By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor
Washington (CNN) – It was the first-ever debate between two Roman Catholics vying for a White House perch, and in Thursday’s face-off between Vice President Joe Biden and vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan, the question was put plainly: How does your faith shape your position on abortion?
It’s one of the most divisive questions in American politics, and the query from debate moderator Martha Raddatz, asked near the end of the sole vice presidential debate, set the table for some of the night’s most personal and poignant moments.
“I don't see how a person can separate their public life from their private life or from their faith,” said Ryan. “Our faith informs us in everything we do.”
“My religion defines who I am,” said Biden. “I’ve been a practicing Catholic my whole life.”
But the two men took very different tacks on applying their faith to the abortion issue. Ryan said his religion – combined with “reason and science” – led him to oppose legalized abortion, and that “the policy of a Romney administration is to oppose abortion with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother.”
Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter
Ryan recalled when he and his wife, Janna, saw the ultrasound of their firstborn child, Liza. “We saw that heartbeat – a little baby was in the shape of a bean,” he said, noting that they still called their daughter “Bean” and saying he believes that “life begins at conception.”
“With respect to abortion, the Democratic Party used to say they wanted it to be safe, legal and rare,” Ryan continued. “Now they support it without restriction and with taxpayer funding … that to me is pretty extreme.”
Biden said he accepted his church’s anti-abortion position – “life begins at conception in the church’s judgment” – but that he refused to impose that view on “equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews.”
“The next president will get one or two Supreme Court nominees,” Biden said. “That’s how close Roe v. Wade is. … Do you think (Romney is) likely to appoint someone like Scalia or someone else on the court far right that would outlaw abortion? I suspect that would happen.”
Both men also used the question on abortion and Roman Catholicism to pivot to other issues, with Ryan saying the Obama White House is “infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals” presumably because of a new rule requiring insurers to provide free contraception coverage for virtually all American employees.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Before answering the abortion question, Biden said his Catholicism has “informed my social doctrine … about taking care of those who can’t take care of themselves, people who need help.”
The Obama campaign and liberal Catholic groups used the debate to organize Catholic watch parties and to argue that Ryan’s proposed budget in the House of Representative ran counter to Catholic values.
About one in four American voters is Catholic, though there is such a broad range in Catholic political concerns and voting habits that many political experts reject the notion of a cohesive Catholic bloc.
Catholics have voted with the winning presidential candidate in every election since the early 1990s.
Obama camp, liberal groups use VP debate to organize Catholic voters
In 2008, Obama beat John McCain among Catholics by 54% to 45%. In 2004, John Kerry – the first Catholic nominee for president since John F. Kennedy – lost the Catholic vote to George W. Bush, provoking Democrats to take Catholic outreach more seriously.
Both major parties had America’s highest-profile Catholic cleric, New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, give the closing prayer at their recent political conventions.
Birth control is the work of satan. Jesus wants us to pull out.
I love watching old holocaust footage. It really turns me on.
You are a sick person. I will be reporting the screen name "24 Hour Crisis Center" to the administrators of this blog and I encourage others to do the same. This is a forum for discussion, not filth.
There is no room on this blog for your hate. I am reporting you as well.
Did I say holocaust? Oops. My bad. What I meant to say was holohoax!!!
LOL, bunch of crybabies... Even if you could "report a screen name" CNN couldn't care less. Didn't you notice when you posted you could use any screen name you want? With the nutters and the crybabies sometimes it's just like 4th grade around here.
Yes, let's all report people guilty of thought crime and have them sent to the Ministry of Love. How dare they speak words I don't like, me being the all knowing arbiter of acceptability.
Catholics need to focus more on buttfvcking our young children.
they don't spend enough time on that for your liking?
I like Romney so much I just want to eat his butthole. Romney/Ryan 2012.
That's right. I am a wetback faqqot.
When an atheist steals a name filth is sure to follow. They cannot stand in the light of Truth so resort to filth to express the rotten maggot minds they want to infect others with. President Romney will put an end to their crap as well. Romney / Ryan 2012
I like Romney's f a r t s.
Ronald, this droopy dork guy is nobody's friend. Just like you. You two deserve each other.
I really want to poke out your eyes and hatefvck your skull, 24.
i have a chuckle every time I see a nutter use a capital "T" for "truth". What children!
anti Abort ism, denial of truth absolute GAWD, for peace, allow abortion of Islam on earth, goons Arabs denied a right of abortion to my mother, hoo'ker, I am stuck with ten HARAMEES (BAS'TA,RDS) brothers, absurdity of Hindu ism.
You are at the Museum of Modern Art with a date. You have high hopes for this relationship. She is smart, pretty and a great cook. You just critiqued a group of Kevin Appel paintings when you felt a sudden urge to relieve your bowels. But where is the bathroom? Too late. And it is loose. You drag your smelly self to the elevator; she is behind you but gagging...
Is this an excerpt from your novel?
let her, my hoo'ker mother, giggle now, and wash under pants, ism, of ALLAH later, while we men, goons, suck hookahs and giggle loud. Deny abo rtion of islam and get stuck with HARAMEE brothers.
All of this abortion talk is making me hungry ya'll. I had to skip breakfast cuz I have a paper route.
i hear Subway is considering a new breakfast "Fetus & Egg on Multi-Grain Crescent" - basically 2 fetuses for the price of one. (is that feti? and if so, does "yeti" imply many, with a singular being yetus?)
If loving abortion is wrong, I don't want to be right.
The national disgrace known as abortion will soon be as illegal as it is immoral thanks to a new improved America under President Romney. Romney / Ryan 2012
I think abortions are quite funny.
If you are going to clean up abortion, don't forget to bring a towel!
We need to increase the number of abortions in this country. We need to re-write the tax code to include special exemptions for doctors who can perform 50+ abortions per day.
Too bad your moms missed the window of opportunity. President Romney is taking names and will set this country aright. Romney / Ryan 2012
Mankind's disgrace known as Ronald Regonzo was born immoral.
Romney / Alfred E. Newman 2012
Jesus was undeniably one of the first jiz experts.
Prayer changes things .
You are a smart, modern human being. Nothing archaic or stupid about you.
I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but everything you have ever asserted regarding atheism and prayer is unfounded. The degree to which your assertions may represent truths is 0.0. To help you understand the degree to which your assertions may represent truths, I will access my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE). Using my IEE module, the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".
I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book might help you overcome this problem:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
Prayer changes things.
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
by the Alzheimer's Disease Society
If there isn't a God, where do I get my rights and liberties? Do I get them from the state? Then the state can take them away, Do I get them from the will of the majority? So the majority can take them away? The Declaration of independence says I get my rights from my Creator. If this is so , then none can take them away, they are inalienable. Democracy is not a root but a branch. The root is religion, that gives value to each person as a creature of God.(like it or not) Athiesm on the other hand is the root of anti-Americanism. All subversive activities are always anti-religious. The declaration of independence is also a declaration of Dependence, it affirms our dependence on the Creator and on Divine Providence.
Tanya, if you can provide evidence for any of your riciculous, hypocritical statements I would happy to discuss. If you are just here to dump a pile of poop on the blog, you have succeeded.
If there isn't a Unicorn, where do I get my rights and liberties? Do I get them from the state? Then the state can take them away, Do I get them from the will of the majority? So the majority can take them away? The Declaration of independence says I get my rights from my Creator. If this is so , then none can take them away, they are inalienable. Democracy is not a root but a branch. The root is religion, that gives value to each person as a creature of Unicorn.(like it or not) Aunicornism on the other hand is the root of anti-Americanism. All subversive activities are always anti-unicornism. The declaration of independence is also a declaration of Dependence, it affirms our dependence on the Creator and on Pixie Providence.
Tanya, the atheists on this blog (most of them...) enjoy some back and forth, some argument, some good conversation. However, our rules are different than yours. We support our arguments with facts and figures. You cannot be taken seriously unless you can support your statements.
If there isn't a Leprechaun, where do I get my rights and liberties? Do I get them from the state? Then the state can take them away, Do I get them from the will of the majority? So the majority can take them away? The Declaration of independence says I get my rights from my Leprechaun. If this is so , then none can take them away, they are inalienable. Democracy is not a root but a branch. The root is religion, that gives value to each person as a creature of Leprechaun.(like it or not) Aleprechaunism on the other hand is the root of anti-Americanism. All subversive activities are always anti-leprechaunism. The declaration of independence is also a declaration of Dependence, it affirms our dependence on the Leprechaun and on Fairy Providence.
Then read the bible and early Church Fathers for reference and then we'll do lunch.
Tanya, this isn't a church where delusional people talk and preach to other delusional people, each reinforcing their shared delusions. There are intelligent people on the Belief Blog and they will happily speak the truth to you.
Tanya, there is nothing anti-American about not having a belief in a god.
Tanya, I think you are misunderstanding me. I said facts. The bible is not a history book. It is not an inspired book. It has been debunked in each and every one of it's various iterations. What you can share with us that is based in something you can prove?
President George H W Bush said an atheist is not a patriot and should not be a citizen of America, we are one nation under God. Sounds like real patriots find atheism un-American.
Tanya, get your head out of your butthole. Open your eyes to the real world.
@truth be told
George Bush? LOL Here are some of his more genius moments:
10) "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." —LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000
9) "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000
8) "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004
7) "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." —Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000
6) "You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005
5) "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004
4) "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000
3) "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000
2) "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
1) "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
@24 hour crisis center
Wrong Bush, moron. Reading comprehension is not your strong point is it.
I think that those are all "W"s quotes, not Bush H.W.'s, as tbt is quoting.
– but –
H.W. did say the famous line, “Read my lips: no new taxes,” at the 1988 GOP convention. Then in 1990, he increased taxes as part of a broader budget deal.
Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/george-h-w-bush/2012/07/13/bush-41-who-hell-grover-norquist-anyway#ixzz29D0HbEJe
So what, a Republican has never been limited to Truth in the area of taxation. Just as long as the right people are not taxed There should be no problems. Romney / Ryan 2012
My bad TBT:
Still funny as hell though, luckily, the acorn does not fall far from the tree. George the Elder:
"For seven and a half years I've worked alongside President Reagan. We've had triumphs. Made some mistakes. We've had some s.e.x...uh...setbacks." —in 1988
"We're enjoying sluggish times, and not enjoying them very much." —in 1992
"I just am not one who – who flamboyantly believes in throwing a lot of words around." —in 1990
"Please don't ask me to do that which I've just said I'm not going to do, because you're burning up time. The meter is running through the sand on you, and I am now filibustering." —in 1989
"If you're worried about caribou, take a look at the arguments that were used about the pipeline. They'd say the caribou would be extinct. You've got to shake them away with a stick. They're all making love lying up against the pipeline and you got thousands of caribou up there." —speaking in 1991 about the Alaskan pipeline
"It's no exaggeration to say the undecideds could go one way or another." —George Bush Sr., in 1988
"I put confidence in the American people, in their ability to sort through what is fair and what is unfair, what is ugly and what is unugly." –in 1989
"You cannot be president of the United States if you don't have faith. Remember Lincoln, going to his knees in times of trial and the Civil War and all that stuff. You can't be. And we are blessed. So don't feel sorry for — don't cry for me, Argentina. Message: I care." —speaking to employees of an insurance company during the 1992 New Hampshire primary
"I've told you I don't live and die by the polls. Thus I will refrain from pointing out that we're not doing too bad in those polls." –in 1991
"I'm not the most articulate emotionalist." –in 1989
"We Bushes cry easily." –in 1989
"Let me give you a little serious political advice. One single word. Puppies. Worth the points." —George Bush Sr., in 1990
"It has been said by some cynic, maybe it was a former president, 'If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog.' Well, we took them literally — that advice — as you know. But I didn't need that because I have Barbara Bush." —in 1989
"Now, like, I'm President. It would be pretty hard for some drug guy to come into the White House and start offering it up, you know?...I bet if they did, I hope I would say, 'Hey, get lost. We don't want any of that.'" —speaking to a group of students about drug abuse
"These, they're very dangerous. They trap you. Especially these furry ones...it's these furry guys that get you in real trouble. They can reach out and listen to something so — keep it respectful here." —George Bush Sr., speaking to Arnold Schwarzenegger in 1991 about the need to be careful when speaking near open microphones
"When I need a little advice about Saddam Hussein, I turn to country music." —George Bush Sr., in 1991
"And let me say in conclusion, thanks for the kids. I learned an awful lot about bathtub toys — about how to work the telephone. One guy knows — several of them know their own phone numbers — preparation to go to the dentist. A lot of things I'd forgotten. So it's been a good day." —in 1992
"Please just don't look at the part of the glass, the part that is only less than half full." –in 1991
"To kind of suddenly try to get my hair colored, and dance up and down in a miniskirt or do something, you know, show that I've got a lot of jazz out there and drop a bunch of one-liners, I'm running for the president of the United States...I kind of think I'm a scintillating kind of fellow." —in 1988
"I hope I stand for antibigotry, anti-Semitism, antiracism. This is what drives me." George Bush Sr., in 1988
"High tech is potent, precise, and in the end, unbeatable. The truth is, it reminds a lot of people of the way I pitch horseshoes. Would you believe some of the people? Would you believe our dog? Look, I want to give the high-five symbol to high tech." —George Bush Sr., in 1989
"If a frog had wings, he wouldn't hit his tail on the ground. Too hypothetical." —George Bush Sr., in 1992
"Those are two hyporhetorical questions." —in 1988
"The Democrats want to ram it down my ear in a political victory." —George Bush Sr., in 1991
"I don't want to get, you know, here we are close to the election — sounding a knell of overconfidence that I don't feel." —in 1988
"Ozone Man, Ozone. He's crazy, way out, far out, man." —speaking about Al Gore during the 1992 presidential campaign
"Boy, they were big on crematoriums, weren't they? –during a tour of Auschwitz in 1989
"I will never apologize for the United States of America. I don't care what the facts are." –in 1988
"I'm for Mr. Reagan, blindly." –in 1984
"I've been talking the same way for years, so it can't be that serious." –in 1988
"Fluency in English is something that I'm often not accused of." —George Bush Sr., in 1989
And you have the gaul to dispute the Bible? You can't even follow a simple statement of fact without getting screwed up and off on a tangent.
That is your defense. You are quoting this moron like he matters and that is your defense? LOL
@tanya: "If there isn't a God, where do I get my rights and liberties? Do I get them from the state? Then the state can take them away, Do I get them from the will of the majority? So the majority can take them away? The Declaration of independence says I get my rights from my Creator. If this is so , then none can take them away, they are inalienable."
There isn't a god. Your rights come from people who wrote down some words as an idea to provide a structured government. Other people agreed to live by the words. Nothing more than that. America is just a big club, with lots of rules we agree to live by or suffer a worldly punishment.
The state and/or majority can take your rights away. All they need to do is change the rules of our club. The declaration says you get rights from a creator because that's the time period the document was written in and needed to pander to people who talk to imaginary beings.
In reality no one on this planet has any right whatsoever. We simply agree to some, to varying degrees, in order to form cohesive societies since that benefits our survival.
"Democracy is not a root but a branch. The root is religion, that gives value to each person as a creature of God.(like it or not) Athiesm on the other hand is the root of anti-Americanism."
Religion is a root; a root of the most problems in the world. Religion provides only the divineness you present in your argument. It is the bane of civilized discourse.
Religion does not provide value to people. People provide value to people. We can decide at any time not, though as we've progressed we've learned people have a value we can't always immediately measure, and also through a collective growth known as empathy, we generally agree a life has value even if we see none.
Atheism is simply no belief in a god. There is nothing anti-American about it especially since America was founded with documents SPECIFYING that religion stay out of the politics of running the country. Your assertion, Tanya McCarthy, is simply ignorant fear mongering.
"All subversive activities are always anti-religious."
Religion is a fraud, and as such it's a poor example to measure subversive activities. However, what if one's subversive acts include distributing pamphlets of information with the goal of closing down an organization? How is it anti-religious to distribute pamphlets?
"The declaration of independence is also a declaration of Dependence, it affirms our dependence on the Creator and on Divine Providence."
My creator is my parents. All religion seeks to take away Liberties. A religiously based America is an oxymoron.
“Providence” is not a Biblical concept. Jefferson didn't write it. The phrase was added by the Continental Congress at the behest of the Puritan members. Yet again appeasing the deluded so we could progress as a society.
Turd be Tooled shows its ignorance yet again. It's "GALL", you moron, not "gaul."
It's French moron as in pardon my French. Don't be an ass hole all your life Tom.
You are incredibly, unbelievably, hilariously stupid, Turd. Look it up. You're wrong.
Definition of GALL
a : bile; especially : bile obtained from an animal and used in the arts or medicine
b : something bitter to endure
c : bitterness of spirit : rancor
: brazen boldness coupled with impudent assurance and insolence
an ancient region in W Europe, including the modern areas of N Italy, France, Belgium, and the S Netherlands: consisted of two main divisions, one part S of the Alps (Cisalpine Gaul) and another part N of the Alps (Transalpine Gaul).
Latin, Gallia. a province of the ancient Roman Empire, including the territory corresponding to modern France, Belgium, the S Netherlands, Switzerland, N Italy, and Germany W of the Rhine.
an inhabitant of the ancient region of Gaul.
a native or inhabitant of France.
Do the universe a favor, Turd, and stop advertising your complete and utter lack of brains.
What you think tom.
If that were true, Turd, you wouldn't have responded under a different sock puppet.
tbt/no one gives...
Tom, Tom is correct about gall vs. Gaul. This is just another of many instances showing how ignorant and hidebound you are and how resistant you are to facts.
OTOH, the Turd will ignore your posts and mine, or will respond under one its sock puppets with an equally inane comment. I do delight in shining a beacon of light on its complete lack of education and intelligence.
If that makes the unbelievers here look bad, tough.
Stop the presses and rejoice, Tom Tom is back!! I love how you pick up on minor grammatical errors and make fun of people for them. It shows that you are an intelligent, busy human being. No time to waste on the belief blog. And by no time I mean 17 hours a day.
Already tried to explain the pun to you but you are not bright enough to get it. TS tom
"Already tried to explain the pun to you but you are not bright enough to get it"
Now *that* is sad... sounds like when a child first tests the waters by lying to see what they can get away with.
"it was just a joke!"
Aww. Did Snarky Bear/Xerxes/Colonel Sander get caught being wrong yet again?
Let me guess. You didn't know that "gall" and "Gaul" aren't the same, did you?
It's really entertaining to watch fundiots pretend to know what the hell they're talking about. Snarky thinks that fvcking up "gall" and "Gaul" is a "minor grammatical error."
Wanna bet the moron got under 500 on the verbal portion of the SATs?
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
French publisher Dargaud announces a new issue of The Adventures of Asterix the Gaul, entitled "Asterix disputes the Bible"
Albert Uderzo discovered in the collected papers of his longtime collaborator, René Goscinny, the outline of an as-yet unpublished story of Asterix the Gaul. In it, Asterix and his friend Obelix travel to Roman occupied Palestine with hilarious results. M. Uderzo says "I was amazed to find this old story outline. It was remarkably well developed. It was like working with René once more. I hope people enjoy Asterix's latest adventure."
M. Goscinny died in 1977. M. Uderzo has continued to publish the Adventures of Asterix the Gaul after Goscinny's death.
"Asterix Disputes the Bible" will be available soon.
[This is a parody, in case anyone missed it.]
here's your George H. W. Bush – in public.
He's a big fan of the United Nations, just like President Obama. (And a big fan of NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM.)
"We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order, a world where the rule of law, not the law of the jungle, governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful, and we will be, we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders."
Well my point is taken I suppose, because all of the unbelievers come to a defense of no-God. The absence of God is hell. Let’s pose some questions; do I know with my own reason and with certainty, all the truths of the natural order? Could it be possible that there are truths beyond my reason, which I don’t know yet, but could know? If these truths were revealed would it affect my reason in the same way that a telescope aids my eye? Can I be taught- even by God? Is there a certain disposition needed in me that pride and sin obscure, and which prevent me from knowing and discovering God? “For you say, ‘I am rich and affluent and have no need of anything,’ and yet do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I advise you to buy of me gold fire tried, so that you may be rich and white garments to put on so that your shameful nakedness may not be exposed, and buy ointment to smear on your eyes so that you may see. Be zealous therefore, and do penance. Behold I stand at the gate, and knock. If any man shall hear my voice, and open to me the door, I will come in to him will sup with him, and he with me.” Revelation 3:17-20. To open the door to the Kingdom of God, the lock is not on the inside, but on the outside. God does not break down doors to get inside, He knocks. It is for us to open the door to Him.
The point I made about Biden earlier stands. He is a scandal to poorly catechized Catholics. On top of that he’s giving the rest of the world a distorted idea of what Catholic Christian doctrine teaches. I worry about his soul, and the souls of all unbelievers.
If you're more worried about how Biden influences world opinion of Catholicism than say, the Cloyne Report, then your priorities are out of order.
“Could it be possible that there are truths beyond my reason, which I don’t know yet, but could know?”
Yes Tanya, it is called a 5th grade education.
You should worry about yourself, delusional psycho. Aren't catholics cool with wife beating? Your husband must be a closet gay.
W.T.F Pickle? Tanya didn't say anything to deserve that.
I do feel the hatred from pickle, but that's ok, because I'm hitting a nerve. I do know that the basis of unity for Americans is the unity in hatred. Some hate the American way of life, others hate Catholics, Protestants, Jews, or or dictators. Others hate morality, discipline and order, beauty, and life. They know who they hate, but who do they love? They know who they are against the the question needs to asked who or what are they for? Being united on a basis of hatred is very powerful, and it's just that kind of thing in this world which pulls it apart. I think we need to find a way to be charitable, without trying to wound each other with hatred.
Pickle Zone is absolutely correct. Tanya, you are easily the dumbest person on this blog. Scary to hear a modern human say things that you do.
Tanya, I think the Pickle has a hard-on for you. He wants what he cannot have. Even his name is phallic. Perhaps opposites attract?
You said, "Being united on a basis of hatred is very powerful, and it's just that kind of thing in this world which pulls it apart."
I think I agree with you there. A major part of the division in the US is based on hatred of minorities. It appears that this hatred is predominantly coming from christians. They justify it with their book of fairy tales.
You said, "I think we need to find a way to be charitable, without trying to wound each other with hatred."
Agreed. For starters, I expect you to fully support equal rights for gays and lesbians, including their right to marry the person of their choosing. I expect you to support complete freedom of religion, including freedom from it, for every citizen. I expect you to support a woman's right to choose. I also expect you to speak up and take a stand against those that oppose all this.
So, unless you stand up against the religious fundamentalists, you are part of the problem.
@TanyaMcCarthy: "The absence of God is hell."
Again, a little reality distortion field around your brain concerning the definitions of words. Not uncommon to the deliriously deluded.
"do I know with my own reason and with certainty, all the truths of the natural order? Could it be possible that there are truths beyond my reason, which I don’t know yet, but could know? If these truths were revealed would it affect my reason in the same way that a telescope aids my eye?"
of course we don't know everything. You could stop here though because "i don't know" does not equal "god did it".
"Is there a certain disposition needed in me that pride and sin obscure, and which prevent me from knowing and discovering God?"
There is a certain disposition required to "know" god. That disposition is called insanity. Imaginary sky fairies didn't create us.
"The point I made about Biden earlier stands. He is a scandal to poorly catechized Catholics. On top of that he’s giving the rest of the world a distorted idea of what Catholic Christian doctrine teaches. I worry about his soul, and the souls of all unbelievers."
And you, Tanya, stand as the reason religion is dying. Self-righteous, ignorant people wagging their fingers at everyone else for not sharing your delusion. So many deluded, all sure their delusion is the only correct one. It is transparenlty obvious religion is just one's frightened wishes and opinion.
With 1/3 egg bearers having abortions I'd say it's crisis time. You get what you train them for. The girls are trained to obey the beast gubmint and also the tyrannical corporations, but not their hubbies who are the fathers. It's time for the older women to step up and do something. Suggestion: 'Tts 2:3-4 The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,'
@Anybody know how to read?
You are quite right. The rest of us are not interested in love and family.
The murdering of babies in human sacrifices to Idols, were common and accepted practices of ancient Idolatrous civilizations . Today the practices goes by other names like abortion but are fundamentally the same. The Roman "church" is a huge Politico-religious organization. Whose doctrines, dogmas, teachings, ceremonies, rituals and practices are ALL GROSSLY IDOLATROUS.
Flee from Idolatry as well as from Adultery, Fornication and the murdering of babies; The latter being closely and inequivocally related to the former.
You have a real hard-on for idol worship. What do you care now that you are worshipping some other false diety?
yet another nutter making it easier and easier for the formerly religious to slide on over to atheism
As a former catholic myself, I have to agree. No need to Panic though! Though Biden and Ryan are Idolaters, Romney is a Heretic Mormon who worships Mammon and BO is a Heretic Apostate of Low moral caliber. So we're all in good hands... good for nothing hands I meant to say.
I won't panic if Obama is re-elected. If Romney is elected and am about 75% sure I will be changing my international address. Who cares about the V.P.'s? Waste of time.
Roam if you want to big G!
how do you add videos to the page?
For You Tube video, copy URL and paste in body of post.
Everything catholics do is in one way or another due to unbelief in Christ Jesus as the Son of God.
ALL of the Doctrines, Dogmas, teachings, practices, rituals, ceremonies of that Politico-religious Organization are grossly IDOLATROUS. Idolatry is a grave and serious SIN. Their statues are mute idols, nothing more than the same gods of the Greco-Roman Pantheon, that were given names from the Bible. A statue does NOT see, hear, talk, touch or walk; That is why they have to carry them. They have feet but cannot walk, they have eyes but cannot see, they have ears but cannot listen, they have mouths but cannot talk, they have hands but cannot touch. They have to be carry, dress, dusted and clean off of birds droppings.
Those who made them and worship them are themselves like the Idols they worship.
Wow bro. AMEN to that; So well said!
You have a real thing about idol worship. What do you care? You left the church right?
@ 24 hours in crisis,
Do you bow down (worship) before statues and paintings on the wall? Do you pray to them, praise them (worship)? Will you kiss the pope's ring? Do you do the across your chest the sign of the cross? If all or part of the afore is true; Then you are an Idolater! You need to Repent and Believe in Jesuschrist. Then get out of that Babylon!
Can you read? God took me out of a POLITICO-RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION (the RCC), that is NOT the church. It is NOW that I'm part of the church.
I am an atheist, so I will have to go with "no" on your questions, but thanks for asking.
EX catholic: Catholics use of art (statues, medals, paintings, etc) in their worship of the Lord is related to the mystery of the Incarnation of God in the person of Jesus Christ. This Incarnational Principle means that the material world has far more value in communicating the love of the Lord since He assumed humanity. On a practical level, these works of art are like the pictures of a person's beloved family. Those photos help a person recall the love and affection for those pictured. That is not idolary. Cahtolics only worship the Lord. The Lord Himself commanded the creation by human hands of Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 37) and the copper serpent in the desert (Numbers 21) as examples of holy works as compared to the craven idols of the other nations around them at the time. I recommend Alan Schreck's book "Catholic & Christian: An Explaination of Commonly Misunderstood Catholic Beliefs." God Bless you.
EX catholic = one of those that the Catholic Church managed to drive completely insane!
Many of us made it out of that fantasy and superst'ition to realism.
A work of art such as those paintings/statues. Are a product of the IMAGINATION of the Painters/Scuptors. Photos taken of people while they were alive or even dead are NOT the same. Because the camera captures things as they are in the real world and NOT as the photographer IMAGINES it to be. You cannot deceive a camera, like you can deceive the perceptions of the brain.
That is NOT and never been the case with ALL of those statues and paintings that are called by catholics with names such as: Mary, Peter, Jesus etc, etc. They're ALL without exception copies of PREVIOUS IDOLS of the Greco-Roman Pantheons of gods. They have feet but cannot walk, that's why you have to carry them.
TRUE Faith DOES NOT need IMAGINATIONS. We have the Word of God for Faith, NOT IMAGINATIONS such as statues and paintings.
"They have feet but cannot walk, that's why you have to carry them."
The same can be said of your Jesus. If he existed, his feet never carried him out of the Middle East. It took over 1500 years for him to be carried across the ocean to the New World - and in over 2,000 years, 2/3rds of the World does not believe that he was/is a god, even if he has been carried there.
From whom are you getting your information? Why so much hatred? Why do you hate Christians?
Are you talking to me, Tanya, regarding information?
The population of the world at present is a bit over 7 billion.
There are approximately 2.1 billion Christians, which is around 33 per cent.
Also, Tanya, I do not hate Christians. I think that they are mistaken, misguided and delusional and I sometimes get irked at their being so hidebound and utterly insistent that they know "The One True Truth!" and that it must be accepted by all (or else), without a shred of verified evidence.
another nutter's wild delusions helping ease the transition of the world from religious to atheist. Thanks for the help!
Some folks think I am an abortion but that's not even true. I'm 38 years old.
so many of us are failed abortions! Daddy may have punched and kicked like a mule but we held onto mommy's umbilical long enough to pop out fully baked. Sweet!
What else do you expect from evolutionists that believe in survival of the fittest???
@libtards are just libtards
Yes I believe in survival of the fittest. It is a sound and well-documented scientific theory. What do you disagree with?
What do I disagree with?
-Your callous atitude toward the sanctity of human life.
You know that survival of the fittest doesn't mean that humans should be killing each other off until there is only one left, right? It means that as a group, humans were able to work together to hunt and to pull from a pool of talents that allowed them to have certain advantages over other animals. It's not callous, it just is.
I think it is clear based on libtards' reply to me that this poster is uneducated.
Survival of the fittest simply means that biological organisms with adaptations best suited to their environment will reproduce, thus strengthening those traits which leads to success as a species. Aka: Natural Selection
Yeah, but I always try to have a little thread of hope. Oh well.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.