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My Take: Chick-fil-A controversy reveals religious liberty under threat
July 31st, 2012
10:36 AM ET

My Take: Chick-fil-A controversy reveals religious liberty under threat

Editor's Note: R. Albert Mohler Jr. is president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world.

By R. Albert Mohler Jr., Special to CNN

(CNN)–Cultural upheavals often occur in the most surprising contexts. Who expected that a clash between sexuality and religious liberty would be focused on a restaurant company mainly known for its chicken sandwiches?

And yet the controversy over Chick-fil-A is a clear sign that religious liberty is at risk and that this nation has reached the brink of tyrannical intolerance from at least some of our elected leaders.

The controversy ignited when Chick-fil-A President Dan Cathy, son of the company’s legendary founder, Truett Cathy, told a Baptist newspaper that he and his company “operate on biblical principles” and “are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit.”

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Defining Chick-fil-A as “a family business,” Cathy went on to say that “We intend to stay the course. … We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles.”

Media attention to Cathy’s comments revealed a radio interview he had given a few weeks earlier in which he commented that “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at (God) and say, ‘We know better than You what constitutes a marriage.'

“I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think we would have the audacity to redefine what marriage is all about,” he said.

Within days, elected officials in Chicago, Boston and New York were pledging to deny the company access to their cities.

“Because of (Dan Cathy’s) ignorance, I will deny Chick-fil-A a permit to open a restaurant in my ward,” Chicago Alderman Proco Moreno said, in a threat echoed by
Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.

Boston Mayor Thomas Menino was just as blunt: “Chick-fil-A doesn’t belong in Boston,” he said. “We’re an open city. We’re a city at the forefront of inclusion.”

But the kind of inclusion he had in mind would evidently exclude Chick-fil-A.

New York City Council Speaker Christine Quinn, who just recently married her lesbian partner, called upon New York University to kick Chick-fil-A off its campus.

9 religious companies (besides Chick-fil-A)

Echoing the Boston mayor’s lack of irony, she also called for exclusion in the name of inclusion: “We are a city that believes our diversity is our greatest strength, and we will fight anything and anyone that runs counter to that.”

Within days, Moreno, Emanuel and Menino had qualified their statements somewhat, promising to operate within the law and constitutional limits. Those clarifications became necessary when legal authorities quickly recognized threatened violations of First Amendment rights.

To his credit, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an ardent supporter of same-sex marriage, warned, “You can’t have a test for what the owner’s personal views are before you decide to give a permit to do something in the city.”

Note carefully that Chick-fil-A was not charged with discrimination in hiring or service but simply with the fact that its president and chief operating officer supports traditional marriage.

Note something else: Dan Cathy’s statements were explicitly religious. He made his comments to the religious press, including a Baptist newspaper. His comments were infused with his Christian convictions, the same convictions that have led the company to close for business every Sunday.

The threats made against Chick-fil-A betray the principle of religious liberty that is enshrined within the U.S. Constitution. Civic officials in some of the nation’s largest and most powerful cities have openly threatened to oppose Chick-fil-A for the singular reason that its president openly spoke of his Christian convictions concerning marriage.

When Quinn, one of the most powerful officials in New York, announces, “I do not want establishments in my city that hold such discriminatory views,” is she also threatening the Roman Catholic Church, Orthodox Jewish synagogues and Islamic mosques?

They, along with evangelical Christian denominations, openly oppose the legalization of same-sex marriage. Cathy’s statements are completely consistent with his own denomination’s statement of faith and official declarations. He was speaking as a Christian and as a Southern Baptist, and he was speaking as a man who does his best to live and speak as he believes.

Christian groups allege threats to religious freedom in anti-Chick-fil-A campaigns

When Emanuel and Moreno tell Chick-fil-A to stay out of Chicago, are they audacious enough to deliver that same message to the churches, mosques and synagogues of their city that also oppose same-sex marriage? What do they do with the fact that their own state does not allow same-sex marriages?

This country is deeply divided over the issue of same-sex marriage, and the controversy over Chick-fil-A is an ominous sign that many of the proponents of same-sex marriage are quite willing to violate religious liberty and to use any and all means to silence and punish any individual or organization that holds the contrary view – a view sustained by the voters in 29 states by constitutional amendments.

Addressing the intersection of same-sex marriage and religious liberty, George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley has warned that the government must not be “viewed as unfairly trying to pre-determine the debate or harass one side.”

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That is exactly what some elected officials have just shown themselves ready to do. It will not stop with Chick-fil-A. Who will be next to be told to get out of town?

Disclosures:

I know Dan and Truett Cathy and other members of the Cathy family. Truett has spoken on our campus. I have prayed at the opening of multiple Chick-fil-A locations. I serve on the board of directors of Focus on the Family, which has been supported by Chick-fil-A. My son, Christopher, is a part-time service employee of a local Chick-fil-A restaurant in Louisville. I have not communicated with Chick-fil-A about this column.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of R. Albert Mohler Jr.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Church and state • Homosexuality • Opinion • Religious liberty

soundoff (3,216 Responses)
  1. Lisa

    Wait a minute – WHO redefined marriage?

    The Bible doesn't say one man and one woman.

    It's one man and many women.
    It's widows have to be given to their brother-in-law.

    August 5, 2012 at 11:10 am |
  2. alphacheck

    What "attacks" are you talking about? You mean the people that choose not to eat there because they don't like what the company is funding? How is that an attack? The company chose to exercise it's free speech by donating funds, people chose to exercise their free speech by calling attention to what the company is doing. I don't see anything that threatens the liberty of either group.

    August 5, 2012 at 10:39 am |
    • ghostmule

      You are a bonified moron.

      August 5, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • sam stone

      because Christians like to play the victim. it makes them feel like they are suffering for Jesus

      August 5, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • sam stone

      insightful comment, ghostmule

      August 5, 2012 at 11:17 am |
  3. Tom LI

    How come social protest is only suitable for Xtians? When did the rest of us give up our rights to protest?

    And of all things to lend support to – its Junk Food. And a Corporation that employs that many people is not a "Family" business.

    August 5, 2012 at 10:08 am |
  4. dave

    What is CNN doing running an editorial that makes sense and actually defends freedom of speech.

    And why is the gay agenda is always so full of hate?
    Why is that the Christian Church..followers of Christ will defend the gays right to free speech yet they are trying to stop free speech and freedom of concious?
    I am a christian ..one of those born again nuts who love christ and love my gay friends...dont agree with their life style but i will defend their freedom of expression ...confused !! but also know the reality of life... !!!! God bless all of you and may peace in ur hearts be found

    August 5, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • midwest rail

      No one's 1st Amendment rights have been violated.

      August 5, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • AGuest9

      Someone ramming their religious beliefs down everyone else's throats at their business is somehow a "religious liberty under threat"? The "freedom from religion" is under threat here, but then again, it's why I no longer patronize them.

      Vote with your wallet, folks!

      August 5, 2012 at 9:55 am |
    • Eric

      No one is ramming their religious beliefs down anyone's throat. Cathay was talking to a reporter at a religious publication and he was just speaking about his values and the values he holds for his company. Don't expect a Bible to be handed to you the next time you visit a Chick Filet

      August 5, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • sam stone

      dave: the supreme court held that marriage is a civil right. why do you seek to deny people their civil rights?

      August 5, 2012 at 11:32 am |
  5. AGuest9

    Ironically, the ignorance of religion has been a threat to scientific thought for centuries, just ask Copernic, Galilei, and others. Also ask contemporary science teachers in Texas, Kansas, Pennsylvania and Louisiana. Remember that the catholic church also deemed that the inner workings of the human body were "god's domain" until Andreas Vesalius was allowed to dissect hanged prisoners. Not ironically, he wasn't able to locate a "soul".

    August 5, 2012 at 9:37 am |
    • Nclaw441

      There are many, many scientists and other learned persons who are Christians.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
  6. Philip

    Amazing how you Christians are "always under attack". Yet you see no issue with suppressing the rights of others all in the name of your invisible god. The more you people open your mouths, the more crazy you sound. I personally have no problem with your deviant behavior, but could you PLEASE do it in the privacy of your own church???

    August 5, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • dave

      Hey Philip...i would never suppress your rights to speak ... however I wish you would not step on the freedoms of others to speak theirs...GUILT usually is followed by suppression..thanks for proving my point :) God bless ya my friend

      August 5, 2012 at 9:43 am |
    • Scott

      ... the same could be said about you.

      August 5, 2012 at 11:19 am |
  7. Bob

    Since this really isn't about gays and gay marriage I decided to post some scriptures about atheists since most on this posts are not by gays but by atheists. They are the ones that perpetuate most of these blogs and harass most of the posters here under the banner of equal rights for gays but really it has nothing to do with that its about taking God out of this country.
    sa 14:1The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good.
    O God, You are my God; I shall seek You earnestly; My soul thirsts for You, my flesh yearns for You, In a dry and weary land where there is no water.
    Psa 63:2 Thus I have seen You in the sanctuary, To see Your power and Your glory.
    Psa 63:3 Because Your lovingkindness is better than life, My lips will praise You.
    Psa 63:4 So I will bless You as long as I live; I will lift up my hands in Your name.
    Psa 63:5 My soul is satisfied as with marrow and fatness, And my mouth offers praises with joyful lips.
    Psa 63:6 When I remember You on my bed, I meditate on You in the night watches,
    Psa 63:7 For You have been my help, And in the shadow of Your wings I sing for joy.
    Psa 63:8 My soul clings to You; Your right hand upholds me.
    Psa 63:9 But those who seek my life to destroy it, Will go into the depths of the earth.
    Psa 63:10 They will be delivered over to the power of the sword; They will be a prey for foxes.
    Psa 63:11 But the king will rejoice in God; Everyone who swears by Him will glory, For the mouths of those who speak lies will be stopped.
    Isa 57:20 But the wicked are like the tossing sea, For it cannot be quiet, And its waters toss up refuse and mud.
    Isa 57:21 "There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."
    Luk 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth."
    Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
    Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;
    Eph 5:8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light

    August 5, 2012 at 9:11 am |
    • AGuest9

      Interesting. How many "men of god" have committed abominable deeds? Joshua attacked the city of Jericho, killing every man, woman and child, except the family of Rahab. How many innocent women and children were killed in sieges during the Crusades? More recently, Harry Truman ordered atomic weapons dropped on two cities in Ja.pan in 1945. Hitler (baptized a catholic) devised a systematic process of killing millions of Europeans, mostly jews. How many unarmed women and children were killed by G.W. Bush's modern-day crusade against Iraq?

      August 5, 2012 at 9:49 am |
    • ThePhDScientist

      Bob it's not about taking God out of the country – it's about keeping the mortal men who claim to know how to interpret the bible in check. Men like you who quote the scripture also made arguments in favor of slavery (from Leviticus to Exodus the Bible appears to condone the practice). Men like you also used the scripture to deny women voting rights – again depending on how mortal men wish to interpret the bible, it appears God has told women your place is subservient to your man (thus no need to vote).

      We are here to tell you – you're wrong! You don't know how to interpret the bible and biblical discrimination against gays is just another one of the many things you have been wrong about.

      August 5, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • Bob

      The atomic weapons ended needless suffering because there was stil fighting even though they did not have a chance of winning. By dropping it many countless lives were saved because the end of the war came immediately after that. Hitler was gay but needed the Christian support

      August 5, 2012 at 11:24 am |
  8. T

    Actually, the controversy ignited when it came to light that Chic-Fil-A donates to two, extremist christian organizations that are working to prevent gays from having the right to marry.

    Nice try at revisionist history, but you failed.

    August 5, 2012 at 8:44 am |
    • saggyroy

      Its just xtians being xtians...

      August 5, 2012 at 9:13 am |
  9. random passerby

    for well reasoned arguments and evidence for the existence of God, see creation.com or christianthinktank.com

    cheers

    August 5, 2012 at 2:38 am |
    • tallulah13

      I did my due diligence and checked out those sites. I saw a bunch of stuff for sale on one, and a bunch of topics that were based on the as.sumption that god was real on the other. If there is actual proof on those sites, please provide a direct link instead of simply the home page.

      August 5, 2012 at 2:49 am |
    • TampaSunday

      Christian think tank – there's an oxymoron for you.

      August 5, 2012 at 9:47 am |
  10. Rufus T. Firefly

    Why, out of all the people commenting on this issue, is no one willing / able to respond to this simple question?

    Where exactly in the bible is Jesus reported to have spoken out against homosexuality? Where did he even address it?

    He didn't, and the rationalization by some that Jesus upheld the OT laws does not explain why Christians don't adamantly enforce those other OT laws (like sacrificing goats or wearing clothing made of different threads). Jesus was very clear about a number of things that Christians don't bother with at all, so why does it seem to go without question that it is the moral obligation for every Christian to obsess over the "sinfulness" of homosexuality?

    Please clarify why being intolerant of homosexuality is a Christian – as in modeled after the teachings of Christ – perspective.

    August 5, 2012 at 1:56 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      I gotta agree on that one. I also say that as Christians if we want to go back to the Old Testament and those ten commandments. If it was going to be as big of a "against the will of God" as folks make it out to be then I have always believed that it would have been one of the "Thou shalt nots"

      Stealing (VIII), lying (IX), and of course number VII. If we as Christians are going to go to war over Gays and Lesbians then we should try to cover the Ten, first.

      August 5, 2012 at 2:05 am |
    • Bob

      Actually I responded to this reposted question 3 times on 3 pages but I guess you poop and run and don't read to whoever is posting this but its really nice to repost this again.
      Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
      Mat 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
      Mat 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
      Lev 18:21 "Do not permit any of your children to be offered as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not bring shame on the name of your God. I am the LORD.
      Lev 18:22 "Do not practice h0m0, having intercourse with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
      Lev 18:23 "A man must not defile himself by having intercourse with an animal. And a woman must not offer herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it. This is a perverse act.
      Ti 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
      1Ti 1:10 and immoral men and h0m0 and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
      Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor h0m0
      1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
      Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
      Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
      He created them man and woman. The command was go multiply and populate the earth. He created Eve out of Adams rib to be a help mate and said they shall become one flesh.
      1Ki 8:23 He said, "O LORD, the God of Israel, there is no God like You in heaven above or on earth beneath, keeping covenant and showing lovingkindness to Your servants who walk before You with all their heart,

      August 5, 2012 at 8:40 am |
    • thousanddolla

      I am a devout Christian who lives with three, liberal non-Christians. They happen to be my wife and adult children. Your answer was the exact answer I gave them. Their goal in trying to beat me down was to prove, by logic, in their uninformed, anti-Christian minds, that Christ is intolerant. Everything Christ said in my Bible is in red text. I challenged them to find it. Now they are the ones rethinking their anti- everything Christian viewpoints. BRAVO Rufus!

      August 5, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • ThePhDScientist

      But thousandolla – don't you see the problem. Men like Bob and Dan Cathy (with his funding of hate groups) are tainting Christianity for all the true believers. They obsess over gay marriage while ignoring all the other sins, like say gluttony! Chick-Fil-A , with its tasty fried chicken full of saturated fat and calories, undoubtedly contributes to the gluttonous behavior of overweight and obese Americans. In fact 2 out of 3 Americans are obese or overweight – so where is the Christian outrage.

      This is the reason why nonbelievers look upon religion with disgust and disdain. It's these men who decide which sins they choose to persecute while ignoring or even condoning all of the other sins with which they find less harmful or distasteful.

      August 5, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • Rufus T. Firefly

      I didn't ignore your answer, Bob, it's just that none of those scriptures are examples of Jesus addressing gays. Both of the other Christians in these replies even admitted that. You are doing that OT laws rationalization that I had already mentioned.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • Bob

      It is the Old Testament that spoke very plainly about the H0m0 and some in the New Testament, that is Gods law Jesus never changed the laws so if you read you would see
      Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
      Mat 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
      That is a pretty clear answer.

      August 5, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
  11. therealpeace2all

    @LinCA, @tallulah13... and @Bob.. and everyone else

    Good night everyone !

    Peace...

    August 5, 2012 at 1:25 am |
    • LinCA

      Good night.

      Peace.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:59 am |
    • tallulah13

      good night!

      August 5, 2012 at 2:49 am |
  12. Debora

    I am 99.9999 percent certain that Chik-Fil-A makes no effort to give humane – Christian – treatment to the chickens it uses to make a profit. So evidently this "legendary" Cathy family chooses when it's going to behave with Christian values, and when it's not. Guess it wouldn't be convenient – or profitable – to treat the chickens kindly....and believe me, factory-farmed chickens live in hell every day.

    August 5, 2012 at 12:05 am |
    • Bob

      Now that is funny couldn't do better than that huh?? One time this farmer went to cut a chickens head off and left a little portion of the brain and that thing ran around for 2 weeks they fed it through the gullet. Maybe that's what happened to you???

      August 5, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • tallulah13

      So you don't care about the humane treatment of animals, Bob? I guess that's all part of that whole christian specialness.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • Bob

      tallulah13
      Not worth a response

      August 5, 2012 at 1:06 am |
    • tallulah13

      And yet you responded.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:12 am |
    • Bob

      Yea just telling you that the bait wasn't worth a bite just so you would know. Try something a little better next time.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • tallulah13

      And here you are responding again. I guess if you can't defend yourself, this is the best you can do.

      August 5, 2012 at 2:52 am |
  13. therealpeace2all

    Reblogged this on peace2alldotme.

    August 4, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
  14. William Hudson

    The polls show that 65% of Democrats approve of gay marriage. Polls that show a slight majority of Americans supporting gay marriage are obviously skewed with an oversampling of Democrat voters, and no one has ever accused the Democrat party of being the party that upholds high moral values. The only meaningful poll will take place in November. Can't wait!

    August 4, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • LinCA

      @William Hudson

      Seeing the support for Chick-fil-A and their bigotry, I am amazed, no flabbergasted, no at a complete and utter loss to understand, how anyone, and I mean anyone, can hold these beliefs. How can any sane person, and I mean anyone, believe that there is a rational reason to discriminate against a disliked minority based on their religion? Isn't is excruciatingly obvious that those views are wrong, no, worse than wrong, immoral?

      We live in a society that provides freedom of religion. The US Constitution, as the absolute highest law of the land, guarantees that everyone can freely exercise their own religion, and worship as they see fit. Freely exercising your own chosen religion is only possible if everyone else keeps their religion out of your life. The US Constitution therefor guarantees that religion can never set secular policy.

      If religion can never set secular policy, the religious argument against same sex marriage only affects those that adhere to that particular religion. It doesn't ever apply to anyone that doesn't subscribe to that religion. So, if you think that your religion prohibits same sex marriage, you are free to not enter into one, but you are not free to prevent anyone else from entering into one.

      Claiming that there is a religious argument to prohibit secular same sex marriage, IS trying to force your religion on someone else. It is the textbook definition of bigotry.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:15 am |
    • Bob

      Hudson are you a atheist?? come on tell us the truth.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:38 am |
    • Bob

      Right from LinCa website so we have one atheist here not a gay at least he hasnt said anything about it yet
      I don’t know all the answers, and neither does science. I’m OK with that. Inserting a deity in any explanation provides “an answer” but it closes the issue for further study and greater understanding. Any time a god is used to explain something, it inevitably creates another opportunity for science to prove religion wrong.I see no evidence that there is a god. Even if there is, I see no evidence that this god is actively involved with the reality as we experience it.
      I have a question for you Lin why does a belief in something cut off belief in anything else?? Let me put it this way as a Christian I had to come to terms that if God is God then there's nothing He doesn't know about and nothing threatens Him, this includes science so why do you think science excludes God???

      August 5, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "Right from LinCa website"
      Thanks for visiting. I hope you clicked on a few ads while you were there. I sure like the income generated from believers.

      You said, "I have a question for you Lin why does a belief in something cut off belief in anything else??"
      Because claiming "god did it" provides an answer. Once you have the answer, further study can only reveal that your god didn't do it.

      You said, "Let me put it this way as a Christian I had to come to terms that if God is God then there's nothing He doesn't know about and nothing threatens Him, this includes science so why do you think science excludes God???"
      Science doesn't "exclude god". There are plenty of scientists that are also believers. As long as they keep their work and beliefs separate, there is no issue. But once you mix religion and science it ceases to be science. Science is about evidence leading to greater understanding. Religion is about believing in the absence of evidence, or even in spite of the evidence.

      Every time religion and science agree, religion got it right by luck.
      Every time they disagree, religion is wrong. No exceptions.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:53 am |
    • tallulah13

      Bob: Humanity has worshiped literally thousands of gods throughout history. Most of those gods were obviously created in response to the unknown.

      There are almost 50 known gods who were believed to be responsible for creating lightening and thunder. Most of these gods are no longer worshiped, because humans have discovered the real reasons for the natural phenomena. That's the way with gods. The cult of the christian god is primarily about the great unknown of death and what comes after. There is a reason why the primary tenet of your faith is the promised triumph of over death.

      Fear of the unknown is the reason why your church thrives. There is no logical reason to believe in any god, but there are emotional reasons, indeed.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:04 am |
    • Bob

      To say that there is no logical reason is to call me hysterical or crazy I don't like being called names just because your little pea brain cannot get a grip on the fact that God is real. You are the bigot and look down on other people just because your understanding is so limited and narrow. Its Christians that reached out and searched for God and found Him to be real and true but you didn't so rather than really looking yourself you just gave up and called everyone else stupid deluded and narrow minded. What a loser atheists are because you still didn't answer if you are gay or not. Maybe you would like to believe that there is mass hysteria around Christians and that they are so altruistic that they can worship a God that they get nothing out of and that mass hysteria is 85% of the population. I would say that makes you not only the minority but also the ones that have a problem.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:14 am |
    • Bob

      Theres one problem if the Bible got it right by luck and was written 2000 years ago then the percentages of that happening are one in a hundred trillion and there are so many prophecies that have already come true exactly as the Bible predicted that the percentages are barely calculable. Science has never done that.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:19 am |
    • tallulah13

      This quote is from you, bob: "To say that there is no logical reason is to call me hysterical or crazy I don't like being called names just because your little pea brain cannot get a grip on the fact that God is real."

      You are the one who is implying hysterical or crazy. I know many intelligent people who believe in god and recognize that their belief is based on emotion, rather than logic. Also, you are the one who is calling names. You call me pea brain because I don't believe what you cannot prove. Sounds pretty emotional to me.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • Bob

      I wanted to mention LInca that I dont have to have a website to earn money God has already blessed me abundantly with my normal work I guess you cannot say the same. I actually think your site needs more creativity and to fill it out more with some stories but I never mind helping anyone out even a atheist you see that is a true Christian.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:23 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "To say that there is no logical reason is to call me hysterical or crazy"
      Care to present you logical case? Do you have any evidence that shows your imaginary friend is anything but imaginary?

      You said, "I don't like being called names just because your little pea brain cannot get a grip on the fact that God is real."
      I'm not the adult who still believes in the Tooth Fairy. If you have any evidence to back up your ridiculous claim that there is a creature like your god, I'd like to hear about it.

      You said, "You are the bigot and look down on other people just because your understanding is so limited and narrow."
      You may want to look up the definition of "bigot". I'm not the one telling you how to live your life. You are free to believe the obvious horse crap you so obviously do.

      You said, "Its Christians that reached out and searched for God and found Him to be real and true but you didn't so rather than really looking yourself you just gave up and called everyone else stupid deluded and narrow minded. What a loser atheists are because you still didn't answer if you are gay or not."
      I don't know why I even ask, but don't you get it? Not everyone is interested in your fairy tale. Keep your nonsense to yourself.

      You said, "Maybe you would like to believe that there is mass hysteria around Christians and that they are so altruistic that they can worship a God that they get nothing out of and that mass hysteria is 85% of the population."
      The only reason there are so many believers is that, unlike with belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy, beliefs in gods are reinforced after children start to doubt them. Indoctrination is a powerful tool. For the proponents of religion, it helps that a large portion of the population is pretty gullible.

      You said, "I would say that makes you not only the minority but also the ones that have a problem."
      The minority is growing. The "problem" is believers who can't seem to keep their delusions out of the lives of the rest of us.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:30 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "I wanted to mention LInca that I dont have to have a website to earn money God has already blessed me abundantly with my normal work I guess you cannot say the same."
      Don't worry about me. I earn plenty in my day job. The extra money I get from ad revenues go straight to the effort to destroy the cancer that religion is.

      You said, "I actually think your site needs more creativity and to fill it out more with some stories but I never mind helping anyone out even a atheist you see that is a true Christian."
      You might be surprised to know how many visitors I get. Mostly believers.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:35 am |
    • Bob

      You just proved my point thank you. I will explain it for your weak mind and slow comprehension can grasp it. You cant believe so its crap well that's how we feel about gay marriage we understand you don't see our point so again its crap to you so who is the one that bigoted. I have proof in praying for people and having them healed and in the Bible in prophecy and in words of confirmation something you wouldn't be able to grasp so don't even bother your little head. But really are you gay or just a good Samaritan that cares so much that 2% of the population should have the right to marry. Or what is the real reason you have a dog in this fight tell the truth if you can.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:38 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Bob, we know your beliefs are crap 'cause you have nothing to support them. Go ahead, give us your best proof that your god is real.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:43 am |
    • Bob

      Atheists are usually a little smarter than that or maybe you had a bad day, reread the post you may be able to understand it after a few times.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:48 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "You just proved my point thank you."
      Oh, you had a point? I hadn't noticed. </sarcasm>

      You said, "I will explain it for your weak mind and slow comprehension can grasp it."
      Please do try.

      You said, "You cant believe so its crap well that's how we feel about gay marriage we understand you don't see our point so again its crap to you so who is the one that bigoted."
      You are free not to engage in a same sex marriage if you feel that's not your thing. Nobody is forcing you. When christians try to deny others (not just themselves, but others) the right to happiness, and marriage is where the bigotry comes in.

      Did you know that there is a strong correlation between homophobia and arousal by homosexual imagery. Could it be that all these homophobes are actually gay and just trying to hide that fact? Smart money says they are.
      See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

      You said, "I have proof in praying for people and having them healed and in the Bible in prophecy and in words of confirmation something you wouldn't be able to grasp so don't even bother your little head."
      Whatever floats your boat. You are free to believe that nonsense (I thought I was clear on that?). It just doesn't carry very much weight if you try to convince anyone with the ability and willingness to use their brain.

      You said, "But really are you gay or just a good Samaritan that cares so much that 2% of the population should have the right to marry."
      Who gives a rat's ass whether I'm gay or straight? Are you sizing me up for a hot night?

      You said, "Or what is the real reason you have a dog in this fight tell the truth if you can."
      Any reasonable person who wants a society that is just and civilized has a dog in this fight. Anyone who wants equality will have to stand up against the religious bigotry.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:49 am |
    • rick

      bigotry is a "high moral value", billy boy?

      August 5, 2012 at 2:06 am |
  15. Eric

    I am still fuzzy on what is hate and bigotry. Christians believe in SIN. All sin is to be avoided not embraced. Christians do not hate GA .ys The act is a sin, just like alcholism, adultry, and the list is big. We are all guity of committing sin. It is only through Chr ,ist Jes. us we are forgiven. How is that hate to love another person so much to tell them the good news.

    August 4, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Jen

      So why aren't you leading the charge in making remarriage illegal? That is adultery, plain and simple. Oh, let me guess, your answer is that you don't approve of it. BUT you do NOTHING TO PREVENT IT. I'll bet you have attended someone's second wedding, but never stood up when the pastor asked if anyone knows why the bride and groom should not be joined together (you probably thought that was rude to do something like that, that it was not your place tl say something). Well, you're a hypocrite and not a real Christian.

      August 4, 2012 at 9:56 pm |
    • Jen

      I meant 'to'

      August 4, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      "I am still fuzzy on what is hate and bigotry. "

      One word, Religion.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • Eric

      Remarriage is not a sin. For example if a spouse dies you can remarry. it is divorce that is frowned upon and that to is OK if a spouse cheats.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:02 pm |
    • Eric

      I am not doing anything to prevent Ga y marriage other then vote against it if i have the chance, but I would also vote against divorce, abortion, and like issues just the same.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      " it is divorce that is frowned upon and that to is OK if a spouse cheats."

      Do you have docu*mentation to back-up your claim?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • Eric

      http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html thats a good start.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:07 pm |
    • Eric

      Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

      August 4, 2012 at 10:11 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Just admit it. You know deep down its wrong to discriminate against gay people.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:12 pm |
    • Jen

      And where does it say in the bible that you are free to commit adultery if your spouse does? You didn't answer my question. Do you have any friends that got divorced due to irreconcilable differences and remarried? Do you remind them daily that they are going to h-ll? You're not a true Christian if you aren't telling the 'truth' daily.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:13 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Eric

      I went to the site Eric, I read a couple of paragraphs and I must admit that you are being given a bunch of "Jesus might have meant this or that" or "possibly". As soon as I started seeing words like that a red flag jumped-out. It's too bad you don't see it as it is quite obvious that there is no substance or proof to anything. So I'm guessing you believe the world is 6000 years old, Adam and Eve and Noah's Ark?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
    • Jen

      That passage only applies to men. What about women? Oh right, they have to be alone forever if they get divorced. That's because the bible considers women to be property. What a moral book.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:15 pm |
    • Eric

      I do not discriminate against anyone. Atleast try not to i am not perfect. I am not here to tell people what they should or shouldnt do, only to tell them the truth about Je sus and through him all sins are forgiven not matter how bad we think they are. He will forgive if you want him to. GOD loves you unconditionally and is waiting.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Jen

      Hey Jen! Do you think you and I could ever get married, I mean, you and I together, married?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • Eric

      It applies to women also, during that time period women were not permitted to divorce the husband had to. The culture today has change but the principle is there

      August 4, 2012 at 10:19 pm |
    • Eric

      @Voice of Reason No i do not I believe the universe began with the big bang. I believe that the modern therory of evolution has some merit. Even if all these theories were 100% correct though it doesnt take anything away from GOD. He still created the universe, set up all the laws of nature. I see purpose in the universe not random chance.

      A couple holes in the theory of evolution is how did protine molecules form. How diud the cell come to be?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Jen

      That's what everyone says. My bil is gay and Catholic and he understands that some people believe he is going to h-ll. Gays realize that people think that and where in the bible you are getting it from. THEY DON'T CARE!!!! They don't share your belief so you can stop saying it!

      Just like the bible is clear that anyone that has premarital s-x is going to h-ll (ie almost everyone in the US). No one listens to that either.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Jen

      Awww sorry, VOR, already married :)

      August 4, 2012 at 10:25 pm |
    • Eric

      Jen that is far from true. I have had plenty of pre marital se x. I was not always christian. I have stolen cheated lied lusted. All of my sins are forgin through Jes us. And you know what I will sin again I do not want to but I am human and will make mistakes. But GOD loves us the same. It isnt my point of view that matters only GODS.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:28 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Jen

      Ah, shucks Jen! I thought we could have been great together. You the christian, me the atheist, living in harmony.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • Jen

      Great, then gay people can just ask god for forgiveness when they die. Problem solved. Oh, is it too late by then? Well more than one third of the US population is fat (MANY that are Christian), and will go through their lives that way (eating garbage food like chik fil A). It will be too late for them too don't forget.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:33 pm |
    • Eric

      Death will come to us all, the last minuite confession is addressed somewher but dont remember off hand.
      We all sinned it doesnt matter what sin JAMES 2;10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. that covers the entire population we all need forgivness only Jes us can do that

      August 4, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Eric

      Please educate yourself on the theory of evolution and you would have a better understanding of it rather than some impression you hold via religious websites or propaganda. Read the truth Eric not just you bible.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:40 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Eric

      Eric, it is quite apparent that you are brainwashed, and hey, good for you if you are happy, right? I have a couple of questions though:

      Who or what created your god?

      What happens when you die?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • Eric

      There are people on all side of every topic that lack tact and personality. It is about relationship and helping those in need not pointing out where some else is stumbling Matthew 7;3 And why worry about a speck in your friend's eye when you have a log in your own?

      Problem alot of people associate as christians but just because you go to church weekly does not mean you are. If there are christians taking offence to this statement then yes this means you.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:46 pm |
    • Eric

      GOD has always existed. Time is irrelevent to GOD. He existed prior to the universe space time is limited to within the universe.

      When we die there are a couple different things that scripture leads us to. I really dont know for sure myself but 1 view is you go and be with GOD another is a waiting place (not purgatory) thats a Cathloic thing but they gety it fom there. Another view is that the next conscience is the grear white throne judgement. I am still studing this. Either way the book of revolation has alot to say in this area.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:52 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Eric
      "GOD has always existed. Time is irrelevent to GOD. He existed prior to the universe space time is limited to within the universe."

      And I am going to assume you have proof of this, right? Or is it just a belief? Is it a fact? Or you have faith it's true? Also, the afterlife thingy, what's it going to be like and how do you get there, what does it look like and what do you do there? Will it be fun?

      August 4, 2012 at 10:57 pm |
    • Eric

      This is belief, faith yes. We can not observe beyond our universe. And at that the 3D universe. So we can not prove it. But it is also a belief GOD does not exist once again we can not observe. We have the bible to learn from.

      At some point it all comes down to belief for all of us even the ones who say the do not believe. I know I was one of them

      August 4, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Eric

      There ire p[lenty of scripture to indicate this if you would like i can find them and post them

      August 4, 2012 at 11:03 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Eric

      Don't bother, I already know them. I was once a believer but never again. It's all a big lie. A waste of human life. See ya, all the best!

      August 4, 2012 at 11:05 pm |
    • Eric

      2 peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

      Revolation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Eric

      Then you know the story of the prodigal son.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • Jun

      @Jen.. Would you mind explaining why couples "that got divorced due to irreconcilable differences and remarried is illegal are going to h-ll?".

      Can you quote a single section in any articles of the consti.tution or a single verse in the Holy Bible that says that?

      August 4, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Manda

      Sorry to butt in, Jen, but:

      Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery," (Matt. 19:9).

      August 4, 2012 at 11:42 pm |
    • Bob

      Hey Eric did you ask if any of these people are gay and if there not why are they so interested in gay marriage??

      August 4, 2012 at 11:43 pm |
    • Manda

      The irony is, Jesus said very explicit things about marriage, about adultery, about lots of behaviors that Christians utterly ignore. But he never once spoke out against ho.mose.xuality. Not ever. But Christians are hung up on it as if it were a cornerstone of their faith. It seems that Christians are using their religion as an excuse to be intolerant of who they don't like, regardless of the actual scriptures.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:48 pm |
    • Bob

      Mat 19:7 They *said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
      Mat 19:8 He *said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
      Mar 10:3 And He answered and said to them, "What did Moses command you?"
      Mar 10:4 They said, "Moses permitted a man TO WRITE A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY."
      Mar 10:5 But Jesus said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.
      Mar 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, God MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE.
      Mar 10:7 "FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER,
      Mar 10:8 AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH; so they are no longer two, but one flesh.
      Mar 10:9 "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
      Actually also another great argument against gay marriage

      August 4, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
    • Bob

      Actually Manda I reposted this just for you,,, you will also notice that whoever annuls one of the least of these commandments will be called least did you get that????
      Mat 5:18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
      Mat 5:19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
      Mat 5:20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
      Lev 18:21 "Do not permit any of your children to be offered as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not bring shame on the name of your God. I am the LORD.
      Lev 18:22 "Do not practice h0m0, having intercourse with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin.
      Lev 18:23 "A man must not defile himself by having intercourse with an animal. And a woman must not offer herself to a male animal to have intercourse with it. This is a perverse act.
      Ti 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
      1Ti 1:10 and immoral men and h0m0 and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,
      Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor h0m0
      1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
      Gen 3:16 To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
      Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
      He created them man and woman. The command was go multiply and populate the earth. He created Eve out of Adams rib to be a help mate and said they shall become one flesh.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Bob

      Hi -Bob...

      You Said: " Hey Eric did you ask if any of these people are gay and if there[sic] not why are they so interested in gay marriage?? "

      Interesting... Let me put your posting in a different but, basically equivalent way:

      ..."Hey Eric did you ask if any of these people are (black) and if they're not, why are they so interested in 'equality' for 'inter-racial' marriage, equal rights, etc... "

      Do you get the point, -Bob...? What does it matter if anyone is gay or not in relationship to posting their opinions...?

      Regards,

      Peace...

      August 4, 2012 at 11:58 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Eric, it's bigotry when you cling to tradition, rather than recognize that our knowledge of how the human mind and body works has advanced light years in the last 2000 years. There is more evidence that hom.os.exuality is innate than there is evidence to support the existence of any god. Why insist that people are 'sinners' for being exactly who they were born to be, on the basis of what you believe?

      Religion is a choice. Se.xual orientation is not.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:02 am |
    • therealpest2all

      @therealpeace2all

      I just wish that you have the peace of mind to see and a lil common-sense to grasp that marriage in the Holy Bible wasn't about race but with the OPOSSITE genders.

      pest.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:09 am |
    • tallah20:13

      @tallulah

      "Religion is a choice. Se.xual orientation is not."

      Yes, "Se.xual orientation" but NOT the (ho.mo) se.xual ACT.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • Bob

      Peace2All
      Noticed a few things first you didn't answer my question nor has anyone else. Next what is the reason anyone but the gays are interested in this discussion?? Could it be that the atheists have a dog in this fight and label it as equality but really it is about either beating up Christians or just making society more gamey for themselves it makes a difference because they could care less about the gays as long as it gets them closer to what they want. It also makes a difference in how you respond to them they are not interested in converting and not interested in the gay fairness issue so why give a dam what you respond to them and not a gay person. Who is really the low life of society that uses the gays to achieve their own point?? and you say Christians are bigots which is not true, but at least we don't use people.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "Could it be that the atheists have a dog in this fight and label it as equality but really it is about either beating up Christians"
      Get a fucking clue. It's about equal rights. Always has, always will be. It's the bigotry on the part of some christians that make this fight necessary.

      You said, "or just making society more gamey for themselves it makes a difference because they could care less about the gays as long as it gets them closer to what they want."
      Equality is what I want. Freedom from your religion is what I want. Keep your delusion to yourself, and don't try to force it on society, and you won't hear from me.

      You said, "It also makes a difference in how you respond to them they are not interested in converting and not interested in the gay fairness issue so why give a dam what you respond to them and not a gay person."
      I couldn't fucking care less if you shed your infantile beliefs. You are free to believe whatever bullshit you want. Stupidity isn't illegal. Believe in the Tooth Fairy, for all I care. It's your life, have at it.

      Just keep the horseshit out of my life.

      You said, "Who is really the low life of society that uses the gays to achieve their own point?"
      It's the people who can't seem to respect other people's freedom from religion. If I want your religion I'll join you. Until I do, keep it the hell away from me.

      You said, "and you say Christians are bigots which is not true, but at least we don't use people."
      Forcing anyone else to do or don't do something because your religion tells you to, is the textbook definition of bigotry. So yes, those christians are bigots.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • Bob

      CA getting a little hostile there just answer the dam question moron since you responded and how about the rest of you???

      August 5, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Bob

      Hi -Bob...

      You Said: " Noticed a few things first you didn't answer my question nor has anyone else. "

      Since, in the next paragraph, you said..."next" and then went to ask about 'why' anyone but gays, etc... So, (Which) question are you referring to Bob ?

      You Said: " (Next) what is the reason anyone but the gays are interested in this discussion??
      Could it be that the atheists have a dog in this fight and label it as equality but really it is about either beating up Christians or just making society more gamey for themselves it makes a difference because they could care less about the gays as long as it gets them closer to what they want."

      For me... I see this as an 'equality' issue, plain and simple.

      I believe that 'gays' should be allowed to love each other...and... have the same 'rights' as straight people. I believe that it is an injustice to them to see them and their relationships as evil, etc.. just because you think so. (I) personally have no "dog in this fight" nor 'any' desire to "beat up Christians" nor make "society more gamey" etc...? Whatever that means.

      2 more points -Bob... 1) You didn't respond to my an-alogy of what you said to @Eric. I'd like to see you respond as I have done to you, civilly.

      And... 2) I'm not exactly an 'atheist' ... I hope that my civil, logic and reasoned response to you still counts ?

      Regards,

      Peace...

      August 5, 2012 at 12:35 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "CA getting a little hostile there just answer the dam question moron since you responded and how about the rest of you???"
      Hostility begets hostility. As soon as christians stop their assault on society, the hostility will stop.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:39 am |
    • Bob

      LinCa so gays can burn a bar in NY down, for many years in a row be violent to the phycs at the apa. Get men elected to office and subvert the will of the people by doing what they want instead of upholding the oath. We can be abused by actually more atheists than gays and gays can team up with the socialist and all that is ok but when Christians state their values then they are wrong,, get a grip..

      August 5, 2012 at 12:50 am |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Bob

      I see you responded to @Tallulah13 and @LinCA.

      Still waiting...

      Peace...

      August 5, 2012 at 1:07 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "LinCa so gays can burn a bar in NY down, for many years in a row be violent to the phycs at the apa."
      While I don't condone violence, I can see how some will feel they have to fight back. The violence perpetrated against gays makes violence in return very understandable. Maybe it is time that bigots learn that when you play with fire, you may get burned.

      You said, "Get men elected to office and subvert the will of the people by doing what they want instead of upholding the oath."
      What are you blabbering about?

      You said, "We can be abused by actually more atheists than gays and gays can team up with the socialist and all that is ok but when Christians state their values then they are wrong,, get a grip.."
      You are free to state your opinion. You are not free to force them on anyone. Is it really so fucking hard to understand that your religion is yours alone? Are you really so dense that you can't grasp a simple concept of freedom of religion? Are you completely retarded?

      Let me see if I can express it so that even a first graded can understand: Keep your fucking religion out of the lives of the rest of us!

      August 5, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Bob, christians such as yourself who want to deny others such as gays their civil rights because your cult's alledged gods alledgedly said something are wrong because there is no factual, independent, verfiable or objective evidence for your god(s). If you can't provide evidence for your delusions, please shut the fuck up!

      August 5, 2012 at 1:29 am |
    • rick

      eric....how many other sinners do you seek to deny their civil rights?

      August 5, 2012 at 2:14 am |
  16. ljs2178

    We're at 14 minutes and 59 seconds on this topic. Time to move along.

    August 4, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
  17. Peter

    People need to just respect other individuals freedom and expression. I will never agree with every single opinion out there but I recognized that I have the right not to agree.

    August 4, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      I don't have to respect hate or bigotry, in fact, an opinion on favoring bigotry is practicing it. Yes they have the right to their opinion, granted, but what don't you understand about the christian agenda and feel you have to protect it?

      August 4, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Whine of Treason

      @Voice

      If promoting Christian Family values is "bigotry and hatred" to you, then you should stay in that squeaky armchair until you and your dusty CRT monitor changed faces inside that webby and dark basement in your century-old house. And ultimately deny yourself of breathing some fresh air. You're a colossal waste of oxygen.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
    • tallulah13

      If "christian family values" are discriminatory and harmful, they are indeed immoral and wrong.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:04 am |
    • tallah20:13

      It ultimately depends on WHO has the final say whether it is immoral and discriminatory or not. Is it the 1-4% (the highest 18%) of the world populace or God and the vast majority of those who believe in Him and His words.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:24 am |
    • tallulah13

      So what you are saying is that morality is relative. How funny. Usually it's the christians accusing the atheists of moral relativism.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • tallah20:13

      My point was, only God has the final say when it comes to morality. It's opposed by MINUTE MINORITY but being backed by the VAST MAJORITY.

      So who do you think who gonna win. A lil knowledge in Math surely helps.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:50 am |
    • tallulah13

      @tallah20:13

      Which god? There are several being worshiped in this country alone. There is not a single shred of evidence to support the existence of any of them, including yours.

      Are you trying to say that because there are more of you, that you get to chose who gets rights and who doesn't? Good thing that in the United States there is this little paper called the Consti.tution which was created for the very purpose of protecting the individual from bullies like you.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:27 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Once upon a time, most people thought the earth was flat.
      Once upon a time, most people thought the sun circled the earth.
      Once upon a time, many people thought slavery was ok.
      Once upon a time, many most people thought women were inferior to men.
      Once upon a time, many believed in astrology.
      Once upon a time, many believed gods existed.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:37 am |
  18. Peter

    No, I respect the freedom of expression. t

    August 4, 2012 at 9:23 pm |
    • Bob

      You may but others dont.

      August 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm |
  19. Peter

    Why have we gotten to the point that every comment that made offenses someone or group? Get over it folks, there are bigger issues to deal with.

    August 4, 2012 at 8:56 pm |
    • Bob

      Like what Peter like the lack of freedom to express a opinion

      August 4, 2012 at 9:03 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Chick-fil-a is a profit driven company. Millions of dollars from Chick-fil-a have gone to support groups that are actively trying to turn their personal bigotry into law. As long as those dollars come from public sales, we should be concerned about where that money goes.

      Legislated discrimination is not religion freedom. The author of this article is simply playing the victim in a effort to take attention away from his desire to victimize others.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:09 am |
  20. lamb of dog

    The best part is we are all arguing because of some silly storybook from 2000 years ago.

    August 4, 2012 at 8:16 pm |
    • Chad

      Bible, composed of 66 books, was written by over 40 authors, over a span of ~1500 years..

      Many atheists (not having a clue what is in the bible, or when it was written), make the same mistake...

      August 4, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Chadwatch, a public service

      You don't know the bible like me.....because I said you don't.

      THEREFORE JESUS IS LORD!!!

      August 4, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • Bob

      Atheism is a religion so don't make the mistake to call atheists non religious they are not only religious but closed minded and bigoted.

      August 4, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Bob

      Bob, how long are you going to believe atheism is a religion? We have given you the definition over and over, we have given you proof over and over, yet still you spout lies and say atheism is a religion. You are a typical foolish moron with no sense of value or ethics.

      August 4, 2012 at 9:34 pm |
    • Bob

      Atheism will be defined in the contemporary western sense: not just the lack of belief in a god, but the assertion about the non-existence of any gods, spirits, or divine or supernatural beings. Atheists in this sense are metaphysical naturalists, and as will be shown, they DO follow a religion.is the belief that there is no god. According to the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief. “Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist. Evolution is an explanation of where everything came from: the cosmos (came out of nothing at the big bang—nothing exploded and became everything); humans evolved from non-human creatures, hence humanity’s place in the cosmos is being just another species of animal. Some have gone so far as to say that humanity is a parasite on earth, and advocate killing up to 90% of humanity. There are some who attempt to combine belief in God with belief in evolution, not realizing the foundational nature of evolution’s connection to Atheism The testimony of those who after learning about evolution in “science” reject Christianity should alert church leaders to the incompatibility between evolution and the Gospel. The social dimension of religion looks at the hierarchies and power structures present within the religion, such the Hindu caste system. In missionary religions, it also includes how people get converted and how missionaries go about their work.Contemporary Atheism has been fueled largely by authors promoting their Atheistic beliefs. In the preface to The God Delusion, Dawkins says, If this book works as I intend, religious readers who open it will be atheists when they put it down. Dawkins is saying he hopes that his book converts “religious” people to his worldview – exactly what a missionary of any religion hopes to do.Communist countries often made the state religion Atheism, often to the point of persecuting (other) religions.This followed from Karl Marx’ statement. It [religion] is the opiate of the masses. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.Marxists saw the removal of religion as a step toward true happiness for the common people, although in practice this did not occur, and contemporary critics see Marxism itself as a religion. (I would contend that Marxism is a sect of a larger religion: Atheism).Many scientists are high up on the social hierarchy of Atheism because their research enhances their understanding of the world. Particularly honoured are those scientists who write extensively about evolution. Because of this, many scientists include a little about evolution in their research papers, even when there is little or no relevance (one recent example concerns research into the chameleon’s catapult tongue and suction cap; see Created, not evolved Atheism is also taught to children in many schools in science classes as evolution. As atheistic philosopher Michael Ruse admits, “evolution is a religion”, and it could be considered the narrative dimension of Atheism. Thus teaching evolution is teaching Atheism. Several Atheists even support teaching lies, as long as the end result is more children believing evolution. Atheism is a morally relativist religion. Most Atheists adhere to one ethical system or another, but in Atheism there is ultimately no foundation for morality, as atheists Dawkins and Provine admit. Many systems of ethics have been proposed; utilitarianism is probably the most popular one.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:03 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Bob

      You have to be kidding. That is the most ridiculous crap I've read tonight. You just pick-out the stuff that works for you Bob but this is just disgustingly hilarious!

      August 4, 2012 at 10:08 pm |
    • Sean

      The only knowledge these so called Bible knowing atheists have is from infidel.org which means they know nothing about the Bible and think they are fooling others by quoting verses when in fact they are sadly fooling themselves

      August 4, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Sean

      So sorry to bust your bubble there seany, BUT, the stats are in on that one and nonbelievers know more about the bible than the believers, proven.

      August 4, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • Bob

      Hey its just like I said you find it disgusting because it doesn't agree with your sphere of beliefs but it is not wrong. Atheists do have a active belief that there is no God they don't show indifference to God they have a firm, active belief and even try to convert people to their beliefs and science is their basis. So whats different??

      August 4, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • Bob

      So maybe the voice of reason, isn't the voice of reason??? but maybe the voice of personal conviction?? not open to reason??

      August 4, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Bob, every time you try to vilify evolution, you simply expose your fear of truth. I'm sorry that your dream of humans being special has been debunked by science. But consider it this way: If you no longer think that you're special, if you no longer think that the earth was built for your pleasure, maybe you'll take better care of this one planet we have. Maybe you'll be kinder to others when you realize that your belief is no more valid than any other. There is nothing wrong with being a simple human. It's sad that you're so ashamed of it.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Whine of Treason

      @Voice

      I thought you vs. Bob is a huge mismatch. And your ludicrous response to his latest comment takes away all my doubt.

      Do you have something better to counter Bob, than using T. Jefferson's old mantra as a way to scape an intelligent debate with Bob? Or that is all you've got.

      How about practicing what you preach and commence circ.umventing your intelligence and find something that is a lil bit more sensical against Bob? Rather than a lame attempt to undermine his argument to justify your ridicules.

      I doubt if you any ammos left in you to withstand a debate with Bob or with anyone. I just hope that a parrot won't humiliate you.

      August 4, 2012 at 11:59 pm |
    • Bob

      I love it science is good but it is not God and can only go where God has been. Lets look at the latest discovery of the God particle that gives things mass. They have a definite maybe that its there after billions of dollars they cant even say without a doubt yes or no, ok so lets go a little further and say that they did find it so how did that particle get there??? Science has helped mankind a lot but it cannot even cure the common cold so atheists use a incomplete god to worship while Christians worship the God that made everything.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:29 am |
    • LinCA

      @Bob

      You said, "Science has helped mankind a lot but it cannot even cure the common cold so atheists use a incomplete god to worship while Christians worship the God that made everything."
      Get a fucking clue. Science isn't a god, it's a method. Atheists don't worship science. They simply don't believe in fairy tales.

      Show me a single shred of evidence that shows that there are any gods. Without that all you have is an imaginary friend. Maybe it would be smart to shed the infantile beliefs. Your god is equally likely to exist as the Tooth Fairy.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:34 am |
    • tallulah13

      Bob, you are trying to distort science into something that suits your needs. Science is not influenced by opinion or personal desire. The beauty of science is that it is scrutinized and self-correcting. No human can dictate where an experiment will lead, they can only interpret the results. The only scientific "evidence" of your god's existence it the opinion you keep trying to shove into the equation.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:36 am |
    • Bob

      lin tallulah atheists and gays distort the Bible all the time that is what most of the posts are on CNN are. But I have only spoken the truth and agree that science is on going that's the real problem you know somethings correct till its proven not correct while the Bible was given 2000 years ago and still is correct today and relevant as for a small example who but the Bible said there would be a one world gov now we see that pretty clearly that it may soon come to pass. Also I guess you guys have never heard of any of the near death experiences that people see God or that hover above their bodies and tell the people what they were doing while these people were dead?? Besides not answering my question yet about being gay you can also see why being a atheist is a religion because you are blinded to not see or explore these things that happen. Plus because science does not have the ability to prove or measure these events because of sciences failure not Gods you guys also don't believe now that is a narrow and closed mind. How come science cant come up with a machine to measure the persons spirit and yet on tv and other places they actually have shows around spotting ghosts only as example of something science has failed in.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:03 am |
    • tallulah13

      bob, there is no proof that the bible is anything more than a compilation of ancient Middle Eastern mythology. There is not a single shred of evidence to support the existence of your god. Why in the world does your bible deserve the same respect as knowledge that has been tested and reviewed, and will be happily discarded if it is discovered to be false? Your personal belief, even the belief of millions of people does not prove that your god, or any god, exists, or that the bible is his word.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • LinCA

      Bob

      You said, "lin tallulah atheists and gays distort the Bible all the time that is what most of the posts are on CNN are."
      What the bible says is irrelevant. It's a book of fables and fairy tales. But if you want to live your life by your fairy tale, go right ahead.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Bob

      Hi -Bob...

      " Also I guess you guys have never heard of any of the (near death experiences) that people see God or that hover above their bodies and tell the people what they were doing while these people were dead??"

      I... have had a 'near death experience' (NDE)... what would you like to know ?

      Peace...

      August 5, 2012 at 1:11 am |
    • Bob

      therealpeace2all yes I actually would like to hear about it.

      August 5, 2012 at 1:26 am |
    • Rufus T. Firefly

      There was actually a pretty clever study carried out by operating room nurses. They placed playing cards on tops of cabinets and equipment so they could only be seen from above. No one who reported near death experiences of hovering overhead in the operating room reported seeing the cards, even when prompted in interviews.

      August 5, 2012 at 2:56 am |
    • Bob

      Rufus I would like to see that so please find it or post the link. I think your lying but it would be interesting to see

      August 5, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • Rufus T. Firefly

      Here ya go. Not everyone who knows something you don't is a liar, Bob, and you won't make any friends by accusing them of such.

      Sartori, Penny
      The Near-Death Experiences of Hospitalized Intensive Care Patients: A Five Year Clinical Study. (2008)
      The Edwin Mellen Press: Lewiston, Queenston, Lampeter.

      Here's a good summary of many of such studies:
      h.ttp:/./skeptoid.com/episodes/4261

      ...or you could just learn to use Google, Bob.

      August 5, 2012 at 12:09 pm |
    • Beth

      tallulah13, even the every day Jew doesn't care for the Zjews who you follow. They follow man made teachings of the Pharisees, none of which are God's.

      August 5, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Oh, good, Beth, your back. I wanted to make sure you got the entire gist of the study you kept quoting:

      "Several studies have revealed that people who practice meditation or have prayed for many years exhibit increased activity and have more brain tissue in their frontal lobes, regions associated with attention and reward, as compared with people who do not meditate or pray. A more recent study revealed that people who have had “born again” experiences have a smaller hippocampus, a part of the brain involved in emotions and memory, than atheists do. These findings, however, are difficult to interpret because they do not clarify whether having larger frontal lobes or a smaller hippocampus causes a person to become more religious or whether being pious triggers changes in these brain regions."

      http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=is-there-a-difference-between-the-brain

      As for your post here, I have no idea what you are talking about. All I know is thist: There is no proof of any god. Therefore there is no rational reason to believe in any god, or to believe that god wrote any "rules".

      August 5, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.