home
RSS
Can 'true Catholics' support same-sex marriage?
Ex-priest Jim Smith, opponent of Minnesota's ballot to ban same-sex marriages, says these are difficult days to be Catholic.
June 20th, 2012
09:35 AM ET

Can 'true Catholics' support same-sex marriage?

By Chris Welch, CNN

Minneapolis (CNN) - Jim Smith is a former Roman Catholic priest who left his post with the church 10 years ago. He's an ex-priest for several reasons, he says, but one of his main concerns was the church's stance against same-sex marriage and other LGBT issues.

But Smith remains a Catholic - though he says being a Catholic who actively campaigns for legalized same-sex marriages can be difficult these days.

"I'd much rather this wasn't happening," Smith says of the division that the issue has created among Minnesota  Catholics. "But it does provide some real opportunities because it challenges us to talk to each other, Catholics talking to other Catholics."

Minnesota has become the newest epicenter in the same-sex marriage fight. This November, voters will decide whether they want an amendment added to the state's constitution that would ban marriage between members of the same sex.

Smith will be voting "no." And he has helped spearhead efforts in the state to persuade other Catholics to do the same.

A group he helped form,  Catholics for Marriage Equality-Minnesota, aims "to encourage Catholics to consider the profound sacredness of same-gender relationships and to defeat this marriage amendment," Smith says.

Vatican edicts against same-sex marriage often give Catholic same-sex marriage supporters the impression they're in the minority.

Related story: Same-sex marriage by the numbers 

But a recent poll by the Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI) suggests 59% of American Catholics support rights allowing gay and lesbian couples to legally marry. One reason behind that statistic - says PRRI CEO Robert P. Jones - is because U.S. Catholics "overwhelmingly reject the idea that sexual orientation can be changed." A PRRI poll bears that out – with 69% of Catholics nationwide saying a person's sexual orientation cannot be changed.

In the Midwest alone, Catholics are evenly divided on the issue of same-sex marriage -– with 46% in favor, 47% against.

Opinion: GOP support for same-sex marriage growing

Related story: Both sides re-energized for upcoming same-sex marriage fight

Like Jim Smith, Michelle LaFrance is a Catholic who has also taken the bold step against the church in support of marriage equality.

"I remember thinking 'wow, maybe I shouldn't [remain a Catholic],' " LaFrance said. Ultimately they've remained with the Catholic faith, citing its many positive aspects including going to church. It's an important weekly ritual for LaFrance, her husband and their three kids.

"The Catholic Church, despite the media [attention] it typically gets, does a lot of great things, a lot of great social justice," LaFrance said. She noted the church "feeds the poor, houses the homeless, takes care of the abused."

The LaFrance family belongs to the Church of St. Margaret Mary in the Minneapolis suburb of Golden Valley, a congregation which LaFrance describes as fairly progressive. She says the majority of her fellow parishioners agree with her stance on same-sex marriage.

But when LaFrance hears the archdiocese telling people how they should think about it, she can't help but sometimes feel like less of a Catholic.

"I don't think anybody - whatever their religious denomination - whole-heartedly follows every single rule down to the letter."

Related story: U.S. history of same-sex marriage

On the other side of the debate stands Dave Deavel.

Although he agrees with LaFrance to an extent, he says he believes there are certain pillars of the Catholic faith that people should follow. One of those is the church stance that marriage should remain between one man and one woman.

"The whole point of what the church teaches is to form people's consciences," Deavel says.

For Deavel, his wife and their five children, attending church is so important they strive to go multiple times a week.

He's active with Minnesota for Marriage, which supports of the same-sex-marriage ban, and has written various blog posts on the topic for the Minnesota Catholic Conference.

Asked whether he believes a person can be "less of a Catholic" for disagreeing with the church, Deavel says the Vatican "doesn't really have a certain category for 'less of a Catholic.' "

"But they certainly don't represent what the church teaches," he said. "Is it a spiritual problem? I think yes."

Opinion: The secret gay agenda

In a written statement the MCC said groups such as Catholics for Marriage Equality "do not have any right to call their organizations 'Catholic.'"

In the past, the conference has issued statements accusing Catholics for Marriage Equality of trying "to confuse Catholics and the public about authentic church teaching" on marriage.

"Catholics for Marriage Equality MN attempts to convince Catholics that they can be in good standing with the church and oppose church teaching about human sexuality and marriage, which centers on the complementarity of the sexes and the mutual self-gift of loving spouses in marital union," said an MCC statement.

The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis declined CNN's request for an interview, but it agreed with sentiments expressed by the Minnesota Catholic Conference.

Does church doctrine make it impossible for same-sex marriage supporters to be true Catholics?

"There is no judgment intended about an individual's 'Catholicity' or 'Catholic-ness,' " says MCC spokeswoman Jessica Zittlow.

Minnesota's November ballot proposal to ban same-sex marriage isn't an amendment against LGBT individuals, say the MCC and the St. Paul and Minneapolis Archdiocese. Instead, they say it should strictly be viewed as an amendment supporting traditional marriage.

For ex-priest Jim Smith, grappling with the issue has been difficult - a personal struggle that extends to the heart of his faith.

The inner conflict between what Smith believes is right and his love for the church has pushed him to consider leaving the Catholic religion altogether.

In the end, Smith vows he will stay. "It's in my bones."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 2012 Election • Catholic Church • Christianity • Faith • Minnesota • Politics • Polls • Same-sex marriage

soundoff (2,849 Responses)
  1. John

    WOULD MUSLIMS ???? Would Jews, buddhist or hindu.... What is the point ? ANOTHER wedge between people?

    June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Bob

      I'm pretty sure most Jews and Buddhists could care less about Gay marriage. I don't know about Hindus. It's not a wedge. A wedge is the Church saying the universe revolves around the Earth and killing everyone who doesn't agree with their views.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
  2. nelly

    What does the bible say NT( Romans 1:26-28 For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due) OT (Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Random

      This is a good opportunity to say Whooooaaaaa Nelly.......
      The bible also describes being gay to be bad in the same context that shellfish is bad..............I bet you love shellfish.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      And what does it say about disobedient children?
      Eating shellfish or pork?
      Divorce?
      Wearing clothing made from two materials?
      Men cutting their beards or women cutting their hair?
      Owning slaves?

      And many many more biblical laws you have discarded or made excuses for because they are inconvenient...

      June 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • SteakAndRoses

      In addition to stating that any man that lie with another man shall be put to death (20:13), Leviticus has some other directives:
      Leviticus 20:09 states that anyone who curses their father or mother shall be put to death.
      Leviticus 20:10 states that anyone who commits adultery shall be put to death.
      So are you on-board with those too or are we just cherry-picking the passages we like today? In for a penny, in for a pound as they say.....

      June 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Nelly – your problem, like most fundiot nutters, is that you think we are a theocracy. We aren't. Your god has no legal standing in our secular laws. Sorry.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • Heinz Doofenshmirtz

      Who cares what the bible says. It's fiction.

      June 20, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Can You Do This

      Tell you what, Nelly, if you can prove to us that YOU and your family follow each and every one of the following Scriptures to a tee ALWAYS First, and that you likewise teach them to others urging them to also follow them, we might not be so apt to think that you just might be prejudiced, close-minded, and sadly misinformed about Gay people.

      EXODUS 21:7-8 (KJV
      EXODUS 35:2 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 11:10-11 (KJV
      LEVITICUS 11:41-43 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 19:19 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 19:27 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 19:28 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 20: 9-10 (KJV)
      LEVITICUS 21:18-20 (KJV)
      1 CORINTHIANS 14:34 - KJV

      Go to your Bible and look up each and every one of these Scriptures and then tell God that you follow EACH and Every One of them before you can single out just one Scripture and point your finger at your neighbor! Can you do that, Nelly? Um? Huh?

      June 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
  3. Leftcoastrocky

    Can true Catholics stay in the Church despite all of the pedophilia by the priests and the cover ups by the bishops (and the pope)?

    June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
  4. Colin

    Directly causing the deaths of millions in poor, AIDS infested countries by opposing condom use, sure.

    Allowing priests to molest little children for generations, until forced to stop by litigation and public pressure, sure.

    But supporting gay marriage, now that's a tough one.......

    June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • UrAverageJoe

      Priceless! lol

      June 20, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
  5. Theresa

    I'm catholic and support the G&L community.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Random

      So if you support the G&L community and the catholic church defines that as not okay.......wouldn't you then be either no longer a Catholic and now just a christian or minimally a Catholic living in sin forever????? How does that work. I support the G&L community too but i'm unclear on how you define yourself to be Catholic. The pope wouldn't call you Catholic.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • APersona

      Theresa, same here.

      June 20, 2012 at 3:46 pm |
  6. r

    probably get around to it when they arent bangin the alter boys

    June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
  7. Storms

    What most of the so-called religious seem to forget is that Jesus said 'Come to me' with his arms wide open. What i see is such hatred and dislike of anyone or anything who isn't exactly like they are and who only believes what they believe. They use faith to exclude and to excuse their hatred.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Heinz Doofenshmirtz

      That is so correct. These people erroneously associate religion with God. If the God they describe exists, he would rain on all religions parades.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
  8. Bob

    Why would anyone practice a religion whose basic tenets they don't believe ?

    June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Random

      Thank You!!!!!!! Not only a religion (Christianity ) but furthermore join a suborganization (Catholicism) of that religion which actively stands against your beliefs?

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      It's like this:

      Child born gay into Catholic household. Grows up knowing he/she's different but not sure really why. Indoctrinated into the church so they believe the church is the only way to salvation. Struggle with what they believe are inner demons for decades as they try to find a place in the world where they fit but also can reconcile their indoctrinated belief of salvation only coming from the Catholic church. After years of hiding and decpetion they come out and a huge weight is lifted off their shoulders, no more cloak & dagger. It ends with them asking the really important question once they have come out which is "If i'm born this way, why can't I join whatever religion I want? Maybe it's the religious position that was flawed, not me...

      June 20, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • APersona

      There is so, so much more to any religion than whether or not it supports gay marriage.

      June 20, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
  9. bubba

    OF COURSE CATHOLICS BACK GAY MARRIAGE..THEY ALSO THINK ITS OKAY FOR PRIESTS TO MOLEST LIL KIDS TOO...YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK TO MY STOMACH AND YOU WILL NEVER CONVINCE ME ITS OKAY!!

    June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Julie

      Where do you get off buddy? Catholics DO NOT think it is okay to molest children and believe that anyone guilty of doing so deserve to be punished. Of course with a name like "Bubba", I seriously doubt you have the ability to comprehend the Catholic religion and people like YOU, make me sick!

      June 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
  10. Alan

    And, Catholic or not, when it comes to our civil laws, everyone should realize the bad outcomes of allowing majorities to vote on the rights of minorities.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      Which is why we have a constltution that is supposed to protect the minorities from the majorities that just don't care or even hate the minority. The supreme court will side with the constltution and protect gay rights as they should in a secular society which is what America was intended to be from the start, but got a bit diverted by bigoted special interests.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
  11. edsr of Dallas

    I am a strong Roman Catholic and my beliefs are strong and unwavering but when it comes to this issue I say let the chips fall where they may....this is a personal issue and must be dealt with on a personal basis!

    June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Sam

      So you are saying the church should stay out of politics on this issue?

      June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Placate

      What would happen if Ed Jr. came out to you tomorrow and introduced you to his fiancee, John.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • fred

      The church should stay out of politics on all issues. They are the first ones to cry out that government is interfearing with their religion, but are unable to grasp that they want to interfear with government. Every day it sounds more like radical muslims than the catholic church which I grew up with.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Mass Debater

      "The church should stay out of politics on all issues."

      Yes, they should. And if they don't they can lose their tax exempt status. If you hear your priest or pastor telling you which side to vote for in an upcoming election they have just broken the law.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • Random

      I don't understand this stance. It is a personal issue......sure. The thing is, the Catholic church is a branch off of a religion. So whereas you could be Christian and take your stance of it's a personal issue, the Catholic church is an organization not a religion. So if the organization says that being gay or supporting G&Ls is wrong then it's no longer a personal issue for its members. You choose to be a member or you don't. If you support G&L, the church would say you aren't a Catholic (thus you don't exactly stand strong) but you could still be Christian.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
  12. bubba

    YO

    June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
  13. clubschadenfreude

    "truth Catholic" is as worthless a phrase as "true Christian". Tere is no way to know who has the "right" answer on what their god "really wants" at all, and there is no evidence for this god nonsense in the first place. Each Catholic and each Christian is sure that *they* are the true ones but none of them can to the miracles promised by their supposed savior or show that this imaginary god favors them above the others.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Veritas

      Look uo Jack Traynor and Gabriel Gargam – 2 miracles of Lourdes. Look up Our Lady of Fatima and the miracle of the sun.

      And WHEN you've read the miracle of the sun, don't spout that BS that 70,000 witnesses were all brainwashed Catholics. 90+% of the 70,000 were communists and atheists [Portugal was an Communist/Atheist country at that time] In fact the reporter who recorded the events was an Atheist. After this miracle Portugal became a Catholic country.

      As Isaac Newton, great scientist AND Christian said:
      "Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the exact amount of light and heat. That did NOT happen by chance."

      June 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
  14. howard

    Two men have never in the history of the world created a baby together naturally. Now we are going to give gays rights to adopt kids. The thought of it makes me sick. That poor kid might get great parenting from the couple, but thats not the issue. Children in their school will pick that kid apart ruining his self confidence and turning him into another suicide statistic or have total social issues.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Tryclyde

      You sound really stupid.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Not All Docs Play Golf

      No, Howard, only kids of parents like you will "pick that kid apart" at school.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • clubschadenfreude

      and why will children pick another apart because of his parents? Because of the hatred taught to them by their own parents. Nice crocodile tears there.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Bob

      Yea. We should just euthanize the kids. Yea... Reduce the population a little. Leave some jobs for the rest of us.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • howard

      You got to be kidding me. A man and a women are the only two people that can make a baby together. Two men or two women raising a child makes me sound stupid? The percentages of that kid not having a rough time are not higher? If that makes me sound stupid then I feel bad for you

      June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Two men have never in the history of the world created a baby together naturally. Now we are going to give gays rights to adopt kids. The thought of it makes me sick. That poor kid might get great parenting from the couple, but thats not the issue. Children in their school will pick that kid apart ruining his self confidence and turning him into another suicide statistic or have total social issues."

      Obviously you were to lazy to do your homework on this issue. Social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

      Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Bob

      Howard is correct the other kids are vicious to the child with two daddy's. I see it everyday. The kids end up totally screwed up. It's a fact.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • howard

      Parents? Give me a break. You dont remember being in 5th or 6th grade? Kids are brutal too each other. That kid with two dads is going to get eaten alive.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      howard, I know a number of children who have gay parents. They're happy, bright, and well-adjusted. They don't appear to be bullied at school for any reason.

      But you can always hope, can't you? You sound like the sort who'd have a bully for a kid.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Jim5

      The risks seem to be associated more with bullying than same gender parents.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Tryclyde

      Feel bad for me then, you sound stupid.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • Ghost

      Howard,
      You should stop writing on this subject... for your own sake.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • LOL Religion

      Then feel bad for me howie, because, yeah, it does make you sound really stupid. Not to mention hateful and bigoted.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • David L.

      So, the entire basis for your argument is that we should outlaw things that children will use to pick-on other kids. Let's outlaw glasses and make contacts mandatory. If you're redheaded child, your parents should be forced to dye your hair another, "natural" color. If you're an obese kid, you should be forced into government run 'fat-camps'.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • DB

      Ah, yes...gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt because other people are intolerant. But not you, of course...you're not intolerant, you're just worried about the kids. How convenient for you, you're denouncing gays and you've managed to convince yourself that you're doing it out of compassion. You sound just like the "compassionate" racists who didn't understand "why would someone want to move to a neighborhood where they're not welcome? I'm not a racist, I'm not going to burn a cross on your lawn, but I know some other people in the neighborhood will so I really think you'd be better off somewhere else."

      Whether or not they'll make great parents isn't the issue? Oh, how wrong you are. That is the ENTIRE issue.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • UrAverageJoe

      That's absolute crap and if you bothered to look it up, you'd know that. So, you are either ignorant or deliberately lying. And, even if it were true, you're just saying that since you've taught your children to hate and be abusive, other children should be denied a loving home. Truly sad and unchristian of you.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Frank

      No connection between same gender parents and suicide risk in children, self-esteem issues, or any other known risk factor has been found in any peer reviewed study conducted by a non-partisan agency or researcher.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • howard

      I can't believe how many left wing idiots are on this site.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • DB

      "The percentages of that kid not having a rough time are not higher? If that makes me sound stupid then I feel bad for you"

      It makes you sound stupid because you apparently believed that was a legitimate argument.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Frank

      Science...because only 'left wing idiots' resort to it before going with what a pundit says.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • howard

      Hate to break the news to you, but your stats you want me to look up are BS. Kids with two dads or two moms gets picked apart buy bullies. All your little stats are bs and just thrown into a story. Step into the real world. You give gays an inch and they take a mile. We are talking about such a small percentage of our country. Its a joke

      June 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Tom

      It sounds like you have some repressed feelings on this issue.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "Howard is correct the other kids are vicious to the child with two daddy's. I see it everyday. The kids end up totally screwed up. It's a fact."

      The experts have proven you wrong. The thing you have to ask yourself is how these bullies get their bad information about gays to begin with, it's coming from their uneducated parents who are teaching them intolerance. Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."

      June 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • tommy

      what kids? i do not know any kids these days that would act like that. kids these days are the most accepting of anyone because gays are everwhere – and its perfectly normal. maybe there is a kid or 2 out in the country somewhere who have intollerant parents who put those beliefs into their children. the intollerant parents who are raising their children to be close minded and intollerant to others dont understand how bad they are screwing up their kids. people are born gay. thats like thinking you are better than someone cause your hair is blond and theirs is brown. get a life.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ah. I see. So because you went to elementary school and got as far as 6th grade, we should all just take your word for it and ignore the 'stats'?

      You sound like a moron.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • YeahRight

      "All your little stats are bs and just thrown into a story."

      No, there are hundred of thousands of experts that disagree with you. 😉

      June 20, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Frank

      ...add the Child Welfare League of America to that list.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Jen

      It was not too long ago that kids with single parents were picked on. Now it is more socially acceptable. It will happen over time with gay parents too.

      I think you are just pretending you are tolerant Howard.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Tom

      Howard isn't pretending to be tolerant he is embracing his bigoted nature.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You bring up the percentage, howie. Since it's so small, why do you care? It's unlikely anyone who's gay will acquaint themselves with you or expose their children to yours anyhow. I'm straight and I wouldn't want anything to do with you.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • sam

      Howard, everyone telling you you're wrong doesn't mean they're liberal – it means you're wrong. I know that's hard for you, because in your little world you're always right. You sound like a fool. Give it up.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • DB

      "Hate to break the news to you, but your stats you want me to look up are BS. Kids with two dads or two moms gets picked apart buy bullies."
      --------

      So you have your ideological belief, and you refuse to listen to anybody who might show you some scientific facts that might contradict your beliefs.

      Clearly it's a waste of time to discuss this with you any further. You have renounced the use of logic. I can't reason you out of a position that you didn't reason yourself into, and I'm not going to make a fool of myself by trying. Enjoy your dogma.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • PushingBack

      No Howard, you sound stupid for a number of reasons. Kids get picked on about a lot of things. Are you going to eliminate all things that they can get picked on about? Guess what – kids will come up with new things. But the reality that you missing is that kids now days are not going to see this as materially different. Not unless they are conditioned to do so.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • PushingBack

      "I can't believe how many left wing idiots are on this site."

      We see your true colors, shining through...

      June 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • Allied

      There are several straight people who cannot or will not produce children naturally. Should they not be allowed to marry? Many children are the victims of separation, divorce, death, mothers who don't even know who the baby's father is, etc. In any case, they are being raised without benefit of a mother or a father. Should those children be removed from their homes to fit your implied qualification of a "family?" So many questions that you have opened up and so very few answers you have provided.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
  15. Alan

    Faithful Catholics also accepted Galileo and Copernicus well before the official Church did. Throughout much of the RC church's history, the laity – who ARE the Church – were well ahead of what would eventually become official Church positions. The critical study of Scripture and worship in vernacular languages are 2 of the 20th c. examples.
    Elsewhere, in 1977, divorce became permissible in Brazil, though the authorities of the RC church said it would lead to the downfall of the country and households, etc. – no such thing happened.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • shirleyujest

      The people are the church, I agree, the church will never be perfect because humans run it, but it is still his church, the one he started and gave to Peter, so I am there. I have been taught since I was little, that in the Catholic church you are not really married unless you were married in the church. So I really can't understand the big deal here. Gays will never be allowed to marry in the Catholic church, so what does it matter. If they want to marry in the civil arena, who cares. It doesn't offend me as a catholic, they have not married into a covenant with God, remember that's what we catholics are taught and the covenant can't be broken unless one person dies. That's how REAL catholics view marriage.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
  16. cnnmembuh

    Why does the Church need to endorse gay marriage? I don't begrudge gay partners the same legal and social rights as anybody else, but the Church will not be bullied into placing its imprimatur on a practice which, just like hetero illicit activities, runs counter to basic moral principles.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • clubschadenfreude

      oh yes, the basic moral priniciples of the Church. Hiding criminals, hating people for what they are, etc. The RCC is fantastic for getting morality long after everyone else has it, being drug along kicking and screaming about how much "truth" they have but then finally admitting that they were wrong. Their god sure mumbles a lot it seems for as many times as the truth of the Church became garbage.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • PushingBack

      Agreed but then they should just stay out of it. Don't give it your blessing but don't condemn it either. If you want to believe it's a sin then fine, but it is not your sin!

      June 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
  17. Doc Vestibule

    Would you ask a blind man his opinion about rainbows?
    Then why listen to celibate men's opinions about relationships and se.x.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • cnnmembuh

      Are you saying you can only think through your penis?

      June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Jen

      I think Doc is saying that it would be pretty stupid to get marriage advice from someone that doesn't even date......

      June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • cnnmembuh

      Are you also suggesting that an unmarried clinical therapist would be unqualified to give marital advice?

      June 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • Jen

      I certainly wouldn't go to one for marriage counseling (unless he/she had been in a long-term relationship). Just like the last person I would obtain marital advice from would be a priest.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
  18. chrism

    God made marriage for man and wife. Every Christian should stand for protecting the only God-given right to marriage in a country where we hold these truths to be self-evident that rights are inalienable because and solely because they were given by our Creator.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Ghost

      Umm, There is almost certainly no god. So I would like to know how you know what it thinks.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • RamblinLonghorn

      All men are created equal chrism. You don't get to pick and choose which people are more equal.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • chrism

      Umm, I never said I know what God, who most certainly exists, thinks. I do, however, know what He told us.

      Jesus said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? Matthew 19:4-5

      June 20, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • chrism

      All men and women are created by God, RamblinLonghorn. You don't get to redefine what God made.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • todd in DC

      Chrism, does that mean you are for polygamy? Because the bible is certainly for it.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      Marriage pre-dates the Old Testament.

      If you want to discriminate against others in order to please your god, take the licensing of marriage out of the hands of the government

      June 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • PushingBack

      How ironic that the people that came to America came here to get away from people like you.

      June 20, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
  19. Not All Docs Play Golf

    Just think, when people die and don't go to some afterlife that they have been promised growing up, if they adhere to some religious faith all their lives, what a grand waste of time and effort all of their church-going will prove to have been, as opposed to putting all of that time and energy into performing secular works of humanitarian good.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Joe Bob

      How else could the holier than dowel look down their noses at everyone else?

      June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • chrism

      Doc, in the time it took you to write your mindless attack on others, millions of Christians and catholics world wide were doing countless works of humanitarian good. They do them out of love for others, and do them with thanks to the God who gave them the hands, hearts, minds and all gifts needed to do so.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, baloney, chrism. They do them because they are doing what's commanded of them and because doing so makes them feel good.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Kevin

      You have no proof there isn;t an after life I have no proof there is I just happen to believe there is and enjoy living my life as though it counts for something ie believing in the Christian God and giving back my time and money because I believe God has blessed me with both.If i'm wrong and there is no afterlife I wont know anyway if your wrong ?

      June 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • shirleyujest

      If your theory is true, they won't know anyway because there is no afterlife according to you, so what does it matter whether you chose to believe in God when you were alive. If you believe there is no spirit or consciousness outside of the body then again it won't matter what you thought about when you were "alive" as it ends at the time of death for you. Every single person on this earth has a genetic code, until someone can prove to me the existence of a code occurring naturally in the material world (ie: nature) I'm gonna have to go with DNA being a sure fire example of intelligent design. I believe that I'm going to get to meet who or whatever made me....

      June 20, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
  20. answer is cold

    a true Religion would evolve ...think about it.

    June 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • Joe Bob

      a religion based on truth would not need to unlike those we the world around pray too make believe gods...

      June 20, 2012 at 2:33 pm |
    • John

      A true religion would be rational.

      June 20, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.