Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
By Mark Osler, Special to CNN
I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.
What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.
A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.
During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.
After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).
His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.
My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality
It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.
Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.
The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.
Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!
I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.
The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.
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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.
I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.
It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.
The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.
1st Corinthians Chapter 6 verse 9. Romans Chapter1 verses 18-32.
Read my post below about people who quote Corintians.
Another phony claiming to know the book. It's written very clearly in old and new testament. Let me pose a question, if you join any group and don't follow the rules, do what is required, and hold their beliefs in disdain, why act all stuned when they turn against you? The fake people try to twist religion to support any belief they have. Wake up dude, we are all sinners, salvation is available to all for every type of sinner, but you have to at least try doing what is required. For the mean time read Corinthians 6:9.
P.S. Thou Shall not add to the word and thou shall not take away from the word.
"Wake up." - that's rich coming from a buy-bull believer.
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
So, if you're a woman, shut the hell up. If you're a man, you're a pig for quoting Corinthians.
It's eve fault
lokii, you're going straight to hell for talking like you know me. I don't know you. You don't know me.
When you are cast into the outer darkness, just remember you had a choice between truth and lies and chose the lies despite all the atheists I send to you to tell you of the truth.
Don't worry about practicing your weeping or gnashing of teeth. You'll have plenty of time for that later you disgusting idiot.
"God doesn't want to punish us, but our choices make him do it. We're lucky to have his grace, we're sinners and don't deserve it" -Christian
"He doesn't want to beat me, but I'm so stupid I make him do it. I'm lucky to have him – I'm no good and nobody else would have me" – Domestic abuse victim
The psychological abuse keeps the victims stuck in both relationships.
Indeed, it is the same philosophical mechanism.
that is a prescient observation. Well said.
However, in one of the codependency scenarios only one side of the relationship is real. How hoarked-up is that?!
Interesting and clever analogy.
You're probably right that many Christians think that way.
It's perhaps healthier to realize that God would never want us to think less of ourselves than what we are. We see how we have failed when there is a better example in front of us; and this is part of the role of Jesus for
Christians. But we don't glorify God by demeaning ourselves through false humility, rather by contemplating the greatness of God. In some cases an examination of conscience leads us to recognize thinks that we've done wrong, like when our arrogance, pride or impatience hurts other people. This can be a good thing because it culminates in us seeing something about ourselves that is true.
I dont really see that God punishes us anyway. He tolerates free will. Perhaps that is some form of punishment. The evil things that occur to us in our lives are not God's doing, so I'm not sure why a Christian would suggest that God is punishing them. When a Christian suggests that God is punishing them this probably consti-tutes a lapse of faith rather than being a normal Christian mindset.
Mark Osler is going to hell for trying to talk sense using crazy talk.
Ahh heck! all of Romans chapter 1.
Read ALL of Romans and then try to tell us you actually believe and practice it.
Your wackadoo logic trail lost me when you came out with that "squishy" people bit. After that, the rest of the words you strung together seem to have been pulled out of a bucket of holy cow you're crazy.
Sorry. Trying to reply to someone and the server is doing odd things with my posts.
some letter combos trip the auto filter: const.itution va gue because of "t i t" and "v a g i n a"
That was me. I farted on the internet. Feels good man.
The author should stick to law and should not speak like a theologian
Why not? You do and I bet you don't even have a law degree.
Romans Chapter 1 verses 26 – 28
Please expand on this. They should read verses 18-32 to get the entire understanding. It is very clear.
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
Ditto for the first "prophiteering", media evangelist aka Paul.
Why not talk about a book you actually believe all of?
Try reading The God Delusion for a different perspective for once.
what a snooze-fest that was
This is a refreshing point of view from a Christian and my not being a religious person will be able to recall this article when having the gay marriage debate with Christians who are against it for religious reasons.
That being said, my opinion is that the whole argument is moot if it stems from religious reasons. TECHNICALLY this country is built on the concept of separation of church and State, so legally, religion should have no bearing on the decision of the matter.
Let those without sin cast the first stone........I am not a religious person but it is my understanding that passing judgment is a major taboo and is an act that God has reserved solely for himself.
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
Said passage, as per many contemporary NT scholars, was not said by the historical Jesus. One reason for this conclusion is that it appears no where else in the scriptures.
Actually, all of John's Gospel is of questionable historic value.
From Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus,
"Conventionally, scholarship has accorded priority to the first three gospels in historical work on Jesus, putting progressively less credence in works of late date. John's Gospel for example is routinely dismissed as a source......
"Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus. "[M]ost commentators regard the work as anonymous," and date it to 90-100."
"The authorship has been disputed since at least the second century, with mainstream Christianity believing that the author is John the Apostle, son of Zebedee. Modern experts usually consider the author to be an unknown non-eyewitness, though many apologetic Christian scholars still hold to the conservative Johannine view that ascribes authorship to John the Apostle."
And from Professor Gerd Ludemann, in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416,
"Anyone looking for the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John. "
See also http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/john.html
Anyone who thinks they can get through life without making any judgments is clearly retarded and delusional.
Anyone who wants to defer justice or judgments on the basis of lies is a sh.tstained retard and they are going straight to hell.
So we have another whiny little babby saying "oh can't we all just be polite?"
Not when you started the rudeness, sh.tstain. You're going straight to hell.
You talking to me god
Only a retarded sh.tstain on his way to hell would ask if I was talking to him. Yes, idiot, I'm talking to you.
You started the rudeness, the hate, the evil, and the insanity, therefore you don't get to complain if we fight back.
Get it? Enjoy your cancer and your lingering death of loved ones. I did that for you because you suck.
ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS:–>>>>>>>>>
First, let us eliminate the god and Christian effects from the gay union discussion with a prayer:
The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Now that we have eliminated god and Christianity from the discusssion-–>>>>
Ho-mose-xuality in the 21st century––>>>
ONLY FOR THE NEWCOMERS–-–>>>>
"Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice. "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.
From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.
I guess if God made everything perfect and easy and handed out candy and money the left would believe? God helps you get through problems not around them....I know Trayvon's mom agrees with me.
Nope. God does it through threats (hell) and bribes (heaven).
You are a sh.tstain who is going straight to hell. And if I catch you before then, you're gonna suffer pu-lenty before you die.
Just a promise from your non-existent god. You could care less about talking like an intelligent person, you stupid monkey.
Sorry, your ad hom' argument doesn't work.
Try this instead, if you had verifiable evidence that your god was real then we would believe.
sybarus, you exist. Start there.
Agreed, now continue.. I don't think that was in dispute, by the way.
Why doesn't him being here prove that every other creator god exists?
what is kind of funny to me is that i'm guessing that most of the people on this site who mock the notion of a God – and support whatever is being supported by this blog are probably pres obama supporters .... hm, who says he believes in God and calles himself a christian .... odd
He "calles himself a Christian"?
You really are stupid.
Yep. Looks like of lot of people support the guy who graduated with honors from Harvard Law School.
So he's a good liar or story seller
oh, sorry tom ... i mispelled calls ... what can i say?
So, let me get this right. Anyone who mocks the notion of a god is an obama supporter? Is that your logic?
Don't say anything until you grow a brain.
confused .... from most of the posts i've been reading, anyone who believes in a god is supposedly an idiot ... how can obama be both then?
The author should stick to law and should not speak like a theologian.
i said most ... you said anyone
Every president claims to be a Christian to appease the masses. Many aren't. It started back in the days of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
how bout you'll be the first person i'll tell when my brain has evolved ... to your liking
wow, so you're telling me that a politician will say almost anything to garner support ... do you think one could also lie and say the pollitically correct thing too?
jmac, look up ad hominem and non sequitur and revise your post.
writing is not your strongpoint
Yes politcians will lie sometime and tell the truth on other times.
This seems pointless to me.
You noticed that, too, huh? Not exactly a Rhodes Scholar, our jmac, is he?
wow ... i'm impressed by your use of words ... so you just finished your first year of university – english lit major?
Jealous, jmac? Never got past the first two years of Outer Bumfvck Community College?
so how do you know when lies or truth are being told ... is this the kind of person you want to trust, believe in?
If I stuck you in a room with 10 people: five atheist but knowlegable about the bible and five "true christians" would you be able to tell the difference?. NO!. If you can't tell who is and who isn't a christian (you can't) then you can't call anyone a non-christian who claims to be one.. got it? good.
i like you 'tom' ... you're kind of funny ... too bad you didn't feel the same for me ... unrequited love – again
if i say yes and just agree with you, will you stop being so scary?
but you are starting to warm to me a little, right?
We just had a president who talks to God all the time. He was a complete disaster who started a war for false reasons.
So do believe Bush lied or was he honest and got some miserable advice from God?
i can't wait til you take your second year classes and you can learn me some more
i like you ...
perhaps not surprisingly, i don't really trust most polliticians – of any party, for the very reasons we're discussing ... i think most have had to 'do what they've had to do' to get to where they are ... perhaps this is why jesus had little to say or do with politics?
You should be scared of me.. I was a believer for almost 50 years and a minister for much of that time.. The cool thing about atheism is that it just makes to much sense to ignore.. If you ever get where I'm at, you'll see just how easy it is to defeat any and all arguments from god believers.. It's so simple, it's amazing..
You can't tell who is and who isn't a christian.. Thus, you can't judge who is or isn't one.. Enjoy.
Oh, and consider why it is that muslim terrorists and christian fundamentalists use the same math and chemistry because they MUST, but yet any weirdo can believe anything they want to about god. Hmmm.
jmac121 is Mark, in case you hadn't noticed.
And, yes, Mark / jmac121 is going straight to hell. No charge for sending slimy sh.tstains to hell. I do it all the time.
guess this 'god' is not all knowing ... i know some marks, but not mark ... sorry
i tried to post a response earlier but not sure where it went?
i know that most of the time i'm messing around on these boards, but i am sincerely sorry to hear about your story ... disillusionment – I know, can be a horrible thing and often is rooted in deep pain and disappointment ... i have no idea what you must have gone through to get to this dark place but – even now, i'm praying that the God of all comforts would reveal Himself to you ... in my dark days and moments I take comfort from Phil 1:6 and Romans 8:28 ... He has not walked away from you – no matter how you feel, and will complete what He started in you.
jmac the hack.
i must be evolving in your eyes – moron, turd, and now hack? yeah, you like me too
You know, these little arguments and discussions are cute. Its funny to see how low people will stoop. I think the Internet has become a tool for needless aggression and disrespect. You all disagree, so get past that, quite being petty and stupid and have an honest conversion. When you all approach one another trying to beat each other to death with your 'obviously superior' knowledge, we have a gift of the Internet and Freedom to discuss these things with respect and with the interest of bettering ourselves and everyone else.
Christianity deserves no respect.
Quite the contrary.
Why don't you set the example? Maybe you could start by actually posting something of substance.
Good post I'm outta kush til the morning so I have to be an adult
That was substance Tom .they're just saying we don't have to degrade each other to make a point
Says the blind man who picked up his hammer and saw.
Blind people can echo locate
It is clear that we are living in the end times. People are turning away from God, just like the Bible predicted.
The predictions also say you are going to hell.
Still happy about all that? Too bad. You should have thought of that before you were born!
Oh, for the love of god, at least have some understanding of your own book.
Revelations was simply one of many stories floating around the Middle East at the time from a genre of literature called “apocrypha”. Apocrypha were the ancient equivalent of horror stories, written to frighten and entertain the public, much the same way that Shakespearean plays did in the 1600s and Stephen King novels do today. You have to remember that those people had no vampires, UFOs, serial killers or evil corporations to do the trick. They had to rely on what they had- gods. Revelations happened to find its way into the Bible, in the way that a Stephen King novelette might find its way into “A Collection of Modern American Literature”. We have no idea why, or who decided to include it.
Apocrypha were not meant to be taken seriously, but to entertain and, sometimes, pass on a message from the author. Unfortunately, once Revelations found its way into the Bible, this particular pulp fiction story was guaranteed to be reinterpreted by every generation since then as applying to that generation’s particular problems, perceived social ills and time in history. The early 21st Century is no exception, save that we have even less excuse for taking it seriously today.
Are you just getting the news from 2,000 years ago?
@Colin they had UFO read Ezekiel 1,and Genesis 6 some people thought they were gods really check it out.img and fiery chariots(flying saucers)
Mary your only god reference is greatly influenced by the region and time you were born and raised.
Had you been born and raised in Egypt 5000 years ago you'd be spouting something about Ra.
So in that respect people have been turning away from god"s" ever since they were invented.
Grow up, put down the religion.
ya they realized that one day people would grown a brain and realize the lies that they have been teaching for so long would be found out. YUP it's the end of the days of your stupid RELIGION
Are civil unions good enough or does it have to say marriage certificate
You're going straight to hell.
Just called God line was busy he's a heat fan.PS just asking a question
Don't talk back to me!
You're now going to hell TWICE for talking back and asking questions!
Oh, you're gonna burn to death forever until you die to death! And take it from me! I think you are a real sh.tstain of a human turd.
to get all the benefits through the government agencies, you require a marriage license. The civil union is not worth anything.
Mr Mark Osler is inferring that Jesus did not the have the moral authority to deny anyone of marriage, even if it is a gay marriage. He obviously has very poor reading habits or is biased, for Jesus told the Pharisees: "Did you not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart.”(Matt 19:4-6)
To where was Jesus referring when he said: "Did you not read that he who created them from [the] beginning made them male and female"? At Genesis 2:21-24, whereby our Creator, Jehovah God, established the only terms of marriage, that of one man with one woman, in which "a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh". This is a boundary that cannot be crossed with impunity and any who does, disregarding God's moral standards, will eventually cease to exist.
Many have no feelings of shame and therefore give support to gay marriage. It is as in the days of Jeremiah regarding the nation of Israel: "Look! They have rejected the very word of Jehovah, and what wisdom do they have?.....Did they feel shame because they had done even what was detestable? For one thing, they positively could not feel ashamed; for another thing, they did not know even how to feel humiliated."(Jer 8:9, 12)
What then was Jehovah God going to do who rejected his word and its moral boundaries, having no feelings no shame ? "Therefore they will fall among those who are falling. In the time of their being given attention, they will stumble,’ Jehovah has said."(Jer 8:12b)
Fuck your baby-slaughtering bush demon.
Thank you, TG, for your post. Peter also said, "We must obey God, rather than men." Acts 5:29. In verse 32, "And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to THOSE OBEYING HIM AS RULER. No one who practices disobedience to God and twists His own word receives holy (incorruptible) spirit.
So, gay marriage is wrong because God sends gays to hell? Then, according to that logic, there are a lot of married people who should be denied marriage rights. How do you know if someone is going to hell? Do they have an ID card saying, "Hair: Lt Brn; Eyes; Haz; Aft Life Dest: Hades"?
AMEN! Mark Osler examine yourselve, based upon scripture we can judge sin and repent of it. This article is opposite of ROMANS CH. 1 , SOLA SCRIPTURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are an idiot who can't make any sense on your own, so you just copy/past garbage from an old book of religious fairy-tales...
Lemme know how that works out for you, sport...
Fvck it.. If you think gays are going to an eternity of torment that was designed by the azzhole you're going to be giving blow j o b s to for all eternity, I'd assume you let them do whatever they want for inconsequential time that they're alive on the planet.. Sheesh!
Thank Jeebus the Founding Fathers had the brilliance to attempt to protect the citizenry from "true believers". Oh, and TG, Jesus has no authority...it's all in your head.
What I find amusing is that you use one direct quote from Jesus (which could be read both literally or metaphorically), then use Old Testament quotes to support your statement. Listen, the Jews of the Old Testament were a struggling people, and required strength in numbers to subdue their numerous enemies. I thought this was obvious, but perhaps it wasn't. Gay love doesn't produce offspring to further defend the tribe; thus it was outlawed and further proclaimed an abomination in order to continue propagation.
At this point on Earth with 7 billion people, coupled with a lack of food and resources to provide for everybody therein, perhaps it's not such a bad idea to let people submit to their respective desires rather than chastise them. Perhaps we can better manage the overall population that way. Or perhaps Nature (or what you might call God) has mandated this change in the soul of Man to NOT "...be fruitful and multiply" (Gen. 1:28).
Well done faithful servant
I guess the author has never read Romans chapter I nor understands that God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Adam. He may claim he's a Christian, but by testing his words against those of God, he clearly is not.
shut up. you are dumb.
Why quote Romans when you likely don't believe it all?
He hasn't read 1st Corinthians 6:9 either, "...Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, nor thieves nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God's kingdom."
Actually, Eve came first. The people who wrote the Bible then changed it, not able to stand the fact of a maternal society. Everything changes according to current culture.
Anyone who calls himself "The Great Spazmodius" is going straight to hell for real.
Christians think Sharia Law is immoral but impose their own Sharia Law in America.
It is immoral to impose your religious superstition on others no matter what version it is.
Says the secularist who thinks it is okay to impose their moral values on Christians, and who applauds the President as he does so.
You mean with every single president as christian and about 95% of congress as christian, you're not happy with your representation.. LOL!!!!!
And think momoya, if it hadn't been for that evil Christian heritage the country would have been so much better off... I do hope you realize I'm being sarcastic; otherwise you might think that I just said something brilliant.
You can't have it both ways.. You can't complain that the US isn't where it should be because of its god believers in all facets of politics and then complain that the US is scr e wed up because we don't have enough god believers in politics..
And yes, this country would have been better off in many ways without bible god.
Obama is not imposing gay marriage on anyone. It is a civil right. If you do not want to marry the same gender then do not.
I don't see the contradiction here. I pointed out that the current president is forcing his moral values on Catholics, which is ok according to most people here, yet complain that Christians force their beliefs on others. I pointed out that the United States which values the life of all it's citizens, that promotes and upholds freedom and science and charity happens to have a heritage in Christianity. the fact that the current administration attacks these values is not a contradiction on my part.
n8264, yes so long as the President doesn't decide that when a church refuses to marry a gay couple that they've violated someone else's human rights.
But actually I was referring to Obama's health bill which forces his pro-abortion, pro-contraceptives morality on Catholics and everyone else for that matter. Why can't catholic organizations practice the faith of the church and say that their health insurance plan would not cover abortions and contraceptives?
Why can't catholic organizations practice the faith of the church and say that their health insurance plan would not cover abortions and contraceptives?????
oh Mike Blackadder
The Catholics have a health plan???
Dragon, what's funny about Catholics having health insurance – or a catholic organization like a school having a health plan?
Step back, and observe the world in the light of what I previously said. When you sit down and contemplate it, you will see it feels right, not because it should but because it is. If you are a soul possessing a human you will see the right in it, if you are an atheist, you will understand why some ppl seem squishy, or wet eyed alot. its ok, my dog doesnt suffer after it dies, and neither will you.
That's because all dogs go to heaven
right on brother
Loyal til death
Your odd logic trail lost me when you came out with that "squishy" people bit. After that, the rest of the words you strung together seem to have been pulled out of a bucket of holy cow you're crazy.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.