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My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The author backs same-sex marriage because of his faith, not in spite of it.
May 19th, 2012
02:00 AM ET

My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage

Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

By Mark Osler, Special to CNN

I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.

What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.

A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.

During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.

After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.

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Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).

His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”

None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.

My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality

It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.

Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.

The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.

Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!

I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.

The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.

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At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.

I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.

It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.

The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Episcopal • Gay marriage • Opinion

soundoff (15,115 Responses)
  1. Rev

    The problem with Mr. Osler's article and his opinion is that marriage is not a sacrament ordained by Christ. Christ ordained two sacraments, baptism and communion. These two Christ said we must do. Believers must be baptized and in remembrance of Him, we must commune and fellowship with one another. No one is denying gay people the right to be baptized or to receive communion. Marriage is a ritual and marriage in the church, by clergy, indicates that the two people are making a covenant with God. God never said a covenant would be created between two people of the same gender, but between a man and a woman. Nothing changes that. Worldly opinions do not change that. However, marriage is also a contract which makes civil unions a right for everyone. If you want to live in the world and not according to God's Word, then live by the rules of the world and stop trying to make everyone accept your worldly choices. Understand Ephesians 5:3-7, especially verse 7, which warns "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them." Individuals have to have individual relationships with God. Make sure you know God and God's Word for yourself and do not let others deceive you with their thoughts, opinions and lack of knowledge.

    May 21, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • J.W

      Actually there was an article not too long ago in which a priest refused to give a lesbian communion at her mother's funeral.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • Double R

      @J.W.

      Are you sure that was because she was lesbian? I thought that was because she was divorced. I may be wrong though and confusing articles.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Marriage is, first and foremost, a civil contract. As such it has nothing to do with religion, and any two people should be free to enter such civil contract without restrictions.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic church. Why do we say, what God has joined together let no man separate? It is not only a ceremony, the faith points to Gods involvement in the act. This is why Catholics can not repeat the sacrament of marriage unless they obtain an annulment for a previous marriage in the Catholic church.

      A priest will deny communion on rare occasions, because Christ's body is held in reverence and no one is to partake of it if they are in a state of mortal sin. I've know of priests who deny communion to hetero couples because he knows that they are living in sin.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • J.W

      It was definitely bacause she was a lesbian

      May 21, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
  2. dajmipiwo

    The bible said slavery was permissible, too. Want to bring that back because the bible says so?

    May 21, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Writings in the bible are ancient (2000+ years ago). Do you think that this was a point of contention at that time? This was a normal reality of life. Where in the bible does it say that slavery is good? Where does it say that God tells us it is better to have slaves than to not have slaves?

      May 21, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
  3. Ralph in Orange Park, FL

    Instead of trying to justify the behavior of modern people in terms of the beliefs of people who lived thousands of years ago, it would be more useful to accept that their fears and prejudices are about as relevant to the modern world as the oxcart is to air travel.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:51 am |
  4. Jesse

    It is a moral shame that these politicians as well as some church religions are giving their tacit approval to this Anti-God position. How can a politician claim that they are Christian and then at the same time approve of Gay Marriage?

    May 21, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • momoya

      To me, it looked like it was pretty easy for him.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • JWT

      the same way that millions of christians do. They look t the bible differently than you. The bible does not have just 1 valid interpretation.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • Huebert

      If anything can go against god's will or, be "anti-god" you must be following a powerless god.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • YeahRight

      "It is a moral shame that these politicians as well as some church religions are giving their tacit approval to this Anti-God position. How can a politician claim that they are Christian and then at the same time approve of Gay Marriage?"

      For the same reasons that Christians have been proven to be WRONG throughout history. Christians get morality WRONG! Christians came to this country murdered the Native American and stole their land. They kidnapped African Americans, made them slaves denying them their civil rights but they were proven it was morally wrong and African Americans got their civil rights. Then Christians tried to keep women in the home and denied them their civil rights but again Christians were proven morally WRONG and women got their civil rights. Then the Christians tried to ban biracial marriages and they were proven WRONG and marriage was declared a civil right. Now in present day the Christians are being proven morally WRONG about gays by trying to deny them their civil right to marry.

      The moral shame is people like you who deny what all the experts are now saying about gays. That everything that was written in the past about gays were done by bias and prejudice people and that includes your Bible!

      May 21, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
  5. mandarax

    Mark from Middle River, I have left replies for you on page 59.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      Yeah, was working on the replay :)

      May 21, 2012 at 12:53 pm |
  6. Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

    I like what Lewis Black had to say about it when talking about Rick Santorum years ago. It perfectly illustrates my point that there is no logical reason to think that gay marriage is going to negatively impact marriage as a whole or the American family in any way.

    "It's prejudice, and it's ignorance, on a level that is staggering at this point in time. But, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's a group of gay bandidos. They travel from village to dell. And as night falls, they travel to that cul-de-sac, where only one house stands. And in the window, you see a family, just setting down to their evening meal. And these que-ers... these que-ers... don their black hoods, and matching pumps, very tasteful. Sneak up to the house ever so slightly, open the door, and start... F@!KING EACH OTHER IN THE ASS! AND ANOTHER AMERICAN FAMILY... IS DESTROYED!"

    May 21, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I love Lewis Black. "Don't believe in evolution? Here, see this? It's a fossil. Then, if they still don't get it I THROW it at them."

      May 21, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • momoya

      Much appreciated comic relief!.

      Creationist: Cool stuff means goddidit
      Scientist: Umm.. fossils
      Creationist: Not all fossils!!
      Scientist: Umm genetics..
      Creationist: Those dark arts mean nothing to god!!
      Scientist: Ummm.. bacteria and viruses evolve as we observe them
      Creationist: Yeah, right, retard!! I'm off to get my flu shot!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Mike Blackadder

      The purpose of legal definition of marriage is to accommodate family life. If the purpose of gay marriage is in the spirit of validating family life for gays, and that includes the openness to raising children and lifelong commitment, then in my view, I don't see how this compromises the inst-itution of marriage and in fact is probably a positive thing. However, if the argument is that gays shouldn't have to live up to a hetero definition of marriage which implies marriage as a foundation for family, and that gays marriage is a redefinition of marriage to be any thing we want it to mean, then the question becomes; why does the government involve itself in the ritual of marriage? Why should a marriage between 2 people justify special treatment under the law? Marriage law becomes arbitrary, and this is destructive to the int-itution of marriage.

      May 21, 2012 at 1:02 pm |
    • Armendra

      I actually relaly like the comments! my daughters now just have reports with grades and no comments and I hate it. I don't even feel I've got anything at all from the teacher- there is no guidance, recognition for hard work or anything. I know the comments are painful to write, but they make it personal and yoy actually feel like someone knows/or is attempting to get to know your child!

      November 10, 2012 at 1:38 am |
  7. momoya

    I wonder why math and chemistry texts don't read like the bible or other holy books.. I mean, god MUST have the best method of communication, right?. Why isn't the communication of math or chemistry up to par with the bible?

    May 21, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • John

      Dear and lovely lost momoya
      Amidst all the noise....I check myself naked in the mirror and I know that thing there doesn't belong in his thing over there...just doesn't seem right....must be I'm not gay....

      I suggest we set up Greenland for all gays and let them procreate there for eternity.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      DId you imagine this deathless prose of yours was so interesting you needed to spam it, Johnny?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • John

      meantime while we war over trivia our elected officials come up with new and ingenious ways to spend us into oblivion and we are too busy watching ourselves in the mirror....

      bye bye

      May 21, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • momoya

      @John

      You're off topic..

      May 21, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Run away, little boy. Those under 18 shouldn't try to play in this venue.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      He's off. Period.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • John

      Tom...

      I bet the Piper is embarrassed as Hell with you

      May 21, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • momoya

      John must have a talking mirror.. He looked at it, and he found out what his s3xual orientation was.. I wonder if he consults the mirror to find out if he was born with a propensity for long legs or big jugs.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Didn't you say "bye-bye" you big wuss?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      John, obvious genius and mensa member, even if you were cold-blooded enough to imprison all of the gay people in one place. . .guess what. . .the rest of the str8 population would continue producing more gay babies the way they have since the beginning of our species. . .similar to thousands of other species.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • Peteyroo

      John, which part of Greenland are you moving to?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • ...just doesn't seem right..."

      Well, THERE'S an argument that just blows momoya right out of the water!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The idea of John checking himself out in the mirror to see where parts fit is too funny.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      John's obsession with gay seks "doesn't seem right" given the fact that he believes he's a str8 man. I have a feeling this poor guy will eventually either come out of the closet or try and kill himself.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • momoya

      He must have forgot about hands and mouths.. I wonder if when he has s3x he goes straight for the va jay-jay.. "NOTHING BUT VA JAY-JAY SHALL TOUCH THIS PETER!!!!!!"

      May 21, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Primewonk

      I agree momoya. And I propose that from now on, the fundiots be forced to drive and fly in machines designed with pi = 3.0. I also propose that fundiots be treated by the medicine from their bible.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Primewonk

      John wrote, " Amidst all the noise....I check myself naked in the mirror and I know that thing there doesn't belong in his thing over there...just doesn't seem right....must be I'm not gay....

      I suggest we set up Greenland for all gays and let them procreate there for eternity."

      Well there you go. You just showed that being gay is not a choice. Otherewise you could choose to get a woody thinlking about doing another man. By the way, 50% of us striaghts have anal sèx.

      You also showed your total ignorance about the science of sèxual orientation. If we send all the gayfolks to Greenland, guess what? We straights are making more of them starting this afternoon.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Bet

      "Amidst all the noise....I check myself naked in the mirror and I know that thing there doesn't belong in his thing over there...just doesn't seem right....must be I'm not gay...."

      It doesn't seem right. Boy, that's a great argument.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
  8. hingie68

    You all can say what you want and allow yourselves to be deceived. The truth still remains and always will. If you know Gods word you know that the gay lifestyle is WRONG period!!! You have been given a choice and you can either accept the truth or deny it, that is on you but God's word will remain the SAME FOREVER!

    May 21, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • momoya

      Indeed.. God's word is forever.. Everybody can go back to killing their kids when they talk back and we can all own and sell s l a ves again.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • JWT

      I accept the universal thruth that your god does not make the rules for all mankind.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      hingie, I really don't care what you think since my civil marriage has nothing to do with your book of fairy tales and if the main reason you believe gays should be discriminated against is because you read it in your book of myths, then all the more reason to grant gays their civil marriages.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • John

      Amidst all the noise....I check myself naked in the mirror and I know that thing there doesn't belong in his thing over there...just doesn't seem right....must be I'm not gay....

      I suggest we set up Greenland for all gays and let them procreate there for eternity.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I see. You're 16.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • momoya

      @John

      I would hope you knew your s3xual orientation long before a few days back looking in the mirror.. Why do you think that only some people should be able to marry whom they choose?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • YeahRight

      "The truth still remains and always will. If you know Gods word you know that the gay lifestyle is WRONG period!!! You have been given a choice and you can either accept the truth or deny it, that is on you but God's word will remain the SAME FOREVER!"

      That's why there are now thousands of gay churches, gay clergy and hundreds of pastors writing apology letters to the gay community. The experts have shown that being gay is NOT a choice, it can't be voluntarily changed and it's not a mental illness. The writers of the bible did NOT understand what we know about gays today. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      It was just on the news today that the NAACP is supporting gay marriage!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Those of us in Mensa wonder how long you've been in Densa.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      Oh so God's word doesn't change? God is unchanging? Well then I guess God still disapproves of things like shellfish and clothes woven with two different fabrics. Or did God change his mind on that?

      May 21, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
  9. Moshe

    Mark, did you ever read Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13? Sure you might say "but that was in the old testament"... Then read I Corinthians 6:9.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • momoya

      Hi Moshe,

      Are you currently serving time in prison for following god's other commandments in Leviticus?? You know, it's your duty to kill anyone who works on the sabbath and disobedient children?? Oh, and do you have a daughter I might buy from you as a sl a ve the way your god explains is proper in the OT?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Moshe, Christianity is f^%ked, they don't know which way is up or down. Followers are idiots who follow whatever their certain denomination tells them. . .and there are thousands of denominations all claiming to have the correct interpretation of the same book even though each church interprets the bible differently. They're a mess.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • momoya

      @DeeCee

      I wish that every time a christard made a stupid claim you could buzz a little of your logic in his/her ear.. Your words are "in season" (to use the bible's parlance).

      May 21, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • YeahRight

      "Then read I Corinthians 6:9."

      LMAO! Oh you mean the scripture where a prejudice scribe added the word hoimosiexual since the word hadn't existed when the bible was written. It's more about male prostitution when looking at the original Greek. It has NOTHING to do with what we now know and understand about gay people.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Thanks momoya! I like your comments too. . .especially when you make these religious fanatics look like total idiots. Funny!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:56 am |
  10. yalesouth

    the wingnuts are so ridiculous. even if we allowed religion to invade politics and how we run our government, there are so many versions and interpretations of the bible, how would we decide whose would prevail? It seems as though they have us poised to become another middle eastern country.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • Craig

      not at all!!! matter fact more peploe need to start doing this so they actually know because alot of peploe THINK they are safe when they have no clue they arent so go ahead and ask and if he has a problem then maybe he isnt the one for you ..why would you not want to know? always good to be assured

      November 8, 2012 at 9:19 am |
  11. Peteyroo

    As you grow up and leave childhood you surrender belief in unicorns, Santa Claus, leprechuans, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny. So why do you cling to the equally absurd myth of God/Jesus? To a person unburdened by religion, the belief in God/Jesus seems the same as a belief in Santa Claus. What is your opinion of a mature adult who belives in Santa Claus? I have the same opinion of a mature adult who beives in God/Jesus.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      I wish we could have a Zeus holiday. . . or Poseidon. . .everybody could go around throwing water on each other for a day.. .that would be nice during the summer.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  12. Jerald Morris

    Everybody has their own Idea about God. I got news if you reject Christ you are doomed. Don't matter how tough you are, You skip out on the free gift of salavtion and your doomed. Don't like it, neither did I until I wised up and got saved. Read Romans 10:9-10 and apply it if you got the guts.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • momoya

      Yeah, right.. We're talking about a sadistic torturer who will torture about 99.99% of the people he created.. The .01% will be able to give god blow j o b s for all eternity while you smell the smoke of the tormented through god's special ventilation system that pipes in the fumes of hell.. All because he sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself because a rib-woman got talked into doing wrong by a snake before she even knew what "wrong" was and so then an invisible disease (sin) got carried down into the invisible "soul organ" of each person on the earth.. What a disgusting, terroristic tyrant!! And stupid, too, considering he won't clear up all the confusion about his will and nature like he was able to do with math and chemistry that everyone must use the same because they don't work otherwise..

      Can anyone come up with a more stupid and disgusting being than god?? I think not.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • yalesouth

      another dimwit from the middle ages. the church has been manipulating people for hundreds of years with the same line, and now i guess we are supposed to fall in lin eagain?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Jerald, go back to school and finish the Third Grade. If I understand your ranting correctly, you accepted God/Jesus because you are afraid of what will happen to you if you don't. You got scared and ran to religion.

      Momoya, love your comment!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • Loki

      Kneel before me, you mewling quim!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      Oooooo, your god is so scary ! ! ! I'm so scared now!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • momoya

      Anybody who tortures people because they don't give him "worship" deserves to be mocked until he gives up such a fvcking stupid, azzhole idea.. Please.. The average toddler has better morals and more sense than bible god.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • Peteyroo

      I reject Christ and I pass on salvation. I look forward to taking my place in the fires of hell. I plan to bring marshmallows and hot dogs to make the best of the situation. The best thing about hell (aside from the fact that it doesn't exist) is that I'll be there with all the best people. Fools like you will be in heaven where you can't bother me.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • AverageJoe76

      Problem here, Jerald is this; there are passionate people in each religion who believe they have the 'one' truth. When the the entire room honestly believes they have the truth, best thing to do is step outside the room to gain perspective. Getting caught in the fog of thought with believers suits some, but not me. I am curious by design. I cannot help but to ask questions. With faith, questioning hits a brick wall that asks you "to believe in your heart". And that's fine, but I can't stop at the wall anymore. I have to see what's on the other side.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  13. vtguy

    You are possessed.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Repossessed. This is his second time.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:34 am |
  14. FF

    Hey : Mark Osler. For people like you the hottest place in HELL is reserved. You should be ashamed of yourself in perverting God's Holy Word. Tell me, was your diploma written on toilet paper? Do yourself a favor repent from your evil works, turn to your first love Jesus Christ, and go find yourself a real job. You are doing a great dis-service to the Body of Jesus Christ

    May 21, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • momoya

      Wow, you believe eternal torture is a good thing.. congrats..

      May 21, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • yalesouth

      You sound like a real nitwit. Why don't you move beyond the middle ages.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Kevin

      Now I'm confused, I thought people like you first believed that the hottest place in HELL is reserved for blacks ... but now that isn't acceptable, so it's reserved for gays ... but now you're saying someone with different interpretations of Christianity gets to go there? I really wish people like you would make up your minds!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • momoya

      As if "one day you'll hurt very badly" has anything at all to do with logic or argument.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • GraceandLove

      I feel for you FF. For you must obviuosly not know the heart of God. Not once did you quote the bible in your rant against a man who was close to The Word. I'm sorry that you have to live your life condeming honest men. I'd offer help, but you'd reject it. Since if you had used that help, which is readily available in the bible, you wouldn't be posting these things in the first place.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • Huebert

      I'll never understand someone who enjoys imagining the suffering of strangers.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • sam

      Haha, you actually think you know better than anyone what Jesus intended? Ugh. Troll harder.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • JustaNormalPerson

      How can you pretend to speak for God when you completely ignore the teachings of Christ?

      How can you pretend to speak for God when you completely lack the empathy of Christ?

      You are a pretend Christian, not a true Christian and you have no real understanding of God. You have more to fear from God than the people you judge.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:48 am |
  15. John

    I find it amazing that so many brain dead idiots who claim there is no God....or that he's ok with all facets of the human condition...come to an article "The Christian Case for Gay Marriage"...

    What did you expect to find here?

    May 21, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • Peteyroo

      How about the brain-dead folks who believe in God?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What did YOU expect to find? More discussion of all that icky stuff involving men's asses? Isn't that why you're here? You surely do seem to dwell on that issue.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

      I, for one, come to these articles and comment in an attempt to inject reason to the unreasonable and defend my (and my children's) future from religion.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • momoya

      Yeah, right.. We're talking about a sadistic torturer who will torture about 99.99% of the people he created.. The .01% will be able to give god blow j o b s for all eternity while you smell the smoke of the tormented through god's special ventilation system that pipes in the fumes of hell.. All because he sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself because a rib-woman got talked into doing wrong by a snake before she even knew what "wrong" was and so then an invisible disease (sin) got carried down into the invisible "soul organ" of each person on the earth.. What a disgusting, terroristic tyrant!! And stupid, too, considering he won't clear up all the confusion about his will and nature like he was able to do with math and chemistry that everyone must use the same because they don't work otherwise..

      Can anyone come up with a more stupid and disgusting being than god?? I think not.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • DeeCee1000

      John, your are living proof that "God" does not exist. Thank you for proving yourself wrong btw.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • sam

      Jerks like you to make fun of...

      May 21, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      Hi John. I guess someone should have welcomed you to the Belief Blog. We have a new members care package for those who come in. The fact is that it does not matter the article here on the Belief Blog, the debates between some of the Faithful and some of the Atheist are and will be the same article after article. For folks like "If Horses" he or she believes that they can change folks here they soon find that it is pointless. Same as the Faithful that come in and say to the Atheist cast to repent.

      This is the Belief Blog. There are no real undecided here. There are are ones on both sides that foolishly believe the other side has no foundation and will cave, if you just confront them. Naturally, I do not think that we have a Faithful or a Atheist who has not heard every argument against their view or belief and does not have a counter argument.

      John, most just pack up and move on. The same arguments that you will read in this thread, you will see again in another. The articles do not really matter most of the time. CNN just wants us to fight, and fight we will. I notice that the ads today are for Porsche. Another article with only 279 post has a ad for Pierce Morgan and another for the return of Dallas.

      J

      May 21, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • BigAl

      Apparently, there is a lot of work to be done and God's powers are very limited. So, he needs humans (or the ones who self identify as the one's he's chosen) to do "God's work" for him. They know EXACTLY what he intended (even if they disagree among themselves). God relies heavily on these folks and their anxiety about the rest of us making the wrong decisions is well justified considering that, if they can't get God's work done, who will ???

      May 21, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • BigAl

      [Mark From Middle River] .. OK, you make a good point.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:39 am |
    • If horses had Gods ... their Gods would be horses

      Hi Mark from Middle River ... thank you for your post, I agree with it's sentiment and the truth of it. I just want to clarify one thing, I do not think I can "change" anyone, I just attempt to tweak someone's reasoning in the hopes that they will eventually come to a conclusion in a more reasonable manner. I believe in the butterfly effect for cases of long standing debates like this one.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      Mark, I for one am glad that it is debated and that reasonable people use logic on here to prove points. I used to be a hard-core Christian. I used to evangelize too. Then I started actually reading the Bible and using a critical eye that was clear from my opinions that were held through rose-colored glasses. You might not think that logic used in a debate like this makes a difference, but it does. People change their opinions over time. Sure, they might not change immediately but you start planting seeds and they build and grow. This was true in my case. When I really decided to get down to the nitty gritty and examine my beliefs, stuff that atheists had said on boards like this finally got through and I began to see the logic and understanding behind their points. I can see from both sides of the aisle. I have been on both sides. Trust me, in most cases the debate won't change any minds but there are a few instances where debates like this do eventually lead to a change of heart/mind/opinion.

      May 21, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
  16. tony

    I was reading that some recent research on "super-super novae" is that that the very largest stars collapse, the mechanism differs and huge amounts of matter/anti-matter pairs are formed internally, which can cause the entire star explosion to occur in something like an incredible 12 minutes. And results in some of the brightest events seen in the universe.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • John

      Thank you for sharing with the class Tony

      May 21, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Mike Blackadder

      Well at least we know some people are using their brain this morning. Good stuff Tony.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's nice tony has a pal. Too bad you can't figure out the subject of the article.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  17. John

    Dear DEE CEE 1000
    So....
    Once again...maybe you could explain what it was about the article that intrigued you?
    Maybe you were hoping that once and for all someone had figured out a winning argument...wrong
    Maybe you were hoping that you could finally rest with your condition...wrong

    You don't have to change or live differently...you only need to look to God for acceptance but that won't happen as long as you think the answer lives with you...it doesn't.
    I hope you find peace but I can promise you it will only come when you accept ALL of your brokenness and realize that your transcended perfection is as easy as asking for a new spirit...
    Not this one in you now that keeps telling people to do nasty things

    May 21, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Jesus is in the backyard playing with the unicorns.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • richunix

      John
      Only if you would take the GOD's and unicorns reference from your statement, it might be even better. In fact you would be better served, if your added the Greek / Roman mythos from which Christianity came from.

      Stephen F Roberts: “I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”

      May 21, 2012 at 11:18 am |
  18. TiredODaCrap

    Cute thoughts. However, not one that the pro gay marriage folks can use. You can't argue that religion needs to stay out of marriage and these unions, but then claim that one of Jesus' disciplines would have agreed with allowing it – which obviously this guy can't say with any certainty.
    Like it or not, it's coming. And behind it, even more is coming that those who will be given the right will oppose (which will be just as funny, as they argue 'why not me", but then will scream "no not them" in the end!).

    May 21, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Such as what?

      May 21, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      What is coming? I agree, like it or not gay marriage will eventually be allowed nationwide. Maybe not in this decade, but one day...

      May 21, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Mark From Middle River

      I do not know if it is as eventual as some would hope. We have states passing laws that ban Gay marriage seems like each year. California, which is left leaning still had to over ride the voters wishes to get Gay Marriage. It's going to have to come down to a Federal fight and who knows. That Russian Guy who predicted that the United States was going to soon break up, might have been right.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:40 am |
  19. bluewaterbk

    1 Corinthians 1:21 – "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
    I say that ho mo se xuality is a sin, because God says it is a sin. I say that I do not judge those who practice it, but I then assure you that God will. And you look to God and point at me and call me, among other colorful adjectives, "foolish".
    Kinda blows your mind to think that God looks at you, smiles, and says "yeah, sounds crazy, doesn't it? That's one of mine you're pointing at! And it pleases me that he believes in something that sounds so foolish to you."

    The Bible says that entering into an acitiviy which results in a man-man or woman-woman relationship is wrong. Period.
    The Bible says entering into an activity which results in taking another person's life is wrong. Period.
    How stupid would it seem to you, who want to say that being gay is "not by choice", to hear me say that I wish to continue in a lifestyle of entering into activities which result in taking other people's lives because "God did this to me" or "I was born this way". That would sound foolish, would it not?
    That's the point. Sin is sin because of how God defines it, not because of how man fashions and re-interprets it to suit his ala carte desires.........Period.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Leprechuans, unicorns, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, God & Jesus–all myths.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • YeahRight

      "The Bible says that entering into an acitiviy which results in a man-man or woman-woman relationship is wrong. Period."

      No it doesn't what your bible condemns is male prostitution, idolatry and worshiping a pagan god using sex. Nowhere in your bible does your god condemn the saved loving respectful relationship of a gay couple as we know and understand it today. Part of reading comprehension 101 is putting the scriptures into historical context. So are you also going to agree with Paul's other prejudices that he expresses? LOL!

      May 21, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • richunix

      what is your GOD's name? Te word god is 6th centry Germanic.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • bluewaterbk

      Peteyroo – sure pray that you don't "myth" the boat on the last two you listed when your time here ends.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • Craig

      Wow, comparing ho mo se xuality to murder? Really? You really think those two are in the same category? I feel sorry for you that you need to go to such lengths to spread your hate. God would be proud...

      May 21, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Kevin

      Bottom line, being gay ISN'T a choice, no more than you can choose to be straight, choose your skin color, choose your gender, choose who you are deep inside your core. No matter how many times misguided people like you claim that gay people choose to be the way they are, that doesn't change the fact that we are all created in God's image and right now He is laughing at how simple-minded your views are and how He really wishes you would love and respect all of His creations and accept them EXACTLY how He made them.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • momoya

      @Kevin

      It svcks trying to convince religious morons of simple facts, doesn't it?. Keep up the great work.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • bluewaterbk

      YeahRight – there you go again, confusing comprehension and wisdom.
      You have the former, and it is the very thing that keeps you from possessing the latter.
      God gives the latter, and will bring to nothing the former.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • momoya

      I use formerlatter batter on my fish and chips.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • GPC

      Peteyroo

      "Leprechuans, unicorns, the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, God & Jesus–all myths."

      This isn't a very good argument. It makes more sense to point out that people have and continue to believe in thousands of gods. A believer then is left with the problem of trying to claim that all other gods are myths, except the one they were indoctrinated into believing in from early childhood. They are atheists when it comes to every other god, except their own. So how about Zeus, Ra, Osiris, Ahura Mazda, Aengus, Aphrodite, Vishnu, God & Jesus–all myths.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • bluewaterbk

      @momoya
      Romans 5:6 – "For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly".
      Having read through the tone of several of your comments on this thread, I pray that the above verse encourages you that you are personally referenced in the Bible. And just so that you don't think I'm judging you, I will say – so am I, in the same verse.
      The difference? I don't mock Him. I love Him because He first loved me, and died for me. And you.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • Peteyroo

      Good point, GPC. You are absolutely correct. I was afraid the good Christians involved here would never have heard of them.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • JWT

      yet god only defines sin for those who follow a particular version of god. He difines nothing for everyone else.

      May 21, 2012 at 11:52 am |
  20. tony

    Which religious person are you referring to in this case? I thought we were all on the same page. Just an omission on the multiple meanings of the word faith.

    May 21, 2012 at 11:00 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.