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The Gospel of Stephen King
Is this a vampire from Stephen King’s “Salem’s Lot” movie or a character from one of the author’s "sermons"? Both, pastors say.
June 2nd, 2012
10:00 PM ET

The Gospel of Stephen King

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) – When the horror novelist Stephen King was once asked why he wrote such gross stories, he said he did it because he had the heart of a small boy which he kept in a jar on his desk.

With his beady eyes and I-just-killed-the-cat grin, King looks and sounds like a horror novelist. But when the Rev. Paul F.M. Zahl read several of King’s novels, he learned something new about the author: There’s a lot of faith behind his fright.

Zahl says some of the most stirring affirmations of Christian faith can be found in the chilling stories of King. The horror master has been preaching sermons to millions of readers for years, only most of King’s fans don’t know it, he says.

“People tend to think that Stephen King is anti-religious because he is a horror writer, but that’s completely mistaken,” says Zahl, a retired Episcopal priest who has written about King’s religious sensibility for Christianity Today magazine. “Several of his books are parables of grace in action.”

Want to read a powerful meditation on Jesus’ sacrificial love? Check out how King links the death of the mammoth death row inmate John Coffey (note the initials, J.C.) to Jesus’ crucifixion in “The Green Mile.” King’s “Storm of the Century” is a creepy retelling of Jesus’ eerie encounter with the demon called “Legion” in the  Gospel of Mark’s fifth chapter. And King’s epic apocalyptic novel, “The Stand,” reads like a contemporary retelling of the Book of Revelation, with a little Exodus thrown in, Zahl says.

Zahl’s claim about King's faith may sound ludicrous. King, who just released his latest novel, “The Wind Through the Keyhole,” has written at least 50 horror novels such as “Carrie” and “Misery.”

Yet there is an actual body of literature devoted to King’s religious sensibility. Several pastors and authors say King displays a sophisticated grasp of theology in his books, and his stories are stuffed with biblical references and story lines taken straight from the Bible.

“If God brought lawsuits, Stephen King would face a charge of plagiarism,” says J.M. Rawbone, an English horror novelist who has written an essay about the Christian themes in “The Stand.”

King, whose publicist did not answer a request for an interview, has talked about his faith before. He describes himself as a Christian on his website and elsewhere has said he was raised as a “hard-nosed” Methodist taught to believe in the Antichrist.

Some of his literary influences are Christian authors. In one interview, King said he was shaped by C.S. Lewis, author of “The Chronicles of Narnia,” and J.R.R. Tolkien, author of “The Lord of the Rings.” Both Lewis and Tolkien were devout Christians who layered their fiction with Christian themes.

“I’ve always tried to contrast that bright, white light of real goodness or Godliness against evil,” he said in a 1988 interview. “I’m not a proselytizer, and I hate organized religion. I think it’s one of the roots of real evil that’s in the world. If you really unmask Satan, you’ll probably find that he’s wearing a turnaround collar.”

The best way, though, to understand King’s faith is not through his words, but through his stories. There are at least three biblical themes that run through them.

A child shall lead them

Every horror writer seems to write a vampire story eventually, and King is no exception. “Salem’s Lot” is one of King’s most popular novels. It depicts a vampire’s attempt to colonize a modern-day New England town.

Traditional vampire stories are loaded with Christian symbolism, but King inserts another biblical theme into “Salem’s Lot” that would reoccur in many of his books.

It comes in a scene showing a standoff between a priest and vampire. Father Callahan tries to protect a teenage boy with him by brandishing a cross. The vampire dares the priest to toss the cross away and face him on faith alone.

Father Callahan hesitates, his faith long diluted by alcohol and skepticism. The vampire wrenches the cross from the priest’s hands, while the boy escapes and becomes one of the vampire’s most formidable enemies.

When the Rev. David Squyres read this passage from “Salem’s Lot,” one of Jesus’ most popular sayings flashed before him: “… Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.”

In the moral universe of King, children get God better than the adults, Squyres says.

“The vampire humiliates the priest because the priest doesn’t have real faith, but the kid has real faith,” says Squyres, pastor of the Palms Baptist Church near Palm Springs, California.

“The priest represents the Pharisees. They believe in relics. But the children, and the teenager, have a simple faith. They don’t put their trust in institutions. They trust in the Lord,” says Squyres, who has written about King’s Christian sensibility at his website, "talkstephenking."

Many of King’s most popular novels are filled with young heroines driven by faith. It’s a reflection of a famous passage from the Book of Isaiah in the Old Testament: “And a little child shall lead them.”

In “The Talisman” and “It,” King features adolescent heroes who risk their lives battling evil, according to Marylaine Block, who wrote about King’s religious sensibility in an essay called "Something Wicked This Way Comes."

“In both novels, the adults are incapable of understanding the evil that is about to envelop and destroy their world. They see the signs, but choose not to understand them. Only the children know what is happening, and know that it is up to them to save the people they care about,” she wrote.

God can be cruel

King’s most explicit Christian novel is “Desperation,” which features another adolescent hero driven by faith. The boy, David, is converted by a miracle and prays to God for help. King depicts his faith without irony and with reverence.

“Desperation,” though, contains an unusual description of God that reveals some heavy theology from King, several pastors say. During the bloody climax of the story, a character tells the boy that God is “cruel.”

That line caught the attention of Zahl, the Episcopal priest. It speaks to what he calls “the answerable sovereignty of God.”

Zahl says King is depicting a side of God that’s woven into the Bible. It is not the God whose eye is on the sparrow, but the Holy Other, incomprehensible, the one who allowed Job to suffer.

It’s the same side of God that the narrator in “The Green Mile” reflects on when he reminisces about the death of the innocent John Coffey, the Christ-like figure who never hurt anyone, but perished while a villainous guard lived on.

Zahl points to this passage from ”The Green Mile”:

“Yet this same God sacrificed John Coffey, who tried only to do good in his blind way, as savagely as an Old Testament prophet ever sacrificed a defenseless lamb. ...  If it happens, God lets it happen, and when we say, ‘I don’t understand,’ God replies, ‘I don’t care.’ ”

Zahl says King can say things about God in books that pastors can’t say in the pulpit. In King’s novels, people often suffer while doing good.

“Americans generally want to hear that everything is really terrific all the time,” Zahl says. “Americans want to control and manage everything, and they’re eager for anything that pumps them up. When you preach a message from the Bible that life is much more difficult, and there’s a huge amount of suffering, those messages don’t always go down well.”

'God chose the weak things'

As a teenager, King used to collect scrapbooks filled with newspaper clippings detailing the crimes of serial killers, says Stanley Wiater, co-author of “The Complete Stephen King Universe: A Guide to the Worlds of Stephen King.”

King's mother grew so concerned that one day she asked him why he kept the scrapbook.

Wiater says King answered with: “I think there’s evil out there. I want to know what it is, so when it comes, I can recognize it and get out of the way.”

In King’s books, characters can’t avoid evil. They have to confront it, but they often don’t fit the conventional definition of heroes.

“The Stand,” another explicitly Christian novel, illustrates this pattern. A plague has wiped out mankind, and a group of unarmed survivors are dispatched via a vision from God to confront a satanic figure called the Darkman.

The group seems to have no chance. One is an elderly, genial professor; another a deaf mute, and a third figure is a genial man with the mental capacity of a child. Against them: the Darkman’s ruthless army, which literally crucified its foes.

The makeup of the group underscores another popular religious theme in King’s work that’s reflected in this line from the apostle Paul in the first Book of Corinthians: “God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.”

Zahl, the Episcopal priest, says so many heroes in King’s books are broken people: physically frail, alcoholic, disabled and lonely. Even the evil people are rendered with compassion.

“King understands grace at a deep level,” says Zahl, author of  "Grace in Practice." “He typically concentrates on the marginalized and the outsiders who ultimately carry the day. God often does his work where people are the most messed up.”

King may have converted Zahl, but the priest and others admit there’s a risk invoking the horror novelist in the pulpit.

When Zahl mentions King in church, he says many listeners think first of books they want to keep away from teenagers.

Still, there are secret converts.

“Half of the other people in the congregation have read Stephen King, though they may not want to shout it out to the world,” he says. “They know what I’m talking about. They come up later and they say I’m really thrilled that you know about him.”

The doubters shouldn’t be surprised that King’s stories contain religious themes, says Rawbone, the English horror novelist and author of "Bunker."

The Bible is filled with terror: demons, ghosts, floods wiping out mankind and the rising of the dead.

“Good horror examines the struggle between good and evil,” he says. “The Bible is the history of that struggle.

“The Bible is in many ways the ultimate horror novel.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Bible • Books • Celebrity • Christianity • Jesus • Movies

soundoff (1,461 Responses)
  1. sonia

    i do not know what the author is trying to do but i know from personal experience that stephen king's books have a following of demons behind them. my daughter loved reading his books and had them in her room. after she did this she realized that every night something would wake her up and while sleepy force her out of the room and into our living room. i could not take it anymore and told her one night to sleep in my room and i will sleep in hers. yes, the evil showed up, (i can see demons and angels). it looked like a black and green eagle. i commanded it in Jesus' name to leave her room, i also took every stephen king's book and destroyed them. i prayed for her and over the room. since that night she has NEVER had a problem sleeping or being force out of her bed. i told her not to ever bring his books into our house as i am pretty sure they have been blessed by satan. i know what i experience and i know evil is real

    December 27, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
  2. sonia

    i do not know what the author is trying to do but i know from personal experience that stephen king's books have a following od demons behind them. my daughter loved reading his books and had them in her room. after she did this she realized that every night something would wake her up and while sleepy force her out of the room and into our living room. i could not take it anymore and told her one night to sleep in my room and i will sleep in hers. yest the evil showed up, (i can see demons and angels). it looked like a black and green eagle. i commanded it in Jesus' name to leave her room, i also took every stephen king's book and destroyed them. i prayed for her and over the room. since that night she has NEVER had a problem sleeping or being force out of her bed. i told her not to every bring his books into our house as i am pretty sure they have been blessed by satan. i know what i experience and i know evil is real

    December 27, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
  3. yeshuabenyhvh

    Reblogged this on usmcvball and commented:
    Some "off-topic" stuff, for those readers who want to know more about why I say what I say... CM

    May 17, 2013 at 3:34 pm |
  4. King Power – Retina Ready Multi-Purpose Theme(Themeforest)

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  5. Science

    Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

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    The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species

    Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.

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    Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130418104324.htm

    And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

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    the wrong path is Adam and Eve !

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    Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.

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    Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.

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    Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute

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    Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...

    Good stuff !

    The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !

    Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

    Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

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    For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !

    Where do morals come from?

    By Kelly Murray, CNN

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    Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.

    Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’

    Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
    bears his name as the “God particle.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/08/atheist-prof-peter-higgs-stop-calling-higgs-bosen-the-god-particle/

    Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
    Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/10/28/pope-praises-science-but-insists-god-created-world/

    Science

    Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
    By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/17/heaven-is-a-fairy-story-scientist-stephen-hawking-says/

    April 7th, 2012

    08:32 PM ET

    The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/07/the-jesus-debate-man-vs-myth/comment-page-137/#comment-2281915

    Make sure to read comments

    April 18, 2013 at 3:10 pm | Report abuse |

    Breaking News

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    NASA: Mars could have supported life

    Star Dust we are

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWdU_px9ApE&w=640&h=390]

    Holy Hallucinations 35

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTCRdC8Dlo&w=640&h=390]

    The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !

    From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life

    http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIE2aOriginoflife.shtml

    Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.

    Human Evolution

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    BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUliLKSJ4bQ&w=640&h=390]

    BACKFILL on E =mc2.....

    Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'

    By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

    Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.

    “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/category/culture-science/

    May 4, 2013 at 6:47 am | Report abuse |

    Cheech & Chong's History of 420

    http://www.funnyordie.com/embed/3b1508d1f0Cheech & Chong's History of 420 from CheechAndChong http://www.facebook.com/plugins/like.php?app_id=138711277798&href=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.funnyordie.com%2Fvideos%2F3b1508d1f0%2Fcheech-chong-s-history-of-420&send=false&layout=button_count&width=150&show_faces=false&action=like&height=21

    All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................

    The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.

    Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle

    Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130424132705.htm

    Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.

    Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.

    http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/intelligentdesigncase/dovertrialtranscripts.htm

    Education works for children

    Earth From Space

    Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS

    Program Description

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    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/space/earth-from-space.html

    February 16, 2013 at 7:18 am | Report abuse |

    Peace

    May 5, 2013 at 9:10 am |
  6. John Ghost

    Some of the Stephen King´s Fans are starting to enjoy Spanish Writer Gabri Ródenas´NOAH´S BUNKER (EL BÚNKER DE NOÉ) http://tinyurl.com/ckg23gs

    July 24, 2012 at 5:12 am |
  7. Nook Faith Books

    Terrific! Thanks for posting this.

    July 11, 2012 at 9:42 am |
  8. Fadhli

    the world is full of suffering. It is also full of the oecnvomirg of it so Hope is important because it can make the present moment less difficult to bear. If we believe that tomorrow will be better, we can bear a hardship today.” Hope keeps life alive.

    June 29, 2012 at 12:55 am |
  9. Natalia

    Hello Erin,I am a friend of Leah Korona and she forawrded this to me. I hope you do not mind. I am a huge fan of yours and I am trying to start a photography business of my own. I would love the opportunity to learn from and help you if I can get a sitter for my kids. I can let you know by the end of today. Let me know if you are interested. Thanks,Jen

    June 26, 2012 at 9:20 am |
  10. Freedom

    King focuses on the demonic, capitalizing on the ungodly. His writings are SATURATED in it. Why would any Christian (person who loves God and wants to grow closer and closer to Him) want to spend time in the midst of Satan? A person becomes like what he/she focuses on. When a person praises God (Christians are instructed to "pray without ceasing" 1 Thes 1:17), he has no time to spend on Satan. King spends hour after hour writing about extremely evil scenarios. The Bible says, "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. What you have learned and received and heard and seen in me—practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you" Phil 4:8,9 and "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies" John 8:44, emphasis mine. There is no truth in the lies of the deceiver- so why is Stephen King looking at him so much? Even if King does not make demonic spirits the hero in the last few minutes of his works, the entirety of his novels and movies are filthy and filled with sin. How, then, can a practicing Christian (in the article King is called a Christian) who is thus supposed to "pray without ceasing" receive guidance from God to write or read such material? It doesn't make logical sense to me.

    June 20, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • survivorcrazymom

      This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard! Have you ever read anything by this brillant man????? Stephen Kings talent IS "God Given" until you have read something by him, keep your stupid mouth shut.

      “The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.”
      ― Stephen King, The Stand

      June 21, 2012 at 9:32 am |
  11. Cq

    “The beauty of religious mania is that it has the power to explain everything. Once God (or Satan) is accepted as the first cause of everything which happens in the mortal world, nothing is left to chance...logic can be happily tossed out the window.”
    ― Stephen King, The Stand

    June 13, 2012 at 8:08 am |
  12. genxaccord

    The author of the article has either never read, or just not fully understood, the dominant themes running through King's "Dark Tower" series. Anyone familiar with those books is familiar with the term "Ka," whose usage at first may be understood as meaning "fate" or "destiny." In his latest installment in the series, "The Wind Through the Keyhole," a character says "Because Ka is a wheel and it is always turning." "Ka" and a wheel..."Karma" and the Dharmacakra (the Dharma wheel of Buddhism). "Ka"...Mid worldese for "Karma." This theme of Karma and the turning Dharma wheel are most prominently played out in the very way the Dark Tower series ends in the final novel.(And while Jesus is mentioned in the Dark Tower series, he is referred to as the "Man Jesus." Odd Midworld dialect or personal statement by King?) So while it is probably correct to say that King has a good working knowledge of the Bible, it is obvious from reading the "Dark Tower" series and his other works that he has some passing knowledge of Buddhism, Hinduism and Native American spiritualism. While I would agree, and have often thought myself, that "The Stand" is King's own personal version of the Book of Revelation, his themes are not exclusively Christian, especially in light of the Buddhist themes that I believe are prominent in "The Dark Tower" series.

    June 12, 2012 at 1:45 pm |
  13. Beck

    The pastor thinks he's doing well in using King to draw parallelisms, and ultimately attention, to Christianity, but the end result is the opposite of what he intends. As it says in Phillipians, "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." There is enough evil in the world today, every single day - death, loss, tragedy - don't we have enough of it already?

    June 12, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • Cq

      What is the difference between King's work and that of C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien, both often used as analogies for Christianity? If magic, witches and monsters are a no no for Christians then they really shouldn't be reading about Narnia or Middle Earth, right?

      June 12, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
  14. tugar

    What they fail to realize is that Stephen King IS God.

    June 11, 2012 at 9:20 am |
  15. lyndieb

    I agree with all the examples mentioned in the article. Needful Things taught me how strong the desire for things can control our lives

    June 10, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • Cq

      Wanting the Bible to be literally true, wanting to go to heaven after we die, and wanting forgiveness for everything wrong that we've ever done are also strong desires. Many Christians willingly allow these things to control their lives and, like the townsfolk in Needful Things, they are often oblivious to the hurt they sometimes cause others because of their seeking to fulfill needs.

      June 12, 2012 at 11:12 am |
  16. fred

    Cq
    Yeah, kinda…………..By dumb I meant that man initially did not know good and evil (in the Garden before the fall). In “Paradise” evil has been separated out so that just the things of God remain and we are like Christ and “in Christ”. To the extent Christ knows good and evil we are part of that knowledge. Look close at the examples of Christ and the temptations that captured Eve are not an issue for Christ. Something has changed so that our new beings are not drawn away from God and towards that former knowledge of good and evil. Although not biblical my guess is that by walking through the world we live in we realize that nothing is greater than to love God and be loved by God to the extent we are one.
    This is why marriage is often cited in the Bible as an example of relationship between man and God. The bride and bridegroom examples, wedding feast, undefiled marriage bed, what God has joined together is not parted, the spouses body belongs to the other spouse, leave mother and father to become one, order God/man/women all united and equal in Gods eyes. Certainly there is no marriage in “Paradise” as we have on earth but the model is clear.

    June 8, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Cq

      "By dumb I meant that man initially did not know good and evil (in the Garden before the fall)."
      You mean, we were without morals, like other animals, in the beginning and then we achieved higher intelligence (not part of God's plan for us BTW). If teaching evolution will lead to people acting like animals then that should be a good thing, right? We'd be like we were before being kicked out of the Garden, after all.

      June 12, 2012 at 10:33 am |
  17. thecollegeadmissionsguru

    I live in Maine, I know King, he is NOT writing his books to be some analogy for Christians. He writes books, period!

    June 7, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
  18. fred

    Hawaii Guest
    “even if it was proven on both those things, I still wouldn't worship your god because the god you espouse is an immoral, controlling, vain piece of sh.it.”
    =>so you understand why God does not bother to show you the proof you demand as he refused the non believers 2,000 years ago (Sanhedrin demand proof but none is given but the sign of Jonah). Clearly if you look again you can see the contrast between the two types of people in this world (luke 23:39-43). Based on your statement you have confirmed that God is very just as he would never force you to worship or worse yet spend eternity in the presence of God (that would be hell yes?). You have also demonstrated how well Gods plan of making a way for souls inclined towards God actually works in real time.

    June 7, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @fred

      Yea because it's a choice between your god and no god. Don't be so damn conceited, there are thousands of denominations of christianity alone, then there's all the other religions out there, and there's no reason to think that you're any more correct than they are. I've merely demonstrated that you are a blind fool who will constantly twist and spin everything so it can fit in your little bubble of a world. You might want to try getting your head out of your ass fred, and also stop cherry picking my posts, because that just shows your wholly dishonest as well.

      June 7, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I don't know why I'm even bothering with you fred. You consistently show yourself to be dishonest, and completely void of any logical sense. I guess I was merely hoping that you could at least make some sense in some aspect, but that's just to much to ask. You're blind fred, blind from that immoral book you put so much stock in. You've lost your humanity, your empathy, and your humility as well.

      June 7, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • fred

      HawaiiGuest
      “Yea because it's a choice between your god and no god.”
      =>The Chosen Ones went to a great deal of trouble and nitpicky details to make sure they did not chose the wrong god…………….How did they do on that one? Jesus said I have sheep in other folds and my sheep know my voice. This gives me the sense that God is bigger than we give credit for and more than capable of getting the attention of those who are called.

      “there's no reason to think that you're any more correct than they are.”
      =>no it was by miracle that a Bible ended up in my hand rather than a Quran or the Dawkins bible etc. It was a personal experience in the presence of God that saved me.
      I can eliminate Islam as a candidate because Mohamed met with Rabbi and Christian before pulling together the vision 600 years after Christ. Christ was the vision and gave the vision with full knowledge of scripture. The footprints of Jewish law and writings are clear. Islam, Catholicism and Joseph Smith etc all pulled from the source and added stuff.
      If I am in Christ which allows me to follow Christ in all ways then none of the other beliefs can find fault in what I have done with my life. None of their gods etc. would have cause to find any wrong.

      June 7, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @fred

      Again your just cherry picking my posts. I don't know what else I expect you cherry pick the bible often enough.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HG, ferdy's an imbecile. Don't fret. His sort are irrelevant.

      June 7, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • fred

      Hawaii Guest
      Cherry pick? Good gosh the theme of the Bible is God loves His creation and reveals His plan for all to enter Paradise with eternal love, joy and happiness. Yet, you somehow find all the verses where God warns those who choose hell and damnation and conclude God is immoral. Would you like some whipped cream with your cherries?

      June 7, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • fred

      Tom Tom
      My sort exhibits the core attribute for presidential candidates. We can discuss irrelevant when the first non believer gets into the White House. Then you become relevant when they need to drum up support.

      June 7, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @fred

      Yes, you cherry pick the bible. You profess that god is this all loving being, yet ignore the contradictions constantly, you also cherry pick what I post with what you think you can rationalize away easily with your asinine logical fallacies.

      June 7, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • fred

      Hawaii Guest
      The Bible tells it like it is both good and evil because that is what is being explained. We agreed that in the beginning God said it was very good and in the end God prepares Pradise any that want eternal unity with God. Now, if that was all the Bible ever talked about it would be a lie because we see evil all around.
      The Bible explains evil being present before man was aware of it. The Bible explains that evil in the end will be separated from good for eternity. Instead of man being fat dumb and happy in the Garden man is now fat smart and happy for eternity. Evil is separated for eternity with full knowledge of why evil was separated. In short the Bible shows man evolving from a physical fleshy being made from the dust of the earth to a spiritual being that exists for eternity.
      Is that a fair outline of the Bible?

      June 8, 2012 at 12:13 am |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @fred

      Nope, it's not.

      June 8, 2012 at 5:44 am |
    • Cq

      fred
      So, we use to be dumb, but we were going to live forever in the garden. Then we got smart, got kicked out of the garden and couldn't live forever anymore. So, Jesus comes along, and asks us to become dumb again in order to live forever once more?!? Is that your summary of God's salvation?

      June 8, 2012 at 8:35 am |
    • fred

      fred

      Cq
      Yeah, kinda…………..By dumb I meant that man initially did not know good and evil (in the Garden before the fall). In “Paradise” evil has been separated out so that just the things of God remain and we are like Christ and “in Christ”. To the extent Christ knows good and evil we are part of that knowledge. Look close at the examples of Christ and the temptations that captured Eve are not an issue for Christ. Something has changed so that our new beings are not drawn away from God and towards that former knowledge of good and evil. Although not biblical my guess is that by walking through the world we live in we realize that nothing is greater than to love God and be loved by God to the extent we are one.
      This is why marriage is often cited in the Bible as an example of relationship between man and God. The bride and bridegroom examples, wedding feast, undefiled marriage bed, what God has joined together is not parted, the spouses body belongs to the other spouse, leave mother and father to become one, order God/man/women all united and equal in Gods eyes. Certainly there is no marriage in “Paradise” as we have on earth but the model is clear.

      June 8, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.