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Rubio ignites debate with answer about creationism
November 19th, 2012
04:19 PM ET

Rubio ignites debate with answer about creationism

By Dan Merica and Eric Marrapodi, CNN

Washington (CNN) – Florida Sen. Marco Rubio attempted to walk the line between science and faith-based creationism in remarks that that have provoked the ire of liberal blogs, leaving the door open to creationism in responding to a recent question about the age of the Earth.

When GQ’s Michal Hainey asked Rubio, in an interview released Monday, “How old do you think the Earth is,” the rising Republican star described the debate about the planet’s age as “one of the great mysteries.”

“I'm not a scientist, man,” Rubio told the interviewer. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.”

“Whether the Earth was created in seven days, or seven actual eras,” Rubio continued, “I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.”

Most scientists agree that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe is 14.5 billion years old. Christian Young Earth Creationists, on the other hand, argue that the weeklong account of God creating the Earth and everything in it represents six 24-hour periods (plus one day of rest) and date the age of the Earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years.

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Left-leaning blogs and sites like ThinkProgress and Huffington Post jumped on Rubio’s comments, with the Zack Beauchamp from ThingProgress writing, “To suggest we can’t know how old the Earth is, then, is to deny the validity of these scientific methods altogether — a maneuver familiar to Rubio, who also denies the reality of anthropogenic climate change.”

Rubio is regarded as a possible Republican presidential candidate in 2016, though the senator says his visit last week to Iowa, home of the first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses, had “nothing to do with 2016.”

His response to GQ’s age of the Earth query has also provoked questions about his political aspirations. Dave Weigel of Slate writes, “How can you read that and not think ‘Iowa’? ” The state is the first to hold a presidential caucus in 2016.

Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years, according to a survey released by Gallup in June. That number has remained unchanged for the past 30 years, since 1982, when Gallup first asked the question on creationism versus evolution.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

The second most common view is that humans evolved with God's guidance - a view held by 32% of respondents. The view that humans evolved with no guidance from God was held by 15% of respondents.

The Gallup poll has not specifically asked about views on the age of the Earth.

Rubio attends a Baptist church in southern Florida but also considers himself “a practicing Catholic.”

He was born Catholic, but his family converted to Mormonism when Rubio was 8 years old, according to Rubio’s recent memoir. The family left its LDS faith behind when it moved from Nevada back to Florida and Rubio was confirmed in the Catholic Church.

Catholic teaching is that science and faith are not at odds with one another and it is possible to believe what scientists say about the Earth’s age and in God. But many evangelical churches, including Baptist ones, promote a version of creationism.

When CNN reached out to Rubio’s Baptist church in Florida on Monday, a person answering the phone would not comment on its teachings about the Earth’s age and said that a church representative was unlikely to be available in the near term.

During the GQ interview, Rubio argued that “there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all.”

For the past 30 years, the “equal-time argument” –- the idea that Creationism taught alongside evolution -– has been popular method for Creationists to advance their cause. In the late 1980s, some state legislatures passed bills that promoted the idea of a balanced treatment of both ideas in the classroom.

In 1987, the issue made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where a Louisiana "equal-time law" was struck down. The court ruled that teaching creationism in public school classrooms was a violation of the Establishment Cause in the Constitution, which is commonly referred to as the separation of church and state.

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Creationism • Politics

soundoff (6,211 Responses)
  1. Brandon

    Its sad that so many people talk so negatively about God. I hope all of the God haters are looking forward to Hell.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • gladiatorgrl

      it's imaginary

      p.s. Chris Angel can walk on water – doesn't make him a God

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • Buck

      You are not confident in what YOU believe if you spend any amount of time bashing someone that has different beliefs than you. That goes for Christians, Atheists, or anyone.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Jesus

      I have met you Brandon and you are a moron.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Eric G

      Please explain talking negative about your god? For me to talk in a negative about your god, you would first need to prove that your god exists. Without this proof, it would only be possible for me to speak in a negative regarding your concept of a god. That concept would be a reflection of your own creation, and thus any negative comments must be directed at you.

      Please provide any verifiable evidence that your god exists and I will make every attempt to direct any negative comments towards that god and not at you.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • sam

      I'll bring the s'mores!

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • ME II

      Judging others? Perhaps you need to worry about Hell.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Oh, and an all-powerful deity can't handle a little lip from its creations? Really? If there was a god, it would be far more likely that god would reward people who actually use the brains god gave them. In other words, Brandon, you had best hope that there is no god, or you are in for a toasty time!

      November 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Satan

      Nice trolling.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Post by 'Brandon' is a form of the flawed argument known as Pascal's Wager

      http://fallacyfiles.org/glossary.html

      November 20, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • Which God?

      Prove to me there is a hell.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I worry about hell as much as I believe in it.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      cant hate what you dont believe in brandon. It would be like you hating a purple pixie called nigel....unless of course you actually believe there is such a thing.

      November 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm |
    • MikeHess

      I am. They got all the best musicians.

      November 20, 2012 at 5:09 pm |
    • End Religion

      OP asks why the neagtivity against god, then condemns us all to hell. LOL!

      November 20, 2012 at 6:11 pm |
  2. Jesus was a space alien

    For the GOP creationism is going to be destructionism. Watch them implode if they keep with the pseudo-science agenda.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
  3. JNM 1982

    "Rubio is regarded as a possible Republican presidential candidate in 2016...." which explains why this is "newsworthy." Hello? Rubio didn't even give an answer; he said he didn't know. He said let the scientists and theologians debate it. For God's sake, we just had an election, and the leftists are already trying to demonize the next Republican candidates. Y'all are already trying to put words in his mouth and mischaracterize his statements. What a shame. Get a life. Rubio was right about one thing: it's one of the great mysteries. And don't try to tell me science has already proven the age of the earth. I remember back when scientists "proved" margerine was better for you than butter. Then they changed their mind about that. I think the question of the earth's age is much more complicated than butter.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Regardless of how complicated you think the question is, there is simply no way that the Earth is 6,000 years old. Or 10,000. Is it 4.4 Billion? 5 Billion? 4 Billion? I don't know. But it's NOT 6,000

      November 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Satan

      actually, it has been proven, and there is no debate about it whatsoever. If you doubt the age of the earth then you should doubt the fact that you exist or that gravity is holding you in place. For that matter you should doubt all of quantum physics which governs how your small brain fails to work.

      Keep doubting, hillbillies. See you in 2016 when you get totally owned again.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      " Y'all are already trying to put words in his mouth" Sorry, it's the words that came out of his mouth that have already skunked him. Trying to kiss up to the right-wing crazies is what's wrecked the GOP. Tell the truth; the world is real and not some bookish fantasy-land like in Tolkien.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • intothemoonbeam

      The fact he is on a science committee makes it news worthy. You shouldn't be saying "I don't know" to questions like this if you are on a science committee. Sorry but this deserves to be publicized, he's an idiot.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • JNM 1982

      He said he didn't know how old the earth is. He also said he knows what the Bible says. We can therefore conclude that he does not believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible. You leftists are trying to bash him and mischaracterize what he said. Lucky for you, there is a sizeable percentage of the general public who are ignorant and naive enough to believe all the smearing that the left puts out there. What he said is the LEAST controversial thing that anyone could probably say, yet here you are trying to make a controversy out of it. But, hey, this smearing might work. I think there were a few people who actually believed in the "war on women" that doesn't even exist in this country.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:24 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'He said let the scientists and theologians debate it'

      actually no he didnt, he said it was tehologians only. He never mentioned scientists.
      And no it isnt a 'great mystery', it really isnt.

      November 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm |
    • End Religion

      Thank goodness intelligence impaired folks like JNM 1982 are dying out. Whew!

      November 20, 2012 at 6:15 pm |
  4. Incredulous

    Rubio is either:
    1) dumb enough to believe this because he doesn't have an elementary school understanding of science...
    Or 2) he's a shameless liar willing to shred his integrity & beliefs by saying whatever's most politically convenient.

    Which would you rather have in office? An under-educated moron, or a self-serving liar?

    46%: Americans who believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years
    32%: humans evolved with God's guidance
    15%: humans evolved with no guidance from God

    This is why we're an international laughing stock and falling so far behind in education, manufacturing, etc.
    More than half the country doesn't understand the most basic, fundamental science about life on earth.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • TheOriginalME

      number 2 is the correct one 😉

      November 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Matt

      The vast majority of people in this world are fools. That's why democracy is a scary process. At the moment the country is being lead by the socialist fools and that somehow scares me more than the right wing fanaticals. The potential for total economic collapse is very real in socialist structured societies.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
  5. Satan

    Muhahahhahahaaa. Then Buwuhahahahahaha... FAIL.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
  6. SatanVSJesus

    Science flys you to the moon!

    Religion flys you into ignorant bliss.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • Freedom FROM Religion

      Correction: Religion flies people into buildings.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Religion also flies people into buildings

      November 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Buck

      Is the word "flies" really that difficult for you?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • RadicalModerate

      This ignorant religious person knows how to spell flies.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
  7. Bilbo

    This always cracks me up..."most scientists agree..." Bull. Scientists haven't got a clue how old the universe is...not a clue. How good is science that says that if I can't see something it doesn't exist. Most people attribute something like that to faith. So scientists have to take it on faith that the universe is a certain age simply because it's based on OBSERVATIONS...and as far as the UNIVERSE is concerned there is NO WAY to know what's out there unseen. What we can observe is mind blowing enormous. To start suggesting ages and such like we have a grasp of the whole thing is foolish. Rubio is right...it has nothing to do with the problems we face and the job of the President...next question.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Scientists haven't got a clue how old the universe is...not a clue. '

      sorry bilbo but i think you have better chance of guessing what i have in my pocket than of your claim being anywhere close to being correct.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Bible Clown©

      "Scientists haven't got a clue how old the universe is." What are you even talking about, fool? You must be in the ninth grade and repeating something you heard in a sermon. Your whole post is just blather – "How good is science that says that if I can't see something it doesn't exist. " That's almost exactly the opposite of a scientific approach, kid. You cannot see an electron, but if you hold this wire while I plug this in, I can let you feel a few of them. You are saying science denies the existence of sub-microscopic particles? Really? You sure?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Matt

      Either the earth is 4.5 billion years or it was created with a 4.5 billion year old record. The first assumption is more logical.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • ME II

      @Bilbo,
      "Scientists haven't got a clue how old the universe is...not a clue."
      Not that you'll read it, but
      http://ncse.com/cej/1/2/evidence-supporting-great-age-universe

      "...if I can't see something it doesn't exist."
      This is nowhere in science as far as I know. Counter examples, include radiation, gravity, dark matter, dark energy, germ (before microscopes), etc.

      "What we can observe is mind blowing enormous."
      So, what you're saying is, 'I can't handle it, so you don't have a clue.'?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • zandhcats

      Without the knowledge of science, you don't even know what internet is. Rubio is another big liar after the fall of Paul Ryan. Playing the religion in politic only can fool the uneducated, the majority don't buy it.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Incredulous

      How can you confuse "observation" of real, physical characteristics with "faith" in a story that is utterly destroyed by the actual data?? I think you need to look up "faith" and "circular reasoning."

      To your point: everything we CAN observe, and have measured for decades, indicates that the universe is AT LEAST 1,000,000 times older than the alternative Rubio refused to dismiss. There is no comparison, and NO credible evidence for recognizing a biblical alternative. If anything, anything "unseen" would make us realize it's even older. Even if we can't nail it down to a precise day/year/decade/millenium, there is absolutely ZERO evidence for concluding that the earth and universe are less than several billion years old.

      This is relevant, because it means Rubio is either ignorant of basic science, unwilling to listen to basic science & therefore incapable of making rational policy, OR he's a manipulative liar who will say anything to get into office. I don't want either of those people in elected office, and neither should you.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • corpsegrind3r

      With the use of current scientific technology and methodologies, some of our best scientists have come up with the current estimate of a universe roughly 14 billion years old. Then there is the creationist vision that was created roughly 2,000 years ago without any of this technology or even the most basic of understanding of the solar system let alone the universe. Hell, they didn't even know that the Earth was round. So, can we please use some common sense here? Which estimate is most likely to be correct? When are the creationists going to give it up? Talk about sore losers.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Doug

      Um...Radar measures distances in our solar system.
      Stellar Parallax measures the distance to stars based on the mathematical knowlege of the geometry of earth's orbit around the sun.
      Cepheid Variables are stars that brighten and dim periodically. They are measured by the variation in brightness to the time allowed between each change, This measures the distance to objects 10s of millions of light years across.
      Supernovae: For distances between galaxies, scientists measure the brightness of supernovae based on the mathematical formulae used to determine brightness as measured by distance, called "The Standard Candle".
      So far, none of this is theory, but mathematical fact. To determine the distaces beyond a billion light years, the standard measure IS a theory called "The Hubble Effect" that measures the red shift movement of galaxies in relation to one another. But even IT is supported by mathematical fact based on the observable universe. So there is little gray area here, Bilbo.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
    • Which God?

      So tell me, Bilbo, are you repeating the 8th grade, for the third time?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • Ticktockman

      I can't see you, but based on the evidence of your simplistic writing, I am pretty sure you exist.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • joe

      an ignorant population is a big concern for the president.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:58 pm |
    • End Religion

      @bilbo: Back to school, idiot. For Frodo!

      November 20, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
  8. God

    I like the science that creates vaccines, x-rays, Novocain, Radio, internal combustion engines, computers, and cell phones, but I don't like the (same) science that says the earth is 4.5 Billion Years old.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • Bilbo

      Don't forget Piltdown man and Cold Fusion.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      What is your point, Bilbo?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
    • End Religion

      Bilbo doesn't have a point because he doesn't understand the things he says. He read them somewhere and can type the words, so that's good enough for him.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm |
  9. allenwoll

    .
    ANOTHER Mitt-in-the-Making ! ! !

    November 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
  10. Snow

    if creationism is so great to be taught in the public schools, why should only the christian version of creationism be taught? why not the Hindu.. or greek creationism.. there are some mighty cool stories with great morals in those..

    I would absolutely support the creationism to be taught as long as every version according to every religion (of at least all the kids in the school) is taught in the classroom.

    cool compromise, eh?

    November 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
    • SarahH

      I always thought that, too. I'm a full fledged evolutionist, but if you are going to force teachers to teach one version (christian) of creationism, then ALL should be included. I'm rather fond of the the Norse Pagan version myself.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • Evangelical

      It's called Intelligent Design. Read up on it.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • corpsegrind3r

      "Intelligent design" is an oxymoron. There's nothing intelligent about it. And if the designer was so intelligent, why is it that so many species have gone extinct? And if you actually believe the bible, why has this designer had to eradicate his own creations? Hmm, I guess this "intelligent" designer is quite fallible. Makes sense that it created man in its likeness.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • EEE

      Other religions are taught in schools. I was taught about Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc. in the American public school system (90's). But not one word was uttered about Christianity. Funny how that works, isn't it?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • SarahH

      Evangelical- Thanks! I have. Still don't agree with it. Additionally, I don't think any creationism should be included in a SCIENCE class. Science and religion are not the same. Science has been proven by observation and experimentation. Religion is stories in a book that says I'm inferior to men and I can't eat shellfish or wear clothing of mixed fibers. Creationism does NOT belong in a public school classroom.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • End Religion

      There's Eva's daily non-content post to remind us all how vapid he is.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:21 pm |
  11. jesucristo

    The future of the GOP is a creationist? Awesome

    November 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • End Religion

      Just wait tuntil we can begin cloning some dinosaurs. Creationists will have a field day with the fact that humans and dinos "again" walk the planet together.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
  12. Huebert

    I have a question for all young earth believers. What do you think the word "theory" means?

    November 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • kalo

      It means its just a guess because mommy told me so, and she watches Fox News! The only true thing on tv.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • Theo

      Why would an all knowing GOD, put us on this planet with finite resources, tell us to be fruitful and multiply. THEN make the believers hate science and common sense, when science is the only chance to get off the rock we live on ?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • gladiatorgrl

      Earth believers?? OK

      A scientific theory has supporting evidence with peer review and some actual reality/logic.
      A theological theory can just make it up with no proof needed only – faith.

      proof there are talking snakes? the world was populated by a climate controlled boat full of animals and organisms that don't eat each other?..... not so much

      November 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Allaisa

      Considering that there are five great religions besides atheism, if you adopt the theory of creationism based on the Bible then should you not be teaching the beliefs of other four religions atleast, leaving aside the beliefs of the atheists? May be we should and then our children will be spending all their time trying to reconcile the differences leaving no time for STEM subjects. Few years from now we will out Taliban the Taliban!

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
  13. jesucristo

    Meanwhile we keep burning oil while the world develops new energy technologies, china beats us in supercompuing, europe beats us in particle science, we are number 15 in internet access in developed nations, we have to import indians to do our tech jobs in silicon valley .... people like rubio are dangerous, as dangerous as those old folks that cant seem to remember Mayberry was on the TV and pine for the good ole days that never was

    November 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • ME II

      techically the US has the fastest supercomputer, http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2012/11/12/oak-ridge-new-titan-supercomputer-is-fastest-in-world/, but I get your point.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
  14. Not Unexpected

    Once again a leading Republican refuses to state unequivocably that he believes in science. Science has proven how old the earth is. But in keeping with his party's position, Rubio is not big enough to stand with what is known as truth through proof. Until the Republicans start to make statements and take positions with what is known about all branches of science, they will be nothing more than the party stuck in the 18th century and not fit to lead this country in the 21st.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • Matt

      There are just as many baptist and catholic zealots in the democratic party who also believe amazingly foolish things.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
  15. kalo

    I love when people think Christianity will help government, the height of Roman debauchery and failure was when Christianity became the state religion. People need to stop falling asleep in history class, Chrisitanity only produces wars in government and more ancient armies were gay.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • JesusVsSatan

      Religious people have to want to convert everyone, they cant stand someone else's beliefs how can they be right if there are other beliefs, so this fear wants them to have religion in government to force it on people, so they can think happy happy thought and be dumb as a doornail

      November 20, 2012 at 3:07 pm |
  16. Theo

    Science has proven many things in bible to be nonsense, it has never gone the other way.

    Even if you take Science out of equation, Rituals, Robes, Candles, and Praying ??? come on its common sense that can not
    do anything, its as barbaric as thinking a rain-dance will work. WAKE UP people Religion was 1st created to explain the unknown, later morphed by the leaders into a control method.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • TheDude

      You smart, Theo. You basically summed it up right there. Why aren't there more Theo's in the world?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
  17. Eriberto Aguilar

    Rubio's about to screw himself. The more reasonable members of the GOP are fed up with the Tea Partiers and Creationists, and are going to make a move to take back control of their party from the numbskulls who have held sway for a decade now. And if they do, Rubio had better plant his feet firmly on the side of good science and good sense or he's toast.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • Akira

      He will conform to whatever the flavor of the day is, if he want to keep his political aspirations alive.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Matt

      I think the GOP needs a Latino candidate in 2016 but maybe Rubio is not the guy. I knew the moment that Romney did not pick a Latino VP that he was going to lose the election.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:35 pm |
    • Matt

      Rubio is not about to screw himself. He did screw himself. This issue will haunt him if he runs for President. And the answer he gave demonstrates he has a low IQ, which will just cook the wrong way for the electorate.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
  18. Sigh

    I remember when atheists used to be rational. What happened to that?

    November 20, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Umm, that was past, present, and future. Would you care to elaborate on how atheists are not rational?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Groan

      What is your example of atheists not being rational?

      November 20, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • kalo

      3/10 troll

      November 20, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • JesusVsSatan

      Id say a religious adult that goes to a magic house every sunday, with magic statues and candles and gives money to the magic basket is the most irrational thing i ever heard of.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • wil

      As opposed to the magic that somehow created all from nothing than decided to come alive and become incalculably complex all by itself without an intelligent guiding force. Yeah, rational thinking at its highest form, lol.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Sigh

      Atheists then: Respectful, presenting rational arguments as to why they settled on their disbelief in gods.
      Atheists now: Vehement children, pathetically attacking the beliefs of others and asserting their disbelief makes them rational rather than their rationality leading to their disbelief.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
    • Incredulous

      @wil: your error there is thinking anything "decided to become alive and incalculably complex."
      There was no decision – it's just probabilities, chemistry, and the propagation of a closed system.
      What's irrational is ignoring all of the evidence for evolution, and all of processes & interactions we now have the ability to observe, just to support a storybook that far predates any of the technology that makes such understanding possible. And for what? Just to pay a priest & help you sleep better at night? ...K.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:44 pm |
    • wil

      What you're leaving out is that the probabilities for what I described are incalculable, rendering virtually impossible. Scientific fact: Something can not come from nothing. Atheism violates basic scientific law.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • corpsegrind3r

      @Sigh ... welcome to the internet ... if you don't believe their are creationist trolls as well – have faith

      November 20, 2012 at 3:51 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @wil

      You are confused. An atheist just lacks belief. An atheist does NOT need to say that something comes from nothing or that something doesn't come from nothing. Besides, who says that there was ever "nothing?" As far as I can tell, just god believers who want to violate their own rule and say that everything comes from something,..... but.......um..... well.... not god...he can come from nothing.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • Incredulous

      @Sigh: attempting to make rational arguments gets tedious when it amounts to beating your head against a brick wall – it tends to make people irritated and impolite. Trouble is, you can't make a case based on evidence or logic anymore, because people now simply deny the value of evidence. They refuse to be persuaded of facts despite decades of meticulous data/observation and scientific consensus. It's simply due to willful stubbornness, and there's no getting around it. Others may not be stubborn, but don't understand how logic & science work in the first place – they are incapable of weighing evidence they don't understand in order to reach a rational conclusion.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • wil

      Oh please get over yourselves fact is you have no answer to what I wrote so yeah I'll call him ignorant and uneducated and I'll feel better about myself and he'll go away. And Moby if u believe there was always something than it will be no problem for you to believe God always existed. How's that for simple, logical thought.

      November 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Wil, Your points have been refuted but yourefuse to accept. If in your opinion something must have a creator, then who created god. If your response is "god doesn't need a creator" then as someone above said why can't the universe just exist? We don't know; that doesnn't mean a god did it or that god exists.

      November 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
    • wil

      And as I said if you believe the universe always existed than it will be no problem believing God always existed. Here's more logic: Who is more likely to cause cause incalculable complexity to exist, a dumb always existing universe or an always existing intelligent creator? Can unintelligence cause intelligence? Do you have any idea of the odds involved for the human body to have formed itself as it has all by itself for no reason whatsoever? As I said, what really is the bigger fairy tale?

      November 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
    • wil

      As for who created God, do you really think the very limited human mind can really begin to comprehend the nature of one who would have to be by nature unlimited? Simply foolish pride and arrogance to think we can... again, if one point is proven not possible than the only other alternative has to be correct, one which cannot be proven to not be true.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
    • wil

      "by his very nature"

      November 20, 2012 at 6:27 pm |
    • End Religion

      wil you are imploding. Your logic does not compute. Being an atheist doesn't mean we all have to line up and answer your laundry list of Ad Hoc Hypothesis philosophy questions. We live in a reality based on supporting evidence. You don't have to live in that reality if you don't want, but please then do not be a hypocrite and visit a doctor, take medicine, fly in a plane, use a computer or phone of any type.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:45 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Wil, I'm not closed to the idea of a god, but there is no evidence of a god since the Big Bang so my expectb>ation is that there isn't a god. Presuming that a god put the pieces in place and let creab>tion happen (the only scenb>ario that could fit in with the science) it isn't the god of your bible.
      You assign wonb>drous atb>tributes to a god, why couldn't a universe have those atb>tributes.
      Just because we don't know doesn't mean a god exists or that god did it.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      Wil, I'm not closed to the idea of a god, but there is no evidence of a god since the Big Bang so my expectation is that there isn't a god. Presuming that a god put the pieces in place and let creation happen (the only scenario that could fit in with the science) it isn't the god of your bible.
      You assign wondrous attributes to a god, why couldn't a universe have those attributes.
      Just because we don't know doesn't mean a god exists or that god did it.

      November 20, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
    • wil

      @end religion – Typical, have no answers so fall back on belittling. True intellectual giants you atheists are.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And we beat you to a pulp every time. Sore loser.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:17 pm |
    • wil

      @santa- If you think there is no evidence for God you are truly blind, please stop believing everything evolutionists tell you, read what I've said previously, if you assign intelligence to the universe than you are admitting to a Creator, there is no getting around this. As for christianity not being true you obviously have never studied the evidences for it, get back to me when you have (google is a good start).

      November 20, 2012 at 9:24 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      wil, your post is truly amusing. Google as a source? Please, dude. Get a clue. There is no evidence that a god exists. None. If there were, everyone would believe.

      You must be very young or very stupid. Or both.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:26 pm |
    • wil

      @tomtom – sure you do, keep dreaming. Any one who knows their stuff will own every atheist/evolutionist every time, the unanswerable that I've already posted is only the beginning of what we can do to your arguments.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      wil sounds like he's about 4 mm tall.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yah. I keep picturing the elves from that new animated flick..Glhaoijhosdhoah! goigoagh! goigoaihons!oujpojupojlsmalfga! PJ!

      November 20, 2012 at 9:35 pm |
    • mama k

      wil – "the very limited human mind can really begin to comprehend the nature of one who would have . ."

      see – here's where you fail – creating a god in man's own image. you're doing it just like people long before Abraham were doing it.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:37 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      wil
      "@tomtom – sure you do, keep dreaming."

      Sure I do what? Think you're a little dweeb about 15 years old? Guilty. Prove otherwise. Your writing indicts you as a boob.

      Any one who knows their stuff will own every atheist/evolutionist every time, the unanswerable that I've already posted is only the beginning of what we can do to your arguments.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      wil I suck sez: "Any one who knows their stuff will own every atheist/evolutionist every time, the unanswerable that I've already posted is only the beginning of what we can do to your arguments."

      Have at it, honey. I can hardly wait for you to show us all how you measure up to the scientists and researchers who've published article after article in peer-reviewed journals.

      Surprise me.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:40 pm |
    • wil

      @little tommy troll someplace else.

      @mama – the fact you can't even comprehend what I just said shows the mentality I'm dealing with here, will only respond to intelligent posts from this point on.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:44 pm |
  19. Ayatollah of Rock and Rollah

    Well, so much for his Presidential hopes.

    November 20, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
  20. eduardo f

    This party, with its 19th century views on science, women and religiion, will take another beating in 2016

    November 20, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • wil

      Unfortunately you may be right, it seems America is all for infanticide, socialism and the faith that founded this nation. Our Founding Fathers are turning over in their grave.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • sam

      wil, that's silly. Go away.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • wil

      Lol, ignorant children speaking, go bow before your great God Obama...

      November 20, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Which God?

      wil, you are a religious nutjob, and an ignorant purveyor of myths.

      November 20, 2012 at 3:53 pm |
    • wil

      @which God? And you are an uneducated simpleton. You want to keep going? You'll never win have at it.

      November 20, 2012 at 5:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, wil, are the founders all buried together? Sure sounds like you think so, based on your stupid post.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:18 pm |
    • mama k

      I smell someone thinking that the U.S. was founded on the Christian faith. Where is he? Let me at him.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:21 pm |
    • mama k

      Do you like this founding father, wil? Oh someone who was say the chief architect of our Constitution?

      During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

      (James Madison – A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the Virginia General Assembly, 1785)

      November 20, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      *cracking up at mama k*

      You are FIERCE!

      November 20, 2012 at 9:33 pm |
    • wil

      You all ever hear of the Puritans? Pilgrims? ALL the early settlers were christians, and the overwhelming christian heritage of this country is indisputable. Yes, not all the FF's were christians but some were, and every level of american society was influenced by it throughout most of its history. "One nation under God" being added BY OUR GOV'T in the 40's illustrates this pretty clearly.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:38 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Do you even know why those words were added? What circ umstances surrounded the addition of them? I doubt it.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Other One

      Your Government was doing a lot of things most people would be uncomfortable with now, wil.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:45 pm |
    • mama k

      Of course the founders grew up Christian, wil. no one disputes that. But different christians were fighting with one another terribly around the time of our founding. it was deadly in several states. that along with the heavy influence of Deism is why we have a strong separation of church and state, and secular government. so it's ok to say the founders were mostly Christian. It is not ok to say the U.S. was founded on Christianity or the Bible or the Christian faith. It just wasn't.

      James Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Mason, all had to witness religious persecution in their home state. They knew the only way to calm things down was to implement a secular government.

      November 20, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
    • mama k

      Also, in case anyone is interested, I recently found this web page which shows various SC rulings dealing with religion and education – often regarding the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment:

      http://candst.tripod.com/table1.htm

      I was surprised to see so many cases there. I think the "S" in the right-hand column shows where a case was decided favoring separation of church and state. Of course there were some landmark cases like the ones in 1962 and 1963.

      November 20, 2012 at 10:01 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.