By Dan Gilgoff and Dan Merica, CNN
(CNN) – An atheist group that raised a pair of billboards taking aim at the presidential candidates’ religion at the site of next month’s Democratic National Convention has pulled the signs after what the group called a “large volume of threats.”
The billboards, sponsored by American Atheists, took aim at Mormonism and Christianity and went up this month in Charlotte, North Carolina, which will play host to the Democratic convention.
Presumptive Republican nominee Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and President Barack Obama is also a Christian.
The billboard targeting Christianity featured an image of Jesus Christ on toast and this description of the faith: "Sadistic God; Useless Savior, 30,000+ Versions of ‘Truth,’ Promotes Hates, Calls it ‘Love.’ ”
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The billboard targeting Mormonism lambasted – and, Mormons would say, distorted – specific Mormon doctrines: "God is a Space Alien, Baptizes Dead People, Big Money, Big Bigotry.”
The Mormon billboard featured a man in white underwear, a reference to special Mormon garments.
American Atheists said the billboards provoked a “large volume of threats” by phone and e-mail and that the group reported the threats to police.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
“It is with regret that we tell our members and all of those who treasure free speech and the separation of religion and government that American Atheists and Adams Outdoor Advertising have mutually agreed to remove the billboards immediately,” Amanda Knief, American Atheists’ managing director, said in a statement last week.
“No subject, no idea should be above scrutiny – and this includes religion in all forms,” Knief said. “We are saddened that by choosing to express our rights as atheists through questioning the religious beliefs of the men who want to be our president that our fellow citizens have responded with vitriol, threats and hate speech against our staff, volunteers and Adams Outdoor Advertising.”
American Atheists had wanted to put the anti-Mormon billboard in Tampa, Florida, to coincide with this week's Republican National Convention.
When no billboard company in the city would lease the group space for such a sign, American Atheists President David Silverman said the organization decided to focus solely on the Democrats in Charlotte.
A is for the awful things they say here
T is for the terror that they spread
H is for the horrors that swear by
I is for the innocents they've bled
E is for the ease that they can lie with
S is for the Satan that they serve
T is for the trillions that they've killed
Put them all together they spell atheist
The ones who make this world run red
actually you spelled
which presumably means something that is the most ATHI it can be.
needs work- truth told -switch a line.
Oh, oh, oh. I have one too.
B is for the Bullshit they believe in
E is for the Errors they commit
L is for the Lies they tell
I is for the Ignorance they embrace
E is for the Excrement that they are
V is for the Venom they spout
E is for the Evil they worship
R is for the Ridicule they deserve
S is for the Stupidity that they embody
Put them all together and the spell fucking morons.
God is not sadistic; He is trying to make us realize the blessings go with obedience to His wisdom. When we ignore God, we have no HOLY SPIRIT to guide and protect us; and by my own experience, we do very stupid things and fail to question evidence that could save us problems.
Athiesm is not reasonable. Too many atheists have been college trained by people with an agenda to destroy our faith and degrade our society. Links below. The first few pages of the Bible have been proven by simple observation and science. Almost all things are created with a seed to reproduce its own kind. After all these millennium, were is the ongoing evidence that we are evolving. Our only evolving is following after the lies in media and colleges etc. Look around, where is the knowledge that we are glorious children of a powerful and glorious God who loves us and wants to give us a garden paradise lifestyle instead of our glorified slavery that we call employment. The HOLY SPIRIT would show us money cannot buy security and abundance.
Atheism is very reasonable
"Too many atheists have been college trained by people with an agenda to destroy our faith and degrade our society"
Look out, your persecution complex is showing. Bet you think educated 'elitism' is 'destroying' this country. Deep down, you probably believe that:
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
but I don't know if you'll get the reference. Are you proposing an alternative to "our glorified slavery that we call employment"? The hippies tried communes in the 60s. It didn't work.
Prayer changes things
That is right the foul billboards are gone. God bless
Atheists fled in terror with no one pursuing. Atheists went belly up on nonexistent threats.
Look it's a circle jerk. Between the triune of trolls.
just wait – there'll be more – a veritable Shiva of sock puppets.
Speaking from experience or wishful thinking?
I don't doubt it.
Awww how cute. One of the heads has turned to me regurgitated another repost. Too bad the troll can't actually find any worth in life, now that would be a nice trick.
In order to believe there is no God you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
Sorry, that doesn't sound logical at all.
Perhaps it is logical to you.
Do you know what logic is
Your post = logic fail.
"In order to believe there is no tooth fairy, you must believe there is one."
Sorry, but no.
The concept of belief and disbelief are but two sides of one coin – and you can only perceive one side at a time – meaning you believe or disbelieve. Your believing does not make God real to disbelievers and my disbelief does not make God unreal to you.
You said, "In order to believe there is no God you must be believe there is One. This is only logical."
In order to believe there is no Tooth Fairy you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
In order to believe there is no Santa Claus you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
In order to believe there is no Abominable Snowman you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
In order to believe there is no Pink Unicorn you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
In order to believe there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster Snowman you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
In order to believe there is no Loch Ness Monster you must be believe there is One. This is only logical.
So it stands to reason that you still believe in the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, the Abominable Snowman, Pink unicorns, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Loch Ness Monster and every imaginary being ever conceived.
I feel the need to comment on two related statements I found here...
Seethrough said..."Atheism is a terrible religion.".....and Hawk replied...."Atheism is a religion like not collecting stamps is a hobby. i.e. – it isn't one."....
Hmnnn......The problem I see with either of these statements is that they are both avoiding properly addressing the actual "issue"...
OK,...yeah,...Seethrough made an incorrect statement, obviously,...and I'm betting he did so to enrage any Atheist who read it, since most Atheists get upset when the activities they use to "get their message out" are compared to those used by Theists; when folks use phrases that paint a picture of Atheists as if they were like religious zealots...
But Hawk is ignoring the point Seethrough is actually "trying" to make.... What he's trying to say is that by doing something like these billboards, the Atheists who put them up are "fighting fire with fire" in ways that are just as annoying (to him) and "in your face" as the proselytizing methods used by many Theists... These methods seek to "shame" others for doing/thinking something different than they do by casting Theists' activities in a silly light, sometimes by vitriolic name-calling, and by portraying others as stupid or harmful for not thinking as they do...
Perhaps Atheists do this with an "if it's good for the goose then it's good for the gander" att;tude, to see if Theists "like how that feels",...(after all, those kinds of behaviors ARE incredibly annoying and off-putting, no matter who is engaging in them, which should be a BIG hint to Theists to knock that cr@p off!!!) but that kind of "t;t for tat" att;tude merely makes Atheists look like "as big of jerks as" the Theists, to most general bystanders...
And for Hawk to respond, saying "Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby", makes it seem like we should believe that Atheism is nothing more than the "absence of a belief in a god",....INSTEAD of the "active movement" that it is...(i.e. one that actively seeks to grow its ranks, seeks to spread its message, seeks to denigrate alternative ways of thinking,...etc.).... It seems to me that Hawk's statement would be more correct if it was worded "Atheism is a religion like NOT collecting stamps is a hobby,...IF the activity of NOT-collecting-stamps-as-a-hobby included trying to make others feel stupid and ashamed for wanting to collect stamps."
Atheism, as I have seen it often portrayed by those who host television and radio shows about it, puts up signs and billboards, hosts websites and live talks, and engages in attempting to convince others as to why their way is the "right way" of thinking (while simultaneously reveling at opportunities to tell Theists why they think their theological beliefs are silly and foolish)... Atheism, as an "active movement" as opposed to a personal ideology, seems to engage in many of the EXACT same types of egregious public behaviors as those they seem to discourage... IF they did not do these things, then I'd be willing to accept that they are merely the "absence of belief in the divine/supernatural",...that they represent nothing more than the "lack of religion"...
But they don't,...they instead often seem to represent a group that, though they don't see themselves as a duck, they often "come off" like a duck, because they sometimes look like one, and quack like one...(with the exception of the whole "big dude in the sky" thing...)... I have HEARD Atheists repeat, personally, the popular snarky-but-true sound byte (practically a mantra) that they really don't understand why Christians have a problem with them since "Atheists are just like Christians, they just believe in one less god than the Christians do"... And unfortunately,...that is OFTEN the case.... They DO often act just like modern Christians, up to and including a sometimes similar, "holier than thou"-like att;tude...
Not pretty to look at...
Really though. It is sad that a book written long ago so thoroughly controls our day to day lives. It is extremely frustrating. Maybe being aggressive about it is wrong. But its frightening that some people would happily plunge us back into the dark ages.
What is it about those ancient fathers of religion that you think they got wrong concerning the heart of man? Granted they didn't have printing presses or diodes or internal combustion engines but they had wisdom and insight that mere technological advancement has not been able to replicate, much less replace. To deny their wisdom simple because it is ancient doesn't seem very logical to me.
There is a peaceful solution, By taking the I don't know, maybe there is a god maybe not. Then we leave each other alone.
Carlos: The same thing can be accomplished by acknowledging god is personal, and one person's god is not relevant to anyone else. Everyone would have their own. No texts, no churches, no evangelists, no preachers.....
I agree. In reality no one knows. But people have a knack for believing in fairy tales regardless. For me its not a belief in god that is confusing. Its organized religion and the dogmas that come with it.
That only works if people don't attempt to push their beliefs, one way or the other, on those around them... Unfortunately, those that believe that their god wants abortion to be abolished attempts to pass laws to make that happen that affect everyone else... They believe their god doesn;t like contraception, so they try to pass laws that affect everyone else... They believe that marriage should only happen by their personal religious standards,...so they try to pass laws that affect everyone else.... They believe their god has told them there's only one way the universe was made,...so they try to pass laws that inflict that view as part of the secular curriculum.... Etc. Etc....
Lamb, perhaps you are on the wrong board. It sounds to me as if your issues are political
How can anyone take the Athiest seriously or even respect them. They call Christians haters yet it's not Christians putting up billboards to critisize Athiests. Everyone has the freedom of religion in this country. Athieisim not even a religion so why does itfall into that category? Why do they even feel that they need to attack others beliefs? Just shut up and believe in nothing and leave the believers to do what they choose to believe in.
Wow, Kelly, where to start?
Regarding the billboards, have you never seen a religious billboard that warns non-believers with hell?
Secondly, when the religious stop trying to codify their belief system into our secular law, they will see a huge decrease in atheists fighting back.
Also, Kelly, atheism may not be a religion, but atheists DO have freedom of speech
Exactly what have Christians codified into law that bothers you personally?
Here's a doozy of a Christian billboard:
"Attention: Lunatic Atheists and their Lawyers
Anti-God is Anti-American
Anti-American is Treason
Traitors Lead to Civil War
Rev. E.F. Briggs, P.O. Box 9066, Monongah, WV 26554"
And a host of others (from both sides):
You say: "yet it's not Christians putting up billboards to critisize Athiests"
Someone who believes nothing made everything
A scientific impossibility!
From your friend, Kirk Cameron.
I hope you are willing to stand corrected here.
fred: it bothers me that christians seek to deny people civil rights (marriage IS a civil right, according to the supreme court).
it bothers me that christians are attempting to get intelligent design taught in public schools.
if @A Frayed Not's link is off-putting, just put 'christian billboard' into Google images. You'll see many of the same ones like:
"Why Do Atheists Hate America?
It bothers me that school books intentionally teach that Christianity is simply a religion just like Islam etc. The translation is that all gods are simply made up. This is an atheist teaching and far from the truth. It bothers me that when school books mention the Church they bring up all the nasty man made add ons to the truth instead of telling the truth.
Evolution and all the other sciences cannot and do not answer the question of origin of life. School books should state the truth instead of inferring that science knows and no god necessary.
Traditional marriage is between a man and a woman period. If you want some non- traditional marriage Christians have no problem with congress giving out whatever certificate the State wants to put out.
The real issue with gay marriage is the weak kneed politicians are afraid to take on the real issue. The real issue is that our laws were written with a 70 year old foundation based upon Judeo Christian traditional family model. In short the little women stayed home with the kids and Father was the bread winner. Congress needs to trash all marriage benefits period if you really want equal rights.
"Evolution and all the other sciences cannot and do not answer the question of origin of life."
That is not their responsibility.
"School books should state the truth instead of inferring that science knows and no god necessary."
"School books" imply. You infer.
What is the alternative to schools teaching that all religions are the same? To say one is objjectily correct? Would that not violate the 1st amendment?
Fred: By what authority do you claim to possess "the truth"?
As far as marriage goes, I want the government to get the hell out of it. But, to grant staights a right that they do not grant gays strikes me as a vjiolation of the 14th amendment
The government has the position of protecting its citizens. This includes all sorts of necessary laws. Gay marriage is not a right just because straight marriage was traditionally granted a man and women. Polygamy is not a right just because gay marriage is granted in some states. As I said the Judeo Christian reason for traditional marriage no longer exists and needs to be scrapped in total. A new unity license can be granted between two people that wish to consolidate holdings and community license granted for unity including more than two people.
“By what authority do you claim to possess "the truth"?”
=>Pilate asked Jesus what is truth and he was looking at Christ yet could not see the truth but he did proclaim I find no fault with this man and posted above the cross "Jesus King of the Jews". I have looked at what we have regarding Christ and I find no fault in anything Jesus did or said. I have yet to find anyone that finds fault in Christ who said “I am the way the truth and the light”. Until such a time the smallest thing can be proven contrary to truth there is no other.
Hurrah for fred, who shall be henceforth known as "King of Useless Tangents".
"A new unity license can be granted between two people that wish to consolidate holdings and community license granted for unity including more than two people."
That sounds fine. Just get the government to stop issuing "marriage" licenses altogether and everything is great.
"Gay marriage is not a right just because straight marriage was traditionally granted a man and women"
Marriage is a civil right. – Supreme Court (Loving v. Virginia, 1967)
fred: dance around it all you want. you have not answered the question
I do not remember any of the school books I hear about on here. I never remember hearing about creationism in school and I went to school in Kansas (of course that was a long time ago). I never remember any school book saying that all religions were made up and no gods were necessary either. Maybe these were just in classes I never took or something.
"Christianity is simply a religion just like Islam "
Ummm, yes? So is Roman/Greek/Norse paganism. So is Zoroastrianism and Hinduism.. Most would say so is Buddhism and Taoism.
How can you know that you have the monopoly on truth instead of all the others. Your perception forms your definition of reality.
Why did God not appear to pre-Colombian Americans or African tribes or Mongolians?
Based on what we know about prior civilizations they all worshiped something greater than themselves. Neanderthal had practices that most theorize as being worship related. Even your friend Jefferson had respect for the Creator and Supreme Judge of the World.
Why would you suggest God did not make himself known as the groups you mentioned all had forms of spirit worship? Perhaps you are asking why Christ did not appear to all people and I will address that regarding your other religions.
Don't forget you still haven't answered my question on
OK, I'll restate. Stipulating that the pan-dimensional Yaweh/Jesus/pervasive spirt being is "God" and Jesus is God incarnate, why did Jesus not show himself to all peoples of the earth*?
* Particularly given that the Christian tradition says that unless you believe in the Christian tradition, you will burn in the eternal lake of fire.
Surely he wants all people to be with him in paradise, not just the ones exposed to Western traditions?
Unless you subscribe that Jesus, Buddha and Lao Tsu are all the same. But somehow I don't think you do.
Regarding Loving v. Virginia, 388
Take note that the court in 1967 was referring to the Judeo Christian traditional family model where marriage was the foundation of family. You forget that in 1967 it was bad news to have a baby out of wedlock and society looked down on divorce in those days. The traditional family unit was the core and basic civil right. Here is the wording: “Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival....”
The second violation was that the interracial marriage ban was blatant racial discrimination: “The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Const-itution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.”
And where in the Constitution does it lay out that marriage is only between a man and a woman? Appealing to "tradition" is useless for law.
You said: "The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination."
Yes, that 'equal protection' stuff is dangerous.
nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Equal does mean equal for everyone and the first amendment supercedes any religious impediment. Marriage equality should be a const'tutional right, even with a cursory reading of the 14th amendment, which is why so many are so keen to implement 'defence of (traditional) marriage' laws.
The laws in this country are riddled with God like it or not. The consti-tution of the U.S. attempted to avoid this pitfall of man. The case at hand was in Virginia where the trial judge ruled :“Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.”
This trial judge was wrong from a biblical standpoint but man has been twisting religion for all time. Do not forget this is Virginia in 1967 not San Francisco in 2012
The laws that give unequal treatment to John and Jack were not set up for John and Jack. John and Jack are not ent-itled to benefits that were intended for the little mother of 10 who had no means of support 70 years ago. When you give John and Jack extra social security and health care benefits you are now creating even greater unequal treatment over single people everywhere.
ANOTHER USELESS AND IRRELEVANT TANGENT! Can you ever just answer the fucking question? I've asked you this at least 4 times now, and never an answer! I'll tell you why you don't give me a straight fucking answer, it's because IT'S NOT IN THERE. You're wrong and know it, and just want to impose your religious bigoted bullshit on the country so you can feel like a more self-righteous pompous ass about it!
Grow the fuck up fred and at least be honest that nowhere in the constitution does it define marriage as only between a man and woman.
You had your direct reply in my opening sentence; “The laws in this country are riddled with God like it or not. The consti-tution of the U.S. attempted to avoid this pitfall of man.
I think what I said is very clear and you are just attempting to pick a fight just like when you lost the debate where God is good.
If you need it restated the laws of this country (like marriage laws in various states and the consti-tutions of these states) have reference to God and marriage etc. The U.S. const-itution does not refer to marriage or God with the exception of restricting state sponsorship of religion. I gave you a reference of a trial judge that used a wrong biblical interpretation to rule in a case where the law itself was based on reference to God because you always want references.
Stipulating that the pan-dimensional Yaweh/Jesus/pervasive spirt being is "God" and Jesus is God incarnate, why did Jesus not show himself to all peoples of the earth*?
“why did Jesus not show himself to all peoples of the earth”
=>every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. In that day there will be an accounting and those written in the Lambs Book of Life will find eternal life in Christ.
This tells me Jesus will show himself to all. With the exception of a few thousand that actually saw Jesus in the flesh the rest of us are all in the same boat. Even those who saw Jesus in flesh (Pilate, Nicodemus etc) could not see “Christ” until after Christ rose from the dead. Jesus was not what the Sanhedrin were expecting and even the apostles could not recognize Christ as God while alive. If you saw someone walking on water you would not think it was Christ as even non believers are looking for some preconceived notion of God rather than God who is.
In short I don’t know if anyone other than His mother and the criminal on the cross recognized Jesus as Christ while he was alive.
=>God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are of a different substance than flesh or other matter. Jesus the man was flesh and very visible but Christ was not. God and or Christ can only be seen in the power of the Holy Spirit. The power and presence of the Holy Spirit was in the beginning with God. God was revealed to any people or peoples that would accept it. People still put their twist on God as even Moses worshiped a very harsh God that your buddy Jefferson saw as in conflict with the God Saul of Tarsus worshiped in the New Testament.
quoting that 'every knee will bow'* and asserting that no one recognized Christ's divinity in person, doesn't address the notion that God allowed Islam to emerge as the belief for a major part of the world or beliefs like Buddhism for a great many others if he is the one true object of faith, arguably because Jesus did not appear in those places.
We observe that missionary proselytizing leads to hatred, conflict and war. Conversion of the reluctant does not feel consistent with a message of love to me. The missionary message of 'join us and we'll give you food, clean water and a school for the kiddies and if don't you'll burn forever' hardly seems righteous either.
* Plus this feels more like North Korea than paradise to me.
“Surely he wants all people to be with him in paradise, not just the ones exposed to Western traditions”
=>correct “for it is my desire that all come to the glory of God”
=>I really like Jefferson’s take on how the priests piled all their nonsense on top of the truth so he just about tossed all of the New Testament and found the Old to be filled with the angry God of Moses. I like to go with the sure thing. In Luke 23:39-43 Jesus showed us how simple it was. The one criminal on his left (obviously a democrat….lol) mocked Jesus and demanded proof of Divinity while the other simply said “do you not fear God ,we deserve this Jesus is innocent …..Jesus remember me” to which Jesus replied tonight you will be with me in Paradise.
Note the base disposition of the two souls hanging next to Jesus seems key to who is or is not in the Lambs book of Life.
You know something fred? It just has to be said – you are simply an ignorant jack'ass.
You know something fred? It just has to be said – you are simply an ignorant jack'ass.
Wow, you really just don't fucking get it. You are so enamored with your bronze age book of immorality you just can't conceive of the FACT that it has no place in our laws. What do you think denying the right to marriage based on the biblical definition of it is? That's a direct violation of the first amendment, no matter if it's at the state level!
I've lost no debate against your dishonest bullshit fred, but at this point, you're just beyond reason. You don't care about dissenting opinion, or the nature of the constitution. Just remember, theocracy isn't going to be gauranteed in your flavor of religious oppression.
I asked a direct question, but as is your MO, you have not answered it at all.
“God allowed Islam to emerge”
=>back to Abraham as God always does what God says will be done. Abraham was to wait for a child but became impatient and made a little Ishmael with Hagar the servant. When the child of promise arrived (Isaac) God said I will bless both and they will be great nations until the end but the one will kick at the other. We see the battle between brothers going on and on yet both prospered. The descendents of Isaac (Israel) and Ishmael (Islam) continue to carry out the predestined plan. Hate and Pride the twin sins that block the light of God will bring about the final end of days. The battle ground is right where it always was on top of the Garden of Eden over a divided Jerusalem.
Jefferson's disregard for priestly interpretation is quite evident when he descibes them as:
“...those who live by mystery & charlatanerie, fearing you would render them useless by simplifying the Christian philosophy, the most sublime & benevolent, but most perverted system that ever shone on man,”
when corresponding with Joseph Priestley – the discoverer of Oxygen and a dissenting clergyman. The 'rational dissenters' opposed "established" churches, meaning no separation of church and state.
I fail to see how the story of Jesus' fellow crucifixion victims relates to God allowing the emergence of major alternative belief systems after his reputed resurrection if his is the one true faith.
"Back to Abraham"
Still doesn't describe the Buddha or Lao Tsu.
Thanks for telling me twice, reminds me of a story. If one person calls you a horses ass don't worry about it, if you are called it twice it is time to get concerned but if you hear it three times best to trun around and take a look..................
Thanks hawaii I just took a look and thanks to 20/20 hindsight I am outta here.
see you around
Sorry got to run (or according to Hawaii and Really-o…… trot back to the barn)
However I will say as to other competing faiths/spirits the Bible shows a consistent pattern of the “chosen ones” failure to follow resulting in only a remnant coming through while the vast majority become like Sodom and Gomorrah or are drawn away by other spirits. In particular the spirit of the anti Christ will grow until such a time as the remnant are scattered and hiding in caves (driven out of public square). In short expect the numbers of real faithful to decline and being replaced by the things of the World.
You really couldn't resist throwing out a last irrelevant tangent full of bullshit could you?
I think you're being a bit hard on him.
I have no objection to calling out people who blatently lie, but I don't see dishonesty in @fred like I see with others. He doesn't necessarily stay on topic but that's no crime.
I suspect he will avoid you if you keep yelling at him. It's your call. Cheers.
@I'm not a GOPer
Oh fred's dishonest all right. For months I've been trying to get him to actually answer questions, and every single time he goes on an irrelevant tangent, usually injected with bible nonsense. I've pointed this out many many times to him, in nice and harsh language, and he usually responds with non-assertions and another tangent.
Does the rest of this page display in italics for you as it does for me?
Yes, I'm not sure what that's about.
apparently I messed up the formatting. I think I forgot a closing italic tag. Look at my post to fred where I had a Jefferson quote about 10 posts above ...
Normally this gets 'fixed' with a new line, but not this time.
As Chad would say.
I think it's something with the site itself. I see all posts below a certain point as all italics.
only they weren't in italics before my Jefferson post ... ;)
I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV
“I fail to see how the story of Jesus' fellow crucifixion victims relates to God allowing the emergence of major alternative belief systems after his reputed resurrection if his is the one true faith.”
=>The story of the two criminals next to Christ addressed who gets to paradise. It was not stated that one was an atheist/scorned Sanhedrin/Pagan etc., rather he simply had a negative dark view of God. This man had a heart full of mockery and followed the way of crowd (world) joining in with the mob onto his very last breath. This man and those like him are what the Bible calls the way of the world or the broad path. On that path people have various religions, beliefs or non beliefs. It is not the various beliefs rather the soul of the individual that is exposed in our journey up to our last breath. Proclaimed “Christians” such as Hitler or atheists such as Stalin reflect their outward appearance whereas God made it clear it is the heart and soul of a man, the inner most that is of great importance.
The other criminal was not a Christian simply a kind soul that was aware of his sin (I deserve to be here you do not) and asked Jesus to remember him (pray for him). Jesus replied today you will be with me in paradise. This criminal also was very different from the crowd and the criminal next to him in his disposition. The statement “do you not fear God” only reflects that he was humbled by higher authority or a creator and had respect for God (or god) but we are not told anything specific.
In short I am saying I am saying it is your heart att-itude that accepts or rejects Paradise. It is your heart att-itude that is or is not filled with pride and the way of the world.
=>God allows other beliefs to grow for various reasons. I explained Islam earlier but the issue there is what kind of a soul desires that which their faith professes? The Hindu have little problem walking over starving children in the streets as if they do not exist yet bring milk to a rat. Buddhism ends in nirvana where man is being freed from greed, hate and delusion. When a Christian is born again and in Christ there is freedom from greed, hate and delusion. This is certainly part of what Christ modeled for us and the one criminal certainly did not exhibit greed, hate or delusion and is in paradise today. This can be contrasted with a Muslim terrorist that expects to land in the lap of several virgins or Muhammad that included virgin boys in his paradise. A good person cannot be made to worship Satin. In short Jesus said seek and you will find and while Hitler found the Bible Stalin found Marx yet we do not know where their eternal soul finds rest.
The Bible is clear that God puts a calling on people and regardless of where you are born or what belief is prevalent each person responds to that call. You have had or will have the opportunity to accept or reject the calling of God. Your current belief or non belief is irrelevant as it the disposition of soul when looking at Christ.
Atheism is only another fundamentalist point of view. I wish to clarify one point. I do claim to be agnostic, defined as a belief that some things can not be known. Being agnostic does not preclude my having a spiritual life, in fact being agnostic allows me to practice my own faith, faith is not knowing, it is something more powerful. Faith will carry me where knowledge can not. I do not go to church. I do not have any idea what God is or is not, nor do I care so much, I suppose I will find out soon enough. Just as I have a physical self, a mental self, an emotional self, I also have a spiritual self. I nurture this spiritual self so that I never lose sight of this amazing mystery that is life. The Atheist questions God, he wants proof. demanding that God reveal himself, "Show me the Sun coming up at night",he says. Does the Sun not come up out of the night every morning? And still you see no miracles. Could it be that those who have no spiritual life are blind, even jaded to the miracles all around them ? How sad. So you see, I find "Not knowing" or even needing to know, rich. I believe it is by design that there is no god walking among us, correcting our every move like puppets. I believe not knowing allows me to exercise free will, to choose to create my own relationship with Life. To claim agnosticism is to live as a seeker, "Seek and you shall find" the verb is seek. I believe we are not here to find but to seek. Seeking requires an open mind. Therefore I am not threatened by your spiritual belief. I do not require that you ascribe to what I believe. Agnosticism is the road to peaceful coexistence. Imagine the Agnostic puts up a billboard it would read : I JUST DON'T KNOW. Peace By the way,. In a debate You know you have lost the argument when you resorts to personal attacks.
CARLOS, I would respect your billboard. Thank you for your post.
How do you figure that Carlos?
Do you know what the meaning of atheist is?
How can NOT believing in gods be fundamentalist?
So NOT collecting stamps is just as fundalmentalist as collecting them?
We, atheists, don't believe in god. Period.
We believe in what is provable by facts and direct observations.
@CARLOS posted the same commentary yesterday, where I responded that atheists cannot, by definition be fundamentalists, having no doctrine to be fundamental about. He ignored the response and pasted exactly the same comment here today.
I can only assume that @CARLOS aspires to be a tract-o-matic paster like @reality.
With regards to the question: Is there a God or Gods ?
Answer 1. Yes I believe there is a God .
Answer 2. No, I do not believe there is a God.
Answer 3. Maybe maybe not.
Fundamentalist : adheres to a set beliefs.
Christian: Adheres to a st belief: There is a god. There is a heaven. There is a hell and so on.
Atheist Adheres to the set belief: there is no god. there is no heaven. there is no hell and so on.
There is plenty of rigid intolerance on both sides of this debate to support the definition of fundamentalist.
Yes I have re-posted my message.
Carlos: Atheism is non belief in a god, not a belief in no god
From the looks of things, there are more troll on this blog than atheists and christians combined. Or maybe just one or two really enthusiastic trolls...
Speaking from experience or wishful thinking?
Truth is never ever trolling
Oh, pull the other one, troll.
you may well be correct there!
I think it's interesting that despite all the complaining by religionists about atheists on the 'belief blog' from a cursory look at this topic, most of the opening posts (not the replies) are by people taking a vigorously anti-atheist position.
I wonder what are they so het up about?
All up in arms over the point of view of a 4% minority that might be as big as 10% if you include those who aren't ready to openly admit it.
Someone just made a joke on Buddhism below. It made me wonder "What if Gautum Buddha had been born in the Middle East?" –
I thinkhe would have been imprisoned by the Church. Your thoughts?
The Buddha walks up to a hot dog vendor and says..."Make me one with everything."
Atheists are getting desperate. Seems that way for all the vocal minorities.
Atheists are just letting their voices be heard over the blah, blah, blah of the pious
Desperate was centuries ago. Now the atheists are only making their point and the religious are getting desperate.
Only for the those interested in a religious update:
1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
“New Torah For Modern Minds
Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
2 b., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
3. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.
4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."
The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.
5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"
Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.
Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.
Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!
A short form:
Putting the kibosh/”google” on religion to include Mormonism:
• There was probably no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• There was probably no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "
ALL REALITY POSTS = TOTAL BULL SH IT
THE INSANITY OF JESUS:
. JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
Prayer changes things .
The love of money is the practice of atheism.
sure thing there, sparky
The joy of killing is the practice of atheism.
Yes that is why that over 90% of the U.S. prison population is atheist....no wait, my bad, over 90% of the prison population is christian less than 2% is atheist.
That is because
1. there are not that many atheists around less than 1% of the population
2. people of faith are more likely to get parole and atheists lie like rugs so an atheist is a "christian" when they hit the cell block. there are no atheists in fox holes or cells
3.the mass murders are atheists in control of a country and America is one nation under God that will never allow an atheist to rule
4. any atheist criminal will throw anyone else under the bus rather than face the consequences of their actions
Creating and spreading lies is the practice of atheism.
Lying and murder are atheist character traits.
It's prayer troll, please don't feed it.
you missed your target ass wipe
Apparently the love of lying is the practice of christians. Don't they have a commandment against that?
I have trouble telling you trolls apart. You should get some new material.
Falsely confessing faith in Christ is the highest practice of atheism.
Atheists don't pass a collection plate or demand 10% ti/thes from other atheists.
Lying about Christ is the very meaning of blasphemy.
tbt and 2357 are inbred mother-mounting punks
2357: atheists profess a love of christ?
Buggering alter boys is the meaning of xtianity.
If you profess unbelief in Christ, you merely state the truth. You are closer to faith than you realize.
Only Christians train each other to profess a faith that they do not have , in order to get to the idols they love more than God. This is spiritual abortion, an abomination of desolation.
Your die and come back to life as something
If your cool you'll come back as a human
if you're a jerk your going to come back as a rat.
If you're totally awesome you'll cease to exist.
perhaps there is a universal consciousness...and mine is not any more valuable to the universe as that of the bug that got splattered on my windshield up north this weekend
The Buddha's philosophy still makes sense, the Bible's complete nonsense.
They should have done one for every religion.
So much for that "love they neighbor crap" that Jesus promoted. You sure gotta be proud of your followers, jewboy!
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