By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN) - Bill Nye's viral YouTube video pleading with parents not to teach their children to deny evolution has spawned an online life of its own, with prominent creationists hitting back against the popular TV host.
"Time is Nye for a Rebuttal," Ken Ham the CEO of Answers in Genesis writes on his website. Answers in Genesis is the Christian ministry behind the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky.
Nye's criticism of creationism went viral earlier this week, after being posted last Thursday.
"I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, that's completely inconsistent with the world we observe, that's fine. But don't make your kids do it," Nye says in his Big Think video, which has been viewed nearly 3 million times.
Ham writes that Nye is joining in with other evolutionists who say teaching children to deny evolution is a form of "child abuse." That idea comes in part from the atheist scientist Richard Dawkins, who in his book "The God Delusion" argues against exposing children to religion before they are old enough to fully understand it.
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"At AiG and the Creation Museum, we teach children and adults the truth concerning who they are in the Creator’s eyes — and where they came from," Ham writes. "We tell people that they do have purpose and meaning in life and that they were created for a purpose. "No, we are not just evolved animals as Nye believes; we are all made in the image of God."
Ham is the public face of a group that academics call Young Earth Creationists, though they prefer to be called Biblical Creationists. They believe in a literal interpretation of the creation account in the book of Genesis found in the Bible.
The Creation Museum also produced its own rebuttal video on YouTube that features two of their staff scientists, both Ph.Ds, David Menton and Georgia Purdom.
"[Nye] might be interested to know I also teach my young daughter about evolution and I know many Christian parents who do the same," Purdom says in the video. "Children should be exposed to both ideas concerning our past."
For the past 30 years, one popular method for Creationists to advance their cause has been to make an equal-time argument,with Creationism taught alongside evolution. In the late 1980s, some state legislatures passed bills that promoted the idea of a balanced treatment of both ideas in the classroom.
In 1987, the issue made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where a Louisiana "equal-time law" was struck down. The court ruled that teaching creationism in public school class rooms was a violation of the Establishment Cause in the Constitution, which is commonly referred to as the separation of church and state.
A key point between most scientists and many creationists is the timing for the origin of the world.
Your Take: 5 reactions to Bill Nye's creationism critique
Nye's argument falls in line with the vast majority of scientists, who date the age of the earth as 4.5 billion years old and the universe as 14.5 billion years old.
"The idea of deep time of billions of years explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your worldview becomes crazy, untenable, itself inconsistent," Nye says in his viral video.
Young Earth Creationists say the weeklong account of God creating the earth and everything in it represents six 24-hour periods (plus one day of rest) and date the age of the earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years.
"Yes we see fossils and distant stars, but the history on how they got there really depends on our worldview," Purdom says in the museum's rebuttal. "Do we start with man's ideas, who wasn't here during man's supposed billions of years of earth history or do we start with the Bible, the written revelation of the eyewitness account of the eternal God who created it all?"
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Polling from Gallup has shown for the past 30 years that between 40-46% of the survey respondents believe in Creationism, that God created humans and the world in the past 10,000 years.
The most recent poll showed belief in atheistic evolution was on the rise at 16%, nearly double what it had been in previous years. The poll also found 32% of respondents believe in evolution guided by God.
Creationists are the stupidest people on the planet. You're dragging our entire country down.
Thats over 65% of the entire population tou just called stupid.
My how intelligent you must feel. Almost god like.
Thats over 65% of the entire population you just called stupid.
My how intelligent you must feel. Almost god like.
150 years ago, there were plenty of Christians who thought slavery was perfectly OK. Nye was talking about evolution, not religion. It is perfectly reasonable to choose to follow your instinct and believe in God. It is not reasonable to deny the fact of evolution. There is no conflict whatsoever between Christianity and evolution. All Christians will accept (eventually) that evolution is the way God created man on earth. For anyone to push to the idea that you must choose between evolution and God, leads to only one result, rejection of God.
Really, just how much observable evolution have you noticed in your lifetime or in recorded time for that matter.
Nothing. Oh well!
93% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences – America's largest and most respected scientific society – are atheists.
Some creationists can delude themselves into thinking a video they made "hits back" at Bill Nye, but their decision to shout their scientific ignorance from the rooftops really doesn't do much.
Your statistic is Just B.S.
Any attempt to claim knowledge of the actions of a god are irrelevant until verifiable evidence is presented that proves that a god exists. The burden of proof inherent in the claim of a gods existence has not been satisfied. Please provide verifiable evidence that a god exists, once existence is established, verifiable evidence can then be presented which supports the claim that the universe was created by that specific god.
Think of it this way, it's similar to someone making a claim that all the trees that you see knocked down in a forest were pushed over by Bigfoot.
Please provide the verifiable evidence that a god exists before making any other claims as to its abilities, actions or desires.
Those are your rules but if God exists we are subject to his rules not yours. When you see God perhaps you can argue with him why he never revealed himself to disprove your theories.
I'm convinced this country is made up of 93 percent stupid people. That's why this county is having economical problems. Stupid people don't want to be accountable to anyone and develop theories to justify their stupidity. If you don't believe me, look at the personal problems you and your family have because God isn't in your life. There is proof of God – his creation is proof. You have to be an idiot to see a complicated world interact with itself. There is no proof for pure evolution other than stupid people saying it is so – again, not wanting to be accountable or are too proud of themself to believe or serve God.
I think religious folks wash their hands of accountability, shrugging it off to the will of god. We are, each of us, accountable for our own actions in THIS world. We do not need the threat of violence from a "loving god" to make us show acts of kindness. Do you feel the need to be threatened into kindness?
@only: "gods creation" you have absolutely ZERO proof to your assertation. it's merely your own opinion due to your parents teaching you their faith in their god.
science is the only proof of why we are here, no magic needed.
whether you know it or not you believe in magic (god took six days to create the heavens and the earth) and you believe in aliens ;god isn't from earth thus it is an E.T. and being such as modern terms are your god is an alien.
I rest my case – stupid people can't see what's in front of them.
science only, I suspect you never got past high school level science classes, if you made it that far. You are attempting to prove something for which you have no proof and disprove something (evolution) for which there is an abundance of evidence. And it infuriates you that nobody with a brain is buying your claptrap.
Science only ?:
marihuana ? magic mushrooms ? Had a brick falling on you head ? Got your air cut off for more than 3 minutes leading to brain damage ?.....or just being a troll ?.........What is it ??
the devil put those fossils in the rocks to fool us...
Another example of the advantage of being an atheist!
No evidence has been presented that a devil exists either.
hahha which devil
Me(the one who rebelled)
Nergal(the one who ran against god to rule)
samael(the one who lied)
because it wasn't me
Nergal wouldn't care
and Christians pray Samael
sit back and relax let me tell you a story of what i done,.. pull out your bible kiddos.
The devil went down to Virginia and Ze saw a man on his knees in prayer.
oh Lord help me fix the problems in this nation to day
(The devil jumped out of a stump and this is what he said)
The problem is not of the nation but of the God of which you pray, for he condones such acts that you find to dismay
Who are you,
For give me were are my manors, some call me the Devil others call me Lucifer, but you can call me Sam
I am Abraham but my friends call me Abe.
(Sam) ahh yes I remember such a name a long time ago. From my younger days,..
Let me get to the point I come here to free your soul.
Don’t you mean steal,
Now why would I still something that only has value in you,…Tell me the problems that you face this day.
(Abe) you see in my nation people are treated as a commodity, they are abused malnutrition and treated unfairly.
You mean slavery
Yes, but I feel like you already knew, you said early that my god condones these things
Why yes your god puts value on ever life born, 5 peaces for men and only 3 for woman
He tells slaves to obey because their master works for him, and even tells you how to treat them if the don’t.
But what can I do if even God approves, I know this to be evil I just know not what to do.
Well you’re on the right track if you know it is wrong, you can be sure that I agree to.
But you are evil.–
Says a god who condones slavery,.. Good and evil is relative, it’s a matter of point of view
Then what can I do.
Think for your self, and put a plan into motion to free those in servitude. That is all you can do.
But you are the Devil a liar, how can I trust what you say?
I have not come here to tell you to trust in my words only trust in your own self to do what is right. Why else did I give Eve the apple?
But if I go against god I will be damned.
Ask your self are they worth the price you must pay.
Others lives are worth my sacrifice, But this will cause war.
No change is with out price blood must be spelt, for freedom to sound, even the last man I talked to; Thomas knew this
It feels like a heavy burden to bear
Doing what is right always is, but you must be strong and you must carry on.
Then you have your answer. And I will be on my way
…Wait! Are you not going to help me?
Only humans can help humans, if I were to intervene it would not be freedom but tyranny. Trust in your self to do what is rights make plans and build towers to reach the heavens. My job is to just inspire..
The curtain closes on this little seen as the boy grows into his destiny; a nation divided, bathed in blood. A people are freed but only to struggle to win the hearts of those have bound. As the man named Abe must pay the final price, for he has set free those who were bound but becomes a tyrant by his own actions, liberty must be paid with blood from rebels and tyrants.
What is next for the devil, for he head to a land of bitter snow, to free the hand of those who toil,
If Obama is such a good Christian as he says, why doesn't he speak out against Nye and condemn him?
Because he knows Nye is correct and that creationism is not science, nor is it a matter of fact. He, unlike you, has the intelligence to recognize that having a belief in a god does not mean believing in creationism.
Because most good Christians (and the Church) believe in evolution.
@evangelical: he's a politician. They understand as a part of their job description that, whatever their religion or lack thereof, they must lie to win office. This shouldn't surprise any sentient being on the planet.
I am a creationist and believe in evolution. Take notice that I am spelling that with a lower case "e." Evolutionists like Dawkins believe that life just came to be out of thin air, molecules collecting on a crystal to form life.... Now that doesn't seem far fetched either. Show me one case where evolution has led to include more DNA or genetic coding rather than the loss of it and I will become an atheist.
@small e: I'm glad you're asking questions. It shows that you want to be logical. I think what you're really asking about is a DNA precursor instead of "how evolution leads to more DNA". Learn about how RNA is now considered a less complex molecule that could answer the question about how genetics evolved into DNA.
@ end religion
I would say the biggest reason I am not an atheist and do not believe in creationistic evolution is because life had to start at some point. With that part of evolution not being proven scientifically through observation I cannot believe that we evolved from lower life forms. However I do believe that are changes in people but through loss of data and not through added data (when it comes to genetic information).
If creationists could offer rock-solid proof other than simply reading words from a book that has been re-written many times by many anonymous authors and which offers no solid proof...I might consider their argument. However, they simply point to it and say that is proof enough. If that is their sole answer, why do we even teach Science, Biology and all the other sciences? If it conflicts with the bible, why bother?
A co-editor should have caught the apostrophe error in the opening line:
CNN) – Bill Nye's viral YouTube video pleading with parents not to teach their children to deny evolution has spawned an online life of it's own, with prominent creationists hitting back against the popular TV host.
It would be nice if the author of the article could at least get his facts straight. He says:
"Nye's argument falls in line with the vast majority of scientists, who date the age of the earth and the universe as 4.5 billion years old."
The earth is not as old as the universe. Wikepedia is saying 14.6 billion years today. (The numbers vary as new data is gathered and interpreted, but I haven't seen a number less that 12 billion for a long time.) Except for those who say it's 6000. :-)
Uhhh. I think you're missing the point of this discussion.
so when u look at the mile deep Grand Canyon you truely believe it eroded in 6000 years ?
Do you know the science behind isotope carbon dating ?
Do u even know what an isotope is ?
Most creationists never took a college physics or chemistry coure and really should not be commenting on something that they have no clue about....real numbnuts
12 billion- 14 billion -16 billion- 4 billion- Give me a break and prove it . A lot can happen in the billion years error of your judgement of time and evolution.
People like Nye are going to burn in hell, not so much for their insane belief in evolution, but for leading people astray.
Ya gotta love it when a Christian scorns you with the admonition that you will "go to hell" .
Out of all the silly superst.itious beliefs of the Christians, I think the myth of hell is my favorite. Think it through. I don't have to kill, I don't have to steal, hell, I don't even have to litter. All I have to do is have a reasonable, honest and rational disbelief in the Christian god and he will inflict a grotesque penalty upon me an infinite times worse than the death penalty. And he loves me.
Let's subject this "cherished Christian doctrine" to the probing light of say.......fifth grade mathematics.
Approximately one hundred and ten thousand million (110,000,000,000) people have lived on Earth. Given all those who have, over the centuries, rejected the Christian god, or who have otherwise committed mortal sins, there must be literally thousands of millions of people burning for all eternity in the cosmic oven of hell set up by their all-loving god. Some must have been burning for thousands of years by now.
About 100,000 people die every day. There must be a constant stream of thousands of forlorn souls every day into the one way pit of hell their “all-merciful” god set up and maintains.
But, far, far worse than sheer overwhelming numbers is the extent of the punishment. There is no way out, no parole, no time off for good behavior. You don’t just burn, you burn for all eternity. Billions of people and thousands of daily new arrivals burning for all eternity!
No criminal justice system in the history of the Human race, even those established by the most despotic of tyrants, comes close to matching the unfathomable barbarity of their “infinitely benevolent” god.
Hitler murdered six million Jews in his concentration camps, but compared to the Judeo-Christian god, Hitler was a bleeding-hearted wimp. A goose-stepping girlie-man. Their “all-caring” god not only burns billions more than Hitler, Pol Pot and all other dictators and tyrants added up, he keeps doing so to them for all eternity! I would not wish a bad sunburn on a person simply because they have a different religion to me, let alone fry them for all eternity.
It is also odd that their all-loving god is also all-knowing and knows which souls will go to hell before they do. He even knows it before they are born, and yet he still creates them. He is worse than a psychopathic teenager than breeds litter after litter of kittens so he can slowly roast them in ovens.
That is the problem with using the same deity to be both the carrot and the stick. It gets really silly really quickly.
How they believe this utter garbage in the 21st century completely eludes me.
Creationists are like children refusing to see the truth.
OMG!! I never thought about it that way .. I'm a believer!! Hallafreekinluya!!! Thanks for saving me with your christian love!
Go Bill, Go! Finally, some smart people are actually unafraid to offend the ignorant.
Your willingness to believe in the make-believe is trumped only your abusive nature. Fortunately, there is no hell to burn in so your words mean nothing. You and your type are the ankle-biters to the truth. Truth is revealed through science that contributes to the expanding wealth of knowledge humans are acquiring.
Abusive nature? I'm just telling it like it is. I'm not abusing anyone.
You're making my head hurt with your stupidity, Evan. That's abuse, right there.
Why are creation believers so utterly ignorant of proven scientific theories. I suppose the creationists are so burdened with their inferiority complexes and paper thin view of the world around them that if they walk too far into the unknown, they will fall off the edge of the world. The statement of "you will burn in hell" unfortunately relates to the world that creationists already occupy!!
Hold on a minute Colin. Most Christians don't believe this. Don't be a bigot and throw most Christians, who are intelligent and sane, in the same mix with Creationists. Most Christians do NOT believe in creationism (nor do the two largest Christian churches: the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox).
Robert Chalupa, please explain how a Christian can be not a creationist.
Fear not my child.... as your imaginary friend will cause me no harm...... for the promise of hell scares me as much as my bottle of pepsi telling me that it is going to drown me for choosing coke....
Boris, you appear to be unaware that many Christians accept evolutionary theory. How can this be news to anybody?
Well, Evangelical, since we don't believe in this hocus pocus, we have no fear of your hell.
You probably can't understand that, but living with the knowledge that no supernatural power can and will interfere with your life or afterlife is a very satisfying feeling.
Living in fear of a cruel God (and the bible provides a lot of insight into his cruelties) must be terrible, because you might feel his wrath regardless of being guilty or not guilty of a sin. He doesn't seem to have clear criteria on who is getting beaten up.
So just enjoy as long as you can...lol
When you mix government and religion, it's religion that suffers, not government. When you force religion into schools, it's the schools that will decide which religion is taught. Can you be sure it will be yours? Even christians can't agree on what is christian.
religion was pushed on me as a child yet i was smart enough to know a fairy tale when i was being told one. science cannot be disputed. religion was created to guide and control the masses before science explained what was once inexpiable. way to go bill nye you speak the truth lets hope people listen.
Science is disputed all the time. That is why theories change. Maybe you do not understand how science works.
Loser, you appear to be the one who doesn't understand how science OR music 'work'. Science continues to question its own discoveries and conclusions. It does not purport to 'prove' something but to show evidence for it.
Get a clue.
You are a typical closed minded fool my friend.
Wavejump. Tell me why everything rotates in a clockwise manner.
This is probably the only advanced country on earth who has people with thinking of stone age. Creationamism is nothing more than a faith and it should be kept inside religion. It is offensive that people of other faith which has no place for this crap has to take it. Creationism does not belong to classroom.
The lie of evolution should be thrown out it is not true and never will be another fool you are.
Poor Ken. You never made it through high school, did you?
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use." – Galileo Galilei
But creationists do feel obliged to believe that and they feel that the rest of us should as well.
Ken – "The lie of evolution should be thrown out it is not true and never will be another fool you are."
EX EVANGELICAL FORTUNE COOKIE COMPANY WRITER ALERT!
@Ken: you must have gone through a Creationist high school, where instead of "evolving" through each grade you were simply handed The Diploma that had been "created" for you by an intelligence you cannot comprehend. I assume for you high school was created in 4 days, not 4 years.
Why are you bashing the person and not discussing the argument? I thought different points of view were meant to be discussed and reasoned. Not met with personal attacks.
@loser: you're right. i apologize. Insanity makes me weak and I responded while my defenses were down. I should rather have just ignored it.
What an incoherant resposne. Is that all they got? Hummingbird parts flying together and those eyewitness accounts in the bible from those folks watching all that creatin'.
Delusional True Believers
Faith is believing something nobody in their right mind would believe – Archie Bunker
God didn't make man, man made God (Nietzsche).
I guess that's pretty much the quint essence of it.
Gotta love how the atheists and evolutionists are trying to redefine the word "theory" in order to make it seem like evolution is fact when it is but a hypothetical.
Yeah. Right. Because those scientists are all about misuse of terminology. Ignoramus.
You have to love how stupid people use a 2,000 year old book written by homeless people as fact instead of years and years of research by much more intelligent people.
I'll take a scientific "theory" any day over myth and folklore.
You really never do get any smarter, do you, Evan? Just fat, dumb and happy as a clam. About as bright, too.
No one has "changed" the definition, you half-wit. You're just too fvcking dumb to realize it.
even if you call it a theory it still makes more sense than the way the earth was created in the bible.
nobody calls evolution a theory except creationists.
you mean like the theory of graity? or do you not believe in that either. I'm a christian but to deny evolution is NUTS
LOl your right
No conspiracy here @Evangelical. Just a lack of education. The earliest recorded use of this definition is 1610. You can use google if you want to learn more about words and definitions. Warning: Reading and learning may lead to an expanded world view which may make you a pariah in religious circles.
Evangelical, your comment is BS. Evolution is not a hypothesis but a theory. And theories have different probabilities of being true, depending on how much evidence is available to support the theory. In the case of evolution and even abiogenesis there is a LOT of evidence and rejecting it is the same as the YECs rejecting all the fossils and other evidence that shows that the earth is much older than what they want to believe.
The difference between a believer and a science oriented person is that a believer doesn't care about evidence or proof and rarely can be persuaded to look at other views while science oriented people look at evidence and weight the likelihood of something being true or false based on the supporting evidence. This also means, science oriented people can change their views according to new evidence and proof.
The Hypothesis is whta you think a Theory is, and a Teory is a FACT! Gravity is a THEORY. Pythagoras has a THEORY. Evolution is a THEORY. They are all FACTS because they are observable, provable, and TRUE. Creationism can meet none of the tests of a proven fact. It is not observable, provable, and it is in conflict with its own pseudo-facts. One of you claims the solar system was created in in 6- 24 hour days? How do you measure time without a SUN? How long is an hour without a planet Earth ? Is GOD on Earth time before he created Earth? Can GOD create a rock too big for him to lift? If the 1st commandment demands worship to only one GOD, why do you pray to Jesus anf the Holy Spirit? Too many inconsistencies to make sense. FAITH is belief in something that has no basis in FACT!
the pagan point of view;
Christians your book theory is utterly ridicules, and human existed before "Yahweh" was even a thought IE your god didn't do it
Atheist, your to is but a theory all thought more credible it is still just a theory mankind is 10000000^20000000 years to soon to know the "answer" we have people homeless and empty houses in our society and we cant figure those problems out, its arrogant to come to a definitive conclusion yet
my personal belief is Gaia did it she gave birth to herself (on the day she died) and and the universe was created. how it began before Gaia...?????frankly my theory is more sound then all of yours, because you cant get something out of nothing, and it denotes a cycle, the universe is all about cycles, its simple expansion and contraction no matter how many time you multiply you can make 0 to 1, same thing with divide cant make 1 to 0. and addition is proof of a god
the safest answer is; I don't know,..
oh i forgot the pagan point of view is think for your self
If God rested on the seventh day, it can only be because He was tired from all that creating. Resting serves no purpose other than to recover (albeit in many ways) from being tired. Then a god who did not get tired would be a more perfect god. But God is perfect, so he must not have been tired. The Bible says in no uncertain terms that He rested, though rest is not only unnecessary, but meaningless to a perfect God. The Bible clearly assigns the human attribute of tiredness to God in error. The Bible is clearly not an authentic description of God or creation. The Bible is clearly not completely true. And if the Bible is not completely true, then there is no basis for believing it at all.
Don't confuse them with logic!
/clap clap clap
I am gonna be honest this is terrible logic. People rest all the time without being tired. Lets take music for example there are rests in music but they are not because the music is tired. Resting doesn't mean you are tired it means you are resting. Maybe you should use some critical thinking with your "logic".
Interesting straw man. Hope that's not your whole reason for denying the existence of God...
Why Would A God Need
to Rest on the Seventh Day?
Music HAS rests-it doesn't rest. Rests in music are the silences, and the musical term "rest" doesn't mean at all the same thing as it means in other uses.
I think you may have missed the point of the analogy. You do not have to be tired to rest. I could set a cup on a table and then say the cup is resting on the table. In music the rest is a spot of silence or a stop in the music. Saying you have to be tired to rest is like saying i have to be hungry to eat. When I am hungry I do eat and when I am tired I do rest but I also eat when I am not hungry and rest when I am not tired.
Stupid, the word "rest" means something different when applied to an inanimate object than it does when applied....never mind. Why bother explaining something to a nitwit? Go on with your hobby of determining how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Or how many pinheads can blather on a blog.
So are you saying is that the word rest could mean many things?
Not that you would read the bible but God rested to set precedence for people. Work 6 days and rest on the 7th – much in same way people need to sleep. When the law was presented to the Israelites through Moses – they were to keep the Sabbath (saturday a day of rest and worship and reflection)
You do not have to be tired to rest. The original person said "If God rested on the seventh day, it can only be because He was tired from all that creating". So his conclusion is that you only rest because you are tired. This is a false conclusion. There are many reason to rest. When something stops moving it has come to a rest. When someone stops working they are at rest. They are no longer working. This does not mean they are tired it just means they are no longer working.
It cannot be said that music "rests". It does not. It can be said that one rests one's head, meaning that one places it on a pillow. Neither one of those definitions would apply to the action of "resting".
However, your point, such as it is, is moot. You're attempting to argue about a work of fiction as if it were fact.
God rested on the 7th day because he want to set an example for us to follow. The 7th day was set aside as a holy day to remember the Creator and his creation. The fact that society has forgotten the purpose of this day is why we have developed such man-centered, unsupportable theories as evolution. Evolution is hubris, for it teaches that everything evolves to a better, stronger, more adapted version – and then ever onward and upward to the pinnacle that is man. It flies in the face of natural law that shows us instead that everything decays, from the orbit of planets, to the rust of cars, to the Parkinson's of my dad. Evolutionary theory is no different than the "earth is the center of the universe" theories that were discredited centuries ago.
I rest on the 7th day, because I know my Creator gave it to me on which to ponder the great gift of the universe He gave to mankind and to step off the world for 24 hours to spend time with my loving wife and son. Turning off the TV and Internet, going to church to spend time with fellow worshipers, and spending time not chasing the almighty dollar one day out of seven has kept my marriage 25 years strong, my son an involved part of a loving family and my social contacts real and not media contrived.
My worldview is much healthier to my long-term sanity than belief in a brief existence, between two nothingness's, struggling in a survival of the fittest contest to the detriment of my fellow man. That is a world without hope and love, just as the great deceiver would have us believe we live in...
Do you not understand what an analogy is? why is my point moot? I am pointing out his argument is based on a false premise. But since I have given evidence that his argument is false now my point is moot? If it is so moot then why are attempting to defend his point? Logic and critical thinking should always go hand in hand. Maybe you could point out how his argument is true?
Loser, you made a statement about music that was incorrect. I attempted to disabuse of the idea that music "rests". You refused to accept my correction. You're still wrong and your analogy fails because the word "rest" in music does not and never has meant the same thing it means when used as a verb.
You can argue about your sky fairy all you want and whether he was tired. I don't believe there is any such thing, so your attempts to argue about his weariness of lack thereof are moot as far as I'm concerned.
If you want to continue to argue about the meaning of the word "rest" in music, by all means, do so. You're wrong about it, whether you believe it or not.
I was not arguing about whether or not music rests. Because there are rests (points where the music stops) in music. I was arguing that the point that God had be tired to rest is false. I was not arguing about music I was arguing about what the person had said. You are the one arguing about music. My analogy may been incorrect but the point of my analogy stands. To rest does not mean you are tired.
Please tell me how I am wrong apart from saying that I am wrong. show me how I am wrong when I say that "you do not have to be tired to rest".
@gadfly: there is no god, therefore none could have rested. Aside from that, while I'm sure religious nuts have their many arguments otherwise, a "day" from man's point of view (since man did write "the book") must have been sunlight hours on Earth. Since, at the beginning of the universe's creation there was no sun nor earth required to calculate what a "day" would have been, there couldn't have been a "7th day" anyway.
I understand what you are saying but I have to disagree. The biblical account say that sun and stars were created on the 4th day. So there could have been a seventh day according to the text. Also the first thing created was light. So there was light and dark and it was the first day and so on.
@loser: you can't fight crazy. You either use reason and logic or you make stuff up. There's simply no way to argue against anyone who will just make stuff up such as planets and stars all coming into existence fully formed in one "day" - in which the notion of a day doesn't even exist yet.
Rested for God meant he ceased the work of creating- not resting as in your human perception of rest.
Where does the wind go, how big is it , what color is it, why does it rest and where does it go when it is resting?
Does the wind really exist?
They sound like some primative fantasy movie, where ancient peoples worship the sun god, and kill a pig to get a good harvest. Then you realize, it was said by some adult... yesterday.
It is frightening and embarrassing at the same time.
"Do we start with man's ideas, who wasn't here during man's supposed billions of years of earth history or do we start with the Bible, the written revelation of the eyewitness account of the eternal God who created it all?"
An ironic statement as the idea of an eternal god who created it all, ALSO comes from man's ideas.
Yes, Ken, it's wrong to pretend that the Bible contains eye-witness accounts of creation.
@Ken, Believe it or not, accept it or not, everything you believe about religion goes back to a man. You can try to pretend that that man was magically endowed with powers from god to right a perfect book, but you only believe that because a man told you it's true. The only power here is what you give to these men in your belief that they were magical.
So if every-bodies ideas only come from man and are proved using only the ideas that man comes up with how can we be so sure we are right? How can any system that measures success or failure right or wrong based upon its own ideas be correct? Does there not have to be something outside of itself to determine a standard or set of rules?
Yeah, now you're getting it. Enter the scientific method. By applying a series of verifiable experiments and also trying to disprove ideas, we arrive at more accurate understandings of the universe than we had before.
Those who use science as their guide understand the flawed nature of man. Therefore we try to make our story fit the facts. Religion does the opposite. It tries to make the facts fit the story.
I am not so sure. What I was saying is that we as humans are a system. We as humans are creating our own measuring stick to determine what is true or not true. So we as a system are creating our own way of determining what our system is.
I have to disagree with your last statement about facts and fitting the story. When I see things in the stories that are in it such as the earth being round (Isaiah 40:22) I see it as facts fitting the story. I see science agreeing with the bible. Like with anything it is the starting point that matters. I see the world from a biblical point of view and thus I see science as proving the existence of God. If you start with atheism you see it from a different point of view. I think that is why there is so much debate in science about different ideas. I think it is a positive thing that we can discuss our points of view.
Jesus and this nonsense of creationism is simply part of the Judeo Christian MYTH! Those morons have no evidence! Just delusional fantasies!
Nye is right. It will eventually die since Christianity is no longer forced upon us like it was for 1,700 years!
With respect to evidence,
1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
I'm here. I don't believe in God. Therefor I must have evolved.
I think you're taking your world view on faith, too, my friend...
Joe – Understanding scientific principles does not require "belief" or "faith" (which, by the way, are synonymous) of any kind.
Joe, I missed the part where Neal said he believed in evolution because of his disbelief in god. Seems you made that up.
Joe ... was that supposed to be evidence, your counterpoint makes no sense and does nothing but support Neal's original post.
@Joe, in the absence of proof denying the existence of God is the only logical decision. This has nothing to do with faith but simply is common sense.
If somebody tells you there are pink unicorns jumping around in the woods, would you believe it ? If not, would that make you a "believer" of the non-existence of unicorns or would you just apply common sense ?
My point is your world view informs your assumptions and your evaluation of the evidence. You're assuming transitional forms without evidence because you need them. You're assuming micro evolution implies macro evolution because you need it too. Your assuming the universe has behaved exactly the same over its millions of years of existence because you need the time to support evolution of a single celled organism to a person.
None of us was there so you can come up with a theory, call it scientific because it lines up with the way you see your world, and line up behind it if you'd like but what you can't do is wave your hand and say my 'assumptions are correct, while yours are stupid because I don't agree with you.'.
Again, your world view informs opinion. If you don't recognize that, it's hard to have an intelligent discussion. It's all in where you choose to put your faith.
Joe, you claim that faith in the supernatural is a better method to explain reality than using the scientific method ?
Hard to imagine you really believe that. Even many religious people would strongly disagree with your post.
Joe, there is no micro and macro evolution, they are outdated terms that don't reflect current biological knowledge.
We know there are transitional species because the fossil record is filled with them- all species are transitional btw.
You are making assumptions about how people form beliefs about evolution based on bad information and your own imagination. Don't tell someone why they believe in evolution- ask them if you want to know, and take it from there.
Harald, I have no problem at all with the scientific method when it is applied appropriately. A large part of the scientific method is observation. With respect to origins, we see what we want to see based on our world view.
Joe, observation is just one element of the scientific method. For example, you might be familiar with carbon dating. Behind this method stand rock solid physical/chemical facts.
Still, YECs (I don't know if you are one) simply deny results of carbon dating because their belief tells them otherwise.
The same is true with evolution. Their is a huge amount of evidence that shows us how different species evolved over time. Today, with our modern technologies we can pick apart the genetic material of organisms and even can see how they are related to each other gene by gene. These are fascinating tools that we have available. If you want to live in the intellectual stone age be my guest, but don't expect to convince too many people with your views.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.