By Dan Merica, CNN
Washington (CNN) – In a stadium filled with 8,000 evangelical Christian women, one person near the stage stands out.
Sporting short salt-and-peppered hair, broad shoulders and a high-collared shirt, the man sits calmly as ballerinas flutter across the stage, women tell jokes about menopause and the event’s emcee announces that almost all the men’s rooms at the Verizon Center in downtown Washington have been converted to female restrooms for the night, provoking a round of applause.
For Kurt Warner, former quarterback for the St. Louis Rams and Arizona Cardinals and two-time National Football League MVP, this is about as far away from the testosterone-driven world of the gridiron as you can get.
Onstage is the reason Warner’s here: Brenda Warner, her angular face and close-cropped blonde hair radiating in professional lighting, telling the audience about God’s plan for her life.
For years, Brenda was known as Kurt’s uber-supportive wife – a woman whose unflinchingly defense and championing of her superstar husband sometimes made news in it its own right.
Today, two years into Kurt’s retirement, those roles are changing.
My Faith: What people talk about before they die
Brenda has become what some call "Christian famous" - a renowned evangelical speaker who tours the country with the likes of the 2012 Women of Faith tour, which will reach tens of thousands of Christian women with a message of hope and faith. As one of the tour’s headliners, Brenda will travel the country each weekend until November to tell her story – one of heartbreak, love and growth.
Through much of it, Kurt will be there with her, sitting in the audience as his wife does her thing before throngs of adoring fans.
“Brenda Warner is no longer Kurt Warner’s wife,” one awestruck woman says after listening to Brenda’s story at the Verizon Center. “Kurt Warner is now Brenda Warner’s husband.”
‘We need each other, we all have a story’
Brenda Warner’s story is a tear-jerker, whether or not you accept the God part.
When she was 18, she joined the Marine Corps, a job that took her from her hometown of Parkersburg, Iowa, to bases in Japan and in Virginia Beach, Virginia – where she would marry another Marine and give birth to a baby boy.
When Brenda begins to explain her life to the crowd in Washington, women applaud for the lines about joining the Marines and having baby Zachary.
Then the story takes a dark turn.
Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter
While working one day in Virginia Beach, Brenda got a phone call that changed her life. Her husband had dropped Zachary on his head, an accident that would leave their toddler legally blind and developmentally disabled. Speaking in Washington, Brenda recounts the scene at the hospital.
“Zachary had a seizure – they worked around him trying to stop it,” she says. “I did all that I knew to do – I called out, ‘Jesus, Jesus, let this be the last seizure.’”
A hush has fallen over the stadium. Women wipe tears from their cheeks; one has pulled her pink T-shirt over her eyes.
She and her husband struggled to make things work with Zachary, Brenda continues. She got pregnant again, she tells the audience, but when she was a month from her due date her husband told her he had feelings for another woman. “I got out of bed, I called home and said mama come get me,” she says. “He doesn't love me, after all that we have been through.”
Brenda became a registered nurse, largely to learn how to better cope with Zachary’s condition. To make ends meet, she stood in line for food stamps and moved out of her parent’s basement and into low-income housing.
Then, another bombshell.
One night in 1996, Brenda’s sister called to report that their mother and father, who had retired to a cabin in Arkansas, had been killed in a tornado. Their house had been wiped off the map.
“They were always my soft place to fall,” Brenda tells the crowd.
At this point, the woman with her head in her T-shirt is a sobbing headless body. But as quickly as she has just dropped the mood, Brenda builds it up by telling the women that God brought her through it all.
“I married that football player,” she says, gesturing toward Kurt. “He adopted my two and we have five more.” Tears are giving way to applause.
Kurt and Brenda Warner first met when Kurt was playing college football at University of Northern Iowa.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Near the end of the speech, Brenda brings Zachary out to say hello to the crowd.
“If you have ever felt like life has cheated you, stand up with me,” Brenda says. “If you have ever felt disappointed in life, stand with me. If you have ever received a call that changed your life forever, brought you to your knees and took your breath away, look around, we are all in this together, we need each other, we all have a story.”
Afterward, many women say they saw themselves in Brenda’s story.
“She is just a normal everyday mom raising a family just like everybody,” says Sena Hohman, her two daughters accompanying her to the event. “Hearing these stories, you find out she is just like me, with ups and downs in life, with peaks and valleys.
“To be able to see somebody has overcome” what she has, said Judy Gerlitz from Centerville, Virginia, “shows me that I can do it.”
Super Bowl champion, philanthropist
When she’s offstage, Brenda and Kurt often operate as a team in their faith-based work.
On the recent Friday morning before Brenda addresses the Women of Faith conference, the couple find themselves in a small, bland conference room in downtown Washington.
Kurt takes notes while Brenda’s eyes stay fixed on the architect who’s briefing them. The topic: plans for a multi-apartment home for developmentally disabled young adults that the Warners want to build in their hometown of Scottsdale, Arizona.
The project is inspired by Zachary, now a 23-year-old high school graduate.
“Zach has probably impacted more people than all of us combined because there is something unique and special and honest about these individuals that see it like it is and call it like they see it,” Kurt says.
Zachary lives in a group house in St. Louis. The Warners are modeling the group home they’re building in Arizona, called Treasure House, on the St. Louis Life concept for independent living for those with special needs.
At the meeting in Washington, Kurt is very much in control, with the architect and a consultant urge the Warners to use Kurt’s celebrity to help raise funds. “Leverage your history,” the consultant says, looking at Kurt and talking football.
Kurt’s story, like Brenda’s, includes some letdowns. After going unselected in the 1994 NFL draft as a quarterback out of University of Northern Iowa, Kurt became a Hy-Vee grocery store stock clerk to make money. While stocking shelves, he signed with the Iowa Barnstorms, an Arena Football League team in Des Moines, Iowa. With his big arm and accuracy, he became an AFL star.
After a short stint with NFL Europe, Kurt became the third -tring quarterback for the St. Louis Rams for the 1998 season. In 1999, after an injury to the Rams’ starting quarterback, he got his chance. Leading the Rams to a Super Bowl XXXIV victory, Kurt won both the league and Super Bowl MVP award that year.
Kurt Warner drops back to pass in Super Bowl XXXIV, a game his St. Louis Rams defeated the Tennessee Titans, 23-16.
Brenda was there through all of it, from AFL to NFL. She and Kurt met while Kurt was attending college in Cedar Falls, Iowa, at a country bar where she was taking line dancing classes. She worried he wouldn’t be able to handle the fact she was divorced with two kids.
When he showed up the morning after their first date and said he wanted to meet her kids, Brenda says, “I feel in love with him before he fell in love with me.”
When Kurt led the Rams to their 1999 Super Bowl victory, not only was Brenda there - she became part of the story.
Brenda was vocally defensive of her husband when he had a bad game, even calling into radio stations to criticize the Rams coaching staff. That zeal and her on-camera postgame kisses for the star quarterback had some fans calling her the Yoko Ono of football.
Throughout his 12-year NFL career, Kurt was known for both his skill and overt faith. “Well, first things first,” Warner told a reporter after his first Super Bowl victory. “I've got to thank my Lord and Savior up above — thank you, Jesus!”
The interview provided a name for Kurt’s foundation, First Things First, which is “dedicated to impacting lives by promoting Christian values, sharing experiences and providing opportunities.” The group raises money, taking advantage of Kurt’s NFL connections, and organizes events for ill and developmentally disabled children.
Today, Kurt spends much of his time on such work. It’s why he’s talking building schematics instead of defensive schemes.
“My retirement isn’t quite like what people think about with retirement,” Warner says. “I am very busy and have a lot of things that I am active in. It is not a complete 180 from being gone every day to being home every day.”
But talking about civil engineering in a drab hotel conference room is a long way from the National Football League. The common thread: Brenda and their religious faith.
Bonded by faith
Kurt says he had wanted Brenda to pursue her speaking career for years. But while he rose to superstardom, Brenda was a stay-at-home mom.
Now that Kurt is home more, he says, Brenda is free to pursue her dreams.
“What we have realized is there are seasons in all of our lives and dreams take sacrifices but they become family things,” Kurt says. “Dreams are family dreams.”
Brenda and Kurt now work closely together planning the couple's newest philanthropic venture – Treasure House.
Armed with her story and the star power that comes with her last name, Brenda has carved her own path on the Christian speaking circuit. Asked about the Warners at the Verizon Center’s Women of Faith event, only a few of the attendees know about her famous husband.
The tour is marketed to evangelical women to “celebrate what matters,” and also features appearances by female evangelical authors and media personalities. The tour is like a conference, with sessions on different challenges women face.
Kurt and Brenda see their changing professional seasons as part of God’s plan for them. “I don’t think that is the way that I would have written it, but I see that God has worked it out for good,” Brenda says. “I can see how he has been faithful. I can say now I am grateful.”
Telling her story has become second nature for Brenda. She has become expert in pitching God as the cure to heartache.
“He called me by name, he loves me and he won’t leave me,” Brenda repeats in her speech. “God was true to his word that he wouldn’t leave me.”
And neither, it seems, will Kurt.
More mentally ill "christians" who do not follow even one of the teachings of Jesus, these are the white, rich, christians.
When she was really down and out, she was on food stamps and living in government-assisted housing. Without that, she might not have made it through. But she, and probably all the other 8000 evangelical women at this event, are strong supporters of the GOP–the party that thinks programs like food stamps and government-assisted housing are socialism and should be eliminated. Yes, you can give them an living example of how it helped someone, and they will still vote to get rid of it.
You hit that head on. Most of my relatives in the rural Midwest are on some sort of welfare voting Republican. It is pathetic.
I wonder where she'd be without that NFL salary to help them along?
I have no problem with people wanting to express their religious beliefs within their own group.
I have a lot of problem when those same people try to force their beliefs on others who do not believe the same as they do.
When GOD called you by name, spoke with you, etc., what did his voice sound like?
Was it low and bass?
Please tell us just what did his voice sound like?
is your question directed?
GOD: Right! Arthur, King of the Britons - your Knights of the Round Table shall have a task to make them an example in these dark times.
ARTHUR: Good idea, oh Lord!
GOD: 'Course it's a good idea! Behold! Arthur, this is the Holy Grail. Look well, Arthur, for it is your sacred task to seek this Grail. That is your purpose, Arthur - the Quest for the Holy Grail.
ARTHUR: A blessing!
LANCELOT: A blessing from the Lord!
GALAHAD: God be praised!
Nice couple. Have you ever noticed that most female God-haters are disgusting troglodyte she-men that no human male would ever touch because they are DISGUSTING? Meanwhile, have you ever observed that most male God-haters are pathetic effeminates that no real woman would tolerate because they are repugnant LOSERS? Most of you people don't believe in God because you couldn't get a prom date then, and because you are the dregs of society now. LOL
Yeah I noticed that. Ugly people suck
no, maybe you 'noticed' such things because of your bias and only want to see what you want to see.
Your post epitomizes what most people have come to expect from the raging religious right. Name calling, pigeon holing, lots of put-downs and hate-speech. Where's the Christ and Christianity in that... on a Sunday morning, no less. Maybe you should shut down your computer and spend some time with your pastor in church this morning or at least meditate on how Jesus would respond to you if he read all that. I don't think he'd be very pleased.
The great con artists are usually very good looking. The long pointy noses give this couple away though.
And your religion and your God are a cancer just like your name. Go fu*ck yourself!
How Christian of you to say that.
Yeah... I hate smokers...
The imaginary kid in the clouds never talked to me... must be because I'm NOT delusional and have an unlisted number...
Wow...so it looks like the cool kids do win out in the end...and all us losers are...well....losers.
I guess Jesus and the Apostles just roamed around Judea like a bunch of Chippendale dancers...
I find Repub and fundie women to very reptilian looking.
need I say more??
Ever read the New Testament? It's a little story about how a lowly son of a carpenter rose to become a mover and shaker in Roman society. Chicks dug him, he was a lifelong bachelor, and was the star of his own reality TV show, which resulted in the tragic loss of his life. But he was beautiful, and man, could he dance. Knew his wine and cheese, as well. A real man.
I now have a good reason to throw away ALL logic and believe in god.Thank you,for you are truly blessed with the grace of the lord.
But you're unable to respond to either post properly... what does that make you, representative of the trolls?
A few questions should help shed light on the relationship between religion and rational thought.
The completely absurd theory that all 7,000,000,000 human beings are simultaneously being supervised 24 hours a day, every day of their lives by an immortal, invisible being for the purposes of reward or punishment in the “afterlife” comes from the field of:
(c) Economics; or
You are about 70% likely to believe the entire Universe began less than 10,000 years ago with only one man, one woman and a talking snake if you are a:
(c) NASA astronomer; or
I have convinced myself that gay $ex is a choice and not genetic, but then have no explanation as to why only gay people have ho.mo$exual urges. I am
(a) A gifted psychologist
(b) A well respected geneticist
(c) A highly educated sociologist
(d) A Christian with the remarkable ability to ignore inconvenient facts.
I honestly believe that, when I think silent thoughts like, “please god, help me pass my exam tomorrow,” some invisible being is reading my mind and will intervene and alter what would otherwise be the course of history in small ways to help me. I am
(a) a delusional schizophrenic;
(b) a naïve child, too young to know that that is silly
(c) an ignorant farmer from Sudan who never had the benefit of even a fifth grade education; or
(d) your average Christian
Millions and millions of Catholics believe that bread and wine turns into the actual flesh and blood of a dead Jew from 2,000 years ago because:
(a) there are obvious visible changes in the condiments after the Catholic priest does his hocus pocus;
(b) tests have confirmed a divine presence in the bread and wine;
(c) now and then their god shows up and confirms this story; or
(d) their religious convictions tell them to blindly accept this completely fvcking absurd nonsense.
I believe that an all powerful being, capable of creating the entire cosmos watches me have $ex to make sure I don't do anything "naughty". I am
(a) A victim of child molestation
(b) A r.ape victim trying to recover
(c) A mental patient with paranoid delusions
(d) A Christian
The only discipline known to often cause people to kill others they have never met and/or to commit suicide in its furtherance is:
(c) Archeology; or
What is it that most differentiates science and all other intellectual disciplines from religion:
(a) Religion tells people not only what they should believe, but what they are morally obliged to believe on pain of divine retribution, whereas science, economics, medicine etc. has no “sacred cows” in terms of doctrine and go where the evidence leads them;
(b) Religion can make a statement, such as “there is a composite god comprised of God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit”, and be totally immune from experimentation and challenge, whereas science can only make factual assertions when supported by considerable evidence;
(c) Science and the scientific method is universal and consistent all over the World whereas religion is regional and a person’s religious conviction, no matter how deeply held, is clearly nothing more than an accident of birth; or
(d) All of the above.
If I am found wandering the streets flagellating myself, wading into a filth river, mutilating my child’s genitals or kneeling down in a church believing that a being is somehow reading my inner thoughts and prayers, I am likely driven by:
(a) a deep psychiatric issue;
(b) an irrational fear or phobia;
(c) a severe mental degeneration caused by years of drug abuse; or
(d) my religious belief.
Who am I? I don’t pay any taxes. I never have. Any money my organization earns is tax free and my own salary is also tax free, at the federal, state and local level. Despite contributing nothing to society, but still enjoying all its benefits, I feel I have the right to tell others what to do. I am
(a) A sleazy Wall Street banker
(b) A mafia boss
(c) A drug pusher; or
(d) A Catholic Priest, Protestant Minister or Jewish Rabbi.
What do the following authors all have in common – Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal:
(a) They are among the most gifted writers the World has known;
(b) They concentrated on opposing dogma and opening the human mind and spirit to the wonders of free thought and intellectual freedom;
(c) They were intimidated by the Catholic Church and put on the Church’s list of prohibited authors; or
(d) All of the above.
The AIDS epidemic will kill tens of millions in poor African and South American countries before we defeat it. Condoms are an effective way to curtail its spread. As the Pope still has significant influence over the less educated masses in these parts of the World, he has exercised this power by:
(a) Using some of the Vatican’s incomprehensible wealth to educate these vulnerable people on health family planning and condom use;
(b) Supporting government programs that distribute condoms to high risk groups;
(c) Using its myriad of churches in these regions to distribute condoms; or
(d) Scaring people into NOT using condoms, based upon his disdainful and aloof view that it is better that a person die than go against the Vatican’s position on contraceptive use.
could you post a one sentence summary?
One sentence summary.
Religion = Deluion.
And cricket man is too lazy to read anything he doesn't agree with, or too afraid.
Oops, that's DELUSION
Pascal ..do you have anything noteworthy to say? cricket cricket.....
Why? Perhaps you are used to summing up the logic of life on a bumper sticker? Or perhaps when your one sentence fits all mentality is confronted by reality it make you think - painful. For those of us impacted by such 'enlightened' one sentence fits all mentality as yourself, I say "READ".
Never heard of TLDR?
Not related, but... the responses to this article are a great argument for the NY legislation banning anonymous comment posts. There are too many cowardly people on CNN comment boards lately. You may argue that it is free speech, but only a coward would hide behind a wall and throw stones at people he cant see.
Banning comment sections on news sites would be far easier
And you are guilty of exactly the same thing by calling them cowards. Coward.
It's not cowardly, it's reality. People give their true opinion about things in anonimity that would "in public" bring the nut cases to their door with pitchforks and torches.
people post anonymous cause there are crazies out there that can't just debate and leave it alone. They want to Kill you for your ideas, beliefs, or bad grammer. I would argue that posting anonymous gives everyone a voice, and you can choose to read it or ignore it. And yes, that is free speech. The internet is a great thing, and hopefully one day it will put an end to religion and bronze age mentality
Fine then you be the first. Post your name, age, political leanings, number of kids, name of those kids, where they go to school, your address, SS#, eye color, favorite food and any other info that will make it easier to identify you.
Agreed. I rarely read comments anymore. Refreshing to read your post.
I have found that CNN Censors posts that don't comport with their corporate mainstream mindset. So, many intelligent posts to articles NEVER APPEAR b/c of this routine censorship. So, that leaves you with only the hateful, nonsensical, inane, and extremist viewpoints that CNN has no problem posting. It's called, catering to the lowest common denominator in its run FROM the Truth.
Except for the fact nobody knows who he's throwing the stones at,either. All the arguing on here is kinda like a food fight in the dark. Somebody gets hit with a tomato, and boy do they get p!ssed. They just know someone did it intentionally, is attacking them personally, even though nobody can see anybody and nobody knows who anyone really is.
Take a good look at yourselves. In the light.
RoadRunner – there are no censors here, only word filters.
Sort of like the drone being used to kill innocent civilians all over the world, operated by some nut job with a joystick in Texas, for the GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD!
I am under the impression that a lot of these evangelical types want the apocalypse to happen so they will meet Jesus. They will antagonize anyone to make it happen. (other countries with nukes). Here is an idea: just kill yourselves now and don't screw it up for the rest of us who realize there is no afterlife.
All the faithful rushing off to their heaven would fix so may of the worlds problems, it could become more like heaven here on earth.
Yep, you would think if they had tall buildings where they live, or sidearms, this would all be a moot issue.
This article shows how faith and determination can lead to a happy fulfilling life. Good for Mr. and Mrs. Warner! Hopefully her story and their faith will inspire others to endure and have patience. Things can and do get better if you live your life according to true principles. .
Having a bucketload of money sure doesn't hurt either. Notice when she was "poor" her life was shambles ..
It's a good living telling people what lovely things you can easily imagine, instead of spending lots of time and effort actually getting educated and properly thinking things through.
And what about all those people – the 99 percent – who do not have "wonderful" things happen to them no matter what they do?
99 percent of people do not see any 'joy' or 'happiness' or 'prosperity' or anything.
There are no guarantees in life no matter what you do or who you are or where you live or what god you pray to.
What about those starving children in Africa? Did they anger your god by being hungry? They die by the thousands.
Your religion is utter and total BS. Crime pays. The poor stay poor. Bad things happen for many reasons but following some rules will not guarantee you will even see tomorrow, so take your fake religion and shove it where the sun don't shine.
Evolution is a theory, and by definition it is NOT FACT. It has many holes and unanswered question, and it takes alot of faith to believe in evolution. No difference than believing in God. So if you are arguing that teaching children about God is child abuse, then so would teaching about evolution would also be child abuse. If you dont accept Jesus, that fine, but dont tell those who do how to live out their lives of faith in Jesus. Neither do Christian tells atheist how to live. We just share the truth that Jesus lived, died and rose again. And this same Jesus will come again, and every eye will see him. Considering the condition of the world today, this day is very close. Those who believe in him rejoice and look forward to his coming.
It's a fact. It's religion that is the 100% evidence free theory. A con is still a con even if it uses the word "glory"
But religion isn't even a "theory", because it has no basis to even think it may be a realistic possibility.
Unless you sprang forth fully formed and fully knowing from the womb, then you evolved from a mass of cells to the person you are today.
One more time..%99.9 of scientists believe in evolution.%99.9.That is a lot of knowledgeable people.OK.Proof for god-zero.Using any sort of SANE logic, you should be able to understand the skeptics point of view,when they refuse to believe in religion...or maybe not.
Sorry about the "theory" semantics. I thought it better to try and explain in the context the "faithful" might more easily understand. After all, they throw the hard work of education overboard in favor of the much less work of wishful imagination.
I don't know Jay, i might not understand how they unravel genetics, but just because I am ignorant of such does not make me jump to the conclusion that it is more scientific to listen to burning bushes.
Really enjoyed this uplifting test of faith that tells the story of many who have known that Jesus does save.
How much of their success money have they given to the "saved" to give them the same "saved" financial life style? I have a feeling it's the other way round.
Jesus couldn't get in to the show. No riff-raff please.
Indeed he does... he just put $666,000,000 in my 401k plan... the dude's fantastic!
I wonder when Kurt is going to dumped for a younger model.
My money is on spousal abuse.
How about weall decide to reject fanciful tales about cosmic zombies. A son sent from a bearded man in the sky to be tortured for the sins of a man who created a woman from his rib and she ate an apple. Come on dude. Its a ridiculous as roman myth, at least that is interesting and isnt drenched in self hating guilt. Reason shall set you free you brain washed sheep. We need to stop celebrating peoples belief in unreasonable bunk. Faith should be a curse word. Reason toted should be canonized ... I know its a bit of any oxymoron
Just how many times are the Christianists going to jump up and down and demand that we adopt their "beliefs," and then call us "the real haters" when we refuse?
Well now it's all clear, notice Amway in the picture?
If you're gullible enough to follow religion and worship god(s) then you're a prime candidate for falling into those multi-level marketing schemes
What really gets me is that looking at CNN or papers one would think that this country is both Atheistic and pro gay.Yet polling shows that better than 90% of our country has a belief in a higher power.And as for the gays 30 states have voted and 30 states have voted against the gays.In Minnesota the gays are losing in the latest polling by 15%.The media and loud mouth liberals appear to be in 1 world.While the rest of us are in a world called reality.
If god is reality, then call "it" as witness in court. Wasn't around to stop the pedophile priests abusing the (suffer the little children" either
Too bad they didn't do polling in say, 1866. We could have got a read for how people felt about slavery, how freeing the slaves would ruin our economy, how it was against our proud American culture. The Christians certainly defended slavery. I guess all this "Christian-hating" began when they let blacks go to school with whites.
Lots of haters here. Wow. Whether one agrees with her faith or not, she and Kurt are making this world a better place through their charity. That should be respected and commended.
Believe it or not .. a person can be charitable with or without religion. Go ahead and commend them for their charity, the article is about her (& his) Christian celebrity pushing an agenda many do not agree with.
IfHorsesHadGods.. is right, Celebrities should NEVER being pushing an agenda!!! That's what's wrong here. These Warners must be HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE people.
I'm wondering what it cost to get in....
Did Jesus charge admission? Did he sell Amway? Was the whole thing a scheme to corner the Jerusalem fish market?
Why do lady realtors and lady evangelists look so alike? Is it the similarity in the pay scales?
Because they each want to sell you something.
Touching story. Don't see why we need to hypothesize a god was involved.
How is this news worthy????????????????????//
Some people may see it as a good human interest story.
maybe bc it's the religious blog?
The CNN Belief Blog is the second best place to see the intolerance, rage and narrow-mindedness of the athiest Left in America. Trite, worn-out insults thrown with smirks and finger-jabs like 12-year olds telling "mother jokes" in middle school playgrounds. With their mediocre US education, these anti-religion zealots recite back the shallow arguments drummed into their heads by their equally under-educated teachers from public high school and college. All the while, pronouncing their dedication to "science" and aborrence of "Fairy tales". All because Christians are DOING SO MUCH HARM?
BTW. The FIRST best place to see this anger and intolerance on display was the GOD vote at the DNC. Nice group of folks.
Hey, we're just contributing to the overall entropy of the system. Just like you. Enjoy a double penetration dildo with someone you love.
The real anger and intolerance is coming from Christianists like you. No use your trying to project your own hatred and fear for everyone who doesn't share your beliefs onto "atheists.".
Yes, I am intolerant of stupidity, when it not their own fault (i.e., you seem a reasonable individual but choose to be what you are). But on top of that, I am vehemently against people like you, who use their bigotry to hate on atheists who speak their minds, fully in compliance of the 1st amendment. It seems to me that your problem is that when we (atheists) talk about reason, and offer perfectly legitimate arguments that you (believers) are unable to properly respond to, we immediately become 'hateful' and 'narrow-minded'. How is it that believing in the natural work as the reality in which we live in, is 'narrow-minded' exactly?
How do you take it upon yourself to generalize like you say, saying things like atheists have 'mediocre' education and so on? Yes, Christians, and many other religious belief systems, and their accompanying organizations, do a lot of harm to the entire world. Just look at the GOP for a very good example.
".... intolerance, rage and narrow-mindedness of the athiest Left in America" I think you have that wrong. The Christian Right is as intolerant, angry, and narrow-minded as you accuse the left of being.That's what is wrong with polotics in America today. There is no longer a middle between the two. Both the left and right could be considered terrorist-like in the beliefs. One clings to it's religion and the other clings to it's Atheism. Not very different from the Islamic terrorists of the world.
I think it's called Irony when you read Notheism's impassioned rant and then read Unreality's representative retort of the what litters this blog.
Is that what you call a Christian rant? Way to spread the love...
Read your post and tell me how Christian it is. You are angry. Cool your wrath.
And as far as the "Atheist Left..." There sure isn't any room for them on the Right, is there?
Your MOM spoke at the DNC (wait, was this religious story about politics?)–nice straw man. Arguing points that weren't brought to the field at all.
Quite the contrary. If you browse through the posts by atheists and believers within the various articles of the blog, you will that atheists are frequently asking the believer to do a few things before discussion is even possible:
– write a coherent sentence
– spell correctly
– punctuate correctly
Even after spelling and grammar are addressed, we too often find in these discussions that the religious poster still has not made a clear point.
So it is quite clear that most people arguing against atheists are poorly educated.
Unnecessary insults do fly in both directions, but your point on education level is completely laughable. It's silly to try to argue the point of which sciences to teach when, as it appears here, fundies can't even write. If they can't write, there is usually a problem with reading as well.
In case someone needs an example, just look at the posts at 11:24 and 11:35 and their replies for the article "Conventions leave atheists asking: What political party represents me?"
Let's look at your wager, Pascal. Here's a matrix of the outcomes as some numerical measure of desirability. v1 and v2 are finite. -∞ means unbounded in the direction of eternal torment. +∞ means unbounded in the direction of eternal bliss.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++God exists but is not your god++++God exists and is your god+++++God does not exist++
Wager that your god exists____________-∞__________________________+∞____________________v1___________
Wager that no god exists______________-∞__________________________-∞____________________v2___________
Probabilities: God exists and is not your god: p1
God exists and is your god: p2
God does not exist: p3
p1 + p2 + p3 = 1;
There are infinitely many gods to choose from and only one God.
I am the POPE and I love being a CHRISTIAN – my fellow CHRISTIANS clothe me in world’s finest silk, give me all the wine I can ingest, present me with the world’s greatest jewelry, gold and art, give me the world’s finest and most expensive food, a wonderful ornate palace to live in, free healthcare, along with a great bed to sleep in (with anyone I want) and they even have a Vatican army to protect me from the poor CHRISTIANS who envy me…
Gee, Pascal, yer soooo smart, knowing that those who are atheists are "leftists".....just please let us bathe in the glow of yer intellect
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.