Editor’s note: Rob Brendle is the founding pastor of Denver United Church, a former associate pastor at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, and the author of "In the Meantime: The Practice of Proactive Waiting."
By Rob Brendle, Special to CNN
I held her hand as she died.
Her family had come to a church where I was pastoring that morning, a routine Sunday. A thousand things would never have crossed their minds as they drove through Colorado Springs toward New Life Church’s enormous concrete worship center - including the prospect of being assaulted in their minivan by a young man with a high-powered rifle.
Later that day, we were all at a local hospital. The girl whose hand I held, Rachel, had already lost a sister at the scene. Her father was down the hall in critical condition and her mother was coming undone in the waiting room, but she didn’t know any of it. Rachel lay unconscious for a couple of hours more in the ICU.
And then she died. Her family had come to church together that morning, and by nightfall they were shattered.
That was almost five years ago.
The movie theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado shook me and the rest of the nation. Reading about the young and unsuspecting victims took me back to the dying girl in the ICU who had come to my church that day in 2007, in a an incident that left the two girls dead and injured several others. Back to the Columbine massacre a decade earlier that horrified the world and traumatized Colorado. And back to the aching questions that accompanied those previous incidents: Why did this happen? Where was God in all of it? How could a loving God allow this?
Where was God in Aurora? 7 responses
We pastors face the unenviable task of being asked to answer for God. Most people ask the big questions in times of irresolution, times when satisfying answers are scarce.
Let’s be clear: there are no easy answers to the deepest questions of suffering. Libraries overflow with the volumes that have been written to address these questions. Centuries of philosophers, pundits and preachers have reflected on the existence of evil, the meaning of pain and the role of God in suffering.
I won’t begin to recount all of their ruminations here. But here’s what I think.
God is the author of life and the originator of good. He distinguished humankind from among his creation with faculties like reason, emotion, dexterity and choice. Scripture teaches that God made people in his image. Set apart from all the rest of his creatures, we were endowed with the capacity to know our Creator and ennobled with the ability to choose him. So singularly did God love humans that he gave us this ultimate gift.
Aurora survivor to alleged shooter: ‘I forgive you’
The capacity to choose God and goodness came with the commensurate ability to choose evil. Is it loving to force his creation to follow his order, or to teach it and leave the creature to choose? It would seem that God came to the same conclusion that America’s founders did many millennia later: compulsory virtue is no virtue at all.
But Scripture also teaches that God is totally in control. He is all-powerful and all-knowing and he is willing and able to intervene in human events. So there is a gap between human choice and divine foreknowledge, a gap that transcends understanding and that helps define God in my mind.
The debate over this theological tension has persisted for centuries, and I don’t aim to settle it here. Let me suggest simply that God, in his sovereignty, has chosen to make our decisions meaningful. Consequently, much of what happens on earth neither conforms to nor results from his preference. There are at least four influences on human events: God’s will, to be sure; but also the will of Satan, our adversary; peoples’ choices, for better or for worse; and natural law (gravity, collision, combustion, and the like).
It is difficult to know which force causes the circumstances that devastate us. But it is enough to know that God need not be responsible for them.
The man who made the Aurora crosses
Much of the internal gridlock around tragedy is because suffering is foreign to us. This foreignness is peculiarly Western and modern. Most of the world, for most of the world’s history, has known tragedy and trauma in abundance.
You don’t get nearly the same consternation in Burundi or Burma, because suffering is normal to them. God and hard times coexist intuitively there. For us, though, God has become Anesthetist-in-Chief. To believe in him is to be excused from bad things. He is our panacea for the woes of life.
The God of the Bible promises no exemption from suffering. In fact, he all but promises suffering. He does not suggest that his followers won’t go through fire, but rather that we won’t burn up. Mostly he promises to be there with us, to comfort and encourage us and renew our strength. God grieves with us, and he grows us into good people in the process.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Where was God in Aurora? He was on the lawn in front of the Civic Building as thousands gathered in solidarity, hope, and love at a packed prayer vigil last Sunday. He was in University Hospital as neurosurgeons groped for synonyms for miraculous.
He was in the outpouring of compassion at a victim’s funeral and in the passionate call for unity from a resolute councilwoman and at the bedside vigil of a wounded victim’s church community. Redemption has only begun in Aurora, and already God is everywhere. Their will be beauty once this story is written that overshadows and transcends the ashes.
Jesus started his ministry by declaring, “I am the light of the world,” and ended it with “you are the light of the world.”
What God our cities will see is what we show them. From the beginning, light has shone in the darkness - he ordered it that way. And the deeper the darkness, the brighter the light will appear. Where is God in Aurora? He is shining brightly from the hearts of his people.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Rob Brendle.
To all ahteists:
You are just cowards. You know it would mean some disadvantages on earth to be a beilever, and maybe you had to end some misbehaviours which don't please God.
Instead of accepting some "small" suffering here on earth, and finisching injustice, you try to explain away Him, whose power is visible in the beauty of every butterfly and sunset.
Why do butterflies suffer, Rainer?
Pot meet kettle...your faith is nothing of vast importance Rainer...you do not care that what you believe is true. When there is verifiable evidence supporting your imaginary friend god we will have reason to accept that it is real, until then you have nothing. We are at least honest on where we stand. Enjoy your delusions...not everyone shares them nor does everyone need to. Your imaginary friend apparently told you that judging others is a sin, so I guess since you believe in it you'll be the one enjoying the eternity that really doesn't exist with your imaginary friends imaginary arch enemy satan burning in a fiery pit.
Rainer that is all a cop out, saying atheists are non-believers out of convienience and not because they looked at the evidence and found it lacking. People who identify as Atheist in the US have more biblical knowledge than most believers. And why do you think that is? They have examined the evidence in an effort to understand, and found it absurd and therefore rejected it.
Saying "butterflies and sunsets" equal god is ridiculous. I can just as easily say "childhood cancer and birth defects" equal god with the same validity. Your most powerful being that created the universe gets all the credit and none of the blame.
Where in your world are the 5 billion or so people that do not and never will accept jesus christ as anything but a joke? Do you believe like HS they will spend eternity in some sort of hell? And what do you do about some of the splinter christian groups jehovah witness, mormon, etc.?
PS: The RCC claims to have about 900 million members about 40% of all christians, what do you do about them as you are not an admirer, are you?
Rainman, since you ostensibly are an atheist as far as Athena, Thor, Krisjna and Ra are concerned, you are a coward because you choose to not suffer the disadvantages of belief in them.
See how that works. Amazing the mental gymnastics and self-contradictions the bible-beaters have to entertain to keep their story straight.
Truth Prevails Not, you're obviously not the sharpest blade in the drawer. Let me type this s-l-o-w-l-y just for you. If you read the Bible without your ego blocking (meaning to fight His truth), you would know Him to be true. You've got to make the first move and stop going on all your negative atheists sites to find answers to His truth.
@TruthPrevails "When there is verifiable evidence supporting your imaginary friend god we will have reason to accept that it is real, until then you have nothing." Atheists need to start outgrowing this "varifiable evidence" dogma. Atheists, like everyone else, can understand a great deal, but never fully understand themselves. As it were, they cannot be under a microscope and looking through it at the same time. Atheists cannot use their own reason to explain the conflicts between their own emotions and reason. Atheists cannot even prove that the universe will exist after they die.
Confused face, are you kidding? What happened to the king line of the Egyptians for believing they were gods. They are the lowest of kingdoms.
HeavenSent, by "ego" do you mean brain? If I read it without thinking then I will see Him?
If I read 'Twas the Night Begore Christmas without this ego, I guess I will see Santa.
You're basically saying "if you read the Bible with the pre-conceived notion of accepting it to be true, then you'll believe the Bible to be true".
HS: Let me type this for yo slowly....r-e-a-d-i-n-g that giant book of fairy tales is what convinced me that it is not true!! In fact that is what makes most people non-believers. I understand you have never read it fully and only pick what you wish to believe. If you did read it fully, you'd comprehend the numerous contradictions within it and how much of a monster your imaginary friend god is. I do not have to respect your opinion when your opinion is not based on factual evidence and is only based on a book written 2000 years ago by 40 sheep herding men who never met one another. I base my opinion off of the evidence as SCIENCE provides and that evidence is backed with facts and peer reviewed studies. You have nothing.
No Truth, Just Claims, you lie like the rest of the atheists on this site. Atheists constantly ask questions, then give the most ridiculous explanations to scriptures because they have no eyes to see, nor ears to hear His truth. Even when a Christian gives a truthful explanation of scriptures, they are rejected and ridiculed. The atheists then gather the true information and hand it out to all their atheists friend as if they did the research.
Give me a break atheists know more about Jesus than Christians.
Explaining away nothing is pretty simple. Non-existence is non-existence.
"Atheists know more about Jesus than Christians."
Exactly. And that is why the notion of his existence is rejected. Perhaps of you knew more you would reach the same conclusion.
So basically your point is we atheists just need to start believing and then we will believe. It is that kind of drivel of a circular argument that made us realize people like you are either lying like a faith healer or deluded like a mental patient.
And you reading comprehension could use a lot of work. I didn't say we "know Jebus" better, we have more biblical knowledge than most. Of couse christian fruitcakes like you know Jebus better, the funny thing is Jebus is as diffentent as the believers that have a "personal relationship" with him.
The problem with your analysis of not needing any verifiable evidence is that it works equally well for ANY argument for ANY god, ghost, goblin, unicorn, fairy, or dragon. (You get the idea). Differentiation, you know. Why would you use an "argument" that works equally well for any religion and could be used by any believer of any non-provable claim?
To all of you that believe God is a fairy tale. I'm not going to reply to each one of you, so take this truth as it is already written ... the itchy ears scriptures means you want to believe what you want to make you feel good and NOT hear His truth for what is good for you.
Fairy tale is fables in scriptures. Again, you take Jesus truth, change the description, and call it your own. He already knew at end of days (that's your generation, it started in 1948 when Israel became a Nation) that you'd refuse to hear His truth because you are so concerned with your flesh bodies, believing life is all there is, you care less what happens to you because you believe Jesus is a big joke ... Folks, big bang never happened unless you watch Batman and Robin. Neither did evolution. The reason you were taught those lies is because satan doesn't want to fry alone. Satan wants to take as many as God's children as he can to the eternal flames.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Satan is gods right hand man, according to your dogma he would not be able to do anything without god allowing him to. Therefore Satan is God. Good thing this is all a faity tale
Your position is juvenile. You cannot make any sort of argument so you try to have the last word then take your ball and go home. You and your ilk are a scourge on humanity.
Fortunately, the future does not belong to you. You are being slowly eradicated like most viruses.
I would like to try and work up some empathy for a mind such as yours but I can not. Anyone that truly believes that only those people that accept a mythical jesus christ will be saved and the rest will suffer for all eternity is a depraved sadist. I suppose that even a large number of the many christian based faiths would not live up to your standard of salvation but even if they did that is about 2 billion of the 7 billion people on earth. Seeing the last couple of your childish posts, I do see I am dealing with a fool, maybe with some intelligence, but a fool none the less.
Forgot to add @HS, sorry, unlike HS and Rainer, since I think jesus is a joke, I of course can not be perfect, sigh, I will learh to live well with my imperfections. Getting a good laugh out of those two, is probably a sin in their eyes but I can not help it.
Much suffering on earth is caused by people which aspire for honor, power and riches on every condition.
If you would ask such a man: "What do you think about love and righteousness?", he would answer that these things are good, but he would not tell you that he would be loveable and righteous only as long as it is no obstacle for getting honor, power and riches.
A Christian thinks reverse: he could accept some honor, power and riches as long as it is not on the cost of love and righteousness. This is caused by the meek and humble Spirit of Christ.
Well, Rainer, I could say that god created us. And if we hold these selfish views, we are imperfect. So god makes us ill and commands us to be good?
That is the mind game if a sadistic lunatic. Fortunately, he does not exist so I can choose to be free of these fairy tales.
mitch, the atheists that complain the most about God's truth is because of their gay lifestyle. Get over lusting after the flesh. God says you are an abomination. So, what do you do. You re-write His scriptures to what you want Him to have scribed, instead of reading what He did scribe. When that doesn't work, He becomes a fairy tale to you.
I really regret the death of these people in Aurora which were murdered by a probably mad man.
Yet, the death can hit everybody of us every day. Just remember the catastrophe which happened in Ja-pan, or remember 9/11.
Death is only awful, if it hits us unprepared.
What means unprepared?
We are unprepared, if we are not "in Christ".
What means "in Christ"?
This is hard to explain by words. Yet, it has the consequence that your death will be only a passing away. Your body perishes, but your soul is kept by Jesus. Jesus who is stronger than the death will not allow your total destruction. One day you will even get a new heavenly body. For the believer death is like sleeping.
Simply believe that Jesus, the Son of God, has borne your sins when he died for you on the cross, and that he has resurrected for being your righteousness. Be righteous in daily life when you have started to believe. Through faith you are no longer a slave ouf your sinfulness which dwells in your body but a slave of righteousness which is Jesus who dwells in you through the Holy Spirit.
Don't aspire for honor, power and riches any longer but, simply do your current job well, and help people which are in need with your honestly earned money.
If you have a job which is connected with sin, you should look for another job. Daily pray the morning prayer and remember your baptism where you got metaphysically connected with the releasing power of Jesus death and resurrection. Daily invite Jesus to rule over you, so that you may do works of righeousness, instead works of death.
Good to hear from you Rainer. Excellent post.
i don't need god to help people. And I am not a child that has to be ruled over. Seems like the celestial dictator wants power over me in this life and the next.
At least in North Korea, when you die you are free of the totalitarianism. With gentle jesus meek and mild, the fun continues in the mythical after-life.
And let's not even get into the topic of how you know what happens after death. Do you have access to knowledge that is. OT accessible by me? Or are you jus an indoctrinated primate, as we are all primates, spewing the party line because it furthers your agenda?
Primates, Confused? Aren't we just clockwork? Your "help" and your railings against God are defined by determinism just as the rolls of dice are. Ultimately trivial and to no purpose just like everything else.
Excuse me Rainer. Back up a few steps. What do you mean that believers believe we are sleeping? No where in scriptures does it say we are sleeping. When we die, our bodies go back to dirt, where they came from ... dust to dust. Immediately, upon taking our last breath we are back with the Lord (in our spiritual bodies), who created all. If we love and follow Him we are on the right side of the gulf with Him. Those that did not overcome are on the wrong side of the gulf until the day of the Lord, then judgment.
We have a WWF SMACKDOWN
In this corner Christian claims that we die and are brought back to HEAVEN only after Jesus' second coming - RAINER BRAAAEEENDLEIN
and in this corner Christian cliams that we go to heaven immedieatly ... HEAVEN SSSSEEEEENNT !
Both contestents can now kill themselves and report back to us the "truth"
The loving god-fearing Christians? How about the morally bankrupt racists who use the sky-fairy to further their own agenda?
"Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson had planned to marry this month at the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs in Mississippi, but were asked at the last minute to move."
If the sky fairy can't overcome a few people's racism, how can he throw a mountain into the sea?
Perhaps you are simply daring God. What do you require from God if you are to believe in him?
yeah, sure. I'm "daring" something that doesn't exist. And for my little dare, I will suffer. Meanwhile, atrocities continue all around the world and the sky-fairy sits idly by. Instead of being so concerned with my disbelief, why don't you demand that your sky-fairy stop the suffering immediately.
As for proof, ElmerGantry dealt with that issue very thoroughly a few posts down. I think the proof would be sufficient and relatively simple for such an omnipotent being. Let me know when you can arrange it.
You seem to be attached to something that doesn't exist more firmly than most believers I've met. Can you free yourself from the sky-fairy?
I do not have to be "freed" from the nonexistent. Imagine the day you stopped believing in the tooth fairy. Was it troublesome and heart-wrenching? Or did you go about your day and never give it a second thought regarding its existence?
The latter applies to me. Now please, you asked what proof Inwould require. See ElmerGantry's post below and advise.
There is a story that Christ descended into hell to proclaim ascendency over death and Satan. Do you hope to be a sort of Christ declaring victory over things that don't exist?
ah, yes, Orem. Avoiding the proof issue I see. Not atypical of the believers.
As for the story, I prefer the Three Little Bears. Great moral story, less bloodshed, but equally simplistic and as improbable.
You spend a lot of time and effort demanding proof for something that doesn't exist.
You posed the question. I gave my response. Are you utterly dumbfounded or unprepared to continue the discussion? Or are you going to revert to the, "god does not need to prove anything," response which of course proves nothing. Which the begs the question of why your raised the issue in the first place.
The rationalist asks for proof. You have none. I don't spend any more time on it than that. It is for you, the one who posits the absurd proposition of the existence of a god, to make the proof.
There is an old story about Gilgamesh going to the underworld to proclain ascendency over mortality and Utnapishtim.
Since that myth pre-dates the Christ story by thousands of years, I'd say Jesus is trying to be a Gilgamesh.
I haven't posited the existence of God. Initially I asked what you would want of God to prove that he exists. Actually, I started by suggesting that you have a fully-realized image of God and that you dare him to prove his existence to you.
and I answered what I would ask of the sky fairy to prove its existence. And you have not, unsurprisingly, followed-up.
do you believe in the judeo-Christian god, Orem?
Sorry, Confused. I can't find anything in what you've said that details what you would want from your God as proof of his existence. Nor any clues as to why you do or think anything at all.
Perhaps after work we can discuss whether God (or any god) does, at least, exist.
It would be handy if God would address the world in a way that is undeniable.
Unfortunately, He seems to prefer sending psychic messages to only a select few Prophets who then pass the Word onto the rest of us – like a game of cosmic chinese telephone.
"I guess God was a lot more demonstrative back when he flamboyantly parted the seas."
– Brett Guerewitz
Confused face, you're the one that's confused. Why hate Christians for telling you our creator, yes, that's right, He created everyone and everything is not happy with your lifestyle. That you need to stop paying attention to the ways of the world (which is lusting in the flesh) and focus on Jesus truth and only His truth if you want to dwell with Him for eternity. If not, it's your call. Enjoy this life because you won't be going on through eternity.
From your posts I assume you are a Born Again, please note.
Born Agains (christians) are the most dogmatic of all, because it is the dogma itself that forms their belief system. The Born Again believes that everyone needs to be told what to do, and realistically, that is the only thing keeping them out of jail. This group has a powerful system of beliefs, and they will tell you about it whenever they get the chance.
Many Born Agains become born again with the help and advice of the prison chaplin, they realize that their conversion to jesus provides them with browny points with the parole board. Born Agains also tend to congregate in trailer parks and local bars that provide a social setting in which they are comfortable and can chat about their prison days. Please feel free to let us know how things are going at your trailer park, we would love to know.
Wrong. No cigar.
My mistake then, but your posts do tell everyone what they shoiuld do and how they should live to meet your high standards for salvation, so you can understand why I might deduce you were Born Again. Someone else asked about your opinion on the doctrine of original sin, do you have a lucid comment on that subject?
PS: You may not be Born Again, but if you have any friends at all, some should be BA's.
Big whistle for you mitch ... wwheeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww. I'm posting Jesus' truth. Those are His standards for making it through the narrow gate to dwell with Him for eternity.
mitch, of course true Christians are born again. That is not why I said wrong, no cigar. That answer was to the rest of the assumptions you came up with. It comes down to this, is your glass half empty or half full?
Wait, wait, I know this! My glass is half full. Now it's half empty.
And you think it is your job to tell everybody that rejects jesus as at best a fairy tale on how to lead their lives, how arrogant! About the original sin thingy that babies are suppusedly born with, a comment?
You don't need Jesus to be moral. Even entertaining your fantasy about the gates of the heavenly kingdom (trying to suppress laughter), your sky fairy whose mercy is infinite would take mercy on me, a rational person using the gifts he allegedly gave me.
He cannot deny me entrance through the pearly gates (laughter) when he took extreme pains to hide himself. Well, other than the random cameo in a piece of toast.
Mitch, Jesus told us to preach His truth to every creature.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Confused face, God doesn't hide from anyone. He is always there. You need to knock and He will answer.
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me"
I guess he was there for the Aurora victims, or the Holocaust, or the pious who died horrific deaths a d pleaded to be spared. If your god was tere and allowed these to occur, I want no part of him. Fortunately, he is nowhere because he doesn't exist. The voice you hear is just you. Deluded individuals are the last to know.
A blogger with the screen name "shwmin once stated the following question regarding proof of god,
"How much proof would be enough, What is your criteria for proof?"
July 2, 2012 at 9:17 pm | Report abuse | (http: / / religion . blogs . cnn . com /2012/06/22/prominent-atheist-blogger-converts-to-catholicism/comment-page-97/#comments)
That is an interesting question, what would constïtute proof of a god?
A visitation by any being would be problematic. A being from a sufficiently advanced civilization would be indistinguishable from a god. Such an advanced being could perform feats that could totally astound scientists, feats that even a young one of their culture would understand. So a visitation by someone would not be compelling in this regard.
It seems to me that something that would grab attention would be a series of individual events each of which is so statistically improbable that the probability of these unrelated events taken together would be so small as to get the worlds attention.
Such an attention getting event might be the simultaneous and overnight,
1) world wide total and permanent remission of all cancers,
2) world wide regeneration of limbs of all amputees,
3) world wide total cessation of sëx trafficking human abuse,
4) world wide total cessation of child abuse,
5) world wide cessation of all hostilities,
6) world wide sudden curing of diseases cause by genetic defects.
I tell you that if within one day everyone in the world woke up to all cancer patients completely and permanently cured, all amputees with their limbs restored, all sëx traffickers turned loose their victims, all child abuse stopped and captives turned loose, everybody laid down their weapons and shook hands, and all down syndrome and other people with genetic maladies were cured; all this taken together, would definitely get the entire worlds attention, would it not?
Since Jesus makes many clear, simple, and unequivocal statements about prayer,
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
All things are possible to him who believes.
For with God nothing will be impossible.
Ok believers pray for this major joint event and make it happen. Makeing this event happen will get the attention of the world and you will have achieved a major credit for the glory of god.
"TruthPrevails, I most likely look younger than you."
July 30, 2012 at 7:07 am | Report abuse |
Award for most non sequitur statement.
True or not what does that have to do with the topic or anything including the preverbal price of tea in China.
Your lack of intelligence is clearly open for all to see.
Elmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer, I was answering his question that he wrote to me.
Elmer, cough, Scott, you blocked my post when I said they won the award for the most foolish statement, now you've got the nerve to steal my idea and want to insult me to boot. Just proves you nonbelievers have no creativity but steal anything that isn't nailed down.
I keep forgetting Scott, I must have told truth to one of your dummy handles again. This good cop bad cop routine of atheists posts as well as Christian posts. Tell me Scott ... never mind (ROTFLOL).
Who is Scott?
Scott is HS's imaginary enemy.
OK Matty. Anything you say.
The Higgs Boson goes into a catholic church and hovers in a pew. The congregation can not help but stare and whisper about its presence. The priest having had enough of the disturbance, approaches the boson and asks that it leave the church.
The Higgs Boson replies...Are you sure you want me to leave? You can't have MASS without me.
"God is the author of life and the originator of good."
the christian god is a baby killer. he drowned babies, the elderly, pregnant women, the disabled and untold innocents in his great flood. he also killed babies in sodom and gomorrah when he destroyed those cities. and in egypt, god specifically killed the children of the egypt to punish the pharoah.
the only way someone could possibly think the christian god is loving or compassionate is if they haven't actually read the bible. the bible is full of unimaginable cruelty. yahweh is a monster.
Booty, the reason you don't comprehend His love, is because those life stories are about folks like you. God destroys all evil in the 3rd earth age because of His love for us. Not to worry, he takes out the righteous as well as the unrighteous. That's why you should appreciate everyone that comes into your life ... because we never know how long we have.
So, "he" kills us because "he" loves us? And you're comfortable with that? News flash, that's an excuse an abusive spouse or parent tries to get away with in court.
people like me? so a two month old baby is evil like me and needs to be destroyed? that's why he drowned babies in his great flood? and the pharoah needed to be taught a lesson - so i'll murder the children of his citizens. that'll show him.
make more excuses for your baby killer deity pls.
Heavensent has spoken therefore it must be true..NOT!
@heavensent, your rational sounds like something form the mind of James Holmes.
One one: Rational is not within HS's vocabulary...the only book that old bitty owns and has ever read is her buybull. No offense intended but using the Aurora monsters name give him credence where he deserves none....some idiot posted yesterday that god was there and that's why the gun jammed, not once considering how pathetic that made her imaginary friend look.
Mirosal, He hates evil. That's why He takes people out. Whether they be righteous or not, it doesn't matter except to the person who loves and follows Him ... they dwell with Him for eternity and the ones that hated Him, ignored Him or didn't believe Him ... are done away with.
As for infants and children, they are not of the age of accountability to make the decision to love and follow Him. They are innocent and they are back with Him because their spirits are too sensitive to live in this world among us.
Dodney got his edjumacayshun at the self proclaimed all-knowing, all-caring El Rushbo skrëwal [Rush's word, not mine] of illogic.
Except for those that are murdered, mentally challenged, aborted etc. They are the ones that get to know His truth on the day of the Lord. That's what the 144,000 are. The teachers of His truth during the millennium.
What happened to the doctrine of original sin? Isn't a baby a sinner from the moment it takes its first breath because Eve and Adam couldn't keep their hands off of the forbidden fruit. You have a tendancy to only spout off about the bits in your stupid bible fairy tale that you agree with and disregard the rest.
As for infants and children, they are not of the age of accountability to make the decision to love and follow Him. They are innocent and they are back with Him because their spirits are too sensitive to live in this world among us."
July 30, 2012 at 6:58 am | Report abuse |
What a cop out.
The little ones who were taken in battle and who have not known man were not killed but taken as släves (boys) and sëx slaves (girls). Guess god did not love them.
Waiting for your apologistic context for this one. Betcha it will be a beauty. LOL
So HS, you're basically saying that your imaginary friend god only likes the 'perfect' ones?? Hope you enjoy your time with his imaginary arch enemy satan because you're certainly one of the mentally challenged that he apparently rejects. 144 000 is term used by JW's...so you're not a true christard after all....too funny old lady! Enjoy your meds!!
"There is an old, old story about a theologian who was asked to reconcile the Doctrine of Divine Mercy with the doctrine of infant damnation. 'The Almighty,' he explained, 'finds it necessary to do things in His official and public capacity which in His private and personal capacity He deplores."
– Robert Heinlein
TruthP, you write too fast.
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Elllmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, if you ever read God's truth, he calls all of us His children or little ones. Therefore, you need to comprehend the subject, the content, and the outcome.
But, read what truly happened in the garden of Eden.
TruthP, you nonbelievers are the irrational ones. You truly believe that this life on earth is all there is. LOL. Life is a test from God to see who loves and follows Him, get to dwell with Him for eternity. Those that don't overcome the lust of the flesh (meaning, the ways of the world), don't love and follow His truth, don't seek Him, don't believe Him, think He's a fairy tale and all that other nonsense they come up with for not abiding in His truth are blotted out, or worse, get their own personal worm that is never quenched that feeds off of them for eternity. Take your pick. It's always been your choice. Jesus just obliges you.
Booty, Christians do believe every word of His truth. That's why we obey His truth.
Prayer changes things :
Yes...it turns perfectly useful time into a total waste.
Reference other opinions already written. Take your opinion and a loonie and see if you can find a dollar menu. Atheism is bull sh it in Canada and twice as useless here.
Dodney's just jealous cause 'it' has never gotten an education past grade 2...I'm surprised the asylum let this loon out of his rubber room so early...they'll be looking for you soon Dodney...best get to them first so they're not forced to restrain you for yet another week after injecting you with the anti-psychotic meds you desperately require!!
We don't do grade 2 in America. It is second grade here. Why don't you learn that no one here needs or wants your bull sh it.
Dodney: What do the number 2 and the word second mean??? Are you that fvcking stupid not to realize they are one in the same? Wow...I understand you do not have an education outside of buybull school and how to be an ignorant ass. Maybe you just envy us...we are after all a much more put together country...did they deny you entry at the border and now you're crying to your imaginary friend? Sorry ole' schizophrenic one, you're not good enough for us!!
It's bullshit you stupid fuckhead....or did your second grade education fail you...wait don't answer...we all know you never made it out of kindergarten.
actions make change; prayer wastes valuable time.
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer [shall be] abomination.
HeavenSent: Off your meds again? Back to the asylum old lady!!
Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things stated once again and again and again Ad Nauseum,
"Prayer changes things"
Earlier I challenged you to do something positive for humanity by praying to stop the international forced sëx trafficking of an estimatated 800,000 people.
I see your prayers to stop the estimated 800,000 people who are forced into sëx traficking across international borders have not worked.
Wait since prayer changes things that means you have not been praying to stop this scourge on humanity.
Why won't you pray to stop this repulsive human abuse?
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt,not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.
[A true believer can ask a mountain to throw itself into the sea, and it will be done. LOL!]
John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
John 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Nothing could be simpler or clearer than Jesus' promises about prayer in the Bible.
So there you have it, straight from Jesus in the New Testament in clear, simple, and unequivocal terms.
You are a sincere believer are you not?
TruthPrevails, I most likely look younger than you.
HeavenSent: Your blow up doll is not you...I understand you look at it and think you're seeing yourself...keep fantasizing old lady.
@Cap'n Sayin Atheism Isn't an Angry Pervert Rangerfield
Good morning Cap'n. How's the trolling so far today?
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!^
Mediating on this thread I realized something. Our men's group prays. Then we host retreats and invite other men into relationship with Jesus. We teach prayer, which bonds us and strengthens us. Many old wounds are healed. Out of the healing, sin is arrested. Drinking, gambling and seexual addictions are healed, not always, but often. In place of bad behaviors and sin are installed piety, forgiveness and courage. Anger and fear are released. Lives are changed and many families are healed. Women and children become happy. These men bring others to the mission and our brotherhood grows. Always, the old flesh tries to come back. More prayer is needed as is service. Faith and action.
I asked God Free Now to try thirty days of prayer to end his por nography addiction. I thought it would be a good start to end trafficking. Has anyone heard how that worked out?
TO ALL YOU HIGH-ACHIEVERS AND NOBLE PRIZE WINNERS OUT THERE. GET IT STRAIGHT: OUR UNIVERSE DID NOT BEGIN FROM ONE PARTICLE WHICH C!A-ME OUT OF NOWHERE, OR WAS ALWAYS THERE BY ITSELF. R-A-TH-ER INFINITE-LY MIN-UTE PAR-TIC-LES WIT-HIN THE INFINITE, FORM FORM-ATIONS, OBJ-ECTS, PL-A-NE-TS GA-LA-XI-ES AND UNIV-ERSES ( AND EXIS-TENCES AND ENT-ITIES ), THROUGH INFINITE CH-AI-NS OF AC-TIONS AND RE-A-CTIONS OR WHAT HA-VE YOU, AND ALL THE AF-OR-EM-E-NTIONED DIS-OL-VE BACK TO PARTICLES WIT-HIN THE INFINITE THROUGH CH-AI-NS OF AC-TIONS AND R-E-ACTIONS.
NOTHING HAPPENS OUT OF NOTHING. NO INTELLIGENCE, ENERGY OR MATTER CAN EVOLVE OUT OF NOTHING BUT FROM ANOTHER ENERGY INTELLIGENCE OR MATTER. NO ENERGY, INTELLIGENCE OR MATTER CAN EXIST WITHOUT HAVING A BEGINNING OR AN END, EXCEPT THE INFINITE ENERGY/ INTELLIGENCE/MATTER AKA GOD.
TIME DOES NOT EXIST FOR THE INFINITE. TIME IS A WAY TO DESCRIBE HOW MANY MOVEMENTS AN OBJECT DID IN SPACE ( TURNS OF THE EARTH ), IN REFERENCE TO ANOTHER OBJECT ( AROUND THE SUN ). THEREFORE THERE IS NO TIME TRAVEL. ONLY THE INFINITE/GOD CAN UNDO THE INFINITE CHAINS OF ACTIONS AND REACTIONS TO TURN A SECTOR OF THE INFINITE TO AN EARLIER STAGE. ONLY THE INFINITE/GOD CAN PREDICT HOW THE INFINITE/GOD WILL WANT THE FUTURE TO C!O-ME TO BE ( OR UNDERSTAND HOW EACH OF US IS ABOUT TO AFFECT THE FUTURE SINCE THE INFINITE IS IN EVERY MINUTE PARTICLE OF OUR EXISTENCE ).
LIGHT IS NOT THE FASTEST THING IN THE UNIVERSE, IT IS THE FASTEST THING WE CAN OBSERVE.
UNLESS SOMEONE CAN DEVIDE THE ENERGY THAT CAN BE DISTILLED FROM THE MA!S-S OF A MOUNTAIN (EVEN THE PART OF THE ENERGY THAT ESCAPES AS HEAT) AND DERIVE THE SPEED OF LIGHT SQUARED, OR UNLESS E = M C^2 MEANS THAT THE SPEED C IN QUESTION DESCRIBES AN INFINITELY INCREASING SPEED (AND NOT SQUARED BUT RAISED TO INFINITY ), INFINITE ENERGY CANNOT EQUAL INFINITE MA!S-S TIMES A CONSTANT SPEED WHICH IS CONVINIENTLY FOUND IN NATURE, AND WHICH SPEED WE CONVINIENTLY CANNOT SURPA!S-S IN OUR EXPERIMENTS IN ORDER TO DISPROVE.
EVERY ACTION AND REACTION, EVERY PHENOMENON, FROM LIGHT/SOUND MOVEMENT TO VISION/HEARING, MAGNETISM WORMHO!LES IN SPACE ( WHIRLPOOLS RATHER – THE PARTICLES OF WHICH ACT REACT, AND MAKE IT SEEM AS IF IT WAS A MAGNETIC FIELD AND NOT A FLUID SORT OF PHENOMENON THAT TRAPS EVERYTHING IN EACH FLOW, AND FROM WHICH EVEN THE FASTEST SUPPOSEDLY OBJECT IN THE UNIVERSE CANNOT ESCAPE FROM THE MOST LIKELY FASTER MOVING PARTICLES OF THE WHIRLPOOL ), ALL ARE OUT!C-OMES OF REACTIONS BETWEEN INFINITELY MINUTE PARTICLES ( SMALLER THAN PHOTONS, THEREFORE INVISIBLE – ECLIPSE PHENOMENON ).
FOR SOMETHING TO EXIST, IT MUST HAVE MA!S-S (HOWEVER INFITESMALY MINUTE). JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING CANNOT BE OBSERVED OR MEASURED IT DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST OR IT DOES NOT HAVE MA!S-S. EVEN ENERGY HAS MA!S-S ( HOWEVER MINUTE THE PARTICLES THAT CONSIST IT MAY BE), OTHERWISE IT WOULD NOT EXIST AND WOULD NOT PERFORM WORK (NO ACTION AND RE-ACTION EVEN AT THE INFINITESMALLY MINUTE LEVEL – NO OUTC!O-ME ) .
BETWEEN ANY TWO UNITS ( NUMBER 1 AND 2 ) EXIST AN INFINITY. A MIDDLE POINT WOULD DENOTE A BALANCING ZERO WHICH WOULD DIVIDE THIS "STAGE" INTO POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE. INFINITE STAGES EXIST WITHIN THE INFINITE. THE INFINITE IS INFINITE FROM EVERY PERSPECTIVE, BOTH WITHIN THE MACROCOSM (INFINITE EVERYTHING) AND THE MICROCOSM (INFINITE NOTHING). THE INFINITE (INFINITE ENERGY/INTELLIGENCE/MATTER), IS GOD AND GOD IS THE INFINITE.
WHEN YOU DO READ SOMETHING, WHETHER IT IS WRITTEN IN A BLOG OR A SCIENCE BOOK, BEAR IN MIND THE POSSIBLE MOTIVATIONS OF THE AUTHORS AND BY USING GOOD JUDGEMENT LEARN WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR A TEST (LIKE PARROTS IF YOU HAVE TO), BUT KEEP WHAT IS THE TRUTH AS GUIDANCE THROUGHOUT YOUR LIVES.
WHAT ATHEISTS DO NOT LIKE ABOUT THIS THEORY IS SIMPLY THAT GOD IS PROVEN MATHEMATICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY, IN ACCORDANCE WITH GOD'S BIBLICAL DEPICTION. AND THAT IT GIVES ADEQUATE ANSWERS TO UNANSWERED BY THEM QUESTIONS, SUCH AS WHAT CAUSED WHATEVER CAUSED THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE, AND WHAT CAUSED THAT E.TC. AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF EXISTENCE, AND WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE OUTC!O-ME OF THE HUMAN EXISTENCE AFTER "DEATH." WHAT IS "GOOD" AND "EVIL," "POSITIVE," AND "NEGATIVE," "HEAVEN" AND "HE!L-L," "ANGELS," AND "DAEMONS," "CHRIST" AND "DEVIL." WELL IT IS ALL IN THE BIBLE BUT TO THOSE OF YOU WHO PREFER TO CALL THEMSELVES "MODERN," "EDUCATED" AND "SOPHISTICATED," I GIVE YOU "INFINITISM."
Keep appealing to the credulous, you are bound to snag a few.
Your claim is,
"WHAT ATHEISTS DO NOT LIKE ABOUT THIS THEORY IS SIMPLY THAT GOD IS PROVEN MATHEMATICALLY AND SCIENTIFICALLY"
The burden of proof is on the claimant. Please supply this mathematical and scientific proof without all the religio-technobabble above. Supply the mathematical equations that constïtute your proof, nothing less.
Now just prove what created your god and all will be well, until then your fallacy is just that and we'd like to see your Noble Prize Award for this...oh that's right, you don't have one...you simply are delusional and in need of mental health help...you're not stable!!!
Did you hear the one about the Canadian that minded its own business?
You won't. It can't help itself from trying to inject itself into places it is totally irrelevant.
Idiot screams nonsense. Turn off your caps lock numbskull. You don't have a clue about the physics referenced in your laughable post.
Another ass hole weighs in as if it was of some importance . News flash to stevey, no one gives a sh it what you think there or here.
Shut up you fucking retard. You've never had a relevant thing to say here. Just barfing out your paranoid hatred. Must suck being so stupid you shithead.
I think Dodney's delusions have gotten the best of him again...he seems to think his opinion on an international website matter...no worries Steve, they'll have him locked up again soon and the blog will know peace for another week.
if it wasn't obvious by the all CAPS you use, you're a nutjob. you offer zero evidence for your outlandish statements. get an education. seriously.
"LIGHT IS NOT THE FASTEST THING IN THE UNIVERSE, IT IS THE FASTEST THING WE CAN OBSERVE."
your evidence? proof?
and try applying logic to god. if you have a problem with the big bang, how can you not have a problem with god? who created god?
Dodney's mommy must have had an expensive "client" last night, she's still not home from her "date" so he's using her computer. Dodney, it's way past your bedtime. Go get your sippy-cup, have a drink, and go back to bed, The grown-ups are talking here.
Mirosal: I think one of two things has happened here...Dodney's Mommy/Sister (one in the same) has gotten home finally from her night of prosti.tution or the men in the bright white coats caught him out of his room and have him sedated.
I think his mommy came home and put him to bed.
Elmer, I'll start you off with the basics.
The 12 signs of the Zodiac, each with three constellations, making 36 in all, which together with the 12 signs make a total of 48.
There must be a reason, therefore, why the number 12 should thus pervade the heavens.
Why should 12 be the predominating factor? Why should it not be 11, or 13, or 7, or 20?
Because 12 is one of the four perfect numbers, the number of governmental perfection; hence it is associated with the rule of the heavens, for the sun is given "to rule the day," and the moon "to govern the night." The significance of this, however, must be deferred till we come to consider the number "twelve" under this head. It is enough for us now to notice the fact here, upon the threshold of our subject, that we have one common measure, or factor, which is seen in the 12 signs of the Zodiac, the 36 (3×12) constellations,* the total 48 (4×12); the 360 (12×30) degrees, into which the great circle of the heavens is divided.
No one can tell us why the number of degrees was first fixed at 360. It has come down to us from ancient times, and is used universally without a question.**
And it is this division of the Zodiac which gives us the 12 months of the Zodiacal year.
This is called also the Prophetic year, for it is the year which is used in the prophecies of the Bible.***
* There are other modern constellations now: Hevelius (1611-1687) added twenty-two; Halley (1656-1742) added fifteen. But every one knows how different these are from the ancient constellations, both in their names, their character, and their utter absence of all significance.
** It probably arises from the product of the four numbers, 3, 4, 5, 6, which arise out of the phenomena which lie at the root of Geometrical and Arithmetical Science. 3 x 4 x 5 x 6 = 360, while 360 x 7 = 2520.
*** There are different or relative kinds of years, according as we reckon the revolutions of the sun in relation to certain objects, e.g.:
(1.) In relation to the equinoctial points. The time taken by the sun to return to the same equinoctial point is called the Solar year (also the Civil, or Tropical year), and consists of 365.2422414 solar days (or 365 days 5 hours 48 minutes 49.7 seconds).
(2.) In relation to the stars. The time taken by the sun to return to the same fixed star is called the Sidereal year, and consists of 365.2563612 solar days (or 365 days 6 hours 9 minutes 9.6 seconds).
(3.) In relation to his own orbit. The time taken by the sun to return to the same point in his own orbit is called the Anomalistic year, and consists of 365.2595981 solar days (or 365 days 6 hours 13 minutes 49.3 seconds).
The word "Anomalistic" means irregular, and this kind of year is so called because from it the first irregularities of planetary motion were discovered.
Here, then, is an example of number as it is used in the heavens. Twelve is the pervading factor.
Tom Tom stated,
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
As usual, bucky, you are on top of things.
This site is so lame.
July 29, 2012 at 11:03 pm | Report abuse |P
Correct, and getting more lame with time. CNN has been consistantly moving to the right. This has resulted in an exodus of many CNN commentors and the attraction of some refugee FOX NEWS commentors. The end result has been the lowering of CNN's journalistic standards. CNN has unfortunately got what they wished for but not what they wanted. Chasing FOX's business model is a failed strategy on CNN's part, as evidenced by fact that CNN's numbers have been tanking.
CNN, you can not outfox FOX!
Thank you Rob for a very nice and inspiring article after such a horrific tragedy.
I am so sorry there are so many God-less people leaving awful and filthy comments on here. What comfort do they think they give to the victims and their families with such comments? They should be ashamed of themselves!
Choosing the right has not been working for CNN. The farther to the right CNN has moved the lower their ratings have become.
Intolerance of intolerance is not a bad thing. We are not going to lie to the victims and give them false hope.
The more you use all caps, the less valid the comment. The onu people impressed by this are the very credulous.
Award for most usage of religio-technobabble. The hallmark of a seasoned snake oil salesman.
Stop shouting...you prove nothing more than your dire need to be medicated. It is not a theory...a theory is based on facts, this is simply your delusional opinion....nothing more...you are gullible and lazy.
Stop butting in. Your opinion is irrelevant bull sh it in your country and unneeded here.
Dodney: Do you know what a dictionary is? Look up the word international if you're allowed access to one...you'll then realize why my freedom of speech matters regardless of what you may say.
Ooooo look. Dodney is trying to censor opinions that are different that his/her own.
Dodney must think the first amendment only applies to Dodney others of his ilk.
OUT OF NOTHING NOTHING HAPPENS, INTO NOTHING SOMETHING CANNOT BE DESTROYED, THEREFORE THERE MUST ALWAYS HAVE BEEN SOMETHING BEFORE AND AFTER, OUT OF WHICH EVERY FORM OF ENERGY, INTELLIGENCE AND MATTER WOULD FORM AND TO WHICH EVERY FORM OF INTELLIGENCE ENERGY AND MATTER WOULD DISOLVE ( PARTICLES FROM WITHIN THE INFINITE FORM EVERYTHING WITHIN THE INFINITE AND EVERYTHING WITHIN THE INFINITE DISOLVES INTO PARTICLES WITHIN THE INFINITE ). THE INFINITE ENERGY, INTELLIGENCE AND MATTER FROM WHICH EVERY LIMITED EXISTENCE IS FORMED, AND TO WHICH EVERYTHING DISOLVES IS GOD. FOR THE CHRISTIANS CHRIST IS THE INFINITE'S MANIFESTATION IN OUR SECTOR OF THE INFINITE OR THE HIGHEST REPRESENTING FORCE OF OUR GALAXY, UNIVERSE, SECTOR WITHIN THE INFINITE. FOR OTHERS THE INFINITE IS THE YIN AND YOUNG (TAOSISM), OTHER GROUPS BELIEVE IN OTHER MESSENGERS PROPHETS, BUT CHRISTIANS CAN CLAIM THAT THE VARIOUS WRITINGS OF THE BIBLE DEPICTED PROPHESIES WHICH WERE ALL FULFILLED LATER BY CHRIST (THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIVING AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND DESCRIBING WHAT THEY COULD COMPREHEND WITH THEIR FINITE UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT THE INFINITE GOD REVEALED TO THEM, THAT IS WHY THE MESSAGE AND TRUTH ABOUT GOD'S EXISTENCE AND THE PURPOSE OF THE HUMAN EXISTENCE, IS UNDERSTOOD ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, ACCORDING TO THE LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE AGE IN WHICH HE OR SHE LIVED – WE CANNOT EXPECT FOR THE INFINITE TO EXPLAIN QUANTUM MECHANICS TO PEOPLE WHO COULD BARELY COUNT ON THEIR FINGERS FOR EXAMPLE ). THE INFINITE GOD IS ONE INFINITY ( AND TRULY AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE AN INFINITE MACROCOSM/EVERYTHING AND AN INFINITE MICROCOSM/NOTHING BECAUSE WE CAN ONLY OBSERVE, MEASURE AND UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR FINITE COGNITIVE ABILITIES ALLOW US TO).
Having nothing to support your arguments for the non-existence of GOD atheists, since you cannot answer simply how is it that you exist if there was not a starting point that lead to your existence, but an absolute nothing (as you all support), you act like bullies in a school yard picking the boogers out of your nose.
Give it a rest, because even a bully in a school yard would know that out of nothing nothing happens, but of course it would take the nerd to conceive what the bully would not get even perhaps at a ripe old age; that what was always before the something which lead to the "thing" on the bully's hand was the Infinite, and that what's on the bully's hand can be infinitely divided; or that between the bully's pinky and his thumb exists an infinity in itself, as is between the number 1 and another number 1 ( one unit and another unit ), which make the number 2 (two units), or that the bully's hand will at one infinitely minute point in time disolve into the INFINITE, give it a rest, since you cannot comprehend what lays between the fine letters, let alone conceive the truth, and distill knowledge from the ore your inadequate imagination fails to mine.
GOD IS THE INFINITE (INFINITE ENERGY, INTELLIGENCE, MATTER), AND THE INFINITE IS GOD.
The fallacy is obvious. He doesn't deal with spacetime. Please stop shouting. You're very annoying. Constantly repeating a falsehood, does not make it true.
Tazmania, you're an idiot.
How could God exist without a starting point? Every part of your argument against the universe arising naturally can be better applied against God because God supposedly always was the most complicated, powerful, intelligent thing imaginable where the universe prior to the big bang is usually seen as the least complicated, intelligent thing possible that then developed into what we now see all around us. You have no answers for how God got so omni-everything, or how he could have always existed, but you mock scientific research that is coming closer to the actual answer for how the universe formed every day.
If out of nothing, nothing happens, then your god is the fallacy of Special Pleading. Have you ever taken a Logic class ? As obviously you have never taken a Physics class.
I doubt taz knows what a class is.
How can you have "intelligence" without time? Thinking, as we understand it, requires time. If God existed before there was time for him to think, how intelligent could he be? And where did he get intelligence from? Thinking to himself?
Absolutely Cq, that is my point. (I may have not made my self clear). No theist can give me one property of existence which does not require time. This taz person, keeps using "before", etc. THAT is time. You can't have a "before" time. If there is no dimension for existence to proceed in, that shoots the theist all to hell. Ultimately it's an unsolvable linguistic conundrum. But this person, does even get that far. Laos he/she assumes that (by the "nothing comes from nothing" bs), that the universe is intuitive. It's not, as has been proven.
"infinite" requires time, (just lots of it), matter needs time, (ex. electrons move around protons), intelligence needs time, energy requires time. Time does not exist apart from space in this universe.
Someone forgot to tell him the universe is made of electrons, protons, neutrons, and morons. :twisted;
So basically his argument goes something like this,
There is something, it's not nothing, something comes from somewhere, it can't come from nowhere.....therefore GOD! Oh and it's the "christian" GOD too!
It's highly likely the the only education taz knows is the edjumacayshun from the self proclaimed all-knowing, all-caring El Rushbo skrëwal [Rush's word, not mine] of illogic.
Biggest waste of time award. The truth of a comment is inversely proportional to the number of all caps used.
The large usage of caps is a large flag to skip the comment.
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Bucky, do you know what Hebrews 1:3 is?
Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
2 Peter 3:8
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.
He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"
My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Wisdom belongs to the aged, and understanding to the old.
Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom, and to depart from evil is understanding.
Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding.
No Truth, Just Claims.
You basically asked the same question, see answers above.
"NOTHING HAPPENS OUT OF NOTHING."
congratulations. you just proved god doesn't exist.
Just because we can string English words together into sentences doesn't make the claims of those sentences logical. Let's try!
"The square triangle with fourteen points was left north of the North Pole."
Complete foolishness, but if this sentence appeared in your Bible you'd be forced to make some kind of sense out of it, right?
One other thing, by saying "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" doesn't it imply that God has a beginning?
Cq, not to bust your bubble, but, without God, you wouldn't think. You wouldn't speak. You wouldn't exist. He created all, even language.
Sorry, it would take a bigger pri.ck than yours to burst my bubble. :-)
Dear Pastor Brendle, (a response would really be appreciated but please only from the pastor)---
We welcome you to the 21st century with a prayer:
The Apostles' Creed 2012 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
(References used are available upon request.)
AVOID WASTE OF TIME BULL SH IT
@ TOM TOM
You got stuck on the difference between "to" and "too," I don't really have the time to value the importance of spelling while blogging in a hurry to the point of editing constantly like you do. Also it is the internet, and sometimes some letters don't make it through. Good for you that you pay attention to the little details, while omitting the important stuff. But hey, let me guess, you disagree and having nothing to support your argument for the non-existence of GOD, since you cannot answer simply how is it that you exist if there was not a starting point, but an absolute nothing, you act like a bully in a school yard picking the boogers out of your nose.
Give it a rest, because even a bully in a school yard would know that out of nothing nothing happens, but of course it would take the nerd to conceive what the bully would not get even perhaps at a ripe old age, that what was always before the something which lead to the "thing" on the bully's hand was the Infinite and that what's on the bully's hand can be infinitely divided, or that between the bully's pinky and thumb exists an infinity in itself, as is between the number 1 and another number 1 ( one unit and another unit ), which make 2, or that the bully's hand will at one infinitely minute point in time disolve into the INFINITE, give it a rest Tom, Tom with the spelling, since you cannot comprehend what lays between the fine letters, let alone conceive the truth, and distill knowledge from the ore your inadequate imagination fails to mine.
@tazanastazio, you're assuming that there was nothing... that's quite a lot of assuming
Also, it is just horrible logic (appeal to ignorance) to say that since we don't know yet, therefore God...
I'll debate you, if you like, but I don't think you stand a chance.
Why do believers seem to think there's something wrong with admitting that you don't know the answer to something yet? Is it really that important to have an answer that you'd pick one on popularity, without any thought as to whether it would turn out to be the correct answer in time?
I would hope that you have more than calling someones view that challenges your own as "horrible".
It just goes to point that now as Atheist have become bolder and having well deserved pride in being Atheist the comments have gone from a Atheist questioning a Faithful's view on God to often opening with the claim that there is not a God. Now the tables are turned and the Faithful are asking for proof of the Atheist claim. The ball is now more and more in the Atheist camp to backup their claims.
I didn't "get stuck" on anything, you fvcking moron. You are the one who made the mistake, azzwipe. Get a clue, dear. If you can't even figure out how to write a simple sentence without fvcking it up, it's your problem, not mine.
Grow a brain, you stupid twit.
Oh, almost forgot, tazmanian idiot: I'm not required to prove there's no God, you azz.
You made the claim; the onus is on you.
Mark from Middle River
We don't need to prove that God doesn't exist in order not to believe that he does, just like you don't have to (and can't anyway) prove that Zeus doesn't exist in order not to believe in him either.
Good night, it's late!
Hey Tom Tom! Where were you all this time? I haven't seen you post in quite a while. I may be a Christian but one can always admire someone from the opposing side of the argument and I've always enjoyed reading your posts and admire your grammatical enforcement. Stay well and keep posting!
Exactly right Tom. The burden of proof rests squarely on the claimant. If someone wants anyone to believe them, it is up to the claimant to supply the proof.
This whole "something from nothing" problem believers have is non sequitur anyway as the vacuum
Is not empty. The vacuum is very active with virtual particles coming into and out of existence all the time. The effect of these virtual particles in the vacuum was predicted to show a differential pressure on plane parrallel plates in a hard vacuum. This differential pressure was experimentally confirmed.
The vacuum is not empty.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
Jesus was actually referring to false Christs pretending to do healings and such, like some televangelists and similar characters, one supposes, but why wouldn't Jesus also be able to foresee that presenting him as a demigod would appear foolish, as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 1:23? The Greeks had loads of half-god hero-redeemers like Hercules (someone else that Josephus mentions as a real, historic figure in his writings), but there were plenty who dismissed them as myths as well, right?
Yes, it is they who claim that God exists. All we need do is say that they haven't convinced us of their claim. Thousands of gods have been claimed to exist throughout history and Christians themselves dismiss all the others as never having been real, without any evidence to support that position, so why should we be expected to do any differently regarding their god? So, don't claim that God doesn't exist, as they want you to, just say that you don't accept their claim that he does. Keep the burden of proof where it belongs, with the claimant.
Discrimination is off limits!
This puts a massive forcefield around us!
Discrimination is off limits!
Amen our new massive forcefield!
I apple scented massingale.
b4bigbang is a virgin. Never been laid. Never had s3x.
Funny that he deems himself qualified to tell others what to do, how to live, and what god thinks.
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