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 The author argues that there are many meanings of the adjective 'biblical.'
November 17th, 2012
10:00 PM ET
My Take: The danger of calling behavior ‘biblical’
By Rachel Held Evans, Special to CNN On "The Daily Show" recently, Jon Stewart grilled Mike Huckabee about a TV ad in which Huckabee urged voters to support “biblical values” at the voting box. When Huckabee said that he supported the “biblical model of marriage,” Stewart shot back that “the biblical model of marriage is polygamy.” And there’s a big problem, Stewart went on, with reducing “biblical values” to one or two social issues such as abortion and gay marriage, while ignoring issues such as poverty and immigration reform. It may come as some surprise that as an evangelical Christian, I cheered Stewart on from my living room couch. As someone who loves the Bible and believes it to be the inspired word of God, I hate seeing it reduced to an adjective like Huckabee did. I hate seeing my sacred text flattened out, edited down and used as a prop to support a select few political positions and platforms. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter And yet evangelicals have grown so accustomed to talking about the Bible this way that we hardly realize we’re doing it anymore. We talk about “biblical families,” “biblical marriage,” “biblical economics,” “biblical politics,” “biblical values,” “biblical stewardship,” “biblical voting,” “biblical manhood,” “biblical womanhood,” even “biblical dating” to create the impression that the Bible has just one thing to say on each of these topics - that it offers a single prescriptive formula for how people of faith ought to respond to them. But the Bible is not a position paper. The Bible is an ancient collection of letters, laws, poetry, proverbs, histories, prophecies, philosophy and stories spanning multiple genres and assembled over thousands of years in cultures very different from our own. When we turn the Bible into an adjective and stick it in front of another loaded word, we tend to ignore or downplay the parts of the Bible that don’t quite fit our preferences and presuppositions. In an attempt to simplify, we force the Bible’s cacophony of voices into a single tone and turn a complicated, beautiful, and diverse holy text into a list of bullet points we can put in a manifesto or creed. More often than not, we end up more committed to what we want the Bible to say than what it actually says. Nowhere is this more evident than in conversations surrounding “biblical womanhood.” CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories Growing up in the Bible Belt, I received a lot of mixed messages about the appropriate roles of women in the home, the church and society, each punctuated with the claim that this or that lifestyle represented true “biblical womanhood.” In my faith community, popular women pastors such as Joyce Meyer were considered unbiblical for preaching from the pulpit in violation of the apostle Paul's restriction in 1 Timothy 2:12 ("I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent"), while Amish women were considered legalistic for covering their heads in compliance with his instructions in 1 Corinthians 11:5 ("Every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head"). Pastors told wives to submit to their husbands as the apostle Peter instructed in 1 Peter 3:1, but rarely told them to avoid wearing nice jewelry as the apostle instructs them just one sentence later in 1 Peter 3:3. Despite the fact that being single was praised by both Jesus and Paul, I learned early on that marriage and motherhood were my highest callings, and that Proverbs 31 required I keep a home as tidy as June Cleaver's. Opinion: What all those Jesus jokes tell us This didn’t really trouble me until adulthood, when I found myself in a childless egalitarian marriage with a blossoming career and an interest in church leadership and biblical studies. As I wrestled with what it meant to be a woman of faith, I realized that, despite insistent claims that we don’t “pick and choose” from the Bible, any claim to a “biblical” lifestyle requires some serious selectivity. After all, technically speaking, it is “biblical” for a woman to be sold by her father to pay off debt, “biblical” for a woman to be required to marry her rapist, “biblical” for her to be one of many wives. So why are some Bible passages lifted out and declared “biblical,” while others are explained away or simply ignored? Does the Bible really present a single prescriptive lifestyle for all women? These were the questions that inspired me to take a page from A.J. Jacobs, author of "The Year of Living Biblically", and try true biblical womanhood on for size—literally, no “picking and choosing." This meant, among other things, growing out my hair, making my own clothes, covering my head whenever I prayed, abstaining from gossip, remaining silent in church (unless I was “prophesying,” of course), calling my husband "master,” even camping out in my front yard during my period to observe the Levitical purity laws that rendered me unclean. During my yearlong experiment, I interviewed a variety of women practicing biblical womanhood in different ways — an Orthodox Jew, an Amish housewife, even a polygamist family - and I combed through every commentary I could find, reexamining the stories of biblical women such as Deborah, Ruth, Hagar, Tamar, Mary Magdalene, Priscilla and Junia. My goal was to playfully challenge this idea that the Bible prescribes a single lifestyle for how to be a woman of faith, and in so doing, playfully challenge our overuse of the term “biblical.” I did this not out of disdain for Scripture, but out of love for it, out of respect for the fact that interpreting and applying the Bible is a messy, imperfect and - at times - frustrating process that requires humility and grace as we wrestle the text together. The fact of the matter is, we all pick and choose. We’re all selective in our interpretation and application of the biblical text. The better question to ask one another is why we pick and choose the way that we do, why we emphasis some passages and not others. This, I believe, will elevate the conversation so that we’re using the Bible, not as a blunt weapon, but as a starting point for dialogue. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Rachel Held Evans. soundoff (4,660 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 Next »Post a comment
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Editor's Note: Rachel Held Evans is a 
I do not think the Bible is Gods word, its a book about ancient culture and of people that did amazing things for their time, its letters, opinions and teachings of their elders, nothing more. Reducing this book of values and history to an adjective is shouting, "I am a simpleton!" Everything we listen to these days seems to have to be reduce to some sound bite, like we have no ability to understand the details behind it. Priests, Commentators, and Journalist all treat people like cattle, to be moved one way or this with a simple sound bite sentence. Sadly, people give credence to this because they actually move as told without thinking. Biblical, as a word really only means "book-like" as Bible as a word means Book. If we turn the Bible in nothing but a noun its nothing but a book, if we turn it into a adjective we reduce its value and meaning even further for now its just a concept.
The Bible says itself is God's word. And it says that there are people like minded to you that won't believe it. It is a tremendous work that reveals: God is holy, mankind is sinful and fallen, and Christ's righteousness is available to all who believe.
@Todd – the bible itself says it's true, so that makes it true? Do you realize how silly that sounds?
"the bible itself says it's true, so that makes it true? Do you realize how silly that sounds?"
Not as silly as you saying it is otherwise not true; LOL. Remember there are witnesses in the Bible that support its truthfulness. These are evidently just "characters" in your mind, with no credibility. They are presented, however, as witnesses. God Bless!
there are witnesses in the Bible that support its truthfulness
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Sure, those who authored the words. Had the phrase "conflict of interest" been introduced at that time?
"Sure, those who authored the words. Had the phrase "conflict of interest" been introduced at that time?"
And we should believe you? That they are not witnesses? You weren't there! How cynical you are!
You weren't there!
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Nor were you.
Todd
The Odyssey is proof that Poseidon exists. After all there are witnesses in the Odyssey that support it's truthfulness. Though I'm sure you think they are just "characters". They are presented, however, as witnesses.
Now do you see how silly you sound?
Todd,
THE BIBLE ITSELF SAYS IT IS GOD'S WORD.
Now I wonder if you have ever heard of other religious scriptures! While you claim that Bible was inspired by God, the Muslims claim that Quran was revealed word for word, letter for letter (and not the work of some witnesses)! And better still, the Hindus believe that Vedas are apauruṣeya, i.e. "not human compositions", and are supposed to be a direct revelation of the “cosmic sound of truth” heard by ancient Rishis who then translated what was heard into something understandable by humans.
So, who is right?
Hi Simran, "So, who is right? You want me to answer this question from a humanistic position, ie. outside of the Bible? Why should I do that, so many people are here to take that position. But I will answer your question this way: God bless Simran. Prevent evil from her and her family and restore anything taken from her. Show her your goodness and love all of the days of her life.
Excellent article! As an atheist myself, I greatly appreciate her take on religious politicians and how they use the Bible for their own personal gain. I was educated in Catholic school and am a strong believer in feminism, part of which in fact stems from my Catholic beginnings. There are so many verses that praise femininity and equality between husband and wife, and yet so many more that say women are property and need to be silent and obedient. You can't pick and choose, but that's exactly what politicians do.
I cannot respect a leader of faith who barely resembles the message that their religion represents. Even thought I do not personally believe in a God, I can at least have respect for those who practice what they preach and believe in something that creates good for the world, not something that brings us all back to the Middle Ages.
I don't know that I could claim to respect people just for practicing what they preach. Some preach and practice discrimination, hate, etc.... How can you respect that? Some ancients practiced what they preached when they ripped the hearts out of humans in order to keep the Sun rising. Early Christians practiced what they preached when they slaughtered entire families for not accepting the Christian God, and burned true knowledge (like the Library at Alexandria) simply because it refuted their claims. Respect them for these convictions? Sorry, not me.
The Biblical record of man's deeds is not meant to be the Biblical standard of behavior. The record of these deeds (such as polygamy) only reflects the falling away from these standards. The Bible also accurately records the results of deviating from these standards. Read with an open prayerful mind the Bible is not hard to understand.
Not hard to understand but easy to misconstrue.
I am an atheist that was educated as a Catholic also. I'm not sure I understand the claim that Catholicism inspired your feminism. In my view, there is nothing about Catholicism that preaches female equality, starting with refusing women to be priests.
Horus, comparing modern day religions to ancient ones is asinine. Obviously there are extreme differences so it's not even worth comparing. And yes, I respect someone who practices what they preach, even if I don't agree with those practices, more so than I do a hypocrite. Hands down. If we can't at least say that, then all we're left with is "You're wrong because I don't agree with you." And we've seen that conversations like that don't get anyone anywhere.
And as for people who use their religion to cause harm to others, that goes back to my earlier point: Those people are hypocrites. Even if they can find some passage in the Bible that justifies their actions, Jesus's message was one of pacifism and acceptance of others, no exceptions.
mk, I wouldn't say my Catholic background inspired me to be a feminist, but that my schooling helped me form my feminist opinions. If you look at Pslams, there are many love poems that praise femininity, and Jesus preaches equality to women, one example being his relationship with Mary Magdeline. Both those parts of the Bible plus seeing how things can be interpreted so many different ways, how people pick and choose, that is really what inspired my feminism because it made me see that I need to think for myself, and that every coin has 2 sides. That present-day Catholic Church as an establishment is absolutely not female-friendly, but the Church is again an instance of hypocrisy.
@independent – comparing modern religions to ancients is asinine? Really? The modern religions that still follow the same creeds written in the 4th century CE? The modern religions that breed divisiveness, violence and murder?...just as they have for thousands of years? Don't believe me? Do a little search on religiously motivated violence just in the US. Then expand to the globe. You will find that these religions aren't so evolved as you want to believe. Furthermore, you make an assumption, and attribute positive characteristics to a man (Jesus) whom you never knew, and whose only references were written by his followers after his death. No one, including you can claim anything about what the Christian man-god said or did without submitting to faith.
Horus, Christians, Muslims, Jews, or any other present-day religion never ripped human hearts out to keep the Sun from rising. Those were much more ancient, polytheistic religions that yes, it's asinine to compare to modern-day religions. I do think modern-day religions in practice are still very backwards, but again, that's the hypocrisy of man interpreting these texts for their own benefit. Hence why I praised this woman's article for her unbiased way of telling people they cannot pick and choose Bible verses.
And when did I claim to know what Jesus actually said? Those that believe in Jesus and his message refer to the Bible, and the accuracy of those statements, and whether Jesus was a real person at all, is debatable. My point was, IF you believe in the Bible and Jesus's words as recorded by those many years later, then based upon those writings, Jesus's message was one of acceptance, pacifism, and helping others.
Thank you. As an ordained pastor who has spent my life wrestling with the scriptures, I have been saddened by the use of a bible as a simple sound bite. The bible is a book of mystery, that challenges us to wrestle (thus the name Israel) with God. It does not provide us easy answers, but mostly difficult questions. One of the principal questions is 'how shall we read this sacred text?'
Pastor Cassel, Thank you for commenting. I am a non believer, but this article rings true. People do choose what to believe and what not to believe (read ignore) within the Bible based on their own ideas of right and wrong. My question then is where do we as a species get our Morals?
I tie everyone in this blog to the purpose of God. love you
I tie everyone on the internet to the purpose Odin. Hail the All Father.
Faith in God, who is the Inspirer and Preserver of his Word, makes us confident that he is the one who has guided the gathering together of its various parts. So we confidently accept the 27 books of the Christian Greek Scriptures along with the 39 of the Hebrew Scriptures as ONE Bible, by the one divine Author, Jehovah God. His Word, in all its 66 books is our guide, and its entire harmony, balance and candor testify to its completeness.
All praise belongs to Jehovah God, the Creator of this incomparable book. It can equip us completely and put our feet on the way to life. Let us read from it daily and use it wisely at every opportunity.
Where did this idea of having faith in God come from originally if not the Bible? So, really, the Bible gives you faith in God which gives you confidence in the Bible, and so on, and so on... One great big bit of circular logic.
Your god must be a total dipsh.it if he made it sooo hard to understand the "word of god" and his followers can't agree on what is literal or should be scrapped. Its almost as if the bible was written by ancient bronze age men? Weird huh?
Amen!
I think your name says all we need to know about you. You are living proof of the ignorant atheist.
And Sodapop is soooooo much more intelligent – NOT!
LOL!
How old are you? Seven maybe? Again, you prove my point for me.
You can't spell and your grammar is crap = Troll loser.
And, yet again, you prove my point for me. You act like a child, which seems typical for atheists.
Maybe you need a spell checker?
That's why you're a troll with multiple handles on the blog, you're an idiot, not a christian. LOL!
What are you RANTING about? I only use one handle. If you could look up my IP, you would see that. Why would I use others? Also, I'm not the one trolling, and calling people names. You're crazy. I'm done responding to you.
What are you seven? Grow up troll.
Thera are many things in the Bible that are just people's opinions on how things should be. That is why Muslims when creating their book, took some which were convenient to them to gorw their religion and that apealed to many men of that time. But you still are confused with what men say and what Jesus says. In the Bible are quotes of what Jesus said, when did he say women were inferior to men or that they could not do as men? Jesus kept men and women as equal and the laws were for both igually, yet you pcik and choose phrases from the many letters in the Bible from other people who are not Jesus, that is what creats confusion in the people who read the Bible or listen to people like you talk about the Bible. Out of the Bible, thousands of religions have sprong out and none see the Bible the same way, all interpret the words in there differently, but you should only take what GOD and Jesus said which is quoted in the Bible, the rest is opinion and that is why so much conflicts is created and the Bible gets a bad rap with some. So, use the old testament and what Jesus said to guiede you, not what Timothy, Paul etc said in letters, that is just personal views, not what was really said by GOD or Jesus.
Its obvious that you don't understand that much of your Christian religion is ripped off from previous cultures religions. Its true. Do the minimal amount of research and you could know this. Ignorance is bliss religious people.
If Muslims did take what was convenient for them in writing the Qur'an, then the same can be said of Christians borrowing from the Jewish scriptures when writing their own books, correct?
jose, you are not making any sense, Jesus doesn't say anything, the books were written long after he died. Everything you think you know about him or what he supposed to have said is coming from the same people you say people shouldn't listen to. Please explain?
Troll, you don't know a thing, so stop pretending that you do. What cultures did we steal Jesus from? What culture did we steal the the God of Abraham and Isaac from? You are cluesless...
Mithra
Was born of a virgin on December 25th, in a cave, attended by shepherds
Was considered a great traveling teacher and master
Had 12 companions or disciples
Promised his followers immortality
Performed miracles
Sacrificed himself for world peace
Was buried in a tomb and after three days rose again
Was celebrated each year at the time of His resurrection (later to become Easter)
Was called "the Good Shepherd"
Was identified with both the Lamb and the Lion
Was considered to be the "Way, the Truth and the Light," and the "Logos," "Redeemer," "Savior" and "Messiah."
Celebrated Sunday as His sacred day (also known as the "Lord's Day,")
Celebrated a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper"
True Christian's don't belive that they are morally superior to anyone, as we are taught by the Bible that we are not to judge. There will be only one judge in the end.
I do find the entire article facinating though. Once again, it's fine to trash Christian's, but write this article about Muslum's and they are justified in kills and terrorism by the media. Yet, how many Christian's are going to run out and kill someone because this article was written?
If you truly belive there is no God, then I feel sorry for you, not superior. But, if you want to make that case then how about not just aiming at Christian's!
You feel sorry for me because I don't believe in your god? How condescending. People like you are why religions is the shytehole it is.
Darryl, Maybe I misses something, I thought the article was about the hypocrisy of "choosing" one verse as the correct way to live and ignoring the rest (picking and choosing to fit your own ideals). I didn't read anything about the nature or existence of a deity, Although I personally don't believe in one.
I guess you are unfamiliar with the Crusades?
Hi Darryl,
True Christian's don't belive that they are morally superior to anyone, as we are taught by the Bible that we are not to judge. There will be only one judge in the end.
I find anyone saying anything that starts with "true Christians do this", is less likely to display traits that would incline me to believe they are followers of Christ than many who never even mention his name. While it is true that the bible requires those who believe it and hold it to authority to refrain from judgment of others, it is also true that humans find that difficult to do, without regard to religious belief.
I do find the entire article facinating though. Once again, it's fine to trash Christian's, but write this article about Muslum's and they are justified in kills and terrorism by the media. Yet, how many Christian's are going to run out and kill someone because this article was written?
I'm sorry. Maybe you read a different article than I did. Where are Christians trashed here? This article is written by an evangelical Christian woman, talking about what it means to be biblical. If there's any trashing of Christians going on here, it's from another Christian.
How does this have ANYTHING to do with Muslims?
If you truly belive there is no God, then I feel sorry for you, not superior. But, if you want to make that case then how about not just aiming at Christian's!
Perhaps you are unable to see how telling someone that you feel sorry for them makes you look as though you are putting yourself above them, believing yourself (or something about you, say your faith) is superior to them.
Rachel’s examination and conflict with her faith during adolescence was similar to what my friends and I experienced in our teenage years. However our experience lead us to Atheism, rather than an adjustment of faith.
Ministers in my town were using the bible to condemn everything from skateboarding to Nintendo. I also started attending church with friends, everything from Catholic to Pentecostal. I noticed a significant amount of sermon time was spent gossiping, ridiculing, and sometimes even damning the other denominations in my town.
It was all so ridiculous that I started to question everything. When I’d ask, I was always told to be quite and to stop thinking so much. I asked God what was right, but obviously I never heard anything back. By age 17 I concluded that it was just a bunch of angry old men out for personal gain.
In a town of 4,000 people, 3,800 won’t be burning in hell because they didn’t show up to your specific church that Sunday.
The Devil didn’t make the internet.
There were no satanic messages in early 90’s Paula Abdul singles.
Regarding Exodus 12:7: I think when interpreting a verse its important to ask what is the purpose of the verse. Is the purpose of this verse to recommend selling a daughter to be a maidservant? No, if one is honest, the purpose is to protect that daughter as much as possible in the case where that happens. So some allowance is made for sin in the law itself. That's why when Jesus was asked about divorce, he said that God had mercifully allowed it. Matthew 19:8 "“Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so." Also regarding marriage, Paul did say that a Christian would be freer to serve God if they were not married, but he also said that this arrangement was only good for those who had been called to it, and that the marriage bed was to be held in honor. Paul did not dishonor marriage at all. It's also important to note that marriage between a man and a woman is held up as a symbol or a type of the relationship between Christ and the church. The man and the woman are clearly assigned different roles in the marriage relationship, though both are joint heirs of salvation.
Exodus 21:10 outlines how sold daughters should be treated if they are second wives in polygamous marriages.
sorry, but the bible is definitely not 'the word of god.' i was shocked when i finally realized that. the cause? knowledge. do some research and be honest with yourself. secular=free!
The Bible includes examples and explanations of the way to live your life and the way not to live your life. So, Scriptures that talk about polygamy are not there to support it or refute it they exist to show the way not to do things.
God rewards Abraham's dishonesty in Genisis. Refute that.
The Old Testament stories are fable at best. There is certainly no reason to believe in any of the supernatural events described therein. Authors of the New Testament added some new compelling stories with its own bits of supernatural wizardry by trying to carefully back each other up with various witness accounts that we know of today only through writings and trust in the early church regarding said writings. The latter NT authors, mainly Paul, got pretty chatty and introduced much more material that would become fodder for contradicting interpretation than was already in the NT. But their deception becomes obvious because to meet their new tenets, early Christians had to add some twists on the OT interpretation to make that folklore better serve as a basis for Christianity. And of course the Mormons did the exactly same thing with its own variation – twist and add.
In short, there are some good stories and a few good lessons in the Bible, but other than that, it's claim to describe connection to a higher being is completely unfounded. It's importance has been dangerously over-valued, rendering Judeo-Christian religions dangerous, divisive and guilty of hampering human progress – progress on all levels, but especially social progress. Islam is no more credible. Iron age fable is fable.
good form, old bean.
Are you saying that you don't believe in the Bible, or that you don't believe in God, or both?
@Sodapop: I should first ask – which god? But it matters not – the answer is still no to both. The god of abraham hasn't gone anywhere man didn't take him.
Evans has no idea what she is talking about. If she really knew what she was reading when she read the Bible, she'd find much more important issues than egalitarianism. She can be the best C.E.O. or journalist or president for that matter, but places the Bible into question as her own vandetta. Face it lady, the Bible addresses more serious issues than your prima donna desire for success. Jon Stewart isn't much better. If he had truly read that the Bible as boldly saying POLYGAMY DOESN'T WORK, maybe he'd not look so much like an idiot. READ THE BOOK FOR GOD'S SAKE not your own horror-scope!!!
Ron, you are the only one who knows what they are talking about! Thankfully we have you to set all things straight.
Nice rant. What, exactly, is your point?
lol. Nice, MadTown. At least Ron can spell and use punctuation. Seems like 90% of the people who care enough to post on here are functionally illiterate.
I thought your post to be thought provoking and what a wonderful experiment! The truth is that the bible is full of contradictions and laws that are no longer followed. I believe it to be God's personal love letter to us. What I will derive from its meaning, may be completely different in interpretation than someone else.
I also believe that hard core interpretations of anything biblical were in fact, discouraged when used to harm others.
I believe it to be God's personal love letter to us.
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Interesting. Why do you supposed that God didn't grant access to this love letter to all his equal human creations? Doesn't God love all of humanity equally? Aren't we all created equal? There are millions of people in this world right now, who have never heard the name Jesus Christ, and have never heard the word "bible". They are your human equal. Why wouldn't God pen a love letter to them?
In her defense, just because you haven't received or found a letter yet doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't addressed to you. Also, in this day and age, I'm not sure it's accurate to say that there are "millions" in the world who have never heard of or had access to the bible. a) it's a pretty big deal, and b) media and the internet reach the vast majority of humanity now.
I'm not sure it's accurate to say that there are "millions" in the world who have never heard of or had access to the bible
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Oh no? There aren't all sorts of more primitive societies, cultures, and even countries still in existence today? You are mistaken. Certainly technology has made the world smaller but if you think there aren't large amounts of humans who have no current access to christianity, and likely never will, then you live in a small little box.
Leave it to a Blogger to thoroughly muddy the waters. Maybe she should remain silent on the internet as well.
What was her point??? Is she for or against??? It’s wrong to quote the Bible now?
Is she saying that, if you’re not willing to obey all the biblical laws, then don’t obey any?
you really need that much guidance?
All she is doing is telling a story about her experience and then saying that everybody is selective when it comes to following the Bible. She doesn't have to tell you what to do.
I thought so. then she is saying nothing at all. A blogger looking to see her name in print. She believes, and then questions, then criticizes.
Hey Troll, that's what you just did idiot. You believed, and then questioned, then criticized. What a moron.
What kinds of moronic child doesn't question their own oppression? She is not smart enough to talk to us about ANYTHING!
Jesus Christ himself said that the entire law could be summed up with the following...
1. Love the Lord you God with all your heart.
2. Love you neighbor as yourself.
That, to me, is living "Biblical". And that is the essence of true Christianity. If you love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as much as you love yourself, everything else will take care of itself.
Everything else is legalism.
You got it Mark !!! Now comes the hard part; trying to live our lives in such a manner. That's why "Biblical Scholars" start looking for loopholes in "The Bible" to get around this difficult task.
Thanks for your greeting card explanation. However your bible has many rules you Christians conveniently forget. Your cherry pickers, revisionists, apologists, and hypocrites. You can't even agree on the most basic tenants of your own faith.
See this is why I argue against religious folks. You make a statement that your man-god "said" something. Were you there? Did you witness it? Did he visit you? The FACT is you have no idea what Jesus said. You folks should preface what you say with " I believe without reason that.....".
Yeah. And God also says in the bible that if you worship another god you should be killed. If you argue with your parents, you should be killed, if you engage in debate, you should be killed. If you don't believe in him you and your children should be killed. He even talks about ripping suckling babies from their mothers and killing them. Any irony here with the Christian position of abortion? All at the same time as making a commandment that states Thou shalt not kill. Really? Please stop quoting your nonsense and get your head out of the sand.
Pearls before swine Mark
that is the essence of Christianity, but unfortunately there is very little evidence that Jesus actually said those words. Those are from the Gospel of Mark, likely the last gospel written, and pieced together by multiple writers who were heavily influenced by the Apostle Paul. Nice message, but again, very little reason to believe that Jesus was the origin.
Its a fair enough point that there are differing interpretations of biblical text. But if you believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, as you say, you must agree that there is one correct interpretation of each verse. True that some verses are difficult and generate more disagreement among believers about what it means, so we should perhaps wisely stay away from those as final authority on any particular issue. Otherwise the opposite extreme is that it doesn't really mean anything at all, and we can read into the bible whatever we wish. Also everyone who wishes to criticize the bible starts with the old testament law, and pretends to have no idea that every believing theologian has agreed that some of it applies to ancient Israel only and other parts are universal. Is any serious believing theologian suggesting that we ought to sell daughters into slavery to pay off debt, as part of our obedience to biblical principles? So isn't it setting up a bit of a straw man to bring it up?
Umm, referencing literature from the source is now a straw man?
Yes, it can be, if one willfully misinterprets the original text and provides no context, such as hundreds of years of agreement among believers about the basic interpretation of the old testament law. Unfortunately part of the problem is that many believers these days are somewhat illiterate on these matters.
I've always wondered what Mark Twain meant when he said "It aint' the parts of the Bible I don't understand that confound me, it's the parts I do."
Why would you find that a puzzle, Billy? It's pretty clear what Twain meant.
@Skyhill – "agreement among believers"....really? that's your metric? agreement among folks sharing a common interest? And what are the percentages of agreement among academic theologians? oops....
Well Tom, one explanation, which I'm sure many agree with, is that Twain had the same issues with reconciling literal readings of select Scriptures with every day life. Another explanation, which I'm equally sure applies to many, is that he understood very well what the Bible intended but his pride and arrogance rejected the instruction.
Christians believe that non-believers (roughly 70% of the world's population) will suffer in hell for eternity. You will suffer for eternity for what you believe ie for thought-crime. Christians believe that this is fair and just. They tell us that their god is a loving god. They will say that you have a choice. But where is the choice? If someone comes up to you and puts a gun to your head and says give me money or die, you have a choice as well, right? But you wouldn't call the being that put the gun to your head a loving and just person. Why do you call the sadistic god that you worship loving and just either? Christians think they are morally superior to everyone else. Please explain to me how this is so.
it's the religious organizations who seek to influence political discourse – and the adherents who attempt to secularize their theology that are the problem.
but they aren't quite as big a problem as all the ignorant people who tolerate all this religious idiocy.
It's not because of ie for thought-crime.
Hell is separation from God and those that do not want to live with God will not have to. Those that understand the just judgment 100% of the world desires then we understand the grace and mercy God has shown us, wanting to be with him for eternity.
True Christian's don't belive that they are morally superior to anyone, as we are taught by the Bible that we are not to judge. There will be only one judge in the end.
I do find the entire article facinating though. Once again, it's fine to trash Christian's, but write this article about Muslum's and they are justified in kills and terrorism by the media. Yet, how many Christian's are going to run out and kill someone because this article was written?
If you truly belive there is no God, then I feel sorry for you, not superior. But, if you want to make that case then how about not just aiming at Christian's!
TRUE xians sell all they have – and give it to the poor. it even says so in the bible. if you call yourself xian and don't sell all your possessions and give them to the poor... you are just a poseur.
we are taught by the Bible that we are not to judge. There will be only one judge in the end
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What about other cultures who have no access to christianity, but have their own notions of God and spirituality? Are they on the right path, as you think you are? If someone has never heard of the bible, how are they to follow what's inside?
Sugar coat hell all you want Mike. The bible describes it as one nasty place. You really think anyone deserves to go there for what they think? Give me a break. A hindu in India, an athiest in China, a muslum in Iraq, or a "spiritual but not religious" in the USA do not deserve punishment for their beliefs any more than a christian deserves a reward for his.
How come, Mike, no one is able to answer the question: What about the people who never receive the teachings or knowledge of this so-called loving god? Are they automatically doomed for eternity?
"If you truly belive there is no God, then I feel sorry for you, not superior. "
You REALLY can't see how degrading your pity is? Don't you realize that the only reason that you believe in a god is because someone told you to?
@the AnViL
Please provide the reference you are referring to in context that may help
@mk
": What about the people who never receive the teachings or knowledge of this so-called loving god? Are they automatically doomed for eternity?"
Jesus never answers that question. So I can not answer it for you. But you are not part of the above group so you must make a intelligent decision on what you think of Jesus life, teaching, death, resurrection and the claims that Christ did make
@biobraine
"You really think anyone deserves to go there for what they think?"
Yes, including me. If you see it as you have committed treason against the Creator of this world by not living by the way He designed it then that can be eye-opening. And every country prosecutes treason with death Romans 6:23
"A hindu in India, an athiest in China, a muslum in Iraq, or a "spiritual but not religious" in the USA do not deserve punishment for their beliefs any more than a christian deserves a reward for his."
Great now please back up why you believe your belief is correct.
If someone has never heard of the bible, how are they to follow what's inside?
romans 1:18-22
Mike from CT
If someone has never heard of the bible, how are they to follow what's inside?
romans 1:18-22
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is utter brilliance(sarcasm). To answer the question about what someone should do if they don't have access to the bible.................you give a biblical scripture reference. Again: LOL!!!!
No, and sarcasm is not neither. I answered the question as to what the bible says the answer is to those that did not, and still do not have the bible. Luckily you, nor the OP are in that situation so you can see what the answer is.
Sorry that went over your head and you had to laugh off your inability to comprehend that.
neither*=needed
Yes, because this just says it all so clearly:
"20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"
So, a person who's never had access to the bible, and doesn't have the first idea who Jesus Christ is, will still be held accountable for not following Christ, because all are "without excuse"? Is that what you believe?
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
(Romans 1:21-23 ESV)
Yes. Not for not knowing Christ, but for exchanging worship for the creation instead of the Creator.