home
RSS
July 3rd, 2012
04:45 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Tuesday, July 3

By Laura Koran, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: Busing nuns cover 2,700 miles to rally in D.C. against Ryan budget
A group of nuns who took to the road 2,700 miles ago reached Washington Monday carrying the same message they began with: "Reasonable revenue for responsible programs." Standing in front of the United Methodist Building near the U.S. Capitol, the "Nuns on the Bus," as they have billed themselves, rallied an excited crowd with stories from the road and a call to action for future protests to protect social programs. Starting in Iowa, the nuns traveled through nine different states in a trip ended right outside the Capitol building.

Tweet of the Day:

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

The New York Times: Israel’s Holocaust Museum Softens Its Criticism of Pope Pius XII
Yad Vashem, Israel’s Holocaust museum and memorial, on Sunday changed the wording of an exhibit on Pope Pius XII’s actions during World War II to soften its criticism of the pope over a subject that has long divided Jews and the Vatican.

The Huffington Post: Presbyterians To Vote On Gay Marriage, Divestment, At General Assembly
When thousands of members of the Presbyterian Church (USA) convene in Pittsburgh this week for their denomination's biennial gathering, they will debate more than 800 proposals on topics ranging from doctrinal statements to the church's role in aiding the nation's economic recovery. But one of the most contentious social issues in the U.S. - and one that has caused deep divisions within the 1.9-million member church - is expected to dominate the discussion, which begins Saturday and ends July 7.

Religion News Service: Mormons’ love-hate relationship with America
As Americans celebrate the nation’s founding, some Mormons may outdo their neighbors in fireworks, fanfare and frenzy to express their outsized patriotism. Love of America, they believe, stretches beyond appreciation and gratitude. It is theological, prescribed in holy writ. When it comes to American exceptionalism, Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah, recently said, “Mormons sort of have an extra chromosome.”

The Telegraph: Hotel offers guests electronic Bibles
From today, all 148 rooms at the Hotel Indigo will contain a Kindle e-reader pre-loaded with a copy of the Bible. The hotel is claiming to be the first in Britain to offer such a service. Guests are also permitted to download a copy of any other religious text – to the value of £5 or less – during their stay.

Quote of the Day:

Our midlife quest for a new way to make a positive difference in people’s lives and a lifelong commitment to pushing the envelope to help others made this the obvious path to follow.

Rabbi Jeffrey Kahn told Tablet Magazine on his decision to open a medical marijuana dispensary in Washington, DC. Nine years ago, a resolution by the Union for Reform Judaism pushed for “congregations to advocate for the necessary changes in local, state, and federal law to permit the medicinal use of marijuana and ensure its accessibility for that purpose.”

Opinions of the Day:

The Toledo Blade: Newspaper accused of pushing religion on readers
Blade Ombudsman Jack Lessenberry defends the paper’s coverage of religion after receiving complaints from a reader that the paper “continues to push religion down the throats of its readers.”

The Washington Post: Record-setting heat wave, severe storms mark summer of 2012: Is this hell?
Former president of the Chicago Theological Seminary and Washington Post contributor Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite considers the connection between recent weather trends and imagery in the book of Revelation. She writes that perhaps “we need the vision of the healing of the planet that concludes the biblical book of Revelation in order to renew our efforts to save God’s creation from twisted devastation.”

Join the conversation…

CNN: Despite fights about its merits, idea of American exceptionalism a powerful force through history
It’s safe to say the first European arrivals to New England wouldn’t recognize today’s debate over whether America is exceptional. Though the United States wouldn’t be born for another century and a half, the Puritans arriving in the early 1600s on the shores of what would become Massachusetts firmly believed they were on a mission from God. In other words, they had the exceptional part down pat.

- CNN's Laura Koran

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (240 Responses)
  1. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things.

    July 3, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • Troll

      Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll

      July 3, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • you might be an atheist if

      you only have a one word vocabulary

      July 4, 2012 at 7:54 am |
    • You might be a troll if

      you post the same thing multiple times on multiple blogs

      July 4, 2012 at 6:57 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      July 5, 2012 at 10:40 am |
  2. PumpNDump

    We are a SECULAR nation founded by men who feared the ignorant, religious, unwashed masses.
    The earth is 4.5 BILLION years old, NOT 6000 years old.
    Dinosaurs existed, just not with man.
    Evolution, and Global Climate change, are scientific facts and our ancestors are over 6 million years old.
    No, the world won't end concurrent with the Mayan calendar.
    The whole "god" & "jesus" thing: myths invented by man and is no more relevant or accurate than the Greek/Roman gods, Hinduism, Mithrasian faiths, etc. 98% of all christianity is LIBERALLY lifted from preceding "pagan" faiths (oh, the irony!).
    There is NO peer reviewed, legitimate academically accepted proof that "jesus" ever existed and you'd think the most important "person" in christianity would have proof of life.
    The parting of the Red Sea, Noah's Ark, "jesus" rising from the dead, etc......all myths.
    Abortion? That issue was decided with Roe vs. Wade, get over it.

    I don't care what you believe provided you keep ALL religion out of public schools, science & academia, foreign and domestic policy, laws & jurisprudence. KEEP IT OUT OF OUR LIVES. FOAD.

    July 3, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      That's what you think and believe.

      In the end,none us really know for sure.Hence why faith is well faith.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:53 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      How were your summer school classes, Lies?

      July 3, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
  3. sun worshipper

    Come one come all, see the fantasticly real god! feel its touch, warmth, the burn, feel the god that you have been without for so very long! come with me and you will see a true sight to behold more then anyother and the best part is, no special offerings are needed, no place of whorship, just an open hand of life and death. This is the one true god as we know any form of gods on earth. This is the one and only creation that can bring life and death by simple existence. It knows more about the history of our planet then our planet itself. It is what scorned the jews in the dessert not an invisible creation of man! This is what people see when they claim to have seen the light! Only two special days a year, and we get a bonus show of dissappearance and reappearance every so often. My God has shown me the path that lay before me, and said not to me to follow one or the other but instead left it upon me to make my own choice of which way to go. The most important thing about my God is that is has children, but they are not to be whorshipped as they are rivals in the cosmos for the love of my God. The closer you are to my God is not always the safest however, as is being the furthest away. Both have a negitive affect. My God knows math, and science, most importantly knows balance, and teaches without teaching. But my God does scorn the ignorant! Come and whorship with me that which has been whorshipped by the greatest people ever known, whorshipped the longest by the most people in history. Come feel the warmth of my God, and know what it is to live with God always there to shining a light on you. I call my God the SUN. Others have called it Aton the sun disk, but that was 3000 years ago in Egypt, even then the whorship of the SUN was an ancient one long forgotten by the Eyptians at that time. E ven if you wish not to follow belief is not needed as proof of my God is there, all around you, in every thing you touch shows its power.Oh and my God doesn't do to anyone differently then anyother, all shall recieve equal treatment. Go and be in the light.
    i stand by my SUN. I know that there are a great deal more stars in the universe then the number you can state, but mine is the one that gives me, us, warmth, air, food, drink, basically – life- and so as i stated its MY GOD – THE SUN... i stated that there may be lesser gods on an earthly realm, but mine created the earth, and keeps it living. I preach its energy, and by transferrence becomes us and all living things on this planet. When it dies is when the memory of it begins if we as a species still exist, but long before its implosion it will engulf the earth during an expansion of the star, called a red gaint, just before going super nova, then finally poof- black hole lives for a split second, then again poof! I have an ok/whatever understanding of stars. The logic of whorshipping our SUN is beyond arguement, calling it a GOD is illogical but nessesary to gain a following as to move the civilization past the moronic idea of god as its currently understood.
    Oh my God can power a car so you have no need for earth based fuel. My God gives its power freely and to all creatures, we are stupid to not use it!
    using the law of conservation of matter and energy, the energy given off by the sun simply transferrs to us thru food and warmth, but the whorshipping goes beyond that. if the planet when it is at its perihelion were even just a few hundred feet closer to mars we would be very cold all the time, if the planet when it is at its aphelion was closer to the sun by equal distance, very very hot. so everything points to the sun as the true life giving object to whorship if you were to whorship anything- logically speaking!
    fear not my friends for all answers can be answered..
    have no fear, fake gods can't hurt you nor tell you what to do. the only provider of life and all energies that make up life on this planet is , THE ALMIGHTY SUN! no earthly man nor man's creation can take away from fact! May the Light of the ALL POWERFUL SUN light your path and lead you towards the truth.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
  4. myweightinwords

    @Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical, You said:

    Yet atheists also do the punishing for believing in God.Let's see many wish to outlaw religion,trying to force that cannot teach religion in schools and limiting one to only worship at home and in church.One could not speak about their beliefs in public.If that becomes law MANY would be punished.

    First off, no one is trying to outlaw religion, no one is trying to make it illegal to speak about your beliefs in public. Here in the US we have that little doc.ument called the const.itution, which avows the right of all to speak freely. Do not mistake holding you accountable for your words to denying you the right to speak.

    Second, your religion does not belong in a public school funded with government money. If you wish your children to learn your religion in school, put them in a private school run by your church. Worship, such as it is, can not be funded by the government. Period.

    And for the record, it isn't just atheists who insist, since most of the lawsuits that I am aware of involving schools and religion were filed by other theists.

    So if one day atheists somehow get a law passed limiting the freedom of the people to only worship at home/churchs or they can't speak about their beliefs at all well don't speak like atheists don't punish others for believing.

    This is never going to happen. You want to stand on a street corner and worship your god? Go right ahead. If you have others gather, you best make sure you have a permit, but you're still free to do so. And make sure you're not blocking traffic, because the rest of us would like to get to work on time.

    Just keep your religion out of the government, and the government out of your religion.

    In fact many atheists do punish religious believers in a different way.

    Again, don't mistake dissent and argument for punishment. Christians are still the majority in this country. The minority, no matter how vocal, can not persecute the majority. Numbers just don't work that way.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It's a persecution complex. Freedom to many of the fundamentalists means freedom only for them, and not for anyone else. Once someone takes them to task for the intolerance, hate, or just plain lies that they say, they want to scream persecution and hide behind their religion.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      HG, it is an interesting thing, to be certain, at least from a psychological and sociological stand point.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It's fear. They fear not being able to influence what they want to, and knowing that there are people who don't agree with them on very fundamental aspects of their world view (don't believe in a god, doesn't take the bible seriously at all) makes it feel like an attack on their very core.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
  5. Cal

    I know I've already said this, but I think it bears repeating. Why does it matter if there is a God or not if you cannot prove there are consequences to not believing? Suppose tomorrow some random scientist proved with no doubt evolution was false. That does not prove eny particular god is the one true God. A lot of people argue there has to be a Creater, but in generic terms. If a Christian uses the first mover arguement, it does not prove the Christian God is the one true God. So, personally, I'm more intersted in, if there is a God, why should I choose yours.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • hippypoet

      worship the sun... at least you really do owe our existence to it in a sense.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Prayer changes things

      You do not choose God, God chooses you.If God has not chosen you then it becomes you to seek God with your whole heart, mind and being.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • Lux

      Except that a random scientist won't disprove evolution. Origin of species is pretty much settled. Origin of life not so much.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Has God picked His favourite 144,000 jews yet?
      Time to get a yarmulke!

      July 3, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Prayer changes things
      "You do not choose God, God chooses you"

      Is that what the voices in your head told you? or do you have something other than the works of man to tell you this?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Cal,
      I suppose there are lots of reasons to worship God. My God is the only one. We have the bible that gives testimony of him. We have all the believers in recorded history who left their testimony. We have the testimony of all believers today. We have the physical evidence of creation. Just go outside and look around. What more do you need?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What evidence do you have that 'your God' is the only one? What evidence do you have that this universe was created by an invisible being?

      "Look around"? Sorry, that's not evidence of a god.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • Cal

      Prayer changes things, if I seek out God, will He show me which book to use? Believing in the wrong God has the same consequences as believing in no God, so even if I think there is a Creator, how will I know how to worship Him?

      July 3, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Robert Brown.
      You have tesimony.

      Tesimony comes from the greeks root tesify.
      They would sacrifice a male goat and those who would "testify" would hold onto the severed tesicles of the goat as "proof" that they were telling the truth.

      Tell me...when you testify, were you holding onto the testicles of a sacrificed goat?
      Those providing their opinion regarding their religion is not evidence that you have found the "one true" religion.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Cal

      Robert, "My God is the only one" is a bold statement. And "testimony" is really not something that can be measured. Members of every religion claim thier own "testimony" is proof of thier particular faith.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i'm telling you guys.. the sun.... its where its at! a few reasons – you can see it.... you can feel it... it can be tested and measured....and it is the reason there is life on this planet!

      July 3, 2012 at 2:15 pm |
    • Jesus

      "Prayer changes things"

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      July 3, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Cal

      Maybe I'll just try Bud Dry.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • hippypoet

      but the sun is warm! not so cuddly but so, abrahams god kid his son/self ....that should count for something...o yeah and i found a religion devoted to the sun and glenfiddich – are you interested?

      July 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Who invited me? & Cal
      There is one way you can find out for yourself in this life. Do you believe that there could be a God? If so, then you are like those Jesus called “ye of little faith”. You believe it is possible, but you need something more. The bible explains how to get what you need and I would be happy to share. Interested?

      July 3, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      It's the same crap of "believe first, then you'll be able to believe more. Just don't actually think about the logical inconsistencies, or the attrocities, or the blatant contradictions, just follow without questioning".

      Does that about sum it up Rob? Or do you color all of that and slap on "faith" as the magical sure all for intellectual dishonesty?

      July 3, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hello again HawaiiGuest, a friend of mine visited the islands. He brought back the most amazing pictures. Like anything else I am sure it is even more beautiful in person. What a wonderful example of Gods creation you live in.
      God does all the work, all we are called to do is sow seed. Faith doesn’t sound logical to us educated human beings. What you call atrocities are his judgment and wrath. I have seen some things posted that are touted as contradictions and I probably can’t explain them all but I can accept there are some things we don’t know. Question, by all means question. I do it all the time. Even get an answer on occasion.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • Cal

      It's a catch 22 apparently. So I have to honestly believe before my prayers for salvation will be considered sincere enough. I have, what I felt I did sincerely, prayed for some sort of revelation at times in the past. But accrding to believers I obviously didn't do it right. Like "Prayer changes things" put it, no one chooses God, I feel you can't choose what you believe. Robert, I doubt you could tomorrow choose to not be a Christian.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      For the lay people Robert's post translates thusly:

      "dodge, dodge, dodge"

      July 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Robert Brown
      I pity you. You think you have the answers in your little book created by mainly jewish authors, telling you that they know the answers to all. They were delusional, and you are a fool.
      The origins of the bible show that it was copied from other religions, the stories having been told long before they created your bible and your god.
      Man created god. Then made him look like us, gave him human emotions, even for a while, he had a wife,until they realized that there can only be one god, so they stopped worshipping gods wife. If you could objectively look at things with an open, reasonable and logical mind, you could see that religion only offers the rules and thoughts of men, that your one true religion should then have reached all of humanity throughout time (otherwise it would hardly be fair to not even give thousands of people who have never heard of your bible a chance) if it were "true".
      Looking at it all logically, you can't possibly think that yours is the one true religion. But of course you are lacking logic and so are more lost than you will ever know.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Cal,
      I suppose you are correct in a way. There is the whole free will verses predestination debate. Looking back on my own salvation experience, I did resist for a time, but finally surrendered. I don’t think I could have continued to resist. Possibly someone stronger could have, or not, how could we know?
      The bible does say that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This means that you can acquire more or stronger faith by hearing the word of God preached in the power of his holy spirit. So, since you are sincere about finding out for yourself, I would encourage you to go to your local church and hear Gods word. I am partial to Baptist, but as long as they preach that if you believe that Jesus died and rose again to reconcile you to God, you should be in a good place. Compare what the bible says to what they preach, if it doesn’t match go elsewhere.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:01 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      HawaiiGuest,
      How is it a dodge to say God does the work? Or, are you just looking for a more lively debate?

      July 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      @Robert

      When your answer to everything is "god", "god works in mysterious ways", "god does it", then yes it is a dodge, because it is a big fat non-answer. It has no explanatory power, and is a cop out for actually thinking for yourself on the subject at hand.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Who invited me?,
      While I appreciate it, please don’t be concerned, I will be ok. When I read your post I thought I wish the holy spirit would get a hold of this person for about 30, no 10, no 3, no even less than a second would be enough to change your heart and mind. Stranger things have happened.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      HawaiiGuest,
      Ok, I will try to do better. The subject at hand is if I choose a God why would I choose yours? Mine is the only one I know. How is that? Just kidding, well not really, but I don’t mean you any ill will.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:19 pm |
    • HawaiiGuest

      Well the subject I responded to was the circular reasoning of believing in order to believe. Having to look at something in a very specific way in oder to interpret it as evidence of god is a horrible way to determine the truth of a claim. Something that is innately true (gravity, physical existence) is not subject to any kind of subjective outlook. So why should what is supposedly the most important thing to know in the universe be subject to a subjective interpretation?

      July 3, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • Cal

      Robert, from your stance on the Bible, being that the Jews are God's chosen people, can they get to Heaven without accepting Jesus?

      July 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • wow

      Cal, that should be obvious. No, they can't. The Christian god changes his mind ... frequently. He's a moral relativist. He pulled the ol' bait-and-switch with the jews. Sucks for them.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      HawaiiGuest,
      Ok, yes, you are correct and I apologize. I jumped all the way to the top on the subject. Believe to believe, I wouldn’t put it like that but I understand where you are coming from, I think. If you wanted to learn about gravity wouldn’t you have to do certain things? I think the answer would be yes, so, by the same token if you want to learn about God you have to do certain things. Now he does have the power to reveal himself to you in such a way that nothing would ever cause you to question him again. He has done this for some, but I wouldn’t depend on it, as you say, it is the most important thing in the universe. Why do some believe and some don’t? I have no idea, it is a mystery. If you can say that God is a possibility wouldn’t you agree that you have some faith. I mean to even seek God wouldn’t you have to believe that he could be. At this level of faith I would agree with you that you have to believe to believe.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Cal,
      There is something in Revelations I think about a remnant 144k being saved. Jesus said no man comes to the father except by him. I believe that. If God made some other way then maybe those that adhere to it can explain. I can’t.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Robert, I may not believe as you do, but I must say that I admire your humility and self-restraint.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
  6. hippypoet

    based off the law of conservation of energy – energy may neither be created nor destroyed. Therefore the sum of all the energies in the system is a constant.

    we are part of that energy, obviously, and we each seem to have an individual consciousness correct? well what about considering this idea : as one energy one consciousness? even thou we are separate living creatures we share the same building blocks of life and energies....circle of life...IT IS TIME, rafiki – the lion king 🙂 and so my theory is our collective consciousness is what these whack jobs consider to be their god – of course you want you to be safe and imagine that we each are like the voices in your head when thinking about wether to do this or that – we are each that in our own way! a collective consciousness can't be tested except thru its effects on surrounding objects and living bodies – kinda like a black hole and thats a pun! 🙂

    any thoughts?

    July 3, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
  7. Prayer changes things

    Change is available within the multiple perimeters of the given

    July 3, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Change is also available when something costs $4.50 and you give them a $5

      July 3, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • Jesus

      "Prayer changes things"

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      July 3, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Tom... A dead body (the Universe) with five gun shots in the head (scientific evidence of the Big Bang) is a good enough evidence of a murderer involved (a Creator). Alternative theory may involve suggestion that the victim shot himself in the head five times (the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing).

      July 4, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
  8. Lucifer's Evil Twin

    boring

    July 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
  9. Who invited me?

    Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical
    I have a question for atheists:If you think God is murderous etc etc etc and he punished people by his laws,so tell me why humans do the same?

    The answer is actually quite simple. Since man created god, god will behave much as man does.
    It is classic personification of a concept,in this case, the unknown.
    God was created because "he" can be used to answer questions we do not have the answers to. God was created out of ignorance. It is confirmed by believers on these posts everyday. I continuously see posts that accept belief as fact, and see "proof" in the form of opinion. No one has proof to back up the Theory of god. Your own religion excludes it since it relies on "faith". You are not allowed to have proof, you just have to believe or you are eternally damned. People site line from the bible claiming again that it was written by god, which is the premise for proof, though you still can't show the proof of the theory of god existing in the first place.

    The bible is one of the biggest scams the world has ever known.

    July 3, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Atheism is the biggest scam of all.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      In what way is atheism a 'scam'? Is it asking you for donations?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:23 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Nope its the biggest scam because you claim to know without proof but hate when the religious claim to know the truth.

      You claim to know the truth yet you have never backed it up or proved it,biggest scam ever.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Lying? Does your mommy know you do that?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      How is that lying when most atheists admit "There is no God" but no real evidence has surfaced to prove it?

      You lie.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You say atheists "claim to know without proof". What do atheists "claim to know"?

      After you've read this question slowly, moving your lips if necessary, answer this one: what do believers claim to know without proof?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Now you're just boring.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      I know I know the truth hurts.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      .Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical
      Nope its the biggest scam because you claim to know without proof but hate when the religious claim to know the truth.

      You claim to know the truth yet you have never backed it up or proved it,biggest scam ever.

      There you go agian using your opinion as proof of your arguement.
      If you look at my post I claim we do not know. I offer no proof, yet you claim I do, therefore what I believe is a scam. Incorrect logic
      I claim that I BELIEVE there are no gods, yet I do not proclaim that that is truth because I do not know.
      You are proving my point quite perfectly though.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Atheists believe they are correct.They claim to know there is no God but never ever proved it with real scientific evidence supported by studies and research.Nothing proves what atheism is.A belief that requires faith not evidence to support it.Agnostics don't claim anything.Atheists do the claiming.

      Get it now? You think you unlocked the mystery of life,that life is just random mess of nothing but no evidence supports that stance on life.

      Follow me yet? Nothing has proven what any atheist believes.Not even the "No God" argument.

      so if you wish to deny it,call me names,throw a fit,be my guest.

      Just know not even you know.You have faith not logic not science just faith to "know" you are correct.But I've never heard you admit that.Why? scared?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Huebert

      @lies

      You don't seem to understand how evidence works. If your only criteria for believing something is that their is no evidence to disprove it you can believe in literally anything. Did you know that their is no evidence that the star Betelgeuse is not powered by a giant Energizer battery? It's not but their is no evidence to the contrary.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      I have faith but I cannot prove it.I admit that but why can't atheists? Think you are so high on the chain to do so?

      You hate how the religious claim to know and claim to be correct but..you do also.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Huebert... You don't know how the Universe (including the so called "laws of nature") came into existence but you DECLARE that it was NOT created... and you call this way of argument to be a proper one? How is it diefferent from the Biblical story about te Universe created in six days?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Admit what? That they don't know? Many admit exactly that. What is your problem?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Where did Huebert 'declare' that?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      But I never hear YOU say that Tom Tom.

      Afraid?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You can't read, then, dear. I've never claimed to know there is no god or that I know how the universe came to be. I simply contend that just because we don't know yet, and may never know, how it began, it does not follow that some invisible being created it. That's all.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Huebert

      @Thinker

      I declared no such thing. I describe the big bang, or moment of creation if you prefer, as the moment that the universe transitioned form an indescribable state, multidimensional, to the state it is presently in, 3 space and 1 time dimension. I do not know what caused this change.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You just made a claim.That life does not need a creator.YOU think it.That's not evidence.Sorry dear try again.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. You really do lie a lot, or else you are extremely deficient in reading comprehension. I made no such claim.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:54 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical
      "I have faith but I cannot prove it.I admit that but why can't atheists? Think you are so high on the chain to do so?

      You hate how the religious claim to know and claim to be correct but..you do also ".

      Again, jumping to unjustified conclusions in an attempt to bolster your arguement. I do not hate the religious, nor the point of view.
      I do hate when people claim to have truth when it is a belief. I make no such claims, never have. It is called objectivity.

      You keep clinging to the Theory of god.
      I will keep asking question for things I do not know. Sometimes the key to find the answer is asking the right question.

      Do not keep trying to put words in my mouth as your words do not fit.
      You only continue to prove my original point

      July 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      "It does not follow that some invisible being created it".

      lol sorry dear again stop lying.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What lie? The only one lying here is you, honey. You're lying about what others post, what their words mean, and most of all, you're lying about yourself.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Can't accept the truth?

      Its ok dear.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Huebert

      @Lies

      Incorrect. Life exist, their evidence for this. Their is no evidence for a supernatural creator. The logical as.sumption is that life does not require a supernatural creator.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      When you care to argue your point, whatever it is, with something remotely resembling intelligence, rather than just trolling, you might have something to post that's worth reading.

      I have better things to do than baby-sit you and assist you with your reading difficulties.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Huebert: " I do not know what caused this change."

      But you "KNOW" that this change WAS NOT caused by someone having the knowledge and technology to do it... Right?

      July 3, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Huebert: "Life exist, their evidence for this. Their is no evidence for a supernatural creator. The logical as.sumption is that life does not require a supernatural creator."

      Using the very same logic one can say: "The Sphinx exist. There is no evidence for its creator. The logical assumption is that the Sphinx does not require a creator." Do you see a flaw in this logic?

      July 3, 2012 at 6:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There IS evidence that people created the Sphinx. There is no evidence that a god created the universe. That doesn't mean there isn't one; there's just no evidence that shows there is one.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Tom... WHAT evidence you have about the people who created the Sphinx except the Sphinx itself? We know that people are CAPABLE of creating a structure like the Sphinx. We also do not see anyone around except us, humans, who can do it and then we conclude that it were humans who created the Sphinx. On the other hand, we know that humans CAN NOT create a planet, for example, and therefore, we conclude that is WE can not do it no one can.

      July 4, 2012 at 6:07 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Doofus, knock it off. You're the same knucklehead who insisted that no research performed by anyone is accepted on 'faith' unless we've performed the same research ourselves. It's ludicrous.

      You don't have any evidence that a god 'created' the universe.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • you might be an atheist if

      you can squeeze the insult "knucklehead" into a blog

      July 4, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • Thinker22

      Tom... When there is EVIDENCE (a dead body, for example) it is reasonable to assume that there was a murderer responsible for it. In our case, THERE IS EVIDENCE (the Universe we live in) and I'm saying that it is reasonable to assume that there was a Creator responsible. If you DO NOT believe that this is the case try to offer a more plausible alternative.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      A more plausible alternative than a giant fairy snapping its fingers?

      You don't seem to get it. I don't have to offer anything at all. There is no evidence that a supernatural being created anything at all. When you can offer some, by all means, alert the media. The universe is not evidence.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Thinker22

      Tom... Insulting your opponent in a debate is a (dirty) white banner of surrender saying "You're right and I hate it but I can do nothing about it. The best I can do is to insult you."

      Try to remember it the next time prior to insulting anyone.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you have no evidence. Thanks for playing.

      Have fun with your sock puppets, honey.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • truth be told

      I consider the universe compelling physical evidence.

      July 4, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Thinker22

      Tom... The existence of the Universe is as good as the existence of a dead body to be used as evidence. If you believe that a dead body can materialize somehow without a murderer involved you can also believe that the same is true for the Universe. I, however, look for a more plausible explanation.

      July 4, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • question

      Tom Tom have you had experience stealing pigs ?

      July 4, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      A dead body is evidence of a murder? If you find a dead body there MUST be a murderer? So people only die if someone kills them unlawfully? No one dies of natural causes?

      Wow, you're a real smart cookie, there, Stinker.

      July 4, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Tom... A dead body (the Universe) with five gun shots in the head (scientific evidence of the Big Bang) is a good enough evidence of a murderer involved (a Creator). Alternative theory may involve suggestion that the victim shot himself in the head five times (the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing)...

      July 4, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nice try at back-pedaling, moron.

      You lose.

      July 4, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
  10. Thinker23

    Every traditional religion is based on a set of unprovable beliefs explaining the world around us. Atheism is also based on a set of unprovable beliefs explaining the world around us. Traditional religions tell us that the world was CREATED by someone having the knowledge and power to do it. Atheism tells us that the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing. It's up to each and every one of us to decide which one of these two possibilities is more plausible.

    July 3, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wrong. Atheism does no such thing.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Wrong.atheism does.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • Clunker23

      Who created the creator? If you believe that the creator does not need to be created and just is then why does that not apply to the universe? These fallacious strawmen do nothing to further your argument.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @Makingbelieveyoureadthepost: Nope.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      If you limit your definition of nothing to the absence of matter, time and space,(the observable 3 dimensional universe) that might not be so accurate. While we are limited to not know how the big bang came about, there can be other "things" that are not space time or matter, basically "where" the big bang came from. When including these other "things" in the definition of the universe, it becomes possible that the universe has always existed. Just because there was no space, time or matter, does not mean there was nothing. One could of course interpret that as God also. (that is a really poor attempt at an explanation, but check out "A Universe from Nothing" by Kraus, if you are interested.)

      July 3, 2012 at 12:16 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      TomTomthesadangrytroll:yep.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
    • BRC

      An atheists believes that there are no gods. That's all there is to atheism.

      You can follow that up with, many atheists believe that the current form of the universe was form through the behavior of the physical laws that govern the universe, and their effect on the matter it contains, which was all set in motion due to an action or interaction between elements that we do not yet scientifically understand (but with sufficient research may one day learn), and until there is EVIDENCE to support the claim, there is no reason to believe that this innitial action came from a god.

      then compare that statement to what religions asserts- all powerful beings of unknown origins created the observable universe and all things in it, and see which is more reasonable.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope/Yep/Makingbelieveyoucanread: Atheism does not contend that the universe began from nothing. Atheism is simply a lack of belief that a god created it. Get over it, kiddo, and go back to watching your cartoons.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      mommy won't let me ;(

      July 3, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Good for her.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • Thinker23

      I don't know who created the Creator. This, however, does not mean that the Creator did not exist just like know knowing the parents of those cho designed and built the automobile you're driving does not necessarily mean that the individuals who designed and built the automobile did not exist. Further, the point about some "raw materials" being used to build the Universe does not make the denial of the Creator any more convincing. After all, the builders of the above mentioned automobile used some raw materials to make that automobile as well.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      We have evidence for people who created automobiles, NON for your "creator" of the universe.

      You need to change your name to non-thinker23.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • Huebert

      Atheism is not based upon a set of unproven beliefs. It is based upon evidence, observations, and reason. Once those fail most atheist say "I don't know". Religion can't admit ignorance, and that is due to its claim to being divinely inspired. After all what kind of divine being would leave out any information, or be incorrect.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm |
    • BRC

      @Thinker23,
      You can't think of the universe as a car, that's a horrible comparison. You have to think of the universe as an organism. IT grows and changes in ways that are comepletely internally driven.

      Quite simply, does a flower have a creator? No, it came together from the components contributed by other plants in a natural process, it is for all intents and purposes random, but because of its natural purpose and design very likely. No guiding hand was necessary. The same principle can be applied to the formation and developement of our known universe. Now, as of yet we don't know where those initial elements came from, but there is no reason to believe it was a god, and if it was, then you have to explain where that god came from.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "We have evidence for people who created automobiles..."

      Really? WHAT evidence of these people you have except the automobile? OK, you may visit the Toyota plant and make some photographs. Do you have evidence of people who created the Pyramids? The ONLY evidence of them are the Pyramids themselves. Similarly, the evidence of the Creator is his/her/their creation, the Universe.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, it isn't, Thinker. Change your screen name (again) to something more accurate, like Believer.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Huebert... Atheism is based on an UNPROVABLE belief that the Universe came into existence all by itself from nothing (or from some imaginary "raw materials" that came into existence from nothing and then somehow evolved into the Universe we live in).

      July 3, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Thinker23

      BRC... Do you REALLY belive that a flower can come into existence by "some RANDOM process"???

      July 3, 2012 at 12:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Try again. You're still incorrect. Atheists do not 'believe' there are gods. That's all. They don't 'believe' in an invisible hand creating a universe. They don't believe it came from 'nothing'. They don't believe. They don't claim to know.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
    • BRC

      @Thinker23,
      Are you somehow trying to claim that they don't? Flowers propegate using external forces for polenation- ie, they rely on having one gamete carried by a vector (most commonly an insect, sometimes an animal, but in many cases just the wind), and they release enough of that gamete that the odds favor it reaching the seed awaiting fertilization. There flowers that polinate using the wind... how is that not random? How did you think flowers are created?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • Thinker23

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son...

      So the atheists BELIEVE that God does not exist? If so how their beliefs differ from those saying that God exist?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nope. Try again. Read aloud if it helps.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Tom Tom has a hard time accepting the truth.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
    • Thinker23

      BRC... We have different ideas about the "randomness". I KNOW that flowers and all other living creatures are being created in accordance to a pretty complicated program coded in their DNA. You're telling me that the factors starting this process (merging of two or more cpecific type cells) may vary.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The moment you post some, alert the media, nope/yep/thinker/makingwater.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • BRC

      @Thinker23,
      I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Yes, evey organism has its own unique DNA, and in many complex organism, the next generation is formed by merging to haves of existing DNA to form a completely new sequence (many organisms however simply reproduce by slitting and replocating a single strand of DNA). But how DNA works has nothing to do with my point. My point is that, there are many organisms that propogate and develope without any concious action, or any outside guidance. plants are the best example. They grow, spread, and reproduce, without anyone taking any directed action, and much of it is RANDOM (trees don't mate, the polination and planting of a seed happens wherever it happens). I am saying that the elements that served as the foundation of the universe could have done this same thing, without a god to tell them how (if an acid and a base mix they react, you don't have to tell them they're supposed to). That's the point I'm making.

      If you don't believe that pollen being carried from one flower to a place where it HAPPENS to pollenate another flower is random, what is it?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Huebert

      Thinker23

      "So the atheists BELIEVE that God does not exist? If so how their beliefs differ from those saying that God exist?"

      The atheist position is the null hypothesis. It is actually the easiest position to defeat. All you have to do is provide acceptable evidence that your hypothesis is correct. My belief will change if evidence is presented.

      The theist position is not based upon evidence or anything other than a desire for it to be true. Let me ask you a question. Can you imagine any event, argument, evidence or whatever you like, that could cause you to believe that god does not exist?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Huebert... I'm not asking you to PROVE that the Creator does not exist. I'm trying to explain to you that if THERE IS EVIDENCE (a dead body, for example) then it reasonable to assume that there was a murderer. If you DO NOT BELIEVE that there was a murderer then be so kind to offer an alternative explanation for that dead body. This is all I'm asking.

      In our discussion THERE IS EVIDENCE (the Universe we live in) and I'm asking you to offer an alternative explanation to the hypothesis that it was created by someone knowing how to do it.

      July 4, 2012 at 6:16 am |
  11. Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

    I have a question for atheists:If you think God is murderous etc etc etc and he punished people by his laws,so tell me why humans do the same? Today if you break a law,you either go to jail or get off easy.Some are even executed.How many innocent people who executed? You complain that "my god" has done horrible things because of his laws yet...you follow the laws of what society deems to be suitable? So putting a innocent man on death row is "kind" and "loving" yet hundrends maybe even thousands of died because of that?

    So humans punish humans because of our laws..interesting how atheists complain and that's all they ever do.Break law,punished.I guess atheists only like following their laws.

    July 3, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      There is a distinct difference between human's enforcing their laws, and "God" killing to enforce his.
      1) The humans who made the laws exist, and can be questioned about their intent and thought process, and if necessary, the law can be updated and chagned
      2) Humans are subject to the laws that we make. If I make a law that says, murder is illegal, and then I commit murder, I'm going to jail. There is no proff that "God" esxists, but if he does he obviously doesn't hold himself accountable to the laws he laid down for his people (at least not in the bible).
      3) The punishment for human laws are based on the severity of the offense. there ar eplaces that will execute you if you commit murder. I'm okay with that. There is no law (in a developed and just system), that will execute you just because you say someone else's laws are better, or because you dissagree with authority, or because you have consentual s3x. "God's" laws have a bit of a hair trigger on the whole handing out death thing.

      So, you're right, atheists do only want to follow the laws made by other humans, but that's because that makes sense.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • Religion is the #1 problem in this world by far

      We do not punish people for not believing in an invisible ent-ity without any proof.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you would have no laws at all, Makingupannewnameeveryday? Just let those who commit "sins" go on about their merry way and let God sort it out when they die?

      Is that about it?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Hmmm.Interesting.Most laws in many parts of the world, are based on the bible or some other religion.

      Atheists don't like it when the bible says God punishes people yet humans do the punishing today?

      You can't dislike something and then go around and do it.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:26 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Interesting how many theists say that morality is a proof of god's existence. You aren't doing yourself any favors here.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Laws in this country are not based on the Bible. Read some history, dear.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Yet atheists also do the punishing for believing in God.Let's see many wish to outlaw religion,trying to force that cannot teach religion in schools and limiting one to only worship at home and in church.One could not speak about their beliefs in public.If that becomes law MANY would be punished.

      So if one day atheists somehow get a law passed limiting the freedom of the people to only worship at home/churchs or they can't speak about their beliefs at all well don't speak like atheists don't punish others for believing.

      In fact many atheists do punish religious believers in a different way.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:31 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      I thin kyou have that backwards, most religion's laws are derived from societal rules that were already in place because our survival imperitive and our nature as a social animal.

      And yes, we can be against a being that doesn't participate in our reality or prove its existence trying to exert direct influence on our lives. It's perfetly reasonable, people can make and enforce laws because we're part of the species, "God" isn't. To use a simple example, if you don't ante up, you don't play the hand.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Schools are not prohibited from teaching about religion. Prayer in schools is not prohibited, either.

      Read some history, dear.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • truth be told

      All American laws are Bible based. The country is Bible based, the founding fathers were Bible based, America is a Christian nation, established by Christians for Christians, get used to it.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      So atheists act like gods is what you are really saying?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Making up lies to prove you are right won't work.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:35 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      Removing religion from the public sector (which means from non-private/corporate locations and communications- ie. things that are purely governmental and paid for by everyone), does not equal banning or making religion illegal. Noone is being punished for having religion. If you have any specific examples please present them, for now you're just making your handle painfully ironic.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you can't understand the answers you request (or you don't bother to read them) why ask the questions?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      And yet that is literally restricting someone's freedom of choice because YOU don't like it?

      How would smokers feel if they banned smoking entirely? That would be restricting one's own choice.That isn'f against any law unless you are underage or the drug is illegal.

      Get more common sense.One can believe any religion they like,its you atheists who create your own standards for that,try to force it into the government and think its logical and right but you acf JUST like the religious.

      Hypocrites.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • BRC

      @Truth be told,
      That can be historically, factually, legaly, and logically disproved. It's wrong in pretty much every way. You can say it as often, as loudly, and as closed mindedly as you want, but it's not magically going to become true, I recommend moving on.

      @Making up lies,
      No, I'm saying humans act like humans, there is no such thing as gods, and we don't need them. Why do you insist on referencing something as a god?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:42 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Listen to what you just said.YOU don't need them.YOU.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      All freedoms have limits. Your right to swing your arms only exists if you can do so without hitting someone's nose.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      I believe tobacco should be an illegal substance, nothing good comes from it. But I don't see what that has to do with this situation.

      Let's try to keep this simple. Name one law the US government has passed that makes it difficult for an individual person to practice their personal faith or beliefs. Or, explain how not allowing the Christian religion to dominate government functions rpevents individuals from practicing their faith.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      And yet there is a limit for the atheists also of what they can do and not do.

      Sorry dear, learn something.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • Horus

      Atheists don't believe in your God so why would they think anything of him/her/it? As for "it" being murderous, well, it's kinda right there in your Bible, so it's not a matter of anyone "thinking it", your Bible claims it to be.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • hippypoet

      your stupity is depressing.... i once had hope for the human species, but at one point we developed religion and become unwilling to learn new things because someone is afraid of the truth and rather make stuff up!

      very interesting, depressing but interesting.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      that's true I don't have any need for gods, there are many people like me. However you don't seem to agree. You seem to need gods (or "God"). that's all good and well, I simply asked why, and then I asked what the government has done to affect YOUR personnal relationship with that "God". You have yet to answe either question.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Duh. Whoever said atheists were exempt from the law of this country? Everyone's rights are limited because everyone has rights under the law. You have yet to show how anyone is infringing on any of yours, dear. When are you going to do that? Or are you just going to ignore the answers and keep posting drivel?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      I wouldn't believe atheists have a proper real education in the bible.

      Limiting prayer? Let's see kids if they so desire can't pray in schools as it "offends" people,and lets not forget about the "one nation under God chant" which atheists wish to remove.Yet that is part of the history of America.Hmm.What else? Yet none violate any laws.None.

      Its you atheists who take it too far and complain because you have nothing better to do with your life

      July 3, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      Hey Tom Tom,even atheists have limits also.

      Learn that or do you ignore the laws which state people have freedoms you don't agree with?

      I think for Americans "Freedom of religion" means what it says.Don't try to change it because you don't like religion.

      You are powerless and atheists become more desperate because of it.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Chuckles

      @Making up lies

      You're missing a key ingredient here. Your god has been declared all wise, all loving and infallible. Humans are no such thing. We make and enforce laws to have a society that works and works better when people follow the law. No one "likes" to punish anyone, nor is it that I hate that god will punish me, it's the reasoning behind it that I and many other atheists dislike.

      God punishes because of many things, but one of the highest on his list is disbelief. In a free society, the one you love so much, disbelief is not only NOT against the law, but there's not a social stigma of being a different religion (not the case in small, local communities, but in American culture in general).

      Laws in America and most of the western world are in place for a) deterrence B) retribution and C) to stop family feuds from developing much like the Hatfields vs. the McCoys. There's no divine reasoning behind laws and because of that we can recognize that a law made 50 years ago might have been wrong and can be changed. The same does not stand true for religious laws that are supposed to be infallible.

      Please think a little more critically.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      There are lot of things you "don't believe" because you're an ignorant little kid.

      Children are not prevented from praying in school. The "chant" you refer to was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 20th century; it wasn't in the original pledge. What cases are currently being heard regarding its removal?

      Do you have any facts at all?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, kid, do you not know what "exempt" means?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:58 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      Children can pray in schools, all they want (as long as it doesn't distract form other student's education). The laws say that the PUBLIC school can't lead the prayer. ANd that one nation under god line was added much much later during are squabble qith communism by paranoid and ignorant politicians. So, again, how has anyone's personal right to their religion been affected?

      NA dwhile many of us actually are well read in the bible, and spend a lot of time studying religions (know your enemy), how does that matter at all. the bible is only applicable if your Christian, it has nothing to do with everyone else.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      I dare you to live in a Muslim dominated country.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You atheists are powerless and that's why many of you have become desperate.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • One Nation Under god IS Divisible

      god
      _______ = 0

      1 nation

      July 3, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • LinCA

      @Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You said, "I dare you to live in a Muslim dominated country."
      So you've found a religion that's even more backward and repressive than your own, and somehow think that makes living under christian oppression is somehow palatable?

      The infantile delusions at the roots of all religions are detrimental to any society.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      I don't want to live in a Muslim dominated country anymore than I want this to becoem a Christian dominated country, I think you're all wrong.

      What exactly are we desperate about?

      ANd do you ever plan on going back and clearly answering all of the questions that have been asked of you, or are you planning on just rapidly changing topics and throwing out accusations and hoping that nobody notices your argument has no substance?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • hippypoet

      desperate....us....no, we are not the ones who give our selves over to an idea based on fear of death and some even join the death cult sect – christianity!

      July 3, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Desperate to do what?

      Really, is this the best you can do at trolling?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • LinCA

      @Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You said, "You atheists are powerless and that's why many of you have become desperate."
      We're not desperate. We're making great strides in eradicating the mental illness that religion is. The free flow of information is leading millions more young adults to shed the delusion.

      The internet will be the death of organized religion.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Huebert

      @making up lies

      You come on to belief blog and rant about atheist all day and atheist are the desperate ones?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      America is not even a Christian nation.Never was and never will be.

      In a Mulim country where their laws rule,any non-Muslim is killed including atheists.But atheists aren't worried because they aren't imposing their laws on you.When they do is when you start to really care but the what the "radicals" have done! oh boy no atheist attacks Islam or demands evidence of "their god".

      you say you do when they impose on your life.Right.You keep telling yourself that.

      So do you even care for how many Christians were killed by the violence? Or any other group? Or do you start caring when they impose their religious law on you?

      Now that is backwards thinking.

      hypocrite.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • LinCA

      @Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You said, "I have a question for atheists:If you think God is murderous etc [...]"
      I don't think your god is murderous. Your god doesn't exist. It's believers that think it is murderous. According to your fables, it wiped out almost the entire population, simply because it fucked up in the first place.

      It just never ceases to amaze me that are still any adults that still believe in such a monster and continue to worship it.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • hippypoet

      ok....for all the morons out there – the jewish god, the christian god, and the muslim god are all the same non existent creature!

      July 3, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you can translate that into English, please do so. It's gibberish.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • BRC

      @Making up lies,
      Wow, that's quite an interesting mental 180 you've pulled there. In the beginning of your posts, you were saying that atheists complained baout Chrsitian practices, adn tried to supress it. Now you're saying that Atheists don't care about religious impositions, so long as they're muslim, because we think they don't affect us. That is impressive (and probably the first time I've ever heard someone try to make that absurd argument).

      Allow me to clarify. Atheists don't believe in ANY gods, and we don't want ANY religion to control or directly influence government. The people who make up teh governement will of course by driven by their personal beliefs and history, but we should never take governmental action because "a religion says so".

      At this point, even more than before, I've gone from thinking you're probably a troll, to genuinely hoping you are, because it would be really weird if someone genuinly had the mental shift you just made.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • Huebert

      @Lies

      I don't ask you to prove Allah, which is the Arabic name for God no matter if you are Muslim, Jewish, or Christian, because you don't believe in Allah, that in its self is the height of hilarity. It's like when you tell atheist to find their own evidence for gods existence; it's just a useless request.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Making up lies..., If you could only choose one, would you chose to save someones soul or to win a public debate?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Laws in our country are the deals made in the backrooms and how much money you can pay the attorneys.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  12. JellyBean

    They destroyed tombs that were built in the 15th century? I swear, I wonder how humans ever got the he ll out of the stone ages.

    July 3, 2012 at 8:33 am |
  13. hippypoet

    my belief
    its a world based on scientific and physical laws that are proven to exist and their effects are measurable...us as humans, mere animals, hold no real power or control aside thru ingenuity which allows us to change our environment to suit us...stay with me here...at this point in human history we ceased to change to suit our environment and started changing it to suit us – thats destruction of the earth to suit one species – that should go over well...
    your belief
    the idea that we as a species are soooo special is an interesting one...we are just smarter then the other guys...and you folks attribute our existence to an imaginary creature that you say created this world for us and is a great god, a good and all knowing and all powerful god.....why are we destroying his creations thru over hunting, deforestation, over mining of minerals... and once more you believe that you have the right to because you believe this planet is a gift from god to us..... right to is another thing all together..to even have the want to is moronic if one has even a trace amount of reasoning ability...maybe a hint of forethought....no and we are your GOD'S creation, wow he sucks... i see us as equal to every other species that has ruled the planet before only we do it faster....and if you studied that science that you fear so much you'd know that every other ruling species is gone! A sprinkle of deduction skills and you get we will die off at one point on this planet, on any planet, and this you think is a gift of your god.... a third will be chosen...WRONG – every other species went down not in select groups based on merits or brownie badges, they died and at the rates they did due to their size, i bet their gods had this day all planned out too! that would be the rational believer thou and i can't fathom those exist, well maybe if god does!

    thats some crazy thoughts from
    the hippypoet

    July 3, 2012 at 8:21 am |
    • truth be told

      We are talking sh it house rat crazy

      July 3, 2012 at 8:23 am |
    • hippypoet

      oh so you lack reading skills too huh? your god really sucks to have had made you so deficient! i'd file a complaint... but i don't think your egotistical god enjoys being criticized!

      July 3, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • truth be told

      Didn't read it, too much bull sh it, never read your extensive drivel, just agreed with your conclusion.

      July 3, 2012 at 8:43 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      I think science is awesome. The reason I say that is that I really do think that and I get in trouble on here all the time commenting on science while not being trained in science. So, let me get in trouble again by saying while we have learned a tremendous amount of things through science, we still don’t know everything. I read the other day that with the discovery of dark energy and dark matter we suddenly realized that we only think we know what is in 5% of the universe that we think we can observe. That is a huge amount no doubt, but doesn’t the rest make you wonder?

      July 3, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • Cal

      Robert, you have probably heard the term "God of the Gaps" before. Does it make you wonder everytime science shows a natural process that does not recquire divine intervention. The fact is that overtime we as humans are gradually replacing "God did it" with natural scientific processes. Now that is no proof one way or the other on a supernatural creator, but with every scientific discovery His role is lessened.

      July 3, 2012 at 8:54 am |
    • hippypoet

      wonder, yes....but do i jump to any conclusion about the meaning or the reason of it all – the answer is a huge resounding NO! i allow for not knowing without claims to grandeur unlike any believer of any god – they @ssert much that is illrational and at times clearly....sh it house rat crazy as one of those freaks put it....

      July 3, 2012 at 8:59 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Cal & hippypoet,
      Science and creation are not why I have faith, but some have come to God through those studies. Perhaps one day scientists will be able to fully explain how the universe, life, and self-conscious beings called humans were created. If they do, it won’t change my faith, because once you meet God, he is irreplaceable.

      July 3, 2012 at 9:15 am |
    • hippypoet

      LOL so now you claim to have met god?

      July 3, 2012 at 9:27 am |
    • Thinker23

      hippypoet: "...you folks attribute our existence to an imaginary creature that you say created this world ..."

      What do YOU attribute our existence to?

      July 3, 2012 at 9:30 am |
    • Cal

      There are definite consequences to a constant lessening of God's role in the universe. Suppose we can prove evolution and the big bang according to theist standards. That basically means the only thing God did was snap his fingers and cause the big bang. That makes for a very impersonal God. And if there is a God, unless there are consequences for whether or not you believe, "Is there a God?" becomes a moot question. On top of that if believing in the wrong God has the same consequences as not believing at all, it doesn't matter if you just say "I think there is a God" is a useless statment unless you can prove which one is the correct God.

      July 3, 2012 at 9:35 am |
    • hippypoet

      @Thinker23 – why should i attribute our existence to anything, why is it so farfetched that we are equal in our existence as every other thing on this planet or any planet that has life – we aren't so special to even fathom we are the only ones that contain life...well i'm not that dumb, are you? – i can blame a cosmic fluke or i could make stuff up like believers do – the point is it doesn't matter where we came from because it doesn't change anything nor does making stuff up teach us anything – we should focus on facts and truth...if we don't know then we don't know...no god figure required but by the weak!

      July 3, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Robert,
      You have "met god' through a process which happened only by the actions of an emergent process, (consciousness) which came about by changes in chemicals in your brain. You may or may not understand that. If "god does not change", (immortal, immutable), then she can't create something. Creation is self refuting to eternal.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom,
      I contend, what you describe as an emergent process which came by changes in chemicals in my brain is one effect that science can detect of the holy spirit on the human body.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You "contend" it? Well, then, that's certainly proof. Of nothing.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Thinker23

      hippypoet... IGNORING the question is definitely NOT a sign of a great intellect. Religious people at least are trying to answer the question "Where we (humans, live and the Universe) came from?" YOU're saying that you don't know and don't care about it and then you declare that you're "not that dumb..."

      July 3, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • hippypoet

      i don't think i avoided it...my bad. i don't think our existence is the attribute of anything nor do i attribute to anyone or anything – but if i had to in order to answer a simple question....i'd say aliens and a genetic experiment – at least that i can live with and has a greater chance of being proved either correct or not where god is by its nature alone "outside" our understanding and so can't be tested to exist at all....

      July 3, 2012 at 12:27 pm |
  14. Jack

    Hello, everyone is welcome to visit – thestarofkaduri.com

    July 3, 2012 at 8:16 am |
  15. hippypoet

    slaves are oked in the bible, its just that our culture outlawed it....so do you bow to our government over god in the face of gods words and laws???? stoning women, child rearing, these things are found in the bible yet aren't practiced as fervently in this country as some other places on earth - why not?

    July 3, 2012 at 8:14 am |
    • Making up lies to "prove" you are right is not logical

      You do know it was common for everybody to own a slave in that time period?

      We don't pratice it because we aren't Jews..looks like you have zero education on what you spit out.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • hippypoet

      so when jesus said to know your scripture all you read was the gospels huh? it was in the scriptures that tells you things, the gospels tells about peoples experiences and stories recalled from jesuss life time.

      but you knew that already right 🙂

      July 3, 2012 at 10:25 am |
    • hippypoet

      you most likely never read any part of the bible and all you know is from what others have told you or what you heard while playing your part as a sheep in the herd while in the temple of morons.

      all you got is jesus is the son, he died for our sins, and he is the forgiveness...then being the not jew you are for some reason you most likely still follow the 10 commandments – THAT IS A JEWISH LIST BROUGHT TO YOU BY A JEW FOR JEWS......you would know that by reading. and they aren't 10 but rather 613 but again you knew that.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  16. Holy Cow!

    Exodus 35:2
    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

    Since the Saxons convinced the Pope to change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday to coincide with the Pagan Sun Worship, do you think God still wants us to kill all the Sinners who work each Saturday mowing their yard, going to the office, shopping, etc.. Repent! Sucka...

    July 3, 2012 at 8:04 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Holy Cow!,
      I used think that folks who posted stuff like this were really interested in why, but come to find out you do this only to mock believers and to engage in the sport of arguing. Good luck with that.

      July 3, 2012 at 8:33 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Just ask William Lane Craig. You can make a very good living at the sport of arguing. (Nice attempted deflection BTW).

      July 3, 2012 at 10:36 am |
  17. hippypoet

    is there even one person who truly believes they are and have always been good, i mean good enough to get into heaven.....before the bs that people claim where they have forgiveness by jesus – f that bs... i'm talking old testament style – is there anyone left who still behaves like it says in the "good" book? with the stoning women and all that – is there anyone who TRULY follows the bible and all its "glory"?

    i am discussing the actions of believers being in accordance to the book they claim to base their lives on....it has nothing to do with the sole followers one of sect of jehovah!

    July 3, 2012 at 8:01 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      I can honestly say no. I am not and have not been good, according to God. That is the whole point of the Bible, the law shows you that you are a lawbreaker. You are guilty and need to be forgiven. You won’t desire forgiveness until you realize you are guilty. Taken as a whole, the Bible is the account of the spiritual redemption of the human creation. There are Jewish folk who still adhere to the Old Testament. Perhaps one will respond to your questions. If you are taking Jesus out then you are really limiting the discussion.

      July 3, 2012 at 8:26 am |
    • hippypoet

      lol, oh i'm guilty oh right! i have done a great many things that are against our man made laws never mind a non existent creature who apparently makes laws to then not enforce them...at least in todays world – god only enforced those laws in a book...we have no other evidence for any enforcement of his laws....ok so lets focus on man made laws – yes i am guilty. 🙂

      ok what next?

      July 3, 2012 at 8:32 am |
    • hippypoet

      oh and i need to mention that since i am taking the J man out – the convo is not not limited at all....first that loser was only here for 30 years – where losers have been worshiping god for at least 700 years for him and for 2000 years after so ya your right, take jesus out and now we have nothing to talk about..... lol

      what is wrong with you people?

      July 3, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      Realizing you are guilty is a good first step. As far as God’s enforcement, what we call judgment, you don’t get that until later.
      The first 11 chapters of Genesis cover 2000+ years. The whole rest of the bible covers another 2000. The reason I put + for the first 11 chapters is that we just don’t know. Bible scholars think that the first verse was the original creation and then there was a cataclysmic event which destroyed all life on earth. Possibly when satan was thrown from heaven into the earth. Then the six day creation recorded was the second creation of life on earth. Very interesting stuff, kinda of like science in that there is much we do not know.

      July 3, 2012 at 8:54 am |
    • hippypoet

      Rob, that book is full of instances where god laid waste to us or groups of us due to them being guilty of breaking his laws – why is now different and don't claim jesus did it....that doesn't work, if the J man is god then both have equal say, if J man is not then what he had to say is nothing but empty words...here is a question for you, does god change or is he forever the same creation as he was when the world was created?

      July 3, 2012 at 9:03 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      We will just have to disagree on a few points. Yes, God does not change, but he wasn’t created. Jesus is the reason that God’s judgment is withheld. I am sorry if you can’t understand those concepts but they are the truth. We are in the age of sowing the seed of the gospel. Judgment comes at harvest time.

      July 3, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • hippypoet

      if god doesn't change then please tell all of us why he has ceased the way he used to smite disbelievers and blasphemers....well, why no more pillars of salt? why no more full scale destruction on cities and areas of the world if god doesn't change???

      July 3, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Robert,
      You need to talk to some Torah scholars about "lawbreaking". That's NOT what it's about. (Which is why "salvation" is superfluous, and irrelevant),

      July 3, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      You seem to understand sin and the penalty for it. The wages of sin is death. Prior to Jesus, God allowed his people to sacrifice an animal as atonement for sin. They understood they sinned and they paid for it with a repentant heart and animal sacrifice. “Full scale destruction” was reserved for unrepentant sin. Then came Jesus, he paid the wages of sin for the believer and he withholds judgment of nonbelievers until the last day. He is giving nonbelievers the opportunity to repent until their bodies die, or time ends, which ever comes first.
      God hasn’t changed, in the old testament accounts the people sinned, God punished sin, the people repented, God forgave and blessed them, and over and over and over again. Guess what it is still happening today and everyday. The only difference is that Jesus took the punishment.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom,
      Perhaps a Torah scholar will get on here and straighten us out.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • hippypoet

      yeah see, it doesn't say that in the bible – someone else who is said to have said it and then written down by a third or even forth party – they said that....according to what jesus is said to have said – he never said that! he never said don't do anything in the bible that came before me did he?

      i may have missed that part?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • hippypoet

      besides a practicing jew, atheists like me are the closest your gunna get to a torah scholar....i am sry if this makes you sad. lol

      i do know my stuff however – you can test me if you wish.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • truth be told

      How do you challenge the Bible that God wrote Himself?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      God didn't write anything.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • hippypoet

      if god wrote the bible..ALL OF IT, minus the gospels.... why don't you follow all of it?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:46 am |
    • hippypoet

      i hate doing this but here it is, matthew 22:29 Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

      now i can puke.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • truth be told

      God most certainly authored the Bible and personally wrote a portion of it.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • truth be told

      did you puke or did you lie?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • hippypoet

      you really are a twit.... you said most certainly huh... and your reason for this belief is what?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,

      What is your understanding of Isaiah 53?

      July 3, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Truth be told
      I have seen your posts and have never seen truth come out of you yet. Seperate belief from fact and you can start to understand truth

      July 3, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • hippypoet

      sry i was outside with my kids for lunch – isaiah 53 to me is just a person who writes in the light of a non believer while preaching and in so doing is an attempt to convert those who have "gone astray".... basically bibical propaganda...i mean in reality, if i was to argue from isaiah 53 i would say that yes god exists but to what end since that part played by him is over and nothing till death is his part to play again – so belief is truly unneeded is one knows of said existence but belief is rather only belonging to one that doubts.

      July 3, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • hippypoet

      however interpretation of scripture is in my mind a moot point to do due to the nature of believers and the belief of the bible being the WORD OF GOD – who are we. such low beings to interpretation of scriptures of gods own word!

      and so if one takes isaiah 53 as literal then it means a very straight forward something – its a description of beliefs and acts of the time....mainly the acts one should take towards non believers and hopes for the messiah.... again, this is still a double edged sword for all later readers will be forced to interprete it as the time it was written for is gone and now they are just words but since believers view such things as the word of god – it must always have meaning!!! no worries

      July 3, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Hippypoet,
      To me Isaiah 53 describes Jesus taking our punishment for sin which is what you said the bible did not say. You are correct Jesus didn’t tell them to not do anything that came before him but here is what he did tell them; Jesus speaking in Matthew 9:13,” But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
      How do you take that, Mercy not sacrifice?

      July 3, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • hippypoet

      that is in my reading a plee from jesus to the men doing this act upon him and those overhearing gave it a pretext.

      it is neither mercy nor sacrifice but rather a human asking for life out of fear of death. even the most delusional have moments of clearity... no insult towards you, i believe jesus was afflicted with many mental issues...similiar illnesses can be seen all thru out nomadic lifestyles. inbreeding.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      You didn't go read it, did you?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • hippypoet

      Who has believed our message
      and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
      2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
      and like a root out of dry ground.
      He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
      nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
      3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
      a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
      Like one from whom people hide their faces
      he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

      4 Surely he took up our pain
      and bore our suffering,
      yet we considered him punished by God,
      stricken by him, and afflicted.
      5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
      he was crushed for our iniquities;
      the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
      and by his wounds we are healed.
      6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
      each of us has turned to our own way;
      and the Lord has laid on him
      the iniquity of us all.

      7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
      yet he did not open his mouth;
      he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
      and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
      so he did not open his mouth.
      8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
      Yet who of his generation protested?
      For he was cut off from the land of the living;
      for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
      9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
      and with the rich in his death,
      though he had done no violence,
      nor was any deceit in his mouth.

      10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
      and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
      he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
      and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
      11 After he has suffered,
      he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
      by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
      and he will bear their iniquities.
      12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
      and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
      because he poured out his life unto death,
      and was numbered with the transgressors.
      For he bore the sin of many,
      and made intercession for the transgressors.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Thanks for posting Isaiah 53, but I was questioning whether you read Matthew 9. Based on your reply it didn't appear you had the context. By the way, one of my favorite chapters in the bible is Isaiah 55, go read that one sometime when you have the opportunity.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i have read the bible, cover to cover many times.. and other versions of it.... i speak about it as if they are human words depicting human actions who believe they have the protection of god – so somewhat detrimental but they wanted it that way...and they are proud of it. the only awesome inspiring things i read are the lengths some are willing to go for their beliefs....we don't see that kind of conviction anymore....for the most part i mean when compared to those from that time – maybe its sciences fault...it explained too much attributed to gods power...whatever.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i believe this is that part of that p@ssage that concerns this convo -=

      9 As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he arose and followed Him.

      10 Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

      12 When Jesus heard that, He said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice.’[b] For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”[c]

      i see this as a self promotion of the type that strives to appear as humble while appearing above everthing...and then the claim to be able to forgive in the sense only god can. the other p@ssages in matt 9 are in my opinion just there to bolster the claim to greatness while again ramming the appearence of being humble in our minds.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Actually he was quoting Hosea 6:6 “For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.” Which brings us back to the idea that God changed. They broke the covenant, not God. He didn’t change, the people refused to obey him. This is just one example, read Amos 5. Jesus was the answer to the broken covenant, a new covenant, one of mercy.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
  18. ONE CAREFUL OWNER

    One careful owner coming through!

    July 3, 2012 at 6:34 am |
    • Mirosal

      A careful owner of... what?

      July 3, 2012 at 6:38 am |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    July 3, 2012 at 6:15 am |
    • HeavenSkunt

      This time I am actually serious.

      Every time god fvcks up some midwestern shi thole town with a tornado, or flood, or some other fvcked up s h it, christards say..."it's part of gods plan".

      Now I assume that somewhere there was a christard praying just moments before jesus threw an F-250 through their trailer and wiped our the whole family.

      So obviously god ignored their prayers, which I understand because he already had a plan to wipe out the family because it's fun to play "toss the F-250 at the rednecks".

      So, and I'm 100% serious about this, if god already has a plan, how can prayer change anything? If god has a plan, that's it, end of story.

      Prayer isn't going to do jacks hit.

      July 3, 2012 at 9:23 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      If it does, I'll be a Mormon soon.

      July 3, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer doesn’t not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!

      July 3, 2012 at 10:21 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Prayer is a 7000 mile journey between two points. In between the routes can be as many and as varied as God allows and there is more than enough room for all things to be considered and then some.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • JellyBean@lunchbreaker

      Yeah, you can count me in on that as well. I can be a Mormon like rich man Mittens Romney.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      If there are "many routes", then you can never claim prayer changes anything.

      July 3, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • Prayer changes things

      Prayer changes lives
      Prayer changes times
      Prayer changes events
      Prayer has extended lives delayed judgement and altered the course of human history.
      Prayer has advanced science, propelled knowledge and advanced mankind to the stars and beyond
      Prayer is the lifeblood of wisdom and the language of angels
      Prayer is the fellowship with God that endures all things loves all things hopes all things
      Prayer is the nourishment of saints and the law of love
      Prayer changes things

      July 3, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • Jesus

      You're a PROVEN LIAR over and over again. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!!

      July 3, 2012 at 11:18 am |
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.