Editor's Note: Mark Osler is a Professor of Law at the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
By Mark Osler, Special to CNN
I am a Christian, and I am in favor of gay marriage. The reason I am for gay marriage is because of my faith.
What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is an insistence that we don’t have the moral authority to deny others the blessing of holy institutions like baptism, communion, and marriage. God, through the Holy Spirit, infuses those moments with life, and it is not ours to either give or deny to others.
A clear instruction on this comes from Simon Peter, the “rock” on whom the church is built. Peter is a captivating figure in the Christian story. Jesus plucks him out of a fishing boat to become a disciple, and time and again he represents us all in learning at the feet of Christ.
During their time together, Peter is often naïve and clueless – he is a follower, constantly learning.
After Jesus is crucified, though, a different Peter emerges, one who is forceful and bold. This is the Peter we see in the Acts of the Apostles, during a fevered debate over whether or not Gentiles should be baptized. Peter was harshly criticized for even eating a meal with those who were uncircumcised; that is, those who did not follow the commands of the Old Testament.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Peter, though, is strong in confronting those who would deny the sacrament of baptism to the Gentiles, and argues for an acceptance of believers who do not follow the circumcision rules of Leviticus (which is also where we find a condemnation of homosexuality).
His challenge is stark and stunning: Before ordering that the Gentiles be baptized Peter asks “Can anyone withhold the water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
None of us, Peter says, has the moral authority to deny baptism to those who seek it, even if they do not follow the ancient laws. It is the flooding love of the Holy Spirit, which fell over that entire crowd, sinners and saints alike, that directs otherwise.
My Take: Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality
It is not our place, it seems, to sort out who should be denied a bond with God and the Holy Spirit of the kind that we find through baptism, communion, and marriage. The water will flow where it will.
Intriguingly, this rule will apply whether we see homosexuality as a sin or not. The water is for all of us. We see the same thing at the Last Supper, as Jesus gives the bread and wine to all who are there—even to Peter, who Jesus said would deny him, and to Judas, who would betray him.
The question before us now is not whether homosexuality is a sin, but whether being gay should be a bar to baptism or communion or marriage.
Your Take: Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality
The answer is in the Bible. Peter and Jesus offer a strikingly inclusive form of love and engagement. They hold out the symbols of Gods’ love to all. How arrogant that we think it is ours to parse out stingily!
I worship at St. Stephens, an Episcopal church in Edina, Minnesota. There is a river that flows around the back and side of that church with a delightful name: Minnehaha Creek. That is where we do baptisms.
The Rector stands in the creek in his robes, the cool water coursing by his feet, and takes an infant into his arms and baptizes her with that same cool water. The congregation sits on the grassy bank and watches, a gentle army.
Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter
At the bottom of the creek, in exactly that spot, is a floor of smooth pebbles. The water rushing by has rubbed off the rough edges, bit by bit, day by day. The pebbles have been transformed by that water into something new.
I suppose that, as Peter put it, someone could try to withhold the waters of baptism there. They could try to stop the river, to keep the water from some of the stones, like a child in the gutter building a barrier against the stream.
It won’t last, though. I would say this to those who would withhold the water of baptism, the joy of worship, or the bonds of marriage: You are less strong than the water, which will flow around you, find its path, and gently erode each wall you try to erect.
The redeeming power of that creek, and of the Holy Spirit, is relentless, making us all into something better and new.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Mark Osler.
DEUTERONOMY 3:6 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites destroyed the men, women and children of Og. They plundered the livestock and possessions
DEUTERONOMY 2:33-34 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites utterly destroyed the men, women and children of Sihon. "…we left no survivors."
my opinion I have no right to judge gays however, humans are disgusting. as a person i have been given a brain to use it in such unique ways furthermore, I know how to separate right from wrong and good from bad. if you don't know how to do this then its clear that apart of your brain is not functioning properly. I won't judge gays but at the end of the day GOD watches us all he is the judge of all.
Just another wolf in sheeps clothing, preaching a gospel devoid of repentence, which neither Jesus, Peter, nor Paul preached.
Leave it to lawyers to entangle, manipulate and twist the language in such a way, as to make it appear that Marriage is even a Fundamental right or a "christian" case. When there is none at all.
Marriage is not even a Fundamental right. All the H o mo s e x ual groups have is a few courts decisions, by a few politically motivated judges. That only changes policies and interpretations of the laws, it does NOT ammends the C O N S T I T U T I O N. Marriage is a Priviledge, an Honor and in some cases a Duty or an Obligation. It is a Social Contract between a Man and a Woman. Anything else is an aberration a CONTRA NATURA.
Marriage became a civil right when the government adn others attached benefits, rights and responsibilities to it. The issue has nothing to do with religion at all. A religion can marry whonsoever they want to. Christian churches marry gay couples all the time.
A few "churches" that I will not call christian. Are/have performed "weddings" for same s-e-x couples. That does NOT change the Facts, does NOT even change the nature of things as they were Created. What you have with a few of the 50 States, is an aberration a perversion, that will lead to worst things for the next generation. Things don't get better with the passing of time, as the POTUS et al have lead many to believe. In matters of Moral, behaviour, conduct more often thant not, things do go from bad to worst.
The Text of the C O N S T I T U T I O N does NOT mention marriage. The decisions of a few courts and a few Politically motivated judges, have NOT change the C O N S T I T U T I O N. Though they have set Precedents and Interpretations. Still these decisions are based on very particular interpretations, by very particular judges. Simply because the moral fabric and standards of these judges and of the Populace, like I said are getting from bad to worst.
Equal protection under the law is a fundamental right, Salero. So, shove your bigotry far up whichever cavity you can find
Some thoughts to consider without a typical ego response
Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
The world denounces truth....
Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.
Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.
The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.
Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.
We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .
Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
See the truth...
do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..
Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .
Trancsend the temporal world.
Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .
Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing
Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.
Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....
Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.
You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.
Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.
I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .
Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?
Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.
once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it
You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
Gay marriage should Not be discriminated... And tell me this, if God, or any higher being, believes that it IS wrong, then why does it exist. Does that make sense??
As far as our secular government and society, I would agree with you. Gays should not be denied benefits provided to others. I prefer "civil union" to "marriage" as a term, but that's just semantics.
As far as things being "wrong", the Bible is chock full of instruction about things that we do naturally that we are supposed to refrain from. It is most certainly not limited to gay issues. Christianity is not about living your life the way you always have, and shoehorning God in where He fits. It is about conforming your life to God's standards. I don't claim to know his mind, so I don't know "why."
Why dose murder or lying exist, It's called "free will", GOD dose not
want mindless followers, He give you the choice to do good or evil.
Ethier satisfy you own desires OR deniy your self and follow GOD.
"GOD dose not want mindless followers"
Could have fooled me...
What unfortunate planning by god. By dictating what people should and should not do, then saying if they don't do it there will be condemn to an eternity of torture and torment, you are bound to attract the dredges of society. Only intellectual slaves would accept such a choice.
In movies we always cheer the champion who stands up to his slave masters and faces certain death all for the sake of freedom. It's a shame that these same people accept the bonds of religion.
"What I see in the Bible’s accounts of Jesus and his followers is..." Well, therein lies your problem, Mark Osler, you need to rely on your Higher Authority to know what is right, wrong, moral, immoral and pleasing to or punishable by our Creator. You've taken far too much authority upon yourself. Become humble and meek and seek, the door will be opened.
This is a theologically unsophisticated argument and it's riddled with logical fallacies. You're interpreting the words of the "Higher Authority" just as much as he is.
Well, Charlie, the argument doesn't have to be very sophisticated. The Bible is quite clear that homôsëxuality is a perversion, and a lifestyle which is decidedly un-Christian. You will not find a reference to it anywhere in the Bible where this is not the case.
I take it by your comments that you are non-Christian. You are free to do as you choose. In my opinion, those who are trying to legislate Christian beliefs are in error. Our country was intended to be religously neutral, and that is a good thing.
But in regards to this article, Mr. Osler is misguided if he believes he is Christian – because based on a Christian foundation, he has no case.
" those who are trying to legislate Christian beliefs are in error."
Not sure that anyone is doing this.
"Our country was intended to be religously neutral, and that is a good thing."
Agreed. Well said!
The only thing that makes you "gay" is what YOU do in your bedroom-so why are you wanting special rules for that? I keep my bedroom business in my bedroom . Not on main street. But some. Feel they need to let the world know about in great detail what they do news flash we do not want to know
Really? The only thing that makes someone gay is what they do in the bedroom? Really? It's not who they love, or what they're attracted to... it just comes down to s.ex for you huh?
Really? So the only thing that makes you straight is the fact that you have penetrative intercourse with a man? That's it?
Lisa, if I may...do you have a husband or boyfriend?
Do you hold hands in public? Do you kiss each other where others can see you? Do you say "I love you" within earshot of others?
If any of these answers are yes, then you do not, in fact, keep your s.ex life private. You advertise to everyone around you that you are with that man in a very intimate way.
Why do hetero couples get special rules? They have these special rules that allow them to get what they like to call "married." With that comes a lot of crazy rules about taxes, hospital visitation, etc.
lisa: it is an orientation, not a behavior
Christians should care what the Bible says regarding hоmosеxuality about as much as they care about what it says regarding eating pork or stoning disobedient children to death.
Sad to say, but we'd probably be better off if the xtians that believe that nonsense also believed the part about stoning their children to death. I've been straining my brain for years trying to think about how to weed these people out of the gene pool, when it was staring me right in the face. They need to obey every word of the bible.
Well, of course, Jesus is the fulfillment of Old Testament law and doctrine, and his coming represented a "new and everlasting covenant" with God. So his coming was sort of a contract renegotiation, and the old rules of Leviticus no longer apply except in the few areas where it seems to support a minority of the people's sick, reactionary social conservatism and out-group hatreds. Then it's still in force. But the stuff that would make US uncomfortable, instead of making people whose behavior we disapprove of uncomfortable, all THAT stuff is dead and gone.
Yeah, doesn't make sense to me either, but I'm a happy heathen.
Inasmuch as homôsëxuality was identified as a perversion well before the Mosaic covenant (Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc), you can't exactly lump it in with stuff like unclean foods and stoning children...
"Inasmuch as homôsëxuality was identified as a perversion well before the Mosaic covenant..."
What do you mean by this?
Book of Jude (NT):
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sëxual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. – Jude 1:7
Interesting. So, you saying that the "law" that was fulfilled by Christ's sacrifice was only the Mosaic law, correct? What are the laws that transcend, I guess, the Mosaic laws and are still in effect? I'm assuming the Two Great Commandments, but what else?
I'm not a theologian, so I couldn't tell you exhaustively. My only take is what we are told in the NT about sin and un-Christian practices. As this is mentioned by a NT writer, it's pretty hard to argue against as a Christian.
Probably the best list is what the Apostles wrote to the gentiles:
i>The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sëxual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell. – Acts 15:23-29
"food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sëxual immorality"
hmmm... I thought much of the Levitical/Mosaic code was about just these things, blood and proper slaughtering techniques.
Also, couldn't "sëxual immorality" simply be adultery, pre-marital se.x, bestiality, etc?
Well, thanks for the response anyway, good info.
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sëxually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sëx with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. – 1 Cor 6:9-11
Sorry guys, but this is just one more thing your bible gets completely wrong. Being born gay is no more wrong or immoral than being born left-handed or black.
Oh...Wait....It wasn't all that long ago that fundiots claimed being left-handed was a sign of the devil, and that being black was the mark of Cain.
These were nomadic bronze-age shepherds who made up stories to explain things they couldn't possiibly understand. They were incredibly scientifically illiterate superstîtious tribesmen a couple generations removed from human sacrifice.
Do think these folks had a clue about gene expression? Protein folding? Hormonal baths in utero? Hell, they thought women were "unclean" twice as long after birthing a female than a male. And you expect them, or the stone age god they cobbled together from other minor deities, to understand the subtleties of neuronal plasticity? Hell, they treated epilepsy by driving demons from the body into herds of wild pigs and then killed the pigs. The trerated leprosy by ussing a live bird to sprinkle the blood of a dead bird around the house of a leper. And you think they got the part on being gay right?
Although I would pretty much agree with @Primewonk, in that, the Bible, and moreso its adherents, is not the best depiction of morality. But having said that, how do you determine which version is accurate?
1 Corinthians 6:9
NIV "...nor adulterers nor male prost.itutes nor hom.os.exual offenders"
KJV "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"
ASV "...nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,"
D-R "... Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,"
Wey "... nor adulterers, nor any who are guilty of unnatural crime,"
YLT "... nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites,"
Doesn't seem to be strict agreement on "men who have se.x with men" like you quoted. Sodomites cover more than gay men and exclude lesbians. Not sure what "abusers of themselves with men" are. Nor why the "effeminate" are wrong-doers. Of course the Douay-Rheims Bible steers clear of the whole subject.
No wonder Christians are confused on this.
Prime – being a Christian is an optional thing. No one is forcing you to become one.
If you aren't one, you are free to live your life as you see fit. But if you or anyone claims to be Christian, it isn't your perogative to disregard rather clear dotrine.
As for biology, if God is the creator of all (as Christianity contends), I believe He would understand the human body somewhat better than you or I. Based on the technology of the time, imparting knowledge about DNA, genetics, etc. would be pointless, no?
As for what people "believed", what does that have to do with what God instructed?
You are comparing translations of the Greek word, a r s e n o k o i t a. According to what I have read, this is the earliest reference to this word in Greek literature. From a site I found:
it has plausibly suggested that Paul created this new word by combining the two terms found in the Greek version of Lev 18:23 and 20:13: a r s e n = “male,” and k o i t e = “bed,” which translate the Hebrew for “lyïng with a male”
" it has plausibly suggested that Paul created this new word by combining the two terms found in the Greek version of Lev 18:23 and 20:13: a r s e n = “male,” and k o i t e = “bed,” which translate the Hebrew for “lyïng with a male”. "
So you admit that you fundiots think gay folks are immoral sinners based on a word possibly made up by a hômophobic bigot 2000 years ago.
KCArrowhead wrote, " Prime – being a Christian is an optional thing. No one is forcing you to become one.
If you aren't one, you are free to live your life as you see fit. But if you or anyone claims to be Christian, it isn't your perogative to disregard rather clear dotrine."
But wait! It's the fundiots who keep enacting laws like Amendment 1. So obviously you are lying.
As for your god and biology – you'd have thought an omnipotent omniscient deity who created rabbits would know if they chew their cud or not. You'd think the supreme ruler and creator of the universe would be able to count how many legs are on a grasshopper.
Hell, your god messed up the whole order of creation! He got the very first verse wrong! The earth was in no way created first. In fact the universe was 9,000,000,000 years old before the earth formed.
Or, again, it could be because the ignorant tribesmen who put your god together didn't have a freaking clue.
Seriously, how hard would it have been for an omnipotent omniscient deity to chisel in mile high letters on the surface of the moon, THE WEAK NUCLEAR FORCE DOES NOT CHANCE OVER TIME"?
What is this with the rabbits and grasshoppers? If you want to get technical about the difference between refecttion and rumination, and how that could possibly be translated into English from the ancient Hebrew – well then you are just splitting hares.
As for the cosmology lesson, you are preaching to the choir. I am quite comfortable with reconciling a Creator, and the obvious evidence for the age of the universe. Obviously there is also much evidence to support the evolutionary process which need not conflict with a Christian belief. Unfortunately, there are all too many Christians who treat the Bible as a catchall science textbook. It is not. Unfortunately there are also all too many atheists (probably in reaction to the "fundiots", as you call them) who blur science with philosophy in order to disprove any sort of Creator. I'm not going to spend hours and hours debating this with you.
As for Ammendment 1, you should be glad it is there. It prevents all of us, the varying religions and the atheistic, from forcing our beliefs upon each other.
I think @Primewonk meant the NC Amendment 1 the gay marriage ban, not US First Amendment. I was thinking the same thing at first.
As for the translation, I can't claim any knowledge of Koine Greek, but that does seem like a fairly loose definition on which to base the condemnation of an entire group of people. For all we know he was condemning the Chippendale dancers, (male, bed, furniture, Chippendale.... sorry, that was bad) and rightfully so, they are evil.
NC Ammendment does make more sense.
One can get into trouble by taking one passage and building an entire case out of it, either for or against. But if you look at a prevailing theme (especially in Paul's writings) concerning sëxual sin, it is much clearer. Some say that Paul was just a homôphobe – but it really had to do with the pervasive loose sëxual mores that the gentiles (to whom he was sent) grew up with.
Also, given the complete difference in sëxual practices between the Jews and the Greek and Roman cultures, you would think there would be some obvious clarifications being made. Something like "monogamous homôsëxual relationships are acceptible in God's sight." But you don't find that. People quibble over the translation of this word or that, claim we are not to judge others – all in an effort to justify a behavior.
Unfortunately, it really makes things difficult when you have "Christians" full of hâte and venom. People who cannot take a principled stand without being worse than that which they are protesting about.
"No wonder Christians are confused on this"
No,no,no.... Christ-ians are NOT confused on this.... not the true Christians!
There are those who claim the Name of Jesus Christ, but reject the Holy Spirit who testifies of Him, which is the Spirit of Truth.
They do not know real Christ, but have made up for themselves one according to their own imagination. To them He will say, depart from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you.
We are living in times of great falling away, spoken in the Scriptures of 2Thessalonians 2:3 and of 1&2 Timothy.
And the Scriptures are very specific what is very soon to follow.
Nothing is really surprising to those of us who know and understand what the Word of God says.
All what you people, are doing is proving even more that the Word of God is just what it is: infallible Word of God!
"not the true Christians!"
This is a no true Scotsman fallacy. There are many Christian denominations that don't have a problem with gays or gay marriage. Now, you may think they're wrong, but that's your opinion.
Maybe he should just stick with his day job and stop spinning and twisting
the Truth. Does he use scripture to make his case.....answer no.
Maybe he should "rest" his case with no proof. Sick.
Bedware of those who capitalize "truth"
bedware = beware
Kind of amusing you use "scripture" and "truth" in the same sentence.
it's entirely fitting that some of your (christian) spokespersons would embrace gay marriage after years of (whatever you thought you were doing) to the glbt community. you're losing voters at an exponential rate and this is clearly recognized as a "last gasp". i suspect christian support for gay marriage will predictably be considered too little too late.
a tough question that will persevere is "will the forced ignorance of youth be maintained?" i'll consider that a dying wish...good luck with it though!
I suppose the Episcopalians and whomever else can do as they please. From your POV outside of Christianity this may seem right and good. However, Christianity is not a democracy. Those celebrating homôsëxuality within the church are in direct contradiction to Biblical teaching.
sham, full of sham and non-sense
Actually. Matthew chapter 24 vs 24
Matthew chapter 24. Read it and weep Mr. Osler.
I'm quote confused, B. Russell – I've read Mathew 24 three times tonight. What in the heck are you talking about?
Idiot. Marriage and Baptisim are not the same... to think so is a mockery. In fact baptisim in itself shows that we are to walk in a newness of life.. which means dying to ones flesh.. Marriage, as displayed in Genisis, is man and woman, working together in fellowship with God, for His Glory. This article is another attempt to twist the bible, and Jesus's teaching into something for ones personal belief.. The TRUTH is in the word.
Why does your "omnipotent" sky fairy creature require ongoing "glory" from us? He must be a vain, needy, and weak jerk, not the benevolent creature you want to believe he is.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
i agree Tim, from the beginning god created them man and woman, not only to procreate, but also to represent the everlasting bond betweem God and His people, and Christ and His bride.
A M E N!
Exactly correct Sir! I salute you for your right thinking and your courage to speak out against this attempt to twist the meaning of the Scriptures.
Many christian churches do support gat marriage. And besides nothing written in the bible applies to non-christians unless they want it to. People can pick and choose what they want to belive any time they want.
Tim: God needs man working for his glory? Pretty impotent little god you got there
No way I'm gonna think of my hindquarters as a penetration point for someone elses thingy. Just not natural...
By their actions, a lot of priests seem to disagree with you.
It might not be natural to you, but what about everyone else??
Two men cannot make a baby, cannot be natural parents, it's a perversion and a mental disease broughtt on by severe trauma. No Christian should support gay marriage.
you're an idiot.
may God forgive you.
Amen. God help you. Read CHRIST'S words. IF you're a Christian. I promise, if you follow his exact example, then this issue is moot. Let everyone be – love one another – and don't judge.
a) I am bi-s-exual. I have had no serious s.exual trauma in my life. I have never been molested or r.aped. I simply find that both men and women are attractive.
b) As has been pointed out before, procreation is NOT a requisite for marriage, or for that matter, of any coupling. If it were then those couples with no intention of child bearing, those who can not have children for medical reasons, and any couple past the age of bearing children would be barred from marriage.
c) There have always been gays and lesbians, as far back as there have been people. It is a normal, natural variant on the spectrum of human s.exuality.If it were not normal and natural, then there would not be a fairly consisted percentage of them in every society.
I don't doubt that being gây (or bï) is natural to some. I speak this from not only a scientific perspective, but also a Christian one. The book of Jude (which I have been recently reading) states:
But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scôffers who will follow their own ungodly desïres.” These are the people who divïde you, who follow mere natural instïncts and do not have the Spirit. – Jude 1:17-19
As a Christian, we are not to merely follow our instïncts and do what seems natural to us. The Bible is very clear on this. We are to "put off the old man":
Having lost all sensïtivity, they have given themselves over to sensüality so as to indülge in every kind of impürity, and they are full of greëd. That, however, is not the way of life you learned when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrüpted by its deceïtful desïres; to be made new in the attïtude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. – Eph 4:20-24
If you are not Christian, I am not one to jüdge. As long as you can live peacably with me, I can do the same. In the secülar world I will not discrïminate against you, or try to take away your rights as a fellow citizen. The US is not a theocracy, and thankfully so. But within the boünds of Christianity, which you are free to accept or deny, it is quite clear that homôsëxuality must not be practiced.
FYI – it seems like CNN has a problem with the word "attïtude." I can't count the number of times I altered my post before I found that one. Sure would be nice if they would just publish the words they have a problem with...
KC, Yes, the taboo word fragment list should be in the TOS or somewhere, but alas, we are reduced to having volunteers like me post some of them here and there. Ridiculous.
Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters or some html tricks to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
co-on.....as in racc-oon, coc-oon, etc.
cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
cu-nt.....as in Scu-nthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, drift-wood, etc.
ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
hu-mp… as in th-ump, th-umper, th-umping
jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
o-rgy….as in po-rgy, zo-rgy, etc.
pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
p-orn… as in p-ornography
pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
sp-ic.....as in desp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
sp-ook… as in sp-ooky, sp-ooked
ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
Thanks a bunch, Helpful!
Then take it ouf of government, Freethinker
swaf... Yo, where did this NEW AGE LIE and NONSENSE come from that "Jesus hung out with sinners." THE LORD JESUS CHRIST DID NOT "HANG OUT" WITH SINNERS. What The Lord Jesus Christ did was that He did NOT "forsake sinners." So, He made it a point (unlike the Pharisees) to not "shun sinners." But, make no mistake, The Lord Jesus Christ as THE BIBLE clearly details and depicts spent time with sinners to CALL THEM TO REPENTANCE. What did He tell the sinful woman... "Neither do I condemn you. GO AND SIN NO MORE." What did He tell sinners... "Your SINS be FORGIVEN." Y'all want to paint Jesus Christ as some hippy dude who "partied and kicked it" with sinners and that was that! No baby, he did receive sinners, but made it 100% CLEAR that His purpose of "hanging" (as y'all wanna say) around them was not to "accept" and "approve" their SINS, but to CALL THEM TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS. To call them to TURN FROM THEIR SINS. To call them to BE HEALED & DELIVERED OF THEIR SINS. To call them to be CHANGED FROM THEIR SINS. Y'all want a "jesus" that is "cool with y'all sins." But, let me REMIND YOU of what THE LORD JESUS CHRIST says: "I have come to call the SINNER to REPENTANCE, I have come for those who are SICK and BOUND, not those who are well and need no physician." Saying... If you are MESSED UP IN SIN, He has come to SET YOU FREE FROM SIN, not "set you free to DO YOUR SINS." For He says: "If I had not come, then you would have an 'excuse' (cloke) for your sin." THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST IS 100% REPENTANCE, TRANSFORMATION & FORGIVENESS & POWER TO DESTROY SINS. Y'all trying to make a "person jesus" that is cool, tolerant and accepting of SIN. But, that is NOT THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! For we see IN HIS WORD (THE BIBLE) that every opportunity and encounter He had with Sinners, He let them know first He loved them, and that The Father loved them, BUT... Baby, they gotta STOP! They gotta CHANGE! They gotta TURN! They gotta DENY THEMSELVES. They gotta REPENT! - THIS IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. *** SIN, NO SIN (I don't care who you are, what it is, or how the "world" wants to "package your sin" in a "neat little wrapping" called "rights" or "civility" or "whatever" it is SIN and SIN is not acceptable at any time with The Lord Jesus Christ - HE IS HOLY!) He came to "set us free from sin" and "reprove sin" NOT say it is "OK." THE WORLD SAYS THAT. THAT IS THE LIE OF THE WORLD. But, the TRUTH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST - THE TRUTH OF GOD - HE HAS THE POWER TO DELIVER US FROM SIN! It just simply comes down to our "will" and "willingness" and "obedience" to GIVE IT TO HIM. TO SURRENDER.
L. PAT, keep your incoherent slobbering about your nasty sky fairy to yourself please. Better wipe your chin now.
Buddy, if Pat needs to wipe his chin, you need to wipe heck of a lot more then he does. You're sunk in the mud, buster, and can't see from mud in your eyes! The very One you reject and insult, you surely do need desperetely. Only Christ Jesus can set you free!
Any god does not apply to pepole unless the individual wants that god to have any meaning to him/her.
L. Pat Williams, I receive and agree. We're talking about The Bible, God's Word and if we call ourselves followers of the truth and His word, we cannot be deceived. God created Adam and Eve ... the man and the woman. Different body parts, so that they could be fruitful and multiply. I don't hold anything against anybody and love my fellow man, but in this case, Tim, you're wrong.
"Any god does not apply to pepole unless the individual wants that god to have any meaning to him/her"
You are a soul of shallow understanding!
I understand perfectly prism – your god is not my god – nothing in the universe is more certain.
Gay agenda is just that the gat agenda, not the rest of society unless they let the wool be pulled over their eyes on what normal is.
Being gay is within the range of normal with no doubt whatsoever. Religious teachings do not apply to people that believe otherwise. In otherwords if a christian does not believe in being gay they can try to not be gay despite they have no choice in the matter. What a christian believes does not apply to non christians or even to all christians. Gays deserve their civil rights.
Didn't someone famous say, if you violate one person's civil rights, you violate everyone's civil rights.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.