home
RSS
My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • My Take • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. CantMYOB

    Gay, straight, frog, dolphin.,..why cant we just mind our business and let our fellow humans live with and marry who they wish. since when did i become my brother or sisters keeper? How is it when judgement time comes if im christian or dust comes if im an atheist, that I am somehow responsible for the actions of my neighbor, frankly i dont want it, so let them be

    May 19, 2012 at 5:40 am |
    • JW

      God tells Christians that if they don't warn the wicked about His coming judgment on them for their sins, their blood will be upon the Christians heads. Plus Christians don't want people to suffer forever so they try to warn them.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:42 am |
    • danielwalldammit

      JW ought to mind his own wickedness.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Jadugara

      Sorry JW,..."God" doesn't tell anyone a damn thing... You are dellusional and apparently sick... Please seek help...

      May 19, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @JW – so, if you would've kept your big mouth shut, I would have been uninformed, and found innocent on judgment day. Now that I know your truth, I'm going to burn forever. So it's your fault I'm going to hell !! Thanks JW!!!

      May 20, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • max3333344445555

      edwardo, the lake of fire and burning in hell is a myth. the only beings ever cast into the lake of fire by god were the angels that supported lucifer. dante and locke came up with the humans buring in the lake of fire from their own imagination.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  2. BralenX

    God created gays to bring beauty to this world. Gays are God's gifts to mankind.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:33 am |
    • JW

      God calls gays to stop practicing gay s.e.x. so that they will indeed be beautiful to others.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:57 am |
    • edwardo

      @JW – perhaps if people like you would stop peeping through our key holes (with your mind's eye), then perhaps you would stop seeing the "ugly" you believe gay people to project. I know what heteros do in their bedrooms, and I assure you, I do not spend quality time thinking about it.

      May 19, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Martin

      We all know the beauty they brought to Sodom and Gommorah.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • EndTheHate

      Martin

      “This is the sin of Sodom; she and her suburbs had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not help or encourage the poor and needy. They were arrogant and this was abominable in God’s eyes.”
      Ezekiel 16:48-49

      May 20, 2012 at 1:22 am |
    • Chad

      EndTheHate I believe Martin was being sarcastic.

      May 22, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • brown

      bralenx, get a clue!

      May 23, 2012 at 11:42 am |
  3. Jay

    A persons faith can be a thing that lets them love and accept others or it can be an excuse to hate with some claim of justification. Some people like to hate and faith is their excuse. Excuse or not they would hate anyone different than them either way. But, is is nice to be able to say I only hate and persecute you because Jesus demands it of me. Funny that I can't find that demand in the Bible but maybe it didn't make the final print.
    I have met Christians who would happily give a stranger the shirt off their back without judging them or caring who they are or what they believe. They do it because they think their savior told them to meet the world with love and kindness. I have also met Christians who judge and condemn and hate. I am not sure if Christ would approve but they are. Faith can be wonderful and terrible.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:31 am |
    • JW

      The judging, condemning and hating are wrong. But strong warnings are actually showing love. If people eyes would be opened to actually see the consequences of their choices in life as far as God is concerned, surely they would be more apt to
      respect what He is saying in the Bible. God is extremely loving, but is also just. He requires repentance, the stoppage of sinning as a regular practice, and faith in Christ for eternal salvation. His punishment of unrepentance is severe.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:50 am |
    • Jen

      Jay, you sound a very intelligent person. It makes me happy to know there are people in the world like you.

      All these people who quote parts of the Bible didn't seem to read the other parts. The parts where Christ said to LOVE ONE ANOTHER. The Bible also says that if you brush up against a woman who is menstruating, you are unclean. It also says you can't eat shellfish.

      I really like your post. You are closer to what Christ was saying than anybody on here.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:59 am |
    • edwardo

      Jen & JW – YOu're both a couple of nutjobs.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
  4. BralenX

    Being gay is perfectly natural. It's wholesome and pure. Who says that all se.x is for procreating? Is all hetero se.x procreative? NOOO! And THAT is unnatural.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:24 am |
    • captain america

      the as.s hole is for crapping out of not stuffing junk in

      here's your sign

      May 19, 2012 at 5:28 am |
    • BralenX

      Umm... No it's not. Grow up little boy. Butt se xx is the best se xx on Earth anything else pales in comaprison.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:30 am |
    • Donaize

      God said so – He created a woman so man would not be alone (in Genesis) – they were to marry and multiply the earth –

      We are to love the sinner but not embrace the sin – any sinner, any sin – in God's eyes all sin is sin – He doesn't distinguish He just expects true and full repentance for He wants all to enter His Kingdom -

      May 19, 2012 at 7:47 am |
    • edwardo

      @Donaize – He didn't know man would be lonely? So he had to creae a woman to fix the psychological issue he created in the first place?

      May 19, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Citizen Patriot

      Lol...wholesome & pure? How dilusional!!

      May 20, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • lilbuddah

      @captain america, you're mouth is meant for chewing, not shoving a tongue in it.

      May 21, 2012 at 2:10 am |
  5. Jay

    What does god have to say about people born with both male and female reproductive parts. Did they have a choice? An abomination to the lord?

    May 19, 2012 at 5:23 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      This is a result of the sins of the parents.

      Exodus 20:5

      You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

      May 19, 2012 at 5:26 am |
    • Fran

      sure, sounds fair to me. I suppose lack of brain power and a healthy dose of hate due to being a scared little baby of anything you don't understand is handed down through generations as well. Your mother should have done the world a favor and aborted you.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:30 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      My mother is a moral Christian. Not a baby murdering liberal.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:35 am |
    • Crom

      Your mother is a failure to the human race, Mark. Anyone raising a racist is a failure. You should both be removed from society.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:42 am |
    • Samson

      Interesting, I didnt know i was getting a bj in the back alley for fifty cents from a moral christian.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:44 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Since when am I a racist?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:44 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      Now, I have to wonder debate is it really worth it to continue to debate here. I wake up at noon and find someone posting under my name. I would not have known unless some one on twenty pages out had thanked me for my statements.

      Sorry guys, good or bad what this person wrote. It was not me. I am normally asleep between 5am and 11am each day. My past post show it.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:41 pm |
    • danielwalldammit

      Shhhhhh, God doesn't talk about them, so neither should we. ...maybe they will just go away.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Son of the Most high

      Mark that is under the old covenant, but through Christ we have Jesus's covenant on the cross. EVERY person is a gift form God. How they choose to live their lives is their choice. The blood of Christ paid for the sins of all. No need to punish the future generations because of what the previous generations did. Jesus redeemed us on the cross! CAN I GET A AMEN!?

      May 20, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Son of the Most high,

      What kind of monster-god have you all dreamed up...? One whose hurt feelings (because his creatures 'sinned') are appeased by a human blood sacrifice?! Get outta here...

      Besides that, as bad as it's told in the legend, Jesus just had real nasty pain for a few hours and knew he wouldn't *really* be dead anyway. Millions and millions of people have suffered worse.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:35 am |
  6. captain america

    send all que.ers all up canada where they belong

    here's your sign

    May 19, 2012 at 5:21 am |
    • BralenX

      Captain America is gay, stupid.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:22 am |
    • DragonSlayer Lights Your Fire

      and we would welcome them with open arms. just shows the type of person you are.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:08 am |
  7. Mark from Middle River

    Funny how all these vile, liberal and gay atheists continue to come to this RELIGIOUS blogs. They claim they don't believe in Jesus, but they flock to this blog because deep down they know that something is missing in their lives. They are full of spiteful hate for Christians because they are JEALOUS of what we have. They are AFRAID to admit that they are wrong. They live in fear and the only way they can justify their hate is by persecuting those that possess what they want. This is why Adolph Hitler killed off 6 million Jews. He was atheist trash that hated the chosen people. Stalin was also atheist garbage.

    The world is getting worse and the way that atheism tries to destroy moral value has come in many forms over the centuries. This time around it is in the form of so-called FORCED tolerance. They tell you that you WILL support and defend sin in the form of gay activity. You WILL support gays according to the laws of the liberal agenda machine. You WILL soften your stance and murder your own moral standing. You WILL reject God and obey IMMORAL people. This is what they teach in schools.

    Stop voting these liberals into office. Vote for people with MORALS that will do something to stop these atheists and gays from destroying everything.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:16 am |
    • BralenX

      You're vile and you have no morals. Your love to hate is what gets you off. You ain't no Christian.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:21 am |
    • Fran

      is middle river a nickname for backwoods uneducated hillbilly?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:26 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Atheist liberal garbage proving my point again.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:29 am |
    • Fran

      Your point is proving to the world you're ignorant. My point is the bible was written by man. Actually, men. Many men. That's pretty gay.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:34 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Ignorance is rejection of the Word of God, and then claiming that you now have all of the answers once you are empty-handed. That sounds awfully foolish to me.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:37 am |
    • Crom

      Mark is a poe troll without a clue how to argue honestly or speak without lying.
      His lust for men gets the better of him here as we can all see.

      Maybe he'll learn how to be a non-racist, non-bigot, honest person, but I'm not waiting around for a thousand years here while he finally figures out how bad he's been suckered in and how bad he sucks.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:46 am |
    • Marks Male Lover

      i see no pertinent arguement in that rambling mark. Hence, the former arguement wins. Bible = Gay

      May 19, 2012 at 5:48 am |
    • M Rose

      Not all Christians are filled with hatred as Mark From Middle River, in fact I'd say a good share aren't. Not all believers share the same interpretation of the Bible or theology and haven't since the beginning of the church – that is not what binds us together and it's not our place to pass judgement on someone else's standing with God – only He can do that.

      I also know not all non believers are as filled with hatred as some on this site are. The anonymity of the web encourages people to behave in a way and say things they wouldn't face to face.

      I also know that not all non believers are as hate filled as some of the atheist posters I've read on this site.

      That hatred and division in this country simply because people disagree with each other will be the end of the U.S., not any political or religious belief.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:58 am |
    • Jen

      Dearest Mark, Jesus Christ would have been called a liberal today. He gave to the poor. He asked that we give ALL to the poor. This Bible you love to quote said that God showed favor on the old woman who gave her LAST CENT over the rich man who gave more. The Bible you love to quote also says that if you brush up against a woman on her period, you are unclean. I don't take a bath every day when I'm on my period, should I go to Hell for that? The Bible says it is a law. I have eaten shellfish, should I go to Hell for that? That is in the Bible too. Mark, it also says that if a person judges another person, he has sinned mightily too. Seems like you may be going to Hell for that. You are awesome at the judging part. The loving part? Not so much.

      May 19, 2012 at 7:03 am |
    • Questions401

      We like to keep an eye on the crazies, the things you type let us know if we should put more meds in your food.

      May 19, 2012 at 7:29 am |
    • M Rose

      Mark from the Middle you reflect poorly upon Christianity when you sink to hateful name calling "Atheist garbage" and "filth" You might want to take a look at your own life and remove the log from your own eye before commenting on the splinter in your brother's.

      May 19, 2012 at 7:35 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      Sorry guys, good or bad what this person wrote. It was not me. The real Mark from Middle River is normally asleep between 5am and 11am each day. My past posts show it.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
  8. Nii

    I have noticed a sad thing in America! A lot of people confuse the subjective with the objective. An opinion is subjective and a fact is objective. The Bible judges ho.mo.se.xuality as a sin. Thats objective. Whether u will follow its judgements is subjective. Christ came to help us be spiritual.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:03 am |
    • Han

      I imagine eating shellfish is also an objective sin?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:14 am |
    • Jen

      Christ's main idea was to LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I HAVE LOVED YOU. Did you forget that part?

      May 19, 2012 at 7:06 am |
  9. Proudly Gay

    I will not twist my panties over a piece of paper.

    May 19, 2012 at 5:02 am |
    • BralenX

      Humans have no business putting words in God's mouth..... Does God have a mouth?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:05 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      The Word of God speaks for God. And the Word of God clearly states that gay activity is a sin. Sin is nothing to be proud of.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:06 am |
    • Crom

      Since there is no god, then all your crap doesn't matter, Mark.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:15 am |
    • Because

      Like drugs and other illegal and prohibited things, are most desirable for filthy and loathsome creatures.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:32 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      Sorry guys, good or bad what this person wrote. It was not me. The real Mark from Middle River is normally asleep between 5am and 11am each day. My past posts show it. I wish CNN could fix this.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • Crom

      Neither will I.

      May 19, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
  10. BralenX

    The Bible needs to be updated for the 22nd century. I can't believe people of THIS century are still using it to persecute each other. EVOLVE HUMANS!

    May 19, 2012 at 4:54 am |
    • BRANDON

      thank u...christians today think when people are not living according to the bible then they have the authority to cast hell on whomever....its sickening....and can someone tell me that if a kid was gay and he was a full hearted christian that there preacher would look them in the eyes and say give up ur going to hell

      May 19, 2012 at 4:59 am |
    • wifeontherag

      we live in the 21st century genius

      May 19, 2012 at 5:07 am |
    • Flamespeak

      Some would tell the child that, Brandon.

      Many more than I would like to think about would call for hellfire on the child in such a situation.

      Not all though. I actually ran into a situation with an old Southern Baptist preacher who told a very yound man this "The Lord will love you if you do right by Him. It is more imporantant to be faithful than anything else in this world. When you find someone, whoever it might be, that you wish to be in a comitted relationship with, cherish them, do right by them, and keep them close. There is no way someone as loving as God would fail to award such love and loyalty from one of his children."

      May 19, 2012 at 5:09 am |
    • BralenX

      I know we are living in the 21st century you mook. Did you even read my comment?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:10 am |
    • Nii

      BRANDON
      A gay boy wud only have to give up gay s.ex. Not so tough if they are strong Christians who love God with all their life and their neighbour as themselves.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:11 am |
    • BralenX

      Being gay is perfectly natural. God loves his gay children the most.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:16 am |
    • Crom

      @Nii – And what if those children had been taught, as many are, to hate themselves and to hate others?
      So much for your pathetic and unethical golden rule. Try again?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:17 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Being gay is not natural. Have you ever seen two males produce children by engaging in gay activities with one another?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:18 am |
    • Welcome To Reality

      Well, I don't know about Persecute, but to use as a guide for holy living? Absolutely!

      May 19, 2012 at 5:25 am |
    • Fran

      once again, mark thinks he can prove a point by connecting two unrelated dots to one another. Hey mark, you sure know a lot about gay activities, I suppose a lot of experimenting goes on back there amongst rednecks. Tell us, when you read these gay articles on the Internet, how hard do you whack it?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:40 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Very mature of you, Fran. You represent the manner in which the majority of brainwashed liberal trash conduct themselves. You're a winner.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:46 am |
    • Flamespeak

      Just because something is naturally occurirng doesn't mean it is right and good.

      Retardation, Harlequin babies, psychosis, and many other things are naturally occurring.

      Not speaking ill of ho mo s exuality, here, just calling attention to an argument that is rather moot.

      I would prefer that people leave it at this, 'What two consenting adults do with one another that doesn't cause physical or financial harm to others, should be legal and they should be left alone."

      May 19, 2012 at 6:00 am |
    • JW

      Brandon: Those going to heaven have repented, meaning they do not practice sinning as a way of life. This requirement is from God Himself.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:33 am |
    • btldriver

      BralenX,
      God does love his children but I don't think He likes it when they do something wrong. He can seperate the sin from the sinner. I love my children but that doesn't mean I am happy with some of their actions but I don't stop loving them just because they did something wrong.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
  11. mutability

    Reading all the angry ranting in these comments and the occasional quiet plea for understanding, it strikes me that what has been exposed through this issue is exactly the same problem that exists in Islam. Some people taking an extreme view and using their Holy Book to justify it. The Bible and the Quran have always been and will always be open to interpretation, but when people start killing others in that religions name, or start denying others their rights in the name of religion, something is badly wrong.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:53 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Being gay is not a right. It is a CHOICE to sin against God. It is your own fault for rejecting truth for liberalism.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:19 am |
  12. Welcome To Reality

    Well, at least there is 1 thing this article has completely correct:

    "The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler."

    I guess this is why we don't allow modern day lawyers to interpret the Word of God for us either.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:51 am |
  13. kirk

    many will say lord lord and he will say depart from me you workers of iniquity...the writer of this article should bear that in mind as he spreads his heresy

    May 19, 2012 at 4:48 am |
  14. kirk

    you and this article are directly from the pit ...in the name of Christ Jesus i rebuke you and your plethora of lies

    May 19, 2012 at 4:44 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Excellent post! Stand up for what is right!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:52 am |
    • Crom

      lol
      "WE speak for God! Not YOU!"

      LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

      May 19, 2012 at 5:19 am |
    • JWT

      yawn. Who cares what you rebuke.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:13 am |
    • abkohler06

      and your rebuke went un-noticed...
      Sad little man, so angry and full of hate. I pray for you and your family

      May 21, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
  15. Nii

    As a fellow Anglican/Episcopalian it saddens me to see how far the Church has sunk in America! Gay s.ex is a sin to God and the Bible does condemn it. Having gay thoughts is not a sin! That is why celibate "gays" are allowed in the priesthood but s.exually active gays are banned.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:43 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      America is sinking straight into hell. The liberal agenda machine is slowly killing any moral values left in these lands by promoting gay activities. It needs to be stopped.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:54 am |
    • Flamespeak

      @Mark

      Amazingly enough I agree with you in regards to liberalism in the USA being terrible. Although we probably feel it is terrible for different reasons.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:59 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Thank you Flame. Why is it so difficult for others to see the havoc they are promoting?

      May 19, 2012 at 5:01 am |
    • Jen

      Nii, there you go again. This "sin" is acceptable. That "sin" isn't acceptable. How do you keep them straight? How do you know you aren't going to the hot spot because you ate a piece of shrimp? How do you know you aren't going to the hot spot because you brushed up against a woman on her period while walking down the street? How do you know you aren't going to hell because you wore different fabrics on your body at the same time? All these RULES may be in the Bible but so is Jesus's direct quote: LOVE ONE ANOTHER. He doesn't say that he only loves you if you are perfect. He LOVES EVERYBODY and he directly tells you to as well. The Bible also says to not judge and to leave that up to God. Why do you only pay attention to some of it? What about the other stuff? I get so confused about that.

      May 19, 2012 at 7:14 am |
  16. Mark from Middle River

    My reply to the posting on the last page will no doubt be lost to the sands of time, so I will post it again.

    Yes, we are a Christian nation and have been since its inception. Our founders were Christian. They valued morality, something atheist garbage will never understand. Something atheist garbage denies daily. Yes, we are in FACT a Christian nation whether you want to admit to the truth or not. We are a MAJORITY. I dare you to look up the percentage of Christians versus the rest of the population. When you're done, please by all means come back and tell me that we aren't a Christian nation without looking foolish in the process. I'll wait here for your response.

    I am fairly well-balanced, thank you. I'm willing to stand up for my rights. Are you? Probably not. Just a bunch of laptop jockeys pretending to care for a cause but I bet you aren't willing to speak to your politicians. You know that deep down, being gay is wrong. It is a SIN. But you're just laying down and taking it because you're afraid to stand up for anything. This is your own fault. YOU are to blame. You then get angry at people like me that speak the truth because of what you have denied yourself out of fear. I am nothing more than a reminder of what it is you detest but are too afraid to stand against. This is basic psychology. Your hatred of me is merely an outward projection of the jealousy you have for me because unlike you, I am not afraid, and I will stand for what is right. You are all cowards for not standing up and telling your political leaders that you don't want gay pride parades in front of your children. Children do not need to see men holding hands, kissing or groping each other in public. It is the worst possible thing for children to see. It confuses them and they will tell you they think it is gross. They aren't taught this, they are born knowing that it is unnatural.

    Gays do not belong on this soil. We need to vote the current "leader" out of office for repealing don't ask don't tell and allowing their kind in our military. The last thing we need are problems in the barracks causing dissention in the ranks.

    Deport them with illegals, period. The men and women of our Armed Forces have fought and died for this country and to repay them with allowing gays to destroy the moral fiber of everything they've sacrificed is wrong. It is a sin, and it can't be ignored.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:43 am |
    • Jesus Loves Dudes

      How do you feel about the countless people your 'peaceful" organization has murdered over the past 2000 years? How many people has your "peaceful" organization killed in the name of god in the past 2000 years? Millions? Ten of millions? christianity is THE most murderous organization in human history, NO ONE has murdered more people than the christians in human history. The entire reiligion is based around killing people.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:48 am |
    • Crom

      @Murk – Since we all know you to be a liar, why should we listen to anything you have to say?
      Remember the boy who cried wolf?
      That's you. A liar who isn't worth listening to.
      There is no wolf. You're just a liar.
      It must be pretty uncomfortable in that closet.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:49 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      I've never killed anyone. Please stop using this pointless argument to prove your non-point. People made mistakes in the past. That would be like me holding white people responsible and demanding that YOU apologize for slave ownership of my ancestors. Seems a little silly, does it not?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:51 am |
    • BralenX

      You're stupid and hateful.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:51 am |
    • ohsnaps

      our founders were not christian. you cannot speak for them. you can, however, do your homework; at whence point you will discover (much to your dismay, I'm sure) that many of our founders were not self-professed christians. sorry to burst your bubble, dude.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:55 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Wrong. I'm highly intelligent and willing to stand up for what is right, not for what the liberal machine tells me to think is right. It is a known fact that being gay is a sin. The bible tells us this. What is so difficult for you to understand?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:55 am |
    • ohsnaps

      BTW, you are also a lap-top jockey; largely due to the fact that your post is so long-winded.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:57 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      snaps, our founders were Christians. The liberal machine has been rewriting history for years ever since it began removing prayer and Christ from our classrooms. They do not want our children to know that Jesus is our savior. They want everyone to accept their agenda as their new religion. Atheists spread the lies of the left and continue to deteriorate the moral standing of what was once the pillar of Christ holding this country together. Due to liberal agenda's push for moral decay, that pillar is diminishing and on the brink of collapse. These are signs of the end times and Jesus will prevail over all evil.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:59 am |
    • Joel

      Don't feed the trolls.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:05 am |
    • ohsnaps

      Nope. only says you. sorry. nope. and it's ohsnaps, not snaps. see, you can't even get that right.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:05 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      There's no convincing liberal atheist garbage. You'll deny Jesus Himself when you're standing before Him at judgement. That is how foolish you are.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:09 am |
    • Crom

      What is foolish is turning away from all facts, all truth, all honesty, and instead getting fooled into believing a bunch of nonsense we can prove to be utterly false.
      Really, Mark, your rants are quite lame these days. Drank some more koolaide, eh? Gotta have dem pops!

      May 19, 2012 at 5:22 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      You've proven that God does not exist, Crom? Oh, please enlighten all of us. This has been debated for a couple thousand years. It's refreshing that the great atheist trash Crom has finally arrived at a satisfying, factual conclusion supported by evidence!

      May 19, 2012 at 5:32 am |
    • LoL

      America is not a Christian nation. You are an uneducated imbecile to keep repeating the same lie over and over again. Go to our capital and count how many egyptian or pagan symbols adorn our monuments and halls of government. Look on your dollar bill and count how many Christian symbols show up versus how many pagan. You are delusional if you believe this is a Christian nation. The Christian values you so blatantly ignore and tout at the same time, they've been repeated for centuries before Christ came around. Christianity is just a remix bro. Wake up

      May 19, 2012 at 5:41 am |
    • LoL

      Did atheists twist the paintings in our capitol building into George Washington ascending into heaven amidst a cloud while his disciples look on? I think that painting has been there for a while.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:47 am |
    • Crom

      Oh, it's not just me, Murk-brain.
      There's about a BILLION atheist/agnostics in the world today and I'd bet most of them agree with me because I can prove things using facts. I do not pretend my bigotry is the bigotry of some god. I do not pretend my conclusions do not need proof.
      I have proof. There is no god. All your words are useless, Mark. Nobody is listening to you because you are a liar. Liar.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:51 am |
    • M Rose

      We are a Republic, not a democracy. The founding fathers set up our government this so that there would be no tyranny of the majority over the minority. Our government was founded by a combination of Christians and Deists, but having studied the actions of our government even against it's own people we haven't been a Christian nation since the beginning, much as some people want it to be. Not to mention whose Christian theology do we make the official one? Episcopalian, Evangelical, Roman Catholic? Methodist? Quaker? We also now have significant numbers of atheists, Buddhists, Sieks, Muslims, etc. etc. And every American is equal to every other American. It is the hatred that will tear us apart – not any political or religious belief.

      May 19, 2012 at 7:41 am |
    • DJ

      You are a hateful person. You do not speak for God and I seriously doubt you will be entered into the Kingdom when you pass. Your time would be better spent praying that God forgive you and give you the strength to be a better, loving person.

      May 19, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • avdin

      Stalin killed far more people in the name of atheism than anyone everyone else combined who killed in the name of a religion during the 20th century. most wars are fought over land rights. the last truly christian religious wars where religion was indeed the motive for war were during the protestant reformation 400 years ago. That's not to say others didn't claim to be doing things in the name of God, but they obviously had other motives.

      May 21, 2012 at 1:08 am |
    • abkohler06

      I am guessing you don't have a job and are a useless part of our society. Please go work and contribute something other than hate... you sad (hopefully single and without kids) loser. The world would be a better place if people like you were castrated

      May 21, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • aaronj77

      "deport them with the illegals" dude you are f#$@!!ed up! i will pray for you
      deport american citizens sheesh! so sad

      May 23, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
  17. 79transam

    What a well thought out and intelligent piece.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:42 am |
  18. Wim

    "The answer is in the Bible." That's when my eyes start glazing over. It's a collection of books written, assembled, edited and redacted by other people, FFS. If I point to my great-uncle's diary and say that the answer on gay marriage can be found in his private opinion on the matter, I would be laughed at.

    "The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new."

    This is about as condescending and arrogant as Mitt Romney at Liberty University saying: "there is no greater force for good in the nation than Christian conscience in action." Shame on you for implying that others who do not buy into this are somehow not as good as you claim to be.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:39 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      You are experiencing the feeling of denial due to your own admitted rejection of Christ and His Word. None of us are "better" than you. We merely on a different spiritual path that feels wonderful. It is a matter of sharing that path, not to make you feel like you are any less of a man.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:45 am |
    • Crom

      Mark is still struggling in the closet.
      Time to come out, Mark!
      Get yourself some of that man-love you apparently want so much!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:53 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      No Crom, you are incorrect. I'm not a liberal.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:00 am |
    • Clinton Bunch

      I doubt that the Bible is the word of God. I expect the word of an omnipotent, omniscient being to be logical and consistent. The bible tells 2 versions of creation in the first 3 chapters and doesn't agree on the details. That's why it's not God's Word. I'm not saying there isn't good stuff in there, but mostly I think it's a mirror. You only see in it that which is already in you.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:24 am |
    • Crom

      @Murk – The loudest ho.mophobes are in the Republican party, so I guess I don't see what sort of point you're trying to make there, Mark.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:25 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Clinton, the creation "contradiction" as atheists LOVE to claim has been debunked time and again. Please do some research. Thank you for your pointless broken-record atheist drivel.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:34 am |
    • Crom

      "do some research"?
      LOL
      As in "look up facts"? As in "seek the truth of the matter"?
      LOL
      How do you think we became atheists? Many used "research" to come to the firm conclusion that there is no god and your bible is total bullshtt.
      LOL

      May 19, 2012 at 5:54 am |
    • Clinton Bunch

      I have done my research, and I've never heard a reasonable explanation for the differing details in the stories of creation. Regardless, a truly divinely inspired book would have no need to tell the same story twice, much less have mismatched details. What make you think I'm an atheist? I said I didn't believe the Bible was the word of God. I didn't say I didn't believe in God. I believe in a loving Creator who created an evolving universe 14 billion years, just because it would be beautiful.

      The big difference is that I understand that just because I believe it, doesn't mean it's truth. Doesn't mean it isn't either, but I know what I believe and I know why I believe it. (Duckbill Platypus. That had to be someone's idea of a joke)

      May 19, 2012 at 8:32 am |
  19. Nii

    This article n the previous one on gay marriage unfortunately make a grave error. The law on ho.mo.se.xuality is not a ritual law which Gentile Xtians may disregard but rather a moral law which can't be disregarded. The question is why are they pushing it as a ritual law? The Law is still in effect

    May 19, 2012 at 4:35 am |
    • Crom

      @Nii – Who are you to say one way or the other? Are you going to show us your god? No. Does your god exist? No.
      Are you stupid for skipping over this very important part of the thinking process? Yes.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:43 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      God reveals Himself to those who genuinely come to Him for salvation. We as Christians can't show you God. You have to go to God yourself. Atheists always demand proof, when they themselves consistently deny themselves the proof by rejecting the Lord and His Word. They reject it not only by claims of non-existence, but acceptance of immoral behavior that the liberal agenda continues to push. Being gay is a SIN and it is both immoral and unnatural.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:47 am |
    • Nii

      CROM
      Are u stupid for answering a post meant for xtians? Yes!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:48 am |
    • Crom

      @Nii – Are you stupid for saying you know what is and what isn't a "proper belief" for a bunch of delusional liars? Yes.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:51 am |
    • Nii

      CROM
      Are you making a psychiatric diagnosis! Thats so delusional!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:55 am |
    • Crom

      @Nii – I'm going by the definition of delusional here. So, yes, I'm making a qualified observation here. You? Not so much.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:26 am |
    • Safae

      GregYeah, definitely! Straight-acting is by far the most iltnnsiug thing someone can say in an ad on a gay web-site looking for Mr. Right now! If you are acting, you are nor really being you. We all have our moments when we might prefer a feather boa to a wool scarf, or another when we get really turned on by an aromatic underarm instead of perfume. And that's all in the same person, eh? People are complex beings who defy labels. I know I'm gay because I love c**k (uncut, of course). Whether I wear construction boots or ballet slippers, makes no difference to that fundamental reality.Be well, (please say Hi to Alex)

      November 8, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
  20. Patrick

    As I read this immedetly see one error. That is th error of moral relativism. Moral relativism would have you beleive that we as humans do not have the right to make moral judgements upon other people. My firends this it is the work of the devil who seeks to blur the truth. When he blurs the truth he causes many to fall into eternal damnation. The natural law is truth and is proven through philosophy. Secondly on countless occasion Jesus says its better to kill someone then to allow your brother to continualy sin gravely. Why? Because the longer he is allowed to sin the more his soul is damaged. To continue, when one receives the sacraments of comunion and marriage one receives grace, if the soul is dead due to sin he cannot receive anything. Saint Paul says in Corinthians that those who eat of the flesh unworthily bring damnationupon themselves. heisallowed

    May 19, 2012 at 4:35 am |
    • Joel

      I'm just going ignore for now the fact that you offer no evidence for the existence of damnation or a soul to be damaged. Lets stick to you. I'm going to stick to "The natural law is truth and is proven through philosophy." All I can say is, LOL. In my experience, natural law is the second most ridiculed philosophical system and is well known to be nothing more than an attempt to inject religion into philosophical conversation. Philosophy rejects natural law theory. (If you curious, the first is Aristotelian virtue ethics, which consists solely of circular logic.)

      May 19, 2012 at 5:14 am |
    • SemperFi78

      Oh goody that means when we determine YOU have sinned gravely we can just off you? (your argument not mine) where is this line drawn? I know why don't we just all stand in a big circle and point guns at each other and decide as a group who's the biggest sinner until just one person is left. Then we'll know who Jesus' favorite will be. Freaking ridiculous interpretation of God's message. Perfect example of how such a simple message is lost on such a total imbecile.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:51 am |
    • Mallory

      Patrick, I see what you're saying. The author seems to me to say that we shouldn't withhold the means of grace from anyone because it will be transformative for them. e.g. infant baptism. But I think you're making a really good point. If you're actively rebelling from God, you shouldn't seek grace unless you are willing to repent. Because if you don't believe you're sinning, why do you need grace? Most Christians don't view marriage as a sacrament, but for those who do, I think they should think about what you're saying. Baptism and communion require penitence and thought before you seek them.

      May 23, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228

Post a comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.