By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor
(CNN)– Was it a snub or a misunderstanding?
On Thursday the Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco held its installation service for new Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone in front of 2,000 invited guests at the Cathedral of St. Mary of the Assumption. A large delegation of Catholic clergy and faith leaders from around the city were there to join the service, processing in.
But those seated in the cathedral noticed one participant missing, Episcopal Bishop Marc Andrus, the local Episcopal bishop.
Pacific Church News, the news service from the Episcopal Diocese of California, reported that Andrus "was not allowed to be seated" and "detained by an usher" in the basement until he left shortly before the service began.
Andrus posted what he dubbed as a "clarification" on his blog just after midnight on Friday morning. Andrus wrote he was dropped off at 1:30 p.m. and it took him 10 minutes to get through a crowd of protesters.
Gay marriage supporters in San Francisco protested Cordileone's installation because of his strong support for Proposition 8 in California and his vocal support for traditional marriage, the formal teaching of the Catholic church, while he was the bishop in neighboring Oakland, California.
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Andrus writes in his post that he was told by the archdiocese to be there by 1:45 p.m. Upon arrival, he identified himself and was escorted to the basement where he saw the local head of the Greek Orthodox church and his delegation.
After chatting briefly with the Greek Orthodox group he writes, "An archdiocesan employee attempted to escort me upstairs with the Greek Orthodox group, but was stopped from doing so by the employee to whom I had first identified myself. This person, who appeared to be in a superior role, instructed another employee to stand with me."
By then Andrus writes no one else was in the basement but he and the employee from the archdiocese. The service got under way and Andrus writes, "I said to the employee, 'I think I understand, and feel I should leave.' Her response was, 'Thank you for being understanding.' "
After that brief conversation Andrus said he headed for the door.
"No attempt was ever made to explain the delay or any process for seating. I arrived early, before the time given my assistant, and waited to leave until after the service had begun," he writes.
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A few days before the installation Andrus posted a letter to the Diocese of California. In the letter Andrus noted his opposition to Proposition 8 and support of same-sex marriage but pointed to the long Christian tradition of Christians disagreeing on some issues yet still working together on others. He mentioned issues of poverty and immigration as areas where the two Christian groups had partnered recently in the city.
Andrus also included this line, "Some Catholics may find themselves less at home with Salvatore Cordileone’s installation and they may come to The Episcopal Church. We should welcome them as our sisters and brothers."
That line could be viewed as either a subtle jab over a contentious issue or a reminder to parishioners over an issue already unfolding.
"We were certainly aware of his letter," George Wesolek, the director of communications and public policy for the Archdiocese of San Francisco told CNN in an e-mail.
"Interfaith relations in San Francisco have always been cordial, working on issues that we agree on (which are many: immigration, global poverty, affordable housing etc.), but disagreeing on other issues – abortion, marriage, etc," he continued.
Wesolek stressed, "We would never exclude an invited guest and collaborator on certain issues of importance to the whole community," when asked about Andrus not being seated and if the letter played any part in the incident.
"Bishop Andrus, our guest, arrived before the 2 p.m. start, but after the interfaith delegation was seated in the front pews of the Cathedral. He was asked to wait in the conference rooms below the Cathedral which was the staging area for the 40 bishops, 2 Cardinals and some 250 priests," Wesolek said.
"A staff member was trying to determine how and when to seat him in a way that was appropriate and would not cause any disruption. When they came to get him and seat him, he had left," Wesolek said explaining what had happened as he saw it.
"There was never any intention to exclude the Bishop. We are expressing our apologies to him for the obvious misunderstanding," he said.
Prayer changes things,
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
hat, can you try to explain how a carnally determined individual such as yourself thinks you know what to discuss when it comes to spiritual matters?
Didn't work to well for Howard Camping
Howard like you thought more of himself than he ought.
Prayer really changes things
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
So how come the Pope trusts prayer so much that he rides around in a bullet proof pope-mobile?
The bullet proof vehicle was inst ituted after an assassination attempt on the life of John Paul II. Not by papal order but by those who felt to protect their Pope. Presidents and other world leaders tightened security measures after the assassination of John Kennedy, fools like you make such measures necessary.
Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, against the Roman Catholic Church
or "On Ecclesiastical Principalities"
(Antimachiavel, Chapter 11, by Frederic the Great, King of Pruzzia, Promoter of Enlightenment)
(the book “Antimachiavel” refers to Machiavelli’s book “The Prince”, and is a refutation of “The Prince”)
I have always found it very strange that these who call themselves successors of the apostles, I mean some poor men – preachers of humility and repentance – should possess great wealth, wallow in luxery, and fill posts more proper to satisfy the vanity of the age and the ostentation of the great than to occupy men who must meditate on the nothingness of human life and on the quest for salvation. However, the clergy of the Roman church is extremly rich. Bishops hold the rank of sovereign princes, and the temporal and spiritual power of the first bishop of Christendom renders him somehow the arbiter of kings(“arbiter of kings” means that the pope was higher than the Emperor, and thus the actual temporal ruler of the whole world) and the fourth person of the Divinity (“person of Divinity” means that the pope really presumes to be on a level with God).
(Catholic) Clergymen and theologians separate the attributes of the body from those of the soul more scrupulously than anyone else, but their arguments might better be applied to the subject of their ambition. You, they could be told, whose ministry is restricted to the spiritual realm, how can you have so grossly confused it with the temporal? You who so subtly employ the distinguo when it comes to the mind, which you do not understand at all, and to matter, which you understand very little, how does it come that you reject these distinctions when it comes to your interest? It is because these gentlemen worry very little about the unintelligible jargon that they spout out and very much about the great revenues that they take in. It is because their fashion of reasoning must conform to orthodoxy and their fashion of action to their passions; and that the tangible objects of nature are as dominant over their intellect as the real happiness of this life is over the ideal happiness of the next world.
The astonishing power of clergymen as well as everything which regards their temporal government is the subject of this chapter.
Machiavelli finds that ecclesiastical princes are very happy because they have to fear neither the rebellion of their subjects nor the ambition of their neighbours (neighbouring princes). The respectable and impressive name of the Divinity shelters them from whatever could oppose their interest and greatness. The princes who attack them would fear the fate of Ti-tans (Ti-tans were thrown into the Tartarus, a kind of abyss, by the Greek god Zeus; the Catholic equivalent of Zeus is the pope) and the people who disobey them that of the sacrilegious. The pious policy of this kind of sovereign aims at persuading the world of what Despreaux expresses so well in the verse:
“He who loves not Cotin loves neither God nor king.”
What is strange is that these princes find enough credulous dupes who adhere blindly to whatever they want them to believe. It is certain, however, that no country swarms with more beggars than one run by priests. There one can see a touching picture of all human miseries, not of those poor attrackted by the alms of sovereigns, or of those insects who attach themselves to the reach, but of starving beggars deprived of necessities by the “charity” of their bishops so as to prevent them from becoming corrupted by affluence.
It is undoubtly upon the laws of Sparta where money was prohibited that the principles of these ecclesiastical governments are founded, with the difference that the prelates reserve for themselves the use of the wealth of which they most devoutly despoil their subjects. Blessed, they say, are the poor, for they shall inherit the kingdom of heaven! And since they want everybody to be saved, they make sure that everyone is poor. Oh, ecclesiastical piety, is there anything that escapes your wise foresight?
Nothing should be more edifying than the story of the heads of the church or vicars of Jesus Christ. One expects to find examples of irreproachable und saintly morals there. However, it is just the contrary. There are only obscenities, abominations, and sources of scandal; and one cannot read the lifes of the popes without detesting their cruelty and perfidy.
One sees there their immense ambition to augment their temporal power, their sordid avarice in transfering great wealth unjustly and dishonestly to their families in order to enrich their nephews, mistresses, or bast-ards.
Those who reflect insufficiently find it peculiar that people suffer the oppression of this kind of sovereign with docility and patience, that they do not open their eyes to the vices and excesses of the clergymen who degrade them, and that they endure from a head that is shorn what they wold not suffer from a head crowned with laurels. This phenomenon appears less strange to those who know the power of supersti-tion upon idiots and of fanaticism on the human mind. They know that religion is an old machine that will never wear out and that has always been used to insure the fidelity of people and put a brake on the restlessness of human reason. They knew that error can blind the most penetrating men and that there is nothing more triumphant than the policy of those who put heaven and hell, God and the devil into play in order to attain their designs. Even the true religion itself, the purest source of all our good, is most deplorably abused and often becomes the origin and principle of all our misfortunes.
The author (Machiavelli) most judiciously notes what contributed to the elevation of the Holy See. Hee attributes it principally to the able conduct of Alexander VI, a pontiff who pushed cruelty to the extreme and who knew no justice but perfidy. One could not thus confuse the product of the ambition of this pontiff with the work of Divinity. Heaven could not have played any direct part in the elevation of this temporal greatness, which is only the work of a very vicious and depraved man. One could thus do no better than to distinguish carefully among clergy men betweeen the mark of God when they announce the divine orders and the corrupt man when they are thinking only of satisfying their passions.
The eulogy of Leo X concludes this chapter, but his eulogy doesn’t carry much wight since Machiavelli was the contemporary of this pope. Any praise by a subject to his master or by an author to a prince appears, what ever one may say, as very close to flattery. Our life can only be judged by posterity, which judges without passions or interest. Machiavelli should have been the last to make an attempt at flattery, for he was not a competent judge of true merit, not even knowing what virtue was; and I don’t know if it is better to have been praised than blamed by him. I leave this question for the reader to judge.
Intreseting that your two heros, Fredrick the Great and Bonhoeffer, were both g*ay and/or bi-se*xual isn't it?
Good post Rainer. It's the same old story, most carnally minded people insist on having riches and kingdoms while living on earth than the reward of the heavenly kingdom with Jesus.
Police say 34 year old Angelo Mendoza bit an eyeball out of his four year old son’s face and ate it.
The boy had numerous bites to his hands and his eyes were swollen shut. Doctors said the boy’s left eye and muscle were missing; his other eye is mutilated beyond repair.
Wow. Where is your God now?
I do believe that happened because the person followed your god Satan.
A South Carolina baby was brought into AnMed Health Hospital in Anderson, suffering from alleged neglect and illness. The baby was taken to the ER after a concerned party urged the baby’s mother, 20-year-old Michell Shontel Butler, to take action as the baby was sick. According a police report, that person, who was unnamed, gave the baby some Tylenol and noticed the baby tugging at his ears. Upon arrival to the emergency, nurses changed the baby’s diaper and noticed a few maggots falling out.
You've obviously been inspired to post obscure bible passages. The question is what was the inspiration? Weed? Wine? Women?
I notice Where isn't doing anything to stop his god Satan, no matter how horrific the outcomes. Here's a prime example what happens when fools don't stand for Jesus. Hating Jesus ensures Satan's evil flourishes.
Where is your God now? sssssSSSSSssss sssssssSSSSSSssssss
Same place yours is: nowhere.
To learn secret of hindu pagan bishop hat, please visit limitisthetruth.com and click on word Choice on website to open file.
No one is going to your dumb website and everyone thinks you're mental. Not to be a cyberbully or anything, but your posts are truly annoying and ignoring you doesn't seem to be the trick to making you go away.
I will go to your web site. To POOP on!
I am not the guest you wanted to invite am I?
I can fill this blog with the horror of this planet 24 hours a day.
Where is your God now?
Please continue with the gruesome stories. We need to be reminded of the horrors that everyone refuses to face.
I do not enjoy reading those horror stories, but they are happening every single day all over the world.
I would rather be well-informed than coddled with lies. And if I ever catch anyone doing these things you speak of, I intend to put a stop to their abuses of children with extreme prejudice.
We have met the enemy and he is us. The evil you enjoy so much is within your own evil heart. Do not blame God for your failings.
pogo is in the first grade.
Prayer changes things.
Hi Prayer bot.
I just finished praying that God will protect babies. I will check the news tomorrow.
The only prayer God will hear from you is the sinners prayer of repentance. After you are born again you will be talking about many things with God from a different perspective.
I talk with God every day.
I do not know who you talk to but unless you have been born into His family it is not God. And your vicious approach leads me to believe you have no real knowledge of who God is.
@truth be told
God allows all of these horrible things to happen. I think I know who he is.
TuBeTop, you wouldn't know a god if one bit you in the crotch. Twice.
I've been told that talking to myself is a sign of mental illness, but talking to someone who's imaginary is paranoid schizophrenia. Into which category do you fall?
Prayer changes things
@truth be told: "The only prayer God will hear from you is the sinners prayer of repentance. "
So the bible is lying in all those places where it says god will answer prayer?
It is estimated that 11 million people were killed during the Holocaust.
•The Nazis killed approximately two-thirds of all Jews living in Europe.
•An estimated 1.1 million children were murdered in the Holocaust.
That is million. Not tens, not hundreds, not thousands, not tens of thousands...million.
Those were murdered by atheists. Where was God ? Not interfering but receiving the innocent into the Eternal Kingdom and preparing a peoples to be reinstated in their own land.
He was in the hearts and minds of the Allied soldiers who won the war and freed the prisoners
Atheistic leaders killed nearly 100 million people(including their own!).
Where is the so-called "uptopia" that atheists desire yet atheists killed millions?
Shows how delusional atheists are.
@Where is your atheism now?
Who said I was an atheist?
Where was your God when the atheist regimes were comitting atrocities?
God is not responsible for your failings.
The Holocaust was ordered by Hitler-a CATHOLIC and tbt is a delusional retarded liar!
Hitler was a Catholic only in the sense Europe is Catholic. As an adult hitler lived acted and died as an atheist.
the entire German army was made up of christians
What do atheists whine about that offends you? Which atheists are you referring to?
A 3 year old boy, Noah Fake, is the victim of a senseless, violent attack at the hands of his mother. He was beaten repeatedly by his 26 year old mother and her 33 year old boyfriend for wetting his pants.
You really need to find another line of work. Different reading material. A new venue. Something to disengage you from the absolute dregs of humanity. There is no God that will ever set these things right. Neither can you set anything right by blaming the absence of God.
@Tom, Tom, the Other One
You are right, I can't do anything. This is real. This is what Christians embrace.
Christians believe that this is ok because the children will go to heaven.
Now you're just stupid
No one accepts such sins of people as OK. What kind of sicko uses such events to reinforce their hatred of God?
I don't hate God in the least. I am simply telling the story of what is OK with God. If it were not ok, He would not allow it. Simple.
If you disagree, then don't say I am being stupid. That is what appears to be the truth to me. Argue against it in sensible terms and convince me otherwise. I am always willing to listen to intelligent people.
Ok Speaking just from the perspective of Judeo Christian ethic, there isn't a single denomination that doesn't recognize the fall of man and the expression of sin through free will. Christ himself was crucified for the transgressions of people like you describe. No doctrine on earth proposes that God commands and ordains these atrocities so your supposition that He is somehow absent is a theological fallacy (that's a nice way of saying you're stupid). The question isn't where was God? The question is where were you? God has commisioned us to care for the least and the best you can do is point your finger because villains and reprobates reject his call and victimize others? There is no argument with you because you have no argument. You're just a troll.
You are incorrect.
God has a plan for each of us. He knows when you will be born and when you will die. He is therefore responsible for all death, murder and destruction for all of history including every abortion ever performed, every r.a.p.e, every murder, every miscarriage, every atrocity. He is perfect. He is omniscient. He is omnipotent. So how could this not be so?
This is what the Bible tells us. If this is so, then there can be no free will.
To not apply your sinful mind to God.
Billdeacons No doctrine on earth proposes that God commands and ordains these atrocities"
My goodness you're stupid. That or a liar
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
Only a true ignoramus or a deliberate agitator would post a portion of one verse frmo teh Bible and claim it supports a theology under which God is, what giving out orders for evil? Is that actually your proposal. It is ludicrous to the point not to be taken seriously. If you are sugeesting this as a kind of sport to antagonize then you are merely a juvenile imbecile, If you no it is not the case but are trying to cast doubt into people's minds then you are merely another example of the kind listed by Where now. If you are seeking an explaination of free will and evil under the Lordship of a God of unconditional love then go learn something before you post your ignorance on these boards. I suggest C. S. Lewis as a starting point as follows:
God created things which had free will. That means creatures which can go either wrong or right. Some people think they can imagine a creature which was free but had no possibility of going wrong; I cannot. If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata- of creatures that worked like machines- would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they must be free. – Mere Christianity
Smith told police that the infant, Ken Blackman Jr., started crying sometime during the night and that she put a blanket over his head and struck him the head multiple times to get him to stop. Miraculously, the infant survived the first attack but began crying again several hours later, so once again, Smith said she put a blanket over his head and hit him in the head several more times. When Smith woke up, the baby was dead, however, she decided to dress the baby and put him into a baby carrier on her chest. Smith reportedly walked around with the dead baby, went shopping and then went to a neighbors house all while carrying the dead baby. The neighbor called police after they noticed the baby was not breathing and spotted blood stains on his blanket.
17 month old toddler experienced violent head injuries caused by uncle; dies
Keep in mind, someone entrusted this baby’s uncle to watch him and considered him an appropriate babysitter for this child who he tortured and abused so badly, he died an agonizing death.
Wyrosdick said he got angry because the boy wouldn’t sit at the table. He shook him violently and put him back on the seat. The boy fell off, hitting his head on the coffee table.
Wyrosdick then shook the boy again and marched him to a door where the boy’s head struck a stair railing twice. Wyrosdick then shook the boy again and dropped him on the floor three times.
There comes a time where not even science can save you.
Where is your atheism now?
Do you have a point?
can't you feel the desperation? churches need to get butts in seats to keep the money flowing. soon they'll do anything.
Can't you feel how desperate atheists are?
I'm still waiting for your point.
What points to the so-called "logical atheists" have that does not involve constant whinning about everything?
Try writing that again, but this time coherently.
well i guess you have us there, supra genius. No one in the world aside from atheists complain.
Great post Where is your atheism now? Notice how they write to complain. I do believe complaining is like breathing to an atheists. Hey, at least that's one thing they do.
Christians being Christians.
Pay attention to Bishop's hat, What is it on his hat? please visit limitisthetruth.com and click on word Choice on website to open file to learn secrete of circle engraved on his hat.
It's no secret. The circle is the sun and the four quadrants represent the four seasons. It's an astrological symbol representing the southern cross constellation, where the sun rises on December 22.
Jesus' wisdom is great.
In 1986, evangelist Jimmy Swaggart began on-screen attacks against fellow televangelists Marvin Gorman and Jim Bakker. He uncovered Gorman's affair with a member of Gorman's congregation, and also helped expose Bakker's infidelity with Jessica Hahn (which was arranged by a colleague while on an out-of-state trip). These exposures received widespread media coverage. Gorman retaliated in kind by hiring a private investigator to uncover Swaggart's own adulterous indiscretions with a prost.i.tute.
Swaggart was subsequently forced to step down from his pulpit for a year and made a tearful televised apology in February 1988 to his congregation, saying "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgiveness."
Swaggart was caught again by California police three years later in 1991 with another prost.i.tute, Rosemary Garcia, who was riding with him in his car when he was stopped for driving on the wrong side of the road. When asked why she was with Swaggart, she replied, "He asked me for s.e.x. I mean, that's why he stopped me. That's what I do. I'm a prost.i.tute."
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Where? Jimmy's sins were erased from the book of life when he asked Jesus for forgiveness and then publicly apologized to all. And you? When are you going to sincerely repent for your sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness, then of course, sin no more.
In troubled times like these, I like to remember the loving words of Psalm 137:9: "Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock."
You have been shown your error on that passage repeatedly. Post the entire passage so all will see for themselves what a gutter slime you are.
the less words from that sinful book, the better.
James Moss is a 6-foot-2, 270 pound father who ripped his 10-year-old son's clothes off, beat him with a spatula, held his hands over two kitchen stove burners, (producing 2nd and 3rd degree burns) punched him in the face, threw him in the oven, yelled “I'm going to burn you alive!” and then threw him naked outside, all because he thought the child stole $20.
You atheists hate Jesus and want him removed from the world, then you complain where is he. Are you kidding me?
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.