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My Take: Counting the Bible's words doesn't yield a Republican Jesus
How many times do hot-button issues come up in the Bible?
November 5th, 2012
09:43 AM ET

My Take: Counting the Bible's words doesn't yield a Republican Jesus

Editor's note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "The American Bible: How Our Words Unite, Divide, and Define a Nation," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.

By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN

(CNN) Over the last few days I have fielded hundreds of angry e-mails from pro-Mitt Romney evangelicals about a recent Belief Blog post in which I took Billy Graham and other white evangelicals to task for turning Jesus into a water boy for the Republican Party.

A disturbing number of these complaints about my alleged "evangelical bashing" have been hateful, ill-informed and explicitly racist. But the more intelligent responses have taken two tacks.

First, readers have told me that they are voting for Romney not because Mormonism is proper Christianity but because Romney is the lesser of two evils. Some in this camp, convinced (wrongly) that President Barack Obama is a Muslim, say they would rather vote for a Mormon than a Muslim.

Second, readers have argued that Romney's political views are more biblical. And repeatedly they have referred me to two central issues: abortion and same-sex marriage.

One pastor who reports he is working on a doctorate in theology says he believes “that the Bible is the literal word of God.” Because of this belief, he will vote for Romney: “ If you claim Christ as your king, how on earth can you justify the murder of God given life through abortion or any other means?" he writes. "If you accept Christ as your king, how on earth can you accept the moral deviancy of homosexuality as normal?”

In my book "American Jesus," I demonstrated how American views of Jesus, rather than adhering strictly to the unchanging biblical witness, have shifted with the cultural and political winds. Over the course of U.S. history Jesus has been a socialist and a capitalist, a pacifist and a warrior.

In other words, he has been used, by both the left and the right. Or, as I put it, “The American Jesus is more a pawn than a king, pushed around in a complex game of cultural (and countercultural) chess, sacrificed here for this cause and there for another.”

This problem of mistaking your God for the God the problem, that is, of idolatry was captured beautifully by Albert Schweitzer, who suggested that scholars on a quest for the “historical Jesus” were looking down into a deep well and seeing not the real Jesus but reflections of themselves.

This is what is happening, in my view, to my angry evangelical readers. In this case, however, they are looking down the well and seeing some mashup of Ronald Reagan and Romney. Instead of the biblical Christ, they are seeing the Republican Jesus.

There are many ways to support my argument that the preoccupations of the Christian Right today are not the preoccupations of the Bible.

One is to point out that abortion is never even mentioned in the Bible. (Yes, Jeremiah 1:5 reads, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,” but when did that formation happen? At conception? At quickening? At birth?)

Another is to point out that American evangelicals didn’t care about the abortion question until the GOP taught them to care.

As Jonathan Dudley observes in a recent Belief Blog post, U.S. Catholic leaders began to take on abortion right after Roe v. Wade legalized it in 1973, but American evangelical leaders continued to teach that life begins at birth until the late 1970s and early 1980s. If the Bible clearly teaches us that our politics should center on the abortion question, why did it take nearly 2,000 years for Bible believers to figure this out?

Here is my basic proposition: Bible-believing Christians who want to base their politics on the Bible ought to get the Bible straight, which is to say (a) correct and (b) directly from the page, rather than filtered through the spin of the GOP.

To this end, I would like to challenge them to look at an amazing website, part of “The Official King James Bible Online,” which lists each and every word in that translation of the Bible in order of popularity.

Not surprisingly, “and” and “the” are the top two.  But how do more meaningful words rank?

Abortion, of course, is not on the list. Neither is homosexuality, though there are, I will admit, perhaps a couple dozen references to what we now call male homosexuality (and either one or zero to lesbianism, depending on how you read Romans 1:26).

So these issues are not central. But which issues are? Well, faith, grace and salvation, for starters. (They appear 231, 159 and 158 times, respectively.)

But if you turn to the political questions that beset us today, what does this quantitative approach to the Bible yield? First and foremost, a preoccupation with "war” (280 times) and “peace” (470). Second, a preoccupation with economics, and especially with the rich (109) and the poor (233).

The Bible also seems far more concerned with “prison” and “prisoners” (109) than we are in U.S. politics today. And, I might add, with famine (101).

Finally, the Bible mentions Israel a lot (2,509 times) even more than heaven (644). So that seems to be something that both candidates got right in the third debate.

To conclude, I have no problem with evangelical Christians voting for Romney. My complaint arises when they say they are doing so because the Bible commands them to vote for the candidate who is opposed to abortion rights and opposes same-sex marriage.

The Bible itself is relatively unconcerned with these matters. It is far more concerned with questions of poverty and wealth, war and peace, and (need I add?) theology.

If you think otherwise, it's not the Bible speaking. It's the political operative at the bottom of the well.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.

- CNN Belief Blog contributor

Filed under: 2012 Election • Bible • Economy • Jesus • Mitt Romney • Opinion • Politics • United States

soundoff (1,060 Responses)
  1. old golfer

    And even the devil can quote scripture to suit his own purposes. Been going on for hundreds of years. There is no concrete evidence that any book is the word of God. I personally doubt that any book is the word of God. God gave man reason. Man gave man religion.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • just sayin

      God gave man the law on Mount Sinai, written on tablets by His own hand and stored in the ark of the covenant.

      November 5, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  2. OccupyEverything

    Let's base our vote off of a how a mythological person would've voted. Makes sense to me.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • Russ

      @ occupy: from a life-long myth expert... (CS Lewis)
      "I have been reading poems, romances, vision-literature, legends, myths all my life. I know what they are like. I know that not one of them is like this. Of this text there are only two possible views. Either this is reportage... pretty close up to the facts; nearly as close as Boswell. Or else, some unknown writer in the second century, without known predecessors, or successors, suddenly anticipated the whole technique of modern, novelistic, realistic narrative. If it is untrue, it must be narrative of that kind. The reader who doesn't see this has simply not learned to read."
      http://orthodox-web.tripod.com/papers/fern_seed.html

      November 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      Invalid, this is an appeal to authority.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Honey Badger: I thought you didn't care.

      What do you mean by "an appeal to authority?" The appeal to CS Lewis' opinion (as a well read scholar in the field, aka scientific investigation) or the appeal to the facts: that the Gospel accounts don't fit the characteristics of ancient myth?

      November 5, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Momof3

      @ Russ – that the Gospel accounts don't fit the characteristics of ancient myth.

      If that's the case, then I guess you agree with the Virgin Birth stories that come from other world religions that mirror the one in the bible? Or, the gods that consorted with humans, resulting in a demi-god/human birth:
      Hindusm – Krishna
      Sufism – Kabir
      Buddhism – Buddha
      Indian – Mithra
      Egypt – Osiris/Isis – Horus
      Greco/Roman gods – Heracles/Hercules, Dionysus, Persephone...etc (it's a long list...)

      November 5, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Russ

      @ momof3:
      it is not by virtue simply of the virgin birth that i'm making that argument. read the entirety of CS Lewis' essay (one that he gave before biblical scholars at Cambridge) in the link above.

      he's claiming that no myth reads like this. it's only parallel in fiction is modern, realistic fiction – something that does not develop for another 1700 years. so, either the Gospel writers were literary geniuses (with no known successors for 1700 years or predecessors) or they were giving historical accounts.

      none of those other accounts give the same manner of detail. for example, Homer never has detail like this: "Odysseus came out of the Cyclops cave around 3 or 3:30pm and rowed out about a mile and a half." but you find that sort of detail pervasive in these accounts. it bears all the markings of eyewitness testimony (reportage), not legends that arose hundreds of years after the fact.

      there's more to consider, but instead of me recapitulating it, just read his essay.

      November 5, 2012 at 5:02 pm |
  3. Shorty

    That's too wordy, Mr. Prothero. Allow me to edit it for you:

    "Buy my new book."

    November 5, 2012 at 2:14 pm |
  4. greg

    For me, the NT, Jesus, has a simple message: the highest commanded is love. We can act in fear or love throughout our daily lives, in our moment by moment choices. Fear is addictive. It is sugar to our mind, to our ego. I have yet to see or meet anyone who felt stopping gay marriage and abortion was important and who did so with a loving mind. Plenty of fear, and it's siblings, anger, outrage, self-righteous, among a few of them. For me, these impulses come from politics instead of from God. It is a central issue I have also with Islam that seems so rife with the co-mingling of faith and politcs.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • DUMP hINDU FABRICATION MITHRA ISM, SAVIOR ISM, CHRISTIANITY, VOTE FOR TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD

      Love, submit to who? truth absolute God, but hindu Christians believe it to be chasing a woman in to bed.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:18 pm |
  5. Honey Badger Dont Care

    The bible not only doesn’t prohibit abortion is explicitly commands it:

    Hosea 13:16
    New International Version (NIV)
    16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
    because they have rebelled against their God.
    They will fall by the sword;
    their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
    their pregnant women ripped open.”[a]

    2 Kings 15:16
    New International Version (NIV)
    16 At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.

    Psalm 137:9
    King James Version (KJV)
    9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

    2 Kings 6:28
    New International Version (NIV)
    28 Then he asked her, “What’s the matter?”
    She answered, “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we’ll eat my son.’.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
    • Ben

      Reading a description of what people did with their own free will is NOT the same as God prescribing it.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • Rufus T. Firefly

      Okay, Ben. That applies to the words of Paul too, right?

      November 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      Yea, they were gods chosen people. If you can read the bible and not come up with the conclusion that the god of the old testament isn't a homicidal, egotistical a hole then you are seriously delusional.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
  6. Only the Bible?

    I think Prothero is on the right track, yet naive. So are the vast majority of evangelical Christians. The Bible has been around so long, been translated, copied, edited, compiled, and misused by so many people over the centuries that it is only a shadow of God's word. People need to keep in mind that the Bible is only a collection of words from a variety of prophets.

    Relying solely on the bible for making decisions is like trying to reach the north pole with only an ancient map of the old world. Personal revelation and prophetic revelation (both mentioned throughout the bible) are the tools God intends us to use to make decisions, after we have done our best researching the problem ourselves.

    The bible is merely a touchstone to keep us on track. It should not be our only means of decision making.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
  7. DocHollywood

    Ok, two main points here.

    1) quote "say they would rather vote for a Mormon than a Muslim.".....this shows the ignorance of the electorate, particularly on the right. And these people are the ones trying their best to restrict voters. If you don't know Obama is a Christian, you're either ignorant or willingly ignoring a fact to fit your belief.

    2). quote “ If you claim Christ as your king, how on earth can you justify the murder of God given life through abortion or any other means?"... And yet the majority of those who are so ardently pro life have no problem with the death penalty, and no problem sending young men and women into wars for their religious beliefs. I would take the "or any other means" to mean that you cannot support the taking of life at ANY cost. So if you have one exception, why can't others?

    November 5, 2012 at 2:10 pm |
    • DUMP hINDU FABRICATION MITHRA ISM, SAVIOR ISM, CHRISTIANITY, VOTE FOR TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD

      Typical of hindu, ignorant Christians, they know hinduism, absurdity called bible contradicts it self, but they keep on preaching , but they never follow it them self. Way of hindu Magi's, criminal tricksters, just as were the writer of hinduism, absurdity called bible.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • masadaone

      No, Obama is not a Christian (at least not in the biblical sense – and is there any other?). Read: Obama on Faith – The Exclusive Interview.

      http://cathleenfalsani.com/obama-on-faith-the-exclusive-interview/

      November 5, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
  8. God's Oldest Dreamer

    The more things seem to change the more wool gets pulled over the eyes of those who care not to willfully change things. As many bubbles do & will burst, making more bubble machines isn't the answer! Dumb policymakers and dumber still are social promoters for policymakers and the dumbest of all are those who dare to vote for the 'other' guy!

    November 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
  9. Cindy

    Jesus is the same yestaerday, today and tomorrow. People like to mold Him to fit their societies and lifestyles. It doesn't work that way . We are supposed to mold out lifestyles to fit God's word. That's just the way it works whether you believe it or not, and it's your choice to believe or not believe.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Cindy wrote, "We are supposed to mold out lifestyles to fit God's word."

      Molds do grow in many places and many molds give us illnesses. Malleable-cunning is far and away more superior than dirty molds are. Christ Jesus is all landlords' CEO for all the buildings we call our bodies. 1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building. Who among us can deny we are but mere buildings inhabited by the Godly of God's families? Are we really that dumb to deny such a Truth of Truths?

      November 5, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      molding ourselves to align with iron age man's view of "god" results in spiritual and cultural stagnation

      November 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • Jack

      People don't want to believe the Gospel because it's about reconciliation with the same God from whom they are running. That's why nearly every argument against the Gospel is shot through with dishonesty and game-playing, to such an extent that no fair-minded person can deny the dishonesty and the game-playing.

      December 5, 2012 at 4:50 am |
    • 0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls

      People don't believe The Goofiness because there is not a single bit of evidence that The Babble and its gods are not fiction. None, zip, nada – just a bunch of unsupported assertions believed by mentally ill (delusional) believers, spread by liars.

      December 5, 2012 at 6:11 am |
  10. Scholar

    At times, evangelicals seem to be praying a lot to someone other than God.

    Jesus was a devout Jew. His teachings we revere, especially how we are taught to pray from the Sermon on the Mount, to God, our Father, in the Lord's Prayer, and we end every prayer with the Hebrew word Amen.

    We do not so much follow Jesus as we follow what was taught us by this Jewish rabbi.

    November 5, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Cindy

      Jesus is the Son of God, not a Jewish rabbi.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:09 pm |
    • sybaris

      The alleged Jesus was an Essene priest with a savior complex, the David Koresh of his day, nothing more.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:16 pm |
    • Momof3

      No, Cindy...Jesus was a Jewish peasant, and even his followers called him 'teacher', which in Hebrew means 'my master', and in, how a student would address his teacher'. Jesus was literally a Jewish rabbi..

      November 5, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Momof3

      OOps...edited the sentance and left out some words!

      Jesus was a Jewish peasant, and even his followers called him 'teacher'. Rabbi, which in Hebrew means 'my master', is how a student would address his teacher. Jesus was literally a Jewish rabbi..

      Also, the god you're referring to (as in 'son of god'), was a Jewish god at the time...

      November 5, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
  11. DUMP hINDU FABRICATION MITHRA ISM, SAVIOR ISM, CHRISTIANITY, VOTE FOR TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD

    DUMP hINDU FABRICATION MITHRA ISM, SAVIOR ISM, CHRISTIANITY, VOTE FOR TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD
    Eliminate hindu Judaism, filthy secular ism to have peace, Islam among humanity. hindu's blinded leading hindu, blinded, game of hindu Magi's, criminal tricksters to stay in business of hinduism, denial of truth absolute, let it be hindu's, ignorant preachers, speaking not of truth absolute GOD, nor hindu atheist, ignorant self centered, secular s. rode with a hindu blinded driver, BET ON A WRACK, YOU WILL NEVER LOOSE.

    Expect nothing better but mayhem among humanity by following of hinduism, denial of truth absolute, Allah, and following of hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism, neither commanded, nor allowed in Islam as a religion, but Theen Allah, consti tution of truth absolute. Foundation of American consti tution.
    Shiaism
    hindu Mithra ism, savior ism invented little over 100 years after Sydana Mohammad pbh by tribes of Kujar of north Africa and imposition as Fatmid Khalaphit by force by denial of Hidth and Quran, justified by hindu Judaism, pagan secularism to impose hinduism, racism by hindu, fabricated relationship with Family of Syadana Mohammad pbh to justify existence of hindu criminal Kings, a violation of fundamental commandment, human equality under the LA. truth absolute Allah. Cause of conflict among Muslim's and cause of down fall of Muslim's and Islam in Spain.

    Sunisim, invented by Turk's by corruption of Quran and hidth to justify existence of hindu King's as Khalipha, after death of Ruler Mohammad, but later renamed, Mehmmat, wisdom of spirit of truth by siblings from his Armenian wife, follower of hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism in 13th century.

    Christianity, invented by hinduism,. corruption of truth absolute by hindu Pharisees, pagan self centered, follower of hindu filthy pig ism by corrupted Torah, known as Greek Torah, translated and commented by Ben Asheer in 250 AD in Yiddish, secularist, self centered language, also known as Old Testament, part of book of Mithra ism labeled as Bible. A way to justify hindu criminal Kings and self proclaimed Prophets, fortune tellers as god's to rule over humanity.

    JUDAISM, Self center ism, pig ism, or Atheism, invented by hindu's pagan's of Egypt by corruption of truth absolute in Torah to Justify hindu pagan Pharaoh's and their hindu pagan Santans, goons as god's to rule over humanity with impunity.

    HAVE hINDUISM, CORRUPTION OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE, RELIGIONS AND LIVE WITH MAYHEM, AS HAS BEEN THE CASE FROM hIND, DARK AGES TILL TODAY. FOLLOW THEEN ALLAH, CONSTI TUTION OF TRUTH ABSOLUTE, ALLAH , GOD AND THE LORD, FOUNDATION OF CONSTI TUTION OF AMERICA TO HAVE PEACE AMONG HUMANITY. To learn more please visit truthisthelimit.com
    word hindu is based on Latin word hindered, negative, Hun, great, Han, to be in greatness, hin, to be negative to both of them, hindu, a noun in negativity, hinduism, way of negativity.
    Visit limitisthetruth.com to learn about hinduism, criminality of hindu's, criminals to impose hinduism, racism on humanity by hinduism, corruption of truth absolute by force.

    November 5, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • kenny

      you need to get back on your meds... seriously you are delusional... and seeing things that aren't there but created in your mind and its probably making your life miserable.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
  12. Bill Deacon

    Sam, your question is based on the faulty assumption that somehow 21st century man is intrinsically superior to iron age man. The truth is that there is not that much difference between you and your pre-new world ancestors. Evil and sin lie in the heart of every man and the path of that evil leads towards slavery and death. The OT laws were given to make mankind aware of his sinful nature and the New Testament of Jesus Christ resurrected tells us the good news that by His blood we are free of that condemnation. The reason the Gospel is relevant to day is because of you sam! As long as there are people alive who need to hear that they have been redeemed and are no longer under the dominion of man's own incomplete, selfish and violent nature, the Gospel will need to be shared.

    This is the part where you say you don't need to be redeemed. The reason you say that is because you do not bear the burden of your conviction as of yet.

    November 5, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      oops, reply fail. posting below

      November 5, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Evil and sin lie in the heart of every man and the path of that evil leads towards slavery and death."

      Why do you believe that?

      November 5, 2012 at 1:50 pm |
    • sam stone

      "The reason you say that is because you do not bear the burden of your conviction as of yet."

      My beliefs are my beliefs. They are not a burden to me.

      If your beliefs are a burden to you, perhaps you should re-examine them

      November 5, 2012 at 1:51 pm |
    • sybaris

      There was no redemption. Your Jesus man sacrificed nothing. Your god recreated itself by raping another mans wife then sacrificed itself to itself to atone for an alleged sin it created. Regardless, your god used the shell of flesh then returned to its natural state, yeah some sacrifice. It's all hokum anyway.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • richunix

      OK, who wrote the Gospel then?

      November 5, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • DUMP hINDU FABRICATION MITHRA ISM, SAVIOR ISM, CHRISTIANITY, VOTE FOR TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD

      Old TESTAMENT IS hINDUISM, CORRUPTION OF TRUE tORAH, AND REJECT OF SON OF BLESSED MARY, AND NT IS HINDUISM, FABRICATION OF hINDU'S, PAGANS TO SPREAD HINDU mITHRA ism, PAGAN SAVIOR ISM CALLED CHRISTIANITY, A hIND, CRIME AGAINST TRUTH ABSOLUTE GOD AND HIS HUMANITY.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      When one slips down the ladder and winds up in the sump of vulgarities decadence and the ladder gets pulled up, wherethen will be one's faith and prayers lead you? Been there and done that! And you?

      November 5, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @richunix

      We don't know, and neither do any of the "biblical scholars" (pretty useless profession really).

      November 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • kenny

      since we have much greater knowledge and control of the world around us, yes we are better than our ancestors. we do much fewer bad things to each other than any time or place in history. Religion is basically fairy tales for adults who can't accept/handle the reality of being mortal and ceasing to exist ... forever...

      November 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
  13. Rummy Pirate Times-Dispatch

    "In Greed We Trust"

    In 1994, Bain invested $27 million as part of a deal with other firms to acquire Dade International, a medical-diagnostics-equipment firm, from its parent company, Baxter International. Bain ultimately made nearly 10 times its money, getting back $230 million. But Dade wound up laying off more than 1,600 people and filed for bankruptcy protection in 2002, amid crushing debt and rising interest rates. The company, with Bain in charge, had borrowed heavily to do acquisitions, accumulating $1.6 billion in debt by 2000. The company cut benefits for some workers at the acquired firms and laid off others. When it merged with Behring Diagnostics, a German company, Dade shut down three U.S. plants. At the same time, Dade paid out $421 million to Bain Capital’s investors and investing partners.

    For 15 years, Romney had been in the business of creative destruction and wealth creation. But what about his claims of job creation? Though Bain Capital surely helped expand some companies that had created jobs, the layoffs and closures at other firms would lead Romney’s political opponents to say that he had amassed a fortune in part by putting people out of work. The lucrative deals that made Romney wealthy could exact a cost. Maximizing financial return to investors could mean slashing jobs, closing plants, and moving production overseas. It could also mean clashing with union workers, serving on the board of a company that ran afoul of federal laws, and loading up already struggling companies with debt.

    Marc Wolpow, a former Bain partner who worked with Romney on many deals, said the discussion at buyout companies typically does not focus on whether jobs will be created. “It’s the opposite—what jobs we can cut,” Wolpow said. “Because you had to document how you were going to create value. Eliminating redundancy, or the elimination of people, is a very valid way."

    A couple of examples (it's pretty easy to find more):

    Bain closed GST Steel plant in 2001 laying off 750 workers.

    Controlling share owner Bain Capital closes BRP plant (Southern Illinois) so the 340 jobs there could be outsourced to Mexico.

    Also, this is disconcerting:

    http://www.examiner.com/article/mitt-romney-implicated-perjury-and-stock-fraud-made-millions-process
    http://globalgrind.com/news/mitt-romney-lied-perjury-under-oath-divorce-court-case-tom-stemberg-details

    BAIN'S INVESTOR "SUCCESSES" WERE PRIMARILY CONTINGENT ON MASS LAY-OFFS OF WORKERS

    November 5, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Flip the damn coin already for God's sake! Heads they win and tails we lose! Either way it lands makes no fvcking differences!

      November 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
  14. sam stone

    topher: how do you feel that was was moral to iron age man in a middle eastern agrarian society has any relevance to 21st century man in an industrial/technological society?

    November 5, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      The more things seem to change the more wool gets in the eyes of those who care not to change things. As many bubbles will burst, make more bubble machines! Damningly dumb buildings most people are!

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:41 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Sam, your question is based on the faulty assumption that somehow 21st century man is intrinsically superior to iron age man. The truth is that there is not that much difference between you and your pre-new world ancestors. Evil and sin lie in the heart of every man and the path of that evil leads towards slavery and death. The OT laws were given to make mankind aware of his sinful nature and the New Testament of Jesus Christ resurrected tells us the good news that by His blood we are free of that condemnation. The reason the Gospel is relevant to day is because of you sam! As long as there are people alive who need to hear that they have been redeemed and are no longer under the dominion of man's own incomplete, selfish and violent nature, the Gospel will need to be shared.

      This is the part where you say you don't need to be redeemed. The reason you say that is because you do not bear the burden of your conviction as of yet.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Sam, your question is based on the faulty assumption that somehow 21st century man is intrinsically superior to iron age man"

      Your inference is not my implication. I said nothing about 21st man being intrinsically superior to iron age man. In fact, you imply that iron age man was in a better position to determine "sin" than 21st century man

      November 5, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • sam stone

      "The reason the Gospel is relevant to day is because of you sam! As long as there are people alive who need to hear that they have been redeemed and are no longer under the dominion of man's own incomplete, selfish and violent nature, the Gospel will need to be shared."

      "blah, blah, blah....we need to preach to those who do not accept our tales. after all, we speak for god"

      so, we are not under man's violent nature, but we are under man's edited translated hearsay

      November 5, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • Topher

      Because God gave us morality and sets the standard. What was moral then is moral now. Technology has nothing to do with it.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • WASP

      @toph: i can't help it. you're an idiot. your statement is no where near true. " what was moral then is moral now".
      really?
      slavery was moral then, as well as "eye for an eye", selling your children to others was allowed, having multiple wives was permitted. etc etc etc.
      how many times did your mother drop you on your head? seriously. the ignorance of some "believers"

      November 5, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Topher

      WASP

      Your cruelness aside, just because things like slavery existed doesn't mean they were moral. Something isn't moral because a lot of people are for it. It is moral because it is right. Unless you'd like to argue that slavery was right and good ...

      November 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Topher

      Your god obviously didn't find it worthy of saying something as simple as "You know, it's not good to own other people as property. So you know, just don't do it".

      November 5, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • sam stone

      "What was moral then is moral now"

      Do you really believe that?

      Do you feel the same about morality as did you grandparents? That was two generations. Imagine what changes in 100 generations

      November 5, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "Do you really believe that?"

      Yes, I do.

      "Do you feel the same about morality as did you grandparents? That was two generations. Imagine what changes in 100 generations."

      I didn't really know my grandparents, but I think I know what you are saying. Yes, my generation and my grandparents' generations were very different. But morality is the same. Let's take one example. S.ex before marriage. It's far more prevalent now and more widely accepted as OK now, but that doesn't make it morally right. What we think is OK does not change its morality. Morality is a standard set by God and our opinion on it doesn't change it. It is either right or wrong.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • sam stone

      "S.ex before marriage. It's far more prevalent now and more widely accepted as OK now, but that doesn't make it morally right"

      Nor does it make it morally wrong

      November 5, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Morality is a standard set by God and our opinion on it doesn't change it. It is either right or wrong."

      Morality is a standard set by humans at a certain place and time. It most certainly changes

      November 5, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Topher

      It's wrong because God says so. And He's right. Emotionally and physically it is better to wait.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • sam stone

      "It's wrong because God says so"

      Man purporting to speak for god said so.

      "Emotionally and physically it is better to wait."

      Says who?

      November 5, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Yay Topher finally admits that there is no such thing as objective morality, even within his religion.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Topher

      "Says who?"

      God. Doctors (physicians and psychiatrists). Your elders. Do you need more?

      November 5, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam stone

      "God. Doctors (physicians and psychiatrists). Your elders. Do you need more?"

      You do not speak for god

      You imply the physicans and psychiatrists are in agreement about this. If this is what you are claiming, supply the support for this

      My elders? So, they felt something was wrong.....does that make them correct?

      What you need, Topher, is some humility.

      I very much doubt that you will acquire it, though

      November 5, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Huebert

      Morality, an absolute standard of right and wrong, does not exist. Ethics, what action should be preformed given a certain set of circ.umstances, are what matter.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
    • Topher

      sam stone

      "You do not speak for god."

      I don't have to. He already did it in 66 books.

      "You imply the physicans and psychiatrists are in agreement about this. If this is what you are claiming, supply the support for this"

      Oh, c'mon! Seriously? You really need me to provide you with support on this? Did you take Health in middle school?

      "My elders? So, they felt something was wrong.....does that make them correct?"

      Not necessarily. But they'd be write on this one since they agree with God.

      "What you need, Topher, is some humility."

      I don't understand. Who has more humility than a Christian to acknowledge what we acknowledge? Unless I am completely missing your point, it is the atheist who claims to be so much smarter than everyone else who needs a bit of humility.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I don't have to. He already did it in 66 books"

      No, man did it in 66 books.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I don't understand."
      That is obvious

      "Who has more humility than a Christian to acknowledge what we acknowledge?"
      Anyone who believes they don't know the mind of god.

      "Unless I am completely missing your point"
      Wouldn't be the first time...

      "it is the atheist who claims to be so much smarter than everyone else who needs a bit of humility."
      It is not a matter of people claiming to be smarter. It is not seeing a reason to believe what atheists find unbelievable.

      Aren't you claiming to be more spiritual than those who do not accept the supposed authority of the bible? How does that make you humble?

      November 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Wow Topher, your cognitive dissonance is completely off the charts right now.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
    • Topher

      I don't claim to be more spiritual than anyone. Being spiritual doesn't do anyone any good anyway. But if someone does not accept the authority of the Bible I'd say I'm more trusting of God than that person. I have every reason to be believe the Bible is not only true but the very Word of God.

      Anyway, I've got to be off to work in a few minutes. Good conversation, dude, thanks. Have a good day and God bless.

      November 5, 2012 at 3:59 pm |
    • sam stone

      "But if someone does not accept the authority of the Bible I'd say I'm more trusting of God than that person."

      When god tells you in person, rather than through the bible (which has, after all, been altered more times than a Norfolk streetwalker when the fleet is in), let me know.

      "I have every reason to be believe the Bible is not only true but the very Word of God."
      Good for you. Which version?

      November 5, 2012 at 4:06 pm |
    • Bill Deacon

      Sam, I don't argue that iron age man was in a better position to recognize sin. What I argue is that 21st century man is in the same position his ancestor was; with an ardent desire to deny his sin. Someone said that with technology we now treat each other better than we did in ages past and the implication is that as we advance in science we will treat each other better. The truth is just the opposite. As humanity has advanced technologically, we have destroyed more of the planet and more of our fellows at a faster clip and more efficiently goes the destruction.

      This is not an appeal for you to accept the Gospel, some men's hearts are permanently hardened. But your question wasn't to illicit a compelling argument for acceptance. Your question was why should age old truths apply today. I believe I have provided an answer since you yourself admitted that modern man is not morally superior to ancient man and history shows that you are correct. Certainly you are not making the case that man is not evil are you?

      November 5, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Certainly you are not making the case that man is not evil are you?"

      In a sense, I am.

      There are evil people
      I don't think people in general are evil.

      Do you?

      November 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • sam stone

      "What I argue is that 21st century man is in the same position his ancestor was; with an ardent desire to deny his sin."

      And what I am arguing is that people's idea of what is "sin" varies by time and location. And, what was supposedly sinful for a middle eastern agrarian society is not necessarily sinful for 21st century society

      November 5, 2012 at 4:25 pm |
    • sam stone

      Also, Bill, the word is elicit, not illicit

      November 5, 2012 at 4:26 pm |
    • sam stone

      "I have provided an answer since you yourself admitted that modern man is not morally superior to ancient man"

      Nor are they morally inferior to ancient man

      November 5, 2012 at 4:33 pm |
  15. The Truth

    The only thing more polarizing than the republican and democratic parties is Christianity here in America. It's almost the easiest way to be hated by someone, take any moral or religious position on anything, or even worse, don't take a position, and in comes the hate. Well as often as the Christians like to use the "No true Scotsman" rhetoric in declaring others non-Christian, I would like to do the same and say NONE OF YOU RELIGIOUS PRETENDERS ARE A TRUE AMERICANS! I think the facts back up my statement far more than you folk claiming others aren't Christian as the majority of you flat out reject the founders intention of keeping Church and State separate. If you do not want the Church and State to be separate then MOVE TO IRAN!!!

    November 5, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
    • Ken

      The only people who want to tear down the wall between Church and State are the guys who want THEIR Church to be influential over the State, and the politicians who want to to manipulate churches for their own gain.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
  16. Reality

    prof" P noted:

    "One is to point out that abortion is never even mentioned in the Bible. (Yes, Jeremiah 1:5 reads, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,” but when did that formation happen? At conception? At quickening? At birth?)"

    Hmmm, somewhere in the bible in notes: "THOU SHALT NOT KILL" (human life in any of its forms) and injuring a pregnant woman (and her womb-baby) as per Exodus 21: 22-24 warrants significant punishment.

    New International Version (NIV)

    22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you ARE TO TAKE LIFE FOR LIFE, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,"

    Considering, however, the "prof" P never professes what he believes, he may not even believe in the bible so why is quoting from it??

    November 5, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Ken

      Come on, Reality, we all know that God didn't forbid killing. He led the Israelites to killing thousands of Canaanite men, women and children. He even killed countless Egyptian first born. Killing babies doesn't bother the Lord, according to the bible.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Joe from CT, not Lieberman

      When it comes to interpretation of the Old Testament, in particular the five Books of Moses, I tend to prefer the teachings of Jewish Scholars. After all, they have many more centuries experience with it than we Christians do. Truth be told, some early Christian denominations wanted nothing to do with the Old Testament writings. It wasn't until the Book we refer to as the Bible was assembled from the various writings of the Jews, which "Gospels" to accept and which "Epistles" to accept as well. The Revelations of John almost didn't make it.

      Getting back to my original argument, though, Jewish Old Testament Scholars are of the opinion that the Soul does not enter the clay until God breaths life into us, based on Genesis 2:7 "then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being." Therefore, according to the Mosaic code, a fetus does not have "life", therefore there is no restriction against abortion.

      And as Ken noted, for a God who supposedly commanded us not to kill, he sure appeared to have authorized a lot of mass executions.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:46 pm |
    • Ken

      Joe from CT, not Lieberman
      It's not their fault that they don't understand the Old Testament. After all, as Louis Black likes to say, it's "not their book"! :-)

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrlWOhtj3g&w=640&h=390]

      November 5, 2012 at 2:02 pm |
    • Cindy

      You have to study the Old Testament to really understand what is going on in it. Besides, God is God and can pretty much do what he wants. The Old and New Testaments are very different and it's imortant to read and study them both.
      Reality pretty much hit the nail on the head.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
    • annoyedwithpeoplewhopostoncnn

      *correction*: thou shalt not murder. <- see the difference b/n murder and kill? Kill is mentioned in the KJV, which is by far the most inaccurate translation (seeing as how it was based on fewer manuscripts). AMP, NIV, and NASB <– most direct, all say murder. slightly different than killing.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:07 pm |
    • Matt

      I am surprised that Stephen Prothero's article was actually published by CNN. Did anyone other than Stephen actually read the article? His argument wouldn't pass in a fourth grade English class. He counts the number of times a word is used and then constructs his argument based on the outcome? What kind of logic is that? The Bible doesn't say anything about many different sins. Yet it does speak a great deal about sin itself.

      While I disagree with nearly everything Stephen wrote here, my biggest surprise is that someone with half a brain would read this and think of it as serious journalism.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
    • Russ

      @ Ken: Lewis Black's angle fails to deal with Jesus' argument.

      1) Jesus was a Jew. and He – as a Jew – claimed the whole OT was about him (Lk.24:27,44)

      2) Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders (who interpreted the OT the way they still do) that all their study had missed the whole point of the OT: him (Jn.5:39-40).

      And hence Mark Driscoll's response to that line of thinking below...
      (who is ironically has a similarly speaking style to Lewis Black)...
      Begin at the 2:20 mark...
      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_MLUuNKjZU&w=640&h=390]

      November 5, 2012 at 2:12 pm |
    • LivingHistory

      Exodus 21:22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

      I believe the "serious injury" this verse refers to is injury to the wife, not the unborn child. A pre-term unborn child would have had little to no value to the husband, but his wife's abiltiy to reproduce in the future would.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
    • NoTags

      The NIV is a very poor version of the Bible to use for reference.

      This Bible is published by Zondervan Corporation. It owns the rights to the New International Version (NIV).

      HarperCollins Publishing owns Zondervan Corporation. HarperCollins Publishing is owned by no other than Rupert Murdoch. You know him, he's the same one that owns Fox News.

      There are numerous changes in the NIV from the KJV which most people don't realize. The NIV is not a reliable translation of God's word.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Reality

      And now moving to the 21st century with the New Torah for Modern Minds:

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
      Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).

      The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      November 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Momof3

      @Matt – ...Did anyone other than Stephen actually read the article? – Apparently you did...

      While I disagree with nearly everything Stephen wrote here, my biggest surprise is that someone with half a brain would read this and think of it as serious journalism. – So, which half of your brain are you using at the moment?

      November 5, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
  17. sputnick1

    44 65 61 72 20 73 69 72 20 79 6F 75 20 61 72 65 20 61 20 74 6F 6C 74 61 6C 20 61 73 73 68 6F 6C 65 20 79 6F 75 20 68 61 76 65 20 6E 6F 20 62 61 6C 6C 73 20 67 6F 20 66 75 63 6B 20 79 6F 75 72 73 65 6C 66

    November 5, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
  18. JKNBTJKNBT

    I am a working man down here in a nasty chem plant on the gulf coast. I have been asked before "how can an hourly worker possibly vote republican?" My answer is to be found in Prothero's article....It used to be a one issue matter, but now after our first g ay (or formerly g ay) president has come out to support ga yness, especially g ay marriage, my reply now deals with two main issues:

    ho mo se xu ality is always mo rally wrong

    abo rtion is murder. period. stop it. stop it now.

    Hmm....it seems that republicans for the most part agree with me on these two issues more than the dems ever will. So there. That's why I vote republican. (and no, I don't agree with most of the rest of the republican big business/support the banker's cartel agenda).

    Here's hopin' that Romney gets in the White House and all the liberals on the Supreme Court resign the next day in protest!

    People wonder how the social security bill got so high. It has a lot to do with the fact that 50 million potential wage earners who would have contributed to social security have been put to death unjustly since 1974. Think about it.

    November 5, 2012 at 1:04 pm |
    • sputnick1

      44 65 61 72 20 73 69 72 20 79 6F 75 20 61 72 65 20 61 20 74 6F 6C 74 61 6C 20 61 73 73 68 6F 6C 65 20 79 6F 75 20 68 61 76 65 20 6E 6F 20 62 61 6C 6C 73 20 67 6F 20 66 75 63 6B 20 79 6F 75 72 73 65 6C 66

      November 5, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • save the world and slap some sense into a christard today!

      Who cares what a bigot thinks? lol.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • midwest rail

      Good grief.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • sam stone

      how is ho-mo-se-xuality morally wrong?

      abortion is not considered murder under the laws of the lan

      November 5, 2012 at 1:18 pm |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      too bad you never studied the Bible.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:19 pm |
    • Sick Things

      @JKNBTJKNBT

      You left out that you are a racist redneck.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • The Truth

      " It has a lot to do with the fact that 50 million potential wage earners who would have contributed to social security have been put to death unjustly since 1974. Think about it." LOL Do they not teach math down in the gulf? And how the heII did you get a job with that low an IQ? Just so you understand the issues, what does 50 million potential wage earners do when they get to 65? Oh yeah, become 50 million beneficiarys, you dumb a$$...

      November 5, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      How can aborting one of God's 'buildings' be said as an offense to God? Our being but buildings wherein each building has its' own superintendent/landlord will surely evict those who reside inside of God's building(s) should death come to any building prematurely. There are just too many damningly dumb buildings as of late and way too few intellectualized buildings to establish a governing structure for the commonwealths' sakes.

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      Lettuce Love,
      Let Us Love,
      G.O.D.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • Bridal Party

      Oh, please, do tell: who is our first gay (or formerly gay) President?
      Those chemical fumes have rotted your reasoning.
      You make zero sense at all.

      November 5, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • JKNBTJKNBT

      here are a few words of reply to those who commented:

      1) Sam, look it up in the scriptures. It was forbidden in the Law of Moses. The Apostles said that Christians are obliged to follow the moral law (see Acts 15). Paul says that people that do abomin ations are "given up" in Rom. 1. It would be a scary thing for God to give up on you. You may be close to that point already.

      The laws of men are trumped by the Law of God. "Thou shalt not kill" is an ethic held by all religions.

      2) Sick...people who fall back on name calling really have nothing to say in the first place. Name calling is always a last resort if you don't have anything intelligent to say. My next door neighbors are black, I live in an integrated neighborhood, I go to a multi-race, multi-cultural church that is mostly hispanic (and I'm not), and work in a thoroughly integrated crew. I get along well with all these people. How many blacks or hispanics go to your church? How many are in your neighborhood, assuming you are white? You are just a hater.

      3) Truth...the 50 million would be replaced in the workforce by 100 million. They would keep social security solvent. Someday you are going to retire, and you will wish that there were an extra 50 million people paying into social security when you get your skimpy retirement check (if you get anything at all).

      4) Dreamer....If you and your family get caught in the crossfire of a drive by shooting someday, and your daughter is killed by a stray bullet, are you going to say, "oh well, it was only a building that died. I have as much feeling for the matter as if they had knocked down a dilapidated hotel downtown. Que sera, sera. Too bad." I don't think so. Imagine how the Heavenly Father feels when he sees an innocent baby torn to bloody little bits by the vacuum abortion method. That is His child that just died a horrible painful death.

      5) and Party, why don't you go buy a copy of the May 21, 2012 Newsweek. The cover says it all.

      Come on folks, you can do better than this. Doesn't anyone want to discuss the issues.? You people just pass hateful insults and make assumptions. You are the bigots here. Grow up, please.

      November 5, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • More workers?

      With your logic, an additional 50 million people on top of the approx 300 million here now will cause an additional 17% more debt (an additional $2.7 trillion) assuming the numbers break down of that 50 million mirrors the current 300 million. I can't for the life of me understand how people come up with this "anti-logic".

      November 5, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
    • Wise

      Republians like you really speak out of both sides of their face. You claim to support freedom from america and less government, yet you wish to regulate the personal lifes of America's citizend on an outrageous scale.

      Decide which side your on.

      I would also like to point out not all Americans are christian. If atheists were to try to pass their beliefs into law and impose them on Christians on the scale many Christian republicans do to Atheists, there would be worldwide uproar. Yet daily, republicans attempt to force their beliefs on atheists, Dont even try to use the bible as a rationale.

      December 8, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
  19. God's Oldest Dreamer

    Flip the coin already! Heads Obama wins and tails Romney loses!

    November 5, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Meatwad

      I like Obama, he is gentle like a bunny.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      :-) :-( :-)

      Bunnies are good fodder and their fur makes for good boot-liners.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:05 pm |
    • Ken

      Meatwad
      A bunny that isn't afraid to send drones and Navy SEALs in to kill the bad guys, you mean?

      November 5, 2012 at 1:20 pm |
    • Meatwad

      A cute little bunny wouldn't hurt anyone. I would get a real bunny but I don't have no damn money.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Thusly say I, "Sell that which is yours Meatwad and use the money to buy you a bunny."

      G.O.D.

      November 5, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
    • Ken

      Meatwad
      I guess you've never watched Monty Python's Holy Grail then? :-)

      November 5, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • Ken

      Meatwad

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg&w=640&h=390]

      November 5, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
  20. Reality

    And once again, "prof" P (and evangelicals, the RCC et al) miss regarding se-x, abortion, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from a guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

    Note: Some words hyphenated to defeat an obvious word filter which "prof" P is not subjected to.

    The Brutal Effects of Stupidity:

    : The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill (8.7% actual failure rate) and male con-dom (17.4% actual failure rate) have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or co-ndoms properly and/or use safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.- Failure rate statistics provided by the Gut-tmacher Inst-itute. Unfortunately they do not give the statistics for doubling up i.e. using a combination of the Pill and a condom.

    Added information before making your next move:

    from the CDC-2006

    "Se-xually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psy-ch-ological consequences of S-TDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

    And from:

    Consumer Reports, January, 2012

    "Yes, or-al se-x is se-x, and it can boost cancer risk-

    Here's a crucial message for teens (and all se-xually active "post-teeners": Or-al se-x carries many of the same risks as va-ginal se-x, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of or-al cancers in America in people under age 50.

    "Adolescents don’t think or-al se-x is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 's-ex.'" (It should be called the Bill Clinton Syndrome !!)

    Obviously, political leaders in both parties, Planned Parenthood, parents, the "stupid part of the USA" and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.

    The most effective forms of contraception, ranked by "Perfect use":
    - (Abstinence, 0% failure rate)
    - (Masturbation, mono or mutual, 0% failure rate)
    Followed by:
    One-month injectable and Implant (both at 0.05 percent)
    Vasectomy and IUD (Mirena) (both at 0.1 percent)
    The Pill, Three-month injectable, and the Patch (all at 0.3 percent)
    Tubal sterilization (at 0.5 percent)
    IUD (Copper-T) (0.6 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Post-ovulation) (1.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Symptothermal) and Male condom (both at 2.0 percent)
    Periodic abstinence (Ovulation method) (3.0 percent)

    Every other method ranks below these, including Withdrawal (4.0), Female condom (5.0), Diaphragm (6.0), Periodic abstinence (calendar) (9.0), the Sponge (9.0-20.0, depending on whether the woman using it has had a child in the past), Cervical cap (9.0-26.0, with the same caveat as the Sponge), and Spermicides (18.0).

    November 5, 2012 at 12:51 pm |
    • BamaDaniel

      Get a life

      November 5, 2012 at 12:58 pm |
    • sputnick1

      44 65 61 72 20 73 69 72 20 79 6F 75 20 61 72 65 20 61 20 74 6F 6C 74 61 6C 20 61 73 73 68 6F 6C 65 20 79 6F 75 20 68 61 76 65 20 6E 6F 20 62 61 6C 6C 73 20 67 6F 20 66 75 63 6B 20 79 6F 75 72 73 65 6C 66

      November 5, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • Reality

      Oops make that: "And once again, WHAT "prof" P (and the evangelicals, the RCC et al) miss regarding se-x, abortion, contraception and STD/HIV control: – from a guy who enjoys intelligent se-x-

      November 5, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.