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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • My Take • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Lone Ranger

    he huge amount of change in s@x orientation is one of the clearest evidences that h0m0 is not hard-wired by genes or anything in the bio environment.Large studies now show that For adults About half of those with exclusive SSA move towards hetero over a lifetime. Put another way, 3% of the practicing hetero population both men and women claim to have once been either bi or h0m0 These changes are not ther-a-peut-ically induced, some very quickly. Most changes in or-ien-ta-tion are towards exclusive hetero. Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive OSA are greater than current numbers of bis and exclusive SSA is same-s@x attraction; OSA opposite s@x attraction.SSA people combined. In other words, Ex-gays outnumber actual gays. Exclusive OSA is 17 times as stable as exclusive SSA for men,and 30 times as stable as exclusive SSA for women. Women move about more in their orientation than men..
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    ..Modern methods of treatment enable a significant proportion of h0m0 who wish to change their orientation to do so. At the same time, h0mo who are bothered by or in conflict with their S feelings but who are either uninterested in changing, or unable to change, their S orientation can be helped to accept themselves as they are and to rid themselves of self-hatred.
    Its purpose is
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    Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
    Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

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    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    I don't go by trends because trends come and go, I don't live in a vacuum either. I have seen too many human failings and all say they know best yet fall on their face. But I have not seen those who put faith in the Lord fall and not get up. I have seen drug addicts accept the Lord and never do drugs again, The same with every addiction and perversion out there. some lives a terrible train wreck and they make the decision to accept the Lord and you would not recognize some of them today. I have seen families reunited with a word from the Lord. so you want me to accept something that I have never seen good come out of? Something that the Lord says is no good? To me that is where I will put my trust not in the whims of man or atheists that don't know and don't have answers. You only know a limited amount because you don’t know the spirit and think it foolish, a side of life I know well. God is a spirit. All churches should welcome gays but not perform gay marriage. A church is supposed to be a hospital and training center if they throw out the people who need the Lord then why are they here. But they cannot bend the rules gay is a sin just like any other sin but the church doesn't indulge sin it casts it out. God can change anyone it’s just how close do you want to be and will you give up what He wants you to. I would think gays knowing what the Bible says about gay copulation would strive to follow the Bible rather than subvert it so that the full blessings of God would be received. If a church does marry gays and knowing the Bible condemns this if it were me I would say that I wouldn't want to be a part of a club that bends the rules to accept me. I am what I am God accepts me and I don't try to subvert the Bible but try to live it and I want all the gifts and good things God has for me. The churches that are the money grubbers and liars are the ones that accept gay marriage how good can that church be if it will lie about its own doctrine? Why would anyone want to try just to feel good rather than let God make you feel good and remove the condemnation Himself? Man cannot remove what Gods law has ordained but God can make a person live comfortably in His law. This is the experience that is denied those that tickle their ears or listen to people who say God won’t accept them. He came for the sinners but He said REPENT or go and sin no more. You can love someone but not accept their lifestyle. As Jesus loved the sinners and saints He didn’t bend what God told Him to do but wept at the loss of a soul. If i have to live on the fringes of society or be the voice of one crying in the wilderness so be it. I would rather be that one and have nothing on the outward than to have everything on the outward and lose my relationship with God. I could have bit the dust several times in my life and it was the Lords protection that brought me through so where do you think my loyalty is going to be?
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    .

    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    January 17, 2013 at 8:18 pm |

  2. 261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

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    John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

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    Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.
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    Eric

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    James

    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
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    Brent

    "There is no Christian case for "gay marriage"

    Religion-based bigotry use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the atudes of some people today toward hosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with atudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced atudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify atudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

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    Elaine

    "Sodom and Gomorrah is still a good example. "

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted ra pe of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterose xuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were ho mose xuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and ra pe, mainly by heterose xuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same se x, and ho mose xuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against ho mose xuality in general is like comparing ra pe to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions ho mose xuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – se xual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a se xual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterose xual practicing ho mose xual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since se x with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the se xual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to hom ose xuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray ho mose xuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral hom ose xuals, just as there are immoral heterose xuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our se xuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterose xual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned hom ose xuality. I believe that was because ho mose xuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of ho mose xuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.

    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16

    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning ho mose xual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterose xual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that ho mose xual se x is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates hom ose xuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean hom ose xual se x generally, but only limiting hom ose xual se x in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce hom ose xual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal se x. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have se x with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have se x with another man in the temple;" and "don't have se x with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have se x with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born se xless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven hom ose xuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for hom ose xual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the se xes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against hom ose xual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid hom ose xual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists hom ose xuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "hom ose xual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prost itutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their se xual orientation, the fact remains that hom ose xuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept hom ose xuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Hom ose xuality is normal. The phrase "para physin" appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, hom ose xuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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    YeahRight

    Bob – the biggest liar anywhere. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts in this country are stating that heterose xual behavior and hom ose xual behavior are normal aspects of human se xuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bise xual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that hom ose xuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterose xual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-se x partners closely resemble those of heterose xual partnerships. Like heterose xual couples, same-se x couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterose xual and same-se x couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterose xual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-se x parents as it is for children of opposite-se x parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-se x parents as for children of opposite-se x parents.

    Assertions that heterose xual couples are inherently better parents than same se x couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterose xual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterose xual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterose xual parents.

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    mama k

    Bob and Douglas continue to push their bigoted agenda here on this article. They seem stuck in the past – quoting outdated material and living with this very narrow view of the world.

    I have a funny feeling that SCOTUS will soon do away with DOMA. Even many of the people who were pushing for it before have vocally turned around on it. So whether it be slow, or sped up by SCOTUS, traditional marriage laws will fall reasonable soon. It's difficult to slow down a civil rights movement once it gets going.

    Whether one likes it or not, the Biblical case for gay marriage was actually made quite a long time ago. Gay couples have been getting married in quite a number of Christian and other churches in the states where it has been legal. The opportunities will grow as more and more states push for gay marriage laws. It's hard to stop a justifiable civil rights movement once it gets going.

    For those interested, the following faiths perform same-s ex marriage:

    -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
    -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
    -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
    -Metropolitan Community Church
    -Unitarian Universalist

    and I'm confident that more mainstream faiths in the U.S. will join that list as DOMA is repealed and more states join the list of those that have already legalized gay marriage.

    Also, for those interested, check out these gay-friendly organizations if looking for a church:

    http://www.gaychurch.org/
    http://www.awab.org

    And I'm sure there are more. Do your own research and if you really want church, find one that is fully accepting of you and your partner.

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    January 17, 2013 at 8:14 pm |

  3. 261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

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    John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

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    Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.
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    Eric

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    James

    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
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    Brent

    "There is no Christian case for "gay marriage"

    Religion-based bigotry use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the atudes of some people today toward hosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with atudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced atudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify atudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

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    Elaine

    "Sodom and Gomorrah is still a good example. "

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted ra pe of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterose xuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were ho mose xuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and ra pe, mainly by heterose xuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same se x, and ho mose xuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against ho mose xuality in general is like comparing ra pe to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions ho mose xuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – se xual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a se xual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterose xual practicing ho mose xual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since se x with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the se xual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to hom ose xuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray ho mose xuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral hom ose xuals, just as there are immoral heterose xuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our se xuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterose xual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned hom ose xuality. I believe that was because ho mose xuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of ho mose xuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.

    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16

    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning ho mose xual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterose xual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that ho mose xual se x is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates hom ose xuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean hom ose xual se x generally, but only limiting hom ose xual se x in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce hom ose xual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal se x. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have se x with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have se x with another man in the temple;" and "don't have se x with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have se x with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born se xless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven hom ose xuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for hom ose xual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the se xes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against hom ose xual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid hom ose xual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists hom ose xuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "hom ose xual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prost itutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their se xual orientation, the fact remains that hom ose xuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept hom ose xuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Hom ose xuality is normal. The phrase "para physin" appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, hom ose xuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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    YeahRight

    Bob – the biggest liar anywhere. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts in this country are stating that heterose xual behavior and hom ose xual behavior are normal aspects of human se xuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bise xual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that hom ose xuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterose xual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-se x partners closely resemble those of heterose xual partnerships. Like heterose xual couples, same-se x couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterose xual and same-se x couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterose xual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-se x parents as it is for children of opposite-se x parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-se x parents as for children of opposite-se x parents.

    Assertions that heterose xual couples are inherently better parents than same se x couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterose xual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterose xual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterose xual parents.

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    mama k

    Bob and Douglas continue to push their bigoted agenda here on this article. They seem stuck in the past – quoting outdated material and living with this very narrow view of the world.

    I have a funny feeling that SCOTUS will soon do away with DOMA. Even many of the people who were pushing for it before have vocally turned around on it. So whether it be slow, or sped up by SCOTUS, traditional marriage laws will fall reasonable soon. It's difficult to slow down a civil rights movement once it gets going.

    Whether one likes it or not, the Biblical case for gay marriage was actually made quite a long time ago. Gay couples have been getting married in quite a number of Christian and other churches in the states where it has been legal. The opportunities will grow as more and more states push for gay marriage laws. It's hard to stop a justifiable civil rights movement once it gets going.

    For those interested, the following faiths perform same-s ex marriage:

    -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
    -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
    -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
    -Metropolitan Community Church
    -Unitarian Universalist

    and I'm confident that more mainstream faiths in the U.S. will join that list as DOMA is repealed and more states join the list of those that have already legalized gay marriage.

    Also, for those interested, check out these gay-friendly organizations if looking for a church:

    http://www.gaychurch.org/
    http://www.awab.org

    And I'm sure there are more. Do your own research and if you really want church, find one that is fully accepting of you and your partner.

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    January 17, 2013 at 8:13 pm |

  4. 261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

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    John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

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    Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.
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    Eric

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    James

    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
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    Brent

    "There is no Christian case for "gay marriage"

    Religion-based bigotry use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the atudes of some people today toward hosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with atudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced atudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify atudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

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    Elaine

    "Sodom and Gomorrah is still a good example. "

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted ra pe of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterose xuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were ho mose xuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and ra pe, mainly by heterose xuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same se x, and ho mose xuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against ho mose xuality in general is like comparing ra pe to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions ho mose xuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – se xual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a se xual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterose xual practicing ho mose xual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since se x with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the se xual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to hom ose xuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray ho mose xuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral hom ose xuals, just as there are immoral heterose xuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our se xuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterose xual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned hom ose xuality. I believe that was because ho mose xuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of ho mose xuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.

    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16

    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning ho mose xual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterose xual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that ho mose xual se x is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates hom ose xuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean hom ose xual se x generally, but only limiting hom ose xual se x in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce hom ose xual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal se x. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have se x with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have se x with another man in the temple;" and "don't have se x with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have se x with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born se xless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven hom ose xuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for hom ose xual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the se xes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against hom ose xual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid hom ose xual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists hom ose xuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "hom ose xual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prost itutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their se xual orientation, the fact remains that hom ose xuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept hom ose xuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Hom ose xuality is normal. The phrase "para physin" appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, hom ose xuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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    YeahRight

    Bob – the biggest liar anywhere. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts in this country are stating that heterose xual behavior and hom ose xual behavior are normal aspects of human se xuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bise xual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that hom ose xuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterose xual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-se x partners closely resemble those of heterose xual partnerships. Like heterose xual couples, same-se x couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterose xual and same-se x couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterose xual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-se x parents as it is for children of opposite-se x parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-se x parents as for children of opposite-se x parents.

    Assertions that heterose xual couples are inherently better parents than same se x couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterose xual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterose xual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterose xual parents.

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    mama k

    Bob and Douglas continue to push their bigoted agenda here on this article. They seem stuck in the past – quoting outdated material and living with this very narrow view of the world.

    I have a funny feeling that SCOTUS will soon do away with DOMA. Even many of the people who were pushing for it before have vocally turned around on it. So whether it be slow, or sped up by SCOTUS, traditional marriage laws will fall reasonable soon. It's difficult to slow down a civil rights movement once it gets going.

    Whether one likes it or not, the Biblical case for gay marriage was actually made quite a long time ago. Gay couples have been getting married in quite a number of Christian and other churches in the states where it has been legal. The opportunities will grow as more and more states push for gay marriage laws. It's hard to stop a justifiable civil rights movement once it gets going.

    For those interested, the following faiths perform same-s ex marriage:

    -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
    -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
    -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
    -Metropolitan Community Church
    -Unitarian Universalist

    and I'm confident that more mainstream faiths in the U.S. will join that list as DOMA is repealed and more states join the list of those that have already legalized gay marriage.

    Also, for those interested, check out these gay-friendly organizations if looking for a church:

    http://www.gaychurch.org/
    http://www.awab.org

    And I'm sure there are more. Do your own research and if you really want church, find one that is fully accepting of you and your partner.

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    January 17, 2013 at 8:12 pm |
  5. Lone Ranger

    Same-gender activists took over the podium and microphones. Then, “Konstantin Berlandt, of Berkeley GLF, paraded through the hall in bright red dress. Paper airplanes sailed down from the balcony. With two papers still unread, the chairman announced adjournment.” On June 23, 70 same-gender activists disrupted yet another meeting, this time in Chicago, be repeatedly shouting down the main speakers discourse. Then, in October at a meeting at the University of Southern California, same-gender activists shouted down a speaker and then took over the stage and the microphone

    How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage.

    Yeah maybe you better stick to the cut and paste that you know
    Jud 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
    Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
    Jud 1:8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
    Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
    Jud 1:10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
    Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
    Jud 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
    Jud 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
    Jud 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
    Jud 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
    Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

    you like most the ones that side with the gays are so biased that you believe all the bs the small minority of your group vomits out. This is a prime example, how the hell could all the scholars down through the ages be wrong about Sodom and Gomorrah? If any of the so called 100 pastors had even cracked the Bible with a ounce of understanding and not been so deluded that they couldn't see the facts as clear as the nose on their face then maybe we would know that they are liars or deceived or just trying to destroy a society that was at one time great. Truth for the gay agenda is not truth but lie upon lie upon lie and mixed with drama and more lies and the worst studies ever put out by so called science. Even to the point the APA doesn't have a clue, there is no agreement among the people who belong and those that did belong have quit because of all the bs that is happening it really reflects a agency in trouble big trouble. If they cannot consistently agree among themselves and establish cohesive policies that all can agree with then how are we going to believe them? There isn't enough money out there to do a real study when its done and shows problems with gays then they attack, so who in their right mind would want to do one.

    Yeah you are trully a pimple on the butt of society I have given passage after passage of proof and you have come up with nothing nada zilch just the same cut and paste from someone else. Your not original, creative, intelligent, and just a plain yuck. You have the same old tired dribble that you post, what a waste, you are truly the reason this post goes on too because you are so stupid that you keep posting the same garbage and all the posts have new information that makes you look bad. You quote gay sources and gay people no wonder you are so bias you cant even think properly. As for condemning gays they tried to distort the Bible to have acceptance of their ways but there isn't any so gays including yourself dont like it. As for using it to condemn gays it always has it just that a man from the APA decided to lie and distort the truth, thats the problem moron.You side with man and hope he wins, well he may win the battle but he will lose the war. You cant fool all of the poeple all of the time they do have a brain and will wake up to this bs you post, thats what it is about awaking the sleeper and you are helping for that thanks.

    As I think about the back and forth that is happening here I am wish sometimes that God was like the big corporations that if you violated the contract terms of employment that you would be fired. This is a immediate and noticeable rebuff that you did or said something wrong. But then I also remember that none would probably make it into heaven. But God doesn’t work this way and its not until the very end of our life that most really realize the mistakes they have done in life. The Bible promises us that the rewards and punishments will be waiting for us. When I became a Christian I looked at the contract between me and God and understood by faith the agreement and understood that I would break that agreement at times and also have forgiveness when I did. This was done by faith in the work that God did through Jesus. But I always knew the rules and what to live by and if something happened in my life the Spirit would remind me that I needed to ask forgiveness or make amends. I never wanted to change the rules in the Bible because even if you change words you will not change the rewards or punishment. I also know that I wanted a solid guide to meditate on and think about that would lead me to a greater knowledge of who I serve. I know I can’t live to the standards that God has set and no man can but I have faith in Him, I don’t need to bend or change the rules. Heck if I did it would only add more confusion which I want less of. I am not God either I wouldn’t dream of having the disrespect of changing His Word. Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. The other thing is He looks after His word to make sure it performs all that He intended it to. God has made time and made all the things of this world how amazing is it that those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt rather than embrace the word so that it would do what it is supposed to do. That is drive us to God in hopes of redemption and a life with Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith not the Bible. God is not the Bible but the Bible is a piece of God. I love the word I love the promises of God I love the revelation of God to His own. He is not dead and He still does move in the lives of those that know Him. It’s not about religion but relationship. I would say this the Christian religion is based upon the Bible if you don’t like the words of the Bible and feel condemned why don’t you go make your own religion instead of trying to basterdise Christianity. But its all about feelings isn’t it, and if you feel bad then it must be bad but that is the farthest from the truth sometimes. To change how you feel sometimes we have to change how we act and the standard that shows us is the Bible. Have faith He is faithful and able to complete a good work in us. That is what matters if you don’t pin point the problem then you will never come to the solution. The rewards that I have receive far outweigh anything that I may have had to give up

    I also find 2 other things interesting about the gay agenda they call it gay pride well that was the reason God destroyed Sodom thats also the reason they could revile angelic majesty,because of pride. Why also did the gays have to take the symbol of the rainbow as their symbol. The very thing God said He gave the world as a sign that He would not flood it ever again. The devil counterfeits everything God has. God has a star the devil has a pentagram, God is light the devil comes as a angel of light. Is it just coincidence?

    So in the first place I thought that if you were hetero then you liked women how is it that they were hetero and gay??? How do you explain the fact that they would not take lots daughters to mean that they were passing by women in favor of men that sure sounds gay to me.
    Next there are 47 verses that mention Sodom so you missed a few and what do you think Gods definition of immorality is?? As for the timing of the angels yes Sodom was already judged and the fact that the men didnt take Lots daughters signifies that they didnt want women. Also some of what Sodom was judged for was being gay and that it is a abomination to God.Although these paragraphs do not mention Sodom they do say what God thinks is a abomination and it followed the path that they and you laid down for Sodom. So it gives us a picture of how evil goes and it follows the descriptions of Sodom.
    Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
    Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
    Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
    Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
    Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
    Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
    Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
    Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
    Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
    Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
    Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
    About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.
    This was from Josephus so you don't even have to interpret the Bible I have made it easy for you there is no guessing thank you for showing us how the twisting of the Bible is done. When Jesus was up on the mountain and the devil tempted Him with the three questions Im sure if you didn't know the word of God they would sound good too. But when you know the word you dont twist it and if you do you really have to question if that person is really a Christian and of their very Salvation. I will post on the rest thank you for this opertunity to explaiin the Bible to those that may have never heard these things before.

    What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

    What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than accepting the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

    Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make human beings in Our image, to be like Us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground."
    Gen 1:27 So God created human beings in His own image. In the image of God He created them; male and female He created them.
    Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground."
    Gen 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and He brought her to the man.
    Gen 2:23 "At last!" the man exclaimed. "This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called 'woman,' because she was taken from 'man.'"
    Gen 2:24 This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.
    Gen 2:25 Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame.
    Gen_2:24 This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.
    Eph 5:31 As the Scriptures say, "A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."
    Mar 10:7 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife,
    Mar 10:8 and the two are united into one.' Since they are no longer two but one,
    Mar 10:9 let no one split apart what God has joined together."

    Below are the first few verses that will put the whole thing in context just like today David and alike are trying to tell us that gays marriage and gay fornication is ok which is a lie and once you read this you can continue to read the rest.
    Jud 1:3 Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people.
    Jud 1:4 I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live,,,, immoral lives..... The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
    ud 1:5 So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later He destroyed those who did not remain faithful.
    Jud 1:6 And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.
    Jud 1:7 And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of
    syx perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.
    He used examples of the angels to tell the people what would happen to those that would use Gods grace as a license to sin. As the people in Sodom and Gomorrah did also.

    The fact that these men hoped to have relations with the angels and that never happened nor could happen and that the angels didn't have flesh as we know it and that the city was already judged because the men in the past had gone "past tense even" after strange flesh would make it the fact that they had already done this act before the angels even appeared. It also said revile angelic majesties which would mean that in this occasion they were so blinded by their lust that they repulsed or assailed the angels no where did it state that there was intercourse or that it was even a option. So no where did it state that angels came into Sodom before this so these men would not have any hope or understanding of mating with angles. So we are understanding that the term strange flesh is in fact gay relations.

    As I think about the back and forth that is happening here I am wish sometimes that God was like the big corporations that if you violated the contract terms of employment that you would be fired. This is a immediate and noticeable rebuff that you did or said something wrong. But then I also remember that none would probably make it into heaven. But God doesn’t work this way and its not until the very end of our life that most really realize the mistakes they have done in life. The Bible promises us that the rewards and punishments will be waiting for us. When I became a Christian I looked at the contract between me and God and understood by faith the agreement and understood that I would break that agreement at times and also have forgiveness when I did. This was done by faith in the work that God did through Jesus. But I always knew the rules and what to live by and if something happened in my life the Spirit would remind me that I needed to ask forgiveness or make amends. I never wanted to change the rules in the Bible because even if you change words you will not change the rewards or punishment. I also know that I wanted a solid guide to meditate on and think about that would lead me to a greater knowledge of who I serve. I know I can’t live to the standards that God has set and no man can but I have faith in Him, I don’t need to bend or change the rules. Heck if I did it would only add more confusion which I want less of. I am not God either I wouldn’t dream of having the disrespect of changing His Word. Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. The other thing is He looks after His word to make sure it performs all that He intended it to. God has made time and made all the things of this world how amazing is it that those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt rather than embrace the word so that it would do what it is supposed to do. That is drive us to God in hopes of redemption and a life with Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith not the Bible. God is not the Bible but the Bible is a piece of God. I love the word I love the promises of God I love the revelation of God to His own. He is not dead and He still does move in the lives of those that know Him. It’s not about religion but relationship. I would say this the Christian religion is based upon the Bible if you don’t like the words of the Bible and feel condemned why don’t you go make your own religion instead of trying to basterdise Christianity. But its all about feelings isn’t it, and if you feel bad then it must be bad but that is the farthest from the truth sometimes. To change how you feel sometimes we have to change how we act and the standard that shows us is the Bible. Have faith He is faithful and able to complete a good work in us. That is what matters if you don’t pin point the problem then you will never come to the solution. The rewards that I have receive far outweigh anything that I may have had to give up. Anyone who comes on this site can see the logic put up and distortions that are tried to be put as fact. Be prepared for this as it will get worse since those talked about here dont really know what the Bible says and continue to post other peoples wrong ideas and lies about what it says.

    "Temptation" is a fierce and frightening word. In the Greek it means to destroy by degrees; it means to place someone under the peril of intense and gradual stress. In some cases it may mean "to test" in the positive sense, but it is made all the more intense in the way it is used in the New Testament where the words context is not positive, but clearly hostile.
    TEMPTATION and Its SOURCE: the peril of temptation is not the same as the danger of a frontal attack by an enemy who has openly announced his motives: "your destruction." Instead of such an open challenge, this temptation is a much more subtle kind of stress that encourages its victims to make their own false moves so that in the end they destroy themselves. It is a temptation because its goal is not to test skill but rather to bring harm. With this temptation it looks as if a person who is tempted destroyed himself. Temptation is usually not aimed at physical harm; it is usually designed to cause moral harm. In John 6 Jesus asked His disciples how they would feed the 5,000. This was not to discredit them but to cause them to think "faith." When Andrew found the boy with the lunch it was not an answer in itself but a means to an end, the miraculous feeding of the crowd. This did not destroy the disciples. They were permanently conditioned to think "faith." This was the positive use of this word but temptation is altogether different. According to the Bible, temptation is always evil. In Matthew 4:3 the devil is called "the tempter." The "question" that intends to arrange for another person's self destruction, or the physical "adventure" that draws a person into harm's way are both acts of temptation. Regardless of how pure or innocent they may appear, the fact is, they originated in hell and will be judged by God for what they are and not how they appear.

    That is the problem isn't it you think that there are many interpretations to Gods word. Well there isn't, you would like there to be just like Jesus and the three temptations on the mountain. But if you are filled with the Spirit then there is one interpretation of the Bible. Why do you think Jesus talked in parables? So that people like you would not be able to understand the true kingdom of God. Men can say anything they want, just like the devil here misinterprets scripture and Jesus corrects him. You and your lot do the same as the devil so if you act the same then where did you come from? It is beauty, wholeness and peace to live the Word rather than to distort it to accommodate a personal view.
    Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
    Mat 4:2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry.
    Mat 4:3 And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
    Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"
    Mat 4:5 Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
    Mat 4:6 and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'"
    Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"
    Mat 4:8 Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;
    Mat 4:9 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."
    Mat 4:10 Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"
    Mat 4:11 Then the devil *left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.
    Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus heard that John had been taken into custody, He withdrew into Galilee;
    Mat 4:13 and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali.
    Mat 4:14 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:
    Mat 4:15 "THE LAND OF ZEBULUN AND THE LAND OF NAPHTALI, BY THE WAY OF THE SEA, BEYOND THE JORDAN, GALILEE OF THE GENTILES–
    Mat 4:16 "THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING IN DARKNESS SAW A GREAT LIGHT, AND THOSE WHO WERE SITTING IN THE LAND AND SHADOW OF DEATH, UPON THEM A LIGHT DAWNED."
    Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. Merry Christmas has been taken away how much more is everyone going to let these losers limit the majority and those who know the truth. Its not only about gays but about socialism about the very same people we see here wanting to change the very fabric of society and not giving a dam about anyone else. wake up start voicing your opinion. They are not afraid to get up and insult us but we cannot do the same. Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth.

    Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
    Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

    Yeah
    You know what makes you a real looser is that in your supposed fight for gay rights you have to do it by destroying what the Bible says. You cant fight in real ways and come to a true understanding of what you are doing and talking about but choose to distort the Bible and to lie and bend the words and meanings and side with anyone that would do the same.You have no comprehension of what the Bile says, because you don't read it you just arbitrarily decided that it is against gays or atheists so you will set out to destroy it and other peoples faith in any method possible. If you will do this to a book that is respected by many people misquote any scripture and quote people who do the same in a attempt to exploit their mistakes then you are not to be trusted. The Type of personality that wants to win no matter what without regard to truth and the caring of those that know the truth and believe the truth, possibly hurting new believers. This is what most have come to expect from the gays and the groups that support them. In actuality its not most of the gays but people like you who use their supposed inequality to support their own personal agenda a winner takes all damned to the rest type of mentality. That makes you a looser because you don't even profess to be gay. I don't know if you are or aren't or maybe just another atheist or with a axe to grind I don't think you are even a US citizen to do this perverted thing. What you and others are doing is wrong on so many levels that you would have to question your very sanity that you think its just fun and games to destroy such revered truth and support those that do the same. Many win by true methods by not lying and distorting things but let the truth win out you are not that person. You hide behind lies told by many others and support them fully and propagate your own or repost lies told by people in deceptions and don't understand basic truth like a animal that does things on instinct just destroying for the sake of it in hopes to destroy enough that they can change things to be more suited to themselves.

    I will explain something to you that you also may not care about but it will be one of the reasons people dont want gay marriage. Our leaders lie all the time one small lie may not amount to much but many on many lies do and that is one thing that got us in the situation we are now. Well God has blessings for those people that do things His way. I am one of those people who do believe this, History has basically bared this out also. So if you dont do the things that God says to do you dont receive the blessings ,most such as yourself see this and say God is unjust because He is making all the bad things in the world and the US happen, which is incorrect. You have a choice to believe or not just as I do that is will,, God will not override your will and wants to bless you but just like a father that you disobeyed it may not always work out the way that you thought it would but your father knew how it would work out. God says I have set before you life and death and then tells us to choose life, we are so stupid to make the wrong choice so He has to tell us what to choose. He also gave us free will and dominion of this world. Gay marriage like abortion and so many other things are wrong according to the Bible. It will never be right and I want the blessings of God on each one of us and this nation. We are allowing so many wrong things, the list is to long to go into and I know things were better in the past. It is since all this liberty and everyone is ok that it has basically become a sewer of just one piece of sh it on top of another. I dont like many of the things I see today not only because I know that they are wrong but I know where they lead. I have not seen improvements in this country I have seen good called bad and bad called good and leading to the path of destruction. Even if you dont believe we who do know that it is for the good of the country and all people that we do and want those blessings on everyone here. America could still be the greatest country in the world but it will not happen by men or any socialist regime, it will be a act of God. We have seen the choices men have made and they have been bad in most cases. As witnessed the founders of this country said our laws are holy inadequate for a non moralistic society and we see that today. So you may not agree but what I have told you is truth and you may or may not understand it.

    Lev 18:12 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's blood relative.
    Lev 18:13 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's blood relative.
    Lev 18:14 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother; you shall not approach his wife, she is your aunt.
    Lev 18:15 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
    Lev 18:16 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
    Lev 18:17 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness.
    Lev 18:18 'You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness.
    Lev 18:19 'Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity.
    Lev 18:20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
    Lev 18:21 'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD.
    Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Lev 18:23 'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.

    Well presented with the truth you just cant accept it ?? I guess to you guys lying is a way of life when you want to get your way. I have heard you say that its normal,, you cant change,,, and that everyone agrees ,,,well this out of the DSM says you guys are liars!!!!
    Similarly, by no longer listing it as a psy disorder we are not saying that it is "normal" or as valuable as hetero.
    Modern methods of treatment enable a significant proportion of h0m0 who wish to change their orientation to do so. At the same time, h0mo who are bothered by or in conflict with their S feelings but who are either uninterested in changing, or unable to change, their S orientation can be helped to accept themselves as they are and to rid themselves of self-hatred.
    Its purpose is
    not to list and describe all of the forms of human psyc functioning which are judged by the profession or
    some members of the profession as less than optimal. Nor is its purpose to imply certainty about the nature of
    conditions when there is,,,, not a consensus in the profession.,,,,,,
    What will be the effect of carrying out such a proposal? No doubt,,,,,,, h0m0 activist groups will claim that
    psyc has at last recognized that h0m0 is as "normal" as hetero They will be wrong. In
    removing h0m0 per se from the nomenclature we are only recognizing that by itself h0m0 does
    not meet the criteria for being considered a psychiatric disorder. We will in no way be aligning ourselves with any
    particular viewpoint regarding the etiology or desirability of h0m0 behavior
    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter
    Know the truth and the truth will set you free!!!

    ABOUT this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.

    Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. Merry Christmas has been taken away how much more is everyone going to let these losers limit the majority and those who know the truth. Its not only about gays but about socialism about the very same people we see here wanting to change the very fabric of society and not giving a dam about anyone else. wake up start voicing your opinion. They are not afraid to get up and insult us but we cannot do the same. Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth.

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    John also says that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was no hospitality this is totally bogus, in fact their sin was the very same thing we see today that's why he cant see clearly that they were sinners before the Lord exceedingly, guilty of the most notorious crimes, and addicted to the most scandalous and unnatural lusts that can be thought of; and these they committed openly and publicly in the sight of God, in the most daring and impudent manner, and in defiance of him, without any fear or shame. The Targum of Jonathan reckons up many of their sins, as defrauding of one another in their substance, sinning in their bodies, unclean copulation, shedding of innocent blood, worshiping of idols, and rebelling against the name of the Lord. Isaiah 3 verse 9. it will reveal the truth to you. John is gay pastor and now you understand why people of sin should not be in ministry.

    In the US many states have adopted close-in-age exemptions. These laws, known as "Romeo and Juliet laws" provide that a person can legally have consensual intercourse with a minor provided that he or she is not more than a given number of years older generally four years but sometimes some other number of years Romeo and Juliet laws were passed Several ped membership org endorsed lowering or abolishing age of consent laws to legalize fleshly activities involving an adult and a child. As one of their arguments to lower or abolish the age of consent, members of ped advocacy groups promoted their belief that children are phych capable of consenting to intimate situations with adults and they often portrayed themselves as fighting for the right of children to engage in what the activists consider to be consensual intercourse with adults. Another issue has been h0m0 vs. hetero relationships. These efforts vary greatly in intensity and popularity, and have manifested in a variety of forms, such as legislation for close-in-age exemptions to age of consent laws, advocacy to change the way age of consent laws are examined in court, to lower the age limits, and reduce related penalties.
    This I posted is from WIki so there can be no dispute as to authenticity and truth I can always post up to date info about groups and such. So How are you going to call this lies now???? You can look for yourself

    Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virg=inia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.
    I

    The answer they want is to change the law based on the principle that reality is defined by the will of individuals, but here, you see, is the slight of hand. The appeal now being made for h0m0 marriage rights is not an appeal for lawmakers to reconsider past decisions about similarities and differences between hetero and h0m0 relationships. Rather, it is an appeal for lawmakers to ignore those differences in order not to deny citizens the right to call things what they want to call them. It is a version of an appeal for the protection of free speech, and in this case it is a demand that the speech of particular persons carry the authority to define the structure of reality without regard to the basis of past decisions. The anti discrimination principle is appealed to not in order to show that some married couples have previously been denied the recognition of their marriage. Rather the anti discrimination principle is being used to ask that no citizen be denied the right to call something what he or she wants to call it. If h0m0 relationships are, in this manner, legally recognized as marriages, no realities will change. Hetero marriage partners will still be able to engage in inter course and procreate children; h0m0 partners will still not be able to engage in such intercourse. Pregnancy will still be possible only by implanting a male sperm in a female egg, whether that is done by inter course inside or outside of marriage, The only thing that will change is that the law will mistakenly use the word "marriage" to refer to two different kinds of se intimate human relationships. If this happens, we will need to pay close attention to the consequences

    Officials will be required to recognize as a marriage any fleshly Intimate bond between two people who want to call themselves married. Which means that there will no longer be any basis for deciding legally between a hetero union and a h0m0 relationship. Which means that there will be no legal basis for restrictions against a h0m0 couple obtaining children in any way they choose, for such restrictions would be discrimination. And it will mean that when a mature mother and son, or father and daughter, or trio or quartet of partners comes to the courts or to the marriage bureau to ask that their fleshly active relationship be recognized as marriage, there will be no legal grounds to reject the requests. Because it would be now unjust to recognize hetero marriage as something exclusive and different from h0m0 relationships, then it will be unjust not to grant the request of other partners to call their fleshly intimate relationships marriage. This is being coupled with the lowering of the age of consent to 12 so you will in essence be able to marry and have intercourse with children. This is the ultimate goal of the gay agenda to change the very fabric of society to allow any form of fleshly expression.

    Yeah s is a liar and fraud not to mention atheist, I have explained in the past and a fact that you have not refuted that the APA description of what it considers a illness has changed not that gays diagnosis has changed and the definition is that if you don't have a problem being gay then there is no problem. Also there have been no studies either that can refute the old studies that you say are biased but prove H0m0 s have quite a few
    problems.

    In the manufacturing process some will be defective and taken off the production line. Its the law of percentages. That is a normal occurrence but if you allowed the defective product to go out into the public then that would be a product out in public's hands that doesn't work as its supposed to that is not normal. This is how they get around calling gays normal. That there will be a certain amount of defective product is normal but that the product doesn't work like it should is not normal. Out of all the births to have some gay is normal but that they are gay is not normal. Just like having some birth defects among all the births is normal but those with the birth defects are not a normal physical variance. This is physical, but being h0m0 is something that is unseen unproven able to be cured in most cases and behavior issue that has a bad record of social problems.

    Could be thousands they are still deceived and will when the final day comes receive there dues
    “He shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord.”
    - Mic_5:4
    Christ’s reign in his Church is that of a shepherd-king. He has supremacy, but it is the superiority of a wise and tender shepherd over his needy and loving flock; he commands and receives obedience, but it is the willing obedience of the well-cared-for sheep, rendered joyfully to their beloved Shepherd, whose voice they know so well. He rules by the force of love and the energy of goodness.
    His reign is practical in its character. It is said, “He shall stand and feed.” The great Head of the Church is actively engaged in providing for his people. He does not sit down upon the throne in empty state, or hold a sceptre without wielding it in government. No, he stands and feeds. The expression “feed,” in the original, is like an analogous one in the Greek, which means to shepherdize, to do everything expected of a shepherd: to guide, to watch, to preserve, to restore, to tend, as well as to feed.
    His reign is continual in its duration. It is said, “He shall stand and feed”; not “He shall feed now and then, and leave his position”; not, “He shall one day grant a revival, and then next day leave his Church to barrenness.” His eyes never slumber, and his hands never rest; his heart never ceases to beat with love, and his shoulders are never weary of carrying his people’s burdens.
    His reign is effectually powerful in its action; “He shall feed in the strength of Jehovah.” Wherever Christ is, there is God; and whatever Christ does is the act of the Most High. Oh! it is a joyful truth to consider that he who stands to-day representing the interests of his people is very God of very God, to whom every knee shall bow. Happy are we who belong to such a shepherd, whose humanity communes with us, and whose divinity protects us. Let us worship and bow down before him as the people of his pasture.

    January 17, 2013 at 8:08 pm |
  6. Lone Ranger

    he huge amount of change in s@x orientation is one of the clearest evidences that h0m0 is not hard-wired by genes or anything in the bio environment.Large studies now show that For adults About half of those with exclusive SSA move towards hetero over a lifetime. Put another way, 3% of the practicing hetero population both men and women claim to have once been either bi or h0m0 These changes are not ther-a-peut-ically induced, some very quickly. Most changes in or-ien-ta-tion are towards exclusive hetero. Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive OSA are greater than current numbers of bis and exclusive SSA is same-s@x attraction; OSA opposite s@x attraction.SSA people combined. In other words, Ex-gays outnumber actual gays. Exclusive OSA is 17 times as stable as exclusive SSA for men,and 30 times as stable as exclusive SSA for women. Women move about more in their orientation than men..
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    ..Modern methods of treatment enable a significant proportion of h0m0 who wish to change their orientation to do so. At the same time, h0mo who are bothered by or in conflict with their S feelings but who are either uninterested in changing, or unable to change, their S orientation can be helped to accept themselves as they are and to rid themselves of self-hatred.
    Its purpose is
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    Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
    Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

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    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    I don't go by trends because trends come and go, I don't live in a vacuum either. I have seen too many human failings and all say they know best yet fall on their face. But I have not seen those who put faith in the Lord fall and not get up. I have seen drug addicts accept the Lord and never do drugs again, The same with every addiction and perversion out there. some lives a terrible train wreck and they make the decision to accept the Lord and you would not recognize some of them today. I have seen families reunited with a word from the Lord. so you want me to accept something that I have never seen good come out of? Something that the Lord says is no good? To me that is where I will put my trust not in the whims of man or atheists that don't know and don't have answers. You only know a limited amount because you don’t know the spirit and think it foolish, a side of life I know well. God is a spirit. All churches should welcome gays but not perform gay marriage. A church is supposed to be a hospital and training center if they throw out the people who need the Lord then why are they here. But they cannot bend the rules gay is a sin just like any other sin but the church doesn't indulge sin it casts it out. God can change anyone it’s just how close do you want to be and will you give up what He wants you to. I would think gays knowing what the Bible says about gay copulation would strive to follow the Bible rather than subvert it so that the full blessings of God would be received. If a church does marry gays and knowing the Bible condemns this if it were me I would say that I wouldn't want to be a part of a club that bends the rules to accept me. I am what I am God accepts me and I don't try to subvert the Bible but try to live it and I want all the gifts and good things God has for me. The churches that are the money grubbers and liars are the ones that accept gay marriage how good can that church be if it will lie about its own doctrine? Why would anyone want to try just to feel good rather than let God make you feel good and remove the condemnation Himself? Man cannot remove what Gods law has ordained but God can make a person live comfortably in His law. This is the experience that is denied those that tickle their ears or listen to people who say God won’t accept them. He came for the sinners but He said REPENT or go and sin no more. You can love someone but not accept their lifestyle. As Jesus loved the sinners and saints He didn’t bend what God told Him to do but wept at the loss of a soul. If i have to live on the fringes of society or be the voice of one crying in the wilderness so be it. I would rather be that one and have nothing on the outward than to have everything on the outward and lose my relationship with God. I could have bit the dust several times in my life and it was the Lords protection that brought me through so where do you think my loyalty is going to be?
    .
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    .

    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    January 17, 2013 at 8:07 pm |
  7. Lone Ranger

    he huge amount of change in s@x orientation is one of the clearest evidences that h0m0 is not hard-wired by genes or anything in the bio environment.Large studies now show that For adults About half of those with exclusive SSA move towards hetero over a lifetime. Put another way, 3% of the practicing hetero population both men and women claim to have once been either bi or h0m0 These changes are not ther-a-peut-ically induced, some very quickly. Most changes in or-ien-ta-tion are towards exclusive hetero. Numbers of people who have changed towards exclusive OSA are greater than current numbers of bis and exclusive SSA is same-s@x attraction; OSA opposite s@x attraction.SSA people combined. In other words, Ex-gays outnumber actual gays. Exclusive OSA is 17 times as stable as exclusive SSA for men,and 30 times as stable as exclusive SSA for women. Women move about more in their orientation than men..
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    ..Modern methods of treatment enable a significant proportion of h0m0 who wish to change their orientation to do so. At the same time, h0mo who are bothered by or in conflict with their S feelings but who are either uninterested in changing, or unable to change, their S orientation can be helped to accept themselves as they are and to rid themselves of self-hatred.
    Its purpose is
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    Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
    Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
    Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
    Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
    Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
    Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

    22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

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    .

    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    I don't go by trends because trends come and go, I don't live in a vacuum either. I have seen too many human failings and all say they know best yet fall on their face. But I have not seen those who put faith in the Lord fall and not get up. I have seen drug addicts accept the Lord and never do drugs again, The same with every addiction and perversion out there. some lives a terrible train wreck and they make the decision to accept the Lord and you would not recognize some of them today. I have seen families reunited with a word from the Lord. so you want me to accept something that I have never seen good come out of? Something that the Lord says is no good? To me that is where I will put my trust not in the whims of man or atheists that don't know and don't have answers. You only know a limited amount because you don’t know the spirit and think it foolish, a side of life I know well. God is a spirit. All churches should welcome gays but not perform gay marriage. A church is supposed to be a hospital and training center if they throw out the people who need the Lord then why are they here. But they cannot bend the rules gay is a sin just like any other sin but the church doesn't indulge sin it casts it out. God can change anyone it’s just how close do you want to be and will you give up what He wants you to. I would think gays knowing what the Bible says about gay copulation would strive to follow the Bible rather than subvert it so that the full blessings of God would be received. If a church does marry gays and knowing the Bible condemns this if it were me I would say that I wouldn't want to be a part of a club that bends the rules to accept me. I am what I am God accepts me and I don't try to subvert the Bible but try to live it and I want all the gifts and good things God has for me. The churches that are the money grubbers and liars are the ones that accept gay marriage how good can that church be if it will lie about its own doctrine? Why would anyone want to try just to feel good rather than let God make you feel good and remove the condemnation Himself? Man cannot remove what Gods law has ordained but God can make a person live comfortably in His law. This is the experience that is denied those that tickle their ears or listen to people who say God won’t accept them. He came for the sinners but He said REPENT or go and sin no more. You can love someone but not accept their lifestyle. As Jesus loved the sinners and saints He didn’t bend what God told Him to do but wept at the loss of a soul. If i have to live on the fringes of society or be the voice of one crying in the wilderness so be it. I would rather be that one and have nothing on the outward than to have everything on the outward and lose my relationship with God. I could have bit the dust several times in my life and it was the Lords protection that brought me through so where do you think my loyalty is going to be?
    .
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    .

    Ok line up three men and look at them intently. One is gay one is straight and one is a ped now look at them carefully can you see what makes them different. NO I didn’t think so but this is the hoax that the agenda wants you to believe. That there is a difference. Well now line up three men and they are all straight. See a difference even though one likes beer one likes alcohol and one doesn’t like to drink at all. No I didn’t think so ok now line up a person with a birth defect and one that doesn’t have one do you see a difference yes I can see the difference. The agenda wants you to believe that we are supposed to be able to pick out and say that a s=ual desire is easily spotted, normal , and physical but it is not. What makes one person like coffee and another not physcs cannot tell you. So what is the solution call them all normal and variants on being normal. Now when we see how these people act and the decisions they make then we see if they are normal. The men’s S-ual desires are all different and reflect a preference not built into genes just like the preference for beer wine or nothing. The agenda and atheists also want to say it is a normal variation which it is not. Just as the person with the birth defect doesn’t look the same the decisions we make because of our desires look that much different. Even in the Bible birth defects happened such as the sacrifices that the Jews started to bring had defects and God said that it was not right so it is with people of the wrong preference. It is a decision based on a s=ual desire not a physical difference in that person’s body. They do happen it’s not good sometimes but it does happen now we say that it is normal in the course of the birth process that we will wind up with some babies that are not normal and have birth defects but this is a normal percentage not a normal outcome. This is what the gays and atheists would like you to believe that just because there is a frequency of birth defects that it makes them normal. But in this case we can see they are not normal but in the case of the three men other than the outward differences in hair or eye color we cannot see any difference. Wait till one speaks or moves or makes decisions based on what they like and now you see the result of differences in the desire of each although each has all the same equipment. Phycs pulled this slight of hand because they didn’t feel that they could establish what is normal. They lost the moral compass to establish what is normal and should be accepted. the basis for this was looking at how different people act and knowing that some will act differently they said this is a normal person based on the percentages, Not based on the differences that makes a persons decisions. So they said we know that there are people out there with this problem they make up a percentage of the population therefore if they can function with a defect we will treat them when they feel they have a problem. Now the fact that the percentages of problems are much higher with the gays is no secret. There is no stat that is in favor of gays. The atheists and the agenda hold up the successful ones but that percentage is so small that its probably less that a 1/10th of 1 percent. You compare these stats to the amount of people who are straight and have a good life and you will see something like 60 percent of say billions of people . So the shear number of straights the percentages will be different you have to take into account the number of people you are talking about and the percentage in order to come up with a true number. This is also a slight of hand by the gays and atheists.
    The goals of the gays atheists and socialist all work pretty well together. But it is not the society that anyone is used to even the kids that grownup today with much looser morals that when I was younger will not recognize the US that these people want to transform it into. This is not even talking about the heritage of the US that will be thrown out the window or the blessings of God on this great nation. So when you see that these people want to change the very fabric of society look at some examples we have of when that has happened. Rome. Sodom and Gomorrah and most free people when moral guide lines were lost led to the decay and destruction of society. Just because we see countries with some of these things accepted doesn’t mean that it is good. You have to look back see the changes and project forward to see what will become of this nation. It is not one generation it takes many. Just like the 60s the courts took morals out of the schools now we have TV programs with unwed 16 year old mothers. The decision hence the result just like the gays just like the path of this country. There is no society that once starting down this road didn’t lead to the destruction of that society.
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    January 17, 2013 at 8:06 pm |
    • Lone Ranger

      Same-gender activists took over the podium and microphones. Then, “Konstantin Berlandt, of Berkeley GLF, paraded through the hall in bright red dress. Paper airplanes sailed down from the balcony. With two papers still unread, the chairman announced adjournment.” On June 23, 70 same-gender activists disrupted yet another meeting, this time in Chicago, be repeatedly shouting down the main speakers discourse. Then, in October at a meeting at the University of Southern California, same-gender activists shouted down a speaker and then took over the stage and the microphone

      How can any business that is divided against itself survive, it CAN’T, yet we have the APA that ones that in 73 approved gays off the DSM deeply divided on gay marriage. When the vote came up in 73 they couldn’t protect themselves from being physically harassed they also only had 10 percent of the membership in attendance and the gays got the mailing list and lied and made deceitful letters stating to take gays off the DSM and had letters sent to all the members stating to make a decision in favor of removing gays off the DSM. The Physcs had no idea that the letter was from the gay agenda and took it as letter from their colleges. After the decision a big portion of their membership left the organization and it almost folded. The head of the agenda said that was one of the biggest factors that had the gays taken off the DSM. Today we see the major difference of opinion from Physcs about gay marriage and we see the same activism by the agenda going on. I can’t imagine a unwieldy group trying to stop and make a business do what they want by physical force. They would be arrested that taken away to jail but the APA couldn’t do this small thing and yet deeply divided today are trying to make policy on gay marriage, peds and alike. Phycs like all others professionals are taught not to air out disagreements in public yet we see major cracks in the consistency and uniformity of this and other organizations about gay marriage that the gays don’t want you to know about. We cant even get good unbiased consistent studies to either confirm or deny the gay marriage.

      Yeah maybe you better stick to the cut and paste that you know
      Jud 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
      Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
      Jud 1:8 Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority, and revile angelic majesties.
      Jud 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
      Jud 1:10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
      Jud 1:11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
      Jud 1:12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted;
      Jud 1:13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever.
      Jud 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,
      Jud 1:15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
      Jud 1:16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.

      you like most the ones that side with the gays are so biased that you believe all the bs the small minority of your group vomits out. This is a prime example, how the hell could all the scholars down through the ages be wrong about Sodom and Gomorrah? If any of the so called 100 pastors had even cracked the Bible with a ounce of understanding and not been so deluded that they couldn't see the facts as clear as the nose on their face then maybe we would know that they are liars or deceived or just trying to destroy a society that was at one time great. Truth for the gay agenda is not truth but lie upon lie upon lie and mixed with drama and more lies and the worst studies ever put out by so called science. Even to the point the APA doesn't have a clue, there is no agreement among the people who belong and those that did belong have quit because of all the bs that is happening it really reflects a agency in trouble big trouble. If they cannot consistently agree among themselves and establish cohesive policies that all can agree with then how are we going to believe them? There isn't enough money out there to do a real study when its done and shows problems with gays then they attack, so who in their right mind would want to do one.

      Yeah you are trully a pimple on the butt of society I have given passage after passage of proof and you have come up with nothing nada zilch just the same cut and paste from someone else. Your not original, creative, intelligent, and just a plain yuck. You have the same old tired dribble that you post, what a waste, you are truly the reason this post goes on too because you are so stupid that you keep posting the same garbage and all the posts have new information that makes you look bad. You quote gay sources and gay people no wonder you are so bias you cant even think properly. As for condemning gays they tried to distort the Bible to have acceptance of their ways but there isn't any so gays including yourself dont like it. As for using it to condemn gays it always has it just that a man from the APA decided to lie and distort the truth, thats the problem moron.You side with man and hope he wins, well he may win the battle but he will lose the war. You cant fool all of the poeple all of the time they do have a brain and will wake up to this bs you post, thats what it is about awaking the sleeper and you are helping for that thanks.

      As I think about the back and forth that is happening here I am wish sometimes that God was like the big corporations that if you violated the contract terms of employment that you would be fired. This is a immediate and noticeable rebuff that you did or said something wrong. But then I also remember that none would probably make it into heaven. But God doesn’t work this way and its not until the very end of our life that most really realize the mistakes they have done in life. The Bible promises us that the rewards and punishments will be waiting for us. When I became a Christian I looked at the contract between me and God and understood by faith the agreement and understood that I would break that agreement at times and also have forgiveness when I did. This was done by faith in the work that God did through Jesus. But I always knew the rules and what to live by and if something happened in my life the Spirit would remind me that I needed to ask forgiveness or make amends. I never wanted to change the rules in the Bible because even if you change words you will not change the rewards or punishment. I also know that I wanted a solid guide to meditate on and think about that would lead me to a greater knowledge of who I serve. I know I can’t live to the standards that God has set and no man can but I have faith in Him, I don’t need to bend or change the rules. Heck if I did it would only add more confusion which I want less of. I am not God either I wouldn’t dream of having the disrespect of changing His Word. Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. The other thing is He looks after His word to make sure it performs all that He intended it to. God has made time and made all the things of this world how amazing is it that those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt rather than embrace the word so that it would do what it is supposed to do. That is drive us to God in hopes of redemption and a life with Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith not the Bible. God is not the Bible but the Bible is a piece of God. I love the word I love the promises of God I love the revelation of God to His own. He is not dead and He still does move in the lives of those that know Him. It’s not about religion but relationship. I would say this the Christian religion is based upon the Bible if you don’t like the words of the Bible and feel condemned why don’t you go make your own religion instead of trying to basterdise Christianity. But its all about feelings isn’t it, and if you feel bad then it must be bad but that is the farthest from the truth sometimes. To change how you feel sometimes we have to change how we act and the standard that shows us is the Bible. Have faith He is faithful and able to complete a good work in us. That is what matters if you don’t pin point the problem then you will never come to the solution. The rewards that I have receive far outweigh anything that I may have had to give up

      I also find 2 other things interesting about the gay agenda they call it gay pride well that was the reason God destroyed Sodom thats also the reason they could revile angelic majesty,because of pride. Why also did the gays have to take the symbol of the rainbow as their symbol. The very thing God said He gave the world as a sign that He would not flood it ever again. The devil counterfeits everything God has. God has a star the devil has a pentagram, God is light the devil comes as a angel of light. Is it just coincidence?

      So in the first place I thought that if you were hetero then you liked women how is it that they were hetero and gay??? How do you explain the fact that they would not take lots daughters to mean that they were passing by women in favor of men that sure sounds gay to me.
      Next there are 47 verses that mention Sodom so you missed a few and what do you think Gods definition of immorality is?? As for the timing of the angels yes Sodom was already judged and the fact that the men didnt take Lots daughters signifies that they didnt want women. Also some of what Sodom was judged for was being gay and that it is a abomination to God.Although these paragraphs do not mention Sodom they do say what God thinks is a abomination and it followed the path that they and you laid down for Sodom. So it gives us a picture of how evil goes and it follows the descriptions of Sodom.
      Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
      Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
      Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
      Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
      Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
      Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
      Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
      Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
      Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
      Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
      Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
      Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
      About this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.
      This was from Josephus so you don't even have to interpret the Bible I have made it easy for you there is no guessing thank you for showing us how the twisting of the Bible is done. When Jesus was up on the mountain and the devil tempted Him with the three questions Im sure if you didn't know the word of God they would sound good too. But when you know the word you dont twist it and if you do you really have to question if that person is really a Christian and of their very Salvation. I will post on the rest thank you for this opertunity to explaiin the Bible to those that may have never heard these things before.

      What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than agreeing with the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

      What amazes me is that time and time again it has been proven that there is no way the Bible says ok for gay relations but rather than accepting the truth they try to distort it. I would say this is like everything they do they cant just accept the truth and move on with it. Why would you trust someone that cant move on without distorting the truth? You accept the truth and either live with it or change thats it there is no other choice.

      Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make human beings in Our image, to be like Us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground."
      Gen 1:27 So God created human beings in His own image. In the image of God He created them; male and female He created them.
      Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground."
      Gen 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib, and He brought her to the man.
      Gen 2:23 "At last!" the man exclaimed. "This one is bone from my bone, and flesh from my flesh! She will be called 'woman,' because she was taken from 'man.'"
      Gen 2:24 This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.
      Gen 2:25 Now the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame.
      Gen_2:24 This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.
      Eph 5:31 As the Scriptures say, "A man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one."
      Mar 10:7 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife,
      Mar 10:8 and the two are united into one.' Since they are no longer two but one,
      Mar 10:9 let no one split apart what God has joined together."

      Below are the first few verses that will put the whole thing in context just like today David and alike are trying to tell us that gays marriage and gay fornication is ok which is a lie and once you read this you can continue to read the rest.
      Jud 1:3 Dear friends, I had been eagerly planning to write to you about the salvation we all share. But now I find that I must write about something else, urging you to defend the faith that God has entrusted once for all time to His holy people.
      Jud 1:4 I say this because some ungodly people have wormed their way into your churches, saying that God's marvelous grace allows us to live,,,, immoral lives..... The condemnation of such people was recorded long ago, for they have denied our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
      ud 1:5 So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt, but later He destroyed those who did not remain faithful.
      Jud 1:6 And I remind you of the angels who did not stay within the limits of authority God gave them but left the place where they belonged. God has kept them securely chained in prisons of darkness, waiting for the great day of judgment.
      Jud 1:7 And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of
      syx perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment.
      He used examples of the angels to tell the people what would happen to those that would use Gods grace as a license to sin. As the people in Sodom and Gomorrah did also.

      The fact that these men hoped to have relations with the angels and that never happened nor could happen and that the angels didn't have flesh as we know it and that the city was already judged because the men in the past had gone "past tense even" after strange flesh would make it the fact that they had already done this act before the angels even appeared. It also said revile angelic majesties which would mean that in this occasion they were so blinded by their lust that they repulsed or assailed the angels no where did it state that there was intercourse or that it was even a option. So no where did it state that angels came into Sodom before this so these men would not have any hope or understanding of mating with angles. So we are understanding that the term strange flesh is in fact gay relations.

      As I think about the back and forth that is happening here I am wish sometimes that God was like the big corporations that if you violated the contract terms of employment that you would be fired. This is a immediate and noticeable rebuff that you did or said something wrong. But then I also remember that none would probably make it into heaven. But God doesn’t work this way and its not until the very end of our life that most really realize the mistakes they have done in life. The Bible promises us that the rewards and punishments will be waiting for us. When I became a Christian I looked at the contract between me and God and understood by faith the agreement and understood that I would break that agreement at times and also have forgiveness when I did. This was done by faith in the work that God did through Jesus. But I always knew the rules and what to live by and if something happened in my life the Spirit would remind me that I needed to ask forgiveness or make amends. I never wanted to change the rules in the Bible because even if you change words you will not change the rewards or punishment. I also know that I wanted a solid guide to meditate on and think about that would lead me to a greater knowledge of who I serve. I know I can’t live to the standards that God has set and no man can but I have faith in Him, I don’t need to bend or change the rules. Heck if I did it would only add more confusion which I want less of. I am not God either I wouldn’t dream of having the disrespect of changing His Word. Really if you change His word you are trying to change Jesus who is the Word. The other thing is He looks after His word to make sure it performs all that He intended it to. God has made time and made all the things of this world how amazing is it that those that would try to distort the Bible would do so to alleviate their own guilt rather than embrace the word so that it would do what it is supposed to do. That is drive us to God in hopes of redemption and a life with Him. He is the author and finisher of our faith not the Bible. God is not the Bible but the Bible is a piece of God. I love the word I love the promises of God I love the revelation of God to His own. He is not dead and He still does move in the lives of those that know Him. It’s not about religion but relationship. I would say this the Christian religion is based upon the Bible if you don’t like the words of the Bible and feel condemned why don’t you go make your own religion instead of trying to basterdise Christianity. But its all about feelings isn’t it, and if you feel bad then it must be bad but that is the farthest from the truth sometimes. To change how you feel sometimes we have to change how we act and the standard that shows us is the Bible. Have faith He is faithful and able to complete a good work in us. That is what matters if you don’t pin point the problem then you will never come to the solution. The rewards that I have receive far outweigh anything that I may have had to give up. Anyone who comes on this site can see the logic put up and distortions that are tried to be put as fact. Be prepared for this as it will get worse since those talked about here dont really know what the Bible says and continue to post other peoples wrong ideas and lies about what it says.

      "Temptation" is a fierce and frightening word. In the Greek it means to destroy by degrees; it means to place someone under the peril of intense and gradual stress. In some cases it may mean "to test" in the positive sense, but it is made all the more intense in the way it is used in the New Testament where the words context is not positive, but clearly hostile.
      TEMPTATION and Its SOURCE: the peril of temptation is not the same as the danger of a frontal attack by an enemy who has openly announced his motives: "your destruction." Instead of such an open challenge, this temptation is a much more subtle kind of stress that encourages its victims to make their own false moves so that in the end they destroy themselves. It is a temptation because its goal is not to test skill but rather to bring harm. With this temptation it looks as if a person who is tempted destroyed himself. Temptation is usually not aimed at physical harm; it is usually designed to cause moral harm. In John 6 Jesus asked His disciples how they would feed the 5,000. This was not to discredit them but to cause them to think "faith." When Andrew found the boy with the lunch it was not an answer in itself but a means to an end, the miraculous feeding of the crowd. This did not destroy the disciples. They were permanently conditioned to think "faith." This was the positive use of this word but temptation is altogether different. According to the Bible, temptation is always evil. In Matthew 4:3 the devil is called "the tempter." The "question" that intends to arrange for another person's self destruction, or the physical "adventure" that draws a person into harm's way are both acts of temptation. Regardless of how pure or innocent they may appear, the fact is, they originated in hell and will be judged by God for what they are and not how they appear.

      That is the problem isn't it you think that there are many interpretations to Gods word. Well there isn't, you would like there to be just like Jesus and the three temptations on the mountain. But if you are filled with the Spirit then there is one interpretation of the Bible. Why do you think Jesus talked in parables? So that people like you would not be able to understand the true kingdom of God. Men can say anything they want, just like the devil here misinterprets scripture and Jesus corrects him. You and your lot do the same as the devil so if you act the same then where did you come from? It is beauty, wholeness and peace to live the Word rather than to distort it to accommodate a personal view.
      Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
      Mat 4:2 And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry.
      Mat 4:3 And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
      Mat 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"
      Mat 4:5 Then the devil *took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple,
      Mat 4:6 and *said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'"
      Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, 'YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"
      Mat 4:8 Again, the devil *took Him to a very high mountain and *showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory;
      Mat 4:9 and he said to Him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me."
      Mat 4:10 Then Jesus *said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, 'YOU SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD YOUR GOD, AND SERVE HIM ONLY.'"
      Mat 4:11 Then the devil *left Him; and behold, angels came and began to minister to Him.
      Mat 4:12 Now when Jesus heard that John had been taken into custody, He withdrew into Galilee;
      Mat 4:13 and leaving Nazareth, He came and settled in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali.
      Mat 4:14 This was to fulfill what was spoken through Isaiah the prophet:
      Mat 4:15 "THE LAND OF ZEBULUN AND THE LAND OF NAPHTALI, BY THE WAY OF THE SEA, BEYOND THE JORDAN, GALILEE OF THE GENTILES–
      Mat 4:16 "THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING IN DARKNESS SAW A GREAT LIGHT, AND THOSE WHO WERE SITTING IN THE LAND AND SHADOW OF DEATH, UPON THEM A LIGHT DAWNED."
      Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

      Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. Merry Christmas has been taken away how much more is everyone going to let these losers limit the majority and those who know the truth. Its not only about gays but about socialism about the very same people we see here wanting to change the very fabric of society and not giving a dam about anyone else. wake up start voicing your opinion. They are not afraid to get up and insult us but we cannot do the same. Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth.

      Leviticus 18:22 (KJ21) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
      Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      (RY: iv, LY: vii) 22 “‘You are not to go to bed with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (CEV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 It is disgusting for a man to have s- .ex with another man.
      Leviticus 18:22 (DARBY) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 And thou shalt not lie with mankind as one lieth with a woman: it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (DRA) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind, because it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (ERV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 “Men, you must not have s relations with another man as with a woman. That is a terrible sin!
      Leviticus 18:22 (ESV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (ESVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (GW) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Never have inter-.course with a man as with a woman. It is disgusting.
      Leviticus 18:22 (GNT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable.
      Leviticus 18:22 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (LEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 And you shall not lie with a male as lying with a woman; that is a detestable thing.
      Leviticus 18:22 (MSG) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 "Don't have s- ex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NASB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NCV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 " 'You must not have s relations with a man as you would a woman. That is a hateful sin.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NIRV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 " 'Do not have s- ex with a man as you would have x with a woman. I hate that.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 “‘Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NIV1984) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NIVUK) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 ‘“Do not have s relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NLV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. It is a sinful thing.
      Leviticus 18:22 (NLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 “Do not practice h0m0, having s- ex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
      Leviticus 18:22 (TNIV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 “‘Do not have se relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
      Leviticus 18:22 (WYC) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not be meddled, [(or) mingled,] with a man, by lechery of a woman, for it is abomination. (Thou shalt not be mixed together with a man, like in fleshly coupling with a woman, for it is an abomination.)
      Leviticus 18:22 (YLT) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 `And with a male thou dost not lie as one lieth with a woman; abomination it [is].

      Yeah
      You know what makes you a real looser is that in your supposed fight for gay rights you have to do it by destroying what the Bible says. You cant fight in real ways and come to a true understanding of what you are doing and talking about but choose to distort the Bible and to lie and bend the words and meanings and side with anyone that would do the same.You have no comprehension of what the Bile says, because you don't read it you just arbitrarily decided that it is against gays or atheists so you will set out to destroy it and other peoples faith in any method possible. If you will do this to a book that is respected by many people misquote any scripture and quote people who do the same in a attempt to exploit their mistakes then you are not to be trusted. The Type of personality that wants to win no matter what without regard to truth and the caring of those that know the truth and believe the truth, possibly hurting new believers. This is what most have come to expect from the gays and the groups that support them. In actuality its not most of the gays but people like you who use their supposed inequality to support their own personal agenda a winner takes all damned to the rest type of mentality. That makes you a looser because you don't even profess to be gay. I don't know if you are or aren't or maybe just another atheist or with a axe to grind I don't think you are even a US citizen to do this perverted thing. What you and others are doing is wrong on so many levels that you would have to question your very sanity that you think its just fun and games to destroy such revered truth and support those that do the same. Many win by true methods by not lying and distorting things but let the truth win out you are not that person. You hide behind lies told by many others and support them fully and propagate your own or repost lies told by people in deceptions and don't understand basic truth like a animal that does things on instinct just destroying for the sake of it in hopes to destroy enough that they can change things to be more suited to themselves.

      I will explain something to you that you also may not care about but it will be one of the reasons people dont want gay marriage. Our leaders lie all the time one small lie may not amount to much but many on many lies do and that is one thing that got us in the situation we are now. Well God has blessings for those people that do things His way. I am one of those people who do believe this, History has basically bared this out also. So if you dont do the things that God says to do you dont receive the blessings ,most such as yourself see this and say God is unjust because He is making all the bad things in the world and the US happen, which is incorrect. You have a choice to believe or not just as I do that is will,, God will not override your will and wants to bless you but just like a father that you disobeyed it may not always work out the way that you thought it would but your father knew how it would work out. God says I have set before you life and death and then tells us to choose life, we are so stupid to make the wrong choice so He has to tell us what to choose. He also gave us free will and dominion of this world. Gay marriage like abortion and so many other things are wrong according to the Bible. It will never be right and I want the blessings of God on each one of us and this nation. We are allowing so many wrong things, the list is to long to go into and I know things were better in the past. It is since all this liberty and everyone is ok that it has basically become a sewer of just one piece of sh it on top of another. I dont like many of the things I see today not only because I know that they are wrong but I know where they lead. I have not seen improvements in this country I have seen good called bad and bad called good and leading to the path of destruction. Even if you dont believe we who do know that it is for the good of the country and all people that we do and want those blessings on everyone here. America could still be the greatest country in the world but it will not happen by men or any socialist regime, it will be a act of God. We have seen the choices men have made and they have been bad in most cases. As witnessed the founders of this country said our laws are holy inadequate for a non moralistic society and we see that today. So you may not agree but what I have told you is truth and you may or may not understand it.

      Lev 18:12 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's sister; she is your father's blood relative.
      Lev 18:13 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother's sister, for she is your mother's blood relative.
      Lev 18:14 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's brother; you shall not approach his wife, she is your aunt.
      Lev 18:15 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife, you shall not uncover her nakedness.
      Lev 18:16 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother's wife; it is your brother's nakedness.
      Lev 18:17 'You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and of her daughter, nor shall you take her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; they are blood relatives. It is lewdness.
      Lev 18:18 'You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness.
      Lev 18:19 'Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness during her menstrual impurity.
      Lev 18:20 'You shall not have intercourse with your neighbor's wife, to be defiled with her.
      Lev 18:21 'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD.
      Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
      Lev 18:23 'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.

      Well presented with the truth you just cant accept it ?? I guess to you guys lying is a way of life when you want to get your way. I have heard you say that its normal,, you cant change,,, and that everyone agrees ,,,well this out of the DSM says you guys are liars!!!!
      Similarly, by no longer listing it as a psy disorder we are not saying that it is "normal" or as valuable as hetero.
      Modern methods of treatment enable a significant proportion of h0m0 who wish to change their orientation to do so. At the same time, h0mo who are bothered by or in conflict with their S feelings but who are either uninterested in changing, or unable to change, their S orientation can be helped to accept themselves as they are and to rid themselves of self-hatred.
      Its purpose is
      not to list and describe all of the forms of human psyc functioning which are judged by the profession or
      some members of the profession as less than optimal. Nor is its purpose to imply certainty about the nature of
      conditions when there is,,,, not a consensus in the profession.,,,,,,
      What will be the effect of carrying out such a proposal? No doubt,,,,,,, h0m0 activist groups will claim that
      psyc has at last recognized that h0m0 is as "normal" as hetero They will be wrong. In
      removing h0m0 per se from the nomenclature we are only recognizing that by itself h0m0 does
      not meet the criteria for being considered a psychiatric disorder. We will in no way be aligning ourselves with any
      particular viewpoint regarding the etiology or desirability of h0m0 behavior
      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter
      Know the truth and the truth will set you free!!!

      ABOUT this time the Sodomites grew proud, on account of their riches and great wealth; they became unjust towards men, and impious towards God, insomuch that they did not call to mind the advantages they received from him: they hated strangers, and abused themselves with Sodomitical practices. God was therefore much displeased at them, and determined to punish them for their pride, and to overthrow their city, and to lay waste their country, until there should neither plant nor fruit grow out of it.

      Chick-fil-A spokesman dies amid furor over same-S e marriage Do you see what they are doing that a man that wants to run a business the way he wants has a terror gay organization trying to limit his free speech as well as the city of Chicago wanting to limit him on business permits and saying he cant get a license to run his business and falsely stop a business from going forward. Merry Christmas has been taken away how much more is everyone going to let these losers limit the majority and those who know the truth. Its not only about gays but about socialism about the very same people we see here wanting to change the very fabric of society and not giving a dam about anyone else. wake up start voicing your opinion. They are not afraid to get up and insult us but we cannot do the same. Start to take a active role otherwise Christians will not be able to voice the truth we are the persecuted ones not the gays. The president of Chick only said he was against gay marriage nothing else and this is what happens. What happens to free speech and us being able to speak our mind without ridicule. If intimidation wont work as in San Fransisco and with Chick then we will lie then subvert the Bible if that doesn't work we will do what ever is necessary to achieve our goals. Start by going to this business and supporting all those that are against this use the tactics they use. We see a attacks here and there is no logic no caring no truth.

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (ASV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination.
      Leviticus 18:22 (CEB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      22 You must not have s intercourse with a man as you would with a woman; it is a detestable practice.
      Leviticus 18:22 (CJB) | In Context | Whole Chapter

      John also says that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was no hospitality this is totally bogus, in fact their sin was the very same thing we see today that's why he cant see clearly that they were sinners before the Lord exceedingly, guilty of the most notorious crimes, and addicted to the most scandalous and unnatural lusts that can be thought of; and these they committed openly and publicly in the sight of God, in the most daring and impudent manner, and in defiance of him, without any fear or shame. The Targum of Jonathan reckons up many of their sins, as defrauding of one another in their substance, sinning in their bodies, unclean copulation, shedding of innocent blood, worshiping of idols, and rebelling against the name of the Lord. Isaiah 3 verse 9. it will reveal the truth to you. John is gay pastor and now you understand why people of sin should not be in ministry.

      In the US many states have adopted close-in-age exemptions. These laws, known as "Romeo and Juliet laws" provide that a person can legally have consensual intercourse with a minor provided that he or she is not more than a given number of years older generally four years but sometimes some other number of years Romeo and Juliet laws were passed Several ped membership org endorsed lowering or abolishing age of consent laws to legalize fleshly activities involving an adult and a child. As one of their arguments to lower or abolish the age of consent, members of ped advocacy groups promoted their belief that children are phych capable of consenting to intimate situations with adults and they often portrayed themselves as fighting for the right of children to engage in what the activists consider to be consensual intercourse with adults. Another issue has been h0m0 vs. hetero relationships. These efforts vary greatly in intensity and popularity, and have manifested in a variety of forms, such as legislation for close-in-age exemptions to age of consent laws, advocacy to change the way age of consent laws are examined in court, to lower the age limits, and reduce related penalties.
      This I posted is from WIki so there can be no dispute as to authenticity and truth I can always post up to date info about groups and such. So How are you going to call this lies now???? You can look for yourself

      Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and advancements of the Christian faith and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the Northern parts of Virg=inia, do by these presents, solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic; for our better ordering, and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, and frame, such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the colony; unto which we promise all due submission and obedience.
      I

      The answer they want is to change the law based on the principle that reality is defined by the will of individuals, but here, you see, is the slight of hand. The appeal now being made for h0m0 marriage rights is not an appeal for lawmakers to reconsider past decisions about similarities and differences between hetero and h0m0 relationships. Rather, it is an appeal for lawmakers to ignore those differences in order not to deny citizens the right to call things what they want to call them. It is a version of an appeal for the protection of free speech, and in this case it is a demand that the speech of particular persons carry the authority to define the structure of reality without regard to the basis of past decisions. The anti discrimination principle is appealed to not in order to show that some married couples have previously been denied the recognition of their marriage. Rather the anti discrimination principle is being used to ask that no citizen be denied the right to call something what he or she wants to call it. If h0m0 relationships are, in this manner, legally recognized as marriages, no realities will change. Hetero marriage partners will still be able to engage in inter course and procreate children; h0m0 partners will still not be able to engage in such intercourse. Pregnancy will still be possible only by implanting a male sperm in a female egg, whether that is done by inter course inside or outside of marriage, The only thing that will change is that the law will mistakenly use the word "marriage" to refer to two different kinds of se intimate human relationships. If this happens, we will need to pay close attention to the consequences

      Officials will be required to recognize as a marriage any fleshly Intimate bond between two people who want to call themselves married. Which means that there will no longer be any basis for deciding legally between a hetero union and a h0m0 relationship. Which means that there will be no legal basis for restrictions against a h0m0 couple obtaining children in any way they choose, for such restrictions would be discrimination. And it will mean that when a mature mother and son, or father and daughter, or trio or quartet of partners comes to the courts or to the marriage bureau to ask that their fleshly active relationship be recognized as marriage, there will be no legal grounds to reject the requests. Because it would be now unjust to recognize hetero marriage as something exclusive and different from h0m0 relationships, then it will be unjust not to grant the request of other partners to call their fleshly intimate relationships marriage. This is being coupled with the lowering of the age of consent to 12 so you will in essence be able to marry and have intercourse with children. This is the ultimate goal of the gay agenda to change the very fabric of society to allow any form of fleshly expression.

      Yeah s is a liar and fraud not to mention atheist, I have explained in the past and a fact that you have not refuted that the APA description of what it considers a illness has changed not that gays diagnosis has changed and the definition is that if you don't have a problem being gay then there is no problem. Also there have been no studies either that can refute the old studies that you say are biased but prove H0m0 s have quite a few
      problems.

      In the manufacturing process some will be defective and taken off the production line. Its the law of percentages. That is a normal occurrence but if you allowed the defective product to go out into the public then that would be a product out in public's hands that doesn't work as its supposed to that is not normal. This is how they get around calling gays normal. That there will be a certain amount of defective product is normal but that the product doesn't work like it should is not normal. Out of all the births to have some gay is normal but that they are gay is not normal. Just like having some birth defects among all the births is normal but those with the birth defects are not a normal physical variance. This is physical, but being h0m0 is something that is unseen unproven able to be cured in most cases and behavior issue that has a bad record of social problems.

      Could be thousands they are still deceived and will when the final day comes receive there dues
      “He shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord.”
      - Mic_5:4

      His reign is practical in its character. It is said, “He shall stand and feed.” The great Head of the Church is actively engaged in providing for his people. He does not sit down upon the throne in empty state, or hold a sceptre without wielding it in government. No, he stands and feeds. The expression “feed,” in the original, is like an analogous one in the Greek, which means to shepherdize, to do everything expected of a shepherd: to guide, to watch, to preserve, to restore, to tend, as well as to feed.
      His reign is continual in its duration. It is said, “He shall stand and feed”; not “He shall feed now and then, and leave his position”; not, “He shall one day grant a revival, and then next day leave his Church to barrenness.” His eyes never slumber, and his hands never rest; his heart never ceases to beat with love, and his shoulders are never weary of carrying his people’s burdens.
      His reign is effectually powerful in its action; “He shall feed in the strength of Jehovah.” Wherever Christ is, there is God; and whatever Christ does is the act of the Most High. Oh! it is a joyful truth to consider that he who stands to-day representing the interests of his people is very God of very God, to whom every knee shall bow. Happy are we who belong to such a shepherd, whose humanity communes with us, and whose divinity protects us. Let us worship and bow down before him as the people of his pasture.

      January 17, 2013 at 8:10 pm |

  8. 261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

    .
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    John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

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    Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.
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    Eric

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    James

    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
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    Brent

    "There is no Christian case for "gay marriage"

    Religion-based bigotry use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the atudes of some people today toward hosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with atudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced atudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify atudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

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    Elaine

    "Sodom and Gomorrah is still a good example. "

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted ra pe of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterose xuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were ho mose xuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and ra pe, mainly by heterose xuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same se x, and ho mose xuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against ho mose xuality in general is like comparing ra pe to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions ho mose xuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – se xual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a se xual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterose xual practicing ho mose xual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since se x with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the se xual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to hom ose xuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray ho mose xuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral hom ose xuals, just as there are immoral heterose xuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our se xuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterose xual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned hom ose xuality. I believe that was because ho mose xuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of ho mose xuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.

    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16

    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning ho mose xual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterose xual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that ho mose xual se x is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates hom ose xuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean hom ose xual se x generally, but only limiting hom ose xual se x in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce hom ose xual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal se x. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have se x with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have se x with another man in the temple;" and "don't have se x with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have se x with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born se xless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven hom ose xuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for hom ose xual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the se xes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against hom ose xual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid hom ose xual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists hom ose xuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "hom ose xual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prost itutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their se xual orientation, the fact remains that hom ose xuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept hom ose xuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Hom ose xuality is normal. The phrase "para physin" appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, hom ose xuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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    YeahRight

    Bob – the biggest liar anywhere. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts in this country are stating that heterose xual behavior and hom ose xual behavior are normal aspects of human se xuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bise xual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that hom ose xuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterose xual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-se x partners closely resemble those of heterose xual partnerships. Like heterose xual couples, same-se x couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterose xual and same-se x couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterose xual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-se x parents as it is for children of opposite-se x parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-se x parents as for children of opposite-se x parents.

    Assertions that heterose xual couples are inherently better parents than same se x couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterose xual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterose xual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterose xual parents.

    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    mama k

    Bob and Douglas continue to push their bigoted agenda here on this article. They seem stuck in the past – quoting outdated material and living with this very narrow view of the world.

    I have a funny feeling that SCOTUS will soon do away with DOMA. Even many of the people who were pushing for it before have vocally turned around on it. So whether it be slow, or sped up by SCOTUS, traditional marriage laws will fall reasonable soon. It's difficult to slow down a civil rights movement once it gets going.

    Whether one likes it or not, the Biblical case for gay marriage was actually made quite a long time ago. Gay couples have been getting married in quite a number of Christian and other churches in the states where it has been legal. The opportunities will grow as more and more states push for gay marriage laws. It's hard to stop a justifiable civil rights movement once it gets going.

    For those interested, the following faiths perform same-s ex marriage:

    -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
    -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
    -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
    -Metropolitan Community Church
    -Unitarian Universalist

    and I'm confident that more mainstream faiths in the U.S. will join that list as DOMA is repealed and more states join the list of those that have already legalized gay marriage.

    Also, for those interested, check out these gay-friendly organizations if looking for a church:

    http://www.gaychurch.org/
    http://www.awab.org

    And I'm sure there are more. Do your own research and if you really want church, find one that is fully accepting of you and your partner.

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    January 17, 2013 at 7:56 pm |

  9. 261 Ministers Proclamation

    As Christian clergy we proclaim: the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death. The Holy Spirit compels us:

    -to affirm that the essence of Christian life is not focused on sexual orientation, but how one lives by grace in relationship with God, with compassion toward humanity;

    –to embrace the full inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters in all areas of church life, including leadership;

    –to declare that the violence must stop. Christ’s love moves us to work for the healing of wounded souls who are victims of abuse often propagated in the name of Christ;

    –to celebrate the prophetic witness of all people who have refused to let the voice of intolerance and violence speak for Christianity, especially LGBT persons, who have met hatred with love;

    Therefore we call for an end to all religious and civil discrimination against any person based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. All laws must include and protect the freedoms, rights, and equal legal standing of all persons, in and outside the church.

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    John

    Some argue that since homosexual behavior is "unnatural" it is contrary to the order of creation. Behind this pronouncement are stereotypical definitions of masculinity and femininity that reflect rigid gender categories of patriarchal society. There is nothing unnatural about any shared love, even between two of the same gender, if that experience calls both partners to a fuller state of being. Contemporary research is uncovering new facts that are producing a rising conviction that homosexuality, far from being a sickness, sin, perversion or unnatural act, is a healthy, natural and affirming form of human sexuality for some people. Findings indicate that homosexuality is a given fact in the nature of a significant portion of people, and that it is unchangeable.

    Our prejudice rejects people or things outside our understanding. But the God of creation speaks and declares, "I have looked out on everything I have made and `behold it (is) very good'." . The word (Genesis 1:31) of God in Christ says that we are loved, valued, redeemed, and counted as precious no matter how we might be valued by a prejudiced world.

    There are few biblical references to homosexuality. The first, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, is often quoted to prove that the Bible condemns homosexuality. But the real sin of Sodom was the unwillingness of the city's men to observe the laws of hospitality. The intention was to insult the stranger by forcing him to take the female role in the sex act. The biblical narrative approves Lot's offer of his virgin daughters to satisfy the sexual demands of the mob. How many would say, "This is the word of the Lord"? When the Bible is quoted literally, it might be well for the one quoting to read the text in its entirety.

    Leviticus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, condemns homosexual behaviour, at least for males. Yet, "abomination", the word Leviticus uses to describe homosexuality, is the same word used to describe a menstruating woman. Paul is the most quoted source in the battle to condemn homosexuality ( 1 Corinthians 6: 9-11 and Romans 1: 26-27). But homosexual activity was regarded by Paul as a punishment visited upon idolaters by God because of their unfaithfulness. homosexuality was not the sin but the punishment.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul gave a list of those who would not inherit the Kingdom of God. That list included the immoral, idolaters, adulterers, sexual perverts, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, and robbers. sexual perverts is a translation of two words; it is possible that the juxtaposition of malakos, the soft, effeminate word, with arsenokoitus, or male prostitute, was meant to refer to the passive and active males in a homosexual liaison.

    Thus, it appears that Paul would not approve of homosexual behavior. But was Paul's opinion about homosexuality accurate, or was it limited by the lack of scientific knowledge in his day and infected by prejudice born of ignorance? An examination of some of Paul's other assumptions and conclusions will help answer this question. Who today would share Paul's anti-Semitic attitude, his belief that the authority of the state was not to be challenged, or that all women ought to be veiled? In these attitudes Paul's thinking has been challenged and transcended even by the church! Is Paul's commentary on homosexuality more absolute than some of his other antiquated, culturally conditioned ideas?

    Three other references in the New Testament (in Timothy, Jude and 2 Peter) appear to be limited to condemnation of male sex slaves in the first instance, and to showing examples (Sodom and Gomorrah) of God's destruction of unbelievers and heretics (in Jude and 2 Peter respectively).

    That is all that Scripture has to say about homosexuality. Even if one is a biblical literalist, these references do not build an ironclad case for condemnation. If one is not a biblical literalist there is no case at all, nothing but prejudice born of ignorance, that attacks people whose only crime is to be born with an unchangeable sexual predisposition toward those of their own sex.

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    Don

    The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual! We are all created with powerful needs for personal relationships. Our quality of life depends upon the love we share with others; whether family or friends, partners or peers. Yet, lesbians and gay men facing hostile attitudes in society often are denied access to healthy relationships. Jesus Christ calls us to find ultimate meaning in life through a personal relationship with our Creator. This important spiritual union can bring healing and strength to all of our human relationships

    Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!

    Genesis 19:1-25

    Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.

    First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?

    Romans 1:24-27

    Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.

    This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.

    The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

    What is "Natural"?

    Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.

    I Corinthians 6:9

    Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.

    The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.

    The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love

    The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".

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    Sarah

    Let me make one thing clear: being gay is not wrong. It is not unnatural. It isn’t immoral or gross or something that should provoke disgust. What is wrong, what is unnatural, what is immoral and what is gross is intolerance and discrimination against fellow human beings for their sexual orientation and active pursuit of preventing loving and committed homosexual couples from legally being married.

    I believe in God, and I identify as a Christian, and this identity as a Christian has provided me with the insight to know that people who oppose gay marriage based on “religious reasons” are just making excuses for their homophobia. The idea that homosexuality is sinful is a farce. The Bible never actually condemns homosexuality. You know what the Bible does condemn?

    Winking. “He who winks is plotting perversity.” Proverbs 16:30

    Rounded haircuts. “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.” Leviticus 19:17

    Tattoos. “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you.” Leviticus 19:28

    It is unacceptable that some modern Americans think it’s alright to toss rules like these aside and yet still vehemently oppose marriage rights for homosexual couples.

    As a Christian, I’ve been taught to love my neighbor. Somehow, active public discrimination against homosexuals and barring fellow human beings from marriage rights does not seem very loving or neighborly to me.

    Homosexuality isn’t a disease: it’s an innate way of being.

    Nobody is going to “catch” gay.

    Nobody is going to be “cured” of their homosexuality.

    Sexual orientation is personal and affects nobody but the individual and is absolutely not the business of anybody but the individual.

    The fact that people continue to suggest otherwise and perpetuate this idea that homosexuality is wrong and attempting to make outcasts of people who identify as gay is unbelievably disgusting and frightening and old-fashioned.

    It’s 2012, and we should have come much further than this by now.

    This matters. This is an issue that, if left unfixed, tacitly permits discrimination and harassment.

    The prevalence of anti-gay messages encourages bullying and hate crimes, and there are literally confused, hurt, frightened young people who actually kill themselves over issues like this — and yet people still insist upon calling homosexuality a sin.

    The cruelty and hypocrisy is infuriating and unacceptable.

    It needs to stop.

    Until marriage equality is legal in all fifty states, I hope Americans will have the courage to end hatred and homophobia.
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    Eric

    Being gay is not a choice science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.
    All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

    Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

    In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

    The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

    On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

    Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website: "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

    But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

    This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

    The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

    Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

    Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

    Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

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    James

    As usual, Bob is wrong again. The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
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    Brent

    "There is no Christian case for "gay marriage"

    Religion-based bigotry use religious teachings to justify discrimination against Native Americans, African Americans, minority religious groups, woman and interracial couples.

    Connecting the dots between historical bigotry against other groups and the atudes of some people today toward hosexuality is one of the most effective ways to educate people about the denial of equal rights to the LGBT community.

    Most people know that, historically, religion has been used to justify discrimination against women, religious minorities and people of color. Putting anti-gay religious beliefs in this historical context can be a powerful tool in connecting discrimination that most Americans today accept as morally wrong and the discrimination faced by LGBT people. By citing historical instances of religion-based bigotry and prejudice, you allow people to be more comfortable with atudinal change – they realize they are not stepping out alone against a commonly accepted viewpoint but rather following historical progress toward justice and equality.

    When talking about the misuse of religion to justify discrimination in the past, it is important not to say that the LGBT community’s struggle with discrimination is exactly the same as the Civil Rights Movement. Rather, the point is that religion-based bigotry has been a common denominator of injustice toward many groups in American society’s past. When given a chance, many people will see the underlying historical pattern of using religious teachings and beliefs to justify harmful discrimination.

    There is another benefit to citing other times in the past when religious teachings have been used to justify discrimination. Many times, when people of faith are challenged about their anti-gay views, they cite biblical verses or other religious texts as a safe haven when they are unable to articulate why they hold prejudiced atudes toward LGBT people. Instead of telling people that their interpretation is wrong, you can remind them that other religious texts have been used in the past to justify atudes and laws that are recognized today as morally wrong and unjust – such as discrimination against women, people of color and religious minorities.

    History provides the moral judgment, and we do not have to be theologians engaged in scriptural debates to point people to the judgment rendered by history.

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    Elaine

    "Sodom and Gomorrah is still a good example. "

    In Genesis 18, the story about the angels coming to Lot's house, we learn that the reason they were coming to destroy Sodom was because of the wickedness that ALREADY existed in the city. The exact form of wickedness is not mentioned in that story!

    Let's just reinforce this CRITICAL piece of information. In the story of Sodom, in Genesis 18, God had ALREADY decided to destroy the city BEFORE the attempted ra pe of the angels – which incidentally was perpetrated mainly by heterose xuals since ALL the men of the city were involved, and we know that throughout history, gays have only represented about 10% of the population. Also, if they were ho mose xuals, why would Lot suggest that they take his daughters instead? That just doesn't make sense if the men were gay.

    So just to get this straight, the event that took place at Sodom was an act of violence and ra pe, mainly by heterose xuals. It had nothing to do with a loving relationship between two people of the same se x, and ho mose xuality was NOT the sin of Sodom in whatever form. The story of Sodom in Genesis 18 was about violence and domination, the same type of event that takes place in prisons and occupied countries, but it was NOT the reason for God's decision to destroy the city, and to use this story as a basis for prejudice against ho mose xuality in general is like comparing ra pe to marriage. There is NO similarity!

    The aftermath of Sodom aside, let's take a look at other passages of Scripture that mention the sin of Sodom. Here are 14 references to Sodom and not one of them mentions ho mose xuality!!!!! The overwhelming themes are idolatry, immorality and inhospitality! To me, this indicates people like Bob and HeavenSent have taken things out of context!

    Deuteronomy 29:17-26 – the sin – idolatry and images to false gods – "Why has the Lord done this to the land? . . . It is because this people abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . ."

    Deuteronomy 32:32-38 – the sin – idolatry – "He will say 'Now where are their gods?'"

    Isaiah 1:2-23 – the sin – idolatry, rebellion, injustice, murder, greed, theft, covetousness, mistreating the poor – "They have rebelled against Me."

    Isaiah 3:8-19 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance – "Their words and deeds are against the Lord, defying His glorious Presence"

    Jeremiah 23:10-14 – the sin – idolatry, adultery, lying by priests and prophets – "Both prophet and priest are godless. . . . They prophesied by Baal and led My people astray."

    Jeremiah 49:16-18 – the sin – idolatry, arrogance, oppression, pride of the heart – "The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived
    you. . ."

    Jeremiah 50:2-40 – the sin – idolatry, pride, false prophets – "Her images will be put to shame and her idols filled with terror. . . . . For she has defied the Lord, the Holy One of Israel. . . . . Their shepherds have led them astray."

    Lamentations 4:3-6 – the sin – cruelty and failure to care for the young and poor – "My people have become heartless."

    Ezekiel 16:49-50 – the sin – "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned: they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me."

    Amos 4:1-11 – the sin – idolatry, oppression, mistreating the poor – "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom . . . . yet you have not returned to Me."

    Zephaniah 2:8-11 – the sin – idolatry, pride, mocking – "This is what they will get in return for their pride, for insulting and mocking the people of the Lord Almighty. The Lord will be awesome to them when He destroys all the gods of the land."

    Luke 17:26-29 – Jesus speaking – No specific sins mentioned

    II Peter 2:1-22 – the sin – idolatry, living after ungodliness, lawlessness, arrogance, blaspheming, adultery, greed, corruption, depravity, boasting, lust – "But there were also false prophets among the people . . . . ."

    Jude 1:7-8 – the sin – se xual immorality and perversion, i.e fornication after strange flesh (angels, see Genesis 6:1) KJV

    The dictionary defines "perversion" as "a se xual practice regarded as abnormal". That means that a heterose xual practicing ho mose xual acts is perverted as in the case of ALL the men of Sodom wanting to engage with the angels (strange flesh). However, since se x with the same gender is normal for a gay person, there is no perversion associated merely by the se xual act.

    Note also that, while the word "abomination" has been used with reference to hom ose xuality, the biblical interpretation of the word "abomination" relates to any act of uncleanness as set out in the Holiness Code, such as eating shellfish, trimming your hair, touching the skin of a dead pig (should we stone the entire NFL?), wearing clothes of two kinds of material (polyester/cotton) – the list is long. How can we discuss one sin to the exclusion of all others?

    This is an enormous subject, which has been reduced to simplistic values. It is plain and simple prejudice to portray ho mose xuals as immoral just because of the gender to whom we are attracted. Of course there are immoral hom ose xuals, just as there are immoral heterose xuals, but simple orientation carries no implication of morality or immorality.

    Our se xuality is God-given. God made us the way we are. It follows naturally that He loves us exactly the way He made us. So long as we embrace marriage with the same standards as any monogamous, loving heterose xual relationship there should be no barrier against us.

    When gays are only asking to have their loving relationships acknowledged and respected, why is there so much fear and anger? To strengthen marriage, why not take a stand against divorce and separation, instead of opposing love and commitment? Jesus spoke of divorce, but he never mentioned hom ose xuality. I believe that was because ho mose xuality was not even an issue in His day. Love was love. Love IS Love!

    "Protect marriage? Puhlease. With a 50 percent divorce rate, rampant domestic violence, Las Vegas drive-through chapels, and I wanna-marry-a-really-rich-guy reality TV shows, there's no way gays could trash marriage the way straight people have."

    This letter only refers to the sin of Sodom. There are actually six "clobber verses" which are used against gays. Space does not permit an explanation of each one, but just as the sin of Sodom has been misrepresented, so have the other verses. There is an explanation for each one that clearly indicates that, just as slavery was condoned by Scripture for many years, ("Slaves obey your masters . . . . ." Eph. 6:5-8) and civil wars were fought to protect the ownership of people, we now know that Scripture was interpreted incorrectly, for God would not have people to be possessions.

    We now have a fuller understanding of Scripture with regard to slavery. It's time to accept a fuller understanding of ho mose xuality based on new research into language, concepts and customs when these words were written.

    So please choose acceptance and inclusiveness whether or not you understand fully. One of us is wrong. Many of you think it's me. I think it's you, based on solid research into Scripture from another perspective. Yes, God encourages us to question Scripture.

    "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, REPROOF and instruction in righteousness." II Tim. 3:16

    If there is even a chance that I could be right, do you want to take the eternal risk of rejecting some of God's children, and slamming the doors of your churches to those of us who wish to enter? That's what you're doing when you treat us as less than yourselves simply based on our orientation.

    If we have done the research, and it is our understanding that God loves us, including our orientation, then why not just let God be the judge? He will be in the end anyway. If one of us is to err, why not err on the side of love and acceptance? Now that was truly Jesus' example!

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    Shawn

    Let me start this off with a quote from a famous lesbian, Lynn Lavner:

    "There are 6 admonishments in the Bible concerning ho mose xual activity, and our enemies are always throwing them up to us – usually in a vicious way and very much out of context.

    What they don't want us to remember is that there are 362 admonishments in the Bible concerning heterose xual activity. I don't mean to imply by this that God doesn't love straight people, only that they seem to require a great deal more supervision."

    I am going to attempt to keep this short and simple, so here we go.

    Some claim that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 clearly say that ho mose xual se x is an abomination. In fact, it merits death. Isn't it obvious that God hates hom ose xuality?

    Yes, depending on which translation you are using, Leviticus does say, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it's an abomination." However, a few points must be made about this statement:

    a) It appears in Leviticus, which was given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. However, as stated in Galatians 3:22-55, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. Even if you, for some reason, argue that these "laws" are still important, then you surely follow all of them, right?

    It is interesting that people who use Leviticus against the gay community forget the part that talks about religious sacrifices, making women sleep in tents outside during their period, the dietary restrictions placed on them and how to cleanse a leper, all of which appear in Leviticus.

    The laws of Leviticus are completely obsolete for today's Christian; however, even if you do claim to live by the laws of Leviticus, it is not fair to pick and choose which laws you are going to live by, or condemn a people by, if you are not going to follow the others. You should not need any more convincing evidence than this; but if you do, be my guest.

    b) The word that was in the original work, "to'ebah," which was translated into Greek as "bdglygma" actually means "ritual impurity" rather than abomination (or enormous sin). These passages in Leviticus can be translated to not mean hom ose xual se x generally, but only limiting hom ose xual se x in Pagan temples.

    c) This passage does not denounce hom ose xual behavior as a whole, but just the specific act of anal se x. This was meant for the prevention of disease. It was ruled unclean because it was physically unclean; however, hygiene has made wonderful advances since that time.

    d) These passages in Leviticus can be interpreted in many ways. I have seen it interpreted by scholars and priests to mean: "don't have se x with another man in your wife's bed;" "don't have se x with another man in the temple;" and "don't have se x with another man and pretend he is a woman," just to name a few.

    I have never seen an interpretation in any Bible, or from any scholar, that specifically says to never have se x with a man.

    Some claim the Bible simply does not support gay marriage. Chapter two of Genesis defines marriage as a holy union between a man and a woman. And later, in Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus himself reiterates the traits of a traditional marriage. How can you argue that anything other than celibacy is honorable for gay and lesbian people?

    Yes, marriage is a holy union. However, in these passages, while Jesus reiterates (but does not require) the traditional marriage, he also provides an exception for eunuchs (castrated men – or otherwise impotent men, in today's terms), and allowed them to be married, saying that this law is given to those to whom it applies.

    Because these eunuchs were born se xless, God made an exception for them because it was natural. The same applies to the Gay community today. Science has proven hom ose xuality is completely natural, so it seems God would allow for hom ose xual marriages.

    In Matthew 19: 4-5, Jesus encourages a traditional path, but does not discourage alternatives, except in the case of divorce.

    Jesus did stress purity of marriage, but not in regard to the se xes of the people within it. It can be seen that the reason that churches are against hom ose xual marriage is not because it is explicitly said by God, but because of a lack of instruction to specifically allow it.

    In the time that the Bible was written it would have been impossible to foresee the future to be able to specifically allow or forbid hom ose xual marriage.

    Some claim, in Paul's letter to the Corinthians, he lists hom ose xuals amongst the many sinners who will not inherit the kingdom of God. Doesn't that make God's position on this vice very clear?

    If we look at the other types of people listed in this passage, we can understand what it is actually talking about. Law breakers, thieves, adulterers and drunks are specifically mentioned. The word "hom ose xual" was not found until the 1890s, so it would have been impossible for it to be in the original version.

    What actually appears in the original is Paul condemning those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind." In this context, the original Greek word, "malakos," is translated into effeminate, or soft, which, more than likely, refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control.

    In this passage, when Paul condemns "abusers of themselves with mankind," he is speaking of male prost itutes.

    Then there are the people who claim that, even though science has proven that people don't choose their se xual orientation, the fact remains that hom ose xuality is unnatural. Romans 1:26-27 tells us that humans have a sinful nature, and therefore commit sins against God. Certain people are predisposed to be alcoholics and pedophiles, but that doesn't make their actions any less immoral. God tells us to "tear out your eye" if it makes you stumble. Why can't you just accept hom ose xuality as the part of your nature you must deny?

    Because the Bible has gone through so many translations, and through the hands of many people (some being non-believers), it is not surprising that the meaning has become a little fuzzy in parts.

    Hom ose xuality is normal. The phrase "para physin" appears in the original text for this verse. This term is often translated to mean "unnatural;" however, more accurate translation would be unconventional.

    Proof for this can be found in 1 Corinthians 11:14 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to men with long hair (unconventional, not unnatural) and in Romans 11:24 where Paul uses this phrase to refer to the positive action God made to bring together the Jews and Gentiles.

    All in all, hom ose xuality is obviously not a sin, unless you take passages from the Bible and add your own words or you just try really hard to interpret it that way. Let's just remember Galatians 5:14, where Paul stated, "the whole Law is fulfilled in one Statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

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    YeahRight

    Bob – the biggest liar anywhere. We've pointed out over and over again you are using reports from well known hate groups that the experts in this country have proven are false. The experts in this country are stating that heterose xual behavior and hom ose xual behavior are normal aspects of human se xuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bise xual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that hom ose xuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

    Like their heterose xual counterparts, many gay and lesbian people want to form stable, long-lasting, committed relationships. Indeed, many of them do and that large proportions are currently involved in such a relationship and that a substantial number of those couples have been together 10 or more years.

    Research demonstrates that the psychological and social aspects of committed relationships between same-se x partners closely resemble those of heterose xual partnerships. Like heterose xual couples, same-se x couples form deep emotional attachments and commitments. Heterose xual and same-se x couples alike face similar issues concerning intimacy, love, equity, loyalty, and stability, and they go through similar processes to address those issues. Research examining the quality of intimate relationships also shows that gay and lesbian couples have levels of relationship satisfaction similar to or higher than those of heterose xual couples.

    A large number of gay and lesbian couples raise children. Children and teenagers whose parents provide loving guidance in the context of secure home environments are more likely to flourish – and this is just as true for children of same-se x parents as it is for children of opposite-se x parents. Based on research findings, mental health professionals have also reached a consensus that the quality of relationships among significant adults in a child’s or adolescent’s life is associated with adjustment. When relationships between parents are characterized by love, warmth, cooperation, security, and mutual support, children and adolescents are more likely to show positive adjustment. In contrast, when relationships between parents are conflict-ridden and acrimonious, the adjustment of children and adolescents is likely to be less favorable. These correlations are just as true for children of same-se x parents as for children of opposite-se x parents.

    Assertions that heterose xual couples are inherently better parents than same se x couples, or that the children of lesbian or gay parents fare worse than children of heterose xual parents, have no support in the scientific research literature. On the contrary, the scientific research that has directly compared outcomes for children with gay and lesbian parents with outcomes for children with heterose xual parents has consistently shown that the former are as fit and capable as the latter and that their children are as psychologically healthy and well adjusted as children reared by heterose xual parents.

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    mama k

    Bob and Douglas continue to push their bigoted agenda here on this article. They seem stuck in the past – quoting outdated material and living with this very narrow view of the world.

    I have a funny feeling that SCOTUS will soon do away with DOMA. Even many of the people who were pushing for it before have vocally turned around on it. So whether it be slow, or sped up by SCOTUS, traditional marriage laws will fall reasonable soon. It's difficult to slow down a civil rights movement once it gets going.

    Whether one likes it or not, the Biblical case for gay marriage was actually made quite a long time ago. Gay couples have been getting married in quite a number of Christian and other churches in the states where it has been legal. The opportunities will grow as more and more states push for gay marriage laws. It's hard to stop a justifiable civil rights movement once it gets going.

    For those interested, the following faiths perform same-s ex marriage:

    -United Church of Christ: The United Church of Christ was the first mainstream Christian church to fully support same-s ex marriage and perform marriage ceremonies.
    -Jewish: Reform Judaism embraces same-se x marriage and rabbis can perform ceremonies.
    -Quaker: The willingness to perform gay marriages varies by meetinghouse, but there is some acceptance and performance of same-se x marriages among Quakers.
    -Metropolitan Community Church
    -Unitarian Universalist

    and I'm confident that more mainstream faiths in the U.S. will join that list as DOMA is repealed and more states join the list of those that have already legalized gay marriage.

    Also, for those interested, check out these gay-friendly organizations if looking for a church:

    http://www.gaychurch.org/
    http://www.awab.org

    And I'm sure there are more. Do your own research and if you really want church, find one that is fully accepting of you and your partner.

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