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American nuns come out swinging against Vatican in face of ‘radical feminist’ accusations
Protesters in New York show support for American nuns in the face of Vatican criticism.
June 1st, 2012
09:42 AM ET

American nuns come out swinging against Vatican in face of ‘radical feminist’ accusations

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

(CNN) – The leadership representing most of America’s nuns came out swinging Friday against the leaders of the Roman Catholic Church, in the face of charges from the Vatican that the nuns are espousing “radical feminism” and straying from church teaching.

The Vatican’s criticism of the American nuns has “caused scandal and pain throughout the church community, and created greater polarization,” the Leadership Conference of Women Religious - which represents about 80% of American nuns - said in a statement Friday.

The board of the group had convened in Washington this week for three days of special meetings, provoked by an April assessment from the Vatican that said America’s nuns had largely gone rogue and warned that they could be a negative global influence on the church.

The Vatican report said that at an annual gathering of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, guest speakers who preached "radical feminism" went unchallenged. The report also said the nuns were too focused on social justice and not enough on opposing abortion, euthanasia and same-sex marriage.

The Leadership Conference of Women Religious said Friday that the assessment “was based on unsubstantiated accusations and (was) the result of a flawed process that lacked transparency.”

“Moreover, the sanctions imposed were disproportionate to the concerns raised and could compromise (the nuns’) ability to fulfill their mission,” the statement continued.

The Leadership Conference’s 22-member board said that its leaders would travel to Rome this month to meet with the head of the Vatican’s Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the office that launched an investigation of the American nuns several years ago.

Hours later, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a statement from Archbishop Peter Sartain in which he vowed there was a wholehearted commitment "to dealing with the important issues raised by (the Vatican's) doctrinal assessment and the LCWR board in an atmosphere of openness, honesty, integrity and fidelity."

"I look forward to our next meeting in Rome in June as we continue to collaborate in promoting the important work of the LCWR for consecrated life in the United States," said Sartain, who heads the Archdiocese of Seattle. "The Holy See and the Bishops of the United States are deeply proud of the historic and continuing contribution of women religious - a pride that has been echoed by many in recent weeks."

Pope Benedict XVI, a theologian by training, was the head of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for decades before he was elevated to papacy. In interviews conducted while he held that earlier post, he spoke often about growing the church by pruning - becoming smaller but more devout before expanding.

Church experts say that the nuns have a few options in responding to one of the most powerful offices in the church. They could accept the assessment, negotiate or resign en masse and form a new group outside the watchful eye of the Vatican.

–CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Catholic Church • Vatican

soundoff (1,467 Responses)
  1. King David 13

    nuns should not be caught into the equality of male and females.... the Bible says it all... and these nuns have not been doing what they went to the convent for? either.... I know that many have become progressive in their thinking especially for birth control using contraceptives..... in the TED forum... Melinda Gates mentioned about progressive nuns... well ... on judgement day you will meet your verdict..... by persecuting the Church because of one or two individuals or more who may be fallible... but the head of the flock is infallible. The Pope's job is to uphold the doctrines and traditions of the Catholic church.. and if he makes a personal mistake that is his sin to answer to God...

    Nuns you take a vow of poverty and obedience... PROVE IT NOW>> .. and stop joining the pagans and demons out there....

    June 2, 2012 at 2:14 am |
    • Andy

      Give a retard a keyboard and you're sure to get a comment full of demons, spirits, sin, judgement. This is the 21st century – time to dump all of this drivel.

      June 2, 2012 at 2:29 am |
    • Sophos

      You have it right. "Equality" is a term of the Enlightenment period. No one is "created" equal and it certainly isn't "self evident" that they are or ever will be. That includes a male to a male and a female to a female. We are all different. This equality fundamentalism has BECOME a religion. If you want real change...flush the entire idea down the toliet and start looking at people as they really are. NO ONE IS EQUAL TO ANOTHER.

      June 2, 2012 at 2:32 am |
  2. THATGUY

    Have the US break off its catholics and then have them declare their own pope woman or man then start laughing as the sparks fly. The butthurt would be hilarious

    June 2, 2012 at 2:11 am |
  3. XxMacleodxX

    and then they are excommunicated and the fight is over.......this is a hopeless fight especially when religion is involved....they either fight for rights and lose it all (and essentially go to hell) or give in and listen to their religious leaders........I do not believe in what they do and could care less really but they are in a no win situation and they as nuns should not be worried about birth control or anything of the such...they took the vows ..follow them

    June 2, 2012 at 1:42 am |
  4. Jeff Cox

    check

    June 2, 2012 at 1:39 am |
  5. Fidelio

    "Nuns come out swinging".............er, as it says in the article these old birds with posters aren't NUNS! Are all journalists habitual and inveterate liars or what?
    And all you bigots love it! Muppets!

    June 2, 2012 at 1:22 am |
  6. tradcatholic

    Goodbye, good riddance. Let them all become protestants. Pretty much anything goes there. Don't like the rules? Just start your own church. It's not the real Church, but hey, if it makes them happy in this life. Boot!

    June 2, 2012 at 12:11 am |
    • badlobbyist

      You know I saw a Pew poll a few months back that said something like 55% of Catholics didn't believe in trans-substantiation.
      So shouldn't that 55% of Catholics go be Lutherans? I mean there was that, indulgences, and the whole direct relationship with God right? I think that's all that really was in the 95 theses.

      June 2, 2012 at 2:18 am |
    • MickyC

      Yes badlobbyist those that don't believe in the Real Presence should do exactly that. And good riddance.

      June 2, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
  7. howart Dao

    Religious dogma shall trump and tramples all reasons.

    June 2, 2012 at 12:06 am |
  8. Reality

    The nun problem is minor compared to the following synopsis of Catholic doctrine:

    Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    June 1, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
    • John

      Posting a website doesn't make your diatribe anymore truthful.....you are an evangelical atheist troll who hangs out on the religion blog and attacks all people of faith.....I'm not saying this as an insult but just a statement of fact.....it's what you do but it doesn't have to be this way.....I think you know enough to know that your way ends in an eternity of anguish.....attack me now to save face but please open your hardened heart and take your own journey to find God....ignore the radical wingnuts because this is your own journey.

      June 2, 2012 at 12:52 am |
    • Fidelio

      I'm surprised you're not totally embarrassed to show yourself up as a victim of the failed American education system! Go back home – play with your lego and come back when you're grown up. This page is for adults only.

      June 2, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • King David 13

      one word describes people who quote others rather than make their own research into what the real crux of the matter is.... in this case – you are a "demon" living and walking in our modern times...

      June 2, 2012 at 2:19 am |
    • Augustino

      @ Reality If you don't know anything about catholic, you'd better not make a pathetic statement. Trinity is not god in 3 persons but rather than one god with 3 main powers. God is some1 who able to do something beyond human imagination, not only his work but also his words. What if I tell you god is a heaven himself? Can heaven split into 2? Of course not but heaven can be also inside of your heart. Do you need a proof? It is simple because sometimes human has turned earth into Hell of a place sometimes, so all Jesus teaching is about loving each others and turned yourself into a kingdom of heaven. You have to understand deeply. Just because you are not a deep thinking person that's why you are so easy to be attacked by simple words, and you turned out to be a naive person as ever. You really don't know what it meant to become a true christian, it's really hard to achieve, just to become the truth itself. Mother Teresa and John Paul 2 are 2 perfect figures of a true christian for 21rst century.

      June 2, 2012 at 2:47 am |
    • Reality

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.

      The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      June 2, 2012 at 7:45 am |
    • John

      @ Reality – cutting and pasting stuff doesn't make it real....it just means that you are hitching your wagon to someone else who decided to post their stuff on a website. Here you go: "GHOSTLY CLOONEY HAUNTS ACTING CLASS
      BOO! That ghost lurking in the attic is…GEORGE CLOONEY!" Now you claim to know that George Clooney is a ghost....must be true because someone put it on the internet.

      June 2, 2012 at 9:05 am |
    • Reality

      John, John, John,

      Read my commentary a bit closer. Very little was taken from web sites and what was taken were news items. Much was taken from the referenced books written by some of the "top guns" in historic Jesus studies. The Catholic professor referenced happens to be a good friend.

      June 3, 2012 at 12:34 am |
  9. dred

    one should read Revelations chapter 17 and 18...and you will see what God really thinks of the city that sits on seven hills.I hope the nüns will listen to God, who said.."Come out of her , my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not recieve her plagues..'
    as for proving Jesus is alive, no worries, He will be back in the flesh as soon as all the prophecies of these days of distress are fulfilled, so stay alive until He arrives...however, should Death claim you before hand, you will know the truth anyway...and every aethist comes to know if God exists by the time of their funeral...unfortunately, they can't tell their friends the truth they have found then.So God is patient, for He knows the days of a man are short.

    June 1, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Excellent post dred, i couldn't agree more.

      June 1, 2012 at 11:27 pm |
    • Reality

      Thomas Jefferson omitted it (Book of Revelation) along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]

      Martin Luther once "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]

      June 1, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Paul

      Fossils.... evolution... nature...science....geology = reality. Wishful thinking, fear of death, stone-age voodoo = god. 'Jesus will be back in the flesh"... really? Really? Not muhammed, or buddah, or thor... or ghosts, spirits, sprites, pixies, santa... too many to note... but jesus.

      Not in my lifetime, not in yours, and not in any human life that will ever come after we die, will that ever happen. No suspension of reality for your personal benefit (or mine), no magic, nada. When will we shed this fairytale amd move to what really matters, loving life today, and each other, and respecting the only home we will every have, this earth? Overpopulation and exploitation of resources is our reality, not the nonsense of stone-age writings. Fossils dammit, there are fossils!

      June 2, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • Fidelio

      Hey dred – Do you realise that Belfast – in Northern Ireland is built on seven hills? Seriously. So where does that leave your dreadful message? Go on explain please.

      The sectarian strife in Belfast is STILL formly entrenched. It fits your quote a hell of a lot better than Rome. Smart ass!

      June 2, 2012 at 1:19 am |
    • King David 13

      Amen

      June 2, 2012 at 2:20 am |
  10. DoNotWorry

    Who thinks they need to follow the dictates of a bunch of nasty old pedophiles? The Pope protects his pedophiles and slaps the nuns for being socially conscious. Hahahahahahahahahaha. Parents who turn their kids over to the pedophiles should lose custody.

    June 1, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
  11. joderita

    The nuns are TOO FOCUSED on social justice? It is their passion and advocacy that is so attractive and Christ-like! Mother Theresa talked about being a pencil in the hand of God. These women are the same. Amazing leaders, role models and examples of Christian living. Thank you, sisters.

    June 1, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
  12. Pope Bullies

    What do call a nun who smokes?

    A Nun with a bad habit.....

    June 1, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
  13. Pope Bullies

    OMG the pope was bullying these Nuns..... I heard the pope had each of them branded and called them Mary Maggelins while he gave them old one two if you know what I mean..... :-0

    June 1, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
  14. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    June 1, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      No matter what name I post under and how many names I use, I'm still a blithering nincompoop. I'm sure I will come up with a name that will make my posts less stupider. I just have to keep trying.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer changes things
      Even this HeavenSent can find redemption in
      Prayer
      Prayer changes things

      June 1, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • Socrates

      Prayer changes things. For better if the faith and conviction are strong and healthy. But when the faith and conviction are challenged by the action of those in power, confusion is born.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • just sayin

      I'm not the sharpest taco in the chandelier.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:35 pm |
    • elmondo

      Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

      Sorry for saying this but why do you incessantly put the same post up on EVERY religious forum/blog again and again without citing any evidence.
      I have devised a trial to settle the issue once and for all.
      Take 1000 devout christians and 1000 devout muslims. Then inoculate them with the rabies virus, which has a near universal mortality rate (only one person has survived without treatment).
      Then get all the believers to pray for their survival and see what happens to the mortality rate (no treatment allowed).
      Are you up for it?

      June 1, 2012 at 9:07 pm |
    • Socrates

      Well, everyone is trying to understand each other point of view particularly for these people who are walking on to the street. It's good that you can maintain a strong faith.

      June 1, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
    • Ignatius

      I have nothing but pity for the deluded religious and their fairy tales, saints mythology, meaningless prayers and dogma. So much faith yet always trying to prove existence. Poor sheep.

      June 1, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      Good idea elmondo – you can go first!

      June 1, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • John

      @elmondo – only an atheist would want to kill 2000 people to win an argument in their own head.....why don't you go troll the lifestyle section.

      June 2, 2012 at 12:31 am |
    • badlobbyist

      Well then who's the guy praying for all the violence in the world? And all the poverty and starving children? And why just children, adults too? Tornados that kill people? Nuclear power plant disasters?
      And why is it that his/her prayers seem to be coming true all the time but all the beauty pageants prayers for world peace aren't being answered?
      I just prayed to be told who that guy was so I could send him a good hate email. Nothing. No response.
      I think you are wrong. I don't think prayer really changes anything.

      June 2, 2012 at 2:28 am |
  15. Socrates

    All things aside including personal views of everything, everyone and every human being, in the bottom of your heart, which one do you belief? Does Jesus's love for everyone and everything knows no bound? Or has it limitation of gender or enemy? Does He preach education by love or does He preach education by dictate?

    June 1, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • Mr. Praline

      Jesus doesn't teach anything. He is as dead as a Parrot (beautiful plumage, the Norwegian Blue), and you can nail his little feet to the perch and say he's pining for the fjords all you want, but Jesus is passed on! Jesus is no more! He has ceased to be! He's expired and gone to meet His maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed him to the perch he'd be pushing up the daisies! His metabolic processes are now history! He's off the twig! He's kicked the bucket, he's shuffled off his mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-JESUS!!

      June 1, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Socrates

      @Mr. Praline, if we are to have proper discussion, it is wise to not to offend others. You can believe what you like and so do they.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Larry

      Prove Jesus is not dead.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Socrates

      When it comes to BELIEF, you can believe that you are dead as good as alive. What makes you think you are not in a dream when the dream you think is your dream is as vivid as real life? But that's THE POINT I am trying to make. If you can prove it, you probably don't call it a belief, do you? and you didn't even finish read the comment. It is not a statement, it is a question. If you insist, feel free to change the word to 'Did'....

      June 1, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • Socrates

      *NOT THE POINT

      June 1, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • Monty Python

      I am having trouble with the concept that someone is arguing with the Dead Parrot Sketch.

      June 1, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Socrates

      Monty Python, that's if you can't differentiate between belief and fact. As I said before, feel free to change the word to 'did' 'was 'or so on. I am not here to argue. I asked questions but none of you seem to understand. But If you are not answering the 'big picture' question, you are not helping and just trying to mess thing up.

      June 1, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • Mr. Praline

      You are a marvel of stupidity. I did answer – Jesus doesn't do anything you are asking about because he is dead. Not in heaven, not doing supernatural stuff, just dead. He, like every other being that no longer lives, just stopped.

      Everything you are asking about is pure fantasy, totally without substance or evidence, make-believe, gibberish. Your questions have no more legitimacy than "how many invisible mimes orbit Pluto?"

      You are humorless, and you are veryid. Go back to one of your other handles, because you are the anti-Socrates.

      June 1, 2012 at 11:34 pm |
    • Socrates

      Hi Mr. Praline, seems like your only trail is to abuse and disrespect. The use of present tense and capital letter is to respect those who believe. And after explained what the difference between belief and fact, you are still clear as mud. Religion by itself is a faith. It is a belief system, It does not need to have substance. Socrates was great because he asked questions. He didn't just condemn for the sake of it. So, can you prove the non-existence of God in general? May it creator or destroyer?

      June 2, 2012 at 4:37 am |
  16. SDFrankie

    The Catholic Church is extremely sad and sickeningly stupid. It improves the lives of the faithful like heroin improves the lives of junkies.

    June 1, 2012 at 7:49 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      And yet William "Naked Lunch" Borroughs lived a long and productive life as a junkie.....

      June 1, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
  17. paul martin

    Let's face it folks the vatican is mereley the mafia-like hq of a BIG, POWERFULworldwide organized crime and pedophile protection organization under the cloak of religion !

    June 1, 2012 at 7:34 pm |
    • it is

      Paul, that is a ridiculously stupid statement and you know it. grow up.

      June 1, 2012 at 7:37 pm |
    • StanCalif

      Just wait until we learn what the nuns have been up to! So far, all we know is what the priests have been doing for many years. You think the nuns don't commit the same crimes? Come on!

      June 1, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • DoNotWorry

      Paul, that is a ridiculously accurate statement and you know it.

      June 1, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • reikimaven

      Paul,
      What do you mean "mafia'like"? The Vatican Bank has been tied to the Mafia for years. Check out the news on the current scandals.

      June 2, 2012 at 12:14 am |
  18. Suzie

    This is gross anti-Catholicism.

    June 1, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Christians have become the American Nutsi Party

      Anti-Catholic nuns? Really? You want to stand by that whopper?

      June 1, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
    • DoNotWorry

      Suzi, if you turn your kids over to these pedophiles, you should lose custody of them. Giving your children to pedophiles is against God's laws.

      June 1, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • b4bigbang

      To Christians have become...
      Yes, there can be anti-Catholic nuns, priests, etc.
      They're called heretics (apostate is a word that comes to mind as well).
      I dont like the cath org, but yes, most orgs have heretics...

      June 1, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
  19. George

    What's amazing – there were only 5-10 women in this protest and CNN has it big headlines – American Nuns come SWINGING..... At the same time the entire catholic Church is Suing the Obama administration for Obamacare – The entire main street media –
    MUM!!! Hmmmmmm Talk about bias

    June 1, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • Catholic Clarity

      E X A C T L Y ! There aren't even nuns there and they're not even fighting for nuns! Nuns don't want them to fight. Nuns are cloistered. They don't even come out and get photographed or look on the internet! Give me a break. Why can't people educate themselves before they're given the privilege of writing on a news network. Oh wait. This network isn't exactly the most unbiased...

      June 1, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
  20. it is

    To Jen, from May 30,
    Sorry again Jen, it was late, and though my reply to you on why women cannot be priests was not wrong, it was incomplete. To bring everyone up to speed, what i said was that the answer was akin to men not having the ability to have children (more or less). You replied that that doesn't even make sense. That there is no biological reason why women cannot be priests. And I would agree with you, in a qualified manner. The logic is that there are things that are proper to one gender that are not to the other, eg havings children is proper to women but not to men. But what is proper to men that means only they should be priests?

    Imagine that Jack insulted Jill. It would not be proper for Jane to apologize for Jack. Jack caused the offense, let him account for himself and make proper amends. The duty to make amends is proper to Jack. If Jack insults all women on behalf of all men, still less should Jane, or any other woman be expected to be called to account for that.

    Studying history from any epoch, up to present, it is not difficult to find myriad of examples of "men causing offense". Men have been offending, especially women, since the dawn of time. Wife abuse, abandonement, complete and destructive selfishness, its all to familiar.

    One response has been, especially since the pill, for women to behave like men and become promiscuous: Why should men be allowed to "sew their wild oats", and not women? What a difference there has been in the content of TV shows in the last 20 years. Prime time is no place for kids anymore. Men, in the media have been torn down and made a joke of. No more "Daddy knows best". This has not made men any the better for these responses. It is, even, easy to see that men have been let "off the hook" to be A******s, as opposed to being called to account. One may wonder: If men behaved responsibly, lovingly and servingly towards women, if there would be as many lesbians? I think that's a valid question. On the other side of the coin, if some men on the other side of the spectrum were careingly called to account by women to "man up", if there wouldn't be as many gay men? I think that's a valid question too.

    Everything old is new again, and there is nothing new under the sun. Even these two observations are thousands of years old. The writers of scripture knew all this, and they wrote about it. Who made the first offense? A man. It has been men, who have been prodded by God ever since to smarten up. Men caused/are causing the offenses, let them atone for it! The offense was deep, offending not only the whole human race, but God himself. Since God is eternal, How is it possible that a human can atone for that? Hence Jesus Christ, son of God, son of man, is able to make the sacrifice on account of men, and all of humanity, even though, as God he was the offended one. Now "in persona Christi" , in the person of Christ, the priest acts as Christ, making sacrifice to God. As a man, he is the briiliant example to all men about the real nature of man-hood: total self giving sacrifice. That SOME of these have GROSSLY abused their positions, both priests and Bishops, makes our need for ever more perfect examples of manhood even greater.

    Allowing women priests totally obfuscates the original offense and necessary atonement.

    June 1, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • SDFrankie

      The questions you raise about what causes lesbians and gays are not valid. They're shallow speculation based only on the current contents of your brain. You have no idea what causes someone to be gay or lesbian. Furthermore, consulting the present contents of your mind on the subject will not shed any light on the issue. But then again, such wool-gathering isn't surprising considering that you think it's reasonable that one man so offended a supreme being that the entire human race should suffer for it. If that can fit in your head without your eyeballs exploding ....

      June 1, 2012 at 7:47 pm |
    • Socrates

      Jesus! How do you come to that conclusion is beyond me. You have basically claimed that all men are criminals, offenders and evil. If I am not mistaken Jesus Christ was born a male. Should all male be condemned to hell then should we follow your point of view? You need not man up to be ethical. And by man up what do you suppose to imply? Getting married? Kill two cows? Rush into war? And with SOME of those Manned-up breached their duty of care, does that mean the experiment has failed?

      June 1, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
    • Jen

      I can't believe I saw this post (though I am in bed a lot nowadays with my morning, aka all-day sickness). I would agree with SDFrankie. I don't believe that how women and men act has ANYTHING to do with why people are gay or lesbian. If there seems like there are more of them nowadays it is just because they are finally able to exit the closet (thank goodness). My husband's brother is gay and has known he was gay since the age of 3. Well before he would have had to 'man up' for anything.

      You and I just have very different perspectives on the roles of men and women. I have the perspective that women can do anything they set their minds to. Military, fire fighting, etc (I realize that the physical requirements count more women then men out of these professions but certainly there are women out there that are more than capable). I'm probably not the type of woman you would want to be married to. I have no issues with pre-marital s-x (when my daughters are older I will have no problems taking them to the doctor to get birth control), I swear, I have a high paying job and my husband and I are both extremely career driven. You may think that women like me are the reason society is going to hell; I think women like me are why society is getting better. I also think you are wrong that women are not standing up to men. The fact is there was no 'Daddy knows best' in real life. Forty years ago a man would never be arrested for beating the crap out of his wife, and men were legally allowed to r-pe their wives. Domestic violence is going down thanks to women standing up for themselves, and gaining our independence. The women in the 1950s were not standing up for themselves. They were trapped and had no financial independence. I doubt very few of them felt comfortable calling there husbands -ssholes (I on the other hand have no problems with it 🙂

      And as for the god stuff, well, I don't believe in any of it. But guess what? My husband is Catholic. And he could not care less that I am agnostic. He's a fantastic guy, and he loves that I am outspokenly pro choice and pro gay marriage. He doesn't want to be married to a robot.

      June 1, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • Jen

      'their husbands' – whoops

      June 1, 2012 at 8:30 pm |
    • DoNotWorry

      You don't speak an ounce of logic, sugar.

      June 1, 2012 at 10:47 pm |
    • Robert Burns

      Totally bogus argument. Nuns have been abusing for years, as well as, priests.
      As for the male priest issue, the reason the Church started the celibacy tradition is economic. The Church did not want to pay for extended family, even though they have secretly for centuries. There actually were women in priest positions centuries ago, even as high as bishop.

      June 1, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.