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Catholic Church '200 years behind,' Cardinal says before death
Italian cardinal Carlo Maria Martini's body was lying in state at the cathedral in Milan, Italy, on September 1, 2012.
September 1st, 2012
02:56 PM ET

Catholic Church '200 years behind,' Cardinal says before death

From Livia Borghese, for CNN

ROME (CNN) - In an interview published a day after his death, a prominent progressive Catholic cardinal left the best summary of his contribution to debates within the Church.

"The Church has remained 200 years behind the times. Why has it not been shaken up?" Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini said in an interview published in Saturday's Corriere dell Sera newspaper. "Are we scared? Fear instead of courage? However, faith is the fundamental to the church."

He died Friday at age 85, the Archdiocese of Milan announced.

Martini suffered from Parkinson's disease and died at his residence in Milan, where he had lived since 2008, when the disease forced him to leave Jerusalem, the archdiocese said.

A public viewing was scheduled for Saturday at Milan Cathedral and the funeral for Monday.

Pope Benedict XVI sent his condolences to the archbishop of Milan, Cardinal Angelo Scola, remembering his "beloved brother that served with generosity the Gospels and the Church."

The Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, called Martini "an expert and passionate in the Holy Scripture."

Martini was born in 1927 and entered the Society of Jesus at age 17.

Pope John Paul II appointed him archbishop of Milan in 1979 and proclaimed him cardinal in 1983. In 2002, at the retirement age of 75, Martini moved to Jerusalem to dedicate himself to Biblical studies, according to his official Vatican biography.

Martini was known for his progressive position on some of the Church's most controversial issues, including priestly celibacy, the use of condoms, euthanasia and homosexuality.

Even after his retirement, Martini raised "subtle though crucial objections" to the Church's opposition to all cases of assisted fertility, distribution of condoms to AIDS victims, and so-called right-to-die cases, Time magazine reported in 2007.

He "politely challenged" the pope's strong condemnation of an Italian government proposal to legalize civil unions for homosexual partners and voiced support for the ordination of women as deacons, Time reported.

Italy's ANSA news agency said Martini was considered one of the more liberal high-ranking representatives of the Catholic Church.

Italian President Giorgio Napolitano remembered Martini's "innovative paths in the inter-religious dialogue," as well as the "enlightening and concrete suggestions" he received from the prelate in each of their many encounters, especially on social themes like immigration.

Martini was one of the "papabili," or papal contenders, at the 2005 Conclave that elected the current pope.

- shirleyhenrycnn

Filed under: Catholic Church • Uncategorized • Vatican

soundoff (261 Responses)
  1. Atheism another creation of...

    Your freemason owners, IE Albert Pike wrote a letter to an Italian mason, stating that they will release the atheists on this world. But who cares right? You guys like your fiat currencies and to be babysat by government. You are nothing more then a right brain blind monkies running around will no original thought, but influenced by many people that you have never even heard of.

    September 4, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • sam stone

      Release the atheists on the world?

      What an entertaining little imbecile

      September 5, 2012 at 8:55 am |
  2. Agnostic Atheism is Healthy for Kids and Grown-Ups Too!

    Let your kids be all that they can be. Just teach them that there are:

    1. Things we know that are unfounded and most likely political sales literature from the beginning of mankind (all religions); and
    2. Things that we don't know a damn thing about (god/deities).

    An agnostic approach regarding deities keeps us honest about what we don't know anything about, but also prevents unfounded junk from #2 above (religion) from dirtying up our rational thinking on the matter.

    So instead of praying to make-believe characters and trying to get others to follow the political garbage from long ago, just sit down, put on some good jazz, and collect you damn thoughts. My goodness.

    I am mama kindless and I approve this message.

    September 4, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
  3. wes

    I think he's at least 2000 years off

    September 4, 2012 at 5:33 am |
  4. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer really changes things .

    September 4, 2012 at 4:48 am |
    • hal 9000

      I'm sorry "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but you assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      September 4, 2012 at 8:52 am |
    • Richard Huge

      Thank you, "Atheism is not health..." for reminding me why I no longer camp with Christians. Your unkind words reflect the christ within you.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:00 am |
    • Wrenn_NYC

      Does it change diapers?

      September 5, 2012 at 10:39 am |
  5. Sarah

    To those who think that Catholics and other people of faith are stupid, misguided, and "behind the times", I have a burning question: Why on earth do you care? If you aren't sitting in our pews, why do you care whether the sermon comes from a woman or a man? If you don't believe in God anyway, why do you care if those of us who are Catholic choose not to use contraception? That is as nonsensical as it would be for me, a Catholic, to complain about the Jewish population suffering from a lack of pork- really, that makes no difference to me, so it would be puerile for me to even voice an opinion. And to those of you whose only attack is to wax eloquent with such advanced vocabulary as "christard"- let me remind you that the Big Bang Theory was originated by a Catholic priest (google Georges Lemaître), so perhaps "christards" aren't quite as unintelligent or frightened of scientific reasoning as you might believe. At any rate, do you really think that kind of language is going to win anyone over to your way of thinking?

    September 4, 2012 at 4:09 am |
    • Damocles

      Ah, see, you hit the nail on the head... you 'choose' to not use birth control and that's totally fine, have all the kids you want. What you can't decide is another woman's right to use or not use bc. That is there choice, not yours. Now the church can say something along the lines of 'we would PREFER our followers not use bc', but they don't have the right to take the choice away from people.

      I don't care what anyone says, no one knows what is going to lead them to, or away, from their deity so any priest, preacher, imam who claims to know for sure is naive at best and an outright liar at worst.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:17 am |
    • Damocles

      Coorection on my second line: there should be their

      September 4, 2012 at 4:19 am |
    • Damocles

      Oh for pete's sake. I give up trying to *correct* myself. 🙂

      September 4, 2012 at 4:20 am |
    • Sarah

      But again, why do you care if the woman sitting next to me wants to use contraception and still chooses to be Catholic? She has as much ability to leave the Church, does she not? We don't make people run a gauntlet to leave, tie them to the pews, or make them drink poisonous Kool-Aid in the desert. If it's her choice to keep being a part of a church that tells her she can't use contraception, why do you care? Don't you respect the choice she's making by continuing to identify as Catholic?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:36 am |
    • Damocles

      I care because of what you said in your second line: 'she has the right to leave the curch'. That is not respecting her choice to use bc. You (meaning the church) are giving her an 'either or' choice, she either does what they tell her or she can leave, no compromise allowed. Can she not love being a catholic and choose to not get pregnant at the same time?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:43 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      If you religious nut jobs kept your rule making within your cult, I wouldn't care but you have a penchant for making laws for everyone based on your delusions. Why do you care what others, not members of your cult, do?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:59 am |
    • Sarah

      To the modern American mind, the argument you made is perfectly logical. We're used to identifying with a political party even if we only agree with it slightly more than half of the time. We'll often send our kids to the best schools we can afford even if we disagree with the religious principles of that school- we can be open-minded, right? We'll order the steak even if we hate the sides that come with it. We are used to picking and choosing everything, to living and let live, to being absolutely individual. I think that's a good thing. In fact, I think that's what God intended, or we wouldn't have the free will to choose to follow him or not. The hypothetical woman we are discussing can certainly love part of what it means to be Catholic and choose to contracept, but she isn't loving the whole meaning of what it means to be Catholic. She's missing out on the opportunity to grow closer to the God she claims to love by surrendering everything, even her body, to her God's will. And again, this is her faith, her God- this hypothetical person *wants* to love her God, so doing everything she can to love her God doesn't sound crazy to her. But, likely, she hasn't been taught the reasons behind the Church's teaching and thinks that it's only because a bunch of old, celibate men want the world to have as many little Catholics as possible and keep women in the kitchen. She probably doesn't know that the reason is because the Catholic Church sees the union between a husband and wife as a sign of the way Christ loves his Church, and it only mirrors Christ on the Cross when it is a total gift to both your spouse and your God. That union is so important that it cannot be compromised by any interloper, be it a piece of latex or an extramarital lover. And really, no part of the theological argument really matters here- what matters is that our hypothetical woman is contradicting herself every time she prays the Nicene Creed during Mass- you see, that prayer isn't a mindless, repeated phrase, and it isn't really a prayer at all. It's more like the Pledge of Allegiance or an oath- it's the point of the Mass where you stand up and publicly pronounce that you believe the teachings of the Catholic Church- that's actually the whole point of the Credo. So, on the one hand to say that you believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church, and on the other to say that you actually don't think the Church is apostolic (that the leaders of the Church are successors to the apostles, and therefore able to pronounce the teachings of the faith with authority) is a contradiction that would never stand up to Socratic inquiry. More importantly, it is disingenuous to yourself. You deserve to live a life that is free of contradictions, to be wholly who you claim to be, and to freely choose to live out the beliefs you claimed when you publicly chose them. I cannot explain it better than that. I don't expect you to change your mind, but I would challenge you to ponder on what it truly means to be totally integrated- mind, body, and spirit- to live without any discrepancies who we say we are and who we really are. Is that something for which one ought to strive?

      September 4, 2012 at 5:53 am |
    • Simran

      "She's missing out on the opportunity to grow closer to the God she claims to love "

      Sarah, thanks for yet another Biblical lecture. Now let's get back to where you started – how do you know that the way you think God should be loved is the right way??? And how do you know that what this hypothetical woman choses to do is against the will of god? Isn't it only based on your version/ your interpretation of Bible? Maybe, for her, the interpretation is different.

      As far as I have seen on this blog, there are as many interpretations of Bible as there are people.

      So, who is the Catholic Church do decide what meaning this woman wants to draw from her holy text???

      September 4, 2012 at 6:06 am |
    • Sarah

      @ 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls: I assume you are referring to contraception (perhaps the Catholic Church's outcry over the HHS Mandate)? On this case, I can assure you the issue is not whether my neighbor wants contraception. The issue is whether I have to pay for it. Being against paying for someone else's contraception is not the same as saying that other people cannot use contraception. Surely that is a distinction you understand. I also don't want to pay for your computer, shoes, television, collection of DVDs or your Netflix subscription, but I'm certainly not against you having those things- it's your life, not mine. As to laws in general, what moral code do you think has a place in American legislation? Surely, there must be some moral code that governs us, or we would never be able to create a penal code because we would have no way to justly determine what actions merit punishment. The fact is, the moral codes of politicians and Americans in general *will* find their way into the political arena because without those codes we have no basis or reason for governance. If there is no "right" or "wrong" action, then there is no place for Health Care Reform, no place for the prosecution of child molesters. So, if a collective moral code created by the places our moral codes intersect enough to send someone to Washington is not a good basis, what is?

      September 4, 2012 at 6:16 am |
    • Sarah

      @ Simran- "how do you know that the way you think God should be loved is the right way??? And how do you know that what this hypothetical woman choses to do is against the will of god? Isn't it only based on your version/ your interpretation of Bible? Maybe, for her, the interpretation is different."

      I think that if you re-read my entire post, you'll find that my whole argument was not what she *should* believe, but rather that she is contradicting herself in what she professes to believe and what she actually believes. My argument was that if she is a Mass-going Catholic, she stands up and literally reads out a public statement claiming that she really and truly believes all that the Catholic Church teaches. When she gets married in the Catholic Church, she will specifically state then that she believes all that the Catholic Church teaches. Every Easter, she'll again specifically profess that she believes all that the Catholic Church teaches. Unless she is specifically not participating in these parts, absolutely and without ambiguity, claiming to believe what the Catholic Church teaches. The Catholic Church teaches that contraception is wrong. Ergo, it is a contradiction to state that you believe what the Catholic Church teaches while at the same time saying that actually, you don't. The problem is that our hypothetical person is claiming to believe two different and conflicting interpretations of God at the same time. It's like the child who tells her mother that she's sorry she got into the cookie jar and then tells her friend she really isn't sorry- the child did actually go through the action of saying sorry, so either she is lying to her mother or she is lying to her friend- she can't be both sorry and not sorry at the same time. The argument is not what our hypothetical woman *should believe*, the argument is *whether she should believe what she publicly states she believes*. I think the happiest person would be honest with herself and refuse to claim two conflicting beliefs as her own.

      September 4, 2012 at 6:44 am |
    • midwest rail

      Why do religious people wish to codify their beliefs using civil legislation ? Why should your religion's beliefs take precedence over another ?

      September 4, 2012 at 6:50 am |
    • Sarah

      @ Midwest Rail – Why do you those without religion always cry fowl when the voting majority creates a law or succeeds in striking down a law that does not please the majority? Civil legislation in a democratic government s going to reflect the intersections of the majority's morality. That is, if a majority of Americans feel that having school lunches is a good and moral thing to do they'll vote for people who will make it happen. If a majority of Americans feel that owning guns is immoral, they'll vote for restrictions on gun ownership. If morality is defined by belief in what is right and what is wrong, how do you remove the collective morality from governance while maintaining the rights to vote and to peaceably assemble? The reality is that the majority's morality is going to influence what laws we think are good and just and what laws are deemed as unjust. Since a majority of Americans are Judeo-Christian, it looks like they're legislating their religion when in reality they're simply choosing laws and legislators that seem good and just based on their understanding of what is good and just- every person does this, and religious people have the right to make decisions about what is good and just as much as an atheist does.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:07 am |
    • midwest rail

      If the line were drawn at school lunches, that would be fine. That was a wonderfully disingenuous example, you chose.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:13 am |
    • Colin

      Sarah, my objection to Catholics or any other religion passing legislation based on their religious views is that such laws bind all faiths and non-believers. For example, Christians may choose not to drink on a Sunday, but should not have the right to prevent atheists, Jews, or Hindus from doing so.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • sam stone

      Sarah: When the will of the majority violate others' civil rights, we have an issue.

      September 4, 2012 at 7:56 am |
    • Simran

      " When she gets married in the Catholic Church, she will specifically state then that she believes all that the Catholic Church teaches."

      So, if the Catholic church is misguided or holds a different opinion – Oh sorry, I shouldnot be saying Catholic church, but those who set the rules, the pastors (some of whom can't even control their own se.xual urges) – so if the leaders of the Church hold an opinion in which she begs to differ, as per what you say, she is no longer a Catholic! Pretty arrogant for man to make such a statement. So, basically you are saying that a person should either be obeying everything that the Catholic Church preaches or has no right to call him/herself a Catholic! Now where exactly is this set of rulebook of Catholic church? Do you guys also get a mutlibillion year affidavit signed by the person when they enter Catholic church??? (Refer scientology)

      Well, I did read your entire post. The missing something part I chose so that you can understand how in a split second, without knowing this person, you came to judge her. See you say – she is missing on the opportunity to be closer to god she claims to love???? How did you come to that conclusion dear? Maybe, she is closer to god than you are. Now, isn't it also Bible's teaching that one should not judge others? But you do. So, how are you any better than her? You contradict your own faith too.

      Wow, abortion = stealing cookies. Pretty absurd example, dont you think.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • Simran

      " striking down a law that does not please the majority"

      For your kind information Sarah, laws are not made to PLEASE THE MAJORITY!!! Please get over your high horse already.

      September 4, 2012 at 8:24 am |
    • Richard Huge

      We live in a pluralistic, democratic society Sarah. Its not the Monarchy of Christ the King. It's not the Monarchy of Roman Catholic Church. In fact, it's pretty clear that there is a lot of tension between a Monarchy and a Democracy. It is becoming more evident that Christians increasingly want the USA to BE A MONARCHY... where Christian doctrine reigns supreme.

      This Democracy has been here just over 200 years. I suggest you locate a country in Africa (much successful evangelism going on there) and move. Or you could study the Theocracy in Iran and see how that is working. They hold to much of what you and many other ultra orthodox Christians desire... no abortion, no birth control, tightly prescribed roles of men and women, a supreme leader who has more power than the courts or legislators ( a King of sorts). Check it out.

      But leave USA alone, because we are and always shall be a Democracy under the rule of Law with three branches of Government that offer checks and balances against the likes of you and your Christian Dominionist friends.

      September 4, 2012 at 10:13 am |
    • Wrenn_NYC

      You haven't taken your analogy far enough.

      Yes, you choose not to use birth control. But you also wish to impose that behavior on others who don't follow your religion.

      The correct (though still not quite accurate) analolgy would be –

      How would you feel if the Jews pushed laws banning the sale of pork? Force you to not be able to buy or eat it? If all businesses, including your own, had to shut down at dusk on Friday, and would not reopen until dusk on Saturday? Enforced by law?

      September 5, 2012 at 10:43 am |
  6. thecollegeadmissionsguru

    And this surprises whom?

    September 3, 2012 at 7:32 pm |
  7. moi

    Good for the cardinal for going against the grain. Unfortunately, this rigid establishment is going to self-destruct.

    September 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • MIGI62

      Gee you must have the inside track with God, Our Almighty Father on what is going to happen. As Pope Benedict has said if you don't like the church and its teachings....leave. For me, I will stand beside the bride of Christ until my dying breath!

      September 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Lee

      People like you have been saying that for 2000 years. Sorry, you'll be pushing up daisies and food for worms long before what you say ever happens. Who knows, they may even build a church over your body someday : ) I think it was a pope or cardinal who said, The church continues even with our best efforts to destroy it. We've never claimed to be perfect, that's what I like about being Catholic. We don't have secret beliefs, every knows what we believe and can chose to disagree. We don't hide our faults and get pius like some who memorize a few bible verses and think they are God himself. We are sinners. We have 2000 years of good and bad. The U.S. is just a little over 200 and has plenty of good and bad history too. Are you hoping for its demise as well?????? I don't pass judgement on anyone, because I know judgement is coming upon mysefl someday. Have a good one.

      September 4, 2012 at 2:10 am |
    • sam stone

      migi: it appears that you feel that you have insider information

      September 4, 2012 at 11:09 am |
  8. howart Dao

    I am sorry the Cardinal is wrong : the churd is 2000 years ( NOT 200) behind 😉

    September 3, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
  9. sn0wb0arder

    just 200 years? religion is dogmatic and change is seen as weakness.

    September 3, 2012 at 9:31 am |
    • Christian

      According to the gospel of Christ weakness is supposed to be a strength ... 🙂 🙂 🙂

      September 4, 2012 at 10:56 am |
  10. Reality

    Only for new members:

    Added details:

    The Apostles' Creed 2012: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    (prayer = a repeti-tive pet-ition)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
    and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    (references used are available upon request)

    September 3, 2012 at 8:03 am |
    • Christian

      I believed in God by faith and was well rewarded with evidence .... 🙂 the Holy Spirit was given to me according to the scriptures which cannot be denied ....
      So the Holy Spirit confirmed the gospel of Christ to me...
      This is the way it was done in the beginning ... and should always be done in this way...

      If every Christian had the Holy Spirit there would be a lot more peace and joy in the world.. 🙂 🙂

      September 4, 2012 at 11:00 am |
  11. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things
    Proven

    September 3, 2012 at 5:41 am |
    • sn0wb0arder

      and a pot of gold waits at the end of a rainbow.

      September 3, 2012 at 9:32 am |
    • hal 9000

      I'm sorry "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but you assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      September 3, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • moi

      don't feed the troll...

      September 3, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • not to worry

      @moi
      It is universally accepted that hal9000 will be ignored. Good heads up.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:42 am |
    • just wondering

      What kind of idiot opposes prayer?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:43 am |
    • Damocles

      @just

      I don't really oppose prayer, if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, then that's fine. Let's be reasonable though.... some people go way overboard on some of their claims of prayer. Would you be willing to live on just prayer for maybe... a month?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:48 am |
    • just wondering

      @dumocles
      It has been done and it is extremely rewarding.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:51 am |
    • Damocles

      @just

      Dumbocles would have been better since dumb is the correct spelling of dumb whereas dum is the incorrect spelling of dumb, but hey, maybe next time, yeah?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:57 am |
    • Christian

      Please pray that a lot more Christians receive the Holy Spirit ... 🙂
      They're dead without Him. 🙂 🙂 🙂

      September 4, 2012 at 11:02 am |
  12. Jason

    200 years behind what?

    September 3, 2012 at 12:40 am |
    • Advanced

      Behind Islam, I guess!

      September 3, 2012 at 1:02 am |
    • Christian

      behind the world 🙂 🙂
      is what I believe the gentleman was referring ..

      September 4, 2012 at 11:03 am |
  13. migi

    He was off by a thousand years!

    September 3, 2012 at 12:29 am |
  14. Mike Malone

    Hell, the Cardinal will have all of eternity to discuss it with satan.

    September 2, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
    • STEVE

      MIKE WHO GAVE YOU THE POWER TO JUDGE ONLY GOD HAS THIS POWER.

      September 3, 2012 at 12:20 am |
    • Churl

      I gave Mike the power. I have a D6 powerplant hooked up to a 200 Kw generator. You may call me God if you like.

      September 3, 2012 at 2:02 am |
    • rick

      mile apparently thinks he speaks for god. pompous, but not unusual

      September 3, 2012 at 7:11 am |
    • just wondering

      How do you have a discussion while you are all alone screaming for mercy in a lake of fire?

      September 4, 2012 at 4:52 am |
    • Anti-Troll

      Thee is no lake of fire. Amy deity who punishes for infinty for finite crimes is a petty arrogant son of a bitch who doesn't deserve to be praised.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:56 am |
    • sam stone

      Gee, Mikey....nothing like playing god, is there?

      September 4, 2012 at 9:42 am |
    • sam stone

      anti-troll: i think that anyone who uses the "lake of fire" threat is not worshipping god, rather they are cowering before god....basically they are snivelling sycophants

      September 4, 2012 at 9:44 am |
  15. Agnostic Atheism is Healthy for Kids and Grown-Ups Too!

    It's really best for all people including children to have an agnostic approach to god, and an atheistic approach to all religion. It keeps things simple for kids, and let's them be all that they can be. They just need to be taught that some things, like all religions, are just junk that was made up by salesmen and politicians long ago; and that other things, like god, we really don't know a damn thing about.

    Atheists have strong minds, and don't run and hide their misdeeds within their religion (and by doing so, disserving society).

    So instead of praying to make-believe people, get a good cup of tea and go on and sit down and collect your damn thoughts.
    My goodness.

    mama kindless

    September 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      Didn't we in last few decades throw God out of our schools and invite secular gurus to teach our young their version of morals and social skills?
      And we obviously see the results we've got , being witnessed every day in daily news and all around us. It is amazing that even after so much of disillusionment with the false prophets of secular humanism , so many are still clinging to its doctrines and their "high priests" as if they were the mouthpiece of God!

      September 2, 2012 at 10:05 pm |
    • STEVE

      I WOULD GIVE YOU 1 SEC. ON FRONT LINE OF WAR AND I FEEL YOU WILL BELIEVE IN GOD.

      September 3, 2012 at 12:23 am |
    • Jason

      That sounds just peachy. Look at all those strong minded atheists who were healthy for kids and grown ups too! Let's see there was Pol Pot, Josef Stalin, Mao, and let's not forget Uncle Adolf! Because without some made up creature to look to, you can be all that you can be which means that YOU get to decide what is truth and what isn't, what is healthy for kids and grown ups too and what isn't.

      If you decide that mass slaughter within the womb and without healthy for kids and grown ups too, then by golly use that strong atheist mind and make it happen. Don't let yourself be dissuaded by some pretend creature. The order in the universe is just an accident. The order in human events however has NO BOUNDS and is subject to YOUR WHIM, not any natural law.

      So just go forth, make stuff up if you have to with your capable atheist mind. And watch the quality of life for all kids and grown ups (those who survive the pogroms at least) become more and more healthy!!

      September 3, 2012 at 12:38 am |
    • save the world and slap some sense into a christard today!

      @Jason

      Pol Pot was Buddhist
      Hitler a Christian
      Stalin moved to and from Christianity throughout his life

      Many have tried in these boards to use the world's most ruthless communist rulers as examples of atheism and have failed. It doesn't make any sense to associate a particular religion or lack thereof to these few political individuals. What we do know is that entire religions throughout history have waged wars, conducted various inquisitions, and adopted various types of disenfranchisement "in the name of" their beliefs. And to atheists, those beliefs are unfounded, so obviously they are not going to look kindly to the harm that religion has done and continues to do today.

      September 3, 2012 at 1:02 am |
    • Advanced

      The only religious leader (who happens to be Buddhist, an atheistic religion) who seems to be the only religious leader always talking about world peace and harmony is the Dalai Lama.
      Peace takes more courage than war.

      September 3, 2012 at 1:06 am |
    • Advanced

      @Prism,
      Please elaborate on the results of throwing god out of schools, and then also prvide details of how you compare it with our so-called GLORIOUS AND RELIGIOUS PAST!

      September 3, 2012 at 1:18 am |
    • Jason

      hey "save the world..." now who is the one believing in fairy tales?

      September 3, 2012 at 2:44 am |
    • samstubbs

      Actually Pol Pot WAS emphatically atheist... he even used Buddhist monks as yet another scapegoat to gain power. He burned down Buddhist shrines and temples and purposefully starved many priests to death.

      Stalin didn't change "back and forth" he changed once... to the position of Atheism.

      Mao was also emphatically Atheist.

      However, I'm not blaming all atheists based on the actions of these men. I just thought you should get some facts straightened out. (Source: Asian Studies major, history minor)

      September 3, 2012 at 4:07 am |
    • Usman Sultan

      Agnostism or Athiesm is the WORST thing for kids. Kids need a solid grounding, solid rules. They will rebel against these or learn their own way when they turn 18, but for their early years they need the sureness of grounding. This "pro-athiestic" view is what leads to kids being rude, ill-mannered, anti-social etc. and not caring about their studies or other people.

      September 3, 2012 at 5:02 am |
    • sam stone

      prissy: if you don't teach children about god in church or at home, don't expect it the public schools to do it. it is not their job. now, go have your hissyfit.

      September 3, 2012 at 7:14 am |
    • mama kindless

      There's nothing wrong about having time is school dedicated to teaching moral lessons, but lessons that do not mention nor infer a particular religion. The best, of course, is for them to have proper issues of morality taught at home, and again, without any make-believe garbage.

      September 3, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      In the decade leading up to 1962, the people enjoyed wonderful, virtuous, Godly things like McCarthyism, race riots, insti.tutionalized se.xism, and rampant nuclear proliferation.
      The American Empire began to expand in earnest, invading The Phillipines, Albania, East Germany, Iran, Guatemala, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Indonesia, Guyana, Vietnam, Cambodia, Zaire, The Congo, and Brazil.
      Yes – it was a magical time when God ruled the United States and nothing evil happened.
      But at almost the same time prayer was removed from schools, the old Jim Crow laws were rescinded.
      Since we're conflating correlation with causation, isn't it just as likely that integration was the start of the "moral decay" of America?

      September 3, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • captain america

      We do not need some low end canadian telling US how we should or should not live. Look to your own country doc. Oh that's right no one there accepts your bull sh it, everyone one agrees you are a butt in ass hole. There's your sign

      September 4, 2012 at 4:48 am |
    • Anti-Troll

      Hey, "Private Parts" .. I mean "captain" America .. if you are going to type cuss words, do it properly you fucking shit-eating worthless piece of surviving afterbirth.

      September 4, 2012 at 5:01 am |
    • Damocles

      @capt

      What the hell is a 'butt in as-shole'?

      @anti

      I gotta learn to do that one day.

      September 4, 2012 at 5:04 am |
  16. Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer takes people away from actually working on real solutions to their problems.
    Prayer has been shown to have no discernible effect towards what was prayed for.
    Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just go to http://santorum.com to find out more.
    Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
    Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
    Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
    Prayer fucks up your knees and your neck and your back.
    Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
    Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
    Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
    Prayer makes you think doilies are exciting.
    Prayer makes you secretively flatulent and embarrassed about it.
    Prayer makes your kids avoid spending time with you.
    Prayer gives you knobbly knees.
    Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just google him to find out.
    Prayer dulls your senses.
    Prayer makes you post really stupid shit.
    Prayer makes you hoard cats.
    Prayer makes you smell like shitty kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
    Prayer wastes time.

    September 2, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Usman Sultan

      People need to pray. People need a religion - if they don't have it in what we know as religion they'll replace it with worship of the state (nazism, communism) or worship of the television or worship of consumerism. Humanity needs a religion of some kind, that's a fact - even if it is a religion based on constantly upgrading technology.

      September 3, 2012 at 5:04 am |
    • moi

      No, primitive, undeveloped, unintelligent man needs religion. All others question it and find alternative sources to fill the same need. Man created religion, but we are evolving out of it.... thank "god".

      September 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • wes

      better be careful what you say on cnn, they'll ban your IP and email address then start profiling you. happened to me

      September 4, 2012 at 5:35 am |
    • wes

      better be careful what you say on cnn, they'll ban your IP and email address then start profiling you. happened to me. had to tell them I would file a lawsuit against them if they kept it up. and within 3 days they released my account. anyway I like your comment, just becareful about using those words on the communist news website.

      September 4, 2012 at 5:38 am |
  17. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    September 2, 2012 at 8:18 pm |
    • Prayer is not healthy for children and other living things

      Prayer takes people away from actually working on real solutions to their problems.
      Prayer has been shown to have no discernible effect towards what was prayed for.
      Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just go to http://santorum.com to find out more.
      Prayer prevents you from getting badly needed exercise.
      Prayer makes you fat, pale, weak, and sedentary.
      Prayer wears out your clothes prematurely.
      Prayer contributes to global warming through excess CO2 emissions.
      Prayer fucks up your knees and your neck and your back.
      Prayer can cause heart attacks, especially among the elderly.
      Prayer reveals how stupid you are to the world.
      Prayer exposes your backside to pervert priests.
      Prayer makes you think doilies are exciting.
      Prayer makes you secretively flatulent and embarrassed about it.
      Prayer makes your kids avoid spending time with you.
      Prayer gives you knobbly knees.
      Prayer makes you frothy like Rick Santorum. Just google him to find out.
      Prayer dulls your senses.
      Prayer makes you hoard cats.
      Prayer makes you smell like shitty kitty litter and leads you on to harder drugs.
      Prayer wastes time.

      September 2, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • hal 9000

      I'm sorry "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but you assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to... by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
      ..

      September 2, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
  18. spockmonster

    it's time to abolish the mental disease known as religion. Save the future generations from the fear and ignorance that is christianity, islam, judaism and all the rest. amen

    September 2, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • Usman Sultan

      if it is a "mental disease" as you put it, replace it with what? Human beings need to believe in something - and the alternative to religion is communism, which killed more people in a shorter time than any religion.

      September 3, 2012 at 5:06 am |
    • nitl

      You are not alone I totally agree

      September 3, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
  19. PRISM 1234

    Yep, you're right when you say that satan's workers want to discredit Paul's writings. When Catholics deny the full, supreme authority of Scriptures, they have already denied them! That speaks volumes! But they're not the only ones. There is a move in protestant circles that's doing the same. This is the apostate church in the making!

    September 2, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • sam stone

      prissy: satan's workers? do you actually believe the drivel you type? what a maroon.

      September 3, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • Anti-Troll

      I deny your scrptures, and I deny the mere existence of your petty, shallow, arrogant deity. You are nothing but a sheep who needs to be guided to the Kool-Aid, and when it's given to you, you don't just drink it, you bathe in it. Get a life, and learn to think for yourself.

      September 4, 2012 at 5:49 am |
    • sam stone

      come on now, anti-troll, be fair. prissy is also a begging, snivelling sycophant who fear pi$$ing off his petty punk god.

      September 4, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
  20. Scissor Me Xerxes

    200 years behind? Sounds like they have lots of children to fvck.

    September 2, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • Jesus freaker

      lol

      September 2, 2012 at 6:05 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.