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October 10th, 2012
12:01 PM ET

Congressman draws fire for calling evolution, Big Bang ‘lies from the pit of hell’

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

Washington (CNN) – A U.S. congressman is attracting attention and criticism for an online video that shows him blasting evolution and the Big Bang theory as “lies from the pit of hell” in a recent speech at a church event in his home state of Georgia.

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, the Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell,” U.S Rep. Paul Broun said in an address last month at a banquet organized by Liberty Baptist Church in Hartwell, Georgia. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

Broun, a medical doctor by training, serves on the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology.

Speaking at Liberty Baptist Church’s Sportsman’s Banquet on September 27, he said that “a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth.”

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“I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old,” Broun said in the speech, which Liberty Baptist Church posted on its website via YouTube.  “I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says."

Scientists say that the Earth is roughly 4.5 billion years old and that the universe dates back 13.7 billion years.

In his speech to the church group, Broun called the Bible the “the manufacturer’s handbook. … It teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in our society.”

“That’s the reason, as your congressman, I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that,” he said.

A spokeswoman for the congressman, Meredith Griffanti, said that Broun was not available for comment on Wednesday and that the video showed him “speaking off the record to a large church group about his personal beliefs regarding religious issues.”

The congressman’s remarks about science have drawn attention online, with critics taking aim at his role on the science committee.

Bill Nye, the popular science personality, told the Huffington Post in an e-mail that "Since the economic future of the United States depends on our tradition of technological innovation, Representative Broun's views are not in the national interest."

"For example, the Earth is simply not 9,000 years old," said Nye, a mechanical engineer and television personality best known for his program "Bill Nye the Science Guy." Broun "is, by any measure, unqualified to make decisions about science, space, and technology."

Talking Points Memo reported on the church video over the weekend after being tipped off by the Bridge Project, a progressive group that tracks conservative activity.

Most creationists believe in the account of the origins of the world as told in the Book of Genesis, the first book of the Bible.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

In the creation account, God creates Adam and Eve, the world and everything in it in six days.

For Christians who read the Genesis account literally, or authoritatively as they would say, the six days in the account are literal 24-hour periods and leave no room for evolution.  Young Earth creationists use this construct and biblical genealogies to determine the age of the Earth and typically come up with 6,000 to 10,000 years.

The Gallup Poll has been tracking Americans' views on creation and evolution for 30 years.  In June, it released its latest findings, which showed that 46% of Americans believed in creationism, 32% believed in evolution guided by God, and 15% believed in atheistic evolution.

– CNN's Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Christianity • Evolution • Politics • Science

soundoff (5,886 Responses)
  1. notraitors

    "...after being tipped off by the Bridge Project, a progressive group that tracks conservative activity"

    I love how any conservative group is called "extreme" but any liberal group is called "progressive"

    October 18, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • End Religion

      if the foo shits...

      October 19, 2012 at 1:18 am |
  2. notraitors

    Anvil is another one who needs to be reported to the moderator because, like Primewonk, resorts to vulgarity when someone posts something he/she/it doesn't agree with

    October 18, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
    • the AnViL

      oh simmer down, princess.

      don't act all butthurt.

      maybe you should start referring to yourself as "the taliban" instead of notraitors.

      ... make that your first order of business when you extricate your head from your rear-end.

      zing!

      October 18, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
    • FYI

      notraitors,

      There are no live moderators here - only the inane automatic nanny-filter for certain word fragments, and there are ways around that filter.

      It's the Wild West here. Deal with it .... or not.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • notraitors

      Go f*** yourself. Or has your grandmother already taken care of that for you?

      October 18, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • Primewonk

      notraitors wrote, " Anvil is another one who needs to be reported to the moderator because, like Primewonk, resorts to vulgarity when someone posts something he/she/it doesn't agree with"

      notraitors then wrote (in this same thread), "Go f*** yourself. "

      Apparently, Go fuck yourself is vulgar, but Go f*** yourself is witty.

      If you don't want us to think of you as a dickhead, don't be a dickhead.

      October 18, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
  3. notraitors

    I know how you feel, Damocles. I'm weary of secularists and atheists telling me how uneducated I am and how I'm unable to think for myself because I believe in the divine inspiration of the Scriptures. I have a master's degree and can think for myself just fine

    October 18, 2012 at 12:47 pm |
    • Huebert

      Judging by your post, I doubt that.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:49 pm |
    • Primewonk

      If you do have a masters, it sure as hell isn't in any field requiring logic, critical thinking, or any science related field.

      If you are going to make a habit of coming onto boards discussing science and post inane drivel about how science is wrong, and post inane creationist lies, you better bring your fucking "A" game and be prepared to back your shit up with actual facts and evidence, or you are going to get called on it every time.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
    • Peter

      So, Mr. Broun believes the earth is only 9,000 years old?

      Is he making the case that man rode around on Dinosaurs?

      This is astonishingly ignorant.

      I guess he is looking to win the high school dropout crowd.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • the AnViL

      a masters in head-up-the-buttology

      lolz

      October 18, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
  4. Pete

    Graystone said: And to further illustrate your ignorance… the bible clearly describes and speaks about in exact detail certain events that happened in human history, whether you believe that history or not. For example, the scriptures state that it was Pontius Pilate who was the Roman governor at the time who was responsible for sentencing Jesus to death and to be crucified.

    By his own logic Graystone would have to admit that all of the Greek and Roman gods exist becuase the people who wrote about them also mentioned real places and real people in the same works they mentioned the gods.

    October 18, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
  5. Piperman

    No one ever lost an election pandering to the stupidity of the proudly ignorant

    October 18, 2012 at 12:40 pm |
    • Just-In

      how unfortunately true

      October 18, 2012 at 1:36 pm |
  6. t3chn0ph0b3

    Nice when a real dolt shows his true colors in public.

    October 18, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
  7. DaTruth

    W.T.F.

    There are so many things wrong with this article, I don't know where to start.

    1) How can somone who works in a government which calls for a strict division of church and state, base all of his political decisions on religion? Thats ridiculous. Its ridiculous that this guy should be allowed to be an elected official. That statement alone should have led to his IMMEDIATE removal from office.

    2) How can someone represent the United States on our science, space, and technology comission who DOES NOT BELIEVE IN SCIENCE. Can republicans even see how absolutely ignorant they look. Thats like putting a black person on the "KKK Development Board". Like W.T.F. I am speechless to how these people if wake up everyday, knowing that they are preventing soceity from moving forward.

    October 18, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
  8. treblemaker

    For those who say that "humans created God", let me turn it around. "Who created the first humans"? What came first, the chicken or the egg? How did Cain find his wife, when Adam and Eve were supposedly the only humans on earth? THINK!! Is it not a possibility that creationism and evolution are the SAME?? Science AND faith must work together to free the mind from the devil's playground, because it's the only way to reconcile the spirit and the body that houses it.

    October 18, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • the AnViL

      "THINK!! Is it not a possibility that creationism and evolution are the SAME??"

      yes! it is not a possibility.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • Pete

      The egg came before the chicken as animals produced eggs long before there were any chickens.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • Primewonk

      "Who created the first humans"?

      The first modern humans appeared about 200,000 years ago. We were not created. We evolved from earlier hominids. We have excellent science on this, so I'm not sure why you didn"y know this.

      "What came first, the chicken or the egg?"

      Eggs evolved at least 300,000,000 years ago. Chickens, on the other hand, are very recent – dating back 12,000 to 18,000 years ago in Southeast Asia as a result of humans doesticating and breeding several earlier fowl species. Again, we have excellent science on all this, and today kids learn this stuff in Junior High.

      "How did Cain find his wife, when Adam and Eve were supposedly the only humans on earth?"

      There was no Adam and there was no Eve. If you understood the science of population genetics you would have understood the reason why. How many breeding pairs of the human species are needed for a populationto be stableand ensure enough genetic diversity for the species to continue? Again, we have excellent science on this, and it's available free of charge on thses internets.

      "THINK!! Is it not a possibility that creationism and evolution are the SAME?? "

      No. There is zero possibility that creationism and evolution are the same. First of all – which creation story? There are 2 completely different ones in Genesis 1 and 2. Plus, there are well over 1,000 different creation myths from various early tribes, cultures, etc. All of these myths are mutually exclusive, meaning no 2 or more, can be "true". The only thing these thousand myths have in common is the evidence they have to support themselves. And that would be zip. Zero. Zilch. Squat. Nada.

      You need to stop getting your "sciency" sounding information from non-science sources, like the "Pastor Dave's" of the world. The problem with this approach is that "Pastor Dave" is just as ignorant about science as his minions.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:42 pm |
    • sam stone

      perhaps creator and god are not synonymous

      October 18, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • oneworld2

      The chicken, because on rare accessions a chicken gets born without an egg.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:22 pm |
    • oneworld2

      whoops "occasions" damn autocorrect ......

      So my guess is a chicken was born without an egg and then laid an egg.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:38 pm |
  9. dave

    the Bible is a RELIGIOUS BOOK, not a SCIENCE BOOK not a HISTORY BOOK - the Bible is meant to teach followers about a relation ship with God and fellow people, the Bible is not meant to teach history or science

    October 18, 2012 at 11:53 am |
  10. Colin

    I will never forget the conversation I had the time Paul Broun and his forth wife came to my door:

    Paul Broun: "Hi! I'm Paul Broun, and this is my fourth wife, Mary."

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

    Paul Broun: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the guts out of you."

    Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

    Paul Broun: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

    Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

    Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

    Paul Broun: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

    Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

    Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

    Paul Broun: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

    Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the guts out of you."

    Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

    Paul Broun: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

    Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

    Paul Broun: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

    Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Well, maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

    Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

    Paul Broun: "In this town, Hank is the same as good luck. All good things are attributed to Hank'"

    Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

    Paul Broun: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the guts out of you."

    Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

    Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

    Paul Broun: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

    Me: "Who's Karl?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

    Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

    Paul Broun: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."

    From the Desk of Karl
    1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
    2. Use alcohol in moderation.
    3. Kick the guts out of people who aren't like you.
    4. Eat right.
    5. Hank dictated this list Himself.
    6. The moon is made of green cheese.
    7. Everything Hank says is right.
    8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
    9. Don't use alcohol.
    10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
    11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the guts out of you.

    Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

    Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

    Paul Broun: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

    Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

    Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the guts out of people just because they're different?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

    Me: "How do you figure that?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

    Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

    Paul Broun: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

    Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

    Paul Broun: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

    Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

    Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon was somehow 'captured' by the Earth has been discounted*. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

    Paul Broun: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

    Me: "We do?"

    His Fourth Wife Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

    Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

    Paul Broun: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

    Me: "But...oh, never mind.

    October 18, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • gunnar77

      Colin, this is excellent!
      Unfortunately, although most religious people would be able to understand that this is a very funny story about some weird Hank-worshipers, they won't get that this has anything to do with them personally. It's just not the same, you know! Because Hank is not GOD! And the Bible is true because in the Bible it says so. That's different, you know! Period.

      October 18, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Luke

      Priceless!

      October 18, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • the voice of reason

      Why does there have to be a god? We created "god", but we don't really need it.

      October 18, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • the AnViL

      colin, you dick.

      i was drinking a yoohoo when i read this and i laughed so hard it came out my nose.

      you're a dick.

      dick.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Primewonk

      @ the AnViL – Perhaps if we all pray really really hard, baby Jebus, or Hank, will bring you a new computer screen.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:50 pm |
    • Pete

      Keep in mind that if you pray really really hard and don't get a new monitor that means you didn't do it right, so you should probably try again.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
  11. notraitors

    Now if only the media had given as much coverage to Obama's pastor of 20 years exhorting his congregation to "God****" America"

    October 18, 2012 at 9:02 am |
    • Primewonk

      I wonder why ignorant fundiot tea bagger nutters, such as yourself, post just these couple words from just one sermon? Any chance you could expand your post to include the context in which it was said?

      October 18, 2012 at 9:12 am |
    • Whatever

      OLD NEWS. get over it.

      October 18, 2012 at 10:11 am |
    • notraitors

      Prime, why don't you crawl back into your occupy tent and smoke your bong? I don't care about the "context.' That's what he said. Period. If some white minister used a racial epithet I'm sure no one would be too concerned with "context." And as far as your fellow occutard whatever's contention that's it's "old news," slavery is old news too, but the left seems to keep re-living it as if it were yesterday

      October 18, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Now if only the media had given as much coverage to Obama's pastor of 20 years exhorting his congregation to "God****" America"

      um.... they did. that's how you heard about it.

      *chortle*

      it got some press... then it went away when something else equally as inane and banal popped up in the news.

      do you bump into stuff a lot?
      do things sound muffled???

      it must be difficult getting around for you... with your head stuck firmly up your rectum the way it is.

      good luck with that

      October 18, 2012 at 12:41 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Apparently notraitors is one of those ignorant fundiot nutters who doesn't understand the concept of context. Riddle me this – we all know that some words have many meanings. For instance, the word "know" can mean to recognize a person. And it can mean to have sèx with someone. So tell me notraitor, if I ask you, "Do you know your mother?", what do I mean?

      October 18, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
  12. GY

    I think of myself as a very religious Christian but even I would say that if anyone believes this NONSENSE then keep it to yourself. Don’t teach it to your kids either. This country has far too many problems on its hands to worry about this silly debate. If the earth is just six thousand years old then how does coal and diamonds form? There you have it, the debate is over. In a matter of seconds I was able to destroy the basis for Young Earth Creationism. I was once watching a debate between a young earth creationist and an evolutionist and the creationist stated that nothing good has ever come from evolution. I hope he doesn’t get a flu shot then. The USA and other nations for that matter need to produce scientists from their high schools and colleges so they can cure diseases and keep people alive longer. Do not get in their way with this nonsense.

    October 18, 2012 at 8:58 am |
    • notraitors

      I think many people fail to differentiate between macro- and micro-evolution. Have species, including humans, changed over the centuries? Of course. Did dinosaurs roam the planet at one time? I'll buy that. Is Earth only 6,000 years old? Probably not. This is micro-evolution.

      Macro-evolution, however, is not science but ideology. It replaces a creator with a specific intent with dumb luck. If there's no creator, then there is no one whom man is accountable to. It is precisely this philosophy that undergirded oppressive regimes like Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. Hitler was a follower of Darwin because Darwin's theories helped justify the Jewish Holocaust (since the Jews aren't the "fittest" then it's ok to send them to the gas chambers).

      The likelihood of having the diversity and interconnectedness of life and the precise dimensions of the Earth that we have being the product of pure chance is 1 to the -191 power (anything less than 1 to the -50 power is a statistical impossibility, according to Borel's Law).

      The creation account in Genesis was not written to give a scientific explanation of the creation process. It was written to show there was a design and order to creation (wasn't it a good idea that air and water were created before people were?)
      If the human race is just a biological accident, what is so precious about human life? Nothing.

      October 18, 2012 at 9:20 am |
    • Huebert

      Traitors

      People fail to understand the difference between macro and micro evolution due to the fact that there is no difference. Macro/micro evolution is not a scientific distinction. It is a distinction that came from christian apologist. There is no such thing as a micro-evolutionary biologist, only evolutionary biologist.

      October 18, 2012 at 9:28 am |
    • GY

      Notraitors,
      I never heard a scientist say there is no God when discussing evolution.

      “Macro-evolution, however, is not science but ideology.”

      How do you explain Lucy (Australopithecus) and the other missing links?

      It also isn’t necessarily dump luck. Theoretically, God could have created the universe before the big bang. To my knowledge, scientist do not have a theory of how this was created. In other words the universe could be put in place by God.

      October 18, 2012 at 9:41 am |
    • Primewonk

      notraitors wrote, " I think many people fail to differentiate between macro- and micro-evolution. "

      There is no differentiation other than time. Evolution is evolution is evolution. It is simply a change in the frequency of alleles of a population over time. Many years ago in this debate the fundiot nutters claimed that "evilution" was a lie. Over time however, even these cretins came to accept that organisms change over time. This is when they misappropriated the terms micro and macro. They then claimed that change could occur within a species – micro evolution, but there was no change at the species level – macro evolution. However, we have observed speciation in bacteria, fungi, plants, and animals. Many of the f dot nutters now claim that macro evolution is change at the genus level.

      notraitors also wrote, " It is precisely this philosophy that undergirded oppressive regimes like Nazi Germany and Communist Russia. Hitler was a follower of Darwin because Darwin's theories helped justify the Jewish Holocaust (since the Jews aren't the "fittest" then it's ok to send them to the gas chambers)."

      This, of course, is simply more lies. Social Darwinism is not science. And it certainly has nothing to do with either Darwin or evolution. By the way, Hitler and the Nazi's burned Darwin's books.

      notraitors also wrote, " The likelihood of having the diversity and interconnectedness of life and the precise dimensions of the Earth that we have being the product of pure chance is 1 to the -191 power (anything less than 1 to the -50 power is a statistical impossibility, according to Borel's Law)."

      This, of course, is simply more fundiot nutter lies. It shows the profound depths of your scientific and mathematical ignorance. Neither math or science supports your claim. Unless, of course, you actual have some peer-reviewed scientific research that supports your contention.

      notraitors also wrote, " The creation account in Genesis was not written to give a scientific explanation of the creation process. It was written to show there was a design and order to creation (wasn't it a good idea that air and water were created before people were?)
      If the human race is just a biological accident, what is so precious about human life? Nothing."

      Nope. More wack-job nuttery. Your god screwed up the whole order of creation. He got it all wrong. It shows just how scientifically ignorant your god was.

      October 18, 2012 at 9:50 am |
    • Damocles

      @no

      I am weary of believers saying that atheists have no purpose or give no meaning to their lives. I find comfort and joy and purpose and meaning in my family, friends and sometimes even at work. To do the best I can and to raise my child to the best of my ability, teaching them right from wrong and to have respect for themselves and their fellow human.

      These simple joys and pleasures require no justification from any source. I do not do them with an eye towards some va-gue promise of some va-gue afterlife. I do them because I want to and because I owe it to my fellow humans.

      You can cheapen your life all you want and if you believe that you would be a raving lunatic without some divine guidance, then by all means, cradle that belief to your chest because I certainly don't want you to be unhinged around me and mine. Do not make the mistake that everyone is as unsure about themselves as you seem to be.

      October 18, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • notraitors

      "Your god screwed up the whole order of creation. He got it all wrong"

      Then please enlighten us as to how you would have done better.

      "Social Darwinism is not science. And it certainly has nothing to do with either Darwin or evolution" How could it be called social Darwinism and have nothing to do with Darwin. Your statement is a logical contradiction.

      "Unless, of course, you actual have some peer-reviewed scientific research that supports your contention"
      Please show us the definitive proof that humans evolved from apes. If science is about what is observable, measurable and repeatable, who has observed this process. If people evolved from apes, then why do we still have apes? Presumably they would have long ago disappeared since they changed into humans.

      "They then claimed that change could occur within a species – micro evolution, but there was no change at the species level – macro evolution" You misunderstand the term macro evolution as used by ardent evolutionists. They are postulating about the origins of life, not about change at the species level. This should also suffice to refute other posters' contention that there is no difference between micro- and macro-evolution.

      October 18, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • Pete

      We didn't evolve from apes, humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor that is now extinct. So that pretty much blows up the why are there still apes question for about the 10 trillionth time on this one blog alone.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Alrighty then – notraitors, let's see if we can pars.e this mother –

      In Genesis 1 your god claims he created the earth "in the beginning". However, science shows that the universe began expanding 13.7 billion years ago. The earth did not form for an additional 9 billion year. Your god claimed he created "light" in the beginning. However, he neglected to create any photon emitting sources. And the early universe was way too hot and way too dense for their to be visible light. The universe had to expand and cool for 300,000 years before we had visible light. Your god claims he had liquid water flowing on the earth flowing on the surface of the earth on the first day as well. The earth did not have liquid water flowing on the earth for millions of years after the earth formed. And without a sun to supply heat, there was no liquid water. Your god claims he created terrestrial vegetation on day 3. Yet he again forgot to include a photon source to drive photosynthesis and provide heat. Your god claims he created the stars – including the sun, on day 4. Yet our sun formed from the sam accretion disk that formed the earth. The earth could not have formed before the sun. Then your god went and had birds appear beffore land based animals. We know this is a lie.

      Social Darwinism is not related to Darwin or evolution. It was a ploy to justify the superiority of one group of people over other groups of people.

      Humans did not evolve from apes. Humans ARE apes. Specifically we are members of the great ape family along with orangutans, gorillas, and chimps/bonobs. We share common ancestry with other apes.

      Macro evolution does not have anything to do with the origin of life. That is the field of abiogenesis. It is a different domain.

      Seriously – your posts are excellent exaamples of what happens when fundiot nutters purposefully choose to be ignorant and get their "sciency" sounding information from the "Pastor Dave's" of the world. The problem is that "Pastor Dave" is just as ignorant about science as you are.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm |
    • notraitors

      Primewonk has been reported to the moderator, because, in typical liberal/secular fashion, he/she/it resorts to name calling and profanity when encountering someone who disagrees with his/her/its outlook

      October 18, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
    • Pete

      Notraitors post should be translated to read: Primework made me look like an idiot so I told on him.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Gee Beavis, the hall monitor narked on me to the office when I tried to sneek into the boys room to grab a smoke. I hope this doesn't go on my permanent record, or I'll never get into CC.

      October 18, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • End Religion

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh0F4FBLJRE&w=640&h=390]

      October 19, 2012 at 1:40 am |
  13. redzoa

    @Graystone – You just stated, "that which I said is perfectly [follows]" If only we all had your 20/20 God-like vision and 4th grade comprehension and logic skills. Well, then it'd be either heaven on earth or a third world theocracy, depending on your view of course. Clearly, "[i]t cannot be otherwise..."

    October 18, 2012 at 3:30 am |
  14. Graystone

    Redzoa… You stated "Your entire first paragraph is more bald as-sertion. No evidence of miracles, just anecdotes and triple hearsay. You erroneously confuse your personal belief with empirical fact."

    I could say the exact same thing about you, that your unbelief of those facts is nothing more than anecdotes and triple heresay. Where is your proof to the contrary? Oh, I forgot, you don't have any. You think that all because you "don't believe something exists, then it doesn't exist", right? LOL… Maybe you should try listening to your own nonsense….

    As for facts, I have already provide you with all the fact you need (see my previous posts). Only it's not the kind of facts that you are willing to accept. But no surprise there…

    October 18, 2012 at 3:25 am |
    • redzoa

      I wonder if you even know what an anecdote or hearsay is? You've provided nothing comprehensible, let alone anything resembling a "fact." What I believe exists or doesn't exist is a belief and has no bearing on the reality of whether it actually exists. I understand this, but you, demonstrably do not.

      October 18, 2012 at 3:34 am |
  15. TheRationale

    Clearly this fellow was not intelligently designed. Nor does he seem too evolved. We have an anomaly.

    October 18, 2012 at 1:11 am |
  16. tony

    Stupid is a stupid does. The problem the rest of us face is that religious leaders tell us not only is it OK, but mandatory, to replace our tribal community supporting, decent, evolved consciences with their religious self serving, vile power seeking ideas.

    October 17, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
  17. brad4nyc

    This congressman is projecting. The real big lie is the book of myths and deceptions called the bible. And the evil, foul smelling, mythical creatures called god and Jesus. God is imaginary. Check out http://www.godisimaginary.com

    October 17, 2012 at 7:56 pm |
  18. John Wayne

    check out the full speech at the liberty baptist church website. I can't believe this guy is a medical doctor, much less a congressman. gory, detailed description of how his bullet ripped the heart and lungs out of a kodiak brown bear, and the bear took 10 minutes to die, writhing in agony......

    October 17, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Willard Romney

      I, Mitt Romeny fully endorse Mr. Broun, a fellow republican, and all his views. Vote for me and let's put Jesus back in the White House!

      October 17, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
  19. KRHODES

    Interesting the atheist and i will suppose democrats going after this guy. Funny...does anyone remember Hank Johnson...a democrat who stated that if we put to many Marines on Guam that it might "tip over and capsize?" He made that statement to the head of the U.S. Pacific fleet. Now that is truely a democrat.

    October 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I do hope you don't depend on your skills as a communicator for your career advancement.

      October 17, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
    • KRHODES

      WOW Tom....did you think that up all by youself?

      October 17, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • End Religion

      lost me kroddy. I imagine if you do manage to explain this to me it still won't have any impact.

      October 17, 2012 at 8:55 pm |
    • Veritas

      Johnson claimed that his remarks were meant figuratively and he was concerned that the influx of military personnel would overwhelm the island's infrastructure and ecosystem.
      Either way it's not in the same league as Broun and Akin who both serve on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology; Broun is also a doctor who presumably studied and passed exams. So how he can say evolution is a myth is beyond comprehension.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:11 pm |
    • KRHODES

      Veritas

      "Johnson claimed that his remarks were meant figuratively and he was concerned that the influx of military personnel would overwhelm the island's infrastructure and ecosystem."

      Right....and somehow making a statement such as that does not even compare to Brouns statement. So the non "belief" in evolution is crazy talk, but believing an island will capsize...perfectly reasonable. Tell me again, which ideology is reasonable?

      October 17, 2012 at 9:20 pm |
    • KRHODES

      End Religion

      "lost me kroddy. I imagine if you do manage to explain this to me it still won't have any impact."

      I am sure I did and i am sure it wouldn't.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:22 pm |
    • Veritas

      Has Broun retracted that statement? Johnson may said something ridiculous but he backed off to more defendable position; Broun has not done that, so his ridiculous statement remains his position. That is way below the standard expected on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, and way below the standard expected from a doctor. Who would willingly go to a doctor with such a poor grasp on science?

      October 17, 2012 at 9:36 pm |
    • KRHODES

      Veritas

      "Has Broun retracted that statement? Johnson may said something ridiculous but he backed off to more defendable position; Broun has not done that, so his ridiculous statement remains his position. That is way below the standard expected on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, and way below the standard expected from a doctor. Who would willingly go to a doctor with such a poor grasp on science?"

      Why should he retract his statement? He is not by himself in the belief that evolution did not occur. I myself do not believe that and am perfectly fine with stating it is nonsense. As far as your personal attack against Broun...i guess that is why he is a doctor and you are not. The theory of evolution has not furthered science one bit and to say otherwise is false. There just is no reason to believe all life originated from a single source and evolved into what we currently observe. I realize the atheist folks defend their dogma with everything they have because that is all they have to give them an explanation.

      October 17, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Irrespective of the assertion that "evolution is a lie from the pit of hell' we have the statement from a member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology" that the earth is "but 9,000 years old". This is worse than absurd.

      He is entirely unsuitable for the Science Committee. Put him on the House Committe for Veterans Affairs instead. He can demonstrate whether he has competence at taking care of returning troops.

      The real tragedy here is that he will be reelected, since he is running unopposed.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
    • End Religion

      what's cool about science is that it is provable. None of your beliefs are. That's the nutshell. You keep talking about what you believe. None of it matters, otherwise we'd need to recognize any and every crazy belief. The world progresses not on beliefs but science. It's cool with us if you choose to get left behind as religion winks out of existence.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
    • tony

      So your response to someone smart disagreeing with you is to send in the marines. Just like Jesus says not to, in your bible? Why not shoot up some 14 yr old girls while you are at it?

      October 17, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • KRHODES

      End Religion

      "what's cool about science is that it is provable. None of your beliefs are. That's the nutshell. You keep talking about what you believe. None of it matters, otherwise we'd need to recognize any and every crazy belief. The world progresses not on beliefs but science. It's cool with us if you choose to get left behind as religion winks out of existence."

      Thats cool...how is "science" provable? How are my beliefs unprovable? Why would we need to recognize every belief? How does the world progress through science? How am I going to get left behind is i dont believe the same way you do?

      October 17, 2012 at 10:22 pm |
    • KRHODES

      tony

      "So your response to someone smart disagreeing with you is to send in the marines. Just like Jesus says not to, in your bible? Why not shoot up some 14 yr old girls while you are at it?"

      Kinda scratching my head on that one?

      October 17, 2012 at 10:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yes Krotchy. I didn't need to have my tutor help me with words like "truly", or "to" or the "atheists". No wonder my capabilities astound you and cause you to question the origin of my posts.

      You need help with grocery lists, obviously.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:29 pm |
    • Veritas

      KR.
      By your logic, there may be other people that believe that a small island can capsize; in which case Johnson is fine to say it as long as other people also don't believe in science.
      If you think me stating that someone so proudly ignorant is incompetent to serve as a doctor and on the House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology is a personal attack, so be it. Explain then why, given his statement, you think he is competent and if you'd be happy for him to diagnose you or your family.
      You know nothing of my personal situation – location, occupation, education, etc. so why make unfounded attacks on me.
      Evolution has furthered our knowledge of all kinds of things; one simple example, plants and animals have been selected for human food production.
      Evolution does not say that all life originated from a single source and evolved into what we currently observe; it says that all currently observable life can be traced back to a single source.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:42 pm |
    • redzoa

      "The theory of evolution has not furthered science one bit and to say otherwise is false."

      This statement is completely and ignorantly absurd. The mechanism of mutation and selection is far more "creative" than any "intelligent design" by humans. This is readily apparent in various industrial applications for combinatorial chemistry and drug design; RNA aptamers are an excellent example of "in vitro" evolution (not to mention artificial selection in agriculture, evolutionary models in conservation biology, predator/prey models, invasive species models, etc, etc.). The modern focus on personalized medicine based in personalized genomics is rooted in our understanding of common ancestry and the natural selection pressures on various portions of our genomes. That we move through a phylogenetic progression in animal models (for example, invertebrate, frogs, chicks and then onto mouse, macaque, chimpanzees) is based on evolution. The identification of genetic regulatory regions responsible for developmental disorders is based on phlyogenetic comparisons. This is only a small list of ways evolution has aided science, medicine and agriculture.

      One could also look to various economic models which share their principal basis with evolutionary models of maximizing resources, compet-ition, multiple levels of selection, etc.

      October 17, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • sqeptiq

      kroads, do you believe embryology is a lie also?

      October 17, 2012 at 11:14 pm |
    • End Religion

      @kroddy:
      "Thats cool...how is "science" provable?"

      1) state hypothesis (a falsifiable prediction)
      2) test hypothesis to realize support or failure for hypothesis, and examine well it integrates with accepted theory
      3) if supported, have others re-test. If failure, possibly refine hypothesis and retest, or shelve it for others to modify, or abandon hypothesis
      4) after multiple confirmations, it becomes "theory" or "law", colloquially known as "fact"

      ***
      "How are my beliefs unprovable?"

      Your beliefs are as "unprovable" as my belief that a giant elephant pinched its trunk and farted the universe into existence.

      ***
      "Why would we need to recognize every belief?"

      Because if the world were truly powered on belief than any belief would be as valid as any other.

      ***
      "How does the world progress through science?"

      At some point we have to build on the knowledge we have. If we want to answer "what is 1 + 1" in Math class, we can't stop to go back and debate the definition of the word "one" or "plus" each time. Progress requires building on our collective knowledge. To do that we have to establish a way to prove an hypothesis by using the 4 steps above.

      The issue at play here is that religious people are willing to agree to facts the world has established - until those facts cross into their delusion. Then they wiggle and worm, employ Ad Hoc Hypothesis until one of the debaters faints from exhaustion, then finally invoke magic to overcome the facts they don't like.

      The bible has very little if any historic value, and nearly zero factual content. If you rely only on the bible to make a point, that point is considered worthless because we've already proved the bible worthless as source material. We have to build on the knowledge we have. We cannot continually go back to square one with showing you the bible is fraud, especially when you will only invoke magic at the end of the discussion.

      ***
      "How am I going to get left behind is i dont believe the same way you do?"

      Religion is dying. It will continue to concentrate as people leave, with only increasingly crazy membership, until finally mankind can't help but agree to the truth that religion has become totally irrelevant. You'll be in a mad social club, which maybe isn't so bad except you'll still be refusing to recognize reality. I'd say gathering routinely with other insane people to chatter about your delusions leaves you behind.

      October 18, 2012 at 1:04 am |
  20. GOOD NEWS

    The Son of Man (=John 6/27, 40) has thus clearly and unmistakably proven now

    that Big bang and Evolution are the most powerful and superb "Creation Acts" of GOD,

    through the "Language of Mathematics" here:

    http://www.holy-19-harvest.com

    ****UNIVERSAL MAGNIFICENT MIRACLES****

    October 17, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.