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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • My Take • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Blake

    Read Mark 10- 6-9 Gay amrraige may be accepted throughout the world one day but can never be accepted by God.

    6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

    7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

    8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

    9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

    May 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • God

      I'm cool with gays getting married.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • Edwardo

      Did you miss my previous post?? God DOES NOT REALLY WANT YOU TO MARRY!
      Actually, god doesn't want ANYONE to marry:
      Why Don't Catholic Priests Marry?
      Check out this bible verse:
      An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
      1 Corinthians 7:32b–35 NIV

      May 20, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • GauisCaesar

      Edwardo, the verses you are referring to are not saying you should not marry. Try reading a whole chapter before swearing a single passage says something. That's like taking only one sentence out of someone's speech and claiming it as the whole speech.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @GauisCesar – Why do you think nuns and priests don't marry?? If you're truly, devoted to your god, he implies, but does not demand, your complete time and attention. He's ok with you marrying, but he's letting you know "he's a little bit hurt by it".

      May 20, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
  2. God

    Jesus was gay. Get over it.

    May 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
  3. Sugarmama

    Name one good thing about Sodomy?

    May 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • JWT

      name one bad thing about it

      May 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Edwardo

      If you don't know sweetie, you must be a total bore in the sack !!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • God

      Santorum

      May 20, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • JWT

      Good point there god – I always wondered where he came from, thanks for letting us all know.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
  4. Edwardo

    I think this is deserving post, at the trunk of the blog tree:
    Actually, god doesn't want ANYONE to marry:
    Why Don't Catholic Priests Marry?
    Check out this bible verse:
    An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
    1 Corinthians 7:32b–35 NIV

    May 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Darwi

      In arguing over scripture, you fail to show why none of it is worth reading.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @Darwi – that's right! My point exactly. Nothing in the bible is worth reading! Heteros act as if their god has "blessed" their relationships. It is holy, ordained, let no man put assunder. Yet, once again, contradiction rares its ugly head, in their book of hate, murder, intolerance... their god can't decide on anything. He changes is "perfect" mind constantly.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
  5. mandarax

    Snowdog and Blackadder, what both of you seem to fail to understand is that non-believers don't hate god – they may hate the way that people wield the concept of god to do justify their behaviors, but they don't believe in god and thus cannot hate "him."

    And it makes no difference whether you blame evil on god or satan, because they are both part of your make-believe world. "Evil" comes from people making bad choices that cause unnecessary damage to other people and things. Do your best to minimize your own evil and get rid of the fairy tale characters – they only blur your own innate moral vision.

    May 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ mandarax

      Is sodomy an innate moral vision? Even many "heteralists" commit the actions of sodomy as well do the LGBT crowds. Sodomy, the Act is not a natural relativism but rather a preceived want. Without one imagining such vileness the wickedry of sodomy would never be! Is it truly of people's natures to wantonly commit the actions unbecoming their precepts?

      May 20, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      my fiance says her o.rgasms during a.anl are her most intense.

      Serpent, you seem utterly fascinated with a.anl. i wonder why...
      me thinks the lady doth protest too much...

      May 20, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Bootyfunk

      Get your consort a viberator and while your at it get yourself a v.a.c.u.u.m hose to suck your spem out of your dick since all you want is pleasure!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • JWT

      Pleaseure and s e x – who would ever have guessed you could mix the two. Oh I know – dolphins.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • mandarax

      Serpent, if sodomy is all you can think of when you think of the gay community, then you're the pervert. Every time you meet a new person, do you define them how you imagine them having sex? Do you obsess over imagining what things they might do in private that you don't? I hope not, but if you don't then you are simply prejudiced. If you do, you have other serious issues.

      May 20, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
  6. modern thinking

    Well stated, JWT. Yes, allowing gay marriage is undeniably right. Marriage is merely a legal contract. It should have nothing to do with religion. I am happy to see that the majority of the US population is now in favor of gay marriage and civil unions, and about 75% of young people are. So when all the conservative old fogies finally die off, this country will be a much happier, freer, more liberal one. Besides, what are anti-gay people so uptight about? How can gays marrying each other possibly hurt them? I'll bet that most of them are closet cases. People very often scream most loudly about the same things they fear and hate in themselves. Obama/Biden 2012!

    May 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ modern thinking

      ". Besides, what are anti-gay people so uptight about?"

      The spreading of sodomy becoming a righteous societal construct maybe? Just a guess!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • tlb6432

      he references Leviticus in the Old Testament.. please reference what Jesus said in Matthee 19:1-6..

      1 When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

      3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

      4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @A Serpents Thought – Are you freakin' kidding me? You're here to convey the lie that only gays participate in sodomy? You are so full of self-rightousness, I"m surprised you can drink water. Heteros participate in anal activity, just like gays do. And I know numerous gays who DO NOT participate in it at all !!!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • Walden Becerra

      your right marriage has nothing to do with religion But it does have everything to do with God who is the Creator of all things both heaven and earth and all that is in them. you speak lies and against God and his word. if you say you Love God yet you do all things that God hates. do you really Love him or are you just part of religion.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • Edwardo

      Actually, god doesn't want ANYONE to marry:
      Why Don't Catholic Priests Marry?
      Check out this bible verse:
      An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.
      1 Corinthians 7:32b–35 NIV

      May 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Edwardo

      I did not avoid the hetero crowd Edwardo! You just insinuated I did! Not all "heteralists" commit sodomy yet some do!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      my fiance and i had a.anl s.ex last night. it was great. she had several o.rgasms.

      sounds like Serpent had a bad a.anl experience. here's some advice:

      tell your partner to take it slowly. you have to relax and want it to happen. have him talk to you. use lots and lots of lube - you really can't use too much. remember to breathe and try not to stiffen your body - relaxing is the key. a v.ibrator on your c.lit will help too.

      hope this helpful advice makes your next a.anl experience a good one, Serpent! :)

      May 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @Bootyfunk – that is hilarious. I can tell by the graphic description, you're not making it up. That's my whole point, people act like only gays participate in that kind of s ex, but I know better!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      just trying to help! hehe.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Bootyfunk

      What a sick mind you bootfunk have! You and your mated are truly sodomites! Sick sick sick! Nyet nyet nyet!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @A Serpents thought – the bible makes it clear that Bootyfunk's bedroom "is not defiling". It is holy. It is hetero. Nothing sick about it.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
  7. Will

    I would like to say, he is catholic not Christian. Christians (Like me) believe that Peter's statement was the rock, not Peter himself. Catholics believe the Pope has power because Peter was the rock.

    May 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Maya

      Episcopalians are Protestants, not Catholics, you moron.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Sam

      Not only do you not know you denominations you have fallen into that 'anyone who isn't in my branch of Christianity isn't a real Christian' trap.

      It doesn't not do much for your credibility.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • DeeCee1000

      I laugh whenever I see Christians arguing about their denominations. If your "bible" or book of fairy tales is so "clear" on things, why is it that Christianity looks more like the "Tower of Babel" than anything else? Your little book of a mess is so "clear" that Christianity is divided into thousands of denominations each interpreting the "bible" differently. You're very existence is a joke!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • James

      Anglican, Episcopalians, Assemblies of God, Baptists, Christian Scientists, Eastern Orthordox, Evangelicals, Latter Day Saints (Mormons), Nethodists, Mennonites, Presbyterians, Puritans, Seventh-Day Adventists, Unitarians, Univeralists, and even Catholics are "Christian". I may have missed some....

      May 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
  8. momoya

    If any christians had a decent argument, they'd focus on it, instead of on the imagined "hate" and "spite" they seem to see in everyone who doesn't agree with them–but not in god, who demonstrates it in every book of his "word" if you but only read without the bias of indoctrination/brainwashing.

    May 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Nooks

      Christians don't need an argument. Nobody is indoctrinated or brainwashed.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • momoya

      True, you would only need a sensible argument if you wanted to convince someone of the accuracy of your position..

      May 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Nooks

      My position is we need to understand that people make their own choices and either chose to deny or accept Jesus.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • momoya

      That'd also be the muslim's position for Mohammed and Allah.. I think that you worry about having picked the wrong god as much as they do.. I just feel the way both of you do in regards to the other.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Nooks

      Islam, has not been any where close to what Jesus preached. They even look at Jesus as a prophet but after that they are consumemed with mohammed who is not God who is not the Holy Spirit and who is not the Son of Man. He was just a man.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Finally!

      Momoya:

      Worried that we chose the wrong God? Never heard that one before. Let's assume for a moment that you are atheist (call it intuition). I'm going to apply some science here: in the end, if you're right, and there is no God, you gain nothing. If you're wrong, you lose everything. If I'm wrong, I gain nothing. If I'm right, I gain everything. So who's the worried one?

      May 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • momoya

      @Finally

      Pascal's wager is extremely stupid and has been throughly trounced by about a dozen excellent arguments or so.. If another religion can use your argument with equal force, then it's worthless..

      The muslim, to you:

      "Let's assume for a moment that you are christian (call it intuition). I'm going to apply some science here: in the end, if you're right, and there is no God, you gain nothing. If you're wrong, you lose everything. If I'm wrong, I gain nothing. If I'm right, I gain everything. So who's the worried one?"

      See how many words I had to change? 1

      May 20, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Finally!

      Is it stupid because it's true, or because you just copied and pasted it back to me? If the best argument you give is "I'm the rubber, you're the glue" then I think the debate is over.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • momoya

      @political advisor: "GWAKKKKK... vid –eee –oooooooo! GWAKKK!"

      May 20, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • momoya

      @Finally

      You're a special kind of stupid, huh? No, moron.. I'm saying that if the argument works equally well for all religions, then it's fvcking stupid as fvck.. If you're argument that Starbucks coffee is the best can be used equally well by a KrispyKreme acolyte, then it's stupid to use it for Starbucks.

      If I was doing the "I'm rubber; you're glue" argument, I'd simply tell you that you should bet on atheism because what have you got to lose?

      May 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
    • Finally!

      Momoya:

      I can see I'm hitting a chord if you are resorting to foul language. I'll give you one last bit to chew on, since I'm a special kind of stupid and I love consorting with people who like to say things like "fvck". The stick figure-drawing nose picker video guy said belief is a reaction to evidence. That is the opposite of faith. Google and YouTube don't have the answer to your eternity, friend.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      there's so many holes in pascal's wager is unbelievable that any christian still brings it up.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • I wonder

      Finally!,

      What do you think happened to the millions and millions of people who for thousands of years went to their deaths with a clay icon of Ra clutched to their chests and a mighty belief in him?!

      The god of ancient Israel has just as much probability for being real as theirs did.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • momoya

      @Finally

      You christians can always come up with a way to abandon your own argument (once it's been destroyed) and instead ad hominem or point to insults or the color of the person's hair, or the way they dress, or who they s c r e w.. Any excuse to disregard the argument will do, eh?

      May 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
  9. David

    Peter was not the rock on which Jesus' church was built. Mathew 16:18. The word Peter means a rolling stone. Peter was not the rock on which the church was founded. The gates of hell did prevail against him when he denied Jesus three times with cursing and swearing. The Rock is Himself. His own body for us, broken and bruised. Against the church built on this foundation, the gates of hell shall not prevail.

    May 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Maya

      Way to miss the point entirely.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • DeeCee1000

      Don't you just love how the Christian's "authority" on morality, their "bible", is so clear on its teachings that there are now thousands of Christian denominations each interpreting it differently? What a historic mess. Christianity has to be the messiest religion ever conceived by human-kind. They've become their own "Tower of Babel"! LOL

      May 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
  10. A Serpent's Thought

    We have "manifested oreintations" in which all societal complexities of situational life orders may be ordained from. I am just a "s.e.x.u.a.l heteralist" due certain manifestations oreintated throughout my ongoing social complexisms! To say differently would be lying and not worth its' weightiness! A gay individual likewise is gay due their manifestations' oreintationed societal complexities surmized in their life's livelihoods keeping. S.e.x.u.a.l.i.s.m is a socal oreintation the same way religion is a socially oreintated construct, Without society we could not oreintate our life upon or against a model of constructivism therefore social oreintations are the mainframes of individualities!

    May 20, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Darwi

      I forgive you what you did to your young relative.
      Your anger at what you could not control at that time has warped you badly.

      Please seek help from a qualified professional. There is still a person inside you who is worthy.
      We need that person doing stuff, not this twisted caricature you have whipped up out of the fragments of your psyche.
      And, to be honest, I'm tired of seeing your posts when they are always filled with disjointed and mangled thoughts.
      Somewhere inside you is the person you used to want to be. Seek to be that person.
      You need to heal just as much as your victim. Don't drag this out for decades. Get help.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • A Serpent's Thought

      @ Darwi

      What the fvck are you talking about?

      May 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Sadly, that's waht happens to one who lends his person to satan, the serpent of old, to be the lord of his life. Only Christ Jesus can set him free.
      But satan only yields when he must. And that is if one gives his life over to Jesus Christ. If he goes to get any other help, and his "house" be swept clean, and Christ is not invited as Lord, satan will return and bring with him even more demons to enter this man.... And his last state of being will be worse then former.
      But if Christ shall set him free, he shall be free indeed! Yet, it must be his ini'tiative to come to Christ. Christ does not force himself on anyone. He seeks out those who see their need, and humble themselves before Him. Without this condition of one's heart , nothing will change!

      May 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Darwi

      Sorry, I guess I posted that in the wrong place. And life goes on.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
  11. Adding to the List of Friends

    With the Latest News now out about the nation's largest Black organization endorsing Gay marriage and calling for an end to the hate and citing the 14th Amendment, Coretta S. King, wife of the very famous Black civil rights leader, would have been immensely happy! She was a proponent of Gay civil rights and felt it was the same kind of struggle and fight that Blacks went through to gain their own civil rights.

    May 20, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Great Endorsement

      Yes! It is great that the N_A_A_C_P endorsed Gay marriage as a basic Civil Rights issue as of yesterday!! That is prudent thinking being that they too had that fight for their civil rights where Whites cited Biblical Scriptures also to prevent them from obtaining their rights but in the end they Got Them! The same will come for Gay and Lesbian Americans who go to work, pay their taxes, raise and/or adopt children and make great parents, by the way, and Vote! It was high time for this endorsement! Thanks!

      May 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • JWT

      It is exactly the same struggle.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
  12. DiedrichKyrian

    Gaius:

    "I am curious as to how you ascertain right from wrong, and what standard you use. Being in science, I'm sure you are familar with the need to standardize terms to mean the same thing for all, especially if conducting empirical studies. The point is, let's say no God exists...how you do you know your standards of right and wrong are superior to my standards."

    See this tells me a lot already.

    Standards: Treating everyone equally (I do mean everyone). Not stealing, murdering. Having to obey the laws of the Country. Accepting other's points of view that might contradict your own.

    "It sounds like you are liberal, so my question to you is," Why is your opinion more important than mine...and why is it that you guys feel that the rest of us (over 80% of America is Christian) should bend our values to fit yours?"

    Actually more Libertarian. I am Conservative in some ways. In others I am more liberal.

    I dont ask you to bend over your values. Values *should* treat everyone equally and not have anyone feel the overwhelming wieght to conform and the peer pressure of "you're going to hell if.." or "this is the ONLY way into Heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla..ect."

    I will say this. I have pity for you. I feel absolute sadness for you right now. Just with one statement, I can tell a lot about you and I am sorry for that.

    If you need Heaven and the Bible to tell you how to be a good person. You are not a good person at heart. And that saddens me for the world right now..

    May 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • momoya

      I'm sad for the world.. I think we've already killed it.. The body's just still warm–but that will change in the next several decades.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Nooks

      You can't use that argument " what if God didn't exist"

      May 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • FJRinLA

      YOUR STANDARDS ARE FROM GOD

      Hello Dietrich,

      You sound like we could have a lot in common... you're obviously smart, but your post saddens me because it's equally obvious that you have never seriously studied the Bible because if you had, you would be able to cite the scriptures for each of your "Standards" or "Values" or "Laws".... I wish I could have a conversation with you and walk you through them. And I pray that God reveal Himself and His true nature to you because God is Love.

      You wrote: [Standards: Treating everyone equally (I do mean everyone). Not stealing, murdering. Having to obey the laws of the Country. Accepting other's points of view that might contradict your own.]

      All of which is spelled out EXPLICITLY in BOTH the Old and New Testaments. Just look up any keyword in your "standards"..... you see, a fellow believer here answered you rightly: that God is the standard. He is the law, then and now. We have a police state now because we've added too many extras to His law in disobedience to His Command not to add or take away ANYTHING from His law. The longest Psalm: 119; testifies of the importance of His Law and is summarized in Psalm 19.

      But if you only have time for one Scripture, pls read Jesus in Matt. 5:17-20 where he explains in detail how He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it.

      Jesus in His Love & simplicity, recognized that "10" Commandments were too heavy for us, so He SUMMARIZED THEM into 2.
      His 1st: To love the Lord Your God with all your heart sums up the 1st 4 Commandments and is itself a direct quote from the Old Testament; and the 2nd to love your neighbor as yourself is your "golden rule" and refers to the last 6 Commandments since no one wants to be murdered, lied to, lied about, etc.

      Again, you're smart.... but you're not smarter than Solomon, the natural author*** of the Proverbs who wrote:
      "Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
      And do not lean on your own understanding"

      So I would pray for God to anoint your eyes to see and your ears to hear His word directly from you.... The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit will guide and teach all who seek God's word for himself, so you're never encouraged to take anyone else's word for it. See Acts 17:11 about testing every teacher against the scriptures.

      You've gone a long way in your life "leaning on your own understanding"..... You can't get where you want to go like that. Solomon ends that verse like this:
      "In all your ways acknowledge Him,
      And He shall direct your paths."
      [***believers recognize God as the spiritual author of every word that made the final edit into the Bible, accepting that both the natural writers and the editors were inspired by the Spirit of God]

      May 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • momoya

      @FJR

      Many atheists have studied the bible for decades or the better part of a century.. And many atheists are extremely intelligent as the data proves.. I guess you just lucked out being so smart and clever and all in just the right ways to understand the god of the bible.. Congrats.

      May 20, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  13. Reality

    ONLY FOR THE NEW MEMBERS:–>>>>>>>>>--->>>>>>>>>>>>

    First, let us eliminate the god and Christian effects from the gay union discussion with a prayer:

    The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen

    May 20, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • Reality

      Ho-mose-xuality in the 21st century:

      "Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.

      To wit:

      o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:

      “ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "

      "Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8

      See also the Philadelphia Inquirer review “Gay Gene, Deconstructed”, 12/12/2011. Said review addresses the following “How do genes associated with ho-mose-xuality avoid being weeded out by Darwinian evolution?”

      Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions supposedly abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.

      And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.

      From below, on top, backwards, forwards, from this side of the Moon and from the other side too, ga-y s-exual activity is still mutual mas-turbation caused by one or more complex s-exual differences. Some differences are visually obvious in for example the complex maleness of DeGeneres, Billy Jean King and Rosie O'Donnell.

      Yes, heteros-exuals practice many of the same "moves" but there is never a doubt who is the female and who is the male.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • John

      Every time I get to the comment section of the religion blog, I see two names, Reality (still laugh at the irony of that name for this wingnut) and momoya (who's so fully self-absorbed that it can't see it's own conflicted nature). Now I admit that I don't get to the comment section often but every time these two are here spreading their message of atheism with as much hate and vile, occasionally disguised as "logic and reason", as they can squeeze out. I guess this is an example of the new militant, evangelical atheism that is attacking religions of all kinds. All I can say is don't try to reason with them or get drawn into a "discussion" because it won't really be a discussion since they couldn't care less what you have to say. It's like the old adage about wrestling with a pig....you both get dirty and pig likes it. They are both so completely self-absorbed that they can't see anything except the dogma they have picked up on the atheism websites that reinforces their self-love over everything. Religion has survived much worse persecution than these two "intellectuals" so take my advice and don't sink to an exchange with either. P.S. Reality, at least, will go by other names but you can see the style so treat them appropriately. Peace be with you.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • momoya

      Wow!! Thanks for the complete bullsh!t lies, Chad!! Keep it up.. Not need to apologize for lying about three people yesterday or to jesus..

      May 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • momoya

      Thank you, John.. I appreciate your concern.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Reality

      Only for the those interested in a religious update:

      1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

      “New Torah For Modern Minds

      Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
      prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.

      2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

      The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

      earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

      For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

      Current RCC problems:

      Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

      2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

      Current problems:
      Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

      3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

      This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.

      And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

      Current crises:

      The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

      4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

      The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

      Current problems:

      The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.

      5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

      "However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

      Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

      Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

      Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

      May 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
  14. DiedrichKyrian

    If you knew the Bible to be false. Excuse me, I am running on a lack of sleep right now. My apologies for that.

    May 20, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
  15. DiedrichKyrian

    I do have a serious question for the Believers.

    *IF* please take this moment to imagine a stretch your mind. *IF* there was no God, no Heaven, No Hell. *WOULD* you still be nice to your fellow man and follow right from wrong, if you knew it to be false and there was no "reward" of Heaven after you die?

    As a student of psychology and human nature, I am most curious on your answer.

    May 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Edwardo

      Once someone is "brainwashed", you can't ask them what it would be like to be "un-brainwashed". It would be like asking someone who was born blind, what their favorite color would be.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • GauisCaesar

      I am curious as to how you ascertain right from wrong, and what standard you use. Being in science, I'm sure you are familar with the need to standardize terms to mean the same thing for all, especially if conducting empirical studies. The point is, let's say no God exists...how you do you know your standards of right and wrong are superior to my standards.

      It sounds like you are liberal, so my question to you is," Why is your opinion more important than mine...and why is it that you guys feel that the rest of us (over 80% of America is Christian) should bend our values to fit yours?"

      May 20, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • Edwardo

      @GauisCeasar – You have a "mob rules" mentality. Because the majority of people disagree, or are opposed to gays having marital rights, doesn't make it "right". The definition of right and wrong is gray. My eyeglass prescription would not be right for you. I believe in "consequences". Is it wrong for me to rob a bank, to feed my family? Well, my family would get fed, so that would be a good thing... but, I would be stealing from others, hurting others, taking something that's not mine, and I would probably go to prison. So the consequences of the negative effect, supercede the consequences of the positive effect.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
    • momoya

      @Gaius

      Morality seems pretty dam simple to me: Cause the least harm possible.

      What you got?

      May 20, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • dan

      No, I wouldn't. My sinful nature would be unbridled and raise it's ugly head.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • jungleboo

      Gaius, the Christian fundamentalists do not own The Golden Rule. The idea of being kind to your fellow man as you would wish him to be to you is found all over the world, and does not require the additional belief in all the hootenanny of organized religion. If there were actually a teacher who raised consciousness in the Middle east 2000 years ago, good for them. Human beings are raising their consciousness all the time. That's the history of the human race. It includes women's suffrage and civil rights. The dogma that Christians carry forth is not anything more than future fodder for food fights. The Golden Rule does it. it belongs to the human race, and that's it. No fear. Just fair.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • momoya

      If the buy-bull nonsense it the only thing keeping your from acting like an immoral cretin, then by all means stick with it.. Just rest in the fact that only bat-sh!t crazies need such flimsy and contradictory reasons as you require.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • momoya

      my comment was for dan

      May 20, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • Chad

      "*IF* there was no God, no Heaven, No Hell. *WOULD* you still be nice to your fellow man and follow right from wrong, if you knew it to be false and there was no "reward" of Heaven after you die?"

      =>Well, if there were no God, there wouldnt be "right" and 'wrong" there would just be opinions, so your premise is flawed to begin with.

      and, of course, the universe wouldnt exist, nor life, nor humans with out a creator.

      So the real questions are:
      1) how can there even be a universal understanding of "right" and "wrong" without a creator
      2) how can purely random genetic mutations preserved by natural selection have resulted in the desire to do "right" even amongst those that do not believe in life after death? Of what benefit is it to a person to jump in to a river to save an enemy?

      May 20, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • momoya

      @Chad

      Yesterday you proved yourself as a total azzhole LIAR.. Keep lying for your jesus, little fvckwad.. I mean it.. Let's see some more of those whoppers you're so good at displaying for everybody.. Let's go.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • dan

      What you fail, and I do mean fail, to understand is that you too would become an "immoral cretin" were it not for the restraining power of God in this present world. But I realize, you have no comprehension of what I say.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:22 pm |
    • momoya

      What we humans deem "morality" is simply a philosophical concept detailing our concern for others within our social group as we assess them through humble empathy.. This occurs in all social groups of animals, humans included..

      Morality is PERFECTLY explained simply by the structure of the evolutionary process and the mechanics of social networking.. One of the simplest things to understand by merely observing nature.. It takes a diseased mind to pretend that morality is dependent upon some unseen, unproved, unknown being.. It'd be like claiming that a person can't sneeze unless he believes in Zeus.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • Chad

      also, there is no reason to think that if a particular Christian stopped believing in God, then they would completely stop doing "good" things, right? After all, there are some atheists that do "good" things.

      There are grumpy Christians, happy Christians, giving Christians, stingy Christians, a wide swath.. The only thing that can be said is that in general, Christians give a great deal more to charity and volunteer more than atheists.
      From my experience, I dont see any Christians that are doing those acts out of fear, "at the point of a gun" so to speak.

      The indwelling Holy Spirit transforms Christians, which results in "better" behavior when you average the entire population.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
    • momoya

      @dan

      I may have preached words similar (but much better and with decent argument) for the christian church for several decades.. It is you who do not comprehend your own belief and the bias you employ.. Good luck with your brain virus.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • dan

      mom. And good luck with your unbelief, I hope it serves you well in the end.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      If I knew that there was no God, no heaven and no hell then I would presume that my nature might not be exactly as it is today. This is a small flaw with your question, but I'll answer anyway. I would presume that I would be good to other people because it is in my interest to do so. I think it is even possible that I might naturally feel compassion for other people (such as suffering people in China), but I would probably figure that this is some strange extension of a natural feeling of compassion which is a beneficial trait towards my children and my friends.

      So I might be perplexed as to why I care about other people with whom I have no association. I would realize that this is an irrational hang-over of evolution and so I might learn to defeat this compulsion intellectually. Therefore, it would make sense that I would be good to others so long as it is rational to do so, otherwise I would act to avoid pain for myself and increase my pleasures. If I happened to be fortunate to have all of my needs provided for and if it made no difference at all to me whether I did something to help someone with whom I am not associated, I might very well as a nihilist choose to do something good for others simply because why not?

      May 20, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • DeeCee1000

      Actually "dan", we live in a country that has something called "laws". . . and your mythical "god" is a scam. Now go &*ck yourself.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • momoya

      @Mike

      Your second paragraph exactly outlines the reasons countries and people can so easily go to war with others they do not have direct relationship with.. The longer the distance and the more disparate the peoples, the easier it is to regard them as dissimilar to yourself in such a way as to make killing them seem like less of a crime/murder.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • mandarax

      Chad has been exposed as a liar over and over. He uses quotes out of context, exaggerations, manipulations, and outright lies to try to lure people into futile debates. As infuriating as his BS can be, I recommend not responding to him at all.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • momoya

      @mandarx

      Yeah, but he lies in order to be able to lick god's b a l l s for all eternity while he smells the smoke of the tormented coming through the ventilation system in god's throne room.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • Kevin

      Without a widely accepted foundation of ethics there is no baseline for right or wrong. Despite your belief in God, today's culture is still founded upon religious principles. Why should I not kill or steal if I have the bigger fists or sharper teeth?

      May 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • JWT

      Such morals kevin are not solely the product of christianity and the bible, nor of religion at all.

      May 20, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
  16. n8263

    Christians consider Sharia Law immoral but impose their own Sharia Law in America.

    No matter what version, it's immoral to impose your religious superstition and deny others civil rights.

    May 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Edwardo

      Well said ! I can't even add to your statement, because it hit the bulls eye.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • Darwi

      They likely do so because they either do not understand how our laws work or they are domestic enemies of the USA deliberately seeking to undermine our country at every level.
      Ignorance or treason, the results are the same: Our country being attacked from within using religion as the main thrust.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Dan

      Butt s&x is not a civil right. I'm not religious but I did have an imaginary fried when I was a kid.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • momoya

      I guess it's a good thing this isn't about but s e x, but about the legal status of marriage, then..

      May 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • DeeCee1000

      "Dan", actually this country's government doesn't have the right to regulate what goes on in people's bedrooms. And I'm pretty sure you're a real freak if you are THAT worried about what other consenting adults do in their bedrooms. Perhaps you should become a cult leader, you seem to have the right mindset for the job. . . .get a life.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Heard this one before (in this thread I believe). May as well respond differently this time just for fun.

      So obviously it is immoral to impose laws. This is your argument? You don't want to try to qualify that statement?

      May 20, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
  17. NotSoHumblePie

    "Lord, save us from your (Christian?)Followers."

    May 20, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • DeeCee1000

      Christianity has convinced me beyond any doubt that there is no God.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
  18. GauisCaesar

    So...this article shows that Jesus didn't consider almost anything a sin. Okay, that completely ignores most of the NT and virtually all of the OT. And those out here that call it hate are out of line! No one is calling for hate to gays.

    May 20, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
    • Edwardo

      Voting against my rights, is a hateful thing to do, to myself and my children. It is a direct attack on us. And an attack on someone (my family) is an act of hatred.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • GauisCaesar

      Well, I don't hate you or your family buddy. And I am for your support of legal and tax benefits. Unfortunately, I do not see gay marriage as marriage, and calling me a hateful bigot will not change this.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • EnjaySea

      Those opposed to gay marriage are trying real hard to paint their intolerance as something more benign. They would have us believe that it's just the redefinition of marriage that upsets them.

      If I were stupid, then yes, I'd buy that. But I know that the real reason they oppose it is that they don't want homosexuality to be sanctioned. And that, my friend is intolerance, no matter how you'd like us to believe otherwise.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • Cq

      Sin, for Jesus, was following the OT Law, right? He was a Jew and that was how they still define "sin", but he also broke the OT Law saying that it was made for men, not the other way around. The Law that states that gayness is a sin is part of the OT Law. Paul remained a Pharisee, a strict observer of the Law so, of course, his personal opinion was that it was still a sin. Most modern Christians are not also Jews, so does the OT Law still apply to them? Paul didn't think so, right?

      May 20, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • Edwardo

      I didn't call you any names. I'm just saying that you have a "mob rules" mentaility. If the mobs still ruled, we would have slavery still, women couldn't vote, etc. etc. Being granted marital rights, would have zero effect for you and your family, but would have a positive effect on mine.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:14 pm |
    • Nii

      CQ
      Jesus did not say the moral law was dispensable. He ranked the law according to the spiritual, moral and ritual. The Sabbath laaw is a ritual law and he said was superseded by moral n spiritual law. I admire your effort tho keep it up. You are learning interpretively now.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Nii

      CQ
      Second Gentile Jews per the Jerusalem council must obey spiritual and moral law and about three provisions of ritual law but can ignore the rest of the ritual law.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • Cq

      Nii
      What are "Gentile Jews"? I think you mean Gentile Christians, and the Jerusalem Council basically boiled down to how kosher Christian food was to be, yes?

      May 21, 2012 at 12:19 am |
  19. n8263

    Christians should care as much about what the Bible says regarding homosexuality as they do about how it commands parents to stone their disobedient children to death.

    May 20, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • GauisCaesar

      I think you meant that the other way around.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • momoya

      Seems like it works perfectly either way to me.. Except for christians who really want to slaughter their children.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • n8263

      Christians should care about as much what the Bible says regarding homosexuality as they do about how it commands parents to stone their disobedient children to death.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
  20. Nii

    COLIN
    Decisions made with hatred is a the surest way to ruin. Ask yourself why so many died in Iraq. Make sure u r not supporting gay marriage cos u hate Xtians cos thats stupid and it is not an insult.

    May 20, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Colin

      I don't hat Christian, Nii, I hate what Christianity (or any religious belief) does to otherwise smart people though.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
    • JWT

      I support gay marriage because it is undeniably right. I have nothing against christians at all until they get some burr on their ass about how their religious stuff overrules people not of their particular little group. They they need to be fought to keep society from becomeing as hateful as they are.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
    • Cq

      Nii
      Equally valid is making sure that you aren't opposing gay marriage because you hate, or are otherwise prejudiced against gays, right? Now, how many people do you suppose are against gay marriage without harboring strong feelings against gays and those who support them? Judging from this board, not many.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • Edwardo

      It's not you (or Christians) I hate, it's their religion. I don't hate teenagers, but I hate teen pregnancies (unwanted that is). My sister's are Christians. They think "I'm wrong", they think "I'm going to hell". I love them. I would take a bullet for them. They know I don't hate them. They also know how I feel about their religon.

      May 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Nii

      It is philosophically impossible 2 love de master n hate his dog. I LOVE AMERICANS COS I LOVE AMERICA. I don't see how 4 all that Xtianity has done 4 America u hate it. Atheism is a good religion 4 u but that doesnt mean its 4 everyone. I wish everyone was spiritual enuf 2 see beyond religion.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • Nii

      An old lady n gentleman stoning their full-grown man of a son 2 death on their own is stretching it. Disobedient children were very safe.
      It was de parents duty 2 see 2 it that their rebellious children were kept in check. If they cudn't then they must hand them over. How gangsterism wud've vanished

      May 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.