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May 31st, 2012
05:17 AM ET

Church videos with harsh words for gays go viral online

By Richard Allen Greene and Dan Gilgoff, CNN

First it was a Christian pastor in North Carolina who told his congregation on Mother's Day that the way "to get rid of all the lesbians and queers" was to put them behind an electric fence and wait for them to die out.

That video went viral, fetching more than a million views on YouTube.

On Sunday, Pastor Curtis Knapp of Kansas preached that the government should kill homosexuals, in another videotaped sermon that drew lots of online attention.

"They won't, but they should," Knapp said, according to a recording of his sermon posted online.

Since that sermon, another church video with harsh words for gays has caught fire online. This one shows a young boy singing an anti-gay song while the congregation cheers him on in what appears to be a church in Indiana.

"I know the Bible’s right, somebody’s wrong,” the boy sings near the pulpit of a church. “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven."

As the boy repeats the line “Ain't no homos gonna make it to heaven," congregants from the pews rise and cheer.

The video, which was anonymously posted online and has received more than 300,000 views on YouTube, appears to show a service at the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle Church in Greensburg, Indiana.

Calls to the church this week went to voicemail, with an automatic message saying the mailbox is full. But a message posted on the church’s website on Wednesday appears to address the controversy, offering no apology for the video.

“The Pastor and members of Apostolic Truth Tabernacle do not condone, teach, or practice hate of any person for any reason. We believe and hope that every person can find true Bible salvation and the mercy and grace of God in their lives,” the statement says.

“We are a strong advocate of the family unit according to the teachings and precepts found in the Holy Bible,” said the statement, which did not explicitly refer to the video or mention homosexuality. “We believe the Holy Bible is the Divinely-inspired Word of God and we will continue to uphold and preach that which is found in scripture.”

The viral videos have drawn criticism from gay and lesbian groups and their allies.

Charles Worley’s sermon at Providence Road Baptist Church in Maiden, North Carolina, sparked a protest that drew more than 1,500 people last weekend.

In Kansas, Knapp's voicemail at the New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca was filled with messages saying "things you don't want your kids to hear," he told CNN affiliate KTKA.

An official with the Kansas-Nebraska Convention of Southern Baptists issued a statement to CNN on Thursday saying that Knapp’s church had left the Southern Baptist fold in 2010.

“Obviously, he has taken a radical and unbiblical stand in regards to homosexuality,” said Tim Boyd, communications director for the convention.

“We look at homosexuals as we look at all sinners,” his statement said. “God loves them. Christ died for them. The Gospel calls them to repentance and salvation. Therefore, we as Christ-followers should hate the sin and love the sinner.”

But Knapp is not backing away from his comments.

"We punish pedophilia. We punish incest. We punish polygamy and various things. It's only homosexuality that is lifted out as an exemption," he said.

He cited the Biblical verse Leviticus 20:13: "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act. They shall surely be put to death."

But he said gay people had nothing to worry about from the government or from him.

"I don't believe I should lay a finger against them," said Knapp, of New Hope Baptist Church in Seneca, Kansas. "My hope is for their salvation, not for their death."

Preaching against homosexuality the same day, another pastor appeared to wrestle with how conservative Christians should respond to proposals that people should literally mete out biblical punishments.

"What about this guy down in North Carolina said build a big prison, a big fence and put them all in there and let them die out?" Dennis Leatherman asked in a sermon at the Mountain Lake Independent Baptist Church in Maryland.

"Listen, I don't know that fellow. As far as I can tell, he seems like a decent guy, but he is dead wrong on that. That is not the scriptural response," Leatherman said in his sermon "Homosexuality & the Bible," according to a cached version of the transcript posted online.

The audio of the sermon does not appear on his church's website.

In the sermon, he floats the idea of killing homosexuals, whom he refers to as sodomites, then backs away from it.

"There is a danger of reacting in the flesh, of responding not in a scriptural, spiritual way, but in a fleshly way. Kill them all. Right? I will be very honest with you. My flesh kind of likes that idea," Leatherman said.

"But it grieves the Holy Spirit. It violates Scripture. It is wrong," he added immediately.

The Southern Baptist Convention distanced itself from Worley's remarks.

The nation's largest Baptist group said Providence Road Baptist in Maiden is not affiliated with its 16 million-member denomination and condemned the comments.

But the influential head of the giant movement's seminary does argue that homosexuality "is the most pressing moral question of our times."

In a comment piece for the Belief Blog in the wake of Worley's sermon, R. Albert Mohler Jr. dismissed critics who say conservative Christians focus on homosexuality while ignoring other things the Bible prohibits.

He contends that laws about keeping kosher, for example, do not apply to Christians, while commandments about homosexuality do.

"When it comes to homosexuality, the Bible's teaching is consistent, pervasive, uniform and set within a larger context of law and Gospel," he wrote.

"Christians who are seriously committed to the authority of the Bible have no choice but to affirm all that the Bible teaches, including its condemnation of homosexuality," he said.

A member of Worley's 300-member church defended him in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper.

"Of course he would never want that to be done," Stacey Pritchard said of the proposal to put homosexuals behind a fence and leave them there to die out. "But I agree with what the sermon was and what it was about."

CNN Belief Blog co-editor Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Belief • Christianity • Church • Homosexuality

soundoff (4,073 Responses)
  1. elmondo

    I'm agnostic/atheist but I'd just like to say that the ignorance of other atheists is embarrassing – just to clear something up the cause of most wars is not religion, certainly not over the past 100 years.

    How many of these conflicts were religious in nature:
    WWI -no
    WW II – no
    Spanish civil war – no
    Korean war – No
    Vietnam war no
    Chinese civil war – no
    Russian Civil War no
    1st gulf war no
    Bosnia – significant religious aspect
    The endless civil wars in Africa – some of them
    Afghanistan/iraq wars – started my islamic fundamentalists.

    May 31, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • Factors!

      Throughout history religion has been used as an excuse, or driving force, for some of the worst atrocities imaginable. From pre-history to modern history, religion is, for many people, just an excuse to kill other people

      May 31, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • Kristine

      Wasn't in that argument. Maybe they were talking about older wars?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • OOO

      Look, you live in a world of 7 billion people. There are going to be genuises around and idiots.
      Please refrain from generalizing, which just shows your own ignorance.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      Show me Factors! where your proof is about religious wars being at the forefront of major catastrophies! What's that? Too busy?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • Factors!

      Actually, "theistvill dog" I cant think of a single atrocity done "in the name of" atheism. And I cant for the life of me think of a time when thousands of people were killed solely in the name of Science.

      Religion, regardless of the flavor, has always had the power to unite people. You don't like the man in the village over, and wish him dead, and you need to rally the troops? Tell your tribe that God wants the enemy dead. You don't even really need a reason! The Magical Sky Wizard (whichever one you chose) can't be argued with! It is the ultimate power and means of control on a social level. It unites the people under one banner and gives them a sense of purpose, along with immediately validating any behavior (no matter how nasty and out of character) as OK.

      "Oh dear, I feel sortof bad about killing all the women and children during that battle. I hope I can feel better about it… and my leaders say that it is OK. Why is it OK? Well, because God said it was OK. Ah, well, there's the rationalization. Even Granny can't get mad at me for beheading all those children, and raping the mothers. They didn't believe in the same God as us, so they aren't really humans. I am a holy, just man with high social standing now!"

      Religion is the ultimate rationalizer.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      Your words Factors! are not proof. Show me the pudding (poof) for your claim regarding your position that religion caused all the wars.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
  2. LovingAtheists

    Richard Dawkins was asked about ra-pe during an interview:

    Justin Brierley (JB): If we had evolved into a society where ra-pe was considered fine, would that mean that ra-pe is fine?

    Richard Dawkins (RD): I, I wouldn’t, I don’t want to answer that question. It, it, it’s enough for me to say that we live in a society where it’s not considered fine. We live in a society where uhm, selfishness, where failure to pay your debts, failure to reciprocate favors is, is, is regarded askance. That is the society in which we live. I’m very glad, that’s a value judgment, I’m very glad that I live in such a society.

    JB: When you make a value judgment don’t you immediately step yourself outside of this evolutionary process and say that the reason this is good is that it’s good. And you don’t have any way to stand on that statement.

    RD: My value judgment itself could come from my evolutionary past.

    JB: So therefore it’s just as random in a sense as any product of evolution.

    RD: You could say that, it doesn’t in any case, nothing about it makes it more probable that there is anything supernatural.

    JB: Ultimately, your belief that ra-pe is wrong is as arbitrary as the fact that we’ve evolved five fingers rather than six.

    RD: You could say that, yeah.

    Stated during an interview with Justin Brierley; <http://media.premier.org.uk/misc/4b519ce0-5a9e-4b1d-86ca-8def12ebd5c1.mp3

    May 31, 2012 at 9:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why don't you answer the questions you've been asked?

      Cowardly? Or you just don't have any of the answers?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • Jen

      I was just writing that Tom!

      Well we can look no further than the bible as to whether r-pe is moral. The bible says a woman must marry her r-pist. Well that's lovely!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Kristine

      One Word: Psy-cho.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      And I guess you Tom have all the answers? Questions don't measure someone's faith but rather questions that are unanswerable will ever be part of mankind's maleability.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You don't have much skill in the area of reading comprehension, do you, Doggie?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • Leo

      Jen, Where does the bible say that Ra-pe is moral?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Where does it say it isn't, Leo?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • Leo

      Looks like the loving atheist is giving you all a little taste of your own medicine.. you folks don't deal with it too well do you!!

      The point is Jen is lying for the Bible doesn't say that!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Funny how you can't say it forbids it, Leo.

      Why is that?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      I'm sorry Tom. I just got out of the shower. That reminds me, "Have you taken one lately? Your words resonate with filth! You still have time to make it to the shower befoe you rot from the smelliness of your words! Have a nice showe. I will no longer answer any more of your posts

      May 31, 2012 at 9:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your batting average isn't so hot, Doggie-Do. You haven't answered anything thus far, so it's not much of a loss.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • Jen

      I'm not a liar. If you think that forcing a woman to marry her r-pist is moral then that's sad. Also, a father is allowed to sell his daughter as a slave. Her slave owner is allowed to marry her and if he does marry her he must sleep with her. Given she is a slave and has no choice in the matter....that's r-pe! If you do not think that's immoral then well....yikes.....

      May 31, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      I'm sorry Tom. I just got out of the shower. That reminds me, "Have you taken one lately? Your words resonate with filth! You still have time to make it to the shower befoe you rot from the smelliness of your words! Have a nice showe. I will no longer answer any more of your posts tonight! For a man, you surely must be gay.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Jen, I am bereft! The Dog says it won't answer any of my posts, even if I take something called a "showe". Do you have any idea what that is? I am heartbroken! I LIVE for contact with the Doggerel. Whatever will I do now? Woe is me.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, and the Dog'sazz thinks I'm a man. It must be new here.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Snow

      There are countless examples in the bible where ra-pe, along with killing of course, is perfectly justified and acknowledged by god as the "right thing to do". If you deny that than you need to read your own holy book that you tend to prescribe to us heathens, dog.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Leo does selective reading of the bible, and justifies it by saying "oh the old testament doesnt apply in THAT case, because I don't agree with it".

      May 31, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • Jen

      Sorry Tom, I don't know what a 'showe' is either. Where's HS and Evangelical when you need them? In the path of an oncoming bus hopefully? (ha ha, just kidding, since I'm sure some mor0n will take that literally 🙂

      May 31, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • Jen

      Exactly Hawaii. Funny how all the anti gay stuff in the old testament is always applicable though.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It's what every denomination does. The funny part is, if you go by a literal view of the bible, Fred Phelps is the most christian person I've ever seen lol.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ha, Jen. One can only hope the moron who takes it literally is driving a car....;)

      May 31, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Leo

      Deuteronomy 22 Is not an example of Ra-pe , but rather pre-married S-ex. Better standards than now days!

      28 “ If a man finds a girl who is a virgin, who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her and they are discovered, 29 then the man who lay with her shall give to the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall become his wife because he has violated her; he cannot divorce her all his days.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • ElmerGantry

      @Theistville Dog,

      Science is questions that may be answered, religion is answers that can not be questioned.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Only an idiot would think that it would be better to be forced to marry a man who has 'violated' you.

      May 31, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Leo

      That all depends on the translation.

      May 31, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • Jen

      Many do translate it as r-pe. It definitely reads that way if the English translation is correct (of course if the translation is wrong then the whole English translation of the bible is questionable).

      And the second instance? Let me guess. You think a slave being forced to marry and have s-x with her master isn't really r-pe either right? She should just be lucky he married her?

      May 31, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
  3. Kristine

    This garbage is generealized just like the "psychic hotline"!

    May 31, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
  4. Edward

    God did not write the bible..Man wrote it and made up rediculous rules and punishments such as death ! God loves us all .. Gay Jews blacks irish italian polish ...what ever! Anyone who wants to kill others for who they are should not be allowed in a church to preach such hatred and anger! Look at the wars around the world . Most wars are religions that fight one another...Pray for Peace??? what the hell kind of church can say that and then say kill gays ??? Let us remember there are those in the religious order who molest your children and hide under the sheets so nobody can find them.. Did God say they can do that in the bilble??? Sick and so is this pastor! He should be ousted from the church completely !!!

    May 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      I guess you didn't get the e-mail...

      There are no gods, not even just one.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      Who are you judging and why? What gives you the right to be judgmental on folks you don't even rightly know? If your going to judge anyone's religious convictions find out why they are so convicted to being religious.Oh, I forgot, atheist know everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      And apparently using a lot of punctuations somehow make what I'm saying more true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Factors!

      @theist
      . You're the one who claims to know everything. And to further ridicule yourself, you claim to know this even as there is no proof!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I'll bet most atheists know the difference between "you're" and "your", dear.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:10 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Hey Tom did you see some of the endings of my discussions with Chad?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Purely an emphasis HawaiiGuest nothing more and certainly nothing less.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @HG, no, I didn't. Where are they? Did the Chard do his usual dance?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      And yet in a practical sense of how people will read your post, it is either useless or detrimental to any point you are trying to make.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      He ended up running away after I pointed out his selective argumentation and false conclusions. He no longer responds to any of my posts.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Which thread, HG? I'd love to see the exchange. The Chard is an especially stupid iteration of the phony Christian.

      May 31, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It was when he talking about probability. I can't remember the exact thread.

      May 31, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Theres one on page 1 and 7 of Conservative leader agrees to visit home of married gay couple for first time. Fred jumped in that one and ran away as well.

      The one I was thinking of is on page 97 of Video of North Carolina pastor's plan to 'get rid of' gays goes viral.

      May 31, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
  5. TJ

    And so as prophesied the church will be persecuted and slain, they will only bring it upon themselves as can be seen with these so called good christian folks. They all quote the bible but none follow the teachings of Jesus.

    May 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Bob

      TJ, get over your delusions. The church (or its followers) is doing the persecuting here, not being persecuted. And your "prophecies" are worthless unless you can be specific about the dates; bad and good stuff happens all the time and always has, so you could pick just about any point in history and have it match your mushy nonsense.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by TJ is an instance of the No True Scotsmen fallacy.

      http://www.fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      May 31, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
  6. Rebel4Christ

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXDp6J9hprI&w=640&h=360]

    May 31, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Was this dreck supposed to be proof of something, other than the fact that your taste in music sucks?

      May 31, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Bob

      Much better video:
      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhdonYOyWos&w=640&h=360]

      May 31, 2012 at 9:08 pm |
    • Rebel4Christ

      at least I believe life has a purpose!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Do you? And what purpose do you think that is? Now, answer this: what makes you believe that my life has no purpose?

      May 31, 2012 at 9:18 pm |
    • FedUP!

      Why do so many today's Christian people think that the Word of God and His message of salvation need to be clothed in ways of the world, like that music that resembles the sounds of hell, in order to convey God's truth to people?
      God's ways are not man's ways, , and Christians need not to drag things of God to world's level !
      Why don't today's Christians understand that?!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • Snow

      @Rebel.. Life's purpose is to bring happiness to yourself and to people around you while you are alive. its purpose is not to sit in the darkened corner and chant from a 2000 yr old goat herders handbook about what "could" be happening after the death. How can you not understand that

      May 31, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • FedUP!

      LOL!
      It's amazing how Satan has snowed you over with his lies about what is it is really like to be a Christian! You've been fooled!

      May 31, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
  7. elmondo

    Why is what this pastor saying really bad that at all?
    What is worse than physical death?
    The answer is eternal damnation, suffering and torture in hell. All gays (sinners) will be judged after death by god (if they don't repent) and go to hell (if you believe this sort of thing) so death in this life is really no big deal. Then you have to ask yourself is punishment of this kind, either death by stoning in this life or eternal suffering in the next is morally good or in fact justified.

    To say that it is not moral for man to do it but then say it is moral for god to do the same (or even more extreme action) means that you believe in divine command theory (look it up) which is a very dangerous concept and the argument is full of holes.
    Christians will always give you the line that "all sins can be forgiven" – this is true – only only the proviso that they repent and accept god as their saviour.

    All this christian stuff of "you will be punished for your sins" is non-sense. You are punished SOLELY for not accepting god and repenting.

    Take two mudrers, 1 repents and converts to christianity on the day of his execution – result free pass into heaven, the other doesn't convert – result he goes to hell. Conclusion-people are not punished according to their sins. I seem to recall Jesus saying to the thief next to him whilst he was on the cross "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

    Please note that the ONLY sin that cannot be forgiven according to the gospels is – not murder, infanticide, adultary – but blasphemy (apostasy is probably included as well). Note that Jesus forgave man for crucifying him (which was all a scam because it the crucifixion was predestined to happen and all 'arranged' by god anyway)

    If all sins can be forgiven solely on the basis of accepting god (note death row prisoners undergoing conversion to christianity) then morality in terms what we do to other people is undeniably a secondary consideration of the christian and islamic faith. The ONLY thing that really matter is servile acceptance of god. Christians decry islam and site that islam means "submission" when in fact christianity is EXACTLY the same (with the site difference that you have to accept Jesus) – accept me and repent or suffer for eternity.

    Not only is it a sham but it's immoral

    May 31, 2012 at 8:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There's no such thing as 'sin'.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Marky Merlot

      The Bible: A collection of books filled with murder, corruption, incest and cruelty, often read to children on Sunday.
      (My apologies for sinning by plagiarizing ;-/)

      May 31, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • Kristine

      Hate to tell you what you will never find out, but there is nothing more (or less) than "lights out" when you die. You won't find out because...?

      May 31, 2012 at 8:48 pm |
  8. Factors!

    Thou shalt not bare false witness
    Thou shalt not steal
    Thou shalt not cover thy neighbor
    All commandments!

    WHERE IS THE COMMANDMENT THAT PROTECTS OUR CHILDREN?

    WHY WOULDN'T "GOD" PUT IN A VERY IMPORTANT "THOU SHALT NOT MOLEST CHILDREN" COMMANDMENT???

    WHY IS GOD MORE CONCERNED WITH MATERIALS AS OPPOSED TO THE WELL BEING OF THE MOST IMPORTANT LIFE FORCES ON EARTH (OUR CHILDREN)?

    WHY????
    WHY????
    WHY????

    May 31, 2012 at 8:37 pm |
    • Kristine

      Because the person who wrote that book forgot about the children. There is no God. (s)he is a MYTH.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:50 pm |
    • Factors!

      @kristine!
      Now if we can just get the crazy nuts to understand that we could achieve a heavenly place right here on earth!

      May 31, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • Kristine

      @Factors: Amen, brother! 😛 Really. They are not stupid per se, but deluded and brainwashed.

      May 31, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
  9. LovingAtheists

    Not possessing a religious basis for morality, atheists are fundamentally incapable of having a coherent system of morality.
    The Barna Group found that atheists and agnostics in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal dr.ug use; excessive drinking; se-xual relationships outside of marriage; ab-ortion; cohabitating with someone of opposite s-ex outside of marriage; obs-cene language; gambling; por-n-ography and obs-cene se-xual behavior; and engaging in hom-ose-xuality/bise-xuality.

    The Journal of Medical Ethics declared concerning the atheist and sa-dist Marquis de Sade:

    In 1795 the Marquis de Sade published his La Philosophic dans le boudoir, in which he proposed the use of induced abor-tion for social reasons and as a means of pop-ulation control. It is from this time that medical and social acceptance of abor-tion can be dated, although previously the subject had not been discussed in public in modern times. It is suggested that it was largely due to de Sade's writing that induced abor-tion received the impetus which resulted in its subsequent spread in western society.

    Population control is based on pseudoscience and ill founded economic assumptions.

    CBS News reported: "According to a mail-in survey of nearly 4,000 British doctors, those who were atheist or agnostic were almost twice as willing to take actions designed to hasten the end of life.

    May 31, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Drawing conclusions based on an Evangelical christian groups poll (because we all know how "reliable" that is), a suggestion of what a SINGLE doctor said in the late 1700s, and a supposed CBS MAIL-IN poll. Gee how simple life must be for you.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Atheists have no 'system of morality'? Really? Prove it.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Kristine

      You are absolutely incorrect and probably missing a screw or two.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • Factors!

      That is the dumbest thing I've ever read on here! Per ratio, drug user's rapist, child molesters, and murders are committed 96% to 4% respectively. Just to make it clear. 96% of the worst crimes, are indeed committed by the religious!

      May 31, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Theistville Dog

      Let the dung heaps gather around you LovingAtheists. They seem to be drawn like flies to the honey melons.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • LovingAtheists

      Apparently it was just an amazing coincidence that every Communist of historical note publicly declared his atheism.

      There have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm (NOT Including Stalin, Mao), These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal acts of the sort committed by Stalin and Mao…

      The total body count for the ninety years between 1917 and 2007 is approximately 148 million dead at the bloody hands of fifty-two atheists, three times more than all the human beings killed by war, civil war, and individual crime in the entire twentieth century combined.

      The historical record of collective atheism is thus 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. It is not only Stalin and Mao who were so murderously inclined, they were merely the worst of the whole Hell-bound lot.

      For every Pol Pot whose infamous name is still spoken with horror today, there was a Mengistu, a Bierut, and a Choibalsan, godless men whose names are now forgotten everywhere but in the lands they once ruled with a red hand.

      There is a 58 percent chance that an atheist leader will murder a noticeable percentage of the population over which he rules sufficient evidence that atheism does, in fact, provide a systematic influence to do bad things?

      If that is not deemed to be conclusive, how about the fact that the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them.

      If one considers the statistically significant size of the historical atheist set and contrasts it with the fact that not one in a thousand religious leaders have committed similarly large-scale atrocities, it is impossible to conclude otherwise, even if we do not yet understand exactly why this should be the case.

      Once might be an accident, even twice could be coincidence, but fifty-two incidents in ninety years reeks of causation!

      May 31, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Confusing correlation with causation is quite common among those who have no idea what either word means.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      LAzz: "If that is not deemed to be conclusive, how about the fact that the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians".

      Cite your source.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Kristine

      "Confusing correlation with causation is quite common among those who have no idea what either word means."
      I agree.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • Jen

      Loving atheists, did you see my post on the other article? Canada has a much lower abortion rate with a higher atheist/agnostic rate than the US (and there are NO restrictions on abortion in Canada). Looks like it's all your Christian friends getting those abortions 🙂

      May 31, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      LAzz is just posting drivel and can't even respond to the very valid questions posed.

      Wonder why?

      Spam bot? Idiot? Inquiring minds want to know.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Ohhh you only bring up the Inquisition, how nice of you. I think you forgot the multiple crusades, the salem witch trials, the constant degredation of the jewish by the christians and catholics up until right after WW2 and the holocaust, or not even mentioning the iron hand of the church during the ENTIRE dark ages, the complacency and silent approval of Hitler by the RCC, the fact that Hitler himself grew up a catholic and professed to be doing the will of god.
      That's just the christian/catholic side as well. We could go into the myriad of other religions if you like.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hilarious that this noob thinks the severity of crimes against humanity can be measured in terms of percentages.

      I tell ya, this idiot is 10 million times worse than HS.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
  10. Justin17

    Also i want to add is aren't church and state (Gov't) separated in U.s. so its up to the gov't what happens to Gays & Lesbians not the church. I got notion against the church its just they are going after human rights of Gays & lesbians which is so unfair. its pretty much as long as you live in u.s. your human rights are protected as long as you follow the law and obey the rules of your State and Federal Laws.

    *Sorry if i said something wrong im trying to make a point*

    May 31, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
  11. GOD!

    Its funny how god can give us 10 simple commandments to follow. And they are easy enough to follow, however I do at times wonder why god didnt make "thou shalt not molest children" a commandment! Seems like if something as simple as "thou shat not steal" is a commandment meant to protect men's property made in the top ten commandments, why wouldn't he put in a commandment to protect our children? Makes you wonder what was more important to the these "men" that wrote the bible!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
  12. JESUS!

    THOU SHALT NOT KILL!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
  13. TG

    If, as these religious leaders espouse, that they hate the "sin", but loves the "sinner", then why have they failed to follow in Jesus "footsteps" (1 Pet 2:21) and go to the homes of the people, "teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you" ?(Matt 28:19, 20) Why are they content to speak in their church but not go to individual's homes, as Jesus did, to assist them to make changes in their personality that conforms to Jesus life pattern, ' stripping off the old personality' and putting on the "new personality" ?(Col 3:9, 10) The members of the churches are content just to listen to a preacher preach from the pulpit, with each individual member never making any effort to follow Jesus life course and teach others what the Bible really teaches.

    May 31, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • One one

      "love the sinner, hate the sin" is used as a safe harbor for Christians when they realize what they are believing and saying is absurd.

      Like god said thou shall not kill and Jesus said love your enemy. Yet, Jesus/god created hell to forever torture people who don't believe in him. Sounds absurd doesn't it ? Oh, we'll, you know, it's just that Jesus loves the sinner but hates the sin.

      As if one little cliche can neutralize a mountain of rational commen sense.

      May 31, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
  14. pastor skinhead, is it?

    He should be arrested! And those who put money into his church, should be arrested as well.
    Him for advocating killings!
    And the others for supporting such a danger!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:42 pm |
  15. pastor skinhead, is it?

    Could these pastors be more Hitler like?
    What a nut!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • A Sepent's Thought

      Ichte stein en Berliner!

      May 31, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • pastor skinhead, is it?

      @"a serpents thoughts"

      You're right, only a snake would think Hitler is/was rocks!

      May 31, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
  16. trex

    ....All I know is MY GOD tells me that "VENGENCE IS MNE, SAYITH THE LORD"...........and ...."Those without sin should throw the first stone"....................I guess these hillbilly fake Christians would rather tick off MY GOD than have love and peace intheir hearts.
    fake Christians,...............YOUR DAY WILL COME and YOU will be asked WHY YOU HATE SO MUCH.........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
  17. Fred Mallory

    Clearly Paster Knapp is the Urban Terrorist who should be put behind bars. For a person of his position to recommend Death to any segment of society is absolutely irresponsible. If we put to death all those who are Gay or have committed Adultry as the Bible says, we would loose half of the pasters, priest, politicians and Society including half his congregation.

    May 31, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • One one

      If you include false witness (lying), That would pretty much wipe them all out.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
  18. WHATS THE WORLD COMING TOO!

    Any "business", "church", or "organization" of any kind that advocates the killing of anyone should be shut down immediately! This sounds like something Homeland Security needs to seriously look into! As these preachers are a clear and present danger to our society!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
  19. John holmes is a pervert!

    This is exactly why church attendance continues to diminish year after year!
    These CRAZED lunatics, are clearly insane, wimpy hate filled freaks! If anyone is a danger too society, it is them. Religious nuts are the main source of suicide bombing, and destruction across the globe! PLEASE PROTECT OUR CHILDREN, OUR FAMILIES, OUR LOVED ONES, AND OURSELVES! AND OUTLAW THESE RELIGIONS, THAT CALL FOR THE "KILLINGS" OF ANYONE!

    May 31, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
  20. taintright

    This Christian believes Knapp is WRONG!!! Knapp is a deceiving serpent of evil shrouding himself under the name of God. According to the Bible; TRUE Christians are to love our neighbors & enemies, not kill them. It's God's place to judge people, not mankind against each other. Down with these FALSE religious preachers. They do not reflect the teachings of the Bible and anyone who agrees with them will be judged severely by God in my opinion. I believe God will judge us based on our spirit toward Him and mankind...live by the sword, die by the sword; live well and you will be blessed.

    May 31, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • yeahalright

      The invisible man in the sky is just as ridiculous when it's the "nice" version like you believe in. Less hateful but just as pretend.

      May 31, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • taintright

      To: Yeah – if you choose to believe your existence through the Big Bang Theory or Darwinism, go right ahead. Those theories in explaining life are just too shallow. How does one explain the human body and its unique individual spirit functioning in accord without divine intervention? Based on scientific theories and probabilities, millions of people should have all sorts of major deformities and not live past their 20s. Physical and spiritual dynamic elements of mankind don't just happen or evolve from nothing.

      May 31, 2012 at 7:58 pm |
    • Factors!

      @taint
      there is a mountain of evidence that supports the big bang theory.
      There is no evidence that supports your deity!

      May 31, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @taint

      You need to first define and demonstrate what you call "spirit" then define and demonstrate that your god exists, then demonstrate that your definition of spirit requires your diety.

      May 31, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      taint, what 'scientific theories and probabilities' are the basis of your contention that "millions of people should have all sorts of major deformities and not live past their 20s"?

      Explain where in the theory of evolution Darwin claimed that species 'evolved from nothing.'

      Then tell me why you think that the fact that we do not yet know how life began equates to "goddidit"?

      May 31, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
    • DB

      @Factors – there is a great deal of evidence that supports the existence of God, you simply choose to not accept it as such. The irony is that your vaunted big bang theory does much more to confirm God than to negate him. What set off the bang? How did all the necessary ingredients for life find their way into that singularity? How did the laws of physics get in there? If you believe all that happened randomly, that the bang was powered by nothingness, then you could teach us religious folks a few things about faith.

      @Tom – “tell me why you think that the fact that we do not yet know how life began equates to ‘goddidit’?” It’s not just a question of how life began, but why does it carry with it such sophistication, such intention? The intricacies of life imply design. It is perfectly reasonable to posit an intelligent force behind it all. Although you may not know how life began, you do have a good idea of its sophistication, and the implications thereof. Are you comfortable ignoring that in order to preserve your atheism?

      May 31, 2012 at 11:59 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.