By Tomeka Jones, CNN
Dozens of faith leaders from across the country recently gathered to attend The Stand Up Education Policy Summit in Atlanta, Georgia, to talk education reform. The daylong conference was hosted by education organzations StudentsFirst, founded by Michelle Rhee and Stand Up, led by her husband, Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson. The purpose of the event was a call for action for clergy to take part in the national movement to transform public education.
CNN spoke with some prominent religious leaders in the African-American community to find out their views on the role faith institutions should play in public education.
Rev. DeForest Soaries, Jr., a senior pastor at First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens in Somerset, New Jersey, laid out what he believes are three roles of the church in education.
Get educated in bringing jewish people back too Isreal christians.
It's "TO", not "TOO." And if you can't even spell "Israel." you're not qualified to discuss it.
if religion had it's way, we'd still be teaching that the earth is flat. education and religion is fire and water.
It's getting better, Booty. I think the ultra religious are on the way out. Just like these idiot gay conversion therapy people. Thankfully "California has become the first state in the nation to outlaw the practice of reparative therapies, sometimes called gay conversion therapies." (from cnn article, link on page 1). Yeay. There's some progress. And the Rummy pirate ship is sinking FAST! Such good news. I need to make sure it gets applied directly to the forehead of that idiot 'truth be told' in the AM. lol. I hear a mutiny on the Rummy pirate ship!!!! lol.
Please don't insult pirates by comparing them to Romney.
Oh, you're right! lol. I didn't think about that. Dreamy Orlando Bloom might be reading this.
Sorry pirates! lol.
Well I don't really know any good-looking pirates. Oh, but there's that quarterback for Tampa Bay – he's a looker.
Hopefully he's not a religious tardo, though. lol
OK the churd wants to play by the book ... where is it in the Book that the churd must be involved in though control ?
Are you channeling stupid today? Just let me know so I can write it down in my official boobeh report. It's really important.
Is Students First a tax-dodge "non-profit" set up by Mayor Kevin Johnson, ex-NBA star and his wife?. Investments total $619,850, donations are about ~$4.5 million with ~$1.5 million going to advertising and promotion. (guidestar.org, IRS Form 990 for 2010). "Non-profits" pay no tax on dividends, interest or capital gains on their investments.
Do you think maybe Kevin is hiding some of his basketball earnings in this group? Hmmm????
religion and education just sounds like fascism and indoctrination
We certainly need more religiously motivated people on School Boards around the country – just look at the wonders that accomplished in Texas, Kansas, and Dover, PA. *end sarcasm*
Sacramento needs a new mayor.
Fyck First Amendment.. We need church and state!
yes! theocracies around the world have proven to be good governments for the people! LOL!!!!!
Prayers works ! If students are FORCED to pray ALL day, they won't have time to think and make new troubles. I want priests to replace agnostic teachers NOW ! They don't need no fr'ggin education, all they need are brain control !!!!
Faith-based anything has absolutely no role in public education, except that it might exist in the mythology or history section(s) of the library for reference on at at-will basis.
I'm canceling your library card for cognitive violations of all common sense.
iIf the "clergy" want to not pay taxes, stay out of it. Other wise PAY mf's
no PAY no PLAY in school; keep the 'playin' in the churd please ;-)
xactly. they want prayer in public school and the 10 commandments in our courtrooms. they have lobbyists all throughout DC, but they don't want to pay taxes?
nope to nope
religion is exactly what we DON'T need in school. we need our children to use their brains - not turn them off.
Actually I would rather have our kids happy than depressed as most atheists are!! I have never met a happy nice loving atheist
you have now. i'm a very happy and loving atheist. i want to save you from the cult of christianity. i love you, my deluded christian brothers and sisters.
I'm sorry, "Rebel4Christ", but your assertions regarding atheism and depression are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
Rebel...there are lots of happy loving atheists. Perhaps you are too much of a jeebus sucking punk to see it
You have never met an atheist.
In your last post, if you replace the word religion for the word science, it would make some sense. "Debates in religious circles turn personal and have for centuries." Right on brother or is it father?
The sooner prayer and Bible are returned to prominence in public education the sooner America will begin to recapture moral dignity.
....and by 'moral dignity', I mean like in the 50's when bitches stayed in the kitchen like they should.
and NO HOMOS
I never demean women and by no ho mos it would mean no ho mos stealing my name because they are not intelligent enough to think up one for themselves.
You are truly a sick idiot. Of course we will uphold laws that protect against that.
Just say what you really mean, coward. The two posts under your original post are likely a more accurate rep of your idiot thinking.
what the hell does that even mean...creepy weirdo
yes, the moral dignity of the bible that tells women that are r.aped they must marry their r.apist. the moral dignity of the bible says to kill g.ays, disobedient children, non-virgin brides and anyone working on sunday. the moral dignity of god who told abraham to murder his own child to prove his devotion. the moral dignity of laying down rules for selling your own daughter into slavery. yes, the bible is just full of moral dignity. LOL.
Already did . The moron who stole the name is as responsible for its own stupidity as you are for yours.
So you're insisting that your ambiguous statement was you saying what you really mean? You didn't actually say anything. But the implication is clear. It's a dishonest dodge. What, exactly, is YOUR version of 'moral dignity'? Just say it.
How many times does rootyfink have to be told it knows nothing about the Bible? The ra pe you are referring to in the original Hebrew is by a consented act, not a ra pe at all. If you can be proven an idiot so easily you should leave your opinion unpublished.
Sounds like old lady speak for 'the way I think things should be'. Lots of immoral things in the bible made to look like moral law, no way, not going back to the dark ages!
And by biblical truth you mean...traditional marriage (which often included several wives, etc), slavery, killing the unrighteous, all that? Or just parts of it? Again, you can't answer, because you likely have no idea what you even mean or believe. You wouldn't know 'moral dignity' if it bit you in the ass, would you.
every time you post you show you know nothing about the book you supposedly live your life by.
"The ra pe you are referring to in the original Hebrew is by a consented act, not a ra pe at all."
If a man comes upon a virgin who is not engaged and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are discovered, the man who lay with her shall pay the girl’s father fifty [shekels of] silver, and she shall be his wife. Because he has violated her, he can never have the right to divorce her.—Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Don't feed the silly fundie troll.
The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:
"truth be told" degnerates to:
"Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degnerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"nope" degnerates to:
"2357" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"fred" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
"pervert alert" or "...." degenerates to:
and many other names, but of course I prefer to refer to this extremely h0mophobic nutjob as
the disgruntled ex Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. "writer".
The sooner we return to Puritanical ways, the sooner we can start killing some more "witches" by hanging, burning, stone pressing, etc. What joy!
Yes, lets also bring in the Torah, the Quran, the Vedas, Gita, the Buddhist prayers, works of Tao, etc as well. Or do you want preferential treatment to ONLY your religion?
Also, it is funny that TBT could only find a quippy response (flimsy one at that) to one point out of like seven or eight Booty made.. geez that means he accepts all the others are true then!
There is only one true faith and thousands of fakes. Christ is the way the Truth and the life, others can adapt to the Truth.
I think I'm having 'whiplash/deja vu' ... didn't we just cover this same basic argument with -fred on some other article/page ? I'm getting lost keeping track of all the Christians wanting to totally obliterate the consti tution.
Yikes !!! 8O
Like I was trying to make fundie fred understand in the other thread, Every other religion have the same outlook about yours too.. that theirs is the only correct way and you are going to burn in freaking hell for like a freaking long time for following the wrong freaking god.. If you do not understand that point, it is useless to talk about anything else with you.
@peace.. Yikes is true!!.. I don't even know why I still try to make them see a simple point.. am I speaking the same language that I think I am speaking?
@G. Zeus Kreiszchte
"Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere is having a good time." – H. L. Mencken
Now that's funny... I was going to ask you if I was making sense over on the other argument with -fred.
But, after reading your post, Hawaii's, and mine... I think my sanity is still intact.
Although, debating with the 'fundies' over the last 3-4 years on this blog just 'may' be getting to me. I may need to take an extended leave from the craziness ! :D
Truth be told you are a beast!! Keep going hard for God!
Don't worry truth be told – prayer will be returned to schools in your next lifetime.
Until then shut the hell up, you wrench. (that's a wench, a witch, and a wretch lol)
Hoooeee, that Rummy dingo dong sure is sinking fast! Thank Joe Pesci and Greyhound!!
Rebel4Christ: "Truth be told you are a beast!! Keep going hard for God!"
Why not, god is getting hard for you!
come on, tbt and rebel4christ...what is keeping you here? jeebus is hard for your silky mouths....and kneeling before his second coming is only a tall building, or a speeding bus away. jeebus is waiting....
Yes, let us all follow the words of the bible, the most violent book in history where masses of people were killed and babies slaughtered, orders of the christian god.
FSM sometimes lets me be on top.
Please send me some leprechaun gold.
Prayer changes things
Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.
An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.
The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs!
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
actions cause change; prayer wastes valuable time.
so does thought
Thought generally has an identifiable outcome. Prayer has no verifiable outcome. Or did I miss the rain in Texas when Perry had his public prayers?
bunny,, rabbit, lapin, conejo, Confess with poopies from butt before you you profess to ecotropes, if not sure, keep your black jelly beans, absurdity to cage. palet cleanser, cute bunny noses.
God's plan" is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents.
For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.
You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example;
Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circ.u.mstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
Take a moment and think about this, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God has pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.
If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not? What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion.
If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.
If God does not intend for us to perform abortions, is it then wrong that God has a plan? If God has a plan, is he not the direct cause of every abortion? Simply think it through, and you will begin to see the problems in this proposition.
Think about Adolph Hit.ler. He was evil incarnate, and Hit.ler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hit.ler is part of God's Plan." Think about this:
He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.
If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hit.ler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.
Now let's imagine that you say a prayer in this sort of universe. What difference does it make? God has his plan, and that plan is running down its track like a freight train. If God has a plan, then everyone who died in the Holocaust died for a reason. They had to die, and each death had meaning. Therefore, Holocaust victims could pray all day, and they would still die. The idea of a "plan" makes the idea of a "prayer-answering relationship with God" a contradiction, doesn't it? Yet Christians seem to attach themselves to both ideas, despite the irresolvable problem the two ideas create.
Think about what God's plan means for you personally. If the plan happens to say that you will get hit by a bus tomorrow, or that terrorists will blow you up, or that you will be shot in the head four times, then that's what will happen. It would be the same with any disease. If you contract cancer this afternoon and die three months later, that is God's plan for you. Praying to cure the cancer is a waste. God plans for you to die, so you will die. He has pre-programmed the exact time of your death. There is nothing you can do to change the plan - no amount of prayer will help - because your death will have meaning and your death will cause side-effects that are also part of the plan.
Who will you marry? You actually have no choice in the matter. God has pre-planned your wedding in minute detail. "God knew that those two individuals [your parents] possessed exactly the right genetic makeup to create the custom 'you' that he had in mind. They had the DNA God wanted to make you." Therefore, your spouse was pre-chosen by God for you so that you would create the children who are a part of his plan. You also have no choice in the number of children you will have - God has pre-planned their births.
In addition, this sort of universe means that Hit.ler is blameless. Hit.ler was not "evil," because Hit.ler had no free will at all. Hit.ler was simply an actor forced to play his role in God's plan. God planned for millions of people to die in the Holocaust - he planned their deaths in exact detail. Hit.ler had to kill those people. Hit.ler was God's puppet in making that those millions of deaths happen right on schedule.
In the same way then, every murderer is blameless. Since God has planned each of our deaths in exact detail, murderers are actually essential to God's plan. Why do we punish them? We should be rewarding them for doing their God-planned duty. What if you get r.a.p.ed tomorrow and get pregnant? God did that because he planned the exact time of that child's birth and death. God actually pre-planned your r.a.p.e, and the rapist was God's puppet. Rather than hating the rapist, we should celebrate God's plan.
Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hit.ler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hit.ler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."
If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.
@24 Hour Crisis Center
Nice post. Nothing but *crickets* ... not surprised.
I don't even know what's goin' on.
Just pass the dutchie on the left hand side. I don't know what to do. We make a fine pair. *puff*
The science of Noah's ark:
Noah was instructed to build an ark 440 feet long. That is the size of a WWII Liberty Ship. Based on the number of hours it took to build a Liberty ship, it would have taken them 157 years, working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. And that does not include the time it take to get cut down the enormous number of trees, shape them, and transport them to the building site – that would take at least another century for the 4 people (Noah and his sons) involved to do.
Four people, 440 foot boat, have to do everything. The science is obvious.
But there's more: No attempt to make a wooden ship larger than a 300' was particularly successful. Wood is not strong enough in those sizes, and the best boatbuilders, even using steel reinforcing structures, only created dangerous, unseaworthy craft, and NONE as large as 440'. The ark would have broken up.
And there is more: How did the animals get there? There are species of non-bacterial land species on earth. Did Noah go all over the world to collect every one? How did he do it? How did he create climate controlled habitats to transport and keep the creatures until the rain came, then had those climate controlled conditions aboard the ark?
A Liberty Ship-sized ark is way too big for 4 guys to build out of wood, but it is also way too small to hold 2 of every land species on earth, much less the food to sustain them. And how were 8 people able to feed and clean that many creatures?
And, when the flood ended and they reached land, how did the creatures get back to their homes? What did the carnivores eat – if there are two squirrels, they get eaten and then the coyotes starve, and so forth. There would be a mass extinction.
And if there are only Noah, his sons, and their wives, where did the black people come from, and the Asians, and all the other races?
Noah's Ark is not only totally impossible in so many levels, it's downright absurd. Religious people want this absurdity taught as truth in school.
Religion has no place in education.
Left this out: There are estimated to be 3,000,000 non-bacterial land species that Noah would have to have aboard.
Well, Noah only needed a pair of weasels. Speciation by PE filled in all the gaps over time, with the help of God, of course.
Also, regarding the Ark. Antediluvian wood had much high strength under all kinds of load than does the weak stuff of today. It must have or else the Bible is false (reductio ad absurdum).
hinduism,, hypothesis, hypothesis, hypothesis, Confess with proof from heart before you you profess to other's, if not sure, keep your hinduism, absurdity to yourself. hindu's, loud mouth's.
In reality, if Noah only took two weasels eventually all the weasels would be inbred and eventually die leaving no weasels.
Oh yeah?!?! When I flooded the world, I had a cool red and gold Cigarette Boat with flames painted on the side. It was packed full of the most righteous morally-ambiguous clothing-optional bikini hotties on the planet, and we have a full bar and the best beer on tap and awesome pizza!
We used to go blast cirlces aroung Noah's ark, which really stunk by the way, mooning them and laughing. Then it was whipped cream orgy time as we roared off.
Good times. Good times.
Christians just don't know how to do a party boat.
A Slurpee Apocalypse sounds delicious. But you shall always be below His Most Noodliness.
FSM sometimes lets me be on top. He understands kink.
there are unicorns, dragons, satyrs and c.ockatrice in the bible. i wonder if 2 of each were also on the ark... i would imagine dragons would take up a lot of room. wow, turning your brain off is fun!
I want to be on a party boat, a big one with railings so I don't fall off. Please send me some leprechaun gold so I can buy one.
But wasn't it so considerate of Noah to drop Polar Bears off in the Arctic and Emperior Penguins off at the Antarctic!
"I got Your green alligators and long-necked geese, Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees. Some cats and rats and elephants, but Lord, I'm so forlorn, I just can't see no unicorns!"
And Noah looked out through the driving rain, Them unicorns were hiding, playing silly games. They were kickin' and splashin' while the rain was pourin', Oh, them silly unicorns!
There was green alligators and long-necked geese, Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees. Noah cried, "Close the door 'cause the rain is just pourin', And we just cannot wait for no unicorn!"
The ark started moving, and it drifted with the tide, And them unicorns looked up from the rocks and they cried. And the waters come down and sort of floated them away, That's why you never seen a unicorn to this very day.
But you'll see green alligators and long-necked geese, Some humpty backed camels and some chimpanzees. Some cats and rats and elephants, but sure as you're born, You're never gonna see no unicorn!
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.