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Deliberations continue in Catholic child abuse cover-up case
Catholic Monsignor William Lynn faces accusations that he failed to keep priests accused of sexual abuse away from minors.
June 4th, 2012
01:15 AM ET

Deliberations continue in Catholic child abuse cover-up case

By Sarah Hoye, CNN

Philadelphia (CNN) – Deliberations resume Monday in Philadelphia in the landmark trial of Monsignor William Lynn, the highest-ranking cleric charged with endangering children by allegedly helping cover up sexual abuse.

Lynn, a defendant with another Philadelphia priest, is accused of knowingly allowing dangerous priests to continue in the ministry in roles in which they had access to children.

Also on trial is the Rev. James Brennan, who is accused of the attempted rape of a 14-year-old. Both Brennan and Lynn have pleaded not guilty.

Closing arguments in the case concluded Thursday and jurors began their deliberations Friday.

FULL STORY

- CNN's Laura Koran

Filed under: Catholic Church • Courts • Pennsylvania • Sex abuse

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soundoff (138 Responses)
  1. fernace

    Well, this is just about....Wrong! The RCC is currently holding a very public denouncement of American "radical feminist nuns," who are "guilty" of trying to bring the church into the 21st century regarding human s.e.xuality, yet they are still engaging in cover-up's, obstruction & subterfuge regarding the Crimes of pederast priests!? I'm reading the bible right now & according to scripture, the Catholic hierarchy is in deep doodoo w/God right now! They should close up shop for 6 months, go into seclusion in a monastery, read the New Testament over & over, pray & meditate until they Get It! Also I recomend a biography of Mother Theresa, as a "companion read"! When they return to the Vatican, 1st item to accomplish– feed the hungry, clothe the poor & educate children in the poverty ridden nations that so fiercly support the RCC! Just a suggestion!!

    June 6, 2012 at 11:21 am |
  2. Kindness

    For you.
    A thought to consider without a typical ego response

    Accept Jesus christ as your lord and saviour. You never know how soon is too late. Transcend the worldly illusion of enslavement.
    The world denounces truth....

    Accepting Jesus Christ (for me) resulted in something like seeng a new colour. You will see it .....but will not be able to clearly explain it to anyone else..... Its meant to be that way to transend any selfism within you.

    Also... much the world arranges "surrounding dark matter into something to be debated" in such a way that protects/inflates the ego.

    The key is be present and transcend our own desire to physically see evidence. We don't know anyways by defending our own perception of dark matter.

    Currently.... most of us are constructing our own path that suits our sin lifestyle. Were all sinners. Knowing that we are is often an issue. But both christians and non are sinners.

    We don't like to Let go and let god. We want control to some degree. This is what Jesus asks us to do. "Let go and let god".
    It's the hardest thing to do... but is done by letting the truth of scripture lead you (redemptive revelation)... as I said .

    Try reading corinthians and see if it makes sense to you. Try it without a pre conceived notion of it being a fairy tale.
    See the truth...
    do we do what it says in todays society... is it relevant... so many have not recently read and only hinge their philosophy on what they have heard from som other person...which may have been full of arogance pride or vanity..

    Look closely at the economy ponzi, look at how society idolizes Lust , greed , envy, sloth, pride of life, desire for knowledge, desire for power, desire for revencge,gluttony with food etc .

    Trancsend the temporal world.

    Just think if you can find any truth you can take with you ....in any of these things. When you die your riches go to someone who will spend away your life..... You will be forgotten.... history will repeat iteslf.... the greatest minds knowledge fade or are eventually plagerzed..... your good deeds will be forgotten and only give you a fleeting temporary reward . your learned teachings are forgotten or mutated..... your gold is transfered back to the rullers that rule you through deception. Your grave will grow over . This is truth .

    Trancsend your egoism and free yourself from this dominion of satan. Understand you are a sinner and part of the collective problem of this worldly matrix... Repent.... Repent means knowing

    Evidence follows faith. Faith does not follow evidence..... Faith above reason in Jesus Christ.

    Faith comes by Reading or Hearing the word of god from the bible . Ask Jesus in faith for dicernment and start reading the new testament... You will be shocked when you lay down your preconceived notions and ....see and hear truth ... see how christ sets an example ... feel the truth....

    Read Ecclesiastes. Read corinthians.

    You cant trancend your own egoism by adapting a world philosophy to suit your needs. Seek the truth in Christ.

    Sell all your cleverness and purchase true bewilderment. You don't get what you want ....you get what you are in christ.

    I promise this has been the truth for me. In Jesus christ .

    Think of what you really have to lose. ...your ego?

    Break the Matrix of illusion that holds your senses captive.

    once you do . you too will have the wisdom of God that comes only through the Holy Spirit. Saved By grace through Faith. Just like seeing a new colour.... can't explain it to a transient caught in the matrix of worldly deception.
    You will also see how the world suppresses this information and distorts it

    You're all smart people . I tell the truth. Its hard to think out of the box when earthly thinking is the box.
    I'ts a personal free experience you can do it free anytime . Don't wait till you are about to die.. START PUTTING YOUR TREASURES WHERE THEY REALLY MATTER >
    Its awsome .

    June 5, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • Get it right

      Smart people? Fact is, the more intelligent one is, the less likely they will believe. You are better off pet!tioning third world countries with your posts.

      June 5, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Got it wrong, Jesus wrote about the non-believers throughout the Bible:

      Fool (66)
      Foolish (52)
      Foolishly (12)
      Foolishness (20)
      Fools (42)
      Fool's (7)

      I'll post one of my favorites about the non-believers of the world.

      The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, [there is] none that doeth good.

      Psalms 14:1

      Amen.

      June 5, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Kindness, and HeavenScent too, fuck off!

      June 6, 2012 at 1:52 am |
  3. Get it right

    http://www.snapnetwork.org/nyc_s_cardinal_dolan_paid_pedophile_priests_to_leave

    June 4, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
    • Get it right

      Imagine that!!!!!

      June 4, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Get it right

      Send the pedos into the community, now ALL children were placed at risk.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
  4. Get it right

    time to make the catholic church pay for its crimes against humanity, small children no less. What a bunch of sick and putrid cowards this organization is. And the catholics donate money which used to help the bishops lobby to stop laws that would expose the truth, victims denied now by their own fellow catholics.

    June 4, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • Igor

      i love my dad just like anybody does wuiohtt him i and we are not here up to this moment of our life despite the bad times yet its only few so to speak because nobodys perfect as they say but let us cherish the the moment from the time of conception til now,the sacrifices,the support,the care and more importantly the love that he gave us although it doesn't show sometime but its always there most of the time,what can i give my ama as i call him this fathers day is also the LOVE that he has shown me much more than what he has gave me now that i can feel how to be a father not daddy,dad,ama,pa coz now i know the meaning of a FATHER just what he is during our childhood coz i myself is a dad of 3 kids and many ways more to go ahead of me, thanks to AMA and happy fathers day to all.

      October 9, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
  5. kaligaclark

    How could ANYONE give money to an organization that protects pedophiles? Much less take kids where there could be pedophiles! I will NEVER understand why people are not outraged and demanding this organization change it's ways or close it's doors! That is EXACTLY what they would do to any other organization that protects pedophiles! Don't even bother saying the church did not protect them. They KNEW children were being molested and instead of calling the cops they moved them to another church! I am convinced that the ONLY reason the church is anti-choice is so priest will have a new bunch of kids to play with!!!

    June 4, 2012 at 5:06 pm |
    • Get it right

      And instead of helping the child, they threatened the child from telling. The child had to fend for themselves. Many children are mentally ill today and others committed suicide due to the abuses. And before ANYONE makes the sick and disgusting comments that others abused too, ask them how the catholic church set the example to help the victims. I'll tell you how, they lobby to stop laws that would expose the truth. Yet the truth is the greatest healer. Victims denied again.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
  6. Bootyfunk

    there is no organization on earth that openly protects child molesters over the child that was victimized.

    June 4, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      *there is no OTHER organization on earth...

      June 4, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
  7. catholic engineer

    The great Russian author, Fyodor Dostoevsky, though his character Prince Myskin in The Idiot, made this observation; " The essence of religious feeling does not come under any sort of reasoning or atheism, and has nothing to do with crimes or misdemeanors. There is something else here, and there will always be something else – something else the atheists will forever slur over; they will always be talking about something else."

    June 4, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Podpol'enye

      It's spelled "Myshkin."

      I love Dostoyevsky, and have read all of his major novels, but he does fall for a couple of the stereotypes that people here go for as well. First of all, his atheists are not atheists – they are Russian Nihilist Socialists who, they still believe in God – Ivan Karamazov and Verkhovensky all think about God as an active entity. Second, they are always Socialist radicals of one form or another, out to destroy the government. As such, they are always criminal in his novels. Atheists who live their lives decently, volunteering at charities and acting kindly and thoughtfully, are totally absent in his work – he cannot conceive of them. Yet that is the reality for most of us atheists.

      Dostoyevsky saw that the old Imperial order was in failure, and being religious, feared the rise of Socialism . . . for the wrong reasons. He was championing Slavophile Orthodox mysticism, and he hated and feared Western versions of Christianity. If you know anything about the Russian Orthodox Church, giving them power would never have made Russia a better place, especially not in Dostoyevsky's later life.

      Dostoyevsky would have despised current American religious beliefs, just as Alexandr Solzhenitsyn did. Tolstoy would have also.

      Be careful quoting people like that, because those of us who actually know the works well recognize that you totally failed to understand Dostoyevsky, and just pulled the quote for some online website without any true understanding of what you are presenting.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Prince Myshkin is the embodiment of naive faith over reason.
      In the novel, he has little rational intelligence – emotion rules his psyche (hence the character was inst/itutionalized).
      When faced with a rational argument, he has an epileptic fit.
      The character illustrates that the emotion of pure faith is infufficient to deal with the va/garies of real life.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • catholic engineer

      @Podpol'enye I love Dostoevsky, too. I am now reading THe Idiot, not cutting and pasting. I have also read Crime and Punishment, and The Brothers Karamazov, and numerous shorter works such as The Eternal Husband. I have also read Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, including Ivan Denisovich, August 1914, and In the First Circle.
      Be sure to think before accusing one of cutting and pasting. At any rate, Fyodor was right about atheists. I never discussed religion with one and came away thinking an atheist knew what he was talking about.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • catholic engineer

      @Doc Vestibule
      If you think that "emotion rules his (Myshkin's) psyche", you should read Hitchens and Dawkins. Dawkins wrote "The Enemies of Reason" without realizing something: the greatest enemy of reason is emotion, and both these authors are completely governed by their anger. This eclipsed their reason.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • catholic engineer

      @Podpol'enye You probably are aware of how close Russia came to being defeated by the Nazis. Stalin knew that the patriotism of Russians could not be separated from its Orthodox Faith. That is why Stalin temporarily lifted his repression of that faith during those dark days. Stalin's move served to inspire the Russian spirit toward defeat of Hitler. Do your authorized histories ever mention this fact?

      June 4, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • HAL-9000

      @catholic

      Their is a language barrier between atheist and theist, particularly when it comes to discussing religion. It's not that we don't know what we are talking about, it's that atheist don't believe that religion has any legitimate claim to it's authority. It is very difficult for a theist to understand the position that god does not exist.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Podpol'enye

      You totally avoided every point I and Vestabule made. I'm not surprised. You are far more interested in playing with your phony stereotype than actually discussing the matter at hand with real atheists.

      What to know what Dostoyevsky and Solzhenitsyn thought of Catholicism? You won't like it . . .

      Oh, by the way, how come you are not attacking the Catholic Church for its reprehensible behavior in the abuse scandal, which is what the article is about. Dostoyevsky would have, fervently. Trying to change the subject, like you did by giving me your reading list and shunting your Vestabule comments of . . . Dawkings?

      June 4, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • LauraJT

      A closed mind is a terrible thing to cultivate.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • Get it right

      Well. Catholic eng.. "The Enemies of Reason", you remained shallow on that one. Religion causes undue emotions which taints their reasoning, the real depth. Religious people block themselves from seeing 'points made' that are logical, when those points might negate their beliefs. Yes, just as you did by stopping short and not reasoning through "The Enemies of Reason".

      June 4, 2012 at 11:03 pm |
  8. At death atheists believe

    Why do atheists troll religious articles? What do they got to prove? They don't help anybody by trolling one,making fun or attacking.They claim religion is dangerous,outdated and will destroy mankind.Yet they do nothing but resort to petty attacks on the internet?!

    For the "logical bunch" some sure believe in crazy delusions.

    June 4, 2012 at 8:26 am |
    • Mirosal

      wait wait wait ... you believe in, pray to, and bow down to magial super-natural all powerful all knowing all present beings (which have NEVER EVER been proven to exist in the slightest by any definition of that word 'exist') that either save you or condemn you in a "afterlife", and you call US delusional?

      June 4, 2012 at 8:30 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      you don't know the point or even the meaning of faith.You really can't make fun of something that you can't even grasp or understand

      June 4, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • Mirosal

      I understand that the supernatural does not exist. If it does, prove it. It's just that simple. As far as faith, why have faith in something that does not exist? That's a waste of energy, and a wasted life. I know all about your "god", and your 2000 year old book filled with 3000 year old stories. You'll find that the vast majority of Atheists are the product of a religious education, myself included. What does THAT tell you?

      June 4, 2012 at 8:37 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      And what if I can't? Oh wait nevermind,you still will live in denial no one can.I can base this off of what you post.That is not a lie.

      And you wonder why faith is not working for you? YOU wont get off your lazy butt and do it yourself.You order people around to do that for you.How selfish and doesn't that go against what logic and reason is all about?!

      June 4, 2012 at 8:41 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      Oh but most got that education as a child.A child.

      Ponder that before you even post to see of you really understand why I said that

      June 4, 2012 at 8:42 am |
    • Mirosal

      Logic and reason are the conerstones of Atheism. There's no logic in religion. And certainly no reason.Atheists love research. You see, we spend our time in books other than one written for sheep herders in an agraian society that no longer exists. Philosophy is all about questions that you may never find answers to. Religion is all about answers that may NEVER EVER be questioned. And if you do raise questions, you better watch out, because "god" doesn't like to be questioned and you'll get punished. Why is that?

      June 4, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • At death the religious are pwnd

      Pwnd every way possible. Mirosal has you nailed to the wall.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:06 am |
    • Jack

      If at death an athiest was on a morphine drip they may believe in lots of things. I knew a guy who swears the ICU had a Bird show.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • catholic engineer

      I posted this above but this seems like a good place also.

      The great Russian author, Fyodor Dostoevsky, though his character Prince Myskin in The Idiot, made this observation; " The essence of religious feeling does not come under any sort of reasoning or atheism, and has nothing to do with crimes or misdemeanors. There is something else here, and there will always be something else – something else the atheists will forever slur over; they will always be talking about something else."

      June 4, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      you can question it,nothing happens.That happens when the other person hates to lose power over you.Thats most likely the case every time.

      Go ahead question God faith etc.Nothing happens! I can't believe you are stupid enough to follow the lies of people..read what Jesus says about the issue of faith.You missed some Important information

      June 4, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • Which God?

      @death. Wrong. It is also said that there are no athiests in a foxhole. Wrong again. I've heard guys cry out for mom, wives, but the cry 'oh god' was just like saying 'oh fluck', or 'oh shyte.' was not for intervention , but a form of curse. A lot never asked a god for help. The use of the term 'oh god', is ingrained in our speach pattern, like saying 'god dammmn, or 'god flucking dammmmn. You aren't swearing, that is a false premise. Besides if it was, wouldn't your compassionate god forgive a wounded soldier? I bet not in your book.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • HAL-9000

      @At Death

      Only facing one
      Direction blinds you to all
      Other points of view

      June 4, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • Podpol'enye

      Actually, if you read the snake handler story, you will see that he did the opposite of "believing at death" – despite his doctrine that calling for medical assistance is a loss of faith, he called EMS after many hours of failed prayer. On his deathbed, he abandoned his faith and embraced Reason! Unfortunately, unlike religion, reason does not pretend to be able to cure everything, and it was far too late to save him.

      The example clearly shows that there are no theists in snakeholes.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • religion; a way to control the weak minded

      "I can't believe you are stupid enough to follow the lies of people..read what Jesus says about the issue of faith."

      LOL what a joke....you do realize that PEOPLE wrote that book right? So technically you are "stupid enough to follow the lies of people". Congrats, pot meet kettle.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      Who else would write the bible?! A goat? A horse?! A dog?!

      Of course it needed to be written by men! How dumb can you get?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Get it right

      an atheists death might very well be as follows,, "I stood on my own two feet in life without the need to lean on a religion, I led by my own truth and beliefs. Never did I allow myself to being deceived". Now we all know that 'good' comes from good people, not religions or their beliefs.

      And now for a religious person. "I hope that there is a god, I'm scared. What if I followed the wrong religion? What if I supported a religion that hid the worst crimes against humanity, without standing up for the children abused and instead finding excuses for the church? Maybe god will believe I had nothing to do with it, after all, they told me they were your favorite. What if my standing up for the church and god is an insult to the life and intelligence my god gave me? I hope there is a heaven. I hope if there is a god, he's not like the old testament and will destroy my soul."

      June 4, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • At death atheists believe

      there is none that does good,no not one

      Even the "good people" screw up and fail throughout their existence. A "good person" still lies cheats steals hates lusts etc.

      By their own truths? What truth? By their standards? What if their right is wrong?

      Those are NEVER QUESTIONED

      June 5, 2012 at 7:53 am |
    • derp

      "Who else would write the bible?! A goat? A horse?! A dog?!

      Of course it needed to be written by men! How dumb can you get?"

      Here I was thinking the bible was the infallible word of god. Turns out it was just the opinions of some hallucinating iron age desert nomads.

      Thanks for clearing that up for me.

      I guess god couldn't find a pen?

      June 5, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Get it right

      All good comes from good people, ends there. Yes, there are those who lie, however we find the largest lies and deceit coming from organizations who claim they are religious, Catholic church and crimes against children an excellent example. Therefore is has been proven, religion is NOT where one should go to learn about truth or achieving goodness.

      June 5, 2012 at 5:12 pm |
    • beall

      There are universal concepts of right and wrong.It is very challenging to believe someone can live their life because they believe in the concept of the ideals of the ten commandments even if they don't believe they were divinely inspired.It is even more challenging to believe someone would choose to honor these ideals even without the fear of punishment or reward after death.And I deeply believe that the God of all Religions would value the nonbeliever who adheres to these ideals steadfastly as much if not more than one who fears retribution.Who would you regard higher-one who will not steal because it would cause pain to the victim and belittle themselves in their own eyes or one who fears only the punishment and believes they can be granted forgiveness-forgiveness can only be given after the fact.

      June 6, 2012 at 12:14 pm |
  9. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    June 4, 2012 at 4:29 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      action changes things; prayers wastes time.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:59 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      June 4, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Which God?

      Fluffer Nutter posts again. What an astounding lack of written intelligence and accuracy. Amazing. Shows he did make to at least the 4th grade. As bug Bunny used to say: 'hehehe, what a maroon," (meaning moron.)

      June 4, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Huebert

      You obviously didn't read the article about the snake handling pastor. The punchline of the article was prayer didn't work.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
  10. mickey1313

    Now it's time for this fat man to go to bed, but ill be back tomorrow.

    June 4, 2012 at 3:47 am |
  11. mickey1313

    Nii wicked acts like the genocide of the native American s, carried out with proclamation from the POPE. And the inquisition. And as far as bigotry, i mean the acts out have against ga ys and atheists. How about the crusades? If all of those things are gods will, that is no god i would ever worship.

    June 4, 2012 at 3:45 am |
    • Topher

      First, the pope is a Catholic thing, not a born-again Christian thing. The pope is just a man like the rest of us.
      Second, what acts against gays and atheists? They are offered the same gift as the rest of us ... if they repent of their sins and trust in Him, they can have forgiveness, too. Why WOULDN'T you worship a God that loving?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:54 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      lol, yeah, a real 'loving' god. fear, guilt and ignorance are the pillars of christianity.

      June 4, 2012 at 5:01 am |
    • sam stone

      sounds more like a goon demanding protection money than a loving god

      June 4, 2012 at 7:49 am |
    • Topher

      Booty

      I don't know how more loving you could ask Him to be. He died so you don't have to. God did that.

      Now as far as fear, yeah, we should be afraid of His wrath. We've continued to break His rules. Even now you shake your fist at Him. The wages of sin is death. There is Hell to pay. But despite our continuous sinning, He died for us.

      I do and should feel guilty. I broke the laws. And despite my efforts now, I still do. I deserve punishment.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:04 am |
    • Hyram S

      Topher, people like you should be removed from life as total failures that damage everyone around them.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • mickey1313

      Any all loving all powerful god that allows suffering and misery to plague good honest hard working people, is not a god i could or would worship

      June 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • Topher

      "Any all loving all powerful god that allows suffering and misery to plague good honest hard working people, is not a god i could or would worship"

      First, there are no "good people." We have all sinned.
      Second, God's creation was perfect. We sinned and continue to sin. We live in a fallen creation. The wages of sin is death. So when the fruit was eaten, death and suffering entered the world. It is our own fault. But the Bible promises the coming of a new heaven and new earth where there will be no more pain, suffering,disease or death.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • At death atheists believe

      Crusades God's will? Lol..that wasn't even it.Try power land and domination.

      You can't change the post,we can only learn from it.

      June 4, 2012 at 8:26 pm |
  12. Topher

    Anyone have any questions about Christianity? I'd be happy to discuss them with you ...

    June 4, 2012 at 2:49 am |
    • mickey1313

      Ive read the bible, my moms family is Roman catholic, her uncle was a priest, i find the faith art best disturbing, but mostly out right evil

      June 4, 2012 at 2:56 am |
    • Topher

      And your question is?

      June 4, 2012 at 2:59 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      a christian finds out his fiance is not a virgin. he wants to follow the bible's clear instructions to drag her to her father's doorstep, and then, with the rest of the townsfolk, throw stones at her until she is dead. he is afraid that if he starts to invite other people to help him kill his non-virgin bride, he may be arrested and taken to jail for attempted murder. God's instructions for dealing with loose women is clear, but modern secular laws say it's wrong to kill them.

      my question is, how does a christian trying to follow the bible get around modern laws when stoning women to death? also, since 99% of American women have had premarital s.ex and should be stoned to death, how do you find the 1% that aren't w.hores? lastly, once we kill all the w.hores, there will be a huge imbalance of men to women - do you think that will cause more g.ayness?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:15 am |
    • mickey1313

      I'll give ya a question. How can a religion that prechs love kindness and the like; a) condone all of the wicked acts carried out in its name. B) choose to use their faith as a weapon to for bigotry against those whom think differently. And please don't use the old " there not true christians" line, that ones is a cop out

      June 4, 2012 at 3:26 am |
    • Topher

      So the woman has sinned? That's unfortunate. But what is the man guilty of? Lying? Stealing? Blasphemy? We've all sinned and deserve death. But God sent His Son to die by taking the punishment we all deserve. Then He rose again defeating death so that with repentance and faith we can be forgiven by God. It isn't the man's job to stone anyone. It is his job to offer forgiveness like he has been forgiven (if he truly is a Christian.) No matter what that woman did against the man, he has to remember that what he did killed Jesus. I think it was Martin Luther who said, "We all have pockets full of nails." We're all guilty. So repent and trust in Him today.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:33 am |
    • Topher

      Mickey

      Wicked acts like what?
      The Bible says there are none who are good. "No, not one." We're all evil, and that includes Christians. You can't judge God based on what we hypocritical humans do.
      Not sure what you mean by "weapon of bigotry." Are you thinking of something particular?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Micky, It only takes one lie to love and practice to keep you outside the king-dom of God.

      Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorc-erers and se-xually im-moral and mur-derers and i-dolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

      Revelation 22:14-15

      Amen.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:39 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      you didn't answer my questions about stoning my non-virgin fiance to death, as the bible commands.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:58 am |
    • yaddi yaddi yaddi

      Who are God's parents?
      When was God born?
      What does God look like?
      How did God create the heavens and the earth in 6 days?
      Why does hate fa.gs?
      Why does God hate women?
      Why does God not want people to wear clothing made of two textiles?
      Did God tell Steve Jobs to invent the Apple computer? What was the exact conversation?
      Why does God want little children stoned for being disobedient if he loves all children?
      Why has God never come down to earth?
      What does heaven look like?
      What does Satan and hell look like?
      Why did God need to impregnate a child? Could he not have located an adult woman?
      Does God believe that incest is okay?
      Why did God allow his own child to be slaughtered?
      Why does God require animal sacrifice?

      June 4, 2012 at 6:22 am |
    • sam stone

      topher: undoubtedly, you know people who are not "saved". are they good people? are you content knowing that they will be tortured forever? are you happy with a god that would do that?

      June 4, 2012 at 7:51 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      atheists generally don't realize that OT law was literally a law for people in that time period.Meaning the OT literally did hint the end of the Jewish for early Christian followers after the death of Jesus.Yes Jews before Christ followed the laws although they were harsh.But no laws were set yet like we have now.They had no order. It's not that hard to realize.Whether or not you believe it's "Cherry picking" what to believe in the bible it's actually not.For one,Christ erased all that by dying on the cross for the sins of mankind this one does not need to follow early Jewish Law

      Atheists seriously start reading that bible again you know so much about..well really an Christian should too

      June 4, 2012 at 7:53 am |
    • sam stone

      Also, Topher, why do you feel that morality of an iron age (or older) agrarian middle eastern society has any relevance to 21st century man?

      June 4, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • yaddi yaddi yaddi

      If the NT is meant to replace the OT, why is the OT still published?

      June 4, 2012 at 7:58 am |
    • Mirosal

      ADAB ... your dead zombie guy did say that the rules of the OT STILL apply. So by not following that instruction, you're disobeying him, and therefore YOU are senteced to your "hell" as it were. Have a nice life (evil mad-scientist laugh)

      June 4, 2012 at 7:59 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      Do you even know what a zombie is? I really dont think you do

      June 4, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • yaddi yaddi yaddi

      A zombie is an animated corpse brought back to life. Jesus=Zombie

      June 4, 2012 at 8:16 am |
    • Mirosal

      zombie ... a member of the "living" dead. According to your own myth .. oops I mean doctrine .. your "savior" died and then rose from the dead... a textbook example of a zombie. Zombies do NOT exist in real life. They appear only in works of fiction. Therefore, your "savior" is a work of fiction.

      June 4, 2012 at 8:17 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      God says he knows the hearts and minds of people.We can choose heaven or hell HE can't for us.Dont you know anything about the bible or do you spit your crap for the fun of making one look dumb? 2nd Jesus came to save NOT start a brand new religion.In fact many authors hinted a savior..I mean do you seriously know anything about the bible?!

      You can spit your rational crap out all you want but the facts remain..you really don't know much about the bible at all.

      June 4, 2012 at 8:18 am |
    • Mirosal

      I think 12 years of indoctrination .. I mean religious schooling (1-12th grade) gives me a fairly good idea as to what's in that big book of fairy tales you seem to think is based on some kind of reality. Anything else?

      June 4, 2012 at 8:26 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      still doesn't count.See in those schools you were only taught what the school wanted.It takes a life time to understand to verses stories etc not 12 years of the watered down "truth" for kids and teens.

      I wouldn't trust any person who was forced to go to a "Christian school" and study the bible..To me that is very dangerous as your mind can be wrapped around a false teaching.Not to say you have but most who break away do so because of what they were taught never fully understanding the bible.

      So go ahead make yourself feel more educated because of that,truth is you don't know more than anyone about it

      June 4, 2012 at 8:31 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      You have to prove a god exists before pretending to know what a god said. There is enough Scientific evidence to say that no-one comes back from the dead and there is enough evidence to prove that the buybull was written by man. There is no evidence to support the claim that the buybull was divinely inspired.

      June 4, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      I can't as that's not the meaning of faith.

      We(believers) admit we can't yet YOU still think we can magically out of pure thin air prove what we believe but our own faith teaches us to HAVE faith?!

      Complain and moan all you want,you still won't get that evidence

      June 4, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      You're right, we can't prove either way, nor can you. The difference is that we say that given the lack of evidence we see no reason to accept it as being factual, you on the other hand use faith (belief without evidence). We take the honest stance, you take the easy lazy stance. We tend to keep an open mind and do not resort of the buybull for answers, instead we are continuously seeking answers as the evidence is set forth.
      "I contend we are both Atheists, I believe in one less god than you do, when you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you'll understand why I dismiss yours."
      You said in a post that we attack christians. We attack the belief and not always the person. I know some amazing good hearted christians who would not use their belief to judge anyone. We are constantly told by christians how we will see how judgement day but yet you have no more evidence that that day will come than the men who wrote the buybull 2000 years ago did. How is using the threat of eternal torture any different than us attacking the belief? If anything using that threat is immoral....wishing eternal torture on a person when you admit that you can't even be sure is pathetic.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:02 am |
    • !

      2 Thessalonians 2:7-12

      7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

      8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

      9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

      10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

      11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

      12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

      June 4, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Topher

      "you didn't answer my questions about stoning my non-virgin fiance to death, as the bible commands."

      Sorry. I thought I did. Christians don't murder. We want everyone to have a chance to repent and trust in the Savior so that they too can go to Heaven.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • Topher

      Hi, Sam
      Oh, I know people who aren't saved. We can start with my parents.
      As far as being good people ... by who's standard? By humanity's? Yes. By God's standard? No. The Bible says none are good. They're sinners, just like everyone else.
      It breaks my heart knowing they are not saved. But until they are dead they are given the same opportunity as everyone else to repent and trust in Him.
      Am I happy with a God that would do that? Yes. They've broken the laws. It is just. And that same God provided a way for them to go to Heaven despite their wickedness.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Topher

      "If the NT is meant to replace the OT, why is the OT still published?"

      Well, simply put, the OT is our history. It tells us how the world was created and what has happened between God and man (sin) and what God was doing for us and why we need a Savior.

      June 4, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Which God?

      @ Topher. I'd expect an intelligent rply, but you have already assumed that a god exists, especially a xtian gog. I must piont out to you, in your ignorance that the rcc is xtian as well an predated your many protestant subgroups and spin-offs, all saying they are xtians., worshiping the same god. On this basis alone you have no argument, nor crdibility to even expound on the sbjec, except to offer your 'testimony' or some words from a book that really has no relevance but for the fact that it was written long ago and that you have been taught to believe it. Tell me, what would you replace it with if you were to discover that the book was not true?

      June 4, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • Topher

      If you could prove just one thing in the Bible wasn't true I'd have to throw the whole thing away. But you can't. There's not one thing untrue found in it.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • At death atheists believe

      So you want to be forced to believe in God? You do realize that faith is kinda like a walk that changes both you and the people around you? If faith was so easy..well as they say "faith without work is dead".

      The walk(faith) changes you in the long run..you search God more,you are more willing etc.

      If it was that easy THERE WOULD BE NO POINT TO FAITH.

      Reread the bible again.You can't change what you hate or don't like.Sorry pal

      June 4, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      ADAB, you can't even quote accurately. It's "WORKS", not "work". There is a difference and I doubt you can even begin to comprehend what it is.

      June 4, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Primewonk

      Topher wrote, " If you could prove just one thing in the Bible wasn't true I'd have to throw the whole thing away. But you can't. There's not one thing untrue found in it."

      Bats are not birds.
      Rabbits don't chew their cud.
      Grasshoppers don't have 4 legs.
      We don't treat leprosy by using a live bird to sprinkle the blood od a dead bird around a house.
      The earth was not created before any stars.
      Birds did not appear before land animals.
      Plants did not appear before the sun.

      Need more?

      June 4, 2012 at 11:24 am |
    • Topher

      "Rabbits don't chew their cud."

      From Encyclopedia Britannica: "Some lagomorphs (rabbits and hares) are capable of re-ingesting moist and nutritionally rich fecal pellets, a practice considered comparable to cud-chewing in ruminants."

      June 4, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • A Frayed Knot

      Topher,

      My sympathy to your parents, who must deal with a delusional, judgmental religious zealot like you. It's better than having a drug addict or a felon, I suppose, but I'm sure it is difficult for them.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • Hyram S

      I, too, feel sorry for Topher's parents, but then again they gave birth to this stunted slime.
      They should be shot but will instead have to listen to their child sniveling and begging some hateful god for mercy while they slowly die with this babbling idiot in their family knowing that they should never have had children in the first place.

      June 4, 2012 at 12:21 pm |
    • Wrath of Anubus

      Topher Absolutely pwnd by truth. Truth throws out a list of bible inaccuracies and gopher finds one wrong. What about the other seven? Bible is fiction, full of lies and false hoods. That is a fact. It was written by men and has been reinterpreted thousands of times by men to their own benefit. That's a fact. Bible along with the Koran, torah are all junk.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • Topher

      Not at all ...

      The earth was not created before any stars. ... Prove it.
      Birds did not appear before land animals. ... Prove it.
      Plants did not appear before the sun. ... Prove it.

      You weren't there and science cannot prove it otherwise. You make the accusations, so it is up to you to prove the claims of the Bible are false. I just proved him wrong on one thing. Image if you are wrong about God.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • Wrath of Anubus

      All of those things have been proven to be true through science over and over. Your a fvcking retard if you truly believe what you just posted an there is no point in debating with you any longer, for you have shown how ignorant you truly are.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Topher

      That's fine as this hasn't been a debate. I'm sorry all you atheists have is name-calling. It's a sad existance. I know because I used to be one. If you have proof, go ahead and present it.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • sam stone

      "As far as being good people ... by who's standard? By humanity's? Yes. By God's standard? No."

      You have no authority to speak for god

      June 4, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Am I happy with a God that would do that? Yes. They've broken the laws. It is just. And that same God provided a way for them to go to Heaven despite their wickedness."

      The portrait you paint is not of a loving god, but that as a bully.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I'm sorry all you atheists have is name-calling. It's a sad existance"

      I am sorry that all you theists have is pompous claims to know the mind of god. It is a sad existence

      June 4, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Topher

      "You have no authority to speak for god"

      True. That's why we have His standards written about in the Bible.

      "The portrait you paint is not of a loving god, but that as a bully."

      What part of Him dying and taking the punishment we deserve is bully-like?

      "I am sorry that all you theists have is pompous claims to know the mind of god. It is a sad existence"

      We have His word. He wrote it, withstanding the test of time and every claim thrown at it by the unbelieving and believers who think we have the authority to change it.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Sorry. I thought I did. Christians don't murder"

      Really? How about Eric Rudolph?

      June 4, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Wrath of Anubus

      You have no proof that a "god" has ever written anything. The bible was written by men. Your delusional.

      June 4, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • sam stone

      "That's why we have His standards written about in the Bible."

      No, what you have written about in the bible are the supposed standards of Iron Age man.

      "What part of Him dying and taking the punishment we deserve is bully-like?"

      Well, if god is omniscient, he knew from the beginning who was going to be saved and who wasn't, no? For the rest of humanity, it is torture. Secondly, the whole assumption that we "deserve" this is bully like. How can anyone be guilty of anything before they are born?

      "We have His word. He wrote it, withstanding the test of time and every claim thrown at it by the unbelieving and believers who think we have the authority to change it."

      Really? He wrote it? So, sonny boy coming back in one generation.....how is that working out? Of course, man has the authority to change it, as it is man who wrote it

      June 4, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • sam stone

      "You weren't there and science cannot prove it otherwise."

      And you were there for the supposed resurrection?

      What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander

      June 4, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Well, if god is omniscient, he knew from the beginning who was going to be saved and who wasn't, no? For the rest of humanity, it is torture. Secondly, the whole assumption that we "deserve" this is bully like. How can anyone be guilty of anything before they are born?"

      Yes, he knew. But that doesn't change your free will. You have the option just like everyone else does. It's not too late for you. Repent and trust in Him today.

      "Of course, man has the authority to change it, as it is man who wrote it"

      No. God wrote it through men.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • Topher

      "And you were there for the supposed resurrection?
      What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander"

      No, I wasn't there. But I know someone who was.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • derp

      "The earth was not created before any stars. ... Prove it.
      Birds did not appear before land animals. ... Prove it.
      Plants did not appear before the sun. ... Prove it.

      You weren't there and science cannot prove it otherwise."

      Says the tard who believes in talking snakes, resurrections and virgin births.

      Do you believe Moses had a conversation with an enflamed shrubbery, or are you waiting for science to prove burning bushes can't talk?

      The entire basis of your faith rests on a reptile with the ability to verbalize and pass on a magic fruit.

      Snakes have no vocal cords, or any other means by which to create words; they cannot speak. Science has proven that.

      June 5, 2012 at 10:24 am |
    • derp

      "No, I wasn't there. But I know someone who was"

      Who have you personally met that witnessed the resurrection?

      June 5, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Monte

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      October 8, 2012 at 2:51 am |
  13. mickey1313

    The thing that really makes me mad is he says he had no power to remove the priest, um, call the f-ing police have the pedarast thrown in jail.

    June 4, 2012 at 2:00 am |
    • Topher

      Exactly. "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." Matt. 7:20

      June 4, 2012 at 2:16 am |
    • sam stone

      "Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." Matt. 7:20

      That could apply to any religion, no?

      June 4, 2012 at 7:56 am |
    • Topher

      "That could apply to any religion, no?"

      No, I don't think so. That quote is from Jesus. The "them" is a Christian who has received the forgiveness offered in Christ, the only way to the Father. When we have that forgiveness, we become changed people. That's what we mean by being "born again."

      June 4, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • Hyram S

      Actions speak louder than words. We can see Christians doing evil every day.
      Their evil shows us that their god does not exist.
      Their religion is insane and has no redeeming qualities, for the demonstrably false and contradictory bible they follow is full of sociopathic and insane babblings used to deny reality regardless of what is real.
      The "fruit" of Christianity is madness, hateful bigotry, intolerance, child abuse, misogyny, murder, torture, and every vicious thing known to humanity.
      There is no love in Christianity or the bible they use. And love, warped by religious madness, is insane and twisted from its intent. By these fruits we know them to be insane and no protests to the contrary can be shown to have any basis in fact or reality...

      June 4, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • Topher

      "Their evil shows us that their god does not exist."

      Actually, our evil is just more evidence to the accuracy of the Bible. It says that none of us are good, "no, not one." Isaiah 64:6 takes this even further ... "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags ..." This is a reference to menstral rags. You can't get any more dirty than that.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:31 pm |
    • Wrath of Anubus

      Quoting the bible is not evidence of anything. You can not use an ancient book of fiction as a point of reference for proof. When much of the book your using as backbone for proof has been proven as false, outright lies, violence towards women, etc... Any point your trying to make is muted and plain stupid.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Topher

      It's not fiction, first of all. Once again, you make accusations that the Bible has been proven false and has lies. If this is so, provide the evidence. But you and I both know none exists. And so again you result to name calling because that's all you have.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:10 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Topher

      There is absolutely no geological evidence for a worldwide flood. There are no records from egypt of a mass exodus of slaves from their lands, or the supposed killing of Pharaoh and his army while chasing the israelites across a parted red sea. Let's start with those two things.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, the onus is on you to prove that your god, or any god, exists and that The Babble is not fiction. Until then, it and you have no more credibility than an astrologer.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
    • Topher

      "There is absolutely no geological evidence for a worldwide flood."

      Actually there's really good evidence of a global flood. See either Answers in Genesis or look up Andrew Snelling.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Topher

      Forgive me if I don't think a apologetics ministry using pseudoscience and bypassing true peer review is an unreliable source. I don't tend to think that just because someone has Ph.D in front of their name makes what they say true all of a sudden. This is why a good peer review process is in place for scientific papers and discoveries. AiG is regarded by most of the science community as something of a joke, as is Snelling.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
    • just sayin

      Topher

      "There is absolutely no geological evidence for a worldwide flood."

      Actually there's really good evidence of a global flood. See either Answers in Genesis or look up Andrew Snelling.
      --–

      Please tell me you are not that stupid.

      June 4, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • just sayin

      Topher

      It's not fiction, first of all. Once again, you make accusations that the Bible has been proven false and has lies. If this is so, provide the evidence. But you and I both know none exists. And so again you result to name calling because that's all you have.
      -
      Exodus never happened and there is no archeology evidence to prove otherwise. Of course there is no evidence to prove that unicorns exist. So perhaps you are still hoping based on lack of evidence....you have faith perhaps?

      June 4, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Topher, your credibility is sinking to less than an astrologer's....

      June 4, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  14. Bootyfunk

    a rabbi, a lawyer and a priest are on a sinking ship.
    the rabbi says, "we must save the children."
    the lawyer says, "fvck the children."
    the priest says, "do you think we have time?"

    June 4, 2012 at 1:39 am |
    • Topher

      That's disgusting.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:50 am |
    • mickey1313

      Hahaha. Do you know the easiest was to get a nun pregnant? Dress her up as an alter boy.

      June 4, 2012 at 1:58 am |
    • Topher

      That's not funny. And this subject is nothing to be joked about.

      June 4, 2012 at 2:02 am |
    • Mass Debater

      The non-religious joke about it, the Pius priests are the ones doin it...

      June 4, 2012 at 2:04 am |
  15. Bootyfunk

    look at that picture. the face of a monster.

    would anyone leave their child alone with a man wearing a white collar these days?

    June 4, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • The worst form of child abuse

      Would be to believe that Bootyfunk had a childs best interest at heart

      June 4, 2012 at 4:29 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      hey, it's my creepy stalker! how goes it, captain creepy?

      June 4, 2012 at 5:02 am |
    • Mirosal

      The children are the innocent, and deserve to be protected against the abu'se of the idiots with collars, and the real fools who follow and support them. The worst form of child abu'se would be to indoctrinate them into a mythology, tell them it's real, and if they don't adhere to it, they will suffer for all eternity. Threatening a child with something he doesn't have a concept about, and making him fear for his actions through his entire life is abu'se in the 1st degree.

      June 4, 2012 at 5:50 am |

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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.