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October 25th, 2012
06:00 AM ET

When ‘God’s will,’ rape and pregnancy collide

By Wayne Drash, CNN

(CNN) - The pregnant 12-year-old girl was strung out on heroin and looked like a walking skeleton when she arrived at the hospital. The conversation that followed, said Phoenix police chaplain John South, has stuck with him ever since.

“Do you know who the father is?” South recalled asking her.

“She said, ‘Yes, it’s my biological father. He’s the one who hooked me on heroin so he could continue to rape me whenever he wanted to.’ ”

The Protestant chaplain has consoled about 50 pregnant rape victims - typically girls raped by their fathers - in his years working with the Phoenix Police Department.

South describes himself as “pro-life,” but when it comes to dealing with a girl or woman impregnated by a rapist, he keeps his personal views to himself.

“I don’t give them a lecture or preach at them,” South said. “I’ve seen crimes beyond comprehension.”

Republican U.S. Senate candidate Richard Mourdock stirred controversy during a debate in Indiana Tuesday when he said pregnancies from rape are “something that God intended to happen.” The instant reaction in political circles was predictable: Democrats decried him, and many conservative Republicans defended his position as steadfastly “pro-life.”

But theologians were quick with a more nuanced approach, saying the issue of pregnancies from rape strikes at the core of a timeless question: How do you explain evil in a world where God is loving?

That said, many expressed outright dismay by Mourdock’s remarks.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

South wanted to know what Bible Mourdock reads because “what he’s saying is absolutely wrong. It’s not biblical.”

The police chaplain said pregnancies from rape aren’t meant to be politicized and said the victims suffer from physical and mental wounds and are often suicidal. About 60% of the time, South surmised from his experience, the women or girls choose to give the baby up for adoption, as long as they never see the child at birth.

“I hurt for these kids,” he said. “Rape is evil.”

Rabbi Harold Kushner, author of the best-selling book “When Bad Things Happen to Good People,” said Mourdock’s remarks were off-base: “He’s invoking the will of God where it is not appropriate."

People “should have compassion for the person whose life is messed up by this and not make her an instrument for our idiosyncratic, theological commitment,” Kushner said.

“If you believe she has no right to terminate that pregnancy, you're free to believe that,” Kushner said. “But for you to write your preferences into law and compel another person to mess her life up because of what you believe, I think you're going too far.”

“I continue to be bemused by the ultraconservative lawmakers who say they want smaller government and less government intrusion into people’s lives, except when it comes to who you can marry and how many children you should have.”

Plenty of liberal Christians bemoaned how Mourdock was being perceived by some as the face of American Christianity.

"Once again, expressions of Christian faith that honor the rights of women to choose their own health care options and what happens to their bodies are not seen or heard," wrote the Rev. Barbara Kershner Daniel, who pastors the Evangelical Reformed United Church of Christ of Frederick, Maryland, in a message that she circulated via email.

"The lack of another voice, another perspective, another vision from the Christian community leaves an impression that all Christians share this single perspective about pregnancy through rape," she wrote.

Father Tom Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University, said he found Mourdock’s comments troubling from a Catholic perspective because “God does not want rape to happen.”

“Someone getting pregnant through rape simply means biology continues to function,” Reese said. “That doesn’t mean God wills it.

“If we look at the Scriptures, we see a God who weeps with those going through pain, who is compassionate for those who suffer and condemns those who do injustice,” Reese said

During the Tuesday debate, Mourdock was explaining his opposition to abortion in cases of rape or incest when he made his remark. “I came to realize life is a gift from God, and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen,” said Mourdock, the Indiana state treasurer.

Amid the uproar Wednesday, Mourdock sought to clarify his comments, saying he was sorry if he offended anyone but said his comments were twisted and distorted for political gain. “The God that I worship would never, ever want to see evil done,” he said.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

Paul Root Wolpe, the director for the Center of Ethics at Emory University, said Mourdock’s comments were the equivalent “of saying you shouldn't pull people out of the rubble because God intended the earthquake to happen or we shouldn't try to cure disease because it's God who gave us the disease,” Wolpe said.

"That perspective was theologically rejected by virtually every major religion a long, long time ago,” Wolpe added.

Mourdock has been an active member of Christian Fellowship Church in Evansville, Indiana, for nearly two decades, according to Mike Deeg, the executive pastor of the 2,000-plus member nondenominational evangelical church.

Mourdock has gone on missions trips with a group connected to the church to Bolivia and is well-regarded among congregants Deeg said.

Deeg says the church tries to remain largely out of politics. “We don’t think God is Republican or a Democrat,” he said by phone from Evansville, noting they encourage members to vote, the church just doesn’t say for whom.

The pastor said of what he has read about Mourdock’s remarks, they largely lined up with the church’s teachings on the sanctity of life and their belief that life begins at conception.

“I think rape is a horrible thing, and I think God would condemn rape as horrible,” Deeg said. “I think we’re made in the image of God regardless,” he added, “I don’t think the circumstances dictate whether God knows us and loves us, regardless of how our conception comes about.”

South, the chaplain in Phoenix, said the 12-year-old girl he met years ago opted for an abortion and her father was ultimately convicted of rape. He said he grappled often with “why she was subjected to such horrendous pain and torture, mentally, physically and emotionally.”

“Did it shake my faith? No,” South said. “Did I ask God why? Of course.”

CNN’s Eric Marrapodi contributed to this report

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Rape • Women's issues

soundoff (4,449 Responses)
  1. Innerspace is God's place while outerspace is for the human race

    Humane comes out of humanity's humans. Only in the goodness of Life may humans learn how to ever be humane.

    October 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
  2. John Thomas Tolbert

    Do not trifle with God. As bad as you think you have it now, it can get much, much worse.

    October 26, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Lt

      Sounds like an absolute monster to me.

      October 26, 2012 at 4:00 pm |
    • ME II

      So he's just a bully, is that it?
      Do what I say or I'll give you an eternal wedgie.

      October 26, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Sorry John, but you god is a sick, sadistic, psychotic, schizophrenic, scientifically ignorant putz. You can choose to worship this monster if you want. But don't expect the rest of us to do so.

      October 26, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @JTT

      LOL. So don't fuck with god, or he'll just troll you even harder than he currently is? Wow your god truly is a kid with an anthill isn't he?

      October 26, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • Innerspace is God's place while outerspace is for the human race

      John Thomas Tolbert,

      Here amid the celestial ambiences we live in the material. We are material placements ever in need of being understood. Life here upon celestial shorelines cannot fathom too much the atomic cosmos and its' abilities for the creation of celestial Life. What's learned in the yesterdays is only taught of today yet that which is learned tommorrow will never make it to the yesterdays. Therefore, live Life as if tommorrow never does make it homeward!

      1Cr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      Love,
      G.O.D.

      October 26, 2012 at 4:30 pm |
    • ;p;

      Threats??

      October 26, 2012 at 4:48 pm |
    • End Religion

      Here's me, trifling with god. Things are just as rosy as ever.
      Wait! A hurricane is coming for the east coast. It must have been my trifling. I'm so sorry to the other millions in its path.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:36 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Do not trifle with god. If you do, JTT will get very angry and say mean things. This is because he feels threatened by the fact that an increasing number of people recognize that religion is an outdated human invention and that there is no evidence that any god exists at all.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
  3. bob

    The days when usa has religion police enforcing gods will is coming soon to a country near you!

    October 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
  4. I don't THINK so

    My wife and I are not young; but we are seriously considering leaving this country. The crazies are taking over....it's worse than the era of McCarthyism. We have no wish to live in a Theocracy, and we're frankly too old to continue fighting for political sanity.

    October 26, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • niknak

      And a theocracy is where we are headed.
      The xtians want to make this a xtian version of Saudi Arabia.
      I have said this before, and will say it again;
      There will be a coup in this country, perpetrated by the right, within the next 30 years. Maybe sooner.
      Because where they want to take this country can't be done solely by the ballot.
      It can only be done by using force, which is something they are very good at.

      October 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Innerspace is God's place while outerspace is for the human race

      Fears are interfacial anagrams, ever being tossed about only to be quenched long afterwards.

      October 26, 2012 at 4:40 pm |
  5. What a wonderful opportunity for a career change

    Well Mourdock’s days as a politician have come to an end; but, this is an excellent opportunity for him to start his new career as a nutcase televangelist.

    October 26, 2012 at 12:44 pm |
    • BillyJ

      You're crazy if you think this is going to turn his voters off. They all think the exact same thing.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:55 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @What a wonderful opportunity for a career change

      " this is an excellent opportunity for him to start his new career as a *nutcase televangelist*. "

      LOL ! :D

      Peace...

      October 26, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Mittology

      Won't happen

      October 26, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
  6. donner

    Have you people really never heard of planet Kolob. Seriously? How about the White Horse Prophecy? No?

    October 26, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Primewonk

      And what does your inane drivel have to do with Mourdock's ignorance?

      And more importantly, why is the batshit crazy crap the Mormons believe any wackier than the batshit crazy crap you fundiot nutters believe?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • donner

      Because this is a Christian country, stupid.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:48 pm |
    • WASP

      @donner: "Because this is a Christian country, stupid."
      to paraphrase my NOPE MONKEY..................NOPE. lol
      hey that is rather fun.
      america has NO established religion, never has never will.
      the moment you religious fruits establish a religion with the government the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA no longer exsists.
      i think me and few million people may have something to say about that before you achieve that horrible act.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Apparently Donner is another of those fucking ignorant fundiot nutters who ignores Article VI, Section 3 of the constîtution, the 1st amendment to theconstîtution, and Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:09 pm |
    • TheVocalAtheist

      Hey Downer!

      Our country is multi-denominational. As much as you would like it to be strictly Christian,well, that's not going to happen so get it out of your head and leave well enough alone. A lot of people are getting really fed-up with you, your ilk, your agenda and it won't be a pretty sight if you continue to bully and lie into power. Remember, we're way smarter than you and more tolerant than you and we have essentially allowed you to voice your freedom of speech. BUT, it's out of hand and it's going to stop.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @donner,

      "Because this is a Christian country, stupid."

      the fact that 75% of Americans may profess to be Christians does not make this a "Christian country".

      Where's that spelled out in the const;tution again?

      October 26, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Charles

      donner
      Mormonism is just as Christian as those who believe in the Communion of Saints, the Rapture, or Prosperity Gospel.

      As Bart Simpson said "Easy on the zeal Churchos… I've got something to say. Don't you get it? It's all Christianity, people! The little stupid differences are nothing next to the big stupid similarities!"

      October 26, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • Charles

      donner
      America is no more a "Christian nation" than a Dalmatian is a white dog. It's mostly one thing, but it's the little "spots" of difference that actually give both their character. :-)

      October 26, 2012 at 1:42 pm |
    • BillyJ

      donner
      There is actually proof that extra-solar planets do exist, but zero evidence that places like Heaven do.

      October 26, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Mittology

      Donner kebab?

      October 26, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • niknak

      Donner kabab, thats good!
      And like all fundies who post here, he makes one trollish post and then disappears when called on it.
      where you at donner kabab?
      Hiding behind your babble?

      October 26, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
  7. I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

    OMGOP! It's the rape team!

    See:
    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/420541/october-24-2012/richard-mourdock-s-rape-comment

    October 26, 2012 at 11:35 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Team Rape – they're askin' for it!

      Indiana: Richard Mourdock – "God's will"
      Missouri: Todd Akin – "Legitimate rape"
      Iowa: Steve King – "Never heard of a girl getting pregnant from statutory rape"
      Pennsylvania: Tom Smith – equated rape with out of wedlock pregnancy
      Wisconsin: Roger Rivard – "some girls, they rape so easy"

      October 26, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • midwest rail

      GOPer, may I steal that ?

      October 26, 2012 at 11:51 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @midwest rail,

      by all means.

      Probably should fact check the list of names after Akin though. I just copied them from the Colbert clip.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Thanks, and will do.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      Alll of these guys have a rash of news stories that corroborate the bit from the Colbert Report.

      Note that Tom Smith (PA), Todd Akin (MO) and Richard Mourdock (IN) are all running for the United States Senate.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • midwest rail

      GOPer – the only one that's murky at best is the one attributed to Steve King, and I can see how he can legitimately claim to being misquoted, or taken out of context. The other four are dead on.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      You progressives beat out the pubs with Harry Reid. What were you thinkin'?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @GOPer

      Excellent, my friend.

      Peace...

      October 26, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • End Religion

      lolz

      October 26, 2012 at 11:47 pm |
  8. trigtwit palin... America's favorite tard baby

    *poot*

    October 26, 2012 at 11:18 am |
  9. donner

    So the GOP, who has been screaming for 30 years about this being a Christian country, nominates a non-Christian cult member for president. And it's working. Someone please explain.

    October 26, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • Ronald Regonzo

      The number two man is a Christian (sort of) Romney / Ryan 2012

      October 26, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • ME II

      Who says he's non-Chrisitian?

      October 26, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • truth be told

      Mormons are not Christians, that is not to say a Mormon is any better or worse than any other people group, just that Mormons are not Christians. Mormonism was founded as an alternate to Christianity and the more strict LDS still observe the difference. The mainstream Mormons have tried for the last 30 years or so to blur the lines to enable an event such as having a Mormon run for President.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • donner

      See, this is the problem. No one knows what the Mormon church believes. Mormons believe they are descended from space travellers from the planet Kolob. Literally. Can't find Kolob in your Bible? Me neither. Why wasn't Mitt Romney asked about this months ago??

      October 26, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "cristopher hitchens" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Charles

      truth be told
      Isn't it more accurate to say that Mormons see themselves as the definitive Christians, "alternate" to all the false forms of Christianity, just like evangelicals do?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:35 pm |
    • ME II

      @truth be told,
      You mean that Mormons don't fit your definition of "Christian".
      Who says that your definition is the correct one?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • Charles

      Yup, for decades down in the Bible Belt evangelical preachers have taught their congregations that Mormons and Catholics were following what the Bible says which made them false Christians. I grew up on this stuff and I can't see how they can either deny that this was the case, or how they can turn 180 and justify their support now. Besides, if they're teaching that being Mormon or Catholic is now an acceptable faith for a Christian then this is really going to cut into their recruitment later on. Were would the evangelicals ever get new members if they can't lure other Christians, especially Catholics away?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • End Religion

      It's very simply explained. For many, racism trumps faith.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
  10. niknak

    Man, you fundies are no fun.
    No fight in you at all on these boards.
    It used to be that we would ask you for some proof of your sky fairy, and we would at least get some resistance.
    Now, it is not even a wimper.
    What's wrong, did those mean old atheists question your magic man to the point you have all gone away?
    Come on, give us something that makes you still cling on to your fairy tale.
    You fundies are so good at killing people who don't agree with you, so you should have no problem responding to a blog.
    Ah, who am I fooling. The only thing a religious person understands is a clenched fist.

    October 26, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • Kenny

      Maybe they've all seen reason? :-)

      October 26, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Damocles

      @kenny

      Now that is damn funny!

      October 26, 2012 at 11:03 am |
    • and as always

      these losers are totally wrong

      October 26, 2012 at 11:06 am |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      You agree with the slaughter of all the apostles and even John the Baptist. We know who enjoys the thrill of the kill.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • WASP

      @read: yeah according to scripture your god enjoys the "thrill of the kill."

      October 26, 2012 at 11:45 am |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      Girly men are liars....................'2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

      October 26, 2012 at 11:50 am |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      'Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn [yourselves], and live ye.'

      October 26, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Charles

      Anybody know how to read?
      If you read the history of the early Church you'll realize that the first Christians absolutely thrilled at the idea of becoming martyrs. They couldn't wait to have their lives ended in the name of God. Even Paul fantasied about it. As a group they would put the members of Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, and the suicide bombers to shame.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • truth be told

      Atheists have brutally tortured and murdered more innocent people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to;
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • Charles

      Anybody...
      Then there's Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

      and 20:10-17 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. . . . This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

      However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hitti.tes, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.

      Your God didn't believe in showing much mercy there, did he?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • Charles

      truth be told
      That would be dictatorships, not atheists specifically, unless you want to just ignore all the death that Christians like Hitler caused?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • truth be told

      @charles
      The problem with your illustration is that hitler was an atheist.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:15 pm |
    • midwest rail

      ".....Hitler was an atheist." False, but you already knew that.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • truth be told

      hitler was an atheist true but you have to be educated enough not to buy into the common lie. The average atheist lemming finds it in its best interests to ignore historical facts that show their lemming beliefs for what they really are.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:26 pm |
    • Charles

      truth be told

      Also, Hitler said
      "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

      Obviously, he believed that he was acting as a Christian just like every other Christian does, right?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:32 pm |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      Charles, per your OT quotes, I don't see anything about pleasure. God is quite able to judge dustballs.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      The Hitler was an atheist is a canard. Who knows what Hitler personally believed. He was raised Catholic used religion to get the good Lutherans and Catholics of the Third Reich to do his bidding. There is evidence of this in multiple speeches.

      The Third Reich was religious. Soldiers of the Wehrmacht had "Gott mitt uns" (God with us) on their buckles.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      The SWAT teams are now wearing German military style helmets. This time they'll go for the Christians. Oh, wait, wait, they already have. Hey, lets have janet reno's head on a platter. That would satisfy everybody.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:41 pm |
    • Charles

      Anybody know how to read?
      Were the Native American populations, the native African, Australian and Asian people's and everyone else who was killed off en masse during Christian Europe's age of imperialism also just "dustballs"?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • Charles

      Anybody...
      SWAT teams, as well as our own military, are now wearing German-style helmets because it's a better design than the old pots our guys use to put on their heads. If they go for "Christians" they'll be going after them for breaking the law like the Branch Davidians, which is why you're mentioning Reno, I assume?

      October 26, 2012 at 1:02 pm |
    • JerryN

      I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV
      For all anyone knows old Adolph could have found Jesus in that bunker before he died and is right now happily smiling down at all Jews he sent to the ovens being roasted again in hell. If you believe in Salvation Through Faith then this is entirely possible, and Christians would even be encouraged to rejoice in such an example of a sinner being "SAVED"!

      October 26, 2012 at 1:07 pm |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @JerryN,

      yes, it's an ironic notion. Adolf and Eva clinging to their bibles as the gasoline is poured.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • Typical uneducated Christian as-s hole, wrong as usual.

      truth be told “Atheists have brutally tortured and murdered more innocent people in the last 100 years than were killed in all previous centuries.”

      Until about 200 years ago there were almost no atheists anywhere in the world. For all of recorded human history almost everyone belonged to some religion or another. So all the torture and murder for almost all of recorded history was committed by theists

      October 26, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
  11. Lar5

    There are millions of middle class Republicans who vote and do not grasp the theological and economic significance of these the ultra right zealots.John Kennedy during his presidential campaign had to make a speech stating that he would not let his Catholicism effect the way he governed, The pope and the Catholic church would have no impact on his presidency. That's the way it should be right now!

    October 26, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • Ronald Regonzo

      Well lars get a "real" girl, it isn't 1960 anymore and president Romney is not a dumbocrat. We've let the mos and the athies run their mouths for far too long – it is past due for a return to the moral majority. Romney / Ryan 2012

      October 26, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • End Religion

      @RonRebozo: the moral majority is neither.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:56 pm |
  12. Anybody know how to read?

    Wasp sayz, '..........then you have a major issue if you eat anything that is alive..................because you have to either wait for it to die naturally or kill it yourself.......' I think you were shooting spitwads at your buddy and weren't paying attention during your Baptist training.I know how that is. I got expelled from a summer school once for my comedy routines I learned from the boob tube. So you ended up with an undeveloped conscience................'Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.'

    October 26, 2012 at 10:40 am |
    • niknak

      What the f are you talking about?

      October 26, 2012 at 10:50 am |
    • WASP

      @read, better known as TBT: nicely done taking only part of my comment about the whole "thou shall not kill" thing.
      it is a simplistic command that you christians can't even get correct, i was stating that if you eat meat or any kind of plant life then you are "killing" this is commanded to be wrong. it's simple logic.............so enjoy eating your dirt; i will enjoy my t-bone steak with all the trimmings. :)

      October 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      WASP, that's sum imagination, vain I might add, that you possess. Maybe you were texting while prayin'? I stand by my original post.

      October 26, 2012 at 1:03 pm |
  13. Religion is not healthy for children and other living things

    Knowledge changes things.

    October 26, 2012 at 10:28 am |
    • nope

      @rel...
      nope

      October 26, 2012 at 10:59 am |
    • Bet

      @nope

      Do you still go to the village barber when you're sick and let him drill holes in your skull to let the bad spirits out?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
  14. derp

    I'm not even gay, however, if the opportunity ever presented itself, I'd butt r ape this moron just so he would know how it feels. Then I'd butt r ape him again every day for nine months so he knows how it feels to be forced to carry the pregnancy.

    October 26, 2012 at 10:27 am |
    • NatL

      Why would you need to be gay in order to do what you're talking about?

      October 26, 2012 at 10:41 am |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      Kweers are known for being bullies and their violence is infectious.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • NatL

      Anybody know how to read?
      There are many supposedly straight men who like to put their things up women's butts. Lots in prison who like to force men as well, but would never admit to being gay. Which gay people do you know who are bullies?

      October 26, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • midwest rail

      Delusional idiocy from "anyone", as usual

      October 26, 2012 at 10:52 am |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      What's the name of da college coach out east?

      October 26, 2012 at 11:01 am |
    • Primewonk

      Sandusky is a pedophile, not gay. Why would you equate pedophilia, which is abnormal and illegal, with being gay, which is normal, and legal?

      Are you this ignorant about other areas of science as well?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm |
    • Anybody know how to read?

      Wonk, college age men are children? Last I heard they are military eligible. You send boys to do your fightin'? What kind of a wonk are you?

      October 26, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Anybody, you're a fvcking idiot. The victims of Jerry Sandusky weren't "college-age men." You're so imbecilic you do more good for atheism than you do for your fundie beliefs.

      Thanks. Good job!

      October 26, 2012 at 6:29 pm |
  15. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    October 26, 2012 at 7:29 am |
    • WASP

      @thing: you work fast don't you? hmmmm let's see how can a puppet of god get around the blogs so fast, eureka i've got it. you stole some magic from your god. XD

      October 26, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • nope

      @wisp
      nope

      October 26, 2012 at 9:46 am |
    • WASP

      YAY! it's my little NOPE monkey...............DANCE FOR ME NOPE MONKEY DANCE! that's a good NOPE monkey. now back into your cage mommy doesn't like it when you poo on the floor. XD

      October 26, 2012 at 9:58 am |
    • nope

      @wusp...
      nope

      October 26, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Which God?

      @nope. Yep.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:30 am |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian. .

      October 26, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs."

      October 26, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • WASP

      see how lovely my NOPE monkey dances, all i have to do is ask. lmfao that a good NOPE monkey (pats on head) XD

      October 26, 2012 at 11:43 am |
    • snopes confirms

      nope is false

      October 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • and as always

      snopes doesn't have a clue

      October 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • End Religion

      snopes has The One Clue, to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them

      October 27, 2012 at 12:00 am |
  16. oblivious

    interesting assessment. its foolish of me to pretend i know everything isnt it? david stoned goliath, outside of noahs history everyone died. i wasnt there n i certainly didnt order d hit. lol. once again ask god not me. i will say he has d authority to kill whomever he wants. just cause he can doesnt mean we can.

    October 26, 2012 at 6:45 am |
    • WASP

      @obliv: yeah tried the whole "ask god why" thing while i was christian, you know he never once answered anything.
      it took me until adulthood to figure out the guy isn't real, nor any of the other thousands of gods humans have made to explain what they couldn't understand.
      now unless i'm one of those lovely people your god chose to create to test your faith then fry my ass, then i will enjoy every second of it because who am i "to question god" lmfao

      October 26, 2012 at 7:12 am |
    • truth be told

      @wasp
      Your statement proves you confused or lying.There does not exist a used to be Christian, you may have been associated with a Christian church but you were never a Christian.

      October 26, 2012 at 7:31 am |
    • WASP

      @truth not important: i grew up SOUTHERN BAPTIST ass hole. i think that means i WAS christian then figured out that your god doesn't do anything, you know kindof how a de-ad beat dad can't do anything because they are there, yeah samething.
      in both situations the guy isn't real buit a nice fairytale you get to create yourself.

      October 26, 2012 at 7:34 am |
    • WASP

      @truth not important: i grew up SOUTHERN BAPTIST ass hole. i think that means i WAS christian then figured out that your god doesn't do anything, you know kindof how a d-e-a-d beat dad can't do anything because they aren't there, yeah samething.
      in both situations the guy isn't real but a nice fairytale you get to create yourself.

      so many typos, so little time. lmao

      October 26, 2012 at 7:43 am |
    • Which God?

      Your handle suits you well. You truly are oblivious, except for the fantasy running through your obviously oblivious head.

      October 26, 2012 at 9:29 am |
    • truth be told

      I do not care what you grew up you were never a Christian. You may have deceived yourself and others but God never knew you.

      October 26, 2012 at 9:45 am |
    • midwest rail

      There ya have it folks, two of the three prime characteristics of contemporary Christianity from t b t – arrogance and condescension.

      October 26, 2012 at 9:48 am |
    • WASP

      @can't handle the truth: seriously? ok so you're god and you know whom and what i am, then prove yourself.
      if you have god's ear convince him to do something, seeing you know whom are christian and whom are merely fooling themselves.
      i think you are a scared, silly little man that is all alone in this world because you are such a JUDGEMENTAL ass hole that no self respecting woman would get anywhere close to; i imagine your own mother left you behind as the little worm you are because she didn't want you. that only left you one avenue of emotional relief, believeing in a d-e-a-d beat father figure that can do and be anything you want.

      want to know a secret TBT? your god is no different than the parents that abandoned you, they aren't real and niether is your god. if your parents aren't there they can't do crap for you and your missing god is no different. stay on your knees and grovel to your imaginary friend, think what you like about me i truly don't give a sh/it.
      me i stand on my own feet and stare life in the face, i make my own path by cutting down religious freaks like you, so please continue to judge me because the only way you can judge me is IF YOU ARE STARING AT MY BACK AS I CLEAR THE PATH FOR YOU......................... so please continue to stare at my back, you weak freak.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:06 am |
    • truth be told

      What kind of a moron confuses Truth for arrogance and condescension? Could it be the same type that would characterize those two things as three? As to wasp we are not even on the same path, God chose me, sorry about you.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:14 am |
    • Which God?

      @ttb. You are sooo funny! You presume to speak for god now? You know his mind? Wow. Can you do the walk on water trick too? You deluded fool.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:32 am |
    • niknak

      That is a great screen name you have there oblivious.
      Because that is what you are, to facts and reality.
      And get ready for you long slide into oblivion as once you pass, that is all there is going to be for you.
      Sorry, no heaven, or hell, just empty nothingness. Just how it was for you before you were conceived.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:54 am |
    • Charles

      “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” Mark Twain

      October 26, 2012 at 11:00 am |
    • truth be told

      There is no tricks with God only honesty, Truth, love and reality. Sorry you missed it all. Those God loves He predestined, look where you are and look where I AM.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:09 am |
    • TrollAlert

      TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian. .

      October 26, 2012 at 11:11 am |
    • truth be told

      It is a troll but it is never alert and never accurate whether it is this or (.) or phony jesus or hal.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • WASP

      @truth of insanity: " As to wasp we are not even on the same path, God chose me, sorry about you."
      hmp, ofcourse we're not on the same path; you're on your knees staring up god's man-dress and i'm cutting a path through life for myself.
      i work have a family and served my country, while you were still on your knees.
      i help anyone that i meet along my path in life, you are still on your knees.
      there is a difference between a real man and a child in a man's body, real men accept responcibility for their lives and work to make them better; real men sacrifice of themselves so others can accomplish their goals.
      you my lost child are a waste of flesh, you sit crying about things and wait for your nanny god to fix things for you.
      your god can bring whatever he likes and throw it at me, hell he can even send you here to brooklyn NYC to test me,however i imagine you have more ass kissing to do with your d-e-a-d beat father figure. enjoy

      October 26, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • WASP

      @which: don't you know, TB has god's ear. you better be afraid, very afraid he may ask his invisible imaginary father figure to send 7 plagues on you. LMFAO
      TB i do enjoy messing with you. it helps pass my day at work, plus gives my family something to laugh at when i get home.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:41 am |
    • Charles

      truth be told
      "Those God loves He predestined"
      Then it's the rest of us who actually have free will, right?

      Hmm... I'm liking where I am more and more.

      October 26, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
    • Oblivious

      Lol. I've never blogged b4, and its pretty neat some of u responded. Good or bad is fine with me. Who ever wrote my translation is English n in Hebrew is something different, thank u for that. My understanding was King James Version is an accurate interpretation from Hebrew, but things definitely get lost in translation. For those who choose not to believe in god, so b it, there's no hate in my heart for u. As for me I know he exists. Truth b told, that's my understanding too, gov has authority to put to death ect.. I like simplicity so I left it out. My point was simply thou shalt not kill. Thanks to truth, unless ur in some form of government sanctioned to do this or military...n just because I'm bored n hopin to get more feedback. D bible, at least mine, has a how to when it comes to wars. My English bible, lol, says all men and women and children should b killed in war. Hard for me to stomach, but there it is. Truth if ur Hebrew bible says otherwise, I'm curious to hear from u

      October 26, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
  17. oblivious

    take it up with god, its not my opinion, n i cant speak for him. perhaps u think my faith is misguided, so b it. talk to him, not me. though shalt not kill is crystal to me, interpret it anyway u choose n make it ur own. put ur spin on it n c where that road leads u. ur responsible for urself n ur beliefs n non beliefs. n good luck n god bless. g nite

    October 26, 2012 at 6:32 am |
    • Charles

      Sure it's just your opinion. You can't actually prove anything, right?

      October 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
  18. oblivious

    i offer up an opinion and say it doesnt matter??? i wasnt tryin to b opinionated but so b it. for arguements sake lets say i was. if u denounce christ so b it. if u denounce gods will so b it. if u denounce a greater power than urself so b it. its impossible to get through to u. but if u believe in d bible, truly, how can one argue with any of gods commandments? its very simple n easy to understand. dont over think it. no buts n what ifs. so when i say it doesnt matter, it doesnt matter. u think god will bend his rules for me u or anyone else? he works within his commandments. gods will, not my opinion should b apparent. so i have absolutely no opinion, my life, urs, this unfortunate young lady. it doesnt matter what i think, say or dont say or do, nor anyone else; for arguements sake..its useless to offer up an opinion. his will b done, not mine. so yes, it doesnt matter what i or u say. GOD will do what he wants to do, regardless of ur and my input. again for arguments sake...why would i offer an opinion when its useless? i have absolutely no control over anything. (thats my way of giving u somethin to disagree with). all i can do is fall in line, n b d best christian i can b, even if its very hard to come to terms with every tidbit i learn.

    October 26, 2012 at 6:21 am |
  19. oblivious

    what is my opinion? enlighten me pls. i simply stated 1 of d ten commandments, i didnt pull my prior statement out of a hat. nor did i put a spin on it to make it my own, therefor it is NOT an opinion. though shalt not kill is a quote directly from d 10 commandments which is directly word for word from whats called a bible. all credit goes to d almighty. if u dont or better yet, cant believe in GOD so b it. to b crystal, though shalt not kill is GODs will not mine, n i certainly didnt have any input those thousands of years ago

    October 26, 2012 at 5:50 am |
    • Damocles

      Sorry, I'll go slow for you. Your opinion was that something written in a book was the only way to go.

      I would say something about your particular deity being responsible for a whole bunch of killing as written in that same book, but you would probably say something along the lines of 'oh he doesn't have to follow his own rules' or some other nonsense.

      Anyway, get to work on letting all those prisoners out.

      October 26, 2012 at 6:06 am |
    • oblivious

      take it up with god, its not my opinion, n i cant speak for him. perhaps u think my faith is misguided, so b it. talk to him, not me. though shalt not kill is crystal to me, interpret it anyway u choose n make it ur own. put ur spin on it n c where that road leads u. ur responsible for urself n ur beliefs n non beliefs. n good luck n god bless. g nite

      October 26, 2012 at 6:31 am |
    • Ting

      perhaps u think my faith is misguided,

      It is hard to understand why people want to worship a god that has done so many evil things.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:20 am |
    • ME II

      @oblivious,
      Your opinion comes into play in at least two places.
      1) It is your opinion on which translation/version of the "Bible" is accurate. for example, many would argue that the commandment actual says "Thou shalt not murder", which is different from not killing.
      2) It is your opinion that your version is actually the word of God.

      October 26, 2012 at 10:34 am |
  20. oblivious

    though shalt not kill. bottom line. game over. wheres d arguement? mine n ur opinions dont matter. not to seem heartless, but thats that. NO EXCEPTIONS, NO BUTS...

    October 26, 2012 at 5:14 am |
    • Damocles

      @oblivious

      So you offer up an opinion and then say it doesn't matter. Fantastic.

      That rousing cheer you just heard is all those 'shucks we are as sorry as we can be' death row inmates who totally agree with you that they should be given a second chance and put back on the streets to hone their abilities.

      Oblivious.... perfect screen name.

      October 26, 2012 at 5:21 am |
    • ScepticStill

      "thou shalt not kill" as the king james version has it. moses came down from the mountain with this commandment, amongst others, yet when he reached the promised land he ordered genocide and slavery as a means of conquering.
      joshua was no better. what of the laws of god in deuteronomy requiring people to be stoned to death?

      what do you mean "though shalt not kill. bottom line. game over."

      October 26, 2012 at 6:13 am |
    • WASP

      @obliv: "though shalt not kill. bottom line. game over."
      then you have a major issue if you eat anything that is alive..................because you have to either wait for it to die naturally or kill it yourself.
      yes, that even goes for you vegen freaks. plants are alive and you kill them to eat them, i guess you could eat dirt i hear it.................well tastes like dirt. lmfao

      October 26, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • Moses disagrees with you

      And Moses said unto them “Have ye saved all the women alive?... Now therefore Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him, but all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves” Num 31:1-2, 9-11, 14-18

      October 26, 2012 at 11:19 am |
    • truth be told

      The command is not to murder as in one another as in Gods people. Execution by the state for crimes committed was commanded , Moses was the highest const ituted authority, Moses pronouncement of legal sentence was not murder but morally authorized execution. Killing in war is not murder as war is a state sanctioned event.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to;
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert"

      This troll is not a christian.

      October 26, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • WASP

      @TB: it reads "THOU SHALL NOT KILL." how hard is that to understand. there is no reading into it, no twisting it. the command is simple and even an idiot like you could understand it.
      it doesn't say "thou shall not kill..........................but only during government sactioned events, it's allowed."
      how fracking dense are you, it is clear as day written in the simplest terms possible and you christian freaks can't even get it correct; thankfully your god isn't real otherwise he may have some choice words for you "followers of christ" that don't truly follow christ. lmfao

      October 26, 2012 at 12:25 pm |
    • truth be told

      @wus p
      The original language was Hebrew not English, but you have to have some measure of intelligence to understand that.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:28 pm |
    • WASP

      @truthfully not very bright: ummmm ofcourse you have to have intellgience to understand that EVEN IN HEBREW it is written simplisticly. it still reads "THOU SHALL NOT KILL."
      but thanks for playing our game and thelma tell him what he's won..............
      well bob he won a meal for one at our crow buffet, where he can sit and choke on it until he is full.........back to you bob. XD
      you are such a good laugh TBT maybe you should try comedy.

      October 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.