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Mormon blogger says he faces church slap-down, possible excommunication
The Mormon temple in Salt Lake City, where the church is headquartered.
September 24th, 2012
04:03 PM ET

Mormon blogger says he faces church slap-down, possible excommunication

By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

(CNN) – A Mormon blogger in Florida typed his way into national headlines when he recently went public about facing possible disciplinary action from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

David Twede, who says he’s a fifth-generation Mormon, is the managing editor of MormonThink.com, an online publication that invites debate and open discussion about the LDS Church.

Late last week, The Daily Beast reported that after writing articles critical of GOP Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, Twede, 47, said he was called into church offices in Orlando, Florida, where he was “interrogated” and given “cease and desist” orders.

At the end of this meeting, Twede says on his personal blog that he was handed a letter, which he has posted online. The letter, which spells his name incorrectly, requests that he appear before a disciplinary council on September 30. It states that he is being considered for disciplinary action “including the possibility of disfellowshipment or excommunication, because you are reported to have been in apostasy.”

Twede admits that what’s driving this prospective spiritual slap-down seems to be a matter of debate. Was it Twede’s criticism of Romney or something else?

The church's actions around Twede, who recently returned to the church after a long hiatus, has nothing to do with his politics, LDS Church spokesman Michael Purdy said in a statement:

"It is patently false for someone to suggest they face Church discipline for having questions or for expressing a political view.  The Church is an advocate of individual choice.  It is a core tenet of our faith.  Church discipline becomes necessary only in those rare occasions when an individual’s actions cannot be ignored while they claim to be in good standing with the Church. Every organization, whether religious or secular, must be able to define where its boundaries begin and end."

The New York Times reported that it was Twede's public admission that he was trying to sway the beliefs of others at church that got him into trouble. The Salt Lake Tribune said it was his sharing of details about sacred LDS temple ceremonies – disclosures that faithful Mormons find offensive – that raised concerns.

The LDS Church is staying mum.

“While some may want to make their version of an issue public, the Church will not discuss the private lives of individuals,” Purdy said in his statement. “These matters are handled by local Church leaders and are done in an attitude of love and caring.  There are a number of possible outcomes to a Church disciplinary proceeding, only one of which is excommunication, which would be the most severe and least common result.”

Twede, who says he works in science and technology but wouldn't get more specific, hopes it doesn’t come to that.

He said he decided to become involved with the church after a five-year hiatus to get a better perspective.

“I cannot effectively address the concerns of members of my church if I am not there with them seeing what they see and hearing what they hear,” Twede wrote in an e-mail. “I believe if the LDS church officials do discipline me for my speech, it will show that the leaders in Salt Lake City run a cultist organization that is unable to withstand the scrutiny of a website that advocates honest and open discussion of its troubling history and present actions.”

The timing of his renewed interest is suspicious to some, including to Scott Gordon, president of the Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research, an organization that defends the LDS Church from detractors. He says Twede only began going back to church a couple of weeks ago after he assumed the managing editor role at MormonThink.

“He went to church for the purpose of being able to say he’s an active member in order to market his site better,” Gordon said.

But Twede said his identity hinges on being able to call himself a Mormon.

“I don't want to lose connection with my family culture that's existed with us for five generations,” he said by e-mail.

- CNN Writer/Producer

Filed under: Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints • Mitt Romney • Mormonism • Politics

soundoff (863 Responses)
  1. lol

    Lol
    Mormons are like Stalin
    minus the balls

    September 24, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • barlow23

      Yes, that does deserve an LOL, way to go lol, you maggot.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm |
    • Dakota

      I have been through the temple and I can say that there is a huge conflict of interest there in regards to ANY member of the LDS church being president of the United States. That promise places the church as number one, not the welfare of the people of this country. It is called (this can be googled) The Law of Consecration. Because I know what promises he made I will not be voting for him.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:03 pm |
    • barlow23

      Way to go Dakota, see you in hell.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • Dakota

      I am sure you will make great company in hell Barlow23. I will bring the root beer and you can bring the cards. Now we just need some one to bring the card table.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:07 pm |
    • barlow23

      And some magic underwear to protect us from the flames, right Dakota? You know what I mean right? The magic underwear you wore while you went through the temple? Lift up your shirt, you're wearing it now right? And its MAGIC!!! Do you feel MAGIC? Oh man it's so cool to make fun of mormons!

      September 24, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      @Barlow, do you really think there is a HELL? Seriously..

      September 24, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
    • barlow23

      Of course not, I was just messing with Dakota. Wait, do you know something I don't? Are you a fountain of knowledge too or just another tool with an opinion like the rest of us?

      September 24, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
    • Dakota

      Barlow23, there are some who have been pressured to go through the temple. I was one of those. While I am no longer part of the church I will not make fun of their practices or what they wear. As far as I am concerned what they wear is no more ridiculous than the uniforms that clerics wear in any other religion. I simply will not vote for Romney because I see a conflict of interest between being a leader of this country and promises to the LDS church. Now you should be a good little boy...(or girl) an stop trolling.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
    • barlow23

      Do you have proof there is no hell? Or do you just feel so smart that you just know and your knowledge is superior to mine because you work at a college? You have proof there is no hell? Please provide your proof.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:23 pm |
  2. pastmorm

    I'm a 7th generation mormon (was because I had my name removed from the church by MY choice) and I can assure you that the church is anything but loving and kind during what they call "Bishops court." They pretty much sit around you, dressed like a bunch of Donald Trumps (smelling kinda funny because their polyester garments have this strange smell that you just recognize right away) glaring at you while they force you to confess to your "crime" or face a terrible punishment. They have a whole organization like Opus Dei – called the "Avenging Angels" that takes care of their "dirty work." So make sure to watch what happens to this guy...
    The very fact that he's forbidden to talk about ceremonies that the mormons do in their temples indicates that they are a cult. NO religion keeps secrets like that! Only cults do and we cannot have a President sitting the the Oval Office that belongs to such a creepy cult!

    September 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm |
    • Dustin Goldsen

      Ok so a bunch of guys in suits yell at you. Where's their clout? Just tell them to go pound sand, walk out, and do as you please.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • Twinkle

      You sound bitter. Hee hee! And I'm sure that has no bearing on your posting. Hee hee! Poor little bitter person. Couldn't cut the mustard so you're badmouthing any and everyone. Must suck to be you.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • pastmorm

      Wow twinkle, you are an example of good old mormon hatred. Do you think your nasty post just endeared you or your church to people reading this? Yes I'm bitter. I'm very bitter that I was raised in a cult that claims to be a church! Heck yeah, you'd be bitter too if you had a brain!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • kabelme

      First off, it is called a disciplinary council. I have sat on many, and most are actually very spiritual, in that the repentant person is looking to straighten out their lives. The council is there to assist the person get back on track, not to kick them off the track. There are also others which can feel quite contentious. It is not comfortable for either party. But there is usually more to the story than just a "bunch of Donald Trumps" glaring at you. So I think you are mischaraterizing the event.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:57 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @pastmorm

      " They have a whole organization like Opus Dei – called the "Avenging Angels" that takes care of their "dirty work."

      Sounds a lot like Scientology and their practices as well.

      " The very fact that he's forbidden to talk about ceremonies that the mormons do in their temples indicates that they are a cult. "

      I would tend to agree. I mean what's up with all the "secrets" regarding these ceremonies...? The old... unless you're one of us, you couldn't possibly understand ?

      Peace...

      September 24, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • God hates Religion

      Hey Twinkle, being a doosh won't get you your planet to rule over!

      September 24, 2012 at 8:59 pm |
    • John R

      I am sorry that your court experience was not uplifting. I can only say that I was disfellpwsipped in 1973 and actually found it to be an uplifting experience. In the 90s, I had a calling that had me in several courts on the other side. All my experiences have been different than yours. I don't believe we are a cult and we certainly ...for the most part...follow like sheep I have been in church congregations all over the US, in Vietnam, Belgium, Austria, Ukraine and Macedonia. I have seen a great diversity of opinion and most people I know do think for themselves.

      September 24, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • Rich

      Wow! A lot of people are pointing fingers! Guess what? The Mormon church is a religious cult just like any other. I once was a Mormon myself and went through the Mormon Temple. Once I discovered that the Mormon Temple Ceremonies are identical to those practiced by the Free Masons in the Masonic Temples then it all began to make sense to me. The wording is different and no I am not a Free Mason but I have studied it online and it books and DVD's. Obviously somebody in Joseph Smith's family was a Free Mason and passed it down to him. Maybe he was a Free Mason. As far as Romney goes, he doesn't represent me and I would not vote for him simply because he acts like a politician. Politics is about power and anybody seeking political office is seeking power for their good not yours or mine. We need to have term limits on all of congress and the senate as well as the president.

      September 25, 2012 at 1:45 am |
  3. Reality

    A general slap down of all religions: (only for new members of this blog)

    As THE INFAMOUS ANGELIC CONS CONTINUE TO WREAK STUPIDITY UPON THE WORLD

    Joe Smith had his Moroni. (As does M. Romney)

    "Latter-day Saints like M. Romney also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

    Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

    Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

    Jesus and his family had/has Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented. (As does Obama and his family)(As does Biden and Ryan)

    The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

    Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie/horn-blowing thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
    Some added references to "tink-erbells".

    newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm

    "The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."
    Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:

    "TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."

    And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:

    "In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

    "The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

    "The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

    For added information see the review at:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel

    September 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Twinkle

      And you got your meth and heroin! Dude!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
  4. you should know

    Hitchens & Dawkins Expose Mormon Religion
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Etownp_Rmw&w=640&h=390]

    September 24, 2012 at 5:34 pm |
    • NPRJim

      Muslims in the mid-east. Mormans in the USA-They pretty much want the same thing, to be in charge of the world. Anyone that doesn't toe the party line will be kicked out, on that you can be sure. The only reason they don't do even worse is cause this is the USA and they know that they can't.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @you should know

      Good find.

      Peace...

      September 24, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
  5. Paul

    Simply put, the guy wants to post sacred rituals of the Mormons and then not pay any price for that. And he doesn't want to get excommunicated, because he enjoys belonging to the church. Too bad for that guy. He may find the church doesn't feel the same way. He would do better to go join one of the ex-Mormon groups or, even better, just get on with his life.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • Chat Pata

      How about this. This guy wants to accept the religious authority of the Mormon Church but does not want to accept the Mormon Church's politics i.e. all out support to Romney. But you are right, like every rational person he should leave the Mormon church, and yet better leave Christianity itself, and become an atheist.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • Rationalintn

      Why so secretive about church rituals?? Any Catholic could post extensive details of church rituals and no one would have a problem with that. But, then again, the Catholic Church is NOT a cult.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • David Miscavige

      We'll take him at the Church of Scientology. Heck, we'll take anyone. We're not proud. But it helps if you have money, honey, because we have to keep up our image!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
  6. USA

    Bull crap story. I am a Mormon and politics are not discussed. We believe in free agency. Tweade is a hoax, wanting his 15 minutes of fame, and CNN is biased and helping to discredit Romney because they are for Obama. CNN reporting this story is actually funny, they want to report on a "fictional" story about a Church being biased, yet the media is supposed to be fair and report the news, and CNN is right behind MSNBC on bias. SICKENING!!!!

    September 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • Chat Pata

      Dude. You just admitted you are Romney supporter and that is why you are angry at him. This affirms that Mormon Church is officially supporting Romney and anyone who refuses you, sees it's wrath. Maybe Christians should do the same and order all to vote Obama.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • NPRJim

      You are biased and trying to help Romney because you are a magic underwear wearing Mormon.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • pastmorm

      No usa...you are the hoax! You're all shaking in your boots now that the truth is out!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • barlow23

      Yes Chat, please send out the directive to the christian church to vote for Obama. Wait, is there a centralized christian church? No? Then your comment speaks to your true level of intelect...

      September 24, 2012 at 5:39 pm |
    • jrae1

      Like the Mormon church bankrolling the bill against gays and lesbians in California a couple of years ago?

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • Xman

      Nobody needs to discredit Romney because Romney is doing a find job of that by himself.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • Rationalintn

      Since you stated that you are Mormon, perhaps you could answer a question I've had for a very long time. I've been in the homes of Mormons in the past. I'm wondering why they have large storage rooms stocked with canned and dried foods, as well as other supplies? These aren't just pantries, these look like they are preparing for a catastrophe. Anything you care to share with the rest of us? It looks like you folks no something the rest of us don't know.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • barlow23

      NPR Jim, you did it!! You pulled out the old magic underwear joke! Way to go man, because that's not old at all. You rock!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • Ian

      If you are complaining about this guy wanting his 15 mins of fame; maybe you should also complain about the morman church giving it to him! Also, maybe you should just stick to the fox network; oh, you say you already do that?!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • hinduism source of hindufilthyracism.

      So you are pseudo Jew, self centered, right, give up hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism, labeled as Christianity and accept truth absolute as your GOD.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • kabelme

      Rationalintn – church members are taught to try to maintain a year's worth of supplies, to be able to take care of themselves in the event of any kind of emergency, such as unemployment, family needs, natural disasters. Much like a savings account, but in actual material. Very simple idea, but very smart.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
    • conrad

      Rationalintn,

      I'm not Mormon, but some members of my family were/are. My grandparents (and my parents to a lesser degree) had the basement stocked full of food as well. It goes way back in the Mormon tradition. From I was told, you could say they are being good boy-scouts by being prepared for either a disaster, or the second coming ... either way they are big on being self-reliant so having food stores that can be used in case of an emergency is part of that.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:02 pm |
    • magic underwear

      2 words: 1.) magic 2.) underwear
      Enough said.

      September 24, 2012 at 7:50 pm |
  7. Dave

    Hmm. The samd LDS church that wouldn't allow Women to be elders, or Black persons to even JOIN until they were forced to is now slapping down a member critical of Lyin Ryan and Willard "the wig" Robmey. Why is this not surprising that they brook no opposing opinions.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • kabelme

      you are SERIOUSLY misinformed

      September 24, 2012 at 5:33 pm |
    • bignevermo

      ahh ahh ahh now lets be fair here...Black folk have ALWAYS been allowed to attend...what they were NOT allowed was to hold the "priesthood"...which every Mormon boy can be at the age of 12. So a 12 year old boy would have more "authority" than a 50 year old black man in the Church hierarchy. What that did was effectively ban blacks from the Temple and the higher levels of glory!! So no planets to Lord over like the white men get to do!!
      just correcting! :)

      September 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • texcal68

      Blacks could join, but they couldn't hold a priesthood position in the Church until 1978. In 1978, after much criticism, the leadership in the church received a revelation from god which removed that prohibition. Women have always been able to join the church. However, they can't ever become leaders of the church. Moreover, only men can receive revelations from god.

      September 24, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
    • kabelme

      @ texcal69 The president of the Relief Society is the "leader" over the largest and oldest women's organization on the planet. Women are in fact many of the greatest leaders in the church. You should get your facts straight.

      September 25, 2012 at 12:46 am |
    • bignevermo

      Kabelme...what a crock with the Relief Society inflates its membership roles...they count EVERY Mormon woman as a member whereas all other organizations you need to join to be counted...and the International Association of Charity – Worldwide Catholic charitable organization for women (founded 1617) is way older than the RS...and they dont count all Catholic woman as members...
      just correcting!

      September 27, 2012 at 10:25 am |
  8. Harry Kermet

    I used to be Mormon, it's a cult. There is nothing more exciting for this cult than to have one of its members installed as the President of the United States of America. It is very true that they are out for world domination, this not an understatement.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • barlow23

      Right on Harry! You must be really smart. The calculated insertion of Harry Reid as the senate majority leader was our first step toward world domination! Jokes on you man! Wait, are you really Harry Reid?

      September 24, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • bignevermo

      Barlow...educate yourself on the "White Horse Prophesy sir/madam! Or wait...you already know about that dont ya! :)

      September 24, 2012 at 5:40 pm |
    • barlow23

      bignevermo, that was a great counter...how can i join your cult so i can learn wisdom from you?

      September 24, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • Ian

      Barlow.....Big didn't say or insinuate anything about being a member of a cult.......you on the other hand.....

      September 24, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • barlow23

      Ian you have found me out, well done, you tool.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
  9. AgrippaMT

    Shades of the Inquisition in the Middle Ages. No doubt Bishop Romney is involved in this.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • barlow23

      and harry reid too, right? cause he's mormon...oh those mormons are so darn scary. Hey agrippaMT, you suck.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • AgrippaMT

      But Harry Reid is not a bishop. Mittens is the political bishop, with high rank in the cult.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • barlow23

      Um....okay.

      September 24, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  10. Calidrew

    Reading the comments on here is pretty disturbing. If you don't like the teachings of a group, you don't have to belong to that group! What was so hard about that?

    And to all of the people leaving negative and obviously false comments regarding this religion, don't you have anything better to do with your time?

    September 24, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • Ohsnap

      I agree. I don't understand people who willingly join a church, then decide that they want to sue the church because they don't agree with its tenants. The simple solution is 'don't join'. This guy, having been a member prior to this, knows what the Mormon church is. Do I think their beliefs are strange? Yeah, but that's why I'm not a Mormon.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
    • God hates Religion

      Not a problem, I won't join your cult, but don't expect me to vote for your politician either, he will put the church ABOVE the USA because that is what he pledged to do inside that church in one of those secret ceremonies. The church comes first, before Americans, NO Thanks!

      September 24, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
  11. barlow23

    Oh I can't wait for more really funny magic underwear jokes. People who continue to tell those jokes are hilarious.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • texcal68

      If magic underwear was the funniest thing about the Mormon mythology, it would be laughable. Unfortunately, the tenets of Mormonism are more scary than funny. Of course, what can we expect from a church founded by a fraud.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • texcal68

      If magic underwear was the funniest thing about the Mormon mythology, it would be laughable. Unfortunately, the tenets of Mormonism are more scary than funny. Of course, what can we expect from a church founded by a fraud. I encourage voters to learn more about Joseph Smith before voting this November.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • barlow23

      Yes, very scary indeed! You must be very scared of mormons in magic underwear, you coward.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:43 pm |
    • conrad

      Hey, if the underwear were actually magic they would probably have even more followers. But in truth they are just reminders of their beliefs, a symbolic sheath between this imperfect world and the spiritual life within, and handy limiters of modesty (sleeves and pant legs long enough to hide them). I'm pretty sure other religions do similar things.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:13 pm |
    • thecollegeadmissionsguru

      I find the whole of the Mormon Church to be dishonest at best. Any church that goes about the business of "baptizing" dead people so that they can claim them as members of the church, is just dishonest.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • barlow23

      Strong argument college, way off base but strong for you. the church doesn't count baptized dead as members. you don't know more about this church than the members of it. be honest with yourself and do some research before you post nonsense.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:28 pm |
    • God hates Religion

      Barlow23...if you are a Mormon you certainly are a poor representative for your church. If Mormons act the way you do then all the sterotypes must be true, that Mormons are rigid and brain washed. Standing up for your beliefs starts with humility and love, not anger.

      September 24, 2012 at 9:09 pm |
  12. mama kindless

    OK, I admit this story sounds funny and silly for cnn to post at first. But it sure sounds and smells like trouble around the corner for those of us who cherish the separation of church and state, should the Rummy pirate get into office. If these people are this nuts, then how could we expect this man to think rationally?

    September 24, 2012 at 5:16 pm |
    • barlow23

      Harry Reid is a practicing mormon...have you seen the church sway him yet?

      September 24, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • mama kindless

      No, but that's because he doesn't belong the a party of nutballs. Romney and Ryan are nutballs on steroids and I wouldn't trust them to keep their religion out of government any more than I trust them to do what's best for the middle class.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:28 pm |
    • texcal68

      Whether Senator Reid has been swayed by the Mormon cult is known. If he hasn't he's probably a "jack" Mormon.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • barlow23

      Very strong argument Mama Kindness (kindess?). I don't know how anyone could argue with that logic.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Happy Day

      Both parties is full nutballs. Take a look and both parties just care about themselves and getting re-elected.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • barlow23

      Texcal68, way to make sure you used the word "cult" in your response, great display of your ignorance. Please enlighten us on the reason you use this word, other than following the lead of other biggoted posters.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:37 pm |
    • bignevermo

      Barlow...ever heard of "milk before meat"? A cult may be described as:"A destructive cult is a pyramid-shaped authoritarian regime with a person or group of people that have dictatorial control. It uses deception in recruiting new members (e.g. people are NOT told up front what the group is, what the group actually believes and what will be expected of them if they become members)." Missionary's are trained to avoid or obfuscate the truth when trying to "dunk" a convert!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • barlow23

      Bignevermo, glad you can read a dictionary you bafoon.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:56 pm |
    • bignevermo

      wow Barlow...you seem to have a lot of anger...and you call people you don't know names...why how Christian of you...are you feeling persecuted yet? I do notice that you bring nothing of substance to the discussion. I bring facts and can back them up with sources...better go "play" with someone else that hasn't my knowledge of your religion.
      just witnessing!

      September 24, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • kabelme

      @bignevermo – uh, having been there and done that, missionaries are not "trained to avoid or obfuscate the truth when trying to "dunk" a convert". I can't even imagine where you would come up with this. You seem to forget these are usually 19-20 year kids straight out of their homes. it would take unbelievable resources, time, study, to even begin to do what you suggest. So I would suggest stop reading the stuff written by anti-mormon publishers, ask the 2 local missionaries in for a drink, and ask them point blank to share with you what their "training" has been. You might be surprised and enlightened.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • bignevermo

      so Kabelme...tell me...how many investigators did you give the "meat before the milk" ever mention Kolob or that they could become Lords/Gods over their own planet when they are exalted? Did you ever mention that you were not allowed to swim on your P-day because Satan rules the waters? Did you ever tell them that unless they were "worthy" their own Mothers could not attend their Mormon wedding day at The Temple? Did you ever tell an investigator that Blacks were denied the priesthood before 1978?
      just sayin!...hey at least you dont call me names! :)

      September 24, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • kabelme

      @ bignevermo – not sure if you have kids, but if you do, you probably had them read Dr Seuss before Melville, correct? So you have to define a starting point, and you build from there. Some investigators come into a discussion with no pretenses at all. They are just interested to learn, so you start from the beginning. So investigators have read quite a bit, so you adapt to the level of your audience. this is not "to avoid or obfuscate the truth" as you suggest, but to go deeper into subjects that the audience requires. I have no issues talking about the actual doctrines of the church. They are what they are and I make no apologies for any of it. The examples you brought up are actually interesting. I was a national level swimmer and served in the Caribbean. So yes, I explained many times why I did not go into the water (except to baptize of course, right in the ocean, it was awesome). Your comment about Satan is not really correct. As far as mother's not being able to go to a wedding, I am a convert myself, and my own mother, father, aunt, brother did not attend the ceremony in the temple. However, tastefully done, the ceremony afterwards completely included them. So even though what you say may be right on some level, it is not quite as you say. The issue for blacks was and is very real there as well. So, if asked, and many times there would be people such as yourself, making sure the topic was brought up, I would dive into it. I would also be very honest and say that I did not understand it all. But since this is a spiritual teaching, I simply left it up to the investigator to see if they cared or not. Most did not. Some did. I'll tell you that I was never deceiving, allusive, or obfuscating about the church. But I also did not package my comments in the derogatory sense that you might.

      September 24, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
    • bignevermo

      HMMM Kabelme...National swimmer huh? I swam for the UM(Miami) club team for years and played H2O Polo for several as well..anyway here at FAIR they say this:"The Church has a general policy prohibiting full-time missionaries from swimming." here from the DC 61:13-15:
      13 And now, behold, for your good I gave unto you a commandment concerning these things; and I, the Lord, will reason with you as with men in days of old.
      14 Behold, I, the Lord, in the beginning blessed the waters; but in the last days, by the mouth of my servant John, I cursed the waters.
      15 Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters.

      now that is not the "chapter and verse"...but look at what those points say...this was a revelation after some problems on the Missouri River.
      To address the issue of only one source...not hardly...first it is a logical fallacy to state that JS"" was not smart enough to write the BoM...not only was there at least one book that JS had access to that can explain how JS wrote the book and did not translate it...B. H. Roberts, a General Authority of the church until his death in 1933, studied the Book of Mormon extensively and concluded that Joseph Smith could have authored it himself, using as a source the 1825 book A View of the Hebrews by a protestant minister...the first version of the BoM states he is the AUTHOR...and that the BoM was "translated.The fact that he was using his "peep stone and hat" was confirmed in the Ensign and did ya talk about the D&C 132 to your investigators? If you feel as though you were honest in your dealings with your fellow man...I bow to your assertion...but I do need to attend to other aspects of my life...but suffice it to say I know about Mormonism due to some close relations i have had...anyway i hope that I am not too derogatory towards you...actually i dont think I have at all...:) Have a nice night!

      September 24, 2012 at 8:44 pm |
    • bignevermo

      one last thing ...the resources to train the young men and women is done the MTC...typically for up to 12 weeks...lots of time to train...thats what the MTC does...train! :)

      September 24, 2012 at 8:49 pm |
    • kabelme

      @ bignevermo – once again, half truths. That is what is entertaining about this. I have to continually fill you in. Typically, the missionary trains in the MTY for 2 weeks. And that time is actually getting shorter. Sorry, BH Roberts is one opinion in about 15 million. And if I dig far enough for you, I am sure your statement is half right. But there is enough information now to stick with my original point. I swam at Indiana. I heard about the water stuff, but there again, it is not ruled by Satan. If that were the case, then all Jet Skiing at Bear Lake would be prohibited. So the context of the commandment to the missionaries is something entirely different.

      It has been interesting conversation. Enjoy your journey in life.

      September 25, 2012 at 12:58 am |
    • kabelme

      and one last thing (two can play that game). Joseph Smith originally applied for the publishing permit in New York as a translator. But the state required an author in the application, so he put his name. It is that simple. He was not claiming anything.

      September 25, 2012 at 1:01 am |
    • bignevermo

      Kabelme...from the MTC site:"The MTC curriculum consists of up to 12 weeks of studying doctrine, learning to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ effectively, and developing excellent communication skills. When missionaries are called to serve in foreign lands, their training also includes learning a new language. "

      so if it half truths...it is coming from the MTC and the official LDS site sir!

      and if you swam at Indiana...you were among the best in the country...I played H2o polo with Billy Burrell...an All American from Indiana...also swam with Jesse Vassallo...he was a bad mamma jamma...I remember the way he started on the blocks and the dive at the start is the precursor to how they start on the blocks today(one foot in front of the other and the steep dive and dolphin kick at the start of the free races)...have a nice day! :)

      September 27, 2012 at 11:01 am |
  13. FactsRBad

    There is a perfectly good reason that the LDS Church wants him out – we "works in science and technology" – science is the kryptonite of religion.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
    • kabelme

      you are seriously misinformed about the church's views on science. Truth has no reason to fear science. Eventually they will meet. The LDS doctrine is really the only church I now of who believes this.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • bignevermo

      Kabelme...that is a highly misinformed statement...the RCC has a The Pontifical Academy of Sciences...LDS not so much...the BoM has no scientific evidence as to its truth...in fact so much so that the Smithsonian actually has said this:Critics and non-Mormon archaeologists disagree with these conclusions, arguing that the Book of Mormon mentions several animals, plants, and technologies that are not substantiated by the archaeological record between 3100 BC to 400 AD in America,[3][4][5][6] including the ass,[7] cattle,[8] horses, oxen, domesticated sheep, swine,[9] goats,[10] elephants,[11] wheat,[12] barley,[13] silk,[14] steel,[15] swords,[11] scimitars, chariots[16] and other elements. Further, scientists note that genetic studies show that Amerind peoples are most likely of Asiatic origin,[17] which appears to conflict with the Book of Mormon account of their ancestry
      the truth shall set ya free Kabelme!! :)

      September 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm |
    • barlow23

      bignevermo sounds like a cultist leader trying to pursuade others to believe his (or her) beliefs, and can back up all arguments by copying and pasting definitions from dictionaries and anti-mormon bloggers...where can we sign up to learn more from you bignevermo cultist leader?

      September 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • bignevermo

      well I dont follow anyone's blog...but yeah i do know how to read and i have done years of it on your church sir/madam...I was an investigator. You just keep up with the disparaging remarks and quips...I will keep people here informed...with all the milk AND the meat that you religion has to offer...I see you still cant come up with any cogent rebuttal. Typical...sad but true!
      just educating!

      September 24, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
    • barlow23

      I cede my fight as I must admit I just had to look up the word "cogent". big is right, the mormon church is false. big will continue to research and study diligently a church he/she believes is false (wait, why are you spending so much time doing that?) so that others like me can finally understand that we in fact do follow a 16 million member cult. well done big, well done.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:38 pm |
    • kabelme

      @ bignevermo – way to copy/paste Wikipedia. It is nice to throw out little quips like the "archeological record', which is a continually changing thing. What we think we know today, changes tomorrow. That is the nature of science. There are all sorts of things in the Book of Mormon which can not be explained, especially the detailed descriptions of the Bedouin societies, the language of names, both Egyptian, Hebrew, etc, the geographic locals of the middle east, all of which were unknown in upstate New York during 1820. You see, members of the church fully recognize that there are all sorts of questions which the Book of Mormon raises, some which appear to challenge the faith, and some to simply confound all sides. I am surprised that your single source of Wikipedia can not find an actual author to the book. Clearly a 14 year old did not write it. You find that one out, then write back.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • kabelme

      @ bignevermo – not sure if you have kids, but if you do, you probably had them read Dr Seuss before Melville, correct? So you have to define a starting point, and you build from there. Some investigators come into a discussion with no pretenses at all. They are just interested to learn, so you start from the beginning. So investigators have read quite a bit, so you adapt to the level of your audience. this is not "to avoid or obfuscate the truth" as you suggest, but to go deeper into subjects that the audience requires. I have no issues talking about the actual doctrines of the church. They are what they are and I make no apologies for any of it. The examples you brought up are actually interesting. I was a national level swimmer and served in the Caribbean. So yes, I explained many times why I did not go into the water (except to baptize of course, right in the ocean, it was awesome). Your comment about Satan is not really correct. As far as mother's not being able to go to a wedding, I am a convert myself, and my own mother, father, aunt, brother did not attend the ceremony in the temple. However, tastefully done, the ceremony afterwards completely included them. So even though what you say may be right on some level, it is not quite as you say. The issue for blacks was and is very real there as well. So, if asked, and many times there would be people such as yourself, making sure the topic was brought up, I would dive into it. I would also be very honest and say that I did not understand it all. But since this is a spiritual teaching, I simply left it up to the investigator to see if they cared or not. Most did not. Some did. I'll tell you that I was never deceiving, allusive, or obfuscating about the church. But I also did not package my comments in the derogatory sense that you might.

      September 24, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
  14. Willie12345

    Let's also include all the Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc that are excommunicated from their churches. Or the guys kicked out of the Moose or Odd Fellows. Who really cares ?

    September 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • barbraS

      But Mormons excommunicate with much more frequency than the others and for things like telling the truth. I know a number of BYU researchers that were excommunicated for refusing to change their findings to suit the church's story that they like to give. Mormon bloggers the same.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • barlow23

      Don't generalize BarbraS, back up your argument with something factual. Please name these supposed professors and the "truths" the Mormon church excomunicated them for wanted to publish.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:26 pm |
    • kabelme

      barbraS, that was so long ago, you can make it sound like it was yesterday. And the off cuff comment about excommunicating more than others? Where on earth would you find stats like this

      September 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm |
    • bignevermo

      Barlo and kabelmme...this is TOO easy! :The September Six were six members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who were excommunicated or disfellowshipped by the LDS Church (also known as the Mormons) in September 1993 for publishing scholarly work on Mormonism, or critiquing Church doctrine or leadership. The term "September Six" was coined by The Salt Lake Tribune and the term was used in the media and subsequent discussion. The LDS Church's action was referred to by liberals as evidence of an anti-intellectual posture on the part of LDS leadership.[1][2]
      That is just one example I have it.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:55 pm |
    • kabelme

      bignevermo, nice copy and paste.1993 was 20 years ago now. I wasn't suggesting it doesn't happen. It certainly does. But my point was that it is impossible to determine if the LDS church does this more than others, as suggested by barbraS. All organizations draw their lines somewhere and they all will exercise their right to restrict membership in whatever manner they want.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • bignevermo

      well you are correct about one thing...it would be hard to prove who ex's more LDS or the RCC,,,but here is another c/p :More recent excommunicants over intellectual issues include David Wright (1994, for articles questioning the historicity of the Book of Mormon, Michael Barrett (1994, for writing letters to correct news stories about Mormonism), Brent Metcalfe (1994, for the anthology "New Approaches to the Book of Mormon"), Janice Allred (1997, for submitting theological papers to a Sunstone symposium), Margaret Toscano (2000, for writing on feminist issues), Shane LeGrande Whelan (2002, for his book, "More Than One: Plural Marriage, A Sacred Heritage, A Promise For Tomorrow").
      Plus Grant Palmer in 2004...these are just people we know about...
      Also why do you have a problem of my c/p? I could write in my own words...but citing sources is so much better...dont you agree? :)
      just cuttin and pasting!

      September 24, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
  15. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    Do stay on and fight, David Twede. We need for the gloves to come off so that we can see what the huge Mormon establishment reveals about its true nature.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • barlow23

      Yes, what juicy details must surely reside behind the cloak of the huge Mormon establishment...(someone really smart insert magic underwear joke here)...they must be hiding something!! They send out 50,000 missionaries in white shirts and ties with nametags that spend 2 years begging and pleading people to listen to their message, every chapel (not temple, there is a difference) has a sign on it saying "visitors welcome", there is a website explaining the doctrine....THEY ARE SO SECRETIVE AND ARE HIDING SO MUCH!!

      September 24, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      What's interesting is not what they might be hiding in their secret underwear, but they reveal about what they are willing to do. Even they may not know until its done.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • Dave

      I don't know if this is true. But somebody told me that Joseph Smith was high on peyote when he saw the golded tablets

      September 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • barlow23

      Dave, are you high on peyote now? Because if you don't know if it was true then why post it, you goofball.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:07 pm |
  16. El Flaco

    Apparently God (Mormon Version) want's Romney to be President.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
    • barlow23

      Yep, same way He wanted Harry Reid to be the senate majority leader. The Mormon God rocks.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
  17. kabelme

    Twede wants to be a member to give himself credibility, which is a stupid reason to want to be a member of a church. And the church is not going to excommunicate based on stupidity. But the church will excommunicate if somebody is intentionally trying to cause damage to the church. If he is causing damage, why does he want to be a member. Another pointless press release by CNN

    September 24, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
  18. Oneforall777

    Mr. Twede, if you are a Mormon, then please be loyal to your oganization, be involved and stop talking about it, but live it, your faith that is. Truly you sound very confused and blogging about Mormonism isn't going to get you less confused, you really are not in a position, respectfully, to blog amount Mormons unless you are a Mormon, please decide what you are.

    I am not a Mormon but I am a Christian and I think I understand what you are trying to achieve here, but truly this is not the way to get closer to your faith, faith is a quiet process, a meditation if you like, with our Maker, our Creator., understanding through his Word, who he is, you must obey him, that is faith in Him. By contrast, discussing in a blog what others are doing in church, blogging about "your better perspective of your Church" is simply using a public forum to question your belief and in turn publicly bringing shame to God. The Elders of the Chuch are quite right in discipling you, Apostacy is on the rise and they must be sure where you stand. From this article it does not appear you stand for God and Christ, sorry, you are perhaps too 'self-involved and not enough 'God-involved'.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • Bob

      That's right Person Who Is Most Definitely Not a Mormon,

      Why can't this person just listen to his divinely appointed leaders and shine his light upon his testimony without a shadow of a doubt. I too, am not a member of the LDS faith nor do I really know what all of this stuff is about, gosh darn it, but be assured that if I were hypothetically a member, I would stop criticizing my divinely appointed spiritual leaders and trust that God had a plan for me to make it all work out.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • texcal68

      The Mormon Church was founded by a fraud. A man brought up on fraud charges eighteen months before he started the mythology that we know as the The Church of Latter Day Saints today. When broke out jail and murdered he had more that thirty wife, which was unknown to his followers. In addition, he was a regular customer at the local cat houses.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • Ian

      Why ask him to decide what he is? He already has! If you read the story you would know that he calls himself a mormon.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
    • barlow23

      Texcal66, you appear to know so much more about the church than its members do...where did you get all of this knowledge? And why do you can't you spell very well? And what is a cathouse? I think we can all learn so much from you professor.

      September 24, 2012 at 6:10 pm |
  19. Bob, NY

    I have seen a positive impact on a few of my family members that have switched from traditional Christian teachings, to LDS teachings. While they all will vote for the candidate that belongs to their faith, I hope it was a choice of their own making, instead of a propaganda decision from their church leaders. The reason for separation of church and state was to avoid persecution from differing view points from one group and another.
    I have yet to find any religion that doesn't think that they are the only one"s fit to go to heaven and the rest of us ....? This kind of thought process is what allows us to be OK with hating the "others". BTW: Jihad's the same principle.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • kabelme

      Bob, Harry Reid and Mitt Romney are both Mormons. The LDS church could care less. The church does not take political sides, and announces that every year at election time. The members on the other hand, are allowed to vote their conscience and enter the political process. Most people confuse the churches actual doctrine and policies with the actions of the member. Unfortunately, these do not always reconcile well together, which is an issue for all religions and organizations

      September 24, 2012 at 5:21 pm |
    • Bob, NY

      @kabelme, Thanks, I hope you're right. I'd like to think that mankind was given a brain for some useful purpose.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • Roger

      I think the only religion that says that you don't have to follow, but can still be in Heaven is Hinduism. In fact, it says that you can be in heaven even if you are an atheist. You can be with God via good Karma. I was kind of surprised by that even though I believe in that as I don’t think if God exists, he/she won’t be an egomaniac like we humans are.

      September 24, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @kabelme

      " The LDS church could care less. "

      So, you believe that the top dudes at the LDS church..."could care less" ? I'm not so sure about that.

      " The church does not take political sides, and announces that every year at election time. "

      Depends what you mean by "political sides" yes ?

      Peace...

      September 24, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • conrad

      Roger,

      In fact, some religions such as Buddhism recognize that spiritual awakening is being freed from the haunting bondage of the ego. You may be on to something ...

      September 24, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
  20. hippypoet

    cult~ duh!

    if you didn't see this coming then you truly are blind. they don't call it blind faith for nothing i guess.

    September 24, 2012 at 5:07 pm |
    • David

      Every religion is a cult by definition.

      Definition: A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

      September 24, 2012 at 8:13 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.