Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
By Mark Osler, Special to CNN
I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.
What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.
A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.
During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.
After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.
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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).
His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.
My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality
It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.
Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.
The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.
Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!
I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.
The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.
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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.
I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.
It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.
The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.
Christians claim their book of fables tells them what to do and what not to do. That's OK. the problem arises when they insist everyone else live by their book of rules whether they buy into it or not.
Iam not saying everyone must believe on Jesus or you can't live in America. Marriage is a Biblical act. Hollywood didn't create marriage. So why do you want to pollute a clean Godly way of life.
marriage does not belong solely to the religous pastor. Fact of life. Get over it.
You said, "Iam not saying everyone must believe on Jesus or you can't live in America. Marriage is a Biblical act. Hollywood didn't create marriage. So why do you want to pollute a clean Godly way of life"
Marriage predates the bible, it is therefor not biblical. The christians don't own the term. You don't get to set the rules for it.
You can define your own marriage as you see fit, but keep your delusion out of that of others.
@Pastor – Marriage was around long before christianity appeared and it will be around long after.
Name me one book older than the Bible?
The Epic of Gilgamesh – written between 2100 and 2000 BCE
But what does that have to do with the discussion at hand? There doesn't appear to be anyone arguing to change the religious version of marriage. The discussion is about the secular version. It's about marriage under federal and state law. The bible, and any other religious text are irrelevant in that discussion.
Maybe, to make it easier to understand, we shouldn't call the religious union a "marriage". Maybe "religious union" would be more appropriate.
I have no problem with churches defining for their own congregation what they accept for their form of union. They should be free to exclude those of other faiths, they should be free to exclude gays, they should even be free to exclude other races. They should also be free to include unions with inanimate objects, or even between multiple people.
The only involvement the government needs to have in those unions is in their role as protector of those that can't protect themselves. So, even religious unions should by law be restricted to consenting adults and inanimate objects. No children, animals or mentally handicapped.
The religious are free to call it whatever they want, including "marriage", as long as they understand that the term "marriage" isn't exclusive to them.
If they wish to be eligible for civil benefits, they are free to register their union with the State, as long as it meets the State's requirements. A plural union, or one with your mailbox, doesn't qualify.
@Pastor, the Samarian text, Chinese also had books older.
It is easy to prove God is imaginary, here is one way to do it: Look for places in the Bible where God is an absurd, unmitigated jerk instead of the "all-knowing", "all-loving", "fully-enlightened" being that he is supposed to be. The utter contradiction proves that God is imaginary.
There are many parts of the Bible that display these tendencies. However, if you are a woman, the place where God's absurdity becomes completely clear is when you look at God's s.e.xism.
The dictionary defines a misogynist as "One who hates women. It defines the word "s.e.xist" as:
1. Discrimination based on gender, especially discrimination against women.
2. Att.i.t.udes, conditions, or behaviors that promote stereotyping of social roles based on gender
Is God a s.e.xist? Let's look at the evidence. We find this in 1 Corinthians chapter 14:
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
This seems like a straightforward passage. And God is the one who inspired the Bible. In Isaiah 40:8 God says that the word of the Lord will last forever, and he says the same thing again in 1 Peter 1:24-25. So here we have God, in his eternal and everlasting Word, saying that it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
This quote from 1 Corinthians 11 is important:
But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven. For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels.
You may find it hard to believe that something that confusing is in the Bible, yet if you look it up you will find it is there.
Then there is this section from 1 Timothy chapter 2:
Also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
It is hard to miss God's meaning when he says something as direct as, "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent."
If you think about it, you will realize that God started this type of s.e.xism at the very beginning of the Bible. In Genesis chapter 17 God says:
This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circ.u.mcised. You shall be circ.u.mcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.
God makes no mention of forming any sort of covenant with women.
There are many other examples that we can find in the Bible:
• In Matthew 25:1 Jesus says: "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."
• In John 20:17 Jesus says to Mary: "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father," as though the touch of a woman is somehow improper, but a few verses later, is happy to have Thomas touch him.
• In Genesis chapter 3, God punishes Eve, and all women for thousands of years, with greatly increased pain during childbirth. No such pain is inflicted on Adam.
• In Ephesians 5:22-24 we find this: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."
• In 1 Peter 3:7 we find: "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."
• In 1 John 2:13, John says, "I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father." No mention is made of women.
• And so on. There are many, many examples like these throughout the old and new testaments.
There are other, broader examples of misogyny that are readily apparent in the Bible as well:
• Are any of Jesus' disciples women? No.
• Are any of the elders in the book of Revelation women? No.
• Are any of the books of the Bible written by women? No.
God, it would seem, wants nothing to do with women.
You typed in a bunch of stuff that if anything only proves the bible might not have come from GOD. How does anything a man writes disprove his creator if he has one. It is impossible to prove the non exisitence of something. It sounds like your arguement is against Christianity, the ones who wrote the bible. not the creator,
See Above, the deluded ramblings of a mental patient too far gone in their hysteria to understand their own circular logic.
I don't believe in the "creater" so uh......duh?
That is understandable, those without souls would not have the conection, consequently would not believe in a creator, no biggie, those with a soul, or granted one after birth feel the connection, its really no big deal
No, but King David did.
1 Kings 1 & 2: “Now King David was old, advanced in age; and they covered him with cloths, but he could not keep warm. So his servants said to him. “Let them seek a young virgin for my lord the king and let her attend the king and become his nurse, and let her lie in your bosom that my lord the king may keep warm.”
The Christian god can't even feed the starving babies on this earth today. Straight people act like we need more starving babies. They're against abortion, and socialized healthcare at the same time. Odd bunch!
The primary difference between a gay guy and a republican guy is three beers.
The difference between saved and lost. Answer Heaven and Hell
@pastor: your threat of hell and claim of heaven are both phoney, invisible products that exist only in your mind. Without them, you have nothing. What a pity so many people take the bait, get hooked, and reeled in.
Being gay has nothign to do with heaven and hell (if you believe in those). Even the chirstians agree.
No, it was Paul of Tarsus who was the big flaming gay. He wrote his fantasies about me but I never said or did those things.
Paul loved feet. He dreamt about them, collected old sandals, and loved to "wash" men's feet.
All that crap in the NT is all Paul, all the time. I was just someone he had the hots for, that's why he wrote about me using pure fiction.
Paul was a sick piece of temple trash. They kicked him out for going after poor people. Temple priests were only supposed to go after the rich.
Gay. Huh. But I never said or did any of those things. And now a bunch of smelly goyim are going around saying I'm telling them what to do. What a bunch of demon-possessed idiots. I will wipe them out when I return. You just wait!
If atheist are right then we will all vanish. If the Bible is the truth then the atheist will be in Hell
Even Jesus did not support gay marriage: Mark 10:7.
And I notice this guy is Episcopalian. Did you ever wonder why denominations like Presbyterians and Episcopalians are failing and conservative evangelical churches are thriving? Truth. People are hungry for God's truth, not people's opinions.
That's YOUR opinion.
Actually, that's the Bible.
it does not matter what jesus supported. This is not a religious issue,
For the record, I support gay marriage, just not church-sanctioned gay marriage. The government should have no right to say who can and cannot get married.
Jesus was into washing other men's feet, which proves he was gay, deal with it.
People are hungry for easy leadership. They wish for someone to do their thinking for them, or worse, tell them it is advisable not to think, not to reason, not to use their intellect and its logical paths to come to personal conclusion. That's exactly why the evangelicals do so well in 3rd world countries. There is a strong ethic in those countries to be led by those who would take advantage of them. walking with "a savior", and you've got lots of followers. It defies logic, but then, thinking means being responsible for your opinions and actions. The fun's are not having any of that.
God's plan" is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.
You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example;
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circ.u.mstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
Take a moment and think about this, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God has pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.
If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not? What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion
If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.
If God does not intend for us to perform abortions, is it then wrong that God has a plan? If God has a plan, is he not the direct cause of every abortion? Simply think it through, and you will begin to see the problems in this proposition.
Think about Adolph Hit.ler. He was evil incarnate, and Hit.ler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hit.ler is part of God's Plan." Think about this:
He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.
If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hit.ler too. Think!
You're assuming people actually follow God's plan. Do you think God's plan for Hitler was to be a mass murderer, or do you think Hitler defied God's plan and became a mass murderer?
I don't believe in God stupid.
However the point here is that, under this belief system, people do not have free will. That is the point. So they have to follow God's plan. That is the point. Sorry for calling you stupid, stupid.
I can tell you don't believe in God; I was asking a rhetorical question to point out the logical fallacy in your argument. And since I am a follower of God, I will not resort to petty insults. See the difference between Christians and atheists? ;)
You mean besides you are stupid and we are not? No, what?
polemicist, are you saying that God's plan is so fallible that we can mess it up?
God's plan is simple: love Him. Now remember that when you quote Jeremiah about "I have a plan for you", God is NOT speaking to the "reader" 2400 years later, but to the one who will carry out God's plan to restore Israel. Context is everything.
Alien, I'm pointing out that you, as an atheist, are using petty personal attacks (calling people stupid) to prove your point. You are proving that a world full of people like you would be a world full of petty insults.
A world full of people that love God? Well, I wouldn't have to point out to you the idea that insulting people is rude and offensive, like I am doing now.
No P, I am only proving that I think YOU are stupid. Where did you get all that other stuff?
Atheist: petty insults
Christian: no petty insults
Atheist doesn't understand the dilemma of preaching that atheists are "better" than a "stupid" Christian.
I'll let the court of public opinion decide who's the idiot.
I think it's clear: polemicist is the loser here. It's not hard to see through his lies at all despite his thinking he's being "clever".
Morality evolves with time! Religions have nothing to do with morality but a way to justify our cliquey moral superiority BS. Just remember Ra worshipers created one of the most advanced civilizations of its time. Today, it's Buddhism, Christianity, Hindu, Islam, Judaism, etc.'s turn.
The truth is so much more interesting and fascinating than religious fiction.
Continue to use religious dead reckoning to navigate through life and you will naturally always be lost.
Ok Zumba time, later all.
"Love thy neighbor as thy self" Christ's Golden Rule. Just think about it can you follow this golden rule and also discriminate against any one?
Go and sin no more. In the greek it means Go and sin no more.
So no response to the question?
Telling a qu-eer that there lifestyle is sin and not to be equated with civil rights is an act of love, not discrimination. There is no right to be qu-eer.
Telling a qu-eer that there lifestyle is sin and not to be equated with civil rights is an act of love, not discrimination. There is no right to be qu-eer!
Love thy neighbor.... Not thy neighbors sin
Gays are born that way. Grow up. Get an education.
If your neighbor was rapping your children. Would you love your children?
Golden rule begins with first loving God, then loving your neighbor. People often forget that one.
Which one of the commandments in the Bible CONDEMNS child molesters?
pastor, "go and sin no more"? So you're denying gays marriage because they sin? Then you have to deny heteros marriage too, because Jesus taught us that we are all sinners.
The Bible supports slavery.
The Bible supports the inferiority of women.
The Bible supports discrimination against the handicapped.
The Bible supports discrimination against gays.
At least it is consistent.
You are misrepresenting the Bible which is a common failing among your kind. God bless
"Your kind" PRETEND that the Bible doesn't give instructions about how badly you can injure your slave without punishment.
"Your kind" PRETEND that God didn't give a long list of handicaps that aren't welcome in his church like having crushed testicles.
How about a response from "your kind"?
@justsayin: perhaps you can enlighten all of us with the "correct" representation of the bible ?
No pretense needed. I know God and the FULL council of His word. I do not have to cherry pick passages so that the Bible will say what I want to hear. There is a reason behind every illustration in the Bible, often it is even explained within a few paragraphs of the passages you have misrepresented. God bless
The correct representation of the Bible = God is love. Now you figure out why. God bless
Does the Bible give instructions about how badly you can injure your slave without punishment? Yes or no?
Does the Bible give a long list of handicaps that aren't welcomed by God in his church, like having crushed testicles/ Yes or no?
Read the Bible SOMETIME.
The guy sounds like a nice person to me. I think it is important to compromise in life and society when you are trying to get along with other people. I don't mean compromise or bend what your faith says but learn to compromise for the sake of living in peace with others in society who may not share your faith or non faith. Maybe a fair compromise on the faith said would be to respect and recognize legal unions between gays to allow them the legal rights of married couples and the compromise on the gay side would be to not insist on using the word "marriage" and instead accept the word legal union or whatever other word/phrase you want to use. Doesn't that sound like a reasonable compromise? Anyone???
We all know what you'd say to a friend that had never heard of civil unions and asked what it meant. You'd reply "Oh it's when gays get M A R R I E D". DUH.
Marriage means two people making a commitment to spend their lives together. End of story. There's no need to invent a new word for it. We already have one. "Marriage".
Compromise with sin, sounds great. P.s See you in a few years.
Yours truly, devil
Not really. Government uses the word marriage to define a legal state of being. Government is secular and represents all citizens. This term is not a religious term.
Why should there have to be any compromise ? Gays are people, they are citizens, and they pay taxes. The should have all the rights everyone else has.
There is no right to perversion and sin.
Let's rename 'slavery' as 'alternative employment' and make it legal again...sounds like a reasonable compromise too.
Humans rights are not a place for compromise.
If it makes you feel better you can call it 'poodle'. We don't have to share your delusion.
So society should compromise with cult members who believe in devils, demons, angels, talking snakes and a mass murdering god who sends people to hell and solves his problems by killing ? NO THANKS !
We have, it's called "Unpaid Internship"
Apostasy number one. When Jesus spoke of the church being built it was not upon Peter but upon Jesus. False prophets are everywhere!
And you're one of them!
This is a very strong analysis, grounded in the deepest roots of the Christian tradition. I was nearly moved to tears by this compassionate reasoning. Bravo for taking the conversation to these heights. I couldn't have done better myself. - JC
You're a doo doo digger
@ abloigo, "I don't know why you want Big Government in our bedrooms, but shall we educated and enlightened people assume you also support banning un-civil activities such as American football, wrestling, hunting, mixed martial arts fights, boxing, and any warfare for any reason? What are your criteria to give you the opinion that one act behind closed doors is un-civil but beating up or killing other humans is not?"
My bedroom is not "our bedrooms"! Due the openness of thought being levelled upon the world's stages;- the moralizing civil majorities will make the rules and regulations and laws from which Life is to be lived out and upon. Sodomy itself has yet to be lawfully considered yet its' heads are now being raised! The LGBT heads of vile and wicked serpentries demise will duel with the normality of Heteralists giving rise to gender specifc episodes of lawfulness. Should all the moral minorities of civilities all be allowed legalistic procurements? A child being sensual with an adult is a civil minority and should it be lawful? Should young children be allowed to have sensual relationships with other young children? These views are where we are headed towards if civilities were to continue on towards there being civil unions of the gay crowds and I stand against such matters! Today is today and tomorrow will bring another day. Who knows what today will leave behind and what tomorrow will bring forth?
"Should young children be allowed to have sensual relationships with other young children?"
Do you have an attention span deficit? This is about consenting ADULTS.
Trying to change the topic fools NO ONE but yourself.
I got my banana clips fully loaded bring on .no doo doo digging.@ serpent good truth telling
Just as usual you Observer do take things out of "contextual understandings"!
Keep trying to PRETEND this is a topic about children or animals or incest or whatever you think you can fool someone into pretending it is something else.
Observer, if you are drinking, I suggest you slow down or even quit it for the rest of the day. Okay buddy?
I am sorry that your take is distorted. If you are a christian i know that this went against your consciouss and I implore that you think about what you say. Just because Jesus told us to love everyone is not an excuse to not listen to his word. You can still love others even if they are wrong.
Prayer changes things. .
God isn't fooled by spammers.
I'm still praying your God would strike down lightning on your head but it doesn't seem to be working.
I see you are still SPAMMING the same message for the 100000th time
Truth is never spam! God bless!
I see Just sayin' is back and commenting on his own spam post!!
Prove it. God bless
Please give no credence to any of Just sayin's posts .... anyone who would spam incessantly in every belief blog story for months on end has nothing of value to say.
Prove how atheism hurts gophers.
oh I forgot .... god bless (that makes it all better)
I acknowledge two amazing Truths. First that atheism is totally useless and second that God is available to talk with. God bless... third Truth added at no additional charge.
Please answer the question. Since you apparently support the original posting:
Why is atheism bad for gophers?
Chernoble comes to mind. Atheists have murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all the previous centuries. Add that to the total disregard for the environment and we see the same callous indifference worked out on all Gods creation, even gophers. God bless
Thanks Just sayin' that gopher answer about chernoble was one of the funniest posts all day! Oooh .... you weren't joking?! wow
Biggest mass murderer of people and animals: God
Read the Bible sometime. Read about when God murdered them.
Evidence or convincing argument please.
Question for you Chads:
Science supports morality as logical and supports this with education and evidence to include the self evident empathy most of us have inherently and the desire to live peacefully together in a community.
The Bible's idea of morality includes r a p e, murder, genocide, lies and superst i tions that support these things. Is that what you use to set your moral compass and if so, why? It is not logical. Using religion to control people and restrict the very education needed to make sound moral decisions is immoral.
Since you have totally mischaracterized both the Bible and science it is impossible to answer your question. Do you have any knowledge of either subject? God bless
Chad is too much of a coward to answer that question because truth be told, he can't
@surviving the world
The question can't be answered because both statements are false. God bless
Using mental gymnastics to excuse god for all the stupid and horrible sh!t he did in the bible is a pretty easy trick.. When christians are brainwashed into the cult as young children they have to learn this skill to keep up with the differing morals between god and humans.. They learn to always find a way to excuse god for his murder and r a p e and genocide while simultaneously believing those actions to be dead-wrong for any human..
False interpretation of the Bible which you are already aware of makes you appear as the greater hypocrite. But then you have never shown any interest in Truth in the first place. God bless
please explain to me how there is not genocide in the bible and how god does not condone it? In fact god is responsible for the mass murders of Sodom and Gomorrah, The egptians, Cannites, Amelikites, ect.... In this day and age, would you still support the complete anhillaition of another nation because they are not of your religion?
Snowdog and similar folk, you keep accusing me of taking the bible out of context. That's nonsense. Think about it, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your supposedly omnipotent sky fairy couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
The Christian book of nasty AKA the bible is loaded with very clear instructions claimed to be from your god, for you to do nasty stuff like this:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And again, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
Bob, I feel sorry for you. What are going to say to God when you meet him face to face. Are you going to call him pathetic then? You are brave in your comments now but when you are faced with the creator I would not want to be you. What do you belive in? What would you expect him to do to you with the hate you show towards him now. He still loves you no matter what you say about him. He grieves for you. So do I. The words you will say from hm is Depart from me I do not know you. He is love but he is also just in his judgement. You are choosing hell. I will never convince you and you will never convince me. When we die we will all find out.
I'm not sure what Bible you are reading, but if you find the ten commandments in Leviticus, you have a special bible!
Hello Bob, Seems like you are filled with a lot of emotional wounds. Even possibly hate towards a God that never answered your prayer. the bible doesn't contradict itself but only to does who have a wrong perspective of who God truly is. It is also taken out of context by people like you who are trying to find excuses to continue a life with out Him. If you only knew that he wants to heal all your emotional wounds and tell you that it wasn't him who causes people to loose their loves one unfairly or that you have to live with the consequences of your actions and the ones of your family.
Until you see God for the true loving God you will never understand what it is written in the bible. It is foolishness until you are willing to let go of the hate and the faliable teaching that have driven you to your perspective today.
I tell you this, You are lucky that God is not someone who thinks like you because if someone spoke to you about you like you just did about God. I am sure you would have done something worst than what was written in the bible about those who God commanded to kill because they were people who God reached out to and not only did they reject the people of God but began to commit do worst things than what God commanded his people to do.
Every one has a chance of repentance, to recognize that their is a God that is truly loving and willing to die so you can go to heaven not by what you can do but because of what he did.
My advice is to approach God with a sincere heart to understand his word and ask him to show you what he truly means in his word. The bible says that a contrite heart God doesn't reject.
As for the reason he begins to speak thru the bible is because its like been in a relationship where only one person has written letters expresing how much they love you and how you can find them. If you decide to believe that they are waiting with open arms to receive you you begin to seek that person and once you find that person. The true relationship begins. A relationship that I can tell you it is more than just reading what he said but also hearing.
You yourself can one day hear him but until you are willing to let go of the hate, and just know that he has suffered with you and knows how you feel and just wants to comfort you and use you to tell others that their is true hope only in Christ. You will continue to live a life that will only cause you to be more bitter and hateful.
Bob, it is a fallen world becuase of man thinking how you think. I can do better than God. It is a sad path to live and to think that you will attain peace of mind.
May God continue to try to reach you and may you open your heart to see that all the evidence you need is in what was created.
Anybody who worships a god that creates a torture chamber in which he tortures the majority of his own creation for eternity, should have his head examined. That creature is so vile that it puts all earthly monsters to shame. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and all murderous dictators look like sissies compared to that monster.
Remember when your mother said, I already told you once and you just didn't get it and continued protest? If you created the universe would you bow to someone's selfishness? God doesn't owe you jack. You claim He doesn't exist and treat Him as a mythical fairy, but you put enough worth into Him to put effort towards anger against Him for unfortunate events in your life. It's ok, seriously. If God tells of a place called Heaven, why do so many expect Him to grant it on Earth? Furthermore, since He does speak of Heaven, does suffering then not become an opportunity for stronger faith? (Knowing God has spoken that one is not saved or rewarded by acts but by their faith.) It's free will. And please read the OT, your second go around theory starts to diminish with the many prophesies of the coming messiah...that were fulfilled. Know your enemy better and read the Bible a few times, maybe you will decide to have less of them.
You don't seem to get it. The anger isn't ever directed at your god. There isn't anything to hate. The anger is at those that seem unable to shed their infantile beliefs. Even more to those that insist that others live by their religious writings.
It isn't your imaginary friend that is the problem, it's his followers.
Jesus hung out with 12 dudes all the time and never "had maritals" with a women. Sounds like a fanny bandit to me.
If one stops and looks at the significance of the number 12 in religion (earlier than christianity) they would begin to understand the world view during those times.
@voice shhhh that's astrology hidden knowledge.
Most of the bible is based on previous worship of the sun.
There are a lot of people who believe he was banging Mary Magdalene. I love it when inept people make statements that show what is important in their lives. Hopefully, he will not have the opportunity to procreate. We have have enough dolts in this country.
Mary should have had an abortion with Jesus. There are already way too many mexicans.
Worship Posiedon, I feel sorry for you as well. Lost soul. May God have mercy on you.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.