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October 10th, 2012
12:01 PM ET

Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang ‘lies from the pit of hell’

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

Washington (CNN) – A U.S. congressman is attracting attention and criticism for an online video that shows him blasting evolution and the Big Bang theory as “lies from the pit of hell” in a recent speech at a church event in his home state of Georgia.

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, the Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell,” U.S Rep. Paul Broun said in an address last month at a banquet organized by Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Georgia. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

Broun, a medical doctor by training, serves on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Speaking at Liberty Baptist Church’s Sportsman’s Banquet on September 27, he said that “a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth.”

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“I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old,” Broun said in the speech, which Liberty Baptist Church posted on its website via YouTube.  “I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says."

Scientists say that the Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old and that the universe dates back 13.7 billion years.

In his speech to the church group, Broun called the Bible the “the manufacturer’s handbook. … It teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in our society.”

“That’s the reason, as your congressman, I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the congressman, Meredith Griffanti, said that Broun was not available for comment on Wednesday and that the video showed him “speaking off the record to a large church group about his personal beliefs regarding religious issues.”

The congressman’s remarks about science have drawn attention online, with critics taking aim at his role on the science committee.

Bill Nye, the popular science personality, told the Huffington Post in an e-mail that "Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest."

"For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old," said Nye, a mechanical engineer and television personality best known for his program "Bill Nye the Science Guy." Broun "is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."

Talking Points Memo reported on the church video over the weekend after being tipped off by the Bridge Project, a progressive group that tracks conservative activity.

Most creationists believe in the account of the origins of the world as told in the Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

In the creation account, God creates Adam and Eve, the world and everything in it in six days.

For Christians who read the Genesis account literally, or authoritatively as they would say, the six days in the account are literal 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution.  Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years.

The Gallup Poll has been tracking Americans' views on creation and evolution for 30 years.  In June, it released its latest findings, which showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution.

– CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Evolution • Politics • Science

soundoff (5,886 Responses)
  1. sickofitall

    Evolution is a scientific theory, Creationism is essentially, Mythology. I really don't know why it's so hard to separate the two, even for people of faith. Ancient man tried to explain a complex process through a simple solution based in the only format(religion) he had to draw from. At the end of the day the two explanations aren't mutually exclusive if you can appreciate creationism within the context of time and history from where it came. I mean no disrespect to those who believe and I know this will be misinterpreted but faith at it's very essence is a celebration of ignorance. You have not seen god first hand and yet you chose to believe. What those of us who may not feel the need at this point in their lives to believe, please recognize the world is a very dark place for many people. If religion helps people find their way through that darkness who I am to judge what is "right".

    October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Turtleguy

      Evolution is a fact, not a theory. The theory of evolution is our best explanation of the mechanism that drives the evolution that we observe. Religious nutjobs like this congresscreature are incapable of making that distinction.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:08 pm |
    • Evangelical

      Creationism is not mythology. It is the holy word of God. It is FACT. Everything else are just mere theories.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "Evangelical

      Creationism is not mythology. It is the holy word of God. It is FACT. Everything else are just mere theories"

      hehe, good one, thats exactly how nutty the religious lot sound. I like a nice piece of sarcasm.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • Evangelical

      cedar rapids

      Why don't you leave the Belief Blog to believers?

      October 10, 2012 at 5:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Poor evangelical can't handle dissenting opinions to his flimsy little faith bubble.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:29 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "Evangelical

      cedar rapids

      Why don't you leave the Belief Blog to believers?"

      oh im sorry, i forgot, you are not allowed to question anything, you have to blindly do as you are told.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
  2. Stefan Radu

    To Me II: wounds healed? Is that evolution? It is function of a living body until it dies, and death is not improvement. Show me self-healing at a car? The second law of thermodynamics shows that continuous degradation in nature is a fact. Evolution is not the healing of a wound, but a being becoming another being, of superior status. Nobody ever saw that! The refuge is the unprovable millions of years. But this is exactly what the other side says: show me the creation, show me God!
    Stefan

    October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • JustRight

      Creationists really need to stop using the second law of thermodynamics as they dont understand it. Stefan....please explain how the second law of thermodynamics has anything to do with evolution (hint: it doesnt)

      October 10, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "The second law of thermodynamics shows that continuous degradation in nature is a fact"

      Well there are several long scientific response to that but what I will say for starters is that applies to a closed system, and the earth is not a closed system, there is this great ball of energy up there in the sky you see that is constantly bombarding us.

      "Evolution is not the healing of a wound, but a being becoming another being, of superior status. Nobody ever saw that! "
      er, no, thats not what evolution is. It does not suggest in anyway, shape or form that one 'being' becomes another 'superior being'

      October 10, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
  3. Bill C

    This is another pathetic attempt by CNN to make Christians look like a bunch of backwater hillbillies. Do I agree with Congressman Broun? Well, I wasn't around 9,000 years or 90 million or 90 billion years ago, so I don't know. I do know that there is every bit as much scientific evidence supporting the "young earth" (as if 9,000 years is young) theory as any other theory of creation. But the bottom line is I did not elect Congressman Broun to be my pastor, my creation educator or anything else. I elected him to be my Congressman, and he is doing a fine job at that.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      And they succeeded very easily. Because this guy is a moron.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      "I do know that there is every bit as much scientific evidence supporting the "young earth" (as if 9,000 years is young) theory as any other theory of creation."

      Through this sentence, you have demonstrated that you do not understand geology, nor do you understand what a scientific theory is.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "I do know that there is every bit as much scientific evidence supporting the "young earth" (as if 9,000 years is young) theory as any other theory of creation."

      if by creation you mean a religious story of creation then yes, you are right, there is every bit as much evidence as those stories.....namely...diddly squat.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      Bill C

      This is another pathetic attempt by CNN to make Christians look like a bunch of backwater hillbillies.
      .
      CNN doesnt have to attempt anything when discussing the South and Baptists....Baptists and the South already look like a bunch of backwater hillbillies. I wouldnt be surprised if this crackpot danced with rattlesnakes.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • sam

      CNN doesn't make people say stupid things; this guy earned his idiocy all on his own.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:13 pm |
  4. Dan

    I never heard of this guy and the article didn't say what party he is with, but I know he is a republican just from the way he panders to the radical religous right.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
  5. Timothy

    He's not even pathetic. He's just another ignorant Southerner. They've been a national embarassment for as far back as I can remember... Had Lincoln let them secede, we'd all be better off for it now.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:58 pm |
    • Gladdensnoot

      Lincoln was a southerner. Born in Kentucky.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
  6. Um...no

    We need to replace Boun and Akin with people WITH A BRAIN on that science committee.....yesterday.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
  7. Michael

    Paul Broun is a doctor with COMMON SENSE!

    October 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • sam

      Today is not opposite day.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
  8. lamb of dog

    http://science.house.gov/contact-us
    http://paulbroun.com/contact-us
    Be loud, email these idiots like crazy. They need to be put in their place. Don't just post here.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
  9. SmartLawyer

    And guess what? He's right.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
  10. Ed

    I hope Alec Baldwin washed his hands. That's some stupid you don't want to catch!

    October 10, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      "Ed

      I hope Alec Baldwin washed his hands. That's some stupid you don't want to catch!"

      I dont know about Baldwin but I think Broun crossed himself and said 3 hail marys to kill the germs. That should work right?

      October 10, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
  11. ScottIndependent

    its the other creation stories that are lies from the pit of a made up hell

    October 10, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
  12. lamb of dog

    http://science.house.gov/contact-us
    http://paulbroun.com/contact-us
    Be loud, email these idiots like crazy. They need to be put in their place.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  13. MTthinker

    And he sits on the house committee for Science – with Akin. I don't hold a lot of hope for our future..

    October 10, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
  14. fred

    There is zero scientific evidence that God did not create what we call our existence in six days. We only have evidence to support the accepted theories scientists have put forward. Science is constantly changing the construct of acceptable scientific thought as we move forward in our known time line.
    One needs only to look at Genesis 1:1 to see God created the heavens and the earth. Then, suddenly in Genesis 1:2 that earth was formless and empty. These first two statements alone make it impossible for anyone of intellectual honesty to say the Bible Gets it wrong. Any evidence you wish to claim between day 1 and day 4 relative to our current known time line is not admissible because God did not wind up the clock until day 4 of creation. One day or 14 billion years prior to that point is accounted for in the opening statement Genesis 1:1 or the creative action upon that heaven and earth beginning in Genesis 1:2
    The congressman has the right to default to his belief of 6 days based upon the same science the atheist has to default to a 3.5 billion year earth. Atheists just cannot seem to understand their default position is totally without any scientific evidence whatsoever. Even Stephen Hawking who personally is opposed to God admits we may someday find an explanation for our existence and at that time we can sit down and discuss why we exist.
    Science and the Bible do not disagree as to the account of creation.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      "There is zero scientific evidence that God did not create what we call our existence in six days."

      You have already failed from your first sentence.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:55 pm |
    • fintastic

      You make the claim, you provide the evidence. That's the way it works.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • OOO

      Let me start that off just as correctly but with a minor change...

      There is zero scientific evidence that the Tooth Fairy did not create what we call our existence in six days....

      October 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      "There is zero scientific evidence that God did not create what we call our existence in six days."
      .
      Fred really think about what you say...you are caught in a biased warped view. You cant see past your absurd statement.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT

      "One needs only to look at Genesis"
      .
      Well there you have it...no need for science or reason. All answers are found in a mythical book. lol

      October 10, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • xirume

      What a MORON

      October 10, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Bill

      Evidence against God is irrelevant. Those who assert a god exists have the burden of proof. The bible is NOT proof of anything. It is factually wrong on several accounts, internally inconsistent and contradictory in many places, and many things within it that would have been experienced over the entire region or the entire planet are not confirmed by societies in other places. The bible is a compilation of local mythologies and has nothing to do with science. It is no more true than the creation stories and god myths of any other culture.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:05 pm |
    • M I Snow

      "because God did not wind up the clock until day 4 of creation"... what clock? The earliest mechanical clocks date back to the 12th-13th century (historical fact)... and "wind-up" clocks came even later... so there was nothing for Gof to "wind up."

      October 10, 2012 at 5:11 pm |
    • fred

      Christianity and Islam is a mental disease- FACT
      What a cop out. 40+% of scientists are believers and we do not put our brains in the trash can we actually have a broader perspective of possibilities to explore and understand because we do not set limits as atheists do. Intellectual integrity is not possible when you choose to remain ignorant intentionally or by default because of unsupported preconceived notions. That applies to believers and non believers.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:14 pm |
    • fred

      M I Snow
      Ha ! It was day 4 when God set the lights in the sky for purposes of time: "God said let there be lights in the expanse of teh sky to spearate the day from the ninght and serve as signs to mark seasons, days and years."

      October 10, 2012 at 5:18 pm |
    • .

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "The Truth" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian..

      October 10, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Do you enjoy showing how much of a failure you are when it comes to logic, science, and debate?

      October 10, 2012 at 5:20 pm |
    • David

      @fred, i teach critical thinking and i want to thank you for a wonderful example of the fallacy argumentum ad ignorantiam, also know as the appeal to ignorance: "There is zero scientific evidence that God did not create what we call our existence in six days."

      October 10, 2012 at 5:30 pm |
    • fred

      OOO
      It does not matter if you believe or not in God or Christ the impact world- wide is of the greatest magnitude in 2,000 years now. You can mock or do whatever necessary to make sure you stay in the dark as that is your choice. Simply consider you have compared a fairy that takes a tooth from under your pillow with Christ. Last I heard no one was killed for putting a tooth under a pillow yet Stalin the atheist killed millions that refused to deny Christ as their Lord and Savior.
      Now that is logic and reason!

      October 10, 2012 at 5:31 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Your Stalin argument is completely ad nauseum.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      I t would seem ad nauseam to you because in your hurry to hide from truth you lose sight of the obvious. There is a significant difference between the Tooth Fairy and Christ regardless of your personal belief as to their existence. Comparison of the two always points out the blindness of the atheist. This inability to see such stark difference in power, presence and holiness of that which you feel the necessity to mock is also evident in other parts of your atheist delusion. Until such a time as you can in all honesty come to grips with the reality of Christ’s power, presence and holiness you will never understand why Jesus refused to perform miracles for the Sanhedrin. Just as the Sanhedrin mocked Christ (when they could not see truth) you mock the things of God.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:16 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Stalin's ignorant behaviour in no way gives credibility to anyone's god delusion.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • fred

      David
      Do you have any Christians in your Critical Thinking class?

      October 10, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • fred

      OG-No
      Really, you do not see the correlation between atheists on this web site that attack believers and Stalin who attacked believers because they stood in his way?
      Check the posts on just this site and note the objection to Christians and false accusations against them that they stand in the way of; $exual liberties, morality based on what the community desires, accountability for behavior, absolute truth, abortion, prayer, freedom of religion, etc.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm |
    • Robert

      "Really, you do not see the correlation between atheists on this web site that attack believers and Stalin who attacked believers because they stood in his way?
      Check the posts on just this site and note the objection to Christians and false accusations against them that they stand in the way of; $exual liberties, morality based on what the community desires, accountability for behavior, absolute truth, abortion, prayer, freedom of religion, etc"

      Perhaps the first thing we should note is the automatic and almost unconscious assumption made on the part of such Christians that their religion is somehow equivalent with capitalism. Any observer of America's Christians Right will not be the least bit surprised by this because conservative Christianity and right-wing politics have become almost synonymous.

      Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism, a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      Really "Stalin" references? You can do better than that and this is just silly: "yet Stalin the atheist killed millions that refused to deny Christ as their Lord and Savior"

      Stalin (along with his buddies like Molotov) were nasty pieces of work but the Gulags weren't the inquisition. He went after ANYONE who didn't get (literally) in the party line on his great Soviet motherland including groups like the kulaks (land-owning farmers) in the Great Purge.

      Perhaps 1.2M people were killed in the great purge (1937 – 1938). Perhaps 1.6M people died as a result of the Gulags from 1929 – 1953. These statistics are horrible and I use them not to condone Soviet treatment of it's people but emphasize that Soviet totalitarianism is greatly exaggerated by those with an "Christian" agenda to conflate despotism with atheism.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Correlation does not equal causation. Christians are opposed because they cannot provide a foundation for their delusional beliefs that they want to impose on others. Believers have 70+% of all abortions in the USA. They have no factual or moral basis for being more correct or better than anyone else. You continue to be hoodwinked by charlatans.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      1) You have consistently failed to produce any evidence of your moronic assertions.
      2) I very rarely, if ever, make the Tooth Fairy or Santa comparison, and I did not mention anything like that, so it merely goes to show you have a set argument going on in your mind, and when it doesn't go to plan, you run like you always do.
      3) All you ever do is make your assertions, and when asked to demonstrate your assertions are true, you go off on irrelevant tangents, like you just did.

      Your predictable fred. You have no thoughts of your own. You are a slave to the immorality of the bible, and the wishful thinking in your religion.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:59 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      "... Stalin who attacked believers because they stood in his way?"

      No! Stalin didn't just attack "believers" who stood in his way, he attacked ANYONE who stood in his way. Religion was not the only determining factor. Leninism was about exterminating aristocracy, monied interest and the clergy. Stalin took it even further.

      Frankly everybody who posted here today opposing the position of US Rep. Paul Broun, is exactly the kind of person that Stalin liked to send to the Gulags – irrespective of religious beliefs. Any opposition to the party line was treason.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • fred

      GOPer
      When an atheist pulls the Christ =Tooth fairy card I see that analogy as: Christ is to Tooth Fairy as Stalin is to murderous atheists.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • fred

      GOPer
      I am not sure how what you just said is any different from what I said. Why did Stalin attack Christians that refused to deny Christ? He perceived them as standing in the way he wanted to go. Ideology of communism and centralized power structure was not the issue even though it may well have been.
      Every generation the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Moses rise up. Behind them stands a belief and they move forward and do what they will with their power to further their belief.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      the issue is in conflating despotism with atheism. This is McCarthyist thinking: God = America and Godless = Commies. It is outdated nonsense.

      You said (confusingly) Ideology of communism and centralized power structure was not the issue even though it may well have been."

      Leninist ideology + seizing + maintaining personal power is what communist totalitariansim was about. The Soviets exterminated 85% of the Russian Orthodox clergy, but they didn't necessarily hunt down peasants and workers who were Orthodox. Just as targeted were intellectuals, anyone associated with the "Whites" and Trotskyites.

      By the way, this made me laugh: "Every generation the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Moses rise up."

      Moses certainly did his share of slaughtering. Nice to see you lump him in with Der Führer and Uncle Joe.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      so you're saying that since 'Christ = Tooth fairy' is a stupid argument, you respond with the equally stupid 'Stalin = murderous atheist' argument reflexively?

      October 10, 2012 at 7:39 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      by the way, this topic is number 8 on my list of irritatingly stupid arguments.

      8. Absurd attempts to conflate atheism with despotic dictators
      eg: ”Atheists have tortured and murdered more people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries” or slightly less inaccurately: “Atheists killed more than 100,000,000 people in the 20th century”
      The syllogism:
      - Communist despots ordered or failed to prevent the deaths of millions in the 20th century
      - Not believing in God is a tenet of communism
      - Therefore, atheists killed millions in the 20th century
      deliberately misrepresents atheism. It’s a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.

      Faith itself is a far superior argument than this.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:43 pm |
    • fred

      OG-No
      “Correlation does not equal causation. Christians are opposed because they cannot provide a foundation for their delusional beliefs that they want to impose on others”
      =>you just agreed with me unless I missed something. You want to impose your ways and ideology seeing Christians as standing in the way.
      If you impose the way of the atheist; no absolute truth, no absolute right or wrong then todays thoughts become what is right or wrong true of false. This is logically impossible if there is such a thing as truth there cannot be two truths that say the opposite thing. Take Greek pederasty as a prime example of male desire being accepted as true and right 2,000 years ago yet wrong and vial 50 years ago. The passage of time or community majority vote does not change what is true.
      If you impose the way of the atheist abortion is still right or wrong and the change in definition of what is a child does not alter a life that is no more and never had a chance.
      There are demographic reasons for abortion rates. The fact Christians get abortions is to be expected if the Bible is to remain true in all that it says. “all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God” Christians are no exception and if you use the Bible as history of the Hebrew they demonstrated time and again that those who follow God get off track and behave like the community around them.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:57 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      And once again once I point out the consistent dishonest idiocy of fred, he will ignore me. Probably now that I've pointed it out, come up with an irrelevant tangent that doesn't address any of the points I brought up, and focuses on a single line I wrote.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:02 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      the old switcheroo. OK, let's run with moral realtivism.

      If moral absolutism is true, then why is slavery wrong? Slavery is condoned in the bible – there are many references that I'm sure you know better than me. It's even in the commandments – the coveting one.

      2000 years ago slavery was right.
      200 years ago in the southern states slavery was right.
      Now it is wrong?

      What changed? The bible didn't change. Moral absolutism didn't change. Morality is what changed. It is inescapably relative.

      I'll give you another example. I bet at your church there is someone, who before getting divorced, committed adultery. They sit in the pew with you every Sunday without being stoned. Why is that? Surely the bible says that adulterers should be stoned?

      But before you tell me Jesus said to forgive, surely that means the "Laws of Moses" are not absolute.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • fred

      “You have consistently failed to produce any evidence of your moronic assertions.”
      =>If I show them to you again you would simply cry ad nauseam ad nauseam. I like your methodology better however over the non believers who stoned Stephen….they covered their ears and ran at Stephen screaming when he gave them the evidence on who killed Christ

      “ I very rarely, if ever, make the Tooth Fairy or Santa comparison, and I did not mention anything like that, so it merely goes to show you have a set argument going on in your mind, and when it doesn't go to plan, you run like you always do.”
      =>So are you saying that your handle is OOO ? your post on ad nauseam was in reply to my response from OOO

      “ All you ever do is make your assertions”
      =>how many times should I repeat my proof? Ok, prepare for ad nauseam

      October 10, 2012 at 8:07 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Ooops – moral 'relativism'

      October 10, 2012 at 8:09 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      Phew. You almost got me angry fred. Your lies are starting to burrow into even me. You supposedly bringing up some kind of evidence before was such an outright lie I almost lost it. I'm kind of envious of your simplicity fred. Your complete lack of original or sound thought. How nice it must be to not worry about truth or facts or integrity. Your pattern is intact though fred, I guess you have that going for you. Deflect and lie, deflect and lie. That seems to be the only thing you're good at.
      You don't have evidence fred, all you have are fallacies. Give the evidence, or continue showing your own failings by avoiding it.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Robert,

      you said: "Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic"

      I'd say socialism is not inherently atheistic.

      There is no question that the overthrow of the clergy is a tenet of Leninism and Karl Marx of course said of religion that "It is the opium of the people". Arguably the communism of Marx/Engels is atheistic.

      Marx says:
      "Material force can only be overthrown by material force, but theory itself becomes a material force when it has seized the masses. ... To be radical is to grasp things by the root. But for man the root is man himself. What proves beyond doubt the radicalism of German theory, and thus its practical energy, is that it begins from the resolute positive abolition of religion. The criticism of religion ends with the doctrine that man is the supreme being for man. It ends, therefore, with the categorical imperative to overthrow all those conditions in which man is an abased, enslaved, abandoned, contemptible being ..."

      October 10, 2012 at 8:23 pm |
    • fred

      GOPer
      “If moral absolutism is true, then why is slavery wrong? Slavery is condoned in the bible”
      =>no, slavery is not condoned in the Bible. God warned the Hebrew never to forget what it was like to be a slave under the Egyptians for 450 years. In the beginning God put order into the creation which was a formless empty darkness. Total freedom was experienced in God until man took of the fruit of good and evil. At that point man was a slave. God did not condone this and kicked them out of the Garden so they would not be slaves to death forever.

      “the coveting one.”
      =>Coveting is a sin against a Holy God as is treating people wrong (this include slaves specifically as slavery was common in the surrounding communities)

      “2000 years ago slavery was right.”
      =>never, not in Gods eyes. In the Old Testament instructions were given as to treatment of slaves that gave them rights not take them away. These were bond servants not slaves and from a justice view it was to the benefit of this class to be a slave to the Hebrew rather than the Cannanites. Yes, God could have said no slaves for you guys but, what to do with those that had no land or rights living in starvation presented a problem to the culture.
      Jesus referred to being a slave to sin. Reference of slave and master was used in parables and examples because everyone knew what that was. Just because I refer to Justin Bieber as a singer does not mean I am a fan or even like his music.

      “200 years ago in the southern states slavery was right.”
      =>many people confuse the African Slave Trade with the common slavery and bond servant usage in the Old Testament. They are not the same.
      Many Christians twisted parts of the Bible to justify wrongful acts of slavery in the south 200 years ago. It was wrong then and now.

      “Morality is what changed. It is inescapably relative.”
      =Immorality is inescapably relative and has not changed since the days of Adam and Eve. Morality is fixed by Divine Word of God without gray areas.

      “Surely the bible says that adulterers should be stoned? “
      =>that was a tradition of the Sanhedrin and other Jewish sects and as you recall Jesus called them on that hypocrisy and all the other harsh laws and traditions made by Priests not God.

      “The "Laws of Moses" are not absolute.”
      => Jesus referred to the Scripture and the laws of the prophets as being absolute. They did not change. Jesus fulfilled several of them so that we no longer need to follow them. A good example would be the fact Christ was the sacrificial Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins. Based on this final atonement we no longer need to go through the sacrifice rituals.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • fred

      hawaiiguest
      Ok, I might just let you in the real evidence that Jesus was the promise of salvation given in Genesis 3:15. You are takeing me back to the beginning of time and the talking serpent.....................Then again perhaps you are asking for some other kind of evidence. So just that we are on the same page what specific evidence are you looking for that you have not already heard ad nauseam.............

      October 10, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @fred

      The bible is not going to be useful in this situation for you, because you must first demonstrate that a god even exists, then specific gods can be talked about. I've told you this before.

      October 10, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      Ummm, no, sorry.

      ON SLAVERY:

      really? Slavery was never right in God's eyes? This is dissembling on your part. It is condoned in passage after passage.

      In addition to the commandments:

      Leviticus 19:20
      "If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment."

      Leviticus 22:11
      "But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food."

      But here's the real clincher:

      Leviticus 25
      44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
      45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
      46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

      So you say slavery is wrong in God's eyes but in chapter after chapter of 'I am the lord you God, do this, don't do that', there's no mention that owning slaves is bad, but actually says YOU MAY BUY SLAVES?

      C'mon fred. Be honest. Slavery was A-OK in the OT.

      -------------------–
      ON ADULTERY

      You said: "that was a tradition of the Sanhedrin and other Jewish sects and as you recall Jesus called them on that hypocrisy and all the other harsh laws and traditions made by Priests not God."

      C'mon fred you disappoint me. Laws of Moses:

      Leviticus 20:10
      "If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

      "PUT TO DEATH" This is not just the Sanhedrin. If you discard this you discard ALL Leviticus.

      Do you want to go there?

      MORALITY IS RELATIVE!

      October 10, 2012 at 9:04 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @fred,

      can't wait much longer ... I've got to run. Been fun debating with you.

      Stalin was a bad guy, but not because communists are atheists.
      Morality is relative.

      Have a nice evening.

      October 10, 2012 at 9:51 pm |
  15. Colin

    The next time a believer asks me "but why do you atheists work so hard to oppose religion"? I am going to send them this article.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:54 pm |
    • Bill C

      Then you will lose that argument.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:56 pm |
    • lamb of dog

      Only to idiots like you bill.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • Um...no

      I wouldn't bother working so hard if I were you. You won't convince them...they need to figure it out on thier own. One of the real problems is fear. They fear the unknown so making up a sky high spaghetti monster is all that keeps them (somewhat) sane.

      October 10, 2012 at 4:59 pm |
    • fred

      Um…no
      Sorry, I have no fear of the unknown which is a very weak argument from atheists who claim to embrace the unknown. When it boils down the origin of life and why we exist you embrace the unknown and we embrace the known. Exactly what form of human logic and reason would opt for a belief in the unknown when something as important as the reason for your existence is known by all to be a key factor in establishing purpose and meaning in that existence?

      October 10, 2012 at 6:25 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      Fred, as always, you are full of sh!t. As you have admitted several times, you do not *know* if any gods exist. You are clinging to unfounded myths you think explain the unknown.

      October 10, 2012 at 6:31 pm |
    • fred

      OG-No
      There are three “freds” on this site. I have no doubt as to Gods existence. I may on occasion include the statement “if God exists” simply to eliminate the distraction on those points where the existence of God is irrelevant to the outcome.
      If there is no God I will die having left this world a little better place.
      If there is a God I will die having done my best to honor and respect God with what I was given.
      As to gods they are manmade and not of God which is how you can tell the difference.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:00 pm |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      fred, if you do not want to be lumped in with the other idiots named fred, you should use another name. That being said, unless you can prove the existence of your god, and assuming you are not being forced to believe in some god, you deserve to be in the same general category of delusional (mentally ill) believer.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • fred

      OG-No
      "you deserve to be in the same general category of delusional (mentally ill) believer"

      Are you lumping Republican Presidents of the U.S, with Democrat Presidents ? All claimed as I do.

      October 10, 2012 at 7:59 pm |
    • nope

      @colon
      nope

      October 10, 2012 at 8:32 pm |
  16. Say It Isn't So !

    "stevenjgarner" pointed out: "Paul Broun also earned his Doctor of Medicine (MD) in 1971 from the Medical College of Georgia in Augusta"

    Doesn't this kind of "add insult to injury", folks? HA HA HA HA HA

    October 10, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • GoFigure

      So ... someone who DOES NOT BELIEVE IN SCIENCE can get a license to practice MEDICINE in the fine state of Georgia. Ahhh, good to know, I'll make sure to never get sick in Georgia!

      October 10, 2012 at 5:17 pm |
  17. Dr. Brian Bennett

    As a scientist and United States of America citizen I find this so completely offensive and scarey. If people in charge of our funding for science believe in some mystical creation vs solid scientific evidence we are in more trouble than I thought. I normally do not draw absolutes without data, but I think there is enough to say this man is an idiot. How do these people get elected, I know, by more idiots – religious BS like this will be the downfall of all of our societies – I just do not know what to say anymore, this guy is paid with out taxes, elected by more people like him – a President who promised increased funding to science through the NIH after election, literally stopped research in the country while we all wrote grants, and then never a single dime – nothing – I do research abroad now, were science is still funded and I do not have to fight the bible belt idiots like this guy – the big bang certainly took place, right between his ears, imploding any grey matter he may have had

    October 10, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
  18. M I Snow

    But... but... how does he then explain his presidential candidate's planet of Kolob... it's a paradox... blegh!

    October 10, 2012 at 4:52 pm |
  19. Stefan Radu

    To Lee Anne: some inferior beings have superior characteristics – is that evolution? To honestly engage in a debate is to bring logical arguments and facts, not only to deny something.

    Stefan

    October 10, 2012 at 4:51 pm |
  20. Saint_John

    Why would an all powerful deity require any time at all to create the universe? An omnipotent god would be capable of creating it all in a fraction of a second with no effort at all. The bigger question is why a deity would create the universe and us along with it. A real god would want or need absolutely nothing. It would also have no need for human emotions including love and hate. A god would neither want or need us. Religions make absolutely no sense and they cannot stand the light of day.

    October 10, 2012 at 4:50 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      I ask the exact same thing.
      A god would need no time to make anything.
      And why bother in the first place? He has no need to make anything.
      And why create a system where you have to live your life to determine where you go when you die? and why have another place to go to when you die anyway?
      bizarre.

      October 10, 2012 at 5:00 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.