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November 7th, 2012
08:21 AM ET

Election results raise questions about Christian right's influence

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

Washington (CNN) – For many conservative Christian leaders, it was a nightmare scenario: Barack Obama decisively re-elected. Same-sex marriage adopted by voters in some states. Rigorously anti-abortion candidates defeated in conservative red states.

On multiple levels, Tuesday’s election results raised questions about the Christian right’s agenda on American politics, eight years after the movement helped sweep President George W. Bush into a second term and opened the era of state bans on same-sex marriage.

“For the first time tonight, same-sex marriage has been passed by popular vote in Maine and Maryland,” said Robert P. Jones, a Washington-based pollster who specializes in questions about politics and religion.

“The historic nature of these results are hard to overstate,” Jones said. “Given the strong support of younger Americans for same-sex marriage, it is unlikely this issue will reappear as a major national wedge issue.”

Your Take: Should churches be polling places?

Some conservative evangelical leaders echoed that line. Albert Mohler, who heads the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said on Twitter that votes for same-sex marriage suggested that “we are witnessing a fundamental moral realignment of the country.”

A Tuesday ballot measure to legalize same-sex marriage in Washington state is still pending. In Minnesota, voters rejected a Tuesday measure that would have banned same-sex marriage there.

Thirty-eight states have banned same-sex marriage, mostly via constitutional amendments.

Obama’s victory also raised questions about the Christian right's influence in the electorate.

Though evangelical leaders as diverse as the Southern Baptist Convention’s Richard Land and Christian icon Billy Graham voiced support for Mitt Romney (Graham stopped short of an official endorsement), Obama performed better among white evangelicals than he did in 2008 in some states.

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In swing state Ohio, exit polls showed that Obama got 30% support among white evangelicals. While that’s hardly a victory, it’s better than the 27% support Obama got among those voters four years ago.

Before the election, many evangelical leaders predicted that opposition to Obama over his support for abortion rights, his personal endorsement of same-sex marriage and his vision of government as a force for good would trump reservations evangelicals had about Romney’s past social liberalism and his Mormon faith.

“There is no evidence in voting patterns that President Obama's 'evolution' on same-sex marriage cost him anything,” Mohler said in another tweet Tuesday night.

Obama also narrowly won Catholics, even after the U.S. Catholic bishops waged a rigorous campaign against the Obama administration around the issue of religious liberty. The bishops alleged Obama was forcing Catholics to violate their own teachings by making health insurance companies provide free contraception coverage for virtually all employees.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

John Green, a religion and politics expert at the University of Akron, said Obama’s win among Catholics was partly a testament to the growing Latino demographic.

“Maybe Hispanic Catholics were not as moved by religious liberty-type arguments as by immigration and economics,” he said.

Unlike in 2004, when John Kerry a former altar boy lost Catholic voters, the Obama campaign had a robust religious outreach program aimed largely at Catholic and evangelical voters. The effort included videos from Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, a Catholic, talking about their Christian faith.

Obama's success among some religious demographics also illustrated how economic issues, as opposed to culture war concerns, dominated the election cycle.

The defeat Tuesday of two Republican Senate candidates who made national headlines with anti-abortion remarks also raised questions about the Christian right’s power.

In Missouri, U.S. Senate candidate Todd Akin, who in August walked back his remark that "if it's a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," lost his bid to unseat Sen. Claire McCaskill, a Democrat.

Akin’s campaign became a national cause for conservative Christian activists after the Republican Party abandoned the candidate and encouraged him to drop out over his abortion remark.

In Indiana, Republican Senate candidate Richard Mourdock lost his race against Democrat Joe Donnelly after saying last month that pregnancies resulting from rape are “something that God intended to happen.”

Conservative Christians did claim some victories Tuesday night, including helping the GOP retain control of the U.S. House of Representatives and helping elect tea party favorite Ted Cruz as a U.S. senator from Texas.

Ralph Reed, the leader of conservative group the Faith & Freedom Coalition, planned a Wednesday morning press conference to release his data about what he called the enduring influence of “values voters.”

“Preliminary evidence is they turned out and they voted heavily for Romney,” Reed said in an e-mail message Tuesday night.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: 2012 Election • Christianity • Politics

soundoff (4,434 Responses)
  1. Mark Taylor

    The only reason Republicans kept the majority in the House is through the manipulation of district lines so that large blocks of Democratic voters are split into multiple districts. This is what that fight in Texas and a little later Wisconsin was all about. Democratic lawmakers left the states in an effort to try an prevent votes on redistricting. It isn't that voters are schizophrenic. The contests for President and Senate are state-wide efforts. Contests for representatives is by districts and the GOP has done a good job of carving up those districts to favor their candidates.

    November 11, 2012 at 6:38 am |
    • Andrew

      Agreed. Republicans can't win without cheating. They have gone so far to the extreme right that they have left more than 50% of the electorate disgusted with them, and the only way to win now is to cheat.

      November 11, 2012 at 8:51 am |
  2. Wilbur Scheissmann

    Just as the Lord turned erased Sodom and Gomorah from the face of the Earth, He is erasing Fire Island and wicked NYC from world. Soon will come San Francisco and the depraved Castro District and the depravity that takes place in the streets there! America has turned from the true faith and God will turn from it as well and allow it to wallow in its own filth. Truly an obamanation!

    November 10, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • Observer

      Wilbur,

      God destroyed Sodom because the people there were GREEDY. Sounds like they could have been early Republicans.

      November 10, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
    • art

      Hey Wilbur? For a guy who hates gay people, you sure seem to know alot about where they live.

      November 10, 2012 at 10:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HIgh five, art. Wilbur must have been roaming the streets of Castro trolling for a liaison.

      November 10, 2012 at 10:18 pm |
    • Lameness Spotter

      Wilbur is a Poe, folks.

      (look up Scheiss in German)

      November 10, 2012 at 10:23 pm |
    • Greenie

      Very good, now why is my post not coming up? I've tried to reply twice, and then someone beat me to the punch line regarding this dudes last name!!! Dang!!!!

      November 10, 2012 at 10:30 pm |
    • Helpful Hints

      Greenie,

      See the list of hints regarding word fragments on page #47.

      November 10, 2012 at 10:35 pm |
    • flambeauxfire

      Lashing out cos we won the election huh? This is why you lost & I will humor you by copying/publicizing your statement below. Its in writing after all & I do have a following. This will help do what all statements like this do; turn general people off to you types & seal the fact that your days are done in America. Y'all can look forward to 'political obselescence from your gated communities' asI read today.
      And by-the-way, if you believe in sin & the repercussions of it, then note that you are committing one. I help w the post-Sandy relief effort. Using words such as yours now is a direct rupturing of Jesus' code and you know it.
      Me? I don't mind cos, as I said, I am watching you types fall these days and your days are done........... so who cares what you say, even if it is crafted only to sting?

      November 11, 2012 at 6:07 am |
    • NSL

      Such absolute malarkey!

      If you're telling us that Christianity is the one true faith I'd like to know what you're smoking. "Hell" even Jesus wasn't a Christian!

      November 11, 2012 at 7:22 am |
    • Julie

      Hi – tolerance was the force that built this country initially. Extreme religious groups were being killed in Europe and the US was a place that they could go to practice their beliefs and not be killed. To think that some of the religious groups want to make the US the same as Europe was so many years ago, to persecute people for their beliefs. That was not what this country was based on and I am happy to see people stand up and say to each their own beliefs. I don't have to be Baptist, Mormon, Jewish or atheist or anything else. I have a good heart, pay my taxes and help others and hopefully you won't come at me and my family in the middle of the night for thinking so.

      November 11, 2012 at 7:39 am |
    • Wrenn_NYC

      Sorry, No.
      Look at my nick.

      Still here.

      November 12, 2012 at 11:15 am |
    • I'm not a GOPer, nor do I play one on TV

      @Julie,

      you said: "Extreme religious groups were being killed in Europe and the US was a place that they could go to practice their beliefs and not be killed."

      There are gaps in your historical understanding. Here's your first reading assignment:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Severn

      The battle of the Severn was a battle of the English Civil war, fought between Puritans against Anglicans and Catholics in what would become Annapolis, MD.

      The immigrants to the new world brought their religious prejudices with them and continued to hate each other here in America.

      November 12, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • sam stone

      wilbur: your god is a punk. thanks for playing

      November 13, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
  3. EX catholic

    The Fundamental problem with the so called "christian right" is that it is NEITHER. Mostly catholics (read IDOLATERS), and Ecu-me-nicals, are in charge of that movement. Therefore is not all christian and is not all right. It is Syncretism at its worst. An Apostate conglomerate of different and sometimes contradictory beliefs systems. Mostly Legalistic, self-absorbed, self-adulatory, self-promoting, completely and totally ignorant of the Grace of God.

    November 10, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
  4. Joe in NY

    Sadly our educational system and media have been taken over by liberal atheists. And then they wonder why our education level as compared to other nations slips further behind every year...

    At this rate we will fall behind Zimbabwe in a few more years...

    November 10, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Observer

      Joe in NY,

      Sour gr@pes make the best WHINE.

      November 10, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Joe, you're a fvcking moron. The reason our test scores are lower than those of many other countries is that our schools admit, teach, and test EVERYONE, not a select few. We don't reject students for ANY reason. Other countries do. They don't even attempt to educate all comers. Your idiocy is showing when you assume that all educators are atheists. Nothing could be further from the truth. Go find evidence to support your claims or be confirmed a complete liar.

      November 10, 2012 at 9:47 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Liberal atheists – the worst kind I'm sure. I resemble that remark. Who would you have teaching your kids, Joe? Someone who insists that the Universe was created, that there is ample evidence that the God of Abraham created it, and that humans are the whole point of it? That would be a liar, Joe. What lies do you want taught to kids, Joe?

      November 10, 2012 at 9:53 pm |
    • oneworld2

      You do know that the countries you fall behind of are more liberal and more atheist don't you.
      Just saying.

      November 11, 2012 at 12:59 am |
    • flambeauxfire

      You were always behind many 3rd world countries Im afraid. Nothing to do with God

      November 11, 2012 at 6:11 am |
    • Michael

      Believing the world is 6000 years old makes your argument concerning education moot.

      November 11, 2012 at 6:21 am |
    • Julie

      Really? If you look up facts you will see that evangelical christians have lower education levels and that atheists and others have attained higher levels. Why? Because they listen and try to understand and make sense of things on a more scientific basis. Let's stop fighting and start moving forward with knowledge as a base.

      November 11, 2012 at 7:46 am |
  5. luvorised

    thank goodness the universe has moved away from crazy christains. What is christain about building America on the backs of black slaves. That just isn't Christainity to me, it sounds more like insanity and thier so racist.

    November 10, 2012 at 7:48 pm |
    • Ben

      Slavery may be over, but some Christians still use underpaid, illegal immigrant workers; or employ the sweat shop labor of foreign countries to make their products.

      November 10, 2012 at 8:54 pm |
    • Joe in NY

      Wow, maybe you should actually try to read the Bible. Jesus came to set the captives free....

      November 10, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Observer

      Joe in NY,

      The NEW TESTAMENT supports slavery. Why not READ the Bible sometime?

      November 10, 2012 at 9:39 pm |
    • lol??

      Obstructionist-server, doing a little twisting, are you????.....'"1Cr 7:22-23 For he that is called in the Lord, [being] a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, [being] free, is Christ's servant. Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men."

      November 11, 2012 at 8:47 am |
    • Ben

      Joe in NY
      Came to set the captives free spiritually, maybe, but not actually.

      November 11, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
  6. John 3:16

    My faith is so deep I want to penetrate Jesus's holy butthole.

    November 10, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
  7. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    November 10, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • Observer

      Ask Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan on November 6th.

      November 10, 2012 at 6:41 pm |
    • Aradan

      Religion is NOT healthy for children. Having been raised Christian I heard quite frequently at church and Sunday school how people will burn in Hell for eternity if they die in sin....and well, I consider that kind of teaching very unhealthy. As an adult atheist looking back at my religious upbring I'd say it was equivalent to psychologial abuse...

      November 10, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Aradan

      The prayer test I set onlline on this thread on Thursday for lightning to stike 75 yards in front of me on Friday at 5:00 pm...just as a follow-up – there was no lightning stike for those who prayed for it.

      November 10, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Aradan

      If you really think prayer changes things then I challenge you to THINK about WHY God/prayer can't heal amputees...

      November 10, 2012 at 7:22 pm |
    • Cal

      @Aradan Even Jesus couldn't heal amputees. That's one trick that can't be faked. LOL

      November 10, 2012 at 8:58 pm |
    • lol??

      Cal-libby.....'Jhn 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.'.......... The libsters won't call you out. They LIKE liars.

      November 11, 2012 at 12:56 am |
    • flambeauxfire

      I like that

      November 11, 2012 at 6:12 am |
    • n8r0n

      Prayer does indeed change intelligent, conscious beings into gullible, mindless drones.

      November 11, 2012 at 7:52 am |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" is the degenerate.

      This troll is not a christian.

      November 11, 2012 at 9:21 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs`!

      November 11, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • Cal

      lol??
      That's a story, in a book, and it didn't involve any prayer, right. Have there been any prayed for amputations that spontaneously fully regenerated?

      November 11, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
  8. End Religion

    I wonder if Ronald Rebozo is still campaigning for ROMNEY / RYAN 2012?

    November 10, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
  9. art

    What does the election mean? The GOP redistricted Called Obama a Muslim, a Kenyan, a Marxist. Spent 2 billion dollars on ads. Tried to suppress the minority vote. Started a fake news channel. Dominated the radio with daily hatred. Used fake polling results. Used every dirty trick in the book. Lied, cheated and stole. And still lost the election by an electoral landslide. And the main supporters of the GOP are dying by the thousands everyday. What does it mean?? Morning in America my friends. Morning in America.

    November 10, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • Cal

      I guess it means that at least a slim majority of Americans won't believe conspiracy theories and baseless propaganda.

      November 10, 2012 at 9:06 pm |
  10. Denise

    The Christian right is just plain wrong, and really their myths have no valid place in the modern world as anything other than sorry history and ancient supersti-tion. They'll be getting desparate now that their fudged candidate, who wasn't even one of their own, lost the election and they have even less legitimacy and power now.

    November 10, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
  11. Atheism in not healthy for children and other living things

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb0kiiB3O-o&w=640&h=390]

    November 10, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but the assertions in your moniker regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      November 10, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • John

      hal 9001
      Alzheimer's doesn't make you stupid, so I think you haven't found this guy's problem yet.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:56 pm |
  12. oneworld2

    They should start taxing churches.

    November 10, 2012 at 8:08 am |
    • Reality

      There are different opinions as to what a religion really is or what a non-profit is and therefore all non-profits should file IRS Form 990's. At the moment, religious groups are exempt. To be fair therefore, there should be no tax-exemptions for any group and that includes the Democratic and Republican Parties. Faith and community initiative grant monies should also be cancelled and there should also be no tax deductions for contributions made to charities and non-profits.

      November 10, 2012 at 9:04 am |
    • nope

      @on...
      nope

      November 10, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • oneworld2

      Charities have payed employees, so yes they should pay tax.

      November 10, 2012 at 11:27 am |
    • snopes confirms

      nope is false

      November 10, 2012 at 12:05 pm |
    • John

      Churches do SOME charity, but the rest is selling their product. Even the charity part is done just to help sell the product. In this way they're even worse than MacDonalds where, at least, their logo isn't plastered over the KidsMeals toys. How many churches would do charity if the opportunity to preach and try to convert wasn't there? It's just part of the business, and selfish to boot.

      November 10, 2012 at 4:02 pm |
  13. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things .

    November 10, 2012 at 7:47 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
      by the Alzheimer's Disease Society

      November 10, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
  14. Reality

    "Kiboshing" all religions in less than ten seconds. A creed for the new Republican Party–

    (only for the new members)

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    Added details available upon written request.

    A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.

    e.g. Taoism

    "The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.

    Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man. "

    November 9, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • mama k

      "Christianity partially fails."

      Why this part??

      November 9, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
    • Reality

      No Gabriel, no Annunciation (Luke 1:26-38- See http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb026.html for added details about the paternity of Jesus)

      November 10, 2012 at 9:01 am |
  15. Terrence and Phillip

    Hey Buddies

    What happened to Captain America?

    I have a surprise for him!

    November 9, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • Kirk

      Post as a Canadian and he will magically appear, like moose turds.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • Tod

      Yup, the Captain is one of those guys who just doesn't like beaver.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:28 am |
    • LittleHero

      My guess is he's a momma's boy and his dad was a draft dodger.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • Mirosal

      Terrence and Phillip ARE Canadian... don't you watch the cartoon? T&P, just post something about U.S. politics, and he'll show up with his footie pajamas and cardboard shield, until his mommy gets his bottle ready.

      November 10, 2012 at 5:19 am |
    • nope

      @to...
      nope

      November 10, 2012 at 9:42 am |
  16. God's Oldest Dreamer

    Despotism seems to have run amuck among fancy pants who never could read between the lines.

    November 9, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
  17. God's Oldest Dreamer

    To bawk or not to bawk, what were the questions? What's that? Too 'impinged' are we?

    November 9, 2012 at 11:16 pm |
  18. Observer

    Is there anyone here who is impressed by pretentious sesquipedalian comments?

    November 9, 2012 at 11:01 pm |
    • mama k

      Lol – I had to look that one up – but I do like to learn a new word.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I agree, that's a great word and perfectly descriptive of G.O.D.'s posts.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • Observer

      mama k,

      I'm glad someone caught that. Do you think I could be referring to anyone?

      November 9, 2012 at 11:08 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Talking about 'long words' is not your shortcoming 'Observer'.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Using them and making up new nonsense words is certainly your one talent, Dreamer.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:11 pm |
    • Damocles

      Yeah I had to look it up as well, but at least I have a cool new way of combining long-winded, meaningless and hollow into one neat package, thank you! :)

      November 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • End Religion

      When I was young I was abused by a priest who performed sesquipedalia on me.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • mama k

      well I have had some long posts, I must admit.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:15 pm |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      True, but they have been neither meaningless nor hollow. :)

      November 9, 2012 at 11:16 pm |
    • Observer

      I'm not going to pretend that I didn't have to look it up, too.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:17 pm |
    • Damocles

      @observer

      We all have a new wrinkle in the brain for learning something new and that is what is important. Sad that some will choose to iron out that wrinkle with all due haste. Oh well.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • mama k

      Thank you, Damn. I do like how concise some people's are with their posts – you seem to be that way. I often wish, even in other places where writing is necessary that I could do so more efficiently.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:22 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh, sorry – Dam. not Damn. Damnocles – no – that doesn't make sense, lol.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:23 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh, while I have the opportunity, please check out on the ?previous? page and on page 17 the continuing saga of Chad verses the United States on the issue of separation of church and state.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • Damocles

      Ahhh the damned Dam is the damnedest Dam that ever damned. Damn Dam.... wait... what were we talking about?

      Dammit!

      November 9, 2012 at 11:26 pm |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      Yeah my alcohol supply is a little low, so I can't tolerate Chad's unique version of reality at the moment. It is like a trainwreck though.... NO!.... must... resist... temptation!

      November 9, 2012 at 11:28 pm |
    • mama k

      Lol – yeah don't start into it if you are getting weary.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
    • Observer

      mama k,

      In looking back at these comments, I realize that I may have given you the wrong impression. My comment was definitely NOT directed at you and hope you didn't take offense.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:38 pm |
    • Damocles

      I was going to get involved in the page 17 discussion but everyone was doing such a fine job I didn't want to gang up on the poor kid.

      I do often wonder with so many seemingly different quotes from famous people of the past if they would even recognize what they actually said.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:39 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh, no I didn't take it that way, but thank you, Observer. But it did make me think about some things that I wrote or pasted repetitively when irked by that nasty homophobic TBT poster.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • Damocles

      TBT won't talk to me anymore.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • mama k

      Damocles – do you mean would Madison for instance be surprised today if he looked at all the things, side-by-side that we now find important?

      November 9, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • mama k

      (that are attributed to him)

      November 9, 2012 at 11:45 pm |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      Yes, but it's more than that. I'm trying to come up with a way to say what I'm thinking but the words escape me. Let's try.... if 2 people can come up with quotes by one person to prove that person's stance on an issue, is there some dishonesty that can be singled out? Meh, not quite what I want to say....

      November 9, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
    • Observer

      Christians love to quote the official statements of our forefathers.

      Non-Christians like to quote the off-the-record comments of our forefathers.

      Chad apparently is stumped about which is more indicative of the person's true feelings.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:57 pm |
    • mama k

      Well probably a little in all. But I like to look at it as a learning experience, even if I am wrong. Hopefully, even with a fierce discussion, everyone can come away with more insight about a historical figure, imho. I and guess it gets back to the issue of being either long-winded or a "cherry picker" so to speak if one thinks they have the heart of the matter that just happens to be the part the other person is either trying to ignore or not the part they would have chosen to support an opposite opinion.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • mama k

      So evidently, when sometimes I have been long-winded, today I was found guilty of "cherry-picking", lol.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:05 am |
    • Damocles

      @observer

      Oh yeah, I know people are more willing to be honest when it is just themselves listening.

      @mama

      Agreed. I'm all for learning as much as possible. I guess that's why I tend to stay away from quotes because I can be accused of taking them out of context.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:07 am |
    • mama k

      and, actually, I do understand why he initially said that. but what came after was, of course something else.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:07 am |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      I think we all know that people are going to accuse others of cherry picking if they see what they don't want to see.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:09 am |
    • mama k

      I wish I could stay away from quotes, but when it comes to separation of church and state, well, you kind of have to argue that way against the kind of people who start right off with "this country was founded on christianity". lol. but, you're right – if the argument is just about the current law and const itution, it's probably best to try to stay current and work on discovering where the disconnect is between the people having the conversation.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:10 am |
    • mama k

      yes, i'm learning that, lol. I think chad wrote me about 4 or 5 tickets, LOL.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:11 am |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      Indeed. The founding fathers didn't have to deal with some of the issues we deal with today. They gave us a good framework but they couldn't take into account every possibility, to try and do so would have been foolish.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • mama k

      Maybe someone can help me find out what kind of religion this dude is talking about. I found it interesting for a few minutes, but didn't give it much thought other than I have no idea what you would call them:

      http://www.yhwhourrighteousnesshome.org/the-jesus-myth-part-1.html

      This poster "Lorraine" over under the case for gay marriage article keeps blabbing away with all her YHWH mutterings about the book of remembrance.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:18 am |
    • mama k

      One thing I know is they think Christianity is fake. They say all religions are false, but they spend a lot of time in the OT, and a lot of time comparing OT to NT.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:22 am |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      I try not to argue against a person's actual belief. I can't tell people what to think and nobody should be able to do that. I can argue against what is done with that belief.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:32 am |
    • mama k

      I wish I could be more like that. I guess my problem is that I seem to see a little to quickly the things certain people do with their beliefs. This person that posted a phone # associated with that site is rather vocal in a hom ophobic way at times.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:45 am |
    • Damocles

      @mama

      I know what you mean, I get worked up at times and want to grab certain people by the neck and shake em like a ragdoll.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:51 am |
    • LittleHero

      I have to agree that you should be tolerant of other's beliefs, but that does not extend to actions based on those beliefs. That is when we all have the right to stand up and make our voices heard. I actually have a great deal of respect for people that actually live their beliefs and feel that is all the "missionary" work they need to do. My screen name is actually an homage to one of my favorite reggae artists. I have many Rastafarian friends, and although I think Halle Salassie was an awful human being (and personally think Rastafarianism dogma is BS), I respect they way they live their lives and I would never think of offending them.

      November 10, 2012 at 12:58 am |
    • Damocles

      @little

      If you will look, you will see that I said I can argue against what is done in the name of a belief. I respect the hell out of people that go to other countries and offer aid, what I don't respect is all the preaching that goes along with it.

      November 10, 2012 at 1:08 am |
    • LittleHero

      I completely agree – I find the whole concept of evangelism offensive. The idea that your beliefs are somehow better than someone else's is simply condescending. As an atheist, I don't have that problem. To quote a very bad (intentional) movie – "I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything".

      November 10, 2012 at 1:18 am |
    • John

      LittleHero
      Evangelism is more like a pyramid scheme, or Amway. The more people you sign up, the better the reward in the end.

      Or like kid drug using pushers, the more people you can hook into the drug, the more you get for free yourself.

      November 10, 2012 at 1:01 pm |
  19. Daryl Densford

    Evangelicals do seem to be loosing their political influence but the Church has another way to change the country, by reaching out to their communities with love and compassion. If you're interested, read about it in "Election Results and the Church" at: http://daryldensford.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/election-results-and-the-church/

    November 9, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Can it be said and also inferred that all of Life here upon these celestial shorelines of life-forms resonate from a single celled life-form all the ways to massive cellularized life formations? Is it 'not' written within the Gospels that mankind is but buildings that are husbanded by the Godly? Do we not labour together with God in our tasks? Who among us can deny our psychically souled Being as being un/just and un/righteous God-Heads?

      Nothing is a Foreverness and Matter, in its' infinitesimally established finiteness, is a materialized foreverness unobtainable by us, human-like megaliths called mankind. We are all giants too huge and too vast for us to ever re-enter in wholeness back into the Kingdoms of God which are inside or within our bodies. So many damningly dumb buildings of evolution's ascension into the spatial voids of outward motions sanctioned by the Godly! Too little are our intellectual abaters

      John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world"

      1Corinthians 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.

      Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is INSIDE you.

      Love Lettuce,
      Let Us Love,
      G.O.D.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:54 pm |
    • mama k

      Why Gullible's Travels, Part 2? Why not Peter Pan?

      November 9, 2012 at 11:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why not "Alice Through the Looking Glass"?

      November 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • mama k

      Oh. lol. My reply was to the Oldest Rumpled Stiltskin, not Daryl.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      I don't mind and ya'll don't matter :-)

      November 9, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Damocles

      Oh yeah? Well I'm rubber and you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you! Nyah nyah nyah!

      November 9, 2012 at 11:22 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Two blondes walking along,,, one dippy blonde said to the other fruity blonde, "Look at the deead bird!" The other fruity blonde looked in the air and said, "Where?"

      The moral is too many blondes becomes a basket case.

      BTW I intentionally left an extra 'e' to be found!

      November 9, 2012 at 11:37 pm |
    • Damocles

      Intended stupidity is worse than unintended stupidity.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:41 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Nobody likes a smartt alec's murmurings. Neither do I

      November 9, 2012 at 11:54 pm |
    • Happy

      " Who among us can deny our psychically souled Being" – the other day I saw someone gone mental being taken to the hospital. But wait, his soul got possessed by the devil – take him to the temple!

      November 10, 2012 at 12:00 am |
    • Damocles

      The truth both hurts and sets you free. What scares you more, being hurt or being free?

      November 10, 2012 at 12:02 am |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Judging me by what others' believe is as.sinine. Base your judgments upon my beliefs and try really hard not to confuse the two!

      November 10, 2012 at 12:14 am |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Happy,

      Yes? Yes!

      November 10, 2012 at 12:16 am |
    • flambeauxfire

      That would be nice

      November 11, 2012 at 6:22 am |
  20. God's Oldest Dreamer

    Who before this day's Age is found worthy of Godly praise? Who after us will find peace set before them? Who in today;s timeline is this "son of man" that many should fear him for his worthiness stance? Who above can see the below? Who that is below can see what be above? From the very smallest crevice to the most high chasms, the Sea of Nothingness is the Holy Spirit. May the elemental Gods find favor in this found son of man that he may not be afflicted with this world's power but rather he should carry upon him the angst from his manhood till his natural death.Praise be this son of man!

    Let Us Love,
    Love Lettuce
    G.O.D.

    November 9, 2012 at 10:21 pm |
    • Athy

      Great post. Very effectively points out the unbelievable stupidity of religion. We atheists love these comments. It furthers our cause better than anything we could possibly come up with.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:32 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Athy,

      This world is yes, too full of false religions and rich religions. Many of today's christian pharisees are filthy rich and does no justice in their word. They are all crippled manifestations of the ungodly. They would rather teach what they feel and hide that which they know is against them. The treasury of oneness is above the foundations' allness.

      Nothing is a Foreverness and Matter, in its' infinitesimally established finiteness, is a materialized foreverness unobtainable by us, human-like megaliths called mankind. We are all giants too huge and too vast for us to ever re-enter in wholeness back into the Kingdoms of God which are inside or within our bodies. So many damningly dumb buildings of evolution's ascension into the spatial voids of outward motions sanctioned by the Godly! Too little are our intellectual abaters.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:45 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      What just really do you know about scientific methodologies? Do you know the sustainment principles of quantum physics? Do you know anything about Fractal Cosmologies and its self-similar cosmological paradigms? Do you know whether or not there truly are two paradigms of cosmologic symmetries each one sustaining the other? nuff said and asked.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:49 pm |
    • Athy

      I hope it's "nuff said".

      November 9, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
    • Damocles

      Proof positive that you can hammer out 10,000 words and say absolutely nothing.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:56 pm |
    • mama k

      Alas, knowledge of physics and cosmology are not a requirement for spam recognition, whether the candidate be from a Nigerian president, the "apostle" Paul, the prophet Isaiah, the book of Remembrance, or any other "heavenly" creation of man.

      November 9, 2012 at 10:59 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      All bawk but no talk, dumb futz's

      November 9, 2012 at 11:06 pm |
    • Athy

      It's "futzes"' dummy.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Drop an 'e' here forget the 'e' there,,,, :-)

      November 9, 2012 at 11:32 pm |
    • Athy

      It's not a matter of dropping an e. You just don't know how to form a simple plural.

      November 9, 2012 at 11:38 pm |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Reading into me are we Athy? What am I thinking now? What's that? Nothing comes to mind? Damn you're smartter then the average juju bean!

      November 9, 2012 at 11:51 pm |
    • End Religion

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jujube

      November 10, 2012 at 12:08 am |
    • Athy

      GOD, it's "than", not "then". You can't even write a simple sentence without at least one mistake in it, can you?

      November 10, 2012 at 12:12 am |
    • God's Oldest Dreamer

      Can't get anything by you can we teacher? Or should I call you mentor? Maybe monitor? Who the sam hell cares as much as you do for simple fvck ups? Dumb klutzes are we all on occasion. :-(

      November 10, 2012 at 12:21 am |
    • Athy

      It's "fuck", not "fvck". You can't get anything right, can you?

      November 10, 2012 at 12:24 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.