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Why is obscure Bible verse from Exodus trending on Twitter?
Rapper Pusha T, far left, has a song out that takes its name from a verse in Exodus.
May 24th, 2012
12:21 PM ET

Why is obscure Bible verse from Exodus trending on Twitter?

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN) - It’s not every day a Bible verse lights up social media, but a relatively obscure verse from the Hebrew Bible - what Christians call the Old Testament - was trending on Twitter worldwide Thursday.

The verse, Exodus 23:1, offers this admonition: “You shall not spread a false report. You shall not join hands with the wicked to act as a malicious witness.” (New Revised Standard Version)

It comes in a section following Moses’ bringing the Ten Commandments down from Mount Sinai. "Exodus 23:1" also is the title of a new song from rapper Pusha T, which may explain why it’s trending.

In the song, Pusha T aims verbal barbs at someone who he says wronged him. Hip-hop websites have speculated that that someone is fellow rapper Drake.

“Beef is best served like steak/well done/get a gun in your face,” Pusha T raps in the song, which makes no mention of the Bible verse but which certainly channels its spirit.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

And the rapper cited the verse Thursday when he tweeted: "Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness." That’s the New Living Translation of Exodus 23:1.

The Book of Exodus tells the story of the Israelites fleeing from bondage in Egypt, wandering in the desert in the years before they reach Israel. Exodus 23:1 comes not long after the story of God’s parting of the Red Sea so that the Israelites could escape, a tale that established Moses as a hero.

After Moses returns from Sinai and delivers the Ten Commandments, he goes on to explain God’s laws in greater detail. The laws dictate how the Israelites are to function as a society, regarding everything from property rights to the conduct of annual festivals.

Gallery: Bible verses and pop culture

“This verse is understood by the rabbis to mean two separate things,” Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld from Ohev Sholom, the National Synagogue in Washington, wrote in an e-mail to CNN, referring to Exodus 23:1.

“The great medieval commentator Rashi understands the first half of the verse to mean: ‘Don't accept a false report or malicious rumors about someone,’ ” the scholar said. “Other commentators say the first part of the verse means don't spread false rumors.

“The second part of the verse has a slightly different meaning. It means: ‘Don't convince another person to join with you and offer false testimony,’” Herzfeld wrote, noting that Jewish law requires two witnesses for testimony to be heard.

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O. Wesley Allen Jr., an associate professor of homiletics and worship at Kentucky's Lexington Theological Seminary, said that Exodus 23:1 is among several verses in which “God dictates to Moses instructions that in different ways unpack and expand upon elements of the (Ten Commandments).”

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Music

soundoff (883 Responses)
  1. jabari70

    Obviously if it's trending on Twitter then the Jewish media put it out there especially since it's all about them or at least who they pretend to be. They own Facebook, Twitter and all of the social media.

    June 10, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
  2. Robin Williams

    So far you must have tried various methods to memorize Bible verses, but sometimes we are not able to remember it correctly. One of my friends gave me an excellent idea to memorize the Bible verses. He showed me his android phone to which he had downloaded an application which puts holy verses on your phone wallpaper. What is more amazing is that the verses keep on changing after some time. In today’s world everyone keeps their phone with themselves every time, so whenever you see your phone you see a verse. What could be more better way to memorize the verses other than this. The application can be downloaded from the link https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nbs.free.goodfriday to your android phone.
    You can send the verse as a message to your friend or post the verse to your friend’s facebook wall.
    What could be more better way to share the Word Of The Lord. God bless us all.

    June 3, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • NutGrinder

      Why do you memorize bible verses??

      June 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
  3. David

    Few things are more frightening than a man with a gun and a bible.

    It's time to seperate church and hate.

    May 27, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • howart Dao

      Only after you can hate & deceit from guns & NRA 🙂

      May 27, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • gary

      i wish we could get rid of both

      May 27, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
  4. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus, and other horrible diseases that cause horrid suffering and death to millions of people worldwide.

    And then he wants to torture you in hell forever if you suspect that he doesn't exist, even given that there is no specific evidence for his existence and that he apparently hasn't shown his face for at least 2000 years if ever.

    Wow, god must be quite the cruel, evil jerk. To be polite.

    May 27, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Kathy H

      It's easy to look at the suffering in the world and blame God. It's also easy to look at the failings of the church and blame God. A church is built by people, who are imperfect, therefor it's only reasonable for the church itself to have flaws. Same for the world. Just because God's word is sited to be the basis of someones bad actions, that doesn't make it so. We were all given free will, which means we ultimitatly live with the consequences of our actions. It is proven that almost all disease today is pretty much self induced by what we eat and pollute our world with. As for the weather....not sure, but I'm sure we've caused most of that with global warming and such. Maybe it's because most religions teach of an angry God who is going to throw us in Hell for our sins if we don't repent. Is that really true, or is that a way of a "church" to get us to come every Sunday and line their pockets. The God I read about tells me to Love my neighbor and live a life free of worshipping "things" He also gave me free will to make mistakes and sent his Son to die for those mistakes so I can be forgiven and move on. I also know there is more out there than what I see in this life. Yes there is suffering, and it concerns and saddens me daily, but that's why they call it faith....I have faith that is serves a purpose larger than what I can know and I'm also responsible enough to think that maybe it is our fault, not Gods, that we suffer from the consequences of the choices we've made as a society. With free will comes the consequences of that free will. I find it very interesting that no matter what religion you look at there is always a God who teaches Love and consequences for bad actions, Christians have Hell, others have Karma, Even witchcraft believes in getting back what you throw out there. No matter what religion you choose or don't choose, I hope we all live the best, kindest, most loving life we can. It is proven that the more we live our lives in the service of others and caring about others the better quality of life we have mentally and physically. That should tell us something.

      May 28, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
  5. smk

    In Quran God speaks to the whole humanity

    “Proclaim, He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him." [112:1]

    “They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]

    “The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]

    “No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]

    "It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is." [19:35]

    God will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside God?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.[5:116]

    The Messiah, son of Mary is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate! [5:75]

    (they are condemned) for disbelieving and uttering about Mary a gross lie. [4:156]

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to clear your misconception by going to whyIslam org website.

    May 27, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • howart Dao

      You misconceptions you really confused me !!!!

      May 27, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
  6. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things

    May 27, 2012 at 7:03 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Prayer has never done anything other than waste time. Heaven sent us tsunamis, earthquakes, floods, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus, and other horrible diseases that cause horrid suffering and death to millions of people worldwide.

      And then he wants to torture you in hell forever if you suspect that he doesn't exist, even given that there is no specific evidence for his existence and that he apparently hasn't shown his face for at least 2000 years if ever.

      Wow, god must be quite the cruel, evil jerk. To be polite.

      May 27, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • David

      2000 years of prayer and NOTHING to show for it...why can't you people pray starvation away?

      You are useless.

      May 27, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • gary

      Atheism is myth understood.

      May 27, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Chuck

      Prayer Changes nothing. People make changes.

      May 27, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
    • Fidelio

      Look at it another way – God gave us benough food for everyone. Instead of those who HAVE it are willing to share with those who HAVEN'T there will be starvation in the world.
      God's fault? Get outta here.
      Blame the plain pigs who buy way too much to eat every week on Monday and throw rotten stuff away that they can't shove into their greedy faces away on a Saturday?
      What about the Obese – they eat enough for 6 normal people a day?

      No my friend – Man is the cause of starvation of his fellow human beings! Blaming God is a cop out; accepting that WE are responsible for our brothers deaths because we won't share takes guts.

      May 28, 2012 at 4:38 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      May 29, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • bismarket

      Hello again, obvious TROLL;-[)

      June 8, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
  7. hotel in shanghai,shanghai hotels,shanghai hotel,hotel at shanghai

    Wow, incredible blog layout! How long have you ever been running a blog for? you made blogging look easy. The full glance of your website is fantastic, let alone the content!

    May 27, 2012 at 3:02 am |
  8. Kindness

    Kindness
    Some thoughts to consider without a typical ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome

    May 26, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • mema

      Kindness...nice to hear words from someone with true scriptural understanding and faith. You describe it well. For me it is like that first drink of cool water on a hot day. That breeze that bring the fresh smell of spring flowers. I close my eyes and breath in deeply. Nothing like it. Its refreshing to know truth, to be able to let all those pre concieved notions behind. That moment when you feel free and it clicks and suddenly makes sense and as sure as you know the sun will rise, you know its truth. To look up at the night sky and and be filled with awe at the sheer power of Him. And yet that most powerfull being loves us so dearly. Its truely amazing. Thanks for your post.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:51 am |
  9. killuminati

    We need some1 2 expose these soul salers anyway,way 2 go Pusha T!

    May 25, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
  10. Enlighten Up

    Do not try to educate the wise. ~George Fox

    May 25, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
  11. US

    why dont all these people criticizing christians go on a rampage against Pusha T for quoting scripture

    May 25, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • Bet

      We don't care if someone sings a song, we care when discriminatory laws are passed.

      May 26, 2012 at 11:37 am |
  12. Brother Maynard

    Something I cannot wrap my head around -
    Jenna is killed when her car is slammed by drunk driver. Jenna's father, Steve, ( who is a devout Christian and has witnessed jesus to be his personal saviour ) is obviously devistated. At Jenna's funeral the pastor says " We should rejoice because we know that Jenna is walking in heaven, hand in hand with Jesus. Jesus knew before any one of us was born that Jenna would be with him at this hour" ( I've actually heard this from pastors )
    So god knew prior to Steve being born that he would take his daughter AND god knew that this act would devistate Steve. What is the purpose of giving life/ creating Steve only to torture and make Steve suffer by taking his daughter? Isn't this sadistic? Why would you then worship this god?

    May 25, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • momoya

      It seems pretty stupid to me too, but the christian has a standard answer ready: God works in mysterious ways..

      May 25, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • Brother Maynard

      WOW ... sure got quiet in here all of a sudden. Where are all the believers?

      May 25, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • WASP

      @brother: the thing you left out is how can the drunk drivers family have his funeral knowing he commited murder by vehicle, and the pastor also say he is in heaven? i've heard that one also......along with suicide victims, a distant cousin hung himself, the pastor reassured the family that he was with god now, even though suicide is an unforgivible sin.

      May 25, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • Christian messenger

      She is with Jesus then all her father has to do is wait till he see her again .. he has things he had better get don now in this world which is why he has not been taken...This is a kindness ...Stephen was taken in his second message iin the bible...The Jews were originally upset with him in his message so he repeated it to them and then they killed him... 🙂
      But the one who had him killed turned out to becoem the Apostle to the gentiles and in the process wrote 13 books of the New Testament , all the while Stephen is sitting in heaven immediately at Jesus' right hand.. 🙂 🙂 🙂
      This is a true event according to the promisess of the scriptures... and I having recieved the Holy Spirit as Jesus said , am convinced.. 🙂

      May 25, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • Mike

      Brother, you should know that God is more important than family and if Steve was a true believer, he would feel shame for putting his "feelings" about his daughter before his feelings for God's own prerogative to take his daughter's life.

      Pain, suffering, God puts these things here on Earth because he is a jealous and spiteful God. If he just made everyone to automatically love him, he wouldn't get that sweet, special feeling he gets when he instead gives them free will and a threat of eternal torture if they don't love him. I mean, seriously. Read your Bible. It's all in there.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • JW

      The Lord never promised no suffering – in fact he promised suffering.

      In the Book of Job, Job's wife says to him, "Curse God and die!" Job does not do that, he remains faithful even while being terribly tested.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @Christian messenger

      That's a lot of smiley faces for a post about death and murder. What is this kindness that you speak of? Is it a kindness that a parent outlives their child? Or a kindness that a person dies early in their life? If being "reunited with god" is the kindness (and the ultimate goal), then you essentially admit that nothing in this life has any meaning. He is all powerful and wants you by his side, but he will let you experience pain, and loss, and sorrow while you play your small part in his big plan. Basically, we're all pawns in an eternal game that god plays by himself.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @JW

      So god is a huge a55hole. Fantastic...
      Like a psychotic child torturing small animals for his own amusement (plan). If such a god did exist, he would not be worthy of praise.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Huebert

      So the gist I got from the believers' replies is: "Yeah, God murdered Steve's daughter, but it's okay; when god commits atrocities it's for own good." And them Mike went on add that Steve should ashamed for being upset at the loss of his daughter. WOW.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ecclesiastes 12

      1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

      2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:

      3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,

      4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;

      5 Also [when] they shall be afraid of [that which is] high, and fears [shall be] in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

      6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

      7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

      8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all [is] vanity.

      9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, [and] set in order many proverbs.

      10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and [that which was] written [was] upright, [even] words of truth.

      11 The words of the wise [are] as goads, and as nails fastened [by] the masters of assemblies, [which] are given from one shepherd.

      12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books [there is] no end; and much study [is] a weariness of the flesh.

      13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

      14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

      Amen.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Huebert

      If your crazy and you know it quote the bible .^

      May 25, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • HTL

      Brother Maynard, you start off on a false premise. Its the same false premise that many others have tripped over for ages. Here it is: "If God knows everything and is omnipotent and bad things still happen then its God's fault". Wrong. Bad reasoning from start to finish. Set religion aside. Set faith and belief and whether a deity could exist aside. This is lousy reasoning. Bad things happen because they can. Period. Either they are natural events or else they are the result of choices made by people. That's it. You want to fault God for not depriving you of independent volition? Or for putting you in a situation where you could get hurt or even killed? Because that is what that argument requires – a zombie's mind and a padded cell.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
    • US

      finish the story, Steve became a counselor for parents who lost children, spread the word of GOD and saved lives.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • sam

      @US...eh, I think it actually ends "Steve drank himself into oblivion and died of liver failure 10 years later."

      May 25, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • JM

      We are all going to die. That's the entire point of the Bible. The world was created perfect; man was in paradise with God; sin and death were introduced into ithe world; sin separated us from God. Jesus came so that death and hell wouldn't be the inevitable end of the story.

      "In this world you will have trouble; take heart; I have overcome the world." – Jesus

      If this world didn't have difficulty (sorrow, death), why would we ever think about God?

      May 25, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • 4321Trenquility

      All this talk about "GOD" and "Jesus". is classic Christianity. This is spring time, many moons after the gospel of Thomas was found and new translations of the old testament have been printed. The new findings show that there is no god according to the classic terminology, and that the Jesus of the New Testament is a fiction, most of the sluff was credited to Pytagorus and his schools. The Thomas gospel as well as Mary Madlain version have a completly diferent man, more like a Buddah. We have to live our lives and Know what is just, what is true, and what is good that we can share with the children. Have Mercy on us. In case you have truth that will help us have healthy envirnment, to raise our children in, tell us your secret. The Mormen's book has a passage about Faith it says that it is not complete knowledge. Implying that you need to look somwhere else for truth. This statement brought about the fifty year war and the murder of the Smith brothers.
      For those who want to understand who they are as human forms at present there is work being done on consciousness in Virginia. We need to brake away from superstission and instead helping one another understand the meaning of life.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      4321Trenquility, Jesus already gave us a blueprint to live the best life that we can (the Bible). You want to introduce evil as you deny Jesus with your baloney you seem to hold dear.

      May 26, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • JWT

      HS if jesus is as many people on here presume him to be then yuchhh. At any rate jesus is your thing and has nothing (correctly) to do with other people. It is only for those that believe.

      May 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • mema

      God does have the ability to know all but he does not abuse this ability. He gave us free will and told us that life is full of "unforeseen occurances". Yes unforseen as in no one on heaven or earth knew it was going to happen. We are not born with a date stamp for death, that is why we were given laws and advice from bible on how to avoid pitfalls. I can not figure out why a preacher would say that unless he was trying to help the family cope. However that should not be done by teaching half truths or untruths. Almost all the post to this topic show a common missinterpration of the bible and a general lack of understanding of scripture.

      May 26, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • Monica

      You can't wrap your head around it because it isn't true. God does not 'take" people to be in heaven with him when "its their time". Those views are totally unscriptural. Simply put, its more straight forward. "Time and unforeseen occurrences befall us all". (Ecclesiastes 9:11). Bad things happen is why Jenna died. God does not use his foreknowledge to predict when an individual is going to die. No matter who we are and what we have or don't have we are simply going to die one way or the other. We have no fate or destiny. So apparently when someone says that nonsense then they don't understand the Bible. Its just another lie told about God.

      May 27, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • AGuest9

      Actually, 4321Trenquility is closer to reality than Just sayin Hitchens Atheism is HeavenSent Herbie In God We Trust Prayer Changes Kelly Captain America Jack Kennedy? nope

      May 27, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Kathy H

      When Adam and Eve sinned that was the start of Suffering. God didn't create suffering, we did, when they chose to not follow God and eat from the tree they were forbidden to eat from they made a choice to stray from God. I believe God does amazing miracles and will interviene when he feels the need to. I believe in the power of prayer and the all if can overcome. I also believe that the consequences we live with are directly related to our actions as a world. The drunk drive mad a bad choice and a child was killed....not God, the drivers fault. God's place in that scenario is through family and friends that rally around those families and help them through that tragedy. I was in that place for awhile where I questioned what the Church was teaching, because it made no sense to me just like you. The more you stop following the teachings of a specific church and actually read the bible for yourself and don't limit it to just the bible, read the Koran, and the missing books of the bible. Read about Buddism and Islam. It's amazing what you see tying together. I just had a great conversation with my pastor about it last week and he let me know that his study of other religions has made his understanding of Christianity stonger. The bible as we read it has been translated by early scholars who were very political and picked and chose what to put in the bible we base Christianlity on. By tying in teachings of other religions it fills in the missing pieces of our bible. It may make you start questioning the theology of your church.....For some Christians that's a hard thing to do. But I ask, do you want to really want to follow God's teachings, or the teaching of what your church tells you to believe. Politics is everywhere....even in the church.

      May 28, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Nick

      God does as he pleases.

      June 9, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
  13. catholic engineer

    There's an old poem called "Darwin's Mistake". It narrates how monkeys resent the accusation that man, with his violence and selfishness, descended from apes. I was searching for this on the net and found an evolution blog. There was a discussion about the huge intelligence disparity between dumbnest human and smartest monkey. I found the following comment "“You had better be careful, I see this blog popping up on creationists sites. Not only for suggesting that Darwin was wrong, but that there is such a “profound discontinuity between human and nonhuman minds.” Why would this discontinuity exist? A higher power perhaps…Some intelligent designer perchance? “ http://scienceblogs.com/mixingmemory/2008/05/19/darwins-mistake/

    May 25, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • wayne317

      Intelligent designer is just a code for for magic man did it. God waved his magic wand and humans and chimps appeared fully formed out of clay instantly with no ancestors. Care to explain this process for us?

      May 25, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      So basically you're just pointing out that ignorant people will always take something they don't understand, slap the "so god must have done it" reasoning on, and call it a day. That isn't something to be proud of...

      May 25, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • momoya

      Darwin did not get many things right, but as far as the idea of evolution itself, he was spot on.. And not only that, but it caused a fundamental shift in how we think about the universe.. Darwin was far more correct than he could have ever imagined.. The process of evolution is how we explain the workings of the universe, the physical laws within it, the motion and formation of the galaxies and the function of energy and matter.

      Why do human brains function differently than the brains of other animals?. Why do whales have an entire section of brain we don't possess?. Why are eagle eyes and octopus eyes os much better than ours?. Why do birds fly and not otters?. Etc.. etc.. etc.. etc. etc.. etc.. etc.. etc.. ad infinitum.

      May 25, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • Christian messenger

      @wayne 357 ..it took a little longer than that...God took all eternity to plan it... he had to account for every single molecule and that means he would have to account for everything all the time , which means he took a long time before he ever spoke a word, and that's because he would have to consider every change that occurs when he speaks and this accounts for all things ever..he is even considering everything even right now , every thing that we have ever done and ever will do.. all that we say and the effects of every word we speak.. and every reaction and every solution that he will need to make to repair all the dammage we do and so on and so on...
      His solution is that before he started the creation which was already inside him , he simply spoke of the end in the beginning when he said let there be light ! 🙂

      May 25, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @Christian messenger

      I was going to respond with a sarcastic comment that mocked how an all powerful deity would need a long time to plan and do something as if he needed to study before taking the test that he wrote. Then I realized how utterly idiotic it would be to argue with someone who thinks they can even partially explain how god would go about creating the universe. It never ceases to amaze me how far a person can get from rational thought. If anything you only help to cement the idea that we created god in our image.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • Chance

      You see a verity of comments on these types of blogs but the key reason people believe in a planned creation is the complexity behind the Universe’s origin that gave human life a chance to develop. I would agree some people still blindly say well “God did it” and I’m not judging them by any means; but there are believers who integrate science to form an idea of the way “God made it” through physics and other areas of science. Science is not an enemy of the God movement; nor through religion, the bible, philosophy or science do we have a clear picture of the origins of the beginning or of life. Science has its theories and other beliefs have their reasoning but none have put to rest reasonable doubt. For some it all comes back to the beginning of the Universe, if there was nothing then why is there something instead of nothing. No I don’t believe in the God of the gaps or in the theories of the gaps. I believe everything has an explanation we just don’t have the means to understand all there is to. Looking at all the complexity of the universe and of life; I chose to believe in “intention” that the Universe was calculated and life was precisely intended, that they are not a product of a multi-verse or chance but a product of intention.

      May 25, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @Chance

      If most believers believed as you do, there would be no issue. I have little problem with people putting god (or any guiding force) at the beginning while we currently have no better explanation. It's still a god of the gaps, as that gap in our knowledge may someday be filled and the unknown pressed back a bit farther. As long as there are people who reject the "god did it" idea, there will be continued progress into said unknown.

      The problems arise when people try to move god up that chain and in doing so set us back in our knowledge. Though the majority of people understand that science and faith in a higher power need not be mutually exclusive, the fringe creationist movement should be opposed at every point lest we find ourselves regressing in our understanding of our world.

      May 25, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
    • sam

      If I was a monkey, I would be insulted too. We all have black sheep in our family trees, though. They'll just have to get used to it.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      NotBuyingIt ...

      For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

      Colossians 1:16

      Amen.

      May 25, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Funny. I love the allegation that humans have evolved from monkeys. You're seeing the latest instance of evolution. Nothing that you see today has evolved from any other species that you see today. Even the "ancient" sharks in the deepest parts of the Pacific aren't "less evolved" than the great whites, hammerheads, nurses, etc. They too, are the "latest" in evolutionary biology in their species.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
  14. Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

    The book of Exodus is all made up anyway. There is no evidence to indicate that the Egyptians ever enslaved an entire race of people. Those huge monuments were built by well-compensated Egyptian citizens. There is no evidence that Moses ever even existed. There is no evidence that 600,000 Israelites (plus non-Israelites and livestock) walked across the desert for 40 years. You would think with around 1 million people/livestock there would have been at least one piece of archaeological evidence to prove it. Not to mention if they had walked in a straight column 10 people/wagons wide, the column would have been well over 100 miles long. There is no indication in Egyptian history either of the severe economic/social turmoil that would have occurred due to 600,000 slaves suddenly leaving. No other surrounding nations noted an extremely large group of nomads wandering the desert either. The exodus did not happen.

    May 25, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • Trivia: god of where three roads meet

      Got any evidence to support the notion that someone made it up?

      May 25, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @ Trivia

      What kind of ridiculous question is that? When someone claims that something happened and you want to know whether it did or didn't, you look for evidence to support the claim. If there is no evidence, then it probably didn't happen. Why would someone make it up? People have been making up stories since they were able to communicate. If that is a new concept for you, then let me point you towards the section on mythology.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Trivia: god of where three roads meet

      @NotBuyingIt- "What kind of ridiculous question is that?"

      ~A very logical one.

      "When someone claims that something happened and you want to know whether it did or didn't, you look for evidence to support the claim. If there is no evidence, then it probably didn't happen."

      ~There is no evidence of anyone "making up" the Bible in a fictional way.

      "Why would someone make it up?"

      ~Good question. It deserves a good answer. Got one that can be backed by evidence?

      "People have been making up stories since they were able to communicate."

      ~Well duh, but just because people have been "making up" stories doesn't mean these are by default. Unless you are prepared to say that every ancient writer was "making up" stories.

      May 25, 2012 at 6:36 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jacques,

      GOD:

      I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

      Revelation 22:13

      HUMANS:

      (For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)

      Job 8:9

      Amen.

      May 25, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • AGuest9

      "Trivia: god of where three roads meet" – the latest name in the string?

      May 27, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
  15. Doc Vestibule

    OK kids – the creationists are out to play today, so the Doctor will give a primer in evolutionary theory.
    First we should define what a theory is in the scientific sense. A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers. In general, both a scientific theory and a scientific law are accepted to be true by the scientific community as a whole. Both are used to make predictions of events. Both are used to advance technology.
    There are 5 laws in the Theory of Evolution.
    1) Evolution as such.
    This is the understanding that the world is not constant, nor recently created, nor cycling, but is changing; and that the types of enti.ties that live on it also change.
    2) Common descent
    This is the understanding that every group of living enti.ties that we know of on this planet descended from a common ancestor.
    3) Multiplication of species
    This is the understanding that species either split into or bud off other species, often through the geographical isolation of a founder species.
    4) Gradualism
    This is the understanding that changes take place through the gradual change of population rather than the sudden production of new individuals.
    5) Natural selection
    This is the understanding that individuals in every generation are different from one another, or, at least some of them are. In every generation some individuals survive and reproduce better than others. Their genes multiply.

    These laws are applied in a practical sense every single day by thousands of people in a vast array of fields.
    Bioinformatics, resistance management in both medicine and agriculture, fishery management, s.ex allocation to breed endangered species more effectively, tracing genes of known function and comparing how they are related to unknown genes helps one to predict unknown gene function, which is foundational for drug discovery, epidemiology, Ribotyping, vaccine development, aerospace engineering, architecture, astrophysics, data mining, drug discovery and design, electrical engineering, finance, geophysics, materials engineering, military strategy, pattern recognition, robotics, scheduling, systems engineering.... the list goes on and on.

    Evolution is fact.
    Even the Catholic church accepts that!
    There is an ever growing mountain of evidence from different branches of science accu.mulated over more than a hundred years that verify evolution.
    Creationists have yet to advance a single shred of evidence to support their assertions.
    As a matter of fact, the leading rabble rousers in the Creationist world – The Center for Science and Culture (sponsored by the Discovery Inst.itute) openly admit that their goal isn't to teach what they think is fact. An internal doc.ument leaked in 1999 described the Discovery group's objective in pushing for creationism to be taught in schools as "to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies". They want to use Intelligent Design as a "wedge" to separate science from its allegiance to "atheistic naturalism".
    In other words, they fear that teaching FACTS to children will drive them away from religion.

    May 25, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      This is all lost on those who deny evolution. They'll use stupid arguments like "why do we still have monkeys" or "my uncle Jimbo Jethro never said nothing about us coming from monkeys" or "God did it" and that will be as far as it gets. It is quite sad and depressing.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • ME II

      @Doc Vestibule,
      Nice summary. Unfortunately @MaleSupportApparel is probably correct.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      When did anyone request your opinion? I know i have no use for it.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • JM

      youtube

      Look up: Ravi Zacharias Answers Atheists Part 1

      May 25, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      The thing about Ravi is that he offers nothing but his opinion on what he thinks is necessary for a coherant worldview. It is his definition and opinion. He offers no facts, just opinion.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • JM

      I disagree but I feel the same way about atheism.

      Apparently we are all guessing/hoping.

      We shall know when we know.

      I have to go.

      Everyone, have a nice day.

      And, if God exists, may He bless us all today. =>

      May 25, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @JM

      There's a big difference between "guessing/hoping" and taking into account mountains of evidence collected over hundreds of years by thousands of scientists through testable and repeatable experiments. As Doc Vestibule noted, evolution isn't a stand alone idea, but rather it's connected to every single branch of the sciences. Are you really prepared to call all of that into question just to support an argument that even the pope deems is invalid? If so, then that is just wilfull ignorance. It isn't about opinion and it isn't about atheism.

      May 25, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc and Jacques, I still find it ironic how Lucifer uses the sin of Pride to take you down with him. Free will.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @ HeavenSent

      Trying to educate people in basic science has nothing to do with pride. You should be far more concerned with the amount of pride you take in your ignorance.

      May 25, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      NotBuying ...

      Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

      Colossians 2:8

      May 25, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      That quote has absolutely no relevance to this discussion. You need not listen to us here to learn a bit about science. There are plenty of books, journals, papers, and articles that will explain it to you.

      If you want to take your biblical quote further and use it to completely shut yourself off from doing your own research for fear that it will "spoil" you in some way, then you are utterly hopeless. Using a computer to tell people over the internet that learning about science corrupts is ironic, nonetheless.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • sam

      @HeavenSent – it worries me that you believe there's a Lucifer. It doesn't surprise me, it just worries me. Also, we need like 6 quotes from the bible about it, you forgot those.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jacques, I retired from a field of science.

      May 25, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • mema

      @Doc.... you say it is called 5 laws of "theory". It is called theory for a reason, the lack of real physical or fully test evidence. Not one of these so called 'laws" can be proven beyond a doubt. It say common ancestory, so just because most living things share DN@ patterns that proves evolution, no it only shows that that small difference makes all the difference needed to make us unique. Name one sp€cies that there is a fossil record for that changed into a completely different sp€cies. I believe in adaption but that thats a far cry from evolution.

      May 27, 2012 at 5:40 am |
    • mema

      Doc..If we have a common ancestor, who I would refer to as God, then why is it than of all living things only man can reason, make choices, draw conclusions and have empathy etc..Do not these traits lend to the very demise for man. In nature if an animal is born ill or deformed it is either killed off or abandoned all together. Man would not do such because it is unethical and murder. In nature when one of the group can no longer fend for itself it will die off. Man puts their elderly in nursing homes or tends to all their needs. With the line of reasoning on evolution, how do hom@s€xuals fit in that equation. The inability to procreate is a issue that does not lend well to the concept of survival and evolution. If man has been in exsistance as long as evolution theorizes, it makes much more sense that our population figures would be much much greater. It also does not explain well at all the diverse physical appearance of men and women of different ethnic groups. What survival need is there is having blond hair, blue eyes, brown skin etc..We do not need the abundant variation of foods to survive or the need to see in a wonderful spectrum of colors. Yet we enjoy the variety. But variety is not at all nesessary in evolution. If not neaessary then why did it evolve!? Since the vast majority of atheist believe in evolution and that all life stemed from a single simple cell then why do they view an embryo as not life!? If a single cell is responsible for all of life would not an embryo be held in much higher regard!? And it is man alone that ends conception! All this free thinking without instict does not seem to lend to mans ultimate survival. No abundunt fossil record for man let alone for each and every sp€cies on earth. That number of fossils should be astronomical at best. Where are they!? Oh please with all your vast knowledge and education, explain to us lowly and in your mind, un€ducated Christians, how all this lends itself to ev©lution. And to why there is not a fossil record for ealiest life of any sp€cies that takes us through its trasformation up to and including modern day!? Explain:

      May 27, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • AGuest9

      @Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler said "He offers no facts, just opinion".

      Agreed. As much in the spirit of HeavenSent and his ilk? Romans 12:2 or any other such old piece of fiction is just that.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
  16. Prayer changes things

    If you cannot produce your own argument, perhaps you should not be arguing.

    May 25, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • rustywheeler

      If you cannot produce ANY argument, perhaps you should take your own advice.

      May 25, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • just sayin

      Substantial statement in the handle alone. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Nothing substantial in fiction.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
  17. Primewonk

    Ignorant Sockpuppet Troll wrote, " Evolution is not proven and remains an incomplete theory."

    This shows the depths of ignorance of these fundiots (fundamentalist idiots). In science we do not prove things, we explain things. Proofs are for maths and ethanol. Thus theories are never "proven". They can be proposed, confirmed, modified, or falsified. Theories never get promoted to fact or law. Theories exist to explain sets of facts and laws.

    The theory of evolution is the single most confirmed theory in all of science. The fine folks who study gravity wish they had 1/10th the amount of evidence for their theory as the folks who study evolution.

    Your post is an excellent example of what happens when you get your "sciency" sounding information from the "Pastor Dave's" of the world. The problem is that "Pastor Dave" is as ignorant about science as his minions.

    May 25, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • JM

      Then why are there no 'transitional' fossils indicating creatures half chimp/half man?

      For that matter, if evolution hasn't 'ended' why don't we see any transitional creatures on the earth?

      May 25, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Jacques Strappe, World Famous French Ball Juggler

      JM, there are all kinds of transitional fossils. You should try going to museums.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @JM
      There are plenty of trasitional fossils.
      If you're looking for Kirk Cameron's Crocoduck, I'm afraid evolution doesn't work that way.
      Do a bit of reading up on Tiktaalik for a fine example of a recently discovered trasitional species.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Piltdown man

      May 25, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • JM

      I mean chimp to man. Send me some links.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • wayne317

      "Then why are there no 'transitional' fossils indicating creatures half chimp/half man?"

      Humans and Chimps share a "grandmother" if you will. You are asking to see a half you half your cousin speices. Which of course makes no sense.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • JM

      Seriously? images.search.
      yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=goodsearch-yhsif&va=piltdown+man

      May 25, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • JM

      How convenient. =>

      May 25, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • JM

      Why are there still chimps?

      May 25, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • wayne317

      I mean chimp to man. Send me some links.

      As if they would change your mind? The goal posts would simply move.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • wayne317

      "Why are there still chimps?"

      Because humans and chimps both come from the same ancestor. We did not come from chimps and they did not come from us. How can you question something you know nothing about at all?

      May 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • ME II

      @JM,
      Humans didn't evolve from chimps. Chimpanzees and Humans have a common ancestor.

      For links, a simple search is all that's necessary, unless you're purposefully trying not to see them.

      http://humanorigins.si.edu/
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossils
      http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/evolution/ardi_fossilized_skeleton.html

      http://www.bing.com/search?setmkt=en-US&q=fossil+images+human+evolution
      10,000,000 RESULTS

      May 25, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • JM

      No. The goal post would not change. If something is actually proven true, I will believe it. Atheism and evolution seem to be just another faith-based belief system. Christians believe and hope in God; atheists believe and hope in evolution.

      I simply would like to know what the truth is and not jump on the nearest/most popular bandwagon.

      http://www.rzim
      .org/usa/usfv/tabid/436/articleid/88/cbmoduleid/1045/default.aspx

      May 25, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • wayne317

      "No. The goal post would not change. If something is actually proven true, I will believe it. Atheism and evolution seem to be just another faith-based belief system."

      Are you sure? Go to youtube look up kennth miller chromosne 2. There is your evidence.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • JM

      Okay, I watched. He is claiming as fact what he is hypothesizing to be true. How is that any less a faith-based 'guess' than anything else?

      May 25, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • JM

      He believes in God.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • ME II

      @JM,
      Watched what? your own posted video link?

      May 25, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • wayne317

      "Okay, I watched. He is claiming as fact what he is hypothesizing to be true. How is that any less a faith-based 'guess' than anything else?"

      No JM, he is referecing actual work that was done on in the lab. It was a peer reviewed article.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • ME II

      @JM,
      Oh I see, the Miller reference.
      Great scientist, practicing Catholic, if I remember correctly.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • JM

      The fact that 2 chromosomes are fused together prove that evolution occurred?? No, it doesn't. It proves that as best he can hypothesize, it occurred during the evolutionary process that he supports.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • wayne317

      "The fact that 2 chromosomes are fused together prove that evolution occurred?? "

      It's at the same place in our genome as it is in the chimps. What else explains that? See i knew you were going to do nothing but deny everything you were shown. You all do

      So tell me, what you would need to see to accept evolution.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • wayne317

      @JM

      We told you why there are still chimps. (you ignored that) We showed you genetic evidence of evolution. You are better off just being honest and say that you will never accept it no matter what because it conflicts too much with your belief in God. At least then, you'd be honest.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • JM

      A designer.

      If God exists and He is able to create everything: the universe, matter, man, life, nature...He is the one who created science/math; we just give them names as we discover/identify them.

      If I saw a computer lying by the side of the road, I wouldn't automatically assume it came into being by random chance. If I saw 2 computers (a Mac and a PC), which shared similar components I wouldn't automatically assume that they were related 'genetically' but that they were designed similarily. DNA, the earth, man seem too perfect to have come into existence by random chance and then through evolution. For thousands of years, these things have not appeared to evolve. Why then did they evolve prior to recorded history.

      I don't know. I'm just saying that I don't get it.

      When I read the Bible (Psalms, Isaiah, Proverbs, the New Testament), it reflects the behavior of people (mine, others) and gives me hope that maybe there is more to this than random chance.

      I have seen (what appears to be) the hand of God in my life and others.

      Call me crazy.

      Now I have to go. Getting my tires rotated. =>

      Have a great day, everyone. We aren't 'enemies'. We are all just people trying to live/figure out life.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:53 am |
    • NotBuyingIt

      @JM

      "DNA, the earth, man seem too perfect to have come into existence by random chance and then through evolution."

      This statement of yours just screams "I'm either too lazy to learn how these things work or too stupid to wrap my mind around the concepts". Perhaps if you spent less time reading the bible and more time reading an elementary school science text book you would better understand how this world works.

      May 25, 2012 at 1:43 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      Also, what scale are people using to come to the idea that "DNA, the earth, man seem too perfect"? Perhaps we are perfectly suited to sitting at desks, driving cars, and eating fast food, but that doesn't seem like something to be proud of. Take away our intellect and what do you get?

      -Compared to the rest of the animal kingdom, our senses are quite dull. We can't see as well as a bird of prey and we're completely unable to see outside the narrow spectrum of visible light.
      -Our sense of smell is vastly inferior to that of most other mammals and we can't even pick up electrical stimuli the way fish can.
      -We breathe, talk, eat, and drink through the same hole which can lead to a variety of complications (seriously, if god is a designer, he's an idiot, though he did manage to improve on this part of the design when it came to whales and dolphins).
      -Our lifespans are relativelty miniscule compared to the longevity of the oldest organisms. Our strength to body weight ratio, reaction times, and ability to withstand extreme conditions are pretty pathetic in comparison to various other creatures.
      -Our bodies are quite frail and we are susceptible to a wide range of diseases, infections, and other maladies. We can't even grow back lost appendages the way a starfish can.
      -As for the earth? It might be fortunately situated at the correct distance from the sun to support life, but it is far from being perfectly suited to sustain human life. As Neil Degrasse Tyson would remind you, the majority of this planet is deadly to human health.
      -Were you to wake up naked in the desert, the jungle, the ocean, a volcano, or anywhere within a fairly good distance from either pole you would likely be dead in moments.
      -None of that even touches on the fact that this planet cannot sustain us indefinitely at our rate of growth, nor the fact that earth is little more than a speck in a vast universe of which almost 100% of it is completely uninhabitable by people.

      So tell me again, how are we and this world we live in "perfect"?

      The arrogant notion that we are some master species within a universe created specifically for us is one you would do well to abandon.

      May 25, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • AGuest9

      LOL. ALL fossils are transitional fossils!

      May 27, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • mema

      Aguest9..."all fossils are transitional fossils". FALSE again.

      May 27, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
  18. Prayer is not Healthy for Children and Other Thinking Beings

    Evolution changes things.
    Gradually.
    Powerful.
    Proven.

    May 25, 2012 at 9:36 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things. Proof provided by post above. Evolution is not proven and remains an incomplete theory. Science is Gods gift to mankind, and consistent with the laws and personality of God who created it.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • Huebert

      Evolutionary theory is one of the most supported theories in all of science. It is central to our understanding of genetics and biology. Newtonian gravitational theory is currently more suspect than the theory of evolution.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      @PCT,

      Just because you dont understand something or are afraid of it doesn't mean that it isn't true.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:49 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      The Lord has not given us a spirit of fear, and evolution remains an unproven theory. That is a fact, the links between species has not yet been proven. Lack of knowledge would include those those that claim theory as fact.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Huebert

      Who said it's a fact? I said that it is that the evolution is one of the most supported theories in all of science; and that statement is a fact. Also, theory does not mean what you think it means. If you would like i'll explain what "theory"means to you.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Produce the link.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • Huebert

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
      pespmc1.vub.ac.be/EVOLUT.html
      http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evotheory.html
      http://www.allaboutscience.org/darwins-theory-of-evolution.htm
      http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html

      Check out all of those and get back to me

      May 25, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      nope

      May 25, 2012 at 10:37 am |
    • Prayer is not Healthy for Children and Other Thinking Beings

      @Cap'n Praying Atheism Isn't Sayin' an Angry Pervert
      Here is the evolutionary path of humankind, proven by fossil records and DNS ana.lysis.
      Even the earliest specimen shares some 98% of DNA with modern man.

      Ardipithicus ramidus – 5 to 4 million years ago
      Australopithecus anamensis – 4.2 to 3.9 million years ago
      Australopithecus afarensis – 4 to 2.7 million years ago
      Australopithecus africanus – 3 to 2 million years ago
      Australopithecus robustus – 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
      Ho.mo habilis – 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago
      Ho.mo erectus – 2.0 to 0.4 million years ago
      Ho.mo sapiens archaic – 400 to 200 thousand years ago
      Ho.mo sapiens neandertalensis – 200 to 30 thousand years ago
      Ho.mo sapiens sapiens – 200 thousand years ago to present

      May 25, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • Huebert

      So you ask for a link and then refuse to read any of the provided links....Why bother asking for them?

      May 25, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • JM

      "[The New Atheists] are not open or willing to go where the evidence leads, unless that evidence sustains their own naturalistic assumptions. They have covertly reduced all philosophical thought and deduction to– ironically—faith!" – Ravi Zacharias

      May 25, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Unproven theory and speculations based on the same faulty theory.
      Piltdown man

      May 25, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • JM

      The theory that the earth was flat was one of the most supported theories in history...until it was proven untrue.

      A theory doesn't equal truth...just wishful thinking.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      You offer no proof on identi ties or evolution. Your credibility is lacking.

      May 25, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • LinCA

      @Prayer is not Healthy for Children and Other Thinking Beings

      You said, "Here is the evolutionary path of humankind, proven by fossil records and DNS ana.lysis."
      Don't forget the parallel devolution of: Oves Aries Sapiens – 2000 years ago to present

      They share well over 99% of DNA with modern man (although recent studies indicate that the gap is widening).

      May 25, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • MarkinFL

      "The theory that the earth was flat was one of the most supported theories in history."

      This statement alone shows that you have no clue about science. Widely held belief is not support for a theory.

      May 25, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • Huebert

      @PCT

      A theory is an explanation for an observed set of facts. A theory can NEVER become a fact. Asking for a proven theory is like asking for a Phillips head hammer; It doesn't make a bit of since.

      May 25, 2012 at 1:40 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Those that continue to think carnally ...

      Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

      Colossians 2:8

      May 25, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • NotBuyingIt

      HeavenSent, if you're completely uninterested in this physical world we live in, you are free to leave it at any time.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • sam

      The word CARNAL is involved again. Shit just got real.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I'll post this again just for you NotBuyingIt.

      GOD:

      I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

      Revelation 22:13

      HUMANS:

      (For we [are but of] yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth [are] a shadow:)

      Job 8:9

      Amen.

      May 25, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
  19. ಠ_ಠ

    Some people just don't get it no matter how many times or however you show them how their religion doesn't work in any way shape or form.

    May 25, 2012 at 8:29 am |
    • just sayin

      That would be because those who know God know what is Truth and what is real. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • HeavenSent

      ಠ_ಠ ....

      Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

      Colossians 2:8

      May 25, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • JWT

      Belief can be good for those that do. But it is not necessary to believe and there mostly is no different between those that do and those that do not. Except for the fanatic morons on both sides.

      May 25, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • AGuest9

      The TRUTH is that no god is required.

      May 27, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • gary

      religion causes delusions ... ever read The God Delusion by Dawkins? Great book. God is pretend, Jesus is dead, no deities or demons, no heaven or hell. Peace.

      May 27, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Fidelio

      Gary – I just KNEW someone who's too dull to think for himself would bring Dawkins up to show off! Dawkins in his womderful book:
      [1] Quotes out of context
      [2] Makes no attempt to defend his theories which have been de-bunked by experts
      [3] Has as much moral sense as my parrot
      [4] Reduces man to animal levels

      But hey – if you're happy with a mediocre writer who appeals to the baser instincts of those who underwent the failed American education system – carry right on believing BS. Duh!

      May 28, 2012 at 4:54 am |
  20. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    May 25, 2012 at 5:11 am |
    • Huebert

      I admire your persistence. You are utterly wrong and you know it, but I do admit it takes dedication, or psychosis, to keep a failed campaign this long.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • just sayin

      Truth is always right. Talking with God is a life changing experience. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 9:18 am |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Absolutely proven

      May 25, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • BRC

      @Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things,

      What is your favorite food?

      May 25, 2012 at 9:23 am |
    • Huebert

      You say it's proven. Well, lets agree upon a test so you can demonstrate this proof to me.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:23 am |
    • just sayin

      @huebert
      Test : Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all this will be added to you. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 9:33 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      If this supposed god really is all powerfull then it would require no energy on his part to make me believe in him. Let's not get into the free will argument because that is a loosing argument on your behalf as well.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Rynomite

      I've prayed that you would stop leaving this same message on the CNN board over and over and over.

      See prayer doesn't work.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • Huebert

      Sorry that is a poor test, seeing as I would be the only one to observe any effects. What other suggestions do you have? I'm looking for something a bit more obvious, something that could be measured.

      p.s. I tried the seeking thing for years; it's how I arrived at atheism.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • just sayin

      The purpose of belief lies in your own free will and the value of love. Love cannot be forced, it must be chosen. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • just sayin

      When you reject the door it is impossible to enter the house. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 9:44 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      When you dont open the jar you cant eat the pickle.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Huebert

      I don't reject doors nor do i reject the possibility that a supernatural ent.ity, such as god, could exist. I've just never found any such enti.ty; tomorrow I'll check behind the couch cushions.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      I can reject the door all I want. I can climb in through your window at night while you're sleeping or I can blow a hole in the wall. See, you are not thinking outside of that god box that you're in.

      May 25, 2012 at 9:52 am |
    • just sayin

      Sorry honey there is only one door and He is the only passage. God bless

      May 25, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Huebert,

      And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

      Romans 12:2

      Amen.

      May 25, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Jesus

      ~Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      May 29, 2012 at 11:17 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.