By David Mattingly, CNN
St. Paul, Minnesota (CNN)–Before Sunday morning services, the Rev. Oliver White looked at the rows of empty pews in his tiny St. Paul, Minnesota, church without regret.
"If this was a mistake," White said, "then I will make the mistake all over again."
In 2005, White made a costly decision.
At the United Church of Christ's annual synod in Atlanta, White was among delegates voting in favor of a resolution supporting same-sex marriage.
When word of his vote reached St. Paul, White's congregation quietly revolted. Two-thirds of the church's members vanished in just a few weeks, and they never came back.
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"When I talked to them," White said, "(I was told) categorically, 'I cannot be a part of a church that accepts same-sex marriage – period.' "
White was stunned.
As an African-American, he had always preached a message of social justice and acceptance. Gays and lesbians frequently attended services. But White didn't realize at the time how deeply the beliefs about homosexuality ran in his African-American congregation.
"We are more fundamentally religious than I ever dreamed," he said. "They thought I was a heretic, that I was not leading them to Christ. Christ, according to them, instituted the institution of marriage, and I was not following Christ's will because marriage is supposed to take place between a man and a woman; marriage is about procreation."
In the weeks since President Barack Obama publicly embraced same-sex marriage, what's going on in St. Paul indicates how deeply the issue may divide black worshippers and African-Americans in general.
White's Grace Community United Church of Christ on St. Paul's East Side had always been small and poor. But with 300 members in 2005, the church had managed to meet its expenses, move into a larger building and employ a full-time secretary and youth director.
When the membership evaporated, so did weekly offerings. Desperate to stay afloat, the church took out a high-interest loan in hopes that membership would rebound.
Other United Church of Christ congregations experienced similar turmoil after the 2005 synod. But the impact on Grace Community was extreme.
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It is the only UCC congregation in Minnesota that is predominately African-American.
Longtime Grace Community member Frances Goodlow said the damage to the church's reputation in the black community was irreparable.
"There are consequences. And the consequences are you are going to get a stigma on you that this is a gay church with a gay pastor. And it's not true."
White's daughter, Meredith Fancher-White, said she believes her father paid a high personal price for publicly supporting same-sex marriage.
"There was this horrible rumor that he was a gay minister. So my dad got a lot of ridicule, especially in the black community," she said.
Her father, who is 69 and married, still has people question his sexuality. " 'I heard you are gay, are you?' That's the way they ask it," he said.
The impact on Grace Community Church has been equally persistent. No one from the surrounding neighborhood will attend.
"This church is located in a community that is extremely homophobic and very transient," Oliver White said.
"So you've got people that live around this church who won't come near this church because they think we are a gay church."
My Take: The Christian case for gay marriage
The Rev. Jerry McAfee, an African-American and president of the Minnesota State Baptist Convention, disagrees with White's view that homophobia is to blame for his church's problems with the black community.
"This debate is so crazy. Those of us who will disagree with that lifestyle, they will want to say we're homophobic, that we're narrow-minded. Just stuff that's nonsense," McAfee said.
McAfee said he sees a belief system at work among African-Americans that goes beyond teachings of the Bible.
"There's just something about (same-sex marriage) in their minds that (doesn't) seem right."
The two pastors' disagreement over the issue represents a microcosm of African-American reaction to Obama's newly announced support for same-sex marriage.
In an April poll, 49% of African-Americans opposed legalized same-sex marriage and 39% supported it, according to the Pew Research Center. Among whites, 47% supported same-sex marriage, while 43% opposed it. In California, 70% of African-Americans supported Proposition 8, the state's 2008 ban on same-sex marriage, even though 94% of black voters in California backed Obama.
My Take: The Bible condemns a lot, but here's why we focus on homosexuality
In the religious community, African-American pastors have been prominent in the movement to ban same-sex marriage. In North Carolina, black leaders recently helped lead the successful campaign for a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage and domestic partnerships.
At White's church in Minnesota, a broken, stained-glass window above the front door is one of the few outward indications that Grace Community is in financial ruin. On the verge of defaulting on its loan and closing its doors, the church tries to make money by renting its facilities out to other nascent congregations. But even that has become a problem. A Seventh-day Adventist congregation recently discontinued renting the Grace Community sanctuary.
Pastor Donald Keith, who is also African-American, did not want to pay $350 a month to a church that accepts same sex-marriage, saying he based his decision on the Bible.
"The role of a minister," Keith said, "is to represent God. In doing that, the Bible is our anchor. And if we decide to teach the opposite of what the Bible teaches, it is best to separate."
Several weeks ago, White appealed for donations on the Internet. Each day he sits at his desk and goes through a stack of letters looking for a miracle.
He jokingly said he prays for $200,000, the amount needed to pay off the church's loan and expenses while it tries to recover. Most donations are small, maybe $1 to $5 at a time.
There are also words of encouragement. "Thank you for your principles," wrote a contributor from Minnesota.
Another from California wrote, "Thank you for having the courage to stand up for what is right."
But there are frequently disturbing messages, too.
"Die and go to hell-fast," read one anonymous letter. Another read, "I'm looking for you, and I will find you, and when I do, look out!! Bam!!"
"I receive telephone calls from people who say, 'I know where your church is, I know where you live, I know where you work. If you say one more word in support of gay marriage, it will be your last,' " White said.
He said he takes the threats seriously and takes precautions. But he doesn't keep quiet.
"I don't believe in 'don't ask, don't tell.' That's what the churches are doing now – both black and white churches, the fundamental churches. They know that there are gay people sitting in the pews. They know that. They know that there are many talented gay people who are performing great works who are in their churches.
"They know that.
"But it's going to be 'don't ask, don't tell.' We can all get along just as long as you don't come out of the closet and tell people you're gay. You cannot go to any of those churches and hold hands. So as long as you sit apart and go along with the program, no one's going to say anything."
Now, only about 10 people regularly attend Grace Community Church.
White speaks to what remains of his congregation from behind the same pinewood pulpit he's used for decades. When not in use, it sits in a place of honor near the front of the sanctuary covered with a red velvet cloth. White will take the pulpit with him if the church closes.
At the current pace of donations, it could be days away.
White ran his hand across the top of the pulpit and reminisced about better times – the years and places he preached from that spot. Then he remembered one final sermon about temptation.
A man recently called White offering to end his church's financial problems if he would renounce his views and "come back to God."
White declined the man's offer.
"(I could) preach a lie, live a lie and be a liar. But my heart would not even begin to let me go in that direction," White said. "There's not enough money on this planet that would make me turn around and go back the other way."
Gravity is not up for debate ! ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas..........that do not lie or sin !!!..........
Free speech helps educate the masses................POLITICIANS too !
Where do morals come from?
By Kelly Murray, CNN
Gravity is not up for debate ! ............E = mc2..........(U–Pb).................two math formulas..........that do not lie or sin !!!..........
BY the way ...................Splat goes a fairy in the sky !...............bye bye tinker bell !
Einstein's Gravity Theory Passes Toughest Test Yet
Apr. 25, 2013 — A strange stellar pair nearly 7,000 light-years from Earth has provided physicists with a unique cosmic laboratory for studying the nature of gravity. The extremely strong gravity of a massive neutron star in orbit with a companion white dwarf star puts competing theories of gravity to a test more stringent than any available before
Hey James Madison................religion has none it looks like.............with the comments on this blog.
The Big question is ETHICS ! does religion have any ?
The Ethics of Resurrecting Extinct Species
Apr. 8, 2013 — At some point, scientists may be able to bring back extinct animals, and perhaps early humans, raising questions of ethics and environmental disruption.
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Dinosaur Egg Study Supports Evolutionary Link Between Birds and Dinosaurs: How Troodon Likely Hatched Its Young
And NO ANGELS the pope KICKED them OFF the TEAM last year !
From Soup to Cells—the Origin of Life
the wrong path is Adam and Eve !
Human Y Chromosome Much Older Than Previously Thought
Mar. 4, 2013 — The discovery and analysis of an extremely rare African American Y chromosome pushes back the time of the most recent common ancestor for the Y chromosome lineage tree to 338,000 years ago. This time predates the age of the oldest known anatomically modern human fossils.
No god(s) needed or required to graduate from public schools in the US
Remember : Adam had to POKE himself hard with his OWN BONE to create Eve.
No god(s) needed................... Old. DNA works..................also catches crooks !
Ancient DNA Reveals Europe's Dynamic Genetic History
Apr. 23, 2013 — Ancient DNA recovered from a series of skeletons in central Germany up to 7,500 years old has been used to reconstruct the first detailed genetic history of modern Europe.
Ca-nabis and Cannabinoids (PDQ®) – National Cancer Insti-tute
Mar 21, 2013 – [1,2] These plant-derived compounds may be referred to as phytocannabinoids. ... have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. ... In lung cancer cell lines, CBD upregulated ICAM-1, leading to ...
Good stuff !
The fact...............the earth is to old for this nonsemse ! Time to EVOLVE !
Ancient Earth Crust Stored in Deep Mantle
Apr. 24, 2013 — Scientists have long believed that lava erupted from certain oceanic volcanoes contains materials from the early Earth's crust. But decisive evidence for this phenomenon has proven elusive. New research from a team including Carnegie's Erik Hauri demonstrates that oceanic volcanic rocks contain samples of recycled crust dating back to the Archean era 2.5 billion years ago. Their work is published in Nature.
For what...................... ? Make sure to read what the pope said !
Learning is fun with facts.......................... and facts work when teaching children.
Atheist Prof. Peter Higgs: Stop calling Higgs boson the ‘God particle’
Professor Peter Higgs said recently that there is no God and so people should stop referring to the theoretical partial that
bears his name as the “God particle.”
Pope praises science, but insists God created world updated Thur October 28, 2010
Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday – God did create the universe. The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme... \
Heaven is 'a fairy story,' scientist Stephen Hawking says updated Tue May 17, 2011
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor The concept of heaven or any kind of afterlife is a "fairy story," famed British scientist Stephen Hawking said in a newspaper interview this week. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when...
April 7th, 2012
08:32 PM ET
The Jesus debate: Man vs. myth
Make sure to read comments
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NASA: Three planets found are some of best candidates so far for habitable worlds outside our solar system.
NASA: Mars could have supported life
Star Dust we are
Holy Hallucinations 35
The ORIGIN story is bullsh-it...............so is the bible............... nasty !
Scientists have unearthed the first direct signs of cheesemaking, at a site in Poland that dates back 7,500 years.
BBC. Planet of the Apemen. Battle for Earth 1. Ho-mo Erectus
BACKFILL on E =mc2.....
Einstein letter, set for auction, shows scientist challenging idea of God, being 'chosen'
By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
Decades before atheist scientist and author Richard Dawkins called God a "delusion," one world-renowned physicist – Albert Einstein – was weighing in on faith matters with his own strong words.
“The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends,” Einstein wrote in German in a 1954 letter that will be auctioned on eBay later this month. "No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.”
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Cheech & Chong's History of 420
Cheech & Chong's History of 420 from CheechAndChong
All cults...........creationists, ID believers and devil cults.................
The fact...............the earth is to old ...........time to EVOLVE !.
Dover Trial Transcripts............................................. FACTS.
Below are the complete transcripts from the Dover Trial. Thanks to our friends at the National Center for Science Education for helping us fill in the missing transcripts.
Education works for children
Earth From Space
Detailed satellite images reveal the web of connections that sustain life on Earth. Aired February 13, 2013 on PBS
"Earth From Space" is a groundbreaking two-hour special that reveals a spectacular new space-based vision of our planet. Produced in extensive consultation with NASA scientists, NOVA takes data from earth-observing satellites and transforms it into dazzling visual sequences, each one exposing the intricate and surprising web of forces that sustains life on earth. Viewers witness how dust blown from the Sahara fertilizes the Amazon; how a vast submarine "waterfall" off Antarctica helps drive ocean currents around the world; and how the sun's heating up of the southern Atlantic gives birth to a colossally powerful hurricane. From the microscopic world of water molecules vaporizing over the ocean to the magnetic field that is bigger than Earth itself, the show reveals the astonishing beauty and complexity of our dynamic planet.
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I with you completely agree.
P.S. You Uncle Toms. Don't you see that's what the world of haters want to hear from YOU. STOP you Fools. Stop. Go get a real job. and STOP
These BLACK fools are at it again. YOU DO NOT SPEAK for all blacks. Take about GOD not about people that you feel are different. YOU can't see that this president is an upstanding man. We have to be like crabs all the time GO GO fix your communities and teach these people to use birth control, go to school, speak clearly and correctly and get a DD JOB then you can call your self a pastor. OR even a man.
Reblogged this on topgunairspace.
Wish there were most Pastors like him. He is a true example of the compassion and love that Jesus preached. Sounds like we have way to many Sadducees and Pharisees in the world today. Correct me if I am wrong but I never read of Jesus turing away or judging anyone that came to him. The people everyone is frowning and turning their noses up at are the same people Jesus would be welcoming with open arms. Guess people are going to do whatever it takes to make themselves feel better even if it means trying to hold someone else down. Its Sad really.
It is not the pastor's church. The church is of Christ. Secondly, the UCC has a congregational model of government. That means, the opinions and desires of the people in the pews matter. Third, the people who left also acted on principle. They stated that the pastor crossed the line and was no longer representing the preaching and teaching of the early church as contained in the canonical scriptures. I prefer to see the people as the real heroes. They stood up to an arrogant pastor who acted like an autocrat and departed from the normative faith of the congregation. This is a glaring example of why mainline churches are dying and becoming irrelevant.
These comments show what happens when you cast your pearls before swine. They don't appreciate the truth. The carnal mind can not understand the truth. Jesus, speaking in Matthew 19:5, defined marriage as a man and a woman. That's as authoritative as it gets. Liberal judges have decided otherwise and will answer to God for it. "Gay" was classified as a mental illness for a long time and I think it still should be. How can you not know which se-x you are opposite from?
Praise the Lord for speaking through you. Amen.
This World is out of control. Not only has the goverment, adn president lost their mind, but now our Pastor's are turning away from God's word and are more worry about what men think instead of God. Its going to be a very sad day for some when they stand beofre God. These so-called pastos who claim to love God, and God's word are going to be very sadden when they stand before God. This are signs of our dear Lord's return.
Good for Him maybe their is hope for the sheepeole
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.