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July 24th, 2012
04:44 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Tuesday, July 24

By Laura Koran, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: My Faith: How Hajj gave us a child
As our family has been getting ready for Ramadan and I look at my daughter I'm reminded of our Hajj trip and how it completed our family. I didn't fully realize the impact that Hajj would have on our family's life. It not only gave us a spiritual awakening but also brought a child, our child, into our lives. For Muslims, the chance to perform Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, is one of the greatest expressions of our faith.

Tweet of the Day:

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

Religion News Service: Is gun control a religious issue?
Of all the controversies that have followed in the bloody wake of Friday's (July 20) shooting rampage in Aurora, Colo., few have provided such a clarifying insight into the moral tensions and contradictions in American culture than the argument over whether gun control is a religious issue.

The Guardian: Sports hijabs help Muslim women to Olympic success
London 2012 is the first Olympics where women will compete in all 26 sports on offer (although still in 30 fewer events in total), and Fifa is just one of several international bodies to relax clothing rules and so allow more Muslim women to compete in the Games. It's impossible to know how many women will be competing with their head covered this year, but they include judo player Wodjan Ali Seraj Abdulrahim and Saudi Arabian runner Sarah Attar, as well as footballers.

National Catholic Reporter: Vatican withdraws recognition of Peru university as 'Catholic'
The Vatican has withdrawn the titles "Catholic" and "Pontifical" from a university in Peru after decades of discussions over the school's Catholic identity and after tensions between university officials and the local cardinal over control of the school's assets.

The New York Times: Ramadan Arrives Amid High Heat and Political Transition in Arab World
This year’s Ramadan holy month may prove to be the toughest in decades — and not just because it falls when the heat is at its highest and the days are particularly long.

The Washington Post: ‘Chick fil-A Appreciation Day’ announced by Mike Huckabee amidst gay marriage debate
After Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy’s comments on marriage launched a national “Eat Mor Chikin” backlash, another cultural bigwig, former Arkansas governor and Baptist preacher Mike Huckabee, announced Sunday that he was coordinating a campaign in support of the “company run by Christian principles.”

The Jewish Telegraphic Agency: Israel Museum offers segregated after-hour tours for Chasidim exhibit
The Israel Museum said it would give private, after-hours tours of a new exhibit on Chasidic culture. The statement is in response to a Haaretz report Monday that the museum would have separate visiting times for men and women in response to the requests of the haredi Orthodox public to view the exhibit, titled “A World Apart Next Door: Glimpses into the life of Hasidic Jews.”

Catholic News Service: Papal butler's lawyers say client acted out of love for church, pope
Everything Paolo Gabriele did, he did for love of the church and the pope, said the lawyers for the personal assistant to Pope Benedict XVI accused of leaking private documents. However, Carlo Fusco and Cristiana Arru, the defense lawyers, said whether or not anything Gabriele did was a crime will be up to Vatican magistrates or a Vatican court to determine.

The Philadelphia Enquirer: A church celebrates with women as priests
Several months ago, Kathy Schuck's 15-year-old daughter posed a question that seemed innocuous but that became a call to action. The gist of Ann Schuck's question: Why did girls and women seem to be less important than men in their church, St. Rose of Lima in North Wales?

Join the conversation…

A woman sits on her car near the Century Aurora 16 theater.

CNN: My Take: The Batman killings and the evil that we do
Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," responds to the tragic shooting at an Aurora, CO movie theater early Friday morning.

- CNN's Laura Koran

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (239 Responses)
  1. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    July 26, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!|

      July 27, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
  2. b4bigbang

    Anyone who says science has proven there's no free will is feeding you a load of baloney.
    Read the entire article on wikipedia and you'll see:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_free_will#

    July 24, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
  3. William Demuth

    Anyone have a question about reality that I can help answer today?

    July 24, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • Huebert

      Why are some people so unsatisfied with the present reality that they create an alternate reality inhabited by "spiritual beings"?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Unknown

      Why can't atheists just be atheists and leave everyone alone and stop complaining about everything?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Because atheists are miserable and want to ensure everyone else is just as miserable as they are.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • HeavenSent

      I forgot to add, that atheists follow the lies of satan and that's why they are miserable.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • Unknown

      Heavensent shut up..honestly just shut up.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • LinCA

      @Unknown

      You said, "Heavensent shut up..honestly just shut up."
      ROTFLMAO

      July 24, 2012 at 11:57 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Didn't you guys read Roberts comment below, no athiests here, move along.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Unknown

      No atheists here? Atheists can't leave this forum alone without getting some sick twisted pleasure.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • Who invited me?

      HS/fakeHS/Unknow/trolldoll/troll of a thousand stoilen names
      It is you that gets some sick twisted pleasure from running all over this blog, half the time arguing with yourself because you can't get a rise out of people.
      If that's not the black calling the kettle pot (Archie Bunker)

      July 24, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Unknown

      LOL

      July 24, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      Unkown, if you utilize that little rolling thing between the right and left click butons of your mouse, you could scroll down and see the comment I was referring to and realize that was a joke, and you might learn something from your Christian brother Robert Brown.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Unknown, you're angry and want to take away my freedom of speech because you know that Jesus is truth and satan is a lie.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Who invited me? Only atheists hijack my handle, as well as other Christian handles to write their babble lies and answer themselves. Guilty of what I wrote who?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • Cq

      HeavenSent
      Actually, I think it's more likely that the same people who hijack your handle are the ones hijacking the handles of atheist posters. The quality of the writing appears the same, and so does the intent. There was an article here about the tendency of Christians to behave very un-Christianlike online, so you cannot argue that your side can only be victims in this, right? So, it would be just as illogical to assume that we are mocking you as you are mocking us with these posts. Trolls exist. Just ignore their posts.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Cq, when an atheists handle got hijacked. I thought the same as you ... until I realized it was a cover up when some Christians mentioned that none of the atheists handles were stolen. Then, like magic, atheists handles were stolen.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm |
    • Thinker22

      Actually, I have a question, William... We know that the world where we live (the Universe) exist. We also know that the Universe had a beginning commonly known as the Big Bang 13.7 Billion years ago. This leaves us with two possibilities: either the Universe was CREATED by someone knowing how to do it or, alternatively, it came into existence all by itself from nothing.

      Which one of these two possibilities you believe in?

      July 25, 2012 at 6:30 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Thinker, If there are 2 possibilities, and niether can be proven, why take a side? You used the term "believe". One could attempt to assign probabilities to each possibility, but just because something is more probable does not make it the correct outcome. And, I could be wrong, but it appears you are trying to apply "common sense" to interpret the nature of reality. Many scientific breakthroughs have violated our "common sense" thinking of that time period. If you want some interesting insight into the question though, check out "A Universe from Nothing" by Krauss.

      July 25, 2012 at 8:54 am |
  4. Topher

    Anyone have a question about Christianity that I can help answer today?

    July 24, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      How come otherwise intelligent adults can't seem to shake this infantile belief?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      How is christianity any different from a belief in the Tooth Fairy?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Assuming the poster is not an imposter, no, none 'cause you have shown a spectacular inability to answer questions about your delusional beliefs.

      If it the poster is an imposter, thanks for the laugh.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:53 am |
    • Topher

      Your arrogance causes you to view others' beliefs as infantile. So, I can't answer your question, because it isn't a valid question.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Topher

      The tooth fairy didn't die for your sins. It's a shame you're wasting the gift you've been given. You'll pay for it in the end.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "Your arrogance causes you to view others' beliefs as infantile. So, I can't answer your question, because it isn't a valid question."
      How about answering my second question first then. We can get back to the first one later.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:56 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      I can hardly belief it but it seems the real Topher is back for more.

      Topher, do yourself and your cult a favor and quit digging an even bigger hole.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "The tooth fairy didn't die for your sins."
      Are you suggesting that your god did? What evidence do you have that your god even exists?

      There is equal evidence for your god as there is for the Tooth Fairy. Belief in either is therefor equally baseless and infantile (hence my first question).

      You said, "It's a shame you're wasting the gift you've been given. You'll pay for it in the end."
      Ooohh. Now I'm getting really scared. Are you suggesting there is a boogieman out there somewhere? Get a fucking grip.

      If your god is so powerful, why doesn't it take me out of the equation right now? Why does it let me ridicule its followers? Why does it let me mock it? Why doesn't it being-up and take a fucking stand? Why is it such a pussy?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      If there was a planetary flood, how is it that we have both salt water and fresh water fish today?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:04 am |
    • just sayin

      Do you have ANY evidence prior to the OT written around 500 BCE? Or is all you have is writings and stories which were clearly copied from another religion?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • Who invited me?

      How is the story of Jonah true if there are no sea creatures that a person could survie for days inside of?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      In my best impersonation of Topher..

      The world wide flood killed all the fresh water fish but after the flood receded, the salt water fish evolved, no strike that, adapted, no strike that too. Ummm, the answer must be in The Babble, but I'll have to do some reading (of the most important book in the world which I haven't finished yet) and get back to you. In the meantime, can you give me a summary?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      What if someone follows all the rules, truly believes both the Old and New Testaments, truly repents from their sins, and confesses at Church to find forgiveness, but instead of confessing or Appealing to Jesus, the man confesses and appeals to "God". TI's not that he doesn't believe that "God" came to earth as Jesus, but since he's back in heaven he just says "God" now. Is that person saved?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, God of the OT is Jesus of the NT. God sent Himself to earth to walk in the flesh as a man, God. as Jesus, is our Messiah. When you talk to God, you do so in Jesus Christ's name. Jesus is the intermediate between God who won't receive any form of sin, and Jesus, who is Immanuel, God with us in the flesh. The OT explains God and His Holy truth, the laws. The NT explains God sending Himself to earth (as Jesus Christ) to walk the walk, not just talk the talk to defeat death, which is sin, which is satan.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:26 am |
    • Topher

      @lunchbreak – God was able to flood the entire world in a short amount of time. You don't think He's also able to separate out fresh water from salt water when the floods recede? And you atheists think I have no imagination.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • Topher

      who invited me – Are you claiming that we've discovered every species of life on this planet?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Topher

      BRC- yes, that person would be saved since Jesus and the Father are one. I don't see why this is so hard for people to understand.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      Nicely summarized refresher for anyone who didn't know that (though a littel over simplified, since the NT does refer to both God and Jesus seperately). Now try answering the question. According to you Jesus = God, so if you just ask "God" for forgiveness (and truly mean it, and perform in all the ways and principles required), does that work, or do you have to say Jesus?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      How did a 600 year old man, his three sons and their respective mates re-populate the entire human race in all its genetic diversity a mere 4000 years ago?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Topher

      just saying – others had an idea of the truth, which is why other religious appear on the surface to resemble the true religion, Christianity. God has given me all of the evidence I need. Why do I need to have other evidence? When the brakes on your car fail, do you look at older cars for additional evidence that your current brakes have failed? What is it that prevents you from accepting reality?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • Topher

      Doc, someone who lives for hundreds of years would be able to have an extraordinary amount of children, don't you think?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Who invited me?

      topher
      That's the best you got?
      No we do not know every species, but we have not and will not ever find one that has a chamber inside of it that could allow a human to survive for days within.
      This story is nothing but a story, it is not metaphorical, is not being taken out of context, is just a story, based on ignorance. The writer did not know the physiology of marine life, and created this story, which ended up in your book of other fictional stories.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • *facepalm*

      Come on, people, @Topher is clearly a Poe. You're being played.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Don't think that just becasue someone asks a question they don't understand what it's about. Often times they're trying to determine what YOU think or understand.

      So, you don't have to use Jesus's name. Good to know. So why does everyone says Jesus instead of just saying "God"? The focus of the Christian religions is (obviously), Christ. That doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't the focus still be "God"? You can say the trinity thing is complicated again, but that's not the point. "God" runs the show, and was Jesus, so why is the focus now Jesus (and if you claim that he's not and that the focus is "God" you're speaking from a limited viewpoint, there are plenty of churches/people/religions that do not)?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • just sayin

      Topher

      just saying – others had an idea of the truth, which is why other religious appear on the surface to resemble the true religion, Christianity. God has given me all of the evidence I need. Why do I need to have other evidence? When the brakes on your car fail, do you look at older cars for additional evidence that your current brakes have failed? What is it that prevents you from accepting reality?

      ---

      And again do you have any evidence prior to 500 BCE? If yes, please provide. If NO well then just say No

      July 24, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • just sayin

      Topher, I understand you do not require evidence prior to 500 BCE...but that is not my question. Please read my question again

      July 24, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "yes, that person would be saved since Jesus and the Father are one."
      Kinda convoluted, don't you think? Raping a virgin and impregnating her with yourself isn't really the easiest way to get back among your people, don't you think?

      Wouldn't it be much easier to just reappear fully formed? Just decent from the heavens in a great light show. That would be a lot more convincing, don't you think? If part of your smoke and mirror show is to convince people that you are real, coming back as a deranged mortal is hardly convincing.

      How can we be certain that Jesus isn't the offspring of an adulteress? Or she may not have wanting to confess to her husband that she was raped. Who knows, maybe she was a hooker. Times were tough, you know.

      Much more easy to make up a cockamamie story about virgin birth and let your offspring believe they are "special" than to come out and fess up. Pimp and hooker stories aren't really very good material for bedtime fables.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Topher

      BRC – think of the trinity like H2O. It can come in different forms. In the OT, people focused on ice. But that ice turned to water in the NT. Thus, the focus is on water. But if you say ice, it's still all just H2O.

      And facepalm, if you don't want to engage in a debate, why not simply stay out of it?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Topher
      According to Genesis, there were 4 human females who survived the flood.
      Even if Noah impregnated all of them at once, or his sons did their respective wives, and then they all repeated the process 14 years later (give or take) when the 1st offspring became fertile, how could different races with distinct physiological adaptation arise from such a small, virtually identical gene pool 4,000 years ago?

      And do you really believe that until just a few thousand years ago, people lived to be 1,000 years old?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Topher

      just sayin – I have plenty of evidence. All of creation is evidence. You simply refuse to see it. I wish I could cure your blindness, but you choose to be blind so there is not much I can do.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • Topher

      LinCA – If Jesus appear to us in full form without first being born it would render the sacrifice useless. He had to be FULLY human as well as fully divine for His sacrifice to be meaningful.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:47 am |
    • Topher

      Doc, can you prove that didn't? Why are your beliefs better than mine? You don't think that God had the ability to diversify our species? If He can flood the world, don't you think that He can change our skin color?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "If Jesus appear to us in full form without first being born it would render the sacrifice useless. He had to be FULLY human as well as fully divine for His sacrifice to be meaningful."
      If it was fully, or even partially, divine his "sacrifice" was meaningless because it wouldn't be a sacrifice. It would have known that it would return to it's place of eternal bliss.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:52 am |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      Interesting view point, not the best analogy though.
      1) What makes universe crafting all-powerful all-knowing ice decide to melt (the age old, how is this not "God" changing his mind that never gets answered)
      2) You speak of it like the ice goes away, and the water takes over. Unless I'm terribly mistaken that's not at all how Jesus speaks, he tells people about the ice, and the importance of the ice, and how to one try to live up to the ice. The ice is still really important.
      3) Jews still worship the ice. Why should they be punished?Just because the ice made water? there are no rules form the NT that Judaism violates, they just don't pay attention to the water. Why should the, it came from and then went back to the ice?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • just sayin

      Topher,

      You are providing assumption that has nothing to do with my question. Do you have any other evidence beyond 500 BCE? The present evidence shows the stories were copied. Do you have ANY evidence prior to 500 BCE to substantiate the OT? Your only source to date that you have provided is the OT. If this was a court, the evidence shows the OT is copied stories from a previous religion. Do you have anything to offer that might pre-date what was copied??????? I am not sure if you understand my question and point.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      The response "god did it" is meaningless. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. It is saying "I don't know and I don't care to find out."

      July 24, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      Topher, contiuning your example of the states of water, when heat is applied, solid water becomes liquid water which become gaseous water. Which is exactly the same thaing that happens to you and religion when "heat" is applied – it becomes flatulence! Again, I urge you, for the sake of you and your cult – quit digging!

      July 24, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Topher

      BRC – the H2O is important. It's important to realize that it can be both water and ice. The Jews, in this case, think that H2O can only be ice. Christians correctly recognize all forms.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Topher

      Heubert – I do know. God did it. Why would I look for reasons that are false when I already know the truth. That would be like knowing that 2+2 = 4 and still checking that 197 + 27469 doesn't equal 4. Such an exercise doesn't accomplish anything but wasting time.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • Topher

      0G – if you can't make an argument and can only resort to insult, it would seem you never had much of an argument to begin with.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • just sayin

      Topher, do you have any archaeological evidenc prior to 500 BCE to substantiate your source? The present archaeological evidence clearly shows it was copied. Yes? No?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:14 pm |
    • Topher

      Please point me to your sources that say that the Bible was 'clearly' copied. If you want to make the claim, provide the evidence.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:16 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      The H2O is important ONLY because it came from the Ice. I'm going to drop the analogy now. What you said doesn't work-
      "It's important to realize that it can be both water and ice. The Jews, in this case, think that H2O can only be ice. Christians correctly recognize all forms."

      That's not at all what jews believe. Of course they realise "God" could come to Earth, ITS "GOD" it can do whatever the hell it wants. But they still Worship "God", well Yahweh, the original, the first form, the form that told them they would bear no idols and worship no other gods. The bible claims that Jesus came from "God" and depending on your interpretation was "God", but that doesn't mean that "God" would be mad at the Jews for worshipping him as "God".

      And Christians BELIEVE they are correct. Fair enough, but belief, no matter how fervent, doesn't make it true.

      And Creation is not evidence for "God". the universe serves as evidence for the possibility of a creator, but does not in any way imply the existance of the Abrahamic "God"; it is intelectually dishonest to say so unless you can start providing some verifiable proof to eliminate the alternatives or that points directly to "God's hand".

      July 24, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      Summarizing Topher's arguments:

      – The Babble says so
      – I don't know, but I will read The Babble some more and get back to you
      – Please tell me the right answer 'cause I'm too lazy to do real home work myslef
      – My god has very powerful magic and can do anything!
      – Please don't be mean to me ('cause if I think you are mean, I will ignore your posts).

      Yes, just about the perfect walking/taking advertisement for *not* being a christian, other than HS of course.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "Why would I look for reasons that are false when I already know the truth. That would be like knowing that 2+2 = 4 and still checking that 197 + 27469 doesn't equal 4. Such an exercise doesn't accomplish anything but wasting time."
      But you aren't claiming that 2 + 2 equals 4. You claim it equals "Wednesday". There is no rational case to be made for your fairy tale.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
    • Topher

      0G – Can you articulate an argument? Or are you only able to insult. That's usually what people resort to when they've been beaten in a debate.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:20 pm |
    • Topher

      LinCA. If I could prove it, it wouldn't be faith now, would it. If God simply revealed himself to everyone as plainly as obviously as you require, it would essentially negate free will. Worshiping Him would be such obvious thing to do as to be pointless. God must remain mysterious for us to have free will.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      What I mean by intellectual laziness is that you never ask how god did something, or why, or even what could we predict based upon this information. You accept "god did it" and move on without any further inquiry. Accepting "the flying spaghetti monster did it." makes just as much sense.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:22 pm |
    • just sayin

      Topher, I have provided... I urge you to read more on the Sumerians....3000 -2500 BCE. So back to my question...Do you have ANY archaeological evidence prior to 500 BCE to support/collaborate your source (OT)? I am not sure how esle I can word my question to assist you but you still have not answered the direct question.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • Topher

      Heubert – if I claimed to know why or how God did something, then I would be guilty of pride. I've learned my lessons from the Babylonians. I do not claim to know the mind of God – no human can.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:24 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      You said, "LinCA. If I could prove it, it wouldn't be faith now, would it."
      So, no different from believing in the Tooth Fairy then. Thank you for clearing that up.

      Care to address my first question now?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • Topher

      You people are too easy. Poe's law is simply too easy to prove.

      I'd recommend you all turn off your computers for a bit, get outside, and enjoy the day.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • BRC

      @Topher,
      The argument that "God" revealing himself would negate free will is 1) incorrect 2) a direct contradiction to what you (and many other bek=lievers) say all the time.

      1) Knowing that "God" is real and tehn deciding whether or not to follow and worship him would be the seence of free will. It would be making a decision knowing all the facts and consequences. And before you say "everyone would follow him", no, I wouldn't. And I know plenty of other people that wouldn't either (some will probably be chiming in about now). To withhold vital information and then have people gamble on faith and threats does not encourage freewill. If that is trully the way "God" wants it to go then he is manipulative and coniving, add that to his many wonderful attributes.

      2)In this very exchange you have said that all of Creation is evidence of "God's" existence. People constantly say that if you honestly reach to "God" he will answer and you will know him in your heart. So according to you he's not exactly hiding. People say he speaks to them, they feel his presence... that wouldn't be taking his existence on faith, that would be reacting to stimulus (I think those people are delusional, but they are going with what they percieve). You're giving "God" a lot of different MOs. He'll make himself known, if you ask, and he he wants you to follow him, but he wants it to be based on faith, though if you look for him you'll know he's there? That doesn't make any sense.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:31 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      Topher, I and many others have presented very clear and logical arguments as to why religion is most likely 100% bullshit. You apparently refuse to see the merit of these arguments or to do any work to validate them, other than reading The Babble. You also fail to realize, at this very time, few if anyone, are actually having a discussion with you – they are pushing your buttons to make a fool of you, as you have made a fool of yourself in past "discussions." The best reason to stop "talking" with you is because playing with you comes close to cruel and unusal punishment of a mentally deficient person, and that is not a good thing to do.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
    • Topher

      Life's too short to waste on these blogs. Close your browser and go enjoy your life.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:34 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      LinCA, what makes you believe that you are an adult, intelligent, or other wise? Oh, because you aged chronologically?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Topher

      And life's CERTAINLY too short to waste on HS' ramblings. Go forth and do something productive.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      And off he goes, in a puff of gas...

      July 24, 2012 at 12:39 pm |
    • LinCA

      @HeavenSent

      You said, "LinCA, what makes you believe that you are an adult, intelligent, or other wise? Oh, because you aged chronologically?"
      Questioning the mental age of believers hardly requires me to be an adult. I don't recall claiming to be one. Can you point me to the post that led you to believe I was one?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm |
    • just sayin

      *crickets*

      July 24, 2012 at 12:43 pm |
    • Topher

      Here's a proposed Poe's corollary – even when revealing yourself as a Poe, some people will continue to think you're for real.

      This would make for an interesting psych study....

      July 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • Wally Moosepimple

      Tophu didn't go anywhere.

      He just thought he sounded so wise by babbling out a platiture like "Life's too short to waste on these blogs. Close your browser and go enjoy your life" not realizing the inevitable hypocrisy of his words. He will continue today, and he will keep showing up again and again, not closing his browser, not enjoying life.

      When people lie and deceive and violate all sorts of Christian teachings while trying to sell Christianity, they also cluelesslly fail to take their own advice.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • just sayin

      Doesnt matter if you are a poe or not. This convo still helps reveal some of the insanity

      July 24, 2012 at 12:53 pm |
    • OTOH

      Topher,
      "Here's a proposed Poe's corollary – even when revealing yourself as a Poe, some people will continue to think you're for real."

      On these blogs we have the additional red herring of having unregistered screen names, therefore what is posted could just as easily be from an impostor.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:54 pm |
    • Topher

      Seems like some education is in order. For those of you who don't know Poe's law, here it is:

      "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

      July 24, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • Topher

      @just – taking Einstein's defintion, it would seem we're all the same.

      Time for me to take my own advice. Productivity awaits.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Topher

      May I call you Chris? I suspect your friends do.

      Some of us don't have the option to close our browsers. Some of us are stuck at work and have to kill the time.
      "911, Emergency response. Can you hold?"

      You said, "Here's a proposed Poe's corollary – even when revealing yourself as a Poe, some people will continue to think you're for real."
      Now that you claim to not be a fundie, would you care to answer my questions? Care to reveal your real position on them?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Huebert

      Topher

      I never said that you claimed to know the mind of god (your words). I said that you never even attempted to figure it out. From your response you seem to consider curiosity and a lust for learning to be a sin. Why so?

      July 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Topher, remember, you can only throw His seeds. God does the watering.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      LinCA, you posted "@Topher, How come otherwise intelligent adults can't seem to shake this infantile belief?"

      July 24, 2012 at 7:55 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      LynCA and all the other doubters of His truth. Read this while you are denying Him.

      Mark 16:15-16

      15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
      16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

      Amen.

      And now you know why Christians are on this site so that you that deny Him know His truth.

      July 24, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You DO realize that Topher just admitted he's not a believer, don't you?

      July 24, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      fred, there certainly IS disagreement that any such thing as "fine tuning" exists as far as science is concerned. You're becoming a caricature.

      July 24, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
  5. Robert Brown

    Except for a handful of truly deranged individuals, I don’t think there are very many atheists, agnostic yes, atheist no. Oh some claim it on an anonymous forum, and others claim it publicly for the sensationalism and notoriety, to spur debate, I’m talking about deep down, that little girl or boy in you, in your heart, you can’t honestly say, I know there is no God. “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). The word fool in the Hebrew means “insane.”

    July 24, 2012 at 10:18 am |
    • JWT

      And you would be so very wrong.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • Who invited me?

      By your own logic....there are no true believers. If they are in a better place when they die, why do you cry at funerals?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Yes, deep in the hearts of men, we all know that that either Angus, Belenos, Brigid, dana, Lugh, Dagda, Epona, Aphrodite, Apollo, Ares, Artemis, Atehna, Demeter, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Gaia, Hades, Hekate, Helios, Hephaestus, Hera, hermes, Hestia, Pan, Poseidon, Selene, Uranus, Zeus, Mathilde, Elves, Eostre, Frigg, Hretha, Saxnot, Shef, Thuno, Tir, Weyland, Woden, Alfar, Balder, Beyla, Bil, Bragi, Byggvir, Dagr, Disir, Eir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigga, Heimdall, Hel, Hoenir, Idunn, Jord, Lofn, Loki, Mon, Njord, Norns, Nott, Odin, Ran, saga, Sif, Siofn, Skadi, Snotra, Sol, Syn, Ull, Thor, Tyr, Var, Vali, Vidar, Vor, Black Shuck, Herne, Jack in the Green, Holda, Nehalennia, Nerthus, endovelicus, Ataegina, Runesocesius, Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Cupid, Diana, Janus, Juno, Jupiter, Maia, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Plutus, Proserpina, Venus, Vesta, Vulcan, Attis, Cybele, El-Gabal, Isis, Mithras, Sol Invictus, Endovelicus, Anubis, Aten, Atum, Bast, Bes, Geb, Hapi, Hathor, Heget, Horus, Imhotep, Isis, Khepry, Khnum, Maahes, Ma’at, Menhit, Mont, Naunet, Neith, Nephthys, Nut, Osiris, Ptah, ra, Sekhmnet, Sobek, Set, Tefnut, Thoth, An, Anshar, Anu, Apsu, Ashur, Damkina, Ea, Enki, Enlil, Ereshkigal, Nunurta, Hadad, Inanna, Ishtar, Kingu, Kishar, Marduk, Mummu, Nabu, Nammu, Nanna, Nergal, Ninhursag, Ninlil, Nintu, Shamash, Sin, Tiamat, Utu, Mitra, Amaterasu, Susanoo, Tsukiyomi, Inari, Tengu, Izanami, Izanagi, Daikoku, Ebisu, Benzaiten, Bishamonten, Fu.kurokuju, Jurojin, Hotei, Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, Inti, Kon, Mama Cocha, Mama Quilla, Manco Capac, Pachacamac, Viracoc.ha, or Zaramama is out there.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:33 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Who invited? We cry at funerals because we miss and mourn the person that took his/her journey back to the Lord. We celebrate his/her life and we know as humans living on this earth we won't see that person until we are back with the Lord too.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You're fucking clueless.

      You said, "I don’t think there are very many atheists, agnostic yes, atheist no."
      Your ignorance is showing. Atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive, moron.

      You said, "I’m talking about deep down, that little girl or boy in you, in your heart, you can’t honestly say, I know there is no God."
      The odds that there are any gods is so ridiculously, infinitesimally small that it is insane to spend any time worshiping any. The christian god is even impossible to exist. You have to be completely deluded to seriously believe it exists.

      You said, "“The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1). The word fool in the Hebrew means “insane.”"
      Atheists aren't the adults still believing in the Tooth Fairy. You may want to take a close look in the mirror before you call them "fools".

      It is truly sad that a nation as advanced as the US hasn't been able to get a large part of it's population to shed the infantile beliefs. I can understand that it is hard for those that are mentally impaired to shed the delusions they are brought up with, but I find it disturbing that some 80% of the population appear to be mentally impaired.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • *facepalm*

      Robert, repeat this over and over until it sinks in:

      Atheism and Agnosticism are not mutually exclusive.

      Very christian of you to resort to name calling in just your first sentence. Your savior would be so proud!

      July 24, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • Albert Einstein

      "Hebrew means “insane.”"

      Insanity:repeating the same mistakes over and over again and expecting different results. Now that explains Christianity.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:49 am |
    • Who invited me?

      and Ein Stein means one beer.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:51 am |
    • LinCA

      @Who invited me?

      You said, "and Ein Stein means one beer."
      Actually it means one stone, or brick.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      It would seem Robert's comment is what is "spurring debate". When you're dealing with semantics the argument gets lost very quickly. I prefer to just not use a label. Whatever I call myself is not as important as the discussion itself. Instead of asking if a person is an athiest or not, just ask, "Do you believe in God?", the way the question is answered will tell you much more about the person.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • Robert Brown

      JWT,
      “And you would be so very wrong.”
      & It wouldn’t be the first time.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Who invited me?,
      No, that was God’s opinion. We do believe those who leave this world are in a better place. Wouldn’t you agree that the separation and loss every how temporary is enough for grief. We know we will meet again but there is still sadness.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:07 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Albert Einstein, repeat "Unique New York" ... 3 times as fast as you can. Getting tongue tied and not knowing what you say is the atheist.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Doc Vestibule,
      I know it is not a popularity contest but do you really personally know anyone who worships one of those in your list?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Bobby Brown
      I am not deranged and yet I am an atheist. I say that I believe there are no gods, except for those in individuals own heads. Thousands of gods have been created by men, and most have been discarded, forgotten. Why do you think your version of the one true god is the correct one out of the thousands that man created?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,
      If I was your momma I’d wash your mouth out with soap.
      How many people do you know who worship the tooth fairy? It is silly to compare Almighty God to such things. So, while it plays well with those who think like you it actually makes no sense at all.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • myweightinwords

      @Robert

      Doc Vestibule,
      I know it is not a popularity contest but do you really personally know anyone who worships one of those in your list?

      I'm not Doc, and "worship" is one of those tricky Christian words, but as a Pagan, I know many people who serve/believe in/work with any number of those gods.

      You'd be surprised how many Pagans there are today. Most that I know don't "worship" per se, as I said that's a very Christian word that denotes a one way adoration that just doesn't fit into most Pagan practice.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • Robert Brown

      *facepalm*,
      Ok, sorry. Name calling is not nice. My word choice was poor in paraphrasing the word of God. But it has been my experience thus far on here that most who start out proclaiming atheism wind up at agnostic by the time the discussion is over.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • BRC

      @Robert Brown,
      Fine, if you think LinCA's example is insulting, try this. Why is your belief in your "God" any more realistic than belief in Vishnu or Shiva, gods of a religion that LONG predates yours, and still has a strong following?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:25 am |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "If I was your momma I’d wash your mouth out with soap."
      I have to wonder where yours was when you wrote your tripe. Did she leave for work and left you home alone?

      You said, "How many people do you know who worship the tooth fairy?"
      Just because parents don't reinforce the belief in the Tooth Fairy when their children start to doubt it, as they do a belief in your imaginary friend, doesn't mean that one has more merit than the other.

      You said, "It is silly to compare Almighty God to such things."
      Merit of any belief lies, exclusively, in the evidence in support. Considering there is equal evidence for both, they ave equal merit. If you wish for your god story to have any merit, you'll have to bring some evidence.

      You said, "So, while it plays well with those who think like you it actually makes no sense at all."
      I realize that you have to have both the ability and the willingness to apply logic and sound reasoning for it to make sense, but that doesn't mean I should stop trying to encourage you to do so. I can't tell whether you have the ability to apply logic and reasoning, but I have to assume that you are willing (why engage in a discussion otherwise, right?).

      If you spout that obvious bullshit, you should expect to be called on it. You are free to remain ignorant and believe whatever nonsense you like. It's a free country and stupidity isn't illegal, but if you don't want your views challenged, you should keep them to yourself.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Lunchbreaker,
      Yes, I admit it was a spurring comment and I agree the question does reveal a lot. I do believe that a lot of our commenters here are agnostic, very few state emphatically that there is no God.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:28 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Who invited me?,
      Mine is the only one I know.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • *facepalm*

      Robert, I'm guessing that the vast majority of atheists on here would identify, and always have, as agnostic atheists – as I do. The clear majority of atheists that I know are not so arrogant as to claim to have definitive knowledge of any particular area.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Bobby Brown
      Yours is not the only one you know. You know the names of the planets...all named for other gods. You know the names of the days of the week...5 named for other gods.
      You know your god just as well as you know all of the others, why again, do you think that your one true god is the right one, and discard all of the others?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      I just prefer to use non-believer.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:42 am |
    • Robert Brown

      Myweightinwords,
      I think you misunderstand Christianity. The worship is not at all one way.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • AverageJoe76

      The most logical approach is to be agnostic. The question that drives this Belief Blog is far too big for us to answer, and dare I say 'impossible'. I doubt we'll EVER run into our Creator. Whether it be the singularity or some immensely powerful being. We may not even be on the same dimensional plane as 'The Creator'. My question is; "Why are we driving ourselves batty about something you'll NEVER, EVER....... never-ever-never-ever-never be ABLE TO PROVE without a SHADOW of a doubt. EVER! NEVER! Call the immensely powerful being, bring him to my house in a lamp that I may rub to release him. For atheists – to say "there is DEFINITELY No God" – eeeeeeh..... I hear ya, I really, really do... but...agian, we cannot prove it. We can't. It's an inescapable thing that it cannot be proven. But how do you NOT prove the exsistence of a unicorn? You can't. So Atheists are stuck right there. I say, whatever created us, did it's job... now.. we have a job to do. Evolve. Survive.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • myweightinwords

      @Robert, I think you misunderstand Christianity. The worship is not at all one way.

      I understand it fine. Or are you saying that YHWH worships you too? He demands blind obedience and worship and return gives you...what exactly? A promise that when you die everything will be better?

      Seems very one sided to me.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      Of course Robert is playing a dishonest little word game. He knows, as many have replied, that rational people will not claim to have perfect knowledge so when push comes to shove, atheists have to admit that we do not have perfect knowledge therefore it is possible that some god exists somewhere. This admission allowing the existence of some god is victory for Robert and allows him to keep on believing his silliness.

      Now Robert, given that you have scored this impressive victory over us heathen atheists, please tell us if you *know* there is a god, without or without his alleged buddy jesus? Do you have the honesty to admit that you do not? Will you go farther and admit that given the absolute lack of evidence for your alleged sky fairies and the period of time mankind has been searching for them, the probability of there being any gods is virtually zero? Will you then admit that you profess to believe something without having any good reason to do so? Come on, admit it, there's a voice in your head that every once in a while, probably more often than you will admit, that says "religion is junk!"

      July 24, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      BRC,
      I had never heard of either till I started reading and commenting on this blog. I looked them up but I have to admit I have completely forgot everything I read and have no motivation to look again. I have been born again so while I enjoy learning I have no desire to seek out something else to worship. No offense to follows of those, but I believe there is only one God.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • BRC

      @Robert,
      Not really asking for a dissertation on them, it's a simple quesiton. What makes your religion right and theirs wrong? OR is you ranswer that you haven't studied other religions, so you don't know why they're false, but you believe yours is true and it says they are (it doesn't) so they must be?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      LinCA,
      Ok, now were getting down to where the rubber meets the road, you require evidence of God. You as a God denier have considered the evidence submitted and found it all lacking, right? So, you need verifiable repeatable testable evidence? Which if provided and tested, repeated, and verified would really be proof instead of evidence? For your sake and anyone else who needs something more I hope you get whatever it is you need. Like another poster said “God had to hit me in the back of the head with a 2×4 before I would believe him.” He can make a believer out of you if he chooses and I hope he does.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Who invited me?,
      The biggest reason I reject all the others is because God has saved me and indwells me with his holy spirit. I have fellowship or communication with God, if you will. Do you think it would be possible for me to reject him? I don’t.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Eric G

      @Robert Brown: I am an atheist because no religion, person, follower has ever satisfied the burden of proof inherent to their claims that a god or gods exist or existed.

      You must satisfy the burden of proof.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      AverageJoe76,
      I have met the creator Joe, albeit spiritually, and so can you, if your faith grows from the point of believing he is a possibility, to the place where you know you can’t go on without him.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      And one last thing; arguing over invisible spirits, and what the invisible spirits intended.... has wasted some good brain power and life energy over our exsistence. We've wasted OODLES of time over this. People dedicate their entire lives to invisibility. Humans are special. What other organism can make a life off of invisible elements?

      July 24, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Robert Brown

      You said, "Ok, now were getting down to where the rubber meets the road, you require evidence of God."
      Nothing new here. That's been my point from the start.

      You said, "You as a God denier have considered the evidence submitted and found it all lacking, right?"
      I wouldn't call myself a "god denier", as it still could cause someone to believe that I have some significant amount of doubt about there being any. But I'd have to agree that there isn't any evidence for any. What has been proposed as "evidence" is not just lacking, it's laughable.

      You said, "For your sake and anyone else who needs something more I hope you get whatever it is you need. Like another poster said “God had to hit me in the back of the head with a 2×4 before I would believe him.” He can make a believer out of you if he chooses and I hope he does."
      In other words, you've got nothing but your delusion and infantile beliefs in the Tooth Fairy. Got it.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      Myweightinwords,
      Oh no, God does not worship me or anyone else, that is not what I meant by not one sided. I mean we worship him and he blesses us spiritually. He dwells within us in form of his Holy Spirit, which if we yield to, leads and guides us in what we do, a friend that sticks closer than a broth.er.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:15 pm |
    • Eric G

      @Robert Brown: Please provide an example of any other aspect of your life that you make decisions without verifiable evidence.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns,
      I’ll admit to using the words to engage in discussion, but you have misinterpreted my motivation. No victory for Robert. If you believe I comment on here for Robert you are missing the point. We are called to spread the good news. The rest is up to and for the glory of God. If you think believers never have doubts, wrong again. That would be perfect faith and I have yet to meet anyone with it, including myself. Faith is weak when we yield to the flesh and stronger when we yield to the spirit.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • AverageJoe76

      @Robert Brown – I hear, and respect where you're coming from. And I appreciate you trying to help me. But I tried speaking to God, and it honestly felt like I was talking to myself. It's basically been a self-generated conversation between me posing a question, then searching my conscious for the answer in a Godly voice. Now, I don't know if that's how it's supposed to work, but there's no instructions as to how it's supposed to work. If there's a God, it's a lot more complicated than anything we've ever scribed. And it didn't leave instructions universally agreed upon. Now that's something you'd think a supreme being would be able to accomplish; accord amongst it's creations.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:23 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      BRC,
      No, I will admit that haven’t studied other religions, I have learned a little about some of them, but very little. I don’t spend much effort denying other beliefs. I know in whom I have believed because his spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am his. Why would I look elsewhere?

      July 24, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • Who invited me?

      Bobby Brown
      That is the best answer I have heard from you and a shining bright example of why religion should be avoided. You do not want to know waht truth is, you want to stay with your head buried believing the random beleif system you have chosen.
      Ignorance is bliss, and you are happy as can be.
      I'm done with this guy. Next "witness"

      July 24, 2012 at 1:32 pm |
    • fred

      BRC
      The basic reason I see that the Bible reflects the one true God is (as Robert Said) the profound experience I had when God came into my life. It was Christ not the Church of Scientology etc.
      Being agnostic prior to that point I can still recall how the things of the Bible appeared nothing but old time myth. Aside from a personal experience the Bible is the only “Scripture” or story of God /gods that gets the cosmology right. The Bible shows God in the beginning create the physical existence we know from that which was not physical or material. In other words God created from nothing whereas other manmade gods created from the physical and material. That is the first big clue that the others are not only manmade but they get it wrong right off the bat.
      The Bible shows God creating suddenly and from one point which is that singularity event science leans towards. The Bible gets causation right as it says God was not of this space and time when our universe was created. The Bible gets creation timeline right: nothingness=> singularity => earth a formless mass =>light => atmosphere and water =>vegetation => animals => man.
      All the other god stories get it wrong.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
    • Robert Brown

      AverageJoe76,
      I think he has made it universally agreed upon and it is tried and true. You have probably heard this stuff before but maybe stating it in a different way will help. Call upon the lord while he is near. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Seek and you will find.
      By what you wrote you have obviously sought and I hope you continue. If you are seeking you have some faith and it can be increased. Go and hear the word of God preached in the power of his holy spirit. Read the bible and find a place where they are preaching and teaching what is in the bible. If what the pastor says is not in the book, go somewhere else. You will know when you are in the right place. When you hear the word, you will realize that you are a sinner in need of a savior. When you pray with that realization, with a broken heart and contrite spirit, that is when God will respond, that is when he will find you.
      Don’t take my word for it. You don’t know me and have no reason to trust what I am posting. Ask a pastor face to face if what I have described is the way. Ask as many as you like. I think you will find there is no dispute. God bless.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • BRC

      @fred,
      Interesting, what you say the timline is, and what the bible says the timeline is, are not the same. You've tried to make the depiction in the Bible seem more plausible, the problem is, it doesn't work. Light, pure blinding overwehlmingly bright energy would be the first product (all across the spectrum)., then the rest of the universe would form, then eventually much much much much later AFTER the sun forms, the earth would form, and our planet would develope from there (you're right, land came before water, but the bible says otherwise).

      You can use the Bible for a lot of things, but you CANNOT realistically use Genesis as an accurate description of how teh universe was formed, we KNOW it's wrong, we can prove it.
      nothingness=> singularity => earth a formless mass =>light => atmosphere and water =>vegetation => animals => man

      July 24, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      @Robert,

      Oh no, God does not worship me or anyone else, that is not what I meant by not one sided. I mean we worship him and he blesses us spiritually. He dwells within us in form of his Holy Spirit, which if we yield to, leads and guides us in what we do, a friend that sticks closer than a broth.er.

      Having been a Christian for a number of years, I am familiar with the return on investment. I found it lacking. That combined with a thorough study of the faith, the history, etc, led me to walk away.

      It took my a long time and a lot of searching to find a faith that works for me, a lot of study of a lot of religion and history. I did not come to what I believe lightly or simply because a book told me to.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
    • Cq

      Robert Brown
      Atheism is just taking the position that gods are not real. More than likely you yourself do not believe that every god in world religion and mythology is real, yes? Now, are you agnostic in this belief, thinking that you could possibly be proven wrong about Thor or Zeus some day, or do you live your life as though these gods had never been real to begin with? If the latter, then why isn't it just as reasonable to live your life as though YHWH were just another of these fictional beings called gods?

      July 24, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • Cq

      HeavenSent
      Perhaps you cry at funerals because you have no idea whether the deceased ended up in heaven, hell, or nowhere at all, right? Even if you firmly believe in heaven and hell, you still don't know where they went. Uncle Joe may have gone to church faithfully every Sunday, marched against gay marriage and did all the other things people are supposed to do within his Christian community, but he could have secretly been a serial killer, or just going through the motions of keeping up appearances. Just because somebody "looks" like a good Christian doesn't mean that they are, or even that they're good people for that matter. You can't be certain who gets into heaven either.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
    • fred

      BRC
      Ouch!
      In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth (heavens and earth are Hebrew for all known physical matter including light spectrum we can see as they did not have a word for universe).
      Now the earth was formless, empty and darkness was over the waters then God said let there be light. Here I see your point as light appears to be introduced after the singularity. However, God separated the light from the darkness and there was evening and morning –the first day. We are now speaking of earth not the big bang.
      As to land and water on earth one theory holds that the earth was covered with water 3,000 meters deep when it was hit by large object that vaporized the surface leaving but a thin atmosphere and some water. This was the second day in the creation story where God separated the water into sky and water below. On day three God gathered the waters into the seas leaving the land exposed.
      Are we ok with the creation story through day three?

      July 24, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      Robert, you have made a good start on dealing with your delusions. Now how about answering my questions with less mumbo-jumbo – they pretty much only require yes / no answers. You asked for and got straight forward answers from atheists – it looks like you don't want to do the same.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      The point is, and I've tried to make this point in the other article at well, that the bible does not match up with science.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • fred

      Hawaiiguest
      Correct the Bible is not a science book however I would need to change my thinking if the initial creation event is false.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Then don't fucking pretend, like you have been, that it matches up perfectly with what we know about the formation of starts and planets! Seriously you just admit it's not a science book!

      July 24, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      The Bible is the Divine word of God that addresses our soul and that which is outside the known boundaries of science. You are free to reject God for your own personal reasons but not on the basis of scientific evidence.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Wow, so first you make the idiotic claim that bible creation matches o well with scientific fact, then when shown that you are WRONG, you go with "Oh it's faith, not science. You need to trust the Word of God". This is always the biggest problem with people like you fred, you can't admit that you were fucking wrong.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • LinCA

      @hawaiiguest

      It may be time to take your own advice in regards to fred.
      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/comment-page-86/#comment-1483586

      July 24, 2012 at 3:43 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @LinCA

      You might be right. It's just so hard for me to see that amount of stupidity, or misinformation, and jut sit back and not call him on it.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • LinCA

      @hawaiiguest

      You said, "You might be right. It's just so hard for me to see that amount of stupidity, or misinformation, and jut sit back and not call him on it."
      I feel your pain. But there is only so much you can do. So many idiots, so little time.

      July 24, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Exactly where do you find fault with the biblical timeline of creation through day 3 where the oceans were gathered?

      July 24, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "Exactly where do you find fault with the biblical timeline of creation through day 3 where the oceans were gathered?"
      It's clearly faulty for the simple reason that it is in the bible. That alone should cause anyone with half a brain to not take it literal, or even serious.

      Your bible is so obviously full of horseshit that it should not be used for anything (aside from kindling, perhaps).

      July 24, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Let me interpret what you just said; “I don’t know how the biblical timeline through day 3 is wrong from a scientific standpoint so I will just call an inanimate object names”.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:32 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      I've pointed out the problems to you, and all you do is just rationalize away. I don't know why you bother asking fed, when you're obviously not open to answers, and will just rationalize anything away to keep your view intact.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "Let me interpret what you just said; “I don’t know how the biblical timeline through day 3 is wrong from a scientific standpoint so I will just call an inanimate object names”."
      Now why am I not surprised you got it wrong.

      It is entirely irrelevant what it says in the bible. If there is anything in it that happens to agree with an actual historical occurrence, it is sheer coincidence. The bible is a collection of ancient myths and fables. Any similarity to reality is pure coincidental.

      Let me see if I can summarize it for you:
      – If, on any subject, science and religion disagree, religion is wrong. No exception.
      – If, on any subject, science and religion agree, it is coincidental.

      There is no truth to be found in the bible that isn't available from far more reliable sources.

      July 24, 2012 at 4:42 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      It is not about science verses the Bible as they deal with different aspects of reality and complement each other. That is not the issue. Science and Genesis by coincidence agree on the general timeline for creation just as by coincidence the Garden of Eden is located in the cradle of civilization. I understand atheists do not deal well with coincidence even if the odds are 1 in 10 to the power of 758 that such a coincidence should occur.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:10 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "It is not about science verses the Bible as they deal with different aspects of reality and complement each other."
      Bullshit. Knowledge comes from evidence and solid reasoning. Science has all of that and the bible none. The only place where science and the bible "complement each other" is where science doesn't provide an answer (yet). The bible only fills in the blanks with unsubstantiated garbage.

      There is no value in the "information" that the bible provides.

      You said, "I understand atheists do not deal well with coincidence even if the odds are 1 in 10 to the power of 758 that such a coincidence should occur."
      You assume there to be coincidences where there are none. The only way to create your "coincidence" is by twisting both what your particular version of the bible says, and disregarding what science says where you can't.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Your reasoning does not hold. Given our increased knowledge we should be constantly moving towards proof that there is no God or need for God. Regrettably, the more we learn about the origin of life and the origin of our universe the more we discover unexplainable fine tuning. We now know that the power and scope of the unknown force that is accelerating the expansion of our universe must mathematically exist outside our 4 dimension. That force outside our space and time is not in dispute. By coincidence the Bible referred to God as creating the universe from outside of our known 4 dimensions.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      That argument was settled on July 2, 2012 at 6:02 pm (EDT) when you, in reply to me saying, “Without a preconceived notion of a god creating the whole thing, you can't logically get there”, said "Ok, agreed."

      See: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/comment-page-86/#comment-1493185

      Feel free to reread that entire thread.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Cq, don't rewrite what I posted to suit your needs. I mourn for those that went back to the Lord because I will miss them ... until I meet with them again when I die and go back to the Lord. Don't fool yourself. Anyone that seeks God will find Him and understand His love. Everyone is on their own path to loving and follow Him. It's a life journey. Those that don't automatically go to the wrong side of the divide, then, it's summer school for 1000 years for you.

      July 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Correct because I would insert God as that force and Hawking who is opposed to God has inserted M theory.
      You were supposed to fall down on your knees and ask how in the world could some sheepherder have known that 2,000 years ago!

      July 24, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
    • LinCA

      @fred

      You said, "You were supposed to fall down on your knees and ask how in the world could some sheepherder have known that 2,000 years ago!"
      I do other things when I get down on my knees.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • fred

      LinCA
      Great news cause my floors really need some scrubbing. Now there is a coincidence.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Still using a faulty fine tuning argument I see.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • fred

      Hawaiiguest
      There is no argument in the scientific community that fine tuning exists and the implications. Perhaps Einstein can get through to you:
      "I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the atti-tude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations."

      July 24, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      1. Albert Einstein: God is a Product of Human Weakness
      The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.

      Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954
      2. Albert Einstein & Spinoza's God: Harmony in the Universe
      I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

      – Albert Einstein, responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein's question "Do you believe in God?" quoted in: Has Science Found God?, by Victor J Stenger
      3. Albert Einstein: It is a Lie that I Believe in a Personal God
      It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

      – Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman
      4. Albert Einstein: Human Fantasy Created Gods
      During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.

      – Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught
      5. Albert Einstein: Idea of a Personal God is Childlike
      I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being.

      – Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2
      6. Albert Einstein: Idea of a Personal God Cannot be Taken Seriously
      It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

      – Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
      7. Albert Einstein: Desire for Guidance & Love Creates Belief in Gods
      The desire for guidance, love, and support prompts men to form the social or moral conception of God. This is the God of Providence, who protects, disposes, rewards, and punishes; the God who, according to the limits of the believer's outlook, loves and cherishes the life of the tribe or of the human race, or even or life itself; the comforter in sorrow and unsatisfied longing; he who preserves the souls of the dead. This is the social or moral conception of God.

      – Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
      8. Albert Einstein: Morality Concerns Humanity, Not Gods
      I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.

      – Albert Einstein, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman
      9. Albert Einstein: Scientists Can Hardly Believe in Prayers to Supernatural Beings
      Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a Supernatural Being.

      – Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if scientists pray; quoted in: Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffmann
      10. Albert Einstein: Few Rise Above Anthropomorphic Gods
      Common to all these types is the anthropomorphic character of their conception of God. In general, only individuals of exceptional endowments, and exceptionally high-minded communities, rise to any considerable extent above this level. But there is a third stage of religious experience which belongs to all of them, even though it is rarely found in a pure form: I shall call it cosmic religious feeling. It is very difficult to elucidate this feeling to anyone who is entirely without it, especially as there is no anthropomorphic conception of God corresponding to it.

      – Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
      11. Albert Einstein: Concept of a Personal God is the Main Source of Conflict
      Nobody, certainly, will deny that the idea of the existence of an omnipotent, just, and omnibeneficent personal God is able to accord man solace, help, and guidance; also, by virtue of its simplicity it is accessible to the most undeveloped mind. But, on the other hand, there are decisive weaknesses attached to this idea in itself, which have been painfully felt since the beginning of history. ...

      – Albert Einstein, Science and Religion (1941)
      12. Albert Einstein: Divine Will Cannot Cause Natural Events
      The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exist as an independent cause of natural events. ...

      – Albert Einstein, Science and Religion (1941)

      July 24, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, ghouls, goblins or guns

      The above was for the moron known as "fred" and is from http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingodreligion/tp/Einstein-on-a-Personal-God.htm.

      July 24, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Yes yes we all know you can quote mine to support whatever drivel you want. Tell me, is there anything out there that clearly states that fine tuning, in the context that you use the term, is not in debate within the scientific community? Because the way you use the term, would mean that every single scientist would be a theist, or at least a deist.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      Yes, every intellectually honest scientist should be a deist at minimum. No, not all scientists are deist based on fine tuning or other apologetic reasons for God. The most recent pew study shows 29% of scientists are atheist or agnostic.

      July 25, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      This might be to much to ask for, but could you possibly, just once, respond to the entire post instead of picking and choosing like you do with your bible?

      July 25, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
  6. William Demuth

    Does anyone want to wager the Aurora shooter's family were Jeebus freaks?

    Drove the guy mad with their nonesense no doubt!

    July 24, 2012 at 9:42 am |
    • Who invited me?

      No doubt isn't nonsense...they were a good band.
      Now, that Gwen Stefani could drive a man mad!!!!

      July 24, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • William Demuth

      Gwen ROCKS

      I saw her break her leg early in her career. I knew she was gonna be big

      July 24, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Bo

      Call them “jeebus freaks” if you wish, but statistics are in favor of the family being religious. However, the over whelming stats would not bear up your opinion that the religious lifestyle of the family would drive the shooter to this degree of insanity. Most religious people are not fanatical, none-the-less there are many fanatical religious people, but they do not drive their off-spring to this level of insanity. If that were true there would be a lot more mass killings or some other high crime offenders.
      I think you are close to being a sociopath.

      "Lone-wolf terrorists are extremely intelligent and often come from very good socio-economic backgrounds," said Todd McGhee, a former Massachusetts state trooper who is now managing partner of Protecting the Homeland Innovations, a security training firm in Braintree, Mass.

      "But they become despondent. They become isolated from family members. Then they grab on to an ideology. Some people find religion. Some people find anti-government," he said.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      In his family and community of Christian brotherhood he learned love, compassion, forgiveness, honesty, decency, and all Jesus' truth. In the work environment he found some of Jesus' truth, but a lot of satan's lies thrown into the mix.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:47 am |
    • MaryM

      @Bo
      Trying to jive all the contradictions in the bible alone is enough to drive men mad, or haven't you read any of the lives of the great theologians?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
    • FYI

      MaryM,

      jive = 1) swing music or the dancing performed to it : 2) glib, deceptive, or foolish talk

      jibe = to be in accord; agree

      July 24, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • MaryM

      FYI
      Sorry, spelling police.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
  7. HeavenSent

    What this world needs is a Motown revue with the Funk Brothers as back up and all the artist playing their soul over and over again until this younger generation gets it.

    July 24, 2012 at 9:19 am |
    • William Demuth

      Where is Bootsie Collins when you need him!

      July 24, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • HeavenSent

      As Marvin said "what's going on"?

      July 24, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Becuase there's nothing more pure and godly than a Marvin Gaye song.
      Who doesn't think of Jesus when they hear a wah-wah pedal?

      July 24, 2012 at 9:33 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      You kids and your "motown", now cavemen banging rocks together, that was real music.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:34 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Again Doc, you are wrong. All of those artists are God fearing. That's why they called their music soul.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • William Demuth

      Heaven

      Perhaps if they thought the crazed sheriff with the attack dogs was God, but as I recall it the brothers during that era had alot more to worry about than some fable.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • Who invited me?

      I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell
      but I'll never know from livin', only my dyin' will tell
      Laura Nyro- "and when I die".

      July 24, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • HeavenSent

      William, keep posting. Every time you type, you prove you know nothing. That's what this generation is missing, soul music to get you in touch with your soul.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:46 am |
    • BRC

      I think HeavenSent got confusd when someone called it "baby-making music". It's called sould because it resonated with (some) people and was slow and smooth. At same time, I don't know how "God fearing" the music can really be considering how much pre-, extra-, and post-marrital nookie it has inspired/ been written about.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:47 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, you kids didn't live the 60s, we did and it was those artists and the Funk Brothers that got everyone through. That's why they should be played today, so this generation feels what we felt to get through hard times and move forward.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:51 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      Ahh yes the 60's, a Dacade to serve as a shining beacon for good Christian values. It's not like it involved a wave of acceptance of the concept of free love, exploration into knew spiritualism, a reavluation of morality and ethics, and the first real key stages in recognizing that the idealized "Good Christian Family Values" of the 50's were a lie and a sham, that often enough were just a cover for a an abusive house-hold, treating women like second class citizens, and culuraly engrained and supported bigotry. Yeah, if I was going to pick any time to say "Christian" it would be the 60's.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:55 am |
    • BRC

      I feel like my post would have been better if I had proof read it, but if you overlook the missing letters/poor spelling hopefully it gets the point across.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:57 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      In the 90's kids had Creed :::crickets:::

      July 24, 2012 at 9:59 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Speaking of Motown – if you've never heard The Afghan Whigs, check out their cover of "My World is Empty Without/I Hear a Symphony". They also do a great "Come See About Me" and Marvin Gaye's "I Keep Coming Back"

      July 24, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • William Demuth

      HeavenSent

      You are old, as am I.

      Yet you know NOTHING of music.

      Strange how the Bible keeps some from reality isn't it?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:09 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, as I stated, you folks didn't live the 60s, we did. Unfortunately, you are another one in this generation that wasted money on your education. There's a reason certain folks are ensuring Christianity and Christians are to blame for everything. Point the finger at others, and no one is looking at the one's who truly are to blame.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • HeavenSent

      William, I know what I like and you know how to complain.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:12 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Thanks Doc. I'll check them out.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      "Gonna get it on
      Beggin' you, baby, I want to get it on
      You don't have to worry that it's wrong
      If the spirit moves you, let me groove you good
      Let your love come down
      Oh, get it on, come on, baby"

      Amen.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:16 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, the rebelling was against the establishment, not to go for the brass ring, selling your soul in the process.. There was a lot of good and bad that came out of that decade. One being that money wasn't everything. Look at your generation, money is all there is.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Didn't I start out with Marvin's song of "what's going on"?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:29 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      I didn't blame Christians for anything, save the rant. And it would be difficult for me to waste my money on education (whatever that accusation is supposed to mean) since I went to a Service Academy.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:48 am |
    • MaryM

      @HeavenSent
      I watched Katy Pery's Firework video with my daughter a few weeks back and it really touched my soul. What a wonderful message about acceptance of diversity, and being who you really are. It made me cry.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, did you write that post regarding the Christian family of the 60s was a sham, and the nonsense belief that women didn't have rights? Women have more rights than you are lead to believe. It's the women that ensure Jesus' truth is taught and followed through to ensure righteous outcomes via all the generations. Hey, so they dropped the ball in the 60s and so forth. Life is not over, they can always pick up the baton again and do what Jesus instructed them to do. As far as all Christian families being a sham. I didn't know you met all those families? Again, pathetic teachers in your generation, not knowing Jesus' truth but spouting satan's lies.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      MaryM, I haven't seen it yet. I hope her message hits me the same as it did you.

      God Bless.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      "Ensuring Jesus truth is taught to the next generation" is not what I would call a right. And I'm not saying that all families were bad, but the ideal that older generations have crafted that the time and culture of the 50's was "better" then now is crap. There was bad then, there is bad now, it is ever changing and evershifting. Just because more people said they believed in "God" and publicaly went to church did not make society better.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • MaryM

      HeavenSent
      Just skip the ad, and enjoy 🙂

      [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGJuMBdaqIw&w=640&h=360]

      July 24, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, the older generations actually picked up the Bible and read it. That's why their lives were so much better than the lazy generation we live in today. Their preachers taught God's truth, unlike today when preachers and rabbis tell folks what they want to hear (man made lies to stroke their egos) instead of Jesus' truth. So, yes, the older generations knew the true God and this generation is deceived if they don't pick up the KJV of the Bible and read His truth on their own.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
  8. Doc Vestibule

    An 11 year old boy named Richard Fehr was crushed to death by a fallen tree at Pines Bible Camp in Grand Forks, BC.
    The boy's cabin leader escaped from the cabin relatively unscathed.
    Since "Prayer really changes things", perhaps the other boys prayed for some divine wrath.

    July 24, 2012 at 8:27 am |
    • Who invited me?

      poor kid probably couldn't run with his pants around his ankles.

      July 24, 2012 at 8:28 am |
    • William Demuth

      How cynical of you Doc

      Actually Allah was merely granting the request of a child in Fallujah whoose parents were killed by the Marine Corp.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:15 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Don't worry about Richard, he's back with our Lord on the right side of the gulf. Worry about your soul Doc, if you can find it.

      July 24, 2012 at 9:48 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Heavensent
      So God killed the boy out of love?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:02 am |
    • BRC

      If a tree falls in a forest,
      and sadly kills a child at a Christian retreat,
      is "God" an a-shole?

      July 24, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, that's the problem with you atheists, you believe this world is all there is. Christians know God's promises to us, one being, that Jesus defeated death (sin, aka satan) and that boy is back with Him that created all.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:34 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      What makes you so certain that the boy is with God and not Satan?
      He must have done something to bring down the arboreal wrath of Him that created all.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:38 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Everyone goes back to Jesus who created all. Satan is in Heaven, wrapped in chains, guarded by the cherubim Michael, as we post. Satan's spirit walks the earth to deceive all in human form to get you away from Jesus' truth.

      To clear up any confusion, God and Jesus are the same. God the Holy father sent himself down to earth to walk the walk as Jesus Christ, Immanuel, meaning God with us. Satan has supernatural powers, but, is not God. He wants to be, that's why his sin of pride was his downfall. Satan lies to everyone on earth and will promise you everything and anything, while he takes your soul away from Jesus. That's why Jesus is long suffering ... ensuring that none of His children perish into the eternal flames were satan is going.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:55 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, accidents do happen.

      July 24, 2012 at 10:57 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      If "God" is all powerful adn has a plan, no they don't. Otherwise your "God" isn't very effective.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      If accidents of that nature occur, it means that God is not omnipotent/omniscient/omnipresent/omnibenevolent.
      "Accidents" preclude the exitence of a perfect being.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:31 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, again, you atheists always have it backwards. Man is ineffective due to our sins.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      I'm going to quote you here-
      "HeavenSent
      Doc, accidents do happen."

      Are you saying that because man sinned accidents now happen? Because that would mean we neutralized "God" = not all powerful. Or are you just pointing out tha thumans are inneffective because we can be squished by trees?

      July 24, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc, let me explain Jesus' truth as simply as I can.

      Life is a test from Jesus, who is God. God destroyed the world back in the first earth age (I'm not speaking about Noah's flood, which was regional, not global) because of 1/3 of His angels rebelling with Lucifer to overthrow God. God got angry (wrath) and destroyed the entire world. About a week later (give or take a few days for what a week truly is) God created the world again and allowed all our souls a 2nd chance to love and follow Jesus' truth and live, or love and follow Lucifer's lies and die.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:46 am |
    • Who invited me?

      Heavenspent
      Everytime you say jesus truth, you lie. If not...prove it is true. otherwise change your rhetoric.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, accidents happen in life.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:48 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Who invited me? It's not my fault you follow the lies of the Talmud that was written by the Kenites, son's of Cain, Cain is the son of satan. Kenites pretend they are Jews, and are not.

      July 24, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • BRC

      @HeavenSent,
      I agree, accidents do happen. Except, if you believe in an all powerful "God" who actively controls the universe and crafts our fates (as many denominations do), then , no, you aren't allowed to believe in accidents. If you've ever comforted someone or been comforted by the saying, "It's all part of God's plan", then you can't believe in accidents. IF you have a different denomination that doesn't believe that, fair enough, but why would you Worship "God" then?

      And where in the bible is this story about the true destruction of Earth and our soul's second chance and all that? I don't remember it, but it would have to be pretty early, so I'm pretty sure it didn't mention Jesus's truth.

      July 24, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • Cq

      HeavenSent
      Just because the boy was attending a Bible camp doesn't mean that he was "saved" and ended up in heaven, right? He could have been just a typical kid shipped off like countless others during the summer just to get them from underfoot. You can't just assume to know the things you claim to, can you?

      July 24, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Heavensent
      The First Age of the Earth ended when Morgoth was cast into the Void and the Elves were summoned Valinor.

      July 24, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      "...that Jesus defeated death"

      It wouldn't have been necessary to defeat had it not been created.

      July 24, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, go into the site I've provided and read how they've outlined Jesus' truth so it's easy to comprehend. http://www.biblestudysite.com/1stage.htm

      July 24, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      lunchbreaker, Lucifer created death when he used God's free will that was given him to be blinded by his sin of pride wanting to be bigger and better than God. Like all souls, God wants us to use our free will to love Him, not force your love for Him.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Cq, if memory serves me correct, most kids are just kids, having a great time and loving life.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      BRC, I don't attend church. I haven't since I was a kid. I do however, attend church functions or services due to my friends insisting that I come with them.. Other than that, I read the Bible because my dad asked that I do if I was to stop attending church services. Every day I pick up the Bible to read His truth. Every day, I learn something new even if it's the same scriptures that I've read before. Why? Because the more we read His truth, the more of His truth is revealed. That's why true Christians read His truth daily.

      July 24, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why did you stop going to church, HS?

      July 24, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.