah! I may be too narrow addressing this to just the fundamentalists, many traditional Christians also fit the bill. Really, it’s anyone who believes that homosexuality is a sin, and that somehow God, infinite and eternal creator and sustainer of the very Universe, is ‘against’ a tiny human behavior that harms no one. So, in other words, uneducated and ridiculous people everywhere.

    Officially, the majority of Christian churches say that homosexual behavior is a sin, thus proving that the theologians behind those churches don’t understand their own Bible. There are a whole bunch of goofball laws written down in the Old Testament that everyone ignores. Why is being bigoted toward homosexuals the one people latch onto?

    The various Christian brands go through the Old Testament, picking and choosing the parts they consider cool. No one accepts the whole thing. No one. I mean, when was the last time a cheating spouse was actually put to death in keeping with the commandments of the Bible?

    Using the Old Testament to determine if something is a sin is simply a matter of human and not godly opinion. It’s meaningless and certainly not ‘the word of God’. His teachings aren’t some basket of fruit for you to pick over. You either have to accept the old law in its entirety and start killing lots and lots of people or reject it in its entirety. Hand-picking the stuff you like is bogus, especially when you only pick the stuff that seems to legitimize your meanness to other people.

    So the Old Testament is out.

    Before we all start playing REM’s “Losing My Religion,” consider this denying someone the right to marry is not Christian, and certainly not American.

    The people who are opposed to gay marriage, and by extension, gayness itself have no excuse. They are bigots and bigots alone. They can’t use their special book to justify their hate, even according to the special book itself. They have no one to thank but themselves. They take the Lord’s name in vain and feel righteous about it

    Yes, they take the Lord’s name in vain. Most people believe incorrectly that this commandment is about cussing, but it’s not. It’s about using God for yourself, for your own vain (personal) ends. They hold the Bible in the air and use it like a bitch to bolster their own prejudices and bigotry and hate and that is vanity, all is vanity.

    The teachings of Christ are plain enough: love and forgiveness, tolerance and healing, acceptance and rebellion. Nothing more, nothing less. Nothing more needed. Add what you will to it, it still won’t be from the Christ. It will come from your own (black?) heart.

    Jesus Christ is the origin of the word ‘Christian’. Perhaps we should pray about that a bit more.

    Today’s Christians tend to be followers, accepting of the notion that religion is just a box built by someone else into which they must stuff their spirit. They are naive and willingly line up like lemmings wherever told. They have a casual ignorance that tells them the Beast will come in the obvious guise of science or secularism or liberality. They cannot conceive of the Father of Lies actually lying to them.

    Sinclair Lewis said that when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the cross. When the Beast comes to the world, you can bet your sweet ass he will be thumping the Bible and preaching a hate disguised as love.

    July 26, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
  10. Bob

    Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
    Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

    July 26, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • YeahRight

      LMAO ~ this how well Bob doesn't know the bible. Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests.

      July 26, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
  11. Cindi

    LIKE YOU, I TAKE THE BIBLE SERIOUSLY! Many good people build their case against homosexuality almost entirely on the Bible. These folks value Scripture, and are serious about seeking its guidance in their lives. Unfortunately, many of them have never really studied what the Bible does and doesn’t say about homosexuality.

    We gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender Christians take the Bible seriously, too. Personally, I’ve spent more than 50 years reading, studying, memorizing, preaching, and teaching from the sacred texts. I earned my master’s and doctoral degrees at a conservative biblical seminary to better equip myself to “rightly divide the word of truth.” I learned Hebrew and Greek to gain a better understanding of the original words of the biblical texts. I studied the lives and times of the biblical authors to help me know what they were saying in their day so I could better apply it to my own.

    We must be open to new truth from Scripture.

    Even heroes of the Christian faith have changed their minds about the meaning of various biblical texts.

    It took a blinding light and a voice from heaven to help the apostle Paul change his mind about certain Hebrew texts. A sheet lowered from the sky filled with all kinds of animals helped the apostle Peter gain new insights into Jewish law.

    Jerry Falwell believed the Bible supported segregation in the church until a black shoeshine man asked him, “When will someone like me be allowed to become a member of your congregation?” Through those simple words, the Holy Spirit spoke new truth about the ancient biblical texts to the Rev. Falwell, and in obedience he ended segregation at Thomas Road Baptist Church.

    Even when we believe the Scriptures are “infallible” or “without error,” it’s terribly dangerous to think that our understanding of every biblical text is also without error. We are human. We are fallible. And we can misunderstand and misinterpret these ancient words — with tragic results.

    What if someone asked you, “Is there a chance you could be wrong about the way you’ve interpreted the biblical texts sometimes used to condemn homosexual orientation?” How would you respond? What does it say about you if you answer, “No, I could NOT be wrong”? I am asking you to re-examine these texts — carefully and prayerfully. Lives hang in the balance.

    If heroes of the Christian faith could change their minds about the meaning of certain biblical texts, shouldn’t we be prepared to reconsider our own interpretations of these ancient words when the Holy Spirit opens our minds and hearts to new truth? That’s why we study the Bible prayerfully, seeking the Spirit of Truth, God’s loving Spirit, to help us understand and apply these words to our lives.

    On the night he was betrayed, Jesus told his disciples he was going away from them for a while, but that the Father would send them a “Comforter,” an “Advocate,” the “Holy Spirit” who would “teach them all things.”

    I believe with all my heart that the Holy Spirit is still teaching us. When we reconsider the texts that are used by some people to condemn God’s gay children, we must fervently seek the Holy Spirit’s guidance, or we risk being misled by our own prejudices.

    The Bible is a book about God — not a book about human sexuality.

    The Bible is the story of God’s love for the world and the people of the world. It tells the history of God’s love at work rescuing, renewing, and empowering humankind. It was never intended to be a book about human sexuality. Certainly, you will agree.

    In fact, the Bible accepts sexual practices that we condemn and condemns sexual practices that we accept. Lots of them! Here are a few examples.

    DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
    If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.

    DEUTERONOMY 22:22
    If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.

    MARK 10:1-12
    Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.

    LEVITICUS 18:19
    The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.

    MARK 12:18-27
    If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

    DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
    If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.

    I’m certain you don’t agree with these teachings from the Bible about sex. And you shouldn’t. The list goes on: The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king’s having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one’s parents nude.

    Over the centuries the Holy Spirit has taught us that certain Bible verses should not be understood as God’s law for all time periods. Some verses are specific to the culture and time they were written, and are no longer viewed as appropriate, wise, or just.

    Often, the Holy Spirit uses science to teach us why those ancient words no longer apply to our modern times. During the last three decades, for example, organizations representing 1.5 million U.S. health professionals (doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, and educators) have stated definitively that homosexual orientation is as natural as heterosexual orientation, that sexual orientation is determined by a combination of yet unknown pre- and post-natal influences, and that it is dangerous and inappropriate to tell a homosexual that he or she could or should attempt to change his or her sexual orientation.

    While there are some people now living in heterosexual marriages who once perceived themselves to be gay, there are millions of gay and lesbian persons who have accepted their sexual orientation as a gift from God and live productive and deeply spiritual lives. The evidence from science and from the personal experience of gay and lesbian Christians demands that we at least consider whether the passages cited to condemn homosexual behavior should be reconsidered, just as other Bible verses that speak of certain sexual practices are no longer understood as God’s law for us in this day.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • Spoc

      Cindi you are deceived and do not know scripture. You guys can spin this till the cows come home and God will not change His mind about His original purposes for mankind. You have chosen a faith that does not agree with your lifestyle choice......very sad

      July 26, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Cindi you are deceived and do not know scripture. You guys can spin this till the cows come home and God will not change His mind about His original purposes for mankind. You have chosen a faith that does not agree with your lifestyle choice...."

      You just proved you have really poor reading comprehension skills so obviously you can't comprehend the bible either. Duh! She even stated people have changed the interpretation of the scriptures. So are you going to stone your child to death now when they talk about to you? LMAO What an idiot.

      July 26, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • Bob

      Mar 10:2 Some Pharisees came up to Jesus, testing Him, and began to question Him whether it was lawful for a man to divorce a wife.
      Mar 10:3 And He answered and said to them, "What did Moses command you?"
      Mar 10:4 They said, "Moses permitted a man TO WRITE A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY."
      Mar 10:5 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
      Mar 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
      Mar 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
      Mar 10:8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
      Mar 10:9 "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

      Mar 12:13 Then they *sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Him in order to trap Him in a statement.
      Mar 12:24 Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are mistaken, that you do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God?
      You have flaws in your understanding in part from being gay that is the reason no one in sin should teach or be a minister.

      July 26, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • Bob

      Dont listen to YEAH he is only there to insight and has no understanding, he could care less about you or the Bible or gays for that matter and dont worry about Cindys post either it is just a repost

      July 26, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Dont listen to YEAH he is only there to insight and has no understanding, he could care less about you or the Bible or gays for that matter" - LIE, which again proves Bob doesn't understand even the basic teachings of the Bible.

      Oh, by the way, i am the one fighting for gay civil rights, not Bob. LOL!

      "and dont worry about Cindys post either it is just a repost" - LIE, Bob please provide the page number the original first post is since I haven't see this person's post before. LOL! You can't even follow the basic teachings of your Bible – LIAR! LOL!

      July 26, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "You have flaws in your understanding in part from being gay that is the reason no one in sin should teach or be a minister"

      Another example of Bob's lack of comprehension of the bible. LOL! Keep proving to the world you're just a prejudice bigot who doesn't have a clue about this subject or the Bible. This is a great example of the Christian communities unfounded prejudice and bigotry towards this minority group. Duh!

      July 26, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • Bob

      Yeah
      You know what makes you a real looser is that in your supposed fight for gay rights you have to do it by destroying what the Bible says. You cant fight in real ways and come to a true understanding of what you are doing and talking about but choose to distort the Bible and to lie and bend the words and meanings and side with anyone that would do the same.You have no comprehension of what the Bile says, because you don't read it you just arbitrarily decided that it is against gays or atheists so you will set out to destroy it and other peoples faith in any method possible. If you will do this to a book that is respected by many people misquote any scripture and quote people who do the same in a attempt to exploit their mistakes then you are not to be trusted. The Type of personality that wants to win no matter what without regard to truth and the caring of those that know the truth and believe the truth, possibly hurting new believers. This is what most have come to expect from the gays and the groups that support them. In actuality its not most of the gays but people like you who use their supposed inequality to support their own personal agenda a winner takes all damned to the rest type of mentality. That makes you a looser because you don't even profess to be gay. I don't know if you are or aren't or maybe just another atheist or with a axe to grind I don't think you are even a US citizen to do this perverted thing. What you and others are doing is wrong on so many levels that you would have to question your very sanity that you think its just fun and games to destroy such revered truth and support those that do the same. Many win by true methods by not lying and distorting things but let the truth win out you are not that person. You hide behind lies told by many others and support them fully and propagate your own or repost lies told by people in deceptions and don't understand basic truth like a animal that does things on instinct just destroying for the sake of it in hopes to destroy enough that they can change things to be more suited to themselves.

      July 27, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • JWT

      The bible may be truth to you bobby but it is not any kind of truth to many people. Thus it's writings do not apply. Nor do your personal opinions about what is in the bible apply.

      July 27, 2012 at 7:48 am |
    • Bob

      JWT
      Fine no one said you had to believe just be real people and say it doesn't apply, but you and others dont have the right to change what the Bible says because you dont like it or it doesn't agree with you. Be a real person with integrity if you want to move the agenda ahead do it with any supporting truth you can find dont lie, manipulate and distort your way ahead. Some people are stupid enough to believe the lies you put out, anyone pushing any agenda should want to do so in truth not be like the men that lead this nations and lie and then do what they want.

      July 27, 2012 at 8:51 am |
    • JWT

      I personally do not care what the bible says about anything. But I do know that there are many different interpretations. People are overstepping their bounds when they use their religion to deny gay rights.

      July 27, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Lorraine

      Cindi, There is also much that has to be discerned about the book of remembrance, the so called OT, and this NT, that I call the (Not True), book, for it does not fulfilled the OT book, it changes the laws of life, as prophesied in Isaiah 24:1-5, and YHWH says He changes not in Malachi 3:6, and He also teaches us in this book that He does nothing without His servants the prophets, in Amos 3:7, so that we are not consumed, (lied to).

      Therefore, as taught to us again in Micah 7, this book has to be discerned, and many of those laws were rewritten by the Hellenistic roman Jewish writers that began in 200bce, changing the word of YHWH, 'look it up'. YHWH gives His anointment on those who wholeheartedly seeking Him, can decipher what was written, of what is His word, and what is not His word. To know the true word of YHWH one can go to His Movement www. YHWH Our Righteousness, prophesied in Jeremiah 23:1-8, the arm of YHWH to get the truth, or call 1-773-874-0325, prophecy fulfilled, and raised to the public since the bombing of Lebanon in 2006. Many of these priest went astray, away from YHWH, making their own versions of these laws, and was why the wrath, the sword was put upon the earth, disobeying the voice of YHWH, but He has His hand still stretched out to us if we are wholeheartedly wanting to seek Him today, as said in Isaiah 6:9,10.

      We now have to truly want to seek YHWH, He is not accepting repents anymore, we have to come back wholeheartedly, prophesied in Jeremiah 15:6,7, and in Malachi 1:6-14, although these are no longer done, the deceit of the lame sacrifices, and the deceit from the flocks, and the shepherds against the Creator of life YHWH, until this day. This is the suffering of life, but the mercy, and grace of YHWH is still with us.

      July 27, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Bob

      JWT
      I will explain something to you that you also may not care about but it will be one of the reasons people dont want gay marriage. Our leaders lie all the time one small lie may not amount to much but many on many lies do and that is one thing that got us in the situation we are now. Well God has blessings for those people that do things His way. I am one of those people who do believe this, History has basically bared this out also. So if you dont do the things that God says to do you dont receive the blessings ,most such as yourself see this and say God is unjust because He is making all the bad things in the world and the US happen, which is incorrect. You have a choice to believe or not just as I do that is will,, God will not override your will and wants to bless you but just like a father that you disobeyed it may not always work out the way that you thought it would but your father knew how it would work out. God says I have set before you life and death and then tells us to choose life, we are so stupid to make the wrong choice so He has to tell us what to choose. He also gave us free will and dominion of this world. Gay marriage like abortion and so many other things are wrong according to the Bible. It will never be right and I want the blessings of God on each one of us and this nation. We are allowing so many wrong things, the list is to long to go into and I know things were better in the past. It is since all this liberty and everyone is ok that it has basically become a sewer of just one piece of sh it on top of another. I dont like many of the things I see today not only because I know that they are wrong but I know where they lead. I have not seen improvements in this country I have seen good called bad and bad called good and leading to the path of destruction. Even if you dont believe we who do know that it is for the good of the country and all people that we do and want those blessings on everyone here. America could still be the greatest country in the world but it will not happen by men or any socialist regime, it will be a act of God. We have seen the choices men have made and they have been bad in most cases. As witnessed the founders of this country said our laws are holy inadequate for a non moralistic society and we see that today. So you may not agree but what I have told you is truth and you may or may not understand it.

      July 27, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • YeahRight

      You know what makes you a real looser is that in your supposed fight for gay rights you have to do it by destroying what the Bible says. -LIE

      You cant fight in real ways and come to a true understanding of what you are doing and talking about but choose to distort the Bible and to lie and bend the words and meanings and side with anyone that would do the same. -LIE, Actually since you view it that way it’s actually yourself that is doing that, how’s that log in your eye doing…getting bigger. LOL!

      You have no comprehension of what the Bile says, because you don't read it you just arbitrarily decided that it is against gays or atheists so you will set out to destroy it and other peoples faith in any method possible. -LIE – you’re the one reading into the scriptures what is not there, again it’s talking about rape, worshiping a pagan god using sex and male prostitution.

      If you will do this to a book that is respected by many people misquote any scripture and quote people who do the same in a attempt to exploit their mistakes then you are not to be trusted. -LIE, it’s not respected by many people, on 33% of people on this planet are Christian, so again, you’re lying.

      The Type of personality that wants to win no matter what without regard to truth and the caring of those that know the truth and believe the truth, possibly hurting new believers. -LIE, you are actually talking about yourself, you’re the one that continues to fuel this debate over and over again with your uneducated prejudice opinions about the gay community. Stop trying to distort the REAL truth to fit your prejudice and hate towards gays, especially since hundreds of thousands of experts have proven you WRONG!

      This is what most have come to expect from the gays and the groups that support them. -LIE, it’s your uneducated prejudice opinions that forces people to point this out to the world, that it’s you who is lying and don’t comprehend the real facts about the gay community.

      In actuality its not most of the gays but people like you who use their supposed inequality to support their own personal agenda a winner takes all damned to the rest type of mentality. -LIE, this is about civil rights and the U S constitution, the fact you can’t comprehend that further proves how unjustified and uneducated you are about the gay community. You again are talking about yourself, which is why you see it that way.

      That makes you a looser because you don't even profess to be gay. -LIE, because I am not something you can’t comprehend, 50% of Americans support gay marriage, do you actually think they are all gay too, Duh!

      I don't know if you are or aren't or maybe just another atheist or with a axe to grind I don't think you are even a US citizen to do this perverted thing. -LIE This agin is just you trying to spew your uneducated prejudice opinions to try and justify your unfounded hate toward the gay community. You are a classic example of what is wrong with Christians, you lie to try and justify your prejudice which means you can’t even follow one of the basic bible commandments.

      What you and others are doing is wrong on so many levels that you would have to question your very sanity that you think its just fun and games to destroy such revered truth and support those that do the same. -LIE Your ego can’t handle the all the major organizations around the world have proven that being gay is not a choice, it’s not a mental illness and it can’t be voluntarily changed. Your ego also can’t handle that 1000’s of churches and clergy have proven that your prejudice view point of the scriptures shows you don’t have basic reading comprehension skills.

      Many win by true methods by not lying and distorting things but let the truth win out you are not that person. -LIE Again, you’re talking about yourself since you can’t come up with anything that has disproved what hundreds of thousands of experts have stated about the gay community. You’re the one who can’t handle the REAL truth because your ego is too far gone in your unfounded prejudice toward the gay community.

      You hide behind lies told by many others and support them fully and propagate your own or repost lies told by people in deceptions and don't understand basic truth like a animal that does things on instinct just destroying for the sake of it in hopes to destroy enough that they can change things to be more suited to themselves. -LIE – I have been quoting the actual studies that have been supported by decades of research by hundreds of thousands of experts. You’re the one that has been quoting people that have been proven to have bogus research and lied about it. Duh!

      July 27, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • JWT

      To cut it short bob you want all men to live by your view of god. Not going to happen. Your views are for you not for others. You do not have the right to decide what is right and wrong – morally for other people.

      And noone like me ever believes that god has anything to do with anything.

      July 27, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • YeahRight

      Our leaders lie all the time one small lie may not amount to much but many on many lies do and that is one thing that got us in the situation we are now. -LIE the experts used decades of research and studies to prove that being gay isn’t a choice, it’s not a mental illness and it can’t be voluntarily changed, which is why the laws in this country are changing.

      I am one of those people who do believe this, History has basically bared this out also. -LIE, religious people have killed more people on this planet than anything else.

      Gay marriage like abortion and so many other things are wrong according to the Bible. -LIE, you are reading your prejudice view point into the scriptures and there are 1000’s of churches and clergy that have shown that nowhere in the bible did your god discuss sexual orientation as we know and understand it today.

      It will never be right and I want the blessings of God on each one of us and this nation. -LIE hundreds of thousands of experts have proven that being gay is normal, it’s not a choice, it’s not a mental illness, and it can’t be voluntarily changed.

      We are allowing so many wrong things, the list is to long to go into and I know things were better in the past. -LIE Christians came to America, killed the Native Americans, enslaved African Americans and treated women as property, it’s only been recently that this country actually became more moral by giving African Americans and women their civil rights. Again your prejudice is clouding your view point of America.

      It is since all this liberty and everyone is ok that it has basically become a sewer of just one piece of sh it on top of another. -LIE That’s your ego trying to justify your uneducated prejudice opinions.

      I dont like many of the things I see today not only because I know that they are wrong but I know where they lead. -LIE Gay marriage has been legal in several states and marriage has NOT deteriorated in those states. Obviously you have done your homework on this subject.

      I have not seen improvements in this country I have seen good called bad and bad called good and leading to the path of destruction. -LIE, you are one really negative person you should seek some professional help.

      Even if you dont believe we who do know that it is for the good of the country and all people that we do and want those blessings on everyone here. -LIE this again is about civil rights, I am sure prejudice people like you probably stated this very lie while trying to block the civil rights of African Americans and women.

      America could still be the greatest country in the world but it will not happen by men or any socialist regime, it will be a act of God. -LIE it’s men and women that have built this country into what it is today, not your god.

      We have seen the choices men have made and they have been bad in most cases. -LIE, again your negativity is disgusting, there are millions of good honest people in the country that have made this country great, you are only spewing this nonsense in an attempt to justify your uneducated prejudice opinions.

      So you may not agree but what I have told you is truth and you may or may not understand it. It's been proven over and over again you don’t even comprehend the real truth about the gay community so you’re opinion holds no value.

      July 27, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • Bob

      YEAH THAT JUST CONFIRMS IT YOU ARE A TOTAL WASTE YOU HAVE DEFLECTED EVERY QUESTION NOT ANSWERED ONE AND JUSTIFIED BAD BEHAVIOR LOOSER.

      July 27, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Bob

      JWT
      Then if I dont have the right to make laws that affect you then you surely dont have the right to make laws that affect me hence no gay marriage thanks.

      July 27, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "YEAH THAT JUST CONFIRMS IT YOU ARE A TOTAL WASTE YOU HAVE DEFLECTED EVERY QUESTION NOT ANSWERED ONE AND JUSTIFIED BAD BEHAVIOR LOOSER."

      LOL! No, it's you who has tried to deflect the REAL truth. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      LMAO!

      July 27, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Then if I dont have the right to make laws that affect you then you surely dont have the right to make laws that affect me hence no gay marriage thanks."

      The courts have proven that people like you are WRONG since this about civil rights. LOL!

      July 27, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • JWT

      Unless you are a gay person wanting to get married bob, gay marriage in no way affects you.

      Well actually it does financially in a small way due to a tiny increase in government and corporate benefits.

      No allowing gay marriage affects a number of people a very great deal. A simple issue of civil rights.

      July 27, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
  12. Bob

    Lev 20:26 'Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:38 pm |
    • YeahRight

      LMAO – this how well Bob doesn't know the bible. Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests.

      July 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
  13. Bob

    Lev 20:13 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
    • YeahRight

      LMAO – this how well Bob doesn't know the bible. Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests. .

      July 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
  14. Bob

    Lev 18:12 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's blood relative.
    Lev 18:13 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's blood relative.
    Lev 18:14 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother; you shall not approach his wife, she is your aunt.
    Lev 18:15 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
    Lev 18:16 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
    Lev 18:17 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness.
    Lev 18:18 'You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness.
    Lev 18:19 'Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity.
    Lev 18:20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
    Lev 18:21 'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD.
    Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Lev 18:23 'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • YeahRight

      LMAO - this how well Bob doesn't know the bible. Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests.

      July 26, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
  15. Bob

    1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
    1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
    1Jn 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
    1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
    1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • YeahRight

      Everyone knows the story about Jesus and the woman about to be stoned by the mob. This account is only found in John 7:53-8:12. The mob asked Jesus whether they should stone the woman (the punishment required by the Old Testament) or show her mercy. Jesus doesn’t fall for this trap. Jesus allegedly states, let the one who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her. The crowd dissipates out of shame. That story was not originally in the Gospel of John or in any of the Gospels. It was added by later scribes. The story is not found in the oldest and best manuscripts of the Gospel of John. Nor does its writing style comport with the rest of John. Most serious textual critics state that this story should not be considered part of the Bible.

      LMAO!

      July 26, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
  16. James

    "God who created the heavens and the universe didn't know relationships and didn't understand gays"

    The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.

    July 26, 2012 at 1:16 pm |
  17. John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. Homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. Sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex .

    July 26, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
  18. YeahRight

    "God who created the heavens and the universe didn't know relationships and didn't understand gays"

    No moron, the men who wrote the bible didn't since sexuality wasn't studied till the 19th century. LOL! Keep showing how clueless you are. Duh! Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    July 26, 2012 at 1:12 pm |
  19. Gayla

    God is Love
    People love and others condemn them
    But, God is Love.
    I heard a guy on the radio on my way to the store-what about Mormons? They, too, have a right to love whomever they want. I think anyone of age is allowed by God to love whomever. even multiple whoever's!
    notice "of age"! Children should never be made to stumble !

    July 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
  20. Bob

    Ok so God who created the heavens and the universe didn't know relationships and didn't understand gays

    July 26, 2012 at 11:37 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.