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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. sfdr

    Lord, save us from your "followers".

    May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  2. Snowdog

    Jesus loves the sinner but not the sin. As Christains we are called to love all people and not hate. People who do not believe in a creator, I feel sorry for you. Look around you. If you cannot see a creator you are truly blind. It takes more faith to be an Atheist than a Christain. No matter what you believe you will face the one you say you do not believe in. God will give you what you want. He will say depart from me I do not know you. Whose fault is that? Yours. You do not want anything to do with him while you are on earth then he will give you that in eternity. You will be spearated from God forever. God does not hate, only Satan hates. God is love and wants all to be in heaven with him. Satan lies. Many say, why would a loving God send anyone to hell if he loves everyone. God does not send anyone to hell. Each person that does not believe send themselves to hell. Remember, eternity is forever. I choose to believe because I want to be with God when I die. The evidence that Christianity is the true faith is overwhelming. The Bible has been proven true every time an Atheist tries to disprove it. The Bible is still the most published and distrbuted book in the world. He exists people no matter what you say. He exists. We did not just pop here one day. To beleive that is just ingnorant and does not make sense. I love all people and pray for all non-believers everyday.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Drew

      Even if I look around and see a creator, nothing I see would convince me it is the Xtian god. If we were living in India you would be exhorting me to acknowledge the existence of many gods!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Truth7

      They are attacking Jesus Christ because they KNOW He is the only way to God. They aren't attacking Catholics, because most are already fallen by deception. They aren't attacking the Jewish, because most do not accept Jesus. They don't attack Muslims, because they don't believe in Jesus as the Messiah.

      "Just remember, they hated me first".

      May 19, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • Drew

      Truth7, I will attack radical Islam any day, because as much as i dislike you and your ilk they are far worse.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Bob

      Snowdog, you really need to take a more critical examination of your beliefs and your "holy book", because it is very clear therein that your god would actually be quite the ass-hole if he actually existed.

      Really, do the world a favor and think about this. The bible says that god will threaten and punish you with torture forever if you so much as doubt his existence or think a different god exists. Any modern human court would consider such punishment barbaric, to say the least. And the threats of torture purportedly by your god would consti-tute criminal aggravated assault.

      That's one very nasty god you've made for yourself there. Looking at the bible, we find nasty demands from sicko Christian god like these:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Snowdog. Thanks for you comment. It's true that faith is a gift. We get so much more than we can possibly repay. We would be better off if there were more Christians that think the way you do.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • Mark

      The Bible describes the earth as flat, the center of the universe, and fixed and unmovable. When I hear Christian talk about the tents of Christianity, it's like listening to an insane person spout nonsense about the world. I'm amazed they can hold such ridiculous beliefs in their own mind, given what is known about the world.

      I love this bumper sticker quote: "Worship Me or I Will Torture you forever. Have a Nice Day" - God

      The fact that Christians can talk about their loving god, and in the next breath claim their god is going to torture you forever, if you don't worship him, is just one of the ways they show me how crazy their belief system is.

      Google: "Flat Earth Bible" for more info on where the bible describes the earth as flat.

      Also check out the youTube video "Jesus Loves You!" by yogurtking

      May 19, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
    • Snowdog

      Bob, your taking the Bible out of context. You are stating one verse and making God out to be a killer which he is not. That is how cults form. You need to study a verse to find out what it actualy meant. In the Old Testament they did sacrafice animals as offerings to God. In the New testament Jesus was that sacrafice for all. Now, are there consequences to sin, Yes. God gave us the 10 commandments out of Love not hate. He gave them to us so we could live a good life. Why cant God punish sin? DId your parents punish you when you did something wrong? They did not do it out of hate. They did it out of love to protect you. You cannot take a few verses from the Bible and say, see God hates and kills. Please study the verse and learn what it actually means. God is love, not hate.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
    • Keep It Real

      Drew
      "Truth7, I will attack radical Islam any day, because as much as i dislike you and your ilk they are far worse."

      Yes. Right on.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:47 pm |
    • Keep It Real

      Snowdog,
      "DId your parents punish you when you did something wrong? They did not do it out of hate. They did it out of love to protect you."

      Yes, sometimes to protect... and sometimes just because they were p!ssed off or inconvenienced or tired or fed up - but never once did they throw me into the barbecue for eternity (nor even threaten to).

      Face it... the god of the Hebrew/Christian Bible is a monster.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
  3. DanielBama

    I've been straight now for the last ten years and, looking back, realize what a pervert I was when I went through may gay period. It is sick.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • DanielBama

      So don't tell me its no choice. I made a choic to give it up.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      wait a minute... you led a g.ay lifestyle? seriously?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • DanielBama

      Years ago. Because I was molested. I am NOT fvcking gay, though.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      this all makes sense now. you are a g.ay h.omophobe. i'm actually feeling really sorry for you. my heart goes out to you that you are now brain washed into believing your desires are evil. you are still g.ay.

      did you go to one of those retreats to pray the g.ay away? wow, i'm actually really feeling sorry for you.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Holly

      That makes SO MUCH SENSE now. Why are you guys so ashamed of the gay thing!

      May 19, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @DanielBama-
      Some of the options to explain your conversion are...
      1) You were never gay, just bi-curious in your youth.
      2) You're still gay, but repress your feelings (a common effect of religious indoctrination and the resulting guilt).
      3) You were healed of a non-existent pathology.
      4) You're a liar.
      5) Divine intervention.
      Reasonable readers can decide which are the most likely.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • Really-O?

      @DanielBama-

      If you were mol.ested, that is a valid explanation; early se.xual abuse can result in pathology that affects se.xual orientation and expression. In that case, you could have been "healed" and you deserve compassion, not derision; however, if true, you might want to offer others compassion rather than judgement.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
  4. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS:-->>>>>>>>>

    Let us eliminate the god and Christian effects from the gay union discussion with a prayer:

    The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    May 19, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Reality

      Now that we have eliminated god and Christianity from the discusssion-

      Ho-mose-xuality in the 21st century––>>>

      ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS–-–>>>>

      "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

      To wit:

      o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

      “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

      "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

      See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

      Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

      And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.

      From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Truth7

      Cain took Abel away from God and was then given a mark.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Snowdog

      Wow, you are brave. You will face God one day. I will pray for you.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Bob

      Snowdog: lookup Pascal's Wager. You just fell for it.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • Snowdog

      Wow Reality, you are truly lost. Unmarked grave? Are you serious.They never found his body because he rose from the dead. Do you not think those Roman guards were not watching that grave like a hawk. They had his grave watched over by guards to disprove what Jesus taught. They wanted to show everyone that Jesus did not rise again. and that he was a liar. They would have paraded his body all over Jeruselem to show everyone that what he spoke was untrue. Why did they not do this Reality? Why? I can tell you why. Because there was no body. Jesus Rose on the thrid day. Amen Amen.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • Reality

      ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS:------->>>>

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

      The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."

      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      May 19, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
  5. Francisco Cruz

    Mark Osler have you not read the Gospel, in the book of Genesis God clearly says that what God has joined together let no man separate, god was not talking about divorce he was talking about his union between man and woman! you are in error! god validates his word not people, he does not change his mind on subjects, you may also remember Sodom and Gomorah, I ask you why? where they destroyed.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • Bob

      Francisco, that destruction and murder you listed is apparently part and parcel of what Christian god is like, according to the Christian book of nasty AKA the bible. Page after page, you find horrible stuff like this in there:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 19, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • Truth7

      Bob – only Satan battles God and tries to take people away from Him. Perhaps you should seek God instead of listening to satan. After Cain took Abel away from God, he was given a "mark".

      May 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      like a stamp you get at a dance club?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Bob

      Nope, Truth7, think through what I said more carefully next time. Again, read carefully:

      if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty, sicko sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 19, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Francisco, the things described in Sodom and Gomorrah are not exactly equivalent to the prospect of two gays wanting to join in a monogamous relationship through love. I think we can go too far sometimes thinking that we understand the will of God. Remember when he reminds us, My ways are not your ways.

      On the other hand Christian faith is practically unanimous concerning the existence of sins of impurity, and in recognition of such sins of impurity for heteros, we should apply a similar standard to gays.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Jessy the Gnostic

      Francisco, you have no right to force your opinions on others. You have no right to deny the blessings of god to anyone who seeks it. As Yeshua the Christ said to his disciples, his brothers through baptism, "seek and you shall find it".

      May 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
  6. abloigo

    Think of the profound ego-driven, maniacal arrogance it requires for someone to choose a username like HeavenSent or Truth7 on here. Wow. The sin of pride runs deep in these people taken by the Devil. Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    Rest assured, I do not hate you. I hate your sin of pride. I judge and condemn your sin and am writing this and praying for you so that you are saved from a life of eternal damanation for that wicked sinfulness in your hearts. May God find his way to you.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • Truth7

      No need for you to pray for me for I am squarely in God's corner. You're lying in this post, therefore you must hate the Truth of God's Word. I have spoken nothing but the Truth.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Drew

      @truth7: Yeah, well that's just like, your opinion, man

      May 19, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • abloigo

      More priideful sin! NO ONE knows the way of God until God has His final say, my child. REPENT of your wicked, evil dark idolatrous ways, Truth7. Humility of truth is the only corner to be with God. So sad to see you blinded with this hatred.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      no such thing as god. no such thing as sin.

      next.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      abloigo
      "More priideful sin! NO ONE knows the way of God until God has His final say, my child."
      Well, you seem quite content to claim to know the mind of God. Perhaps you should drink from the cup you proffer to others. What is more prideful than one who takes to himself the character of GOD'S SPOKESMAN?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
    • Jessy the Gnostic

      To me, there is no greater sin than willful ignorance. Those who deny the truth (such as Truth7 and the like, ironically) for the sake of holding onto tradition based on building stigmas and stereotypes are the true sinners.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • abloigo

      @sqek – You misunderstand me completely. Admitting that none of us know the Truth is the only place to begin. I do not speak for God. I do not speak for any but myself. I am simply trying to save people like Truth7 from the evil, wicked ways that consume them by their arrogance in alleging to speak for God. They do not.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:28 pm |
  7. mandarax

    Beep Beep, you keep insisting that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry because they are mentally ill. On what authority do you claim hom.ose.xuality to be a mental illness? What makes you a better informed expert on this than all the psychologists, psychiatrists, sociologists, medical doctors, and on and on who have declared definitively that it is not?

    What is the source of your expertise?

    May 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Bob

      Hey, mandarax, careful or you'll confuse the Christians if you keep presenting reason, science and evidence.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      christians hate facts.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • TD

      What is any source of expertise?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
  8. n8263

    Christians think Sharia Law is immoral but impose their own Sharia Law in America. It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others no matter what version it is.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
  9. Sean

    Romans 1:20-32 seems to sum up this whole discussion from all sides.

    20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • mandarax

      Except it was written by people who did not even know to brush their teeth or that germs cause disease. To assume that they knew things better than we do undermines the whole notion of human progress. These are iron age sheep herders, Sean. They have an Iron Age sheep herder understanding of the universe.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • Bob

      Sean, that quote selection misses out on some of the key demands by Christian god according to the bible. You can't just pick and choose the bits you like, or god will smite you and burn you forever, so the bible says, so have at these choice bits too:

      Numbers 31:17-18
      17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
      18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

      Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”

      Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.

      Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.

      And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • Truth7

      Bob – you do not understand what God is saying. Evil hearts see only evil. You can't see that the words have alternate meanings..

      Did God ki.ll Cain? No. That should be enough for you to grasp that you are not understanding, or hearing, what He is really saying. Ask God to help you if you want to know the Truth.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:56 pm |
    • Drew

      Wait, what's this, the words can have alternate meanings? Blasphemy, how dare you try to twist his words to suit your selfish desires, Truth7!

      May 19, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • Bob

      Nope, Truth7, you fail on that post of yours, yet again. Think this through about your idiotic sky fairy tale (you'll need to think hard, since you aren't very smart):

      If you disagree with my bible interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.

      So get out your sacrificial knife and kill and burn that sheep, or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.

      Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.

      http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

      May 19, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      god is a mass murderer. he drowned babies in the flood and killed more in egypt.

      baby killer = evil

      May 19, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • Sean

      The responses to my posting illustrate exactly what the verses said. Look...you go speeding down the road at 30 mph over the speed limit. The cop pulls you over and gives you a ticket. Is that the fault of the cop? Or you? The issue is the same here. We can all go round and round. I speak from the premise that there is the existance of God and there was a certain type of relationship that he established. Man broke that and has been paying the consequenses ever since. That is all the "evil" you see in the Bible. It is not that God is evil, but man is and God's plan all along has been to reestablish that relationship. Many of you, on the other hand come from the premise that there is no God and that if there was one, he is unfair, inconsistent, etc.

      The last verse I posted describes the responses here.

      "28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; "

      The responses here to Christianity as a whole are hateful, you insult those who say they believe and call them ignorant. You actually should have pity rather than hatred in that if what we believe is a lie, then we are worse off than you? But ask yourself the question...what if the Christians are right? What if? You are not so truly enlightened as you think if you reject out of hand that message. Just saying...there is a lot at stake. A true intellectual would have more of an open mind.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • Sean

      @mandarax – those bronze age sheep herders knew the earth was round and went around the sun. The people of that age knew how to build things that we still cannot replicate today. There are many things they knew how to do that we have lost the skills for...the surgeons of the day even did brain surgery. Don't dismiss them because you think that you are so advanced. There is even an example today...everyone that knows how to use a slide rule raise their hands. You know that the scientists of the day put man on the moon using slide rules. Many today cannot even make change without a calculator...don't tell me how far we have progressed. Technology has made us mentally soft...I say that from an educator's point of view...I am a high school science teacher. I see it. If it is not in Wikipedia or spelled out on a graphic calculator kids today cannot do it. And to think...those bronze age people figured out pi on clay tablets.

      May 19, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
  10. calvin

    There is no Christian case for gay marriage. Period.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • abloigo

      You are absolutely wrong. Christ is Love. Period.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • dc3219

      Gay marriage is not about love

      May 19, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Drew

      gay marriage is about love. Love doesn't care about genitalia

      May 19, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • JWT

      Here is a sold case for you: The christian church approves of and performs gay marriages. Thus it is obvious that christians approve of gayness and gay marriage.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Love don't need marriage

      May 19, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Snowdog

      Calvin, you are absolutely correct. I do not know what Bible this guy is reading but he is a false prophet. I fear for the people in this world. There will be a judgement day whether they believe it or not. They will face the one they do not believe in. I feel sorry for them.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • abloigo

      @Snowdog – which version of the Bible are you reading? The original language or one of thousands upon thousands of reintepretations thereafter? Just think how ignorant people only superficially interpreting divine messages could mistakenly change a few words to alter the entire meaning. Perhaps the New American version works or the teen Bible? So many to choose from, who knows where the truth lies.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • tnfreethinker

      There is no ethical version of a bigot: a person who is intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions or prejudices.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi
      Today's christians, more often than not, worship Humpty Dumpty. To wit: "When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.…" -Lewis Carroll

      May 19, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
  11. n8263

    It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others.

    You do not believe in religion because you honestly think it is true, you believe in it because you fear mortality, seek comfort or are trying to find meaning in your life. It does not take a genius to figure out all religion is man made, so for humanity's sake, please stop lying to yourself.

    Deluding yourself in religion does not change reality. Lying to yourself is probably the worst possible way to try to find meaning.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Truth7

      This same exact post shows up on every religious article. Automated????

      May 19, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Gabriel Herrera

      You lack faith brother. May god bless you.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Drew

      Truth7, why don't you address your inconsistency in interpreting scripture?

      May 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
  12. scoobypoo

    The absolute truth is that the gay discrimination is a sin. It is an abomination against humans.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Truth7

      There are only abominations against God.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • abloigo

      @truth7 – God does not appreciate evildoers such as yourself condemning His creations. My prayers are still with you that you arise from your sin. I have nothing but love for you, Truth7, but I hate what you are as a pride-filled sinner.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
  13. Terri

    You had a similar article last weekend (or the weekend before). Why don't you have a Christian case against gay marriage?

    May 19, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you can find lots of those articles at http://www.KKK.com.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • mandarax

      Because the case against gay marriage is already Christian. Religion is the only reason this is an issue.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Truth7

      Booty – you are the one spreading hatred. You must like living in the pit. I'd like to suggest you ask for God's help to crawl out of it. Time is short.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • Scholar

      Let us have a serious philosophical discussion on the marriage of

      Kim Kardashian

      and how lovely that was and how well it supports and defends the traditional spiritual marriage.

      For those defending the religious bases of marriage, they should gather their stones together for that whole family.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Drew

      Don't get so sensitive just because the KKK agree with you on this one, truth7

      May 19, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • abloigo

      The media is inundated with the anti-gay marriage agenda. Many people have been brainwashed by it, just as they were convinced slavery was moral because the Bible promoted it. They were wrong then and they are wrong today. Articles of this nature explain why.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • stormy miller

      BECAUSE THERE IS NO CHRISTIAN SIDE. EXCEPT MAKE BELIEVE IDEAS THAT CHURCH LEADERS HAVE TO LIE TO MAKE THEIR CULT FOLLOWERS BELIEVE

      May 19, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • Truth7

      Drew – your attempt to link God's believers to the KKK just means you are working for evil. You've made your choice and you've willingly taken the "mark of the beast".

      May 19, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • Drew

      Says the guy who agrees with the KKK

      May 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
  14. Drew

    I honestly think that the intolerance for gays in America doesn't spring from Christianity but from America itself. On some level we are still illiterate, backwoods colonials

    May 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      it's a little of column A, a little of column B.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • mandarax

      We are ignorant backwoods colonials who wield religion like a club.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • stormy miller

      I PARTIALLY AGREE BUT THE CHURCH DOES ALOT OF HARM

      May 19, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • DoNotWorry

      Our founding fathers were liberals. The Puritan faction was still here. Both factions are alive and fighting.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  15. Honey Badger Dont Care

    NO christian can be in favor of gay marriage or support any act that supports that gay agenda. You are commanded by your got do kiII all men who sleep with another man. PERIOD!

    And dont forget about stoning your unruly childeren and r@pe victims that dont scream loudly enough. Oh, and dont pick up sticks on Sunday (or is it Saturday, Friday?) they kiII you for that too.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      you forgot non-virgin brides. kill them too. sorry 98% of the female population - god says you have to die.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Truth7

      "Death" means "cutoff from God".

      May 19, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Drew

      Oh so suddenly the bible is subject to interpretation, truth7?

      May 19, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • mandarax

      Truth7, so when it says Jesus died on the cross for our sins, it really just means that Jesus was temporarily disconnected from God for our sins?

      May 19, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Aaron S

      I've studies scripture for almost thirty years (four at a secular university) and let me just caution you that you obviously do not know what you are speaking about. The danger I want to warn you of is that one day you may realize your error and hope that other people didn't put too much stock in your ignorant comments. Proverbs 18:2

      May 19, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Aaron S

      To be clear; my comments were directed at Honey Badger, but available to all of us to consider before we post our thoughts.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • DoNotWorry

      Bible is full of nasty stuff... I'm surprised it was never banned.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      Don't forget slaughtering all of the tiny babies who mistakenly chose to be born in Sodom and Gomorrah just in time to be destroyed and the first born sons of Egypt or the entire family of Job, in their large number, victims of a frivolous bet God made with Satan. Infanticide seems to be a specialty of God.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
  16. Worship Poseidon

    People from the south are hilarious!

    May 19, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      If only you knew.God bless Kush

      May 19, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
  17. liberty

    Wow, if that lawyer comes to the conclusion that the Bible is ok with gay marriage, I would NEVER hire him to represent me in court! He so wrongly interprets the Bible I wouldn't trust him to interpret law!!! – yeesh.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Worship Poseidon

      You sound like a fish eating dike.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      I eat fish

      May 19, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • JWT

      And yet christians support gay marriage. So he obviously has a good point.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      So liberty, you were entrusted to CORRECTLY interpret the words of God? Who anointed YOU?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:29 pm |
  18. Roland

    Mark is not a christian but a paid puppet spewing lies and falsehood concerning the holiness and accountability God demands of His children who are servants of Christ Jesus. You are playing with fire speaking these things and I pray you repent. Remember that Jesus willingly gave his life because mans sinful nature. He clearly came to change the soul of man that he would not remain in his fallen spiritual state and not to continue in the same rut.
    God clearly prescribes the parameters of Marriage in His written word. If you do not like that is fine and I respect that. But to miss represent Gods word is a wrong and is a sin that brings confusion upon the ignorant. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. He is not a new age belief system that is evolving according to the prevalent sinful desires inherent in all men born in sin. Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand!!!

    May 19, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Drew

      Exactly! Bring back slavery!

      May 19, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Worship Poseidon

      Go back to your trailer park.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      remember to kill everyone working on sunday, as the 'loving' god commands.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • abloigo

      Repent, Roland, for you are an idolater who worships a book that celebrates sla very, child abuse, ra_pe, mur_der, and de_ath because one wears more than one type of fabric. The Devil has taken your soul but it is not too late to find the True Christ. Look toward the Light and end this dark bile within. Repent! You are now in my prayers. There is still hope, Roland.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • JWT

      Your god is irrelevant. Has no purpoe or meaning outside of you.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Scholar

      Your statement of theology is suspect. You pray to God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Go review the Book of Matthew and the prayer that Jesus taught us to say, ending our prayers, as always, with that Hebrew word with which we end all prayers.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • Scholar

      How do I handle my neighbors' objections to my efforts to offer up a burnt offering that is pleasing to the eye of our Lord? Should I disguise that as a tailgate party and BBQ side of beef, perhaps?

      May 19, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
  19. Worship Poseidon

    Sharia Law is great.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Truth7

      You would be the first person they would go after.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • Drew

      Truth7, I think that is actually a testament to him

      May 19, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
  20. Worship Poseidon

    Paul B is a power bottom.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.