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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. SAS6907

    “Difficult Times Will Come”

    3 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, [a] haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of [b] godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who [c] enter into households and captivate [d] weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the [e]knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as [f]Jannes’s and Jambres’s folly was also.

    10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, [g]perseverance, 11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! 12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is [h]inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for [i]training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Bet

      I can cut and paste large sections of Winnie the Pooh here, it doesn't make him a real living bear. Although he makes more sense than your god does.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Blah blah blah. Take your idiotic book of fairy tales and shove it. It isn't MY moral authority. You're disgusting book that shows you how to be a bigot and discriminate against fellow human beings belongs in the garbage. Burn the m^%ther f^%cker.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      DeeCee1000 you are such a caring and understanding person. I greatly appricate the filth in your posts. Could you use a beer, or a seditive?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  2. Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

    I think these religious people who want to keep people from living their lives lack a faith in God. Don't you believe God will be the one punishing them? If that is the case, let him deal with it. If you feel you have to be his police force here on earth, you must not have much faith in God's ability to judge.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • GvilleT

      Yes, a won't he also be punishing those who hide their prejudice, bigotry and ignorance behind Him and His Word.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:05 am |
  3. SAS6907

    The devil is a happy camper these days, since all these things concerning morality.
    Ironically the man who the writer talks about is the very one who tells us about this type of person.
    Let's not forget we were forwarned about this day, and the very Word of God this man is talking about fortold us:
    2 Pteter: 3
    14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Bet

      The Easter Bunny is a happy camper too. He's finally done passing out all those chocolate crucifixes.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • YeahRight

      The devil is a happy camper these days, since all these things concerning morality."

      Oh you mean when people have to point out to the Christians that they came to this country murdered the Native Americans, stole their land, enslaved African Americans who then had to fight for their rights, then they were treating women like crap and they had to fight for their rights. Yeah...Christians keep getting their morality wrong over and over again. Duh! The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      May 21, 2012 at 11:11 am |
  4. If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

    I have not a doubt that religion is simply a side effect of our human ability for self aware abstract thought and our need to comprehend the yet incomprehensible in our universe. Religion comes from our own minds, so I find it rather humorous every time there's an article on what religion says about anything.
    We're really only debating our own (socially collective) mind in the form of an anthropomorphized God(s).

    May 21, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • tony

      Everyone's head contains their own god. The fallacy of religion is that all the gods, of similar ilk, inter-communicate.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Did that make sense when you wrote it, tony?

      May 21, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      "Religion comes from our own minds" Just your opinion. It may be true for you but not others.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Well, the earth was flat at one time and it was true to believers because the bible says so. . . .but it is NOT flat.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Bet

      Rob – Your religion came from a man's mind, probably not your own, you don't seem bright enough. You probably think exactly the same thoughts as the preacher you give money to every Sunday.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

      Yes, Texas Rob, it is my opinion .. backed up by reason, probability and some of the greatest minds (not that I'm one of them) from all of human history.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      Bet- Since you don't know anything about me, it’s pretty moronic for you to make that statement. Since you don't personally know where religion came from, you sound pretty ignorant as well. You claiming so does not make it true. You would say the same for all religion, so you have to hold yourself to the same law. There is allot of archeological evidence of many things in the bible, so what part do you think is in my mind? You don't know me, my experiences, my age, my beliefs, etc, etc. etc. You also don't know that religion was created by man. So claiming it as fact is no better than anyone else.
      In addition, Deedee, there is nowhere in the bible where it said the earth was flat. It was know not to be flat in ancient times, and then that knowledge was lost and man believed the world to be flat. There are a great many things that ancient humans had great knowledge of that escapes us today. We think we are such evolved beings, yet we are horrible at transferring knowledge and collectively forget knowledge daily. So you can assume that you are so intelligent that you are all knowing and everyone else is wrong. You could start of by telling people, I believe: ___________. Then it is recognized as your opinion or philosophy or even your agenda.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:52 am |
  5. AZ Wildcat

    Time to start throwing Christians to the lions again.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • PoliticsProf

      That was one of the single greatest moments in history because so many saw the power of God to give His people peace and courage in the midst of unimaginable suffering. Why do you think so many jaded, crual Romans converted at those events?

      May 21, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • momoya

      @Political

      So you're in favor of throwing Christians to lions, too.. huh.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      While that would be nice. . .I wish idiots like you would go look up Christian church history. Start by looking up the 600 yr Inquisitions. You're "god" is the worst mass murderer that ever supposedly lived. Your church is disgusting.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • tony

      A lot of slaves preceded the Christian apparently. The Roman governors weren't that bothered about the victims religious affiliations back then. The show must go on!

      May 21, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      DeeCee1000
      Don't mistake God for what man has done in the name of God.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Right. "God" decided to destroy all of humanity including innocent babies in a "flood" simply because he can. . .and continues to let millions of babies starve to death. Your "god" is the biggest a^%hole ever conceived.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Bet

      PoliticsProf – Please provide citations for your claims that so many Romans converted.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:09 am |
  6. clubschadenfreude

    This effort to come up with a Christian "case" for gay marriage just underlines that Christians and other theists can't agree on what their god "really" has meant and that this religion is just more baseless nonsense created completely by human beings. Just dump these sets of primitive myths totally. What a waste of time to try to get such things to make any sense.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      Please enlighten us with more of your great wisdom.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Yes, Christians claim that their bible is "very clear" on sin and other things. . .but yet for some reason there are now thousands of different denominations all interpreting the same book differently. Go figure. Christianity: the biggest mess in the world's history and most followers are too dumb to figure it out.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:18 am |
  7. If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

    Churches/Religions don't need to perform marriage rituals for anyone they don't want too, but our Gov. needs to allow marriage to all consenting adults in this country.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  8. DeeCee1000

    John, you're such a typical religion moron. . .you're comparing murderers to gay people? You're brain is so f&^cked up by your idiotic bible that you can't even think right. Go shove your evil bible up your a^%hole. And while you're at it, read up on your Christianity's long disgusting history. The Judeo-Christian "god" is the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world. You and your idiotic religions are in no way any moral authority nor should they be.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • momoya

      The pill may be a jagged one, but it'll do you good.. Gulp it down, christards.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • John

      I make it a practice not to have anything shoved up my a$$

      May 21, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I doubt you could get anyone to do much of anything with your ass unless you paid for it, John-john.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • John

      So....
      Once again...maybe you could explain what it was about the article that intrigued you?
      Maybe you were hoping that once and for all someone had figured out a winning argument...wrong
      Maybe you were hoping that you could finally rest with your condition...wrong

      You don't have to change or live differently...you only need to look to God for acceptance but that won't happen as long as you think the answer lives with you...it doesn't.
      I hope you find peace but I can promise you it will only come when you accept ALL of your brokenness and realize that your transcended perfection is as easy as asking for a new spirit...
      Not this one in you now that keeps telling people to do nasty things

      May 21, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You seem to be unaware that hetero couples engage in anal s3x, John. Are you by any chance a virgin? Or just celibate?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      People like John appear to be against gay marriage because of the "icky" factor.

      Sorry, Johnny, but what you find disgusting is your problem. There's a simple solution: don't engage in it if it's so disturbing.

      And stay away from boards where it's being discussed. That should work, too. Why is it you're so fascinated that you can't seem to do that?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • myweightinwords

      @John, Funny then how it is that I only found peace when I accepted that I was whole and beautiful, worthy of love without the vile concept of another dying horrifically to drench me in blood to make me worthy.

      It was an amazing thing, to finally, after many, many years as a Christian, to feel LOVE in my life.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      John is obviously a "str8" man obsessed with gay seks. Been thinking about it often Johnny? From all your posts, it certainly looks that way. . . .just sayin'. Maybe the person who needs to look within themselves is you buddy boy. . .I suggest a good therapist.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Rob- Texas

      "You seem to be unaware that hetero couples engage in anal s3x" All heteros do not engage in this practice.
      My guess would be that people that have not interest in this act are the people who find same s3x unnatural, unclean, or what ever you want to call it. I would guess that its hetero's that like this act, are more open to same s3x acts.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And upon what statistics are you basing this 'guess'? You and John must be very young.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:37 am |
  9. TheOne

    When this gay marriage issue is viewed Religiously, which it is a lot, I guess their is evidence on both sides for 'no' it is wrong, and 'yes' it is not mans judgement to deny the marriage. But, how many gays want to get married in the church because of their strong religious beliefs ?

    May 21, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      This is really dumb since Civil Marriage has nothing to with religion.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • myweightinwords

      There are more religions in this country than Christianity.

      And yes, there are gay and lesbian Christians who would like to be married in a church.

      The problem is, this isn't a religious issue, but a civil one. Marriage is, first and foremost, a civil contract. The license comes from the state. The rights and benefits of marriage are conferred based on that license. The religious ceremony is a social construct designed to infer a particular god's favor upon the couple.

      If your god does not favor gays and lesbians, then your church will not offer such ceremony to them. They can either turn to a church/synagogue/temple/grove/coven/assembly that will offer the ceremony to them, or have a quiet civil ceremony without religion involved.

      I really do not understand why this is so difficult to understand.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:05 am |
  10. jungleboo

    In case it got buried, Momoya, thank you for the wonderful video on morality. You should post it regularly so that this idea may spread. Fundamentalists are quite unused to new ideas, because their modus operand is to keep their faces inside the same book and read and re-read the same passages again and again. There is a sense of safety in their activity (because it never changes), as well as tremendous room for fantasy (because the foundation is so much shifting sand.) Your video, on the other hand frightens them, because it deals in rational thought, a pastime which is not allowed to them in their meetings, nor in any aspect of their fables.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • momoya

      Yep.. That's sound logic.. I did reply to you on the vid "thread" on the last page. :)

      May 21, 2012 at 10:43 am |
  11. Dr_Loomis

    Very well put Mr. Osler, too bad more Christians don't think the same way.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I'll wager that a lot of Christians feel this way. They just aren't spending their time arguing with anyone on some forum no one cares about. They're busy doing what their Christ commanded and not pretending to be Biblical scholars or God's Keystone Cops.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:40 am |
  12. Jerry

    Couple of points. I think the writer has a good heart, though he does err. God did not build his church on Peter, a man, he built his church on Jesus Christ, the eternal rock. In addition, you can not match with scripture the sanctification of open sin. Sin, by scripture is sin, an affront to God.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Not everyone interprets the Bible as you do. What makes your interpretation correct and theirs incorrect?

      The arrogance of some of you is just incredible.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • tiffany

      says you

      May 21, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Jerry

      Tom, Tom The Pipers son, I don't mean to seem arrogant. I just study the scripture, and have for years. Christ is the eternal rock. All men, Christian and non-Christian, have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. It is not by our works that we are saved, but by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. Because he is alive we all have hope, who hope in him. But it is not me that speaks, but sin is sin. The Bible is clear. I am sorry I can not tell you what you want to hear.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Yeah, eating shellfish was once "an abomination to god". Go figure. No wonder Christianity is so fractured. Thousands of denominations each interpreting the "bible" different ways. The bible is anything but clear on things. Why the heck do people even follow that idiotic thing?

      May 21, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • H

      Absolutely right, Jerry. These points are stated clearly in the Bible.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Jerry you're an idiot. Maybe its time you take your nose out of Bronze Age scriptures and open a science book. . .use your brain for a change.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Primewonk

      @ Jerry, If your bible was clear, why do you spend decades studying it? Why are there thousands od different christian sects who all believe you bible says different things?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • Aaron

      @DeeCee

      Could you open a science book and give me the answer on how mitochondria, the power plant of the cell, came to exist? Last I heard (M.S. Biomaterials 1999), the theory was that it was an "incorporated" bacteria type. So, the cell needs the energy that the mitochondria creates (ATP for those not reading their science books)? Where did the cell get the energy to integrate the bacteria type in the first place? Chicken or egg?

      I'll take evolution of the human eye in response as well. If something could not see, how did it know that it needed to? Oh, the mutants with photo-reactive cells lived longer. The mutant population was what percentage of the total population...the stats on survival there are?

      If that doesn't help: when did certain single cell organisms decide to be plants and others decide to be vegetation eating animals? And then those decided that some should just be pretty and some should bear fruit?

      Christians believe because of what they have seen God do in their lives. Many of us remain believers when we test the theories and models from the secular world and find them lacking.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @Jerry: if the Bible was "clear" then everyone would see it the same way. They don't. And your interpretation of it is no more correct than mine or anyone else's. You aren't God, you don't know what God thinks, and you're not his cop on Earth.

      @Aaron: Again, simply because we don't yet know how something came to be it does NOT follow that Goddidit.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:53 am |
  13. Nayrb

    If ga y s want to marry; no problem. Move to a state that has passed g a a y marriage. Easy solution.

    ...and Marriage is still a privilege, not a right.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • jungleboo

      No, Narb, you will not require me to move to another state, away from my family, my friends, my job, and my home. Nor will I ask you to move to North Carolina. I am decent enough to know that that would be a cruel and inhuman resolution to your problem. Civil Rights for all in America.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Kevin

      Or nayrb, you could move to a country where bigotry and hatred are able to be enshrined into law with no protections for minorities if you don't like it here ... like an African nation or an Arab one.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:47 am |
  14. Gary

    It would seem that Mr. Osler, like 75-90% of professed Christians, really does't understand Christianity and being a Christian really means. Christians are called to love all, but that love is not to encourage sin but rather encourage Christ likeness. If the scriptures then call upon us to love one another, but also declares a particular activity sin and evil in the , then promoting the sin by officially recongizing it as an acceptable form of behavior is in itself sin. That position is anti-Christ. No other way to cut it.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Kevin

      Because clearly you are the authority on Christianity and the millions of other people who believe differently than you are wrong!

      May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Jerry

      Amen Gary, well said.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • momoya

      I wonder why god allows so much confusion here on earth about his nature and will?? He figured out how to communicate math and chemistry so well that both muslim terrorists and christian extremists MUST use them both in exactly the same way, but yet anybody can believe anything about god.. What kind of idiot makes such stupid decisions??

      May 21, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Aaron

      @momoya

      Really..chemistry and physics as a logic argument against God? Go ahead and give me a logical evolution of the human eye. Or, mitochondria? Or why does the back human skull stay soft in the womb until birth when it can solidify? That would have had to not work one time and evolutionist arguments would not even have happened.

      Have you read the Old Testament? Romans? It's there: we have been given over to our selfish desires due to us rejecting God for false gods. Sure, we believe in gravity because it hurts when we fall. I pray that you don't end up believing in God only when it is too late. Because, like gravity, He is real. Some of us just haven't realized that yet.

      Peace.
      Funny that the majority of anti-God slogans and bumper stickers I see are intolerant of God and those who believe in Him and point to our intolerance as Christians. Happy to discuss things other than straw men.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So anything you can't understand perfectly or do not know "MUST" be evidence of God?

      Brother. Same old, same old.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Aaron

      Nope. I see the evidence in the science. I can explain it: God. I understand molecular genetics to the point of knowing it had to have been setup, rather than accidentally stumbled upon. The shear length of the code in each of our cells is staggering. At some point there has to be a first cause. Those trying to explain God away are having a hard time with that part of it.

      Same, old...funny. I'll step out and let the same old arguments against God flood the discussion.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Uyup. Really convincing, Aaron. Especially the bit about "shear". Write back when you actually have a clue. The fact that you don't 'get it' doesn't mean a god is the explanation for its existence.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
  15. Religious doctrine VS people's morality

    Religion should not impose its doctrine on a nation, but a majority can and should impose its morality on everyone in that nation, equally and fairly. It's called freedom and equal rights.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, it is not. People do not get to "impose morality" on others. They pass laws that protect their rights from infringement. Has nothing to do with morality.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Furthermore, the majority do not have the right to impose their will on the minority if doing so infringes on the basic rights of that minority.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • David L.

      Tom, I couldn't have put it better myself. That was the foundation of America, and we need to protect that from these moralists. Morals are values that you teach to your children, to raise them the way you wish. They are not to be forced on to others.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Bet

      As of 2010, there were 157.0 women in the USA, and 151.8 men, this means that women are in the majority. So women should get to pass laws to impose our wishes on men. I propose men get to make $.75 for every dollar I make even if they are doing the same job.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:57 am |
  16. ChristopherM

    There are dozens of Biblical admonitions against straight folks, and only 7 or so against gays. This doesn't mean god loves us more, just that we need less supervision.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Gary

      Makes good sense to me.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • momoya

      What a great perspective! I love it!

      May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • jungleboo

      Thank you for this point!

      May 21, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Leo

      The problem with your point is that you have a misconception is that other admonitions are only for straight folks?

      So the Ten Commandments aren't for you???

      May 21, 2012 at 11:04 am |
  17. Ting

    For all of you whiners who think that CNN only posts articles that are in favor of gay marriage, there is a new one at the top of the home page that was written just for you.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:33 am |
  18. Let it be.

    JESUS: "Okay here's an idea. You love them like I loved you, feed them clothe them and shelter them, and let me deal with judging them."
    FOLLOWERS: "But what if they're gay or follow other gods?"
    JESUS: "Did I stutter?"

    (Borrowed from https://bobbiblogger.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jesus.jpg)

    May 21, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really. The number of thumpers on here who think their omnipotent sky-fairy requires a cadre of cops to enforce his rules is laughable.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • PoliticsProf

      Unfortunately, this kind of "love" is not love at all because it negates the need for the Cross as God's means of saving sinners. The cross perfectly marries God's justice and mercy, but you have portrayed an incomplete picture of that, and therefore show that you do not understand the rudimentary aspects of faith in Jesus as the Christ.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If God needs your help to judge others and control their "sinning", he's a pretty lame character.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Let it be.

      @ PoliticsProf – I'd refer you to 1 Corinthians 13 for a good definition of love. Seems pretty consistent with the content of my original post.

      @TomTom – Bug off... I'm a theology major not a religious fanatic. You're wasting your time arguing with someone whose stance you have little understanding of.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      OOOOOooooooh. "Bug off"? If you're so certain of your immense scholarship, honey, you will ignore my posts and go on about your merry way.

      I suspect you are nothing of the sort, or you wouldn't be ending a sentence with "of".

      May 21, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      You missed the point PoliticsProf. The point is, don't judge them. Let them make their choices. You don't have to like what they do, but show them love and respect and let them live their lives.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What cracks me up, Let it Be, is that you're so stupid you didn't even manage to figure out that I was commenting from your side of the field in support of your post.

      Maybe you should take a class in reading comprehension.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:54 am |
  19. OneVoice

    There's another way to look at it. May gay people claim to be "born this way." From my understanding of the bible and the words of Jesus I'd have to agree with them. They are born this was in the same way I was born a fornicator, a liar and a self serving egoist. We're all born this way. We're born members of a fallen race needing salvation. Thankfully, Jesus also said, "you must be born again," and he provided a way for this to happen. Faith in him, and the cleansing power of his blood, leads to spiritual birth and freedom from the sin that binds us and separates us from God. Many, many former sinners (former gay people included) can attest to this fact.

    May 21, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • JWT

      Fornately I have freedom from sin and an not fallen – and all without your god.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Where does the Bible ask you to forgo marriage to the person you love? Being gay is not a 'sin' or a 'crime'; it injures no one. Idiots like you just make Christians look worse and worse.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Kevin

      There are no "former" gay people ... only people who desire to live a celibate lifestyle. I would think by now we should all know you can't "pray away the gay" no more than you can pray to change your skin color or pray to bring a loved one back from the dead.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

      Yup, that being born again cleansing thing is working so wonderfully for so many ordained Priests out there.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • GvilleT

      former sinners???? What church do you go to. I'm a born again Christian and sin every day. Thank God for Jesus and thank God he loves ignorant people too.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Bet

      Your argument is invalid. People who lie or fornicate are not denied the right to marry the person they love.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Primewonk

      Being born gay is an innate natural variant of human sèxual orientation. No one is born a fornicator, and it isn't an orientation. No one is born a liar, and it isn't an orientation. No one is boen an egoist, and it isn't an orientation.

      You, like most fundiots (fundamentalist îdioits) don't have a freaking cue about the science involved here, do you?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:52 am |
  20. momoya

    General note to everyone:

    I could not be more pleased with the sort of christians that come to these discussions.. Their intelligence and argumentation are so poor as to be irrelevant in the actual debate of logical and consistent ideas.. I'm encouraged with the sheer number of atheist posters and their fantastic arguments (about 75% very, very reasonable), but I'm probably just as encouraged by the believer posters and their horrible, nonsensical "arguments?" (about 95% very, very unreasonable)..

    It's gonna be a bright, bright, bright sun shiny day!!

    May 21, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • tony

      There's a very high probability of the Sun rising tomorrow to justify that faith.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • momoya

      You don't seem to understand either physics or faith.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • Bet

      There's a very high probability that I will make a poo poo today too. Does that help justify your faith as well?

      May 21, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • tony

      Oh come on.
      Dicitionary 2.
      "belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact."

      I can't prove that the Sun WILL rise tomorrow. Nor can you. If something nasty flies into the Solar system and into the Sun near to light speed, it could upset the whole apple cart.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      Unfortunately momoya, as long as these ridiculous religious people with their idiotic logic are affecting policies, it will not be a bright sunny day.

      May 21, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • momoya

      @Tony

      I can make reasonable conclusions about probabilities.. I don't have faith in the sun rising tomorrow, I simply assume it will as it has about a gagillion, trilliion times before now.. It's a reasonable assumption.. No faith is required.. To believe that the sun will NOT rise tomorrow takes a ton of faith, not that it will do as it has for several billion years now.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • HIPPockrassee

      The debate is over. Momoya's reality is truth. Everything must be viewed and evaluated based on her beliefs. I'm right, you're wrong. Sheesh....and the religious are intolerant!!!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • Bet

      @ HIPPockrassee

      Most of this discussion is from christians who want to impose their beliefs on everyone.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.