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Can 'true Catholics' support same-sex marriage?
Ex-priest Jim Smith, opponent of Minnesota's ballot to ban same-sex marriages, says these are difficult days to be Catholic.
June 20th, 2012
09:35 AM ET

Can 'true Catholics' support same-sex marriage?

By Chris Welch, CNN

Minneapolis (CNN) - Jim Smith is a former Roman Catholic priest who left his post with the church 10 years ago. He's an ex-priest for several reasons, he says, but one of his main concerns was the church's stance against same-sex marriage and other LGBT issues.

But Smith remains a Catholic - though he says being a Catholic who actively campaigns for legalized same-sex marriages can be difficult these days.

"I'd much rather this wasn't happening," Smith says of the division that the issue has created among Minnesota  Catholics. "But it does provide some real opportunities because it challenges us to talk to each other, Catholics talking to other Catholics."

Minnesota has become the newest epicenter in the same-sex marriage fight. This November, voters will decide whether they want an amendment added to the state's constitution that would ban marriage between members of the same sex.

Smith will be voting "no." And he has helped spearhead efforts in the state to persuade other Catholics to do the same.

A group he helped form,  Catholics for Marriage Equality-Minnesota, aims "to encourage Catholics to consider the profound sacredness of same-gender relationships and to defeat this marriage amendment," Smith says.

Vatican edicts against same-sex marriage often give Catholic same-sex marriage supporters the impression they're in the minority.

Related story: Same-sex marriage by the numbers 

But a recent poll by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) suggests 59% of American Catholics support rights allowing gay and lesbian couples to legally marry. One reason behind that statistic - says PRRI CEO Robert P. Jones - is because U.S. Catholics "overwhelmingly reject the idea that sexual orientation can be changed." A PRRI poll bears that out – with 69% of Catholics nationwide saying a person's sexual orientation cannot be changed.

In the Midwest alone, Catholics are evenly divided on the issue of same-sex marriage -– with 46% in favor, 47% against.

Opinion: GOP support for same-sex marriage growing

Related story: Both sides re-energized for upcoming same-sex marriage fight

Like Jim Smith, Michelle LaFrance is a Catholic who has also taken the bold step against the church in support of marriage equality.

"I remember thinking 'wow, maybe I shouldn't [remain a Catholic],' " LaFrance said. Ultimately they've remained with the Catholic faith, citing its many positive aspects including going to church. It's an important weekly ritual for LaFrance, her husband and their three kids.

"The Catholic Church, despite the media [attention] it typically gets, does a lot of great things, a lot of great social justice," LaFrance said. She noted the church "feeds the poor, houses the homeless, takes care of the abused."

The LaFrance family belongs to the Church of St. Margaret Mary in the Minneapolis suburb of Golden Valley, a congregation which LaFrance describes as fairly progressive. She says the majority of her fellow parishioners agree with her stance on same-sex marriage.

But when LaFrance hears the archdiocese telling people how they should think about it, she can't help but sometimes feel like less of a Catholic.

"I don't think anybody - whatever their religious denomination - whole-heartedly follows every single rule down to the letter."

Related story: U.S. history of same-sex marriage

On the other side of the debate stands Dave Deavel.

Although he agrees with LaFrance to an extent, he says he believes there are certain pillars of the Catholic faith that people should follow. One of those is the church stance that marriage should remain between one man and one woman.

"The whole point of what the church teaches is to form people's consciences," Deavel says.

For Deavel, his wife and their five children, attending church is so important they strive to go multiple times a week.

He's active with Minnesota for Marriage, which supports of the same-sex-marriage ban, and has written various blog posts on the topic for the Minnesota Catholic Conference.

Asked whether he believes a person can be "less of a Catholic" for disagreeing with the church, Deavel says the Vatican "doesn't really have a certain category for 'less of a Catholic.' "

"But they certainly don't represent what the church teaches," he said. "Is it a spiritual problem? I think yes."

Opinion: The secret gay agenda

In a written statement the MCC said groups such as Catholics for Marriage Equality "do not have any right to call their organizations 'Catholic.'"

In the past, the conference has issued statements accusing Catholics for Marriage Equality of trying "to confuse Catholics and the public about authentic church teaching" on marriage.

"Catholics for Marriage Equality MN attempts to convince Catholics that they can be in good standing with the church and oppose church teaching about human sexuality and marriage, which centers on the complementarity of the sexes and the mutual self-gift of loving spouses in marital union," said an MCC statement.

The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis declined CNN's request for an interview, but it agreed with sentiments expressed by the Minnesota Catholic Conference.

Does church doctrine make it impossible for same-sex marriage supporters to be true Catholics?

"There is no judgment intended about an individual's 'Catholicity' or 'Catholic-ness,' " says MCC spokeswoman Jessica Zittlow.

Minnesota's November ballot proposal to ban same-sex marriage isn't an amendment against LGBT individuals, say the MCC and the St. Paul and Minneapolis Archdiocese. Instead, they say it should strictly be viewed as an amendment supporting traditional marriage.

For ex-priest Jim Smith, grappling with the issue has been difficult - a personal struggle that extends to the heart of his faith.

The inner conflict between what Smith believes is right and his love for the church has pushed him to consider leaving the Catholic religion altogether.

In the end, Smith vows he will stay. "It's in my bones."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 2012 Election • Catholic Church • Christianity • Faith • Minnesota • Politics • Polls • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (2,849 Responses)
  1. JWDT

    These type of Catholics are called cafeteria 'Catholics' because they pick and choose what they wish to believe in...very much like the Pharisees & Sadduccees. I pray for their return to the Faith they have left because of the vices or beliefs they do not want to assent to.

    June 20, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • howart Dao

      EVery extreme pious religious type is cafeteria because it chooses the items that it wants to believe in 😉

      June 20, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • McCave

      Exactly right. If you're going to be a believer, you have to take the whole package, not just the parts that you like.

      June 20, 2012 at 11:04 pm |
    • LOL Religion

      If you threw all the cafeteria Catholics out of the RCC, not even the Pope would remain.

      You certainly wouldn't at any rate.

      June 21, 2012 at 1:57 am |
  2. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Back to the topic, not that most of the dolts here remember what it is: the fact is that it is inconsequential whether Catholics support gay marriage or not. The issue is likely to be decided by the justices of the SCOTUS. It won't come down to popular vote or the nonexistent, but imaginary, "authority" of the church, whether Catholic or otherwise.

    June 20, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • Mad Hatter

      To sum up all Tom Tom's postings. Imagine the cartoon Tasmanian Devil; "rant, rant, bla,bla,bla DOLT, rant, rant, bla, bla, MORON, bla, bla, rant, rant I'M SMARTER THAN YOU, rant, bla, bal, rant, DUMBAZZ.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Guess I hit a nerve...

      Bull's eye!!!

      June 20, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
    • Ummm Beer

      You forgot the fake baby crying waaaaa etc., but you pretty much captured it.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Poor little Mad. Sorry if I bruised you ittie bittie ego, little tender heart! I wouldn't want to do any harm to a poor dumb creature.

      Nighty-night, little one!

      June 20, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
  3. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    What I wonder, honey, is why you're so ticked off. Do you think I make YOU look bad? Really? When you don't know the difference between a sentence's subject and its predicate?

    June 20, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • Keith

      You really ARE an old bat retired public skool English teacher, aren't you?

      June 20, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hardly. Not retired. Not an English teacher. Not in the public schools, or the private ones. Just someone who got a decent education and values the English language.

      And you? Pipefitter extraordinaire?

      June 20, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • Mad Hatter

      My take on Tom Tom is she is mid 60s, short, ugly, probably alone.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Your take is pretty far off, dearie. Don't bet anything using your intuition.

      Hey, KEEF, have you figured out that Obama isn't Muslim and that he was born in the US?

      You might find a few kindred spirits here, among the dim.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:50 pm |
  4. Atheists Rule

    So, I guess we can add the following to tom Tom's impressive list.

    “And retard? It's "us atheists" not "we atheists". You, not I, are the embarrassment to atheists, doofus.
    Don't bother to attempt to associate yourself with me, you moron. You're not in my league.”

    I guess the US Const.itution guarantees free speech. You know, the one that begins “Us the People”. Lol.

    "

    June 20, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So your freshman English teacher didn't tell you that the object and the subject of a sentence required different forms of the noun, huh?

      Poor you.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • McCave

      I totally agree with you, athiest or not.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It's "atheist", moron.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:36 pm |
    • Atheists Rule

      Thanks McCave, please just don't think we are all like Tom, Tom. Most of us (or should that be "most of we". Tom tom) are rational people, capable of articulating a disagreemnt in terms that do not come straight from a Middle School playground.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If most are like you, Atheists Rule, you're more of an embarrassment than anything else. Did you really think you weren't obviously a troll? Are you truly that dumb? Do you think anyone else is?

      Get off it, you fraud. Don't even pretend you're anything but another iteration of the same stupid thumper dolt.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
  5. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Do any of you watch "Nurse Jackie"? If so, here's to you: "BLOW ME"

    June 20, 2012 at 10:25 pm |
    • McCave

      a well though out argument, Tom. Clearly you have studied this issue in detail. Or at least Nurse Jackie.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I've studied plenty in detail. Unfortunately, anything that involves sentient thought is wasted on you, McCabe.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Let me know when you get a dictionary containing the word "millennia", honey.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
  6. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Who cares what Catholics support? They aren't in charge of the country, and their beliefs aren't law. This is a secular nation. No religious beliefs are the basis for our laws.

    June 20, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
  7. Atheists Rule

    Below is a sampling of Tom, Tom the Piper's Son's postings fron one page of this one blog tonight. To all people out there with a different view to Tom Tom the Piper's Son, please do not think all we atheists are all as sterotypically abrasive as him/her. Most of us can articulate an argument without lowering ourselves to senseless insults. Remember, you have your Fred Phelps, too.....

    Ooh, you think that, do you? Guess what, you moron? No one gives a crap what you 'think' since you seldom do so.

    @ a Catholic, no, I can't. Not when the moron I'm responding to deserves to be called an azzhole.

    Really, a Catholic moron, are you intending to deny marriage only to GAY Catholics, you idiot? Your moronic pronouncements affect EVERYONE, and therefore, you deserve to be castigated BY EVERYONE.
    If you don't like it, you azzhole, then stop BEING an azzhole!

    Hey, a Catholic, if you can't take it when posters on a free forum tell you you're full of crap, you're free to leave. Get it?

    Awahahawahahwah wah, And, A Catholic? What's the down side? Huh?

    Poor little Catholic! You're "forced" to "accept" it? And? What do you think is going to change? What monumental sacrifice do you think you're going to have to make, you little dork? Good grief, you are lame!

    Don't have a clue what you are blathering about. Not that it matters, as most of what you post is drivel anyway. Sweet dreams, dumbazz.

    Not that you'll be able to understand them, honey, but have you checked the stats on how the legalization of gay marriage will positively affect the economy?

    Dana=dumbazz.

    June 20, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • OldFashionedChristian

      Actually, in my experience, most atheists are almost as bad as Tom Tom the piper's son. (S)He is probably an extreme example, but most of you can be abbrasive.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gee, what's the matter, honey? Diddums widdle feewings get hurt? Why don't you get off your sorry azz and stop whining?

      No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read my posts. Yet you think I owe you some sensitivity?

      Why? Where does CNN's TOS require that I kowtow to you and your little nerves?

      June 20, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Old Christian: it's "abrasive". Not "abbrasive".

      Do you morons think you're doing the secular argument a favor?

      June 20, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
  8. A Catholic

    I think that most of the people commenting here are not even Catholic. This is a Catholic issue and should not involve non-Catholics.

    June 20, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ooh, you think that, do you? Guess what, you moron? No one gives a crap what you 'think' since you seldom do so.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:48 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      When catholics are part of the group who want to marginalize a minority based on their religious beliefs, it becomes everyones fu.cking problem.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • A Catholic

      Tom,

      What the hell is your problem? I mean, really? Can't you comment without being insulting?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Bet

      When you try to deny people civil rights, it's everybody's business, just like it's everybody's business when your church leadership allows pedophiles to continue abusing children.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • A Catholic

      Hawaii,

      No, this is about whether one can be a Catholic and still support gay marriage. It is a Catholic problem. If the issue was simply gay marriage then it would be everybody's issue.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @ a Catholic, no, I can't. Not when the moron I'm responding to deserves to be called an azzhole.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      And it wouldn't even be on a major news site if it wasn't for the anti-gay movement from the religious. This whole thing is merely a symptom of a much larger issue, of which the catholic church is a part of.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • rudyardK

      @Tom Tom:

      Our Dark Beacon Tom Tom
      Seeks what? I cannot say.

      Bombs of wit she drops
      Intermixed with duds they fall
      Respectably clever insults on occasion
      Denting only the weak. Tsk tsk...

      June 20, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really, a Catholic moron, are you intending to deny marriage only to GAY Catholics, you idiot? Your moronic pronouncements affect EVERYONE, and therefore, you deserve to be castigated BY EVERYONE.

      If you don't like it, you azzhole, then stop BEING an azzhole!

      June 20, 2012 at 9:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Rudy Kipling, dear, I have nothing but adoration for ya, honey. But if you wanna critique my writing, then at least set an example by posting some of your own, and not just in response.

      Thanks in advance, Gunga Din.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • Atheists Rule

      Tom I gotta tell ya, I agree with A Catholic. Virtually every post you make starts off with telling somebody how stupid they are. It gets old and makes all we atheists look like jerks.

      You often have good points to make, so why predicate them on being a jerk?

      June 20, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oooh, boo hoo hoo. However WILL I recover? Some moron thinks I should change my posting style!! I am bereft! I am so saddened by this turn of the screw!

      Get bent, dude. I don't post for your benefit or that of anyone else, you dip wad. Get a clue. You can either read my posts and ignore them or you can scroll past them. Or you can screw yourself. Take your pick, dumbsh!t. I owe you and others not a fvcking thing. Get over it.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And retard? It's "us atheists" not "we atheists". You, not I, are the embarrassment to atheists, doofus.

      Don't bother to attempt to associate yourself with me, you moron. You're not in my league.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • OldFashionedChristian

      So, Tom Tom, could you have proved A Catholic and Athiests Rule's points any better if you tried. lol. You sound like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum screaming "I am not a big baby, I am not a big baby."

      June 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And you think anyone's listening to you, you old coot?

      I have news for you and your sock puppet: if you don't like what I post, you have some choices: go screw yourselves, leave, or scroll.

      What you don't get to do is tell me what I may or may not post, regardless of your opinions of the content or the style.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • kway

      Tom Tom...big fat ugly baby...waaaaaa. Waaaaaaassa

      June 22, 2012 at 7:02 pm |
  9. Dorothy

    Of course true Catholics can support gay marriage. Not only can they, according to this article 59% do support it. The hierarchy of Catholicism has always been an embarrassment to the church throughout history.....and the vocal few that follow them blindly are simply to be pitied. Gays who wish to live in monogamous, married relationships should be supported....not made to feel like second class citizens. It is pure foolishness to believe this is sinful in any way.

    June 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • tz

      Dorthy your posts are so filled with hate. Too bad Jesus didn't have your foresight, he could have left St Paul walking on the road to Damascus and called you instead.

      btw if you replaced the word catholic with gay on these comments, CNN would have taken them all down by now. The new tolerance...the only thing that is forbidden is to forbid.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:43 pm |
    • A Catholic

      A true Catholic is one who is true to the teachings of the Church. If you cannot be true to the teachings of the Church, you are free to leave. Catholicism is not a democracy.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, a Catholic, if you can't take it when posters on a free forum tell you you're full of crap, you're free to leave. Get it?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:49 pm |
    • Bet

      @tz

      I don't see anything hateful in what Dorothy said. What did you find hateful? Not just challenging you, I really don't see it.

      Also, CNN does not have humans monitoring this site, evaluating posts and deciding what to put up and what to eliminate. There's a filter that flags certain words, even if it's just part of another word. The word consti.tution will get your post booted because it contains the word t.it. You have to get a little creative to get around the filter. But it's just a program, not a person.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
  10. A Catholic

    I would just like to know why CNN is pushing the gay agenda. It seems like every week there is something posted about gays, but nothing that ever paints them in a less-than-favorable light.

    June 20, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I guess it hasn't occured to you that a lot of people aren't ass backwards bigots.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • McCave

      You're right. CNN is pro-gay all the way. You will never see them print a story like that.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Please, do elaborate on the mythical " gay agenda ".

      June 20, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • Dorothy

      That may be because as a whole the are pretty darn good people. It would be like saying 70 years ago, why do those darn papers only publish positive articles about desegregation and inter-racial marriage. Don't they know there is a whole dark side to it (answer: ummmmm.....no....only a dark side to the bigots and the KKK)

      June 20, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Second midwest's request. What, precisely, is this "gay agenda" you are all so bent out of shape about?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • Dorothy

      Oh, Midwest , you know that "gay agenda" where they are in the courts fighting for marriage so they can live in monogamous legally recognized relationships. Where they are in the courts fighting to serve our country in the military. Where they are in the courts fighting for family so they can raise their kids as a stable couple! That darn gay agenda. Why can't they be in the courts like the catholic hierarchy fighting for a truly moral agenda?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • midwest rail

      – quietly hums the theme from " Jeopardy" –

      June 20, 2012 at 9:30 pm |
    • A Catholic

      The gay agenda is to have their relationships recognized as equal to straight relationships and to force the rest of us to accept it.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      I don't think they give a sh.it if you accept them, as long as the have equal rights under the law.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Awahahawahahwah wah, And, A Catholic? What's the down side? Huh?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Poor little Catholic! You're "forced" to "accept" it? And? What do you think is going to change? What monumental sacrifice do you think you're going to have to make, you little dork? Good grief, you are lame!

      June 20, 2012 at 9:46 pm |
    • sam stone

      A Catholic: We really don't give a steaming dump whether you accept it. You are free to hide your bigotry behind a bible as much as you want. This is about equal rights

      June 21, 2012 at 6:29 am |
    • sam stone

      A Catholic: They ARE equal under the law of the land. If the Vatican version of NAMBLA doesn't want to bless them, it is well within their rights. They can feel all pious while they continue to hide the pedophiles

      June 21, 2012 at 6:39 am |
  11. hippypoet

    Awakened Desire

    I dream of a night where i can blink eye and put out the light.
    It's obvious to me now to get to sleep is held by slits allow.
    When it came time for shut-eye and goodbye.
    My spirit was set free for great depravity.
    I bit my lip and clenched my fist,
    But these tainted desires, these thoughts persist.
    At the reach of each arm lay a tangible temptation.
    Through the act of sin i find i love this abomination.
    I caress her legs and run my fingers down her skin.
    The warmth of her body, like a blanket I wrap myself in.
    I @ssume her throne and bathe in her power.
    I rock her earth and debase her flower.
    Shy the sigh and give to scream instead.
    Don't hold back, Lay with three in the artists bed.
    One for me and one for you,
    Lets find out what an extra four lips can do.
    You have your toy and I have mine.
    How fast can you make those eyes shine?
    I make you my own and show you my cure.
    You'll never walk right again, that you can be sure.
    So I pull out and set my loin free.
    I see in friends eye desire my specter be.
    She charges hell's inferno and makes me her own.
    But little does this wretch know there is no room for her on my throne.
    Know if others fire burns in my eye, there will be no sleep for me.
    For I find I have a grave gift of deplorable debauchery.

    June 20, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
  12. McCave

    Dorothy, does the gospel sound like foolishness to you?

    June 20, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • Dorothy

      No. McCave. That is why many Catholic theologians and Biblical scholars are among those who support gay marriage. The hierarchy and those that blindly follow them often lag behind about 400 years.....Galileo and Leonardo DaVinci being cases in point.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
  13. concerned

    @Tom Tom
    Not upset, just interested in the names people choose to call themselves.
    it tells a lot about themselves.

    Don't remember being bullied, though.

    June 20, 2012 at 8:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Don't have a clue what you are blathering about. Not that it matters, as most of what you post is drivel anyway. Sweet dreams, dumbazz.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
  14. Joey Isotta-Fraschini ©™

    Almost all churches do some good things. Many churches do some bad things.
    If I were a gay Roman Catholic, I'd probably look into some more advanced denominations.

    June 20, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Dana

      JOEY<<< you would be Episcopal.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Dorothy

      It is true that most episcopalians have evolved to recognize that gay relationships are not sinful. The Catholic hierarchy tends to take about 400 years to catch up with reality.....Galileo and Leonardo DaVinci being case in point. It is nice to know that despite their hierarchy at least 59% of their faithful are able to keep up with the true voice of God. I always wondered what that number was.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:45 pm |
  15. Dana

    PEOPLE<<<<<<God is not all forgiving.To argue with atheists I wont. But WHAT IF, Devil or Angel, God or Satan, or just nothing, WHAT IF.

    June 20, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • McCave

      Good point Dana. Thing about it... what if it were all true...

      June 20, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Your post makes no sense. Try licking the foam from your lips and go again.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • LOL Religion

      WHAT IF you could form a coherent sentence?

      June 20, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • Dorothy

      The "what if" is not a problem because to believe that God would be more concerned about what goes on with your tally wackier more than be happy that two consenting adults entered into a loving, nurturing, committed, faithful relationship is beyond the absurd. To believe that marriage should be more about what is between your legs than what is in your hearts is the real perversion and abomination!

      June 20, 2012 at 8:29 pm |
    • Dana

      McCave<<< that is what he gave us, free will to choose.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • sam stone

      Dana: Try English. It is easier to communicate that way

      June 20, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It can't. It's Yoda.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
  16. McCave

    Once you have rejected God (even though you give God a lot of lip service you don't obey) then you have no reference for sin. That's the word that seem to throw most of you. Sam Stone asked: What make you think it is a sin – I have to assume he is talking about a gay lifestyle and the pedophile (spelling?). Anyway I base my understanding of sin and morals on a solid foundation in black and white that has been tested through the milinia. You base your understanding of sin and morality on your feelings. Being born gay is not a sin. Living it out is.

    June 20, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • Answer

      Being converted to your silly religious bs is the sin. Your whole pathetic religious dogma is a sickness on this world.

      Get some brains and find the information to purge it from yourself. Morons.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Dorothy

      The "gay lifestyle" and pedophilia have nothing in common, you idiot. And regarding the Gay lifestyle' the only things the gays are in the courts fighting for is 1. Marriage so they can live in legally recognized monogamous relationships. 2. Family so they can raise their children as a couple in a stable home. 3. Service to their country in the military. What is the Catholic hierarchy in the courts fighting for? Just saying......

      June 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm |
    • sam stone

      What makes you think that iron age man spoke for god?

      June 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • Oz in OK

      "Anyway I base my understanding of sin and morals on a solid foundation in black and white that has been tested through the milinia." Bull. Christian dogma has changed tremendously over the past 200 years alone. Bible verses that were once 'inerrant word of God' are now 'taken in context' and dismissed as the 'moral laws' they once were.

      June 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm |
    • Madtown

      McCave
      Being born gay is not a sin. Living it out is.
      ----–
      Right, it's so much better to live a lie, to not live as God designed you because a group of empty-headed freaks wrote a book. People like this actually walk among us!

      June 20, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
  17. Jakk

    1% gay 8% unemployed
    makes sense to prioritize gay marriage.

    June 20, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Answer

      Ya we wouldn't want to include such small ratios of people that are affected to be considered would we?

      Like if one of your family members came up with a rare form of cancer we should just ignore your whole entire family's plight because your family is so small compared to the ratio of the whole population.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Dorothy

      Right.....because civil rights for minorities are so unimportant in the USA!

      June 20, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Answer

      I'm never surprised at the total lack of logic or insight by these religious fools. Turn on religion and turn off your brains.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Not that you'll be able to understand them, honey, but have you checked the stats on how the legalization of gay marriage will positively affect the economy? Not that I'd expect you to abandon your strict Christian morals for the bottom line, because of course, no REAL Christian would do so, right? Right???

      June 20, 2012 at 8:14 pm |
    • Jakk

      Im not christian, gay, or unemployed. Just think focus should be put pn majority issues. That how a successful buisiness is run. Apple, microsoft, intel etc. Making decisions off emotion bad idea. Just look at all of the coments. Both sides emotionaly charged. Me – who cares. Bigger issues.

      June 20, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
  18. Dorothy

    Let's look at the gay agenda compared to the religious right's agenda. The religious right's agenda (catholic or Protestant) is 1. Control women. 2. Keep their pastors out of jail. 3. Protect their worldly possessions from lawsuits. 3. Preach hate.
    The gay agenda is 1. Marriage. 2. Family. 3. Serve country in the military.
    God tends to like the good guys. He has already abandoned religion and is now probably Gay.

    June 20, 2012 at 7:40 pm |
    • Joe

      you nailed it dorthy- religion teaches to control woman, keep pastors out of jail,protect their worldly possessions? And my favorite: preach hate! You are a simpleton and just proved it with that ridiculous comment! Could it be a few bad people have done bad things in the name of religion or do you prefer ignorant generalizations.

      June 20, 2012 at 7:52 pm |
    • Dorothy

      Oh joe.......you mean like the generalization that gay relationships are sinful? Doesn't feel so good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it Joe? You just called Catholic teachings the work of "simpletons!". I couldn't agree more. Glad you were able to make my point!

      June 20, 2012 at 8:05 pm |
    • Answer

      It's always about what these religious fools like to hear and spew about. It never their fault that they make their stupid generalizations there in the first place.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:08 pm |
    • Jakk

      Gay agenda is social acceptance. Not going to happen due to religion. By the way not religious and could careless hiw it turns out. Sweden circa ww2

      June 20, 2012 at 10:17 pm |
  19. Joris

    There is so much generalizing and hatred in these comments that I feel reluctant to add something I believe is a profound question, despite the fact that it seems flippant. Can a Catholic take an Oath, call anyone at all "Father" or refuse to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5)? I ask this as a theologian, without hostility or rancor. It just seems that Catholics (and most Christians when you come right down to it) are selective in what they consider important.

    June 20, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You say they're 'selective' as if it's a bad thing. Would it be better if they blindly believed and followed without thought or reason?

      June 20, 2012 at 7:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why shouldn't we be selective? We are here for a brief moment. We live, we die, and most of us won't be remembered beyond the next generation, if that long. We aren't going to make that much of an impact with our thoughts or beliefs or much else. We'll be lucky if our convictions and att itudes are passed on to the next generation and it's extremely unlikely they'll survive beyond that. Why shouldn't we select what we choose to believe and follow?

      June 20, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
  20. McCave

    Regardless of how many people "believe" that gays can't change, it's still a behavior and that can be changed. An pedophile can control his behavior and not sin. Regardless of how you are born you can control your behavior.

    June 20, 2012 at 7:35 pm |
    • Dorothy

      But the real question is why should they change their behavior. Can you really believe That God does not smile upon a loving, nurturing relationship between two consenting adults. Do you really believe God cares what you do with your tally wacker for 1 percent of your life when the rest of your life is that of a loving, faithful, good person?

      June 20, 2012 at 7:44 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      mccave..so is religion a behavior as well.. and you can change and not be so negative about the rest of humanity, and lose the superior feelings.

      June 20, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • Oz in OK

      Ah yes, so you know more about being Gay than Gay folks, eh? Riiiight....

      June 20, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Dana

      Dorthy your a fool if you really believe what your saying. You cannot go through life going against Gods will and expect to be loved and forgiven. You make a mistake but you truly must recognize it and be truly repentant of that sin otherwise Satan has a place for you or nothing awaits you.

      June 20, 2012 at 7:54 pm |
    • Answer

      @McCave

      What is your ludicrous 'sin'? Frankly it is just a vapid term you fools made up just to keep you dullards in tow. Get over it.

      June 20, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Dana=dumbazz.

      June 20, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      What always gets to me is how willing people are to tell others that they deserve ETERNAL FUC.KING TORTURE. I mean seriously have you given up that much of your humanity and compassion? Are you that far gone?

      June 20, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • SJUNE

      The problem is they choose not to change &/or control their behavor
      GOD is our Father not man, God the Father God the Son(ChristJesus)God the Holy Spirit.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:03 pm |
    • Answer

      @Dana

      Name the various places of hell that you know are in controlled by your nonsense satan? While you're at it find any names of places that are in heaven. Is there a famous location in hell that you prefer to see people suffering? What about a famous site in heaven that you fools will ultimately wine and dine around when you're bored in heaven? You're just a fekkin retard.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:04 pm |
    • sam stone

      McCave: What makes you think that it is a sin?

      June 20, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • sam stone

      So, Dana, you speak for god, do you?

      June 20, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I mean seriously have you given up that much of your humanity and compassion? Are you that far gone?

      -–

      Was this a rhetorical question, or did you want a "yes" or "no" answer? If the latter, then: YES, they ARE that far gone.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It just surprises me every time that someone shows how immoral religion can make them, or how it can exacerbate existing sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What's sad, HG, is that I've reached a point where it no longer surprises me in the least.

      Jaded? Me? You friggin' get I am.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What's sad, HG, is that I've reached a point where it no longer surprises me in the least.

      Jaded? Me? You friggin' get I am.

      CRAP! "BET", not get. Sheesh.

      June 20, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • Madtown

      McCave
      it's still a behavior and that can be changed.
      ----
      And, how the heaven would you know this?

      June 20, 2012 at 9:58 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.