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November 19th, 2012
04:19 PM ET
Rubio ignites debate with answer about creationismBy Dan Merica and Eric Marrapodi, CNN Washington (CNN) – Florida Sen. Marco Rubio attempted to walk the line between science and faith-based creationism in remarks that that have provoked the ire of liberal blogs, leaving the door open to creationism in responding to a recent question about the age of the Earth. When GQ’s Michal Hainey asked Rubio, in an interview released Monday, “How old do you think the Earth is,” the rising Republican star described the debate about the planet’s age as “one of the great mysteries.” “I'm not a scientist, man,” Rubio told the interviewer. “I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States.” “Whether the Earth was created in seven days, or seven actual eras,” Rubio continued, “I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries.” Most scientists agree that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe is 14.5 billion years old. Christian Young Earth Creationists, on the other hand, argue that the weeklong account of God creating the Earth and everything in it represents six 24-hour periods (plus one day of rest) and date the age of the Earth between 6,000 and 10,000 years. Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter Left-leaning blogs and sites like ThinkProgress and Huffington Post jumped on Rubio’s comments, with the Zack Beauchamp from ThingProgress writing, “To suggest we can’t know how old the Earth is, then, is to deny the validity of these scientific methods altogether — a maneuver familiar to Rubio, who also denies the reality of anthropogenic climate change.” Rubio is regarded as a possible Republican presidential candidate in 2016, though the senator says his visit last week to Iowa, home of the first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses, had “nothing to do with 2016.” His response to GQ’s age of the Earth query has also provoked questions about his political aspirations. Dave Weigel of Slate writes, “How can you read that and not think ‘Iowa’? ” The state is the first to hold a presidential caucus in 2016. Forty-six percent of Americans believe that God created humans in their present form at one point within the past 10,000 years, according to a survey released by Gallup in June. That number has remained unchanged for the past 30 years, since 1982, when Gallup first asked the question on creationism versus evolution. CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories The second most common view is that humans evolved with God's guidance - a view held by 32% of respondents. The view that humans evolved with no guidance from God was held by 15% of respondents. The Gallup poll has not specifically asked about views on the age of the Earth. Rubio attends a Baptist church in southern Florida but also considers himself “a practicing Catholic.” He was born Catholic, but his family converted to Mormonism when Rubio was 8 years old, according to Rubio’s recent memoir. The family left its LDS faith behind when it moved from Nevada back to Florida and Rubio was confirmed in the Catholic Church. Catholic teaching is that science and faith are not at odds with one another and it is possible to believe what scientists say about the Earth’s age and in God. But many evangelical churches, including Baptist ones, promote a version of creationism. When CNN reached out to Rubio’s Baptist church in Florida on Monday, a person answering the phone would not comment on its teachings about the Earth’s age and said that a church representative was unlikely to be available in the near term. During the GQ interview, Rubio argued that “there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all.” For the past 30 years, the “equal-time argument” –- the idea that Creationism taught alongside evolution -– has been popular method for Creationists to advance their cause. In the late 1980s, some state legislatures passed bills that promoted the idea of a balanced treatment of both ideas in the classroom. In 1987, the issue made it all the way to the Supreme Court, where a Louisiana "equal-time law" was struck down. The court ruled that teaching creationism in public school classrooms was a violation of the Establishment Cause in the Constitution, which is commonly referred to as the separation of church and state. |
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How long did it take for someone to finally look inwards upon this physical body of ours by taking on a scientific journey toward finally understanding our body-like buildings of Godly intentions? If it weren't for the daringly curious lots, there would be no such things as our modern day scientific understandings. The will to dream dreamt dreaming is what we dividedly do least and only in the sparsity of dreamt dreaming issues did we come of Age in the enlightenments of science and its ongoing understandings of spiritually to be so dreamt dreams of daytime believers daring to dream the dreams of one's lifetimes!
Falsely labelling reiligious beliefs as s u p e r s t i t o u s dogma does neither parties any good! Should one call a cat a dog? Should one say a cow has six legs? One who dares to belittle things does no goodness upon that which is being belittled or even the 'belittler'. I do know such 'belittlements' will ever continue onwards if life here is to be spared a gruesome ending. All people are emotionally held islands of spiritedness and their souls do ever live on regardless those who hold firmly against such ideologies of religious intentions
I'll bet when you play "Balderdash," you always win.
Falsely labelling? A wee bit presumptuous perhaps? Lol.
We're not trying to belittle you. We're trying to introduce reasoning to you. Don't take it so personally. It's for the betterment of all mankind that you should be able to distinguish fantasy from reality.
He starts it all with saying "I'm not a scientist, man." Automatically every ounce of credibility he had speaking on the subject is gone. If you dont realize that youre an idiot.
Rubio's response to the question on the age of the earth amounted to his confession of not being an expert on geology. All the elaboration you read in the above article and the TV broadcast amount to thin air fabrication by the two lying communists Dan Merica and Eric Marrapodi.
"communists", really?
You don't have to be an expect to understand the science, that is a cop out.
OK, simple test. The nearest star is about 4 light years away, which means it took the light from that star about four years to get here. If the Universe was created about 6000 years ago, we should not be able to see objects more than 6000 light years away. If things were more distant, the light would not have been able to reach us yet. As our galaxy is about 100,000 light years across, we would not be able to see most of our own galaxy.
There are 200+ billion galaxies in the observable universe, and astronomers routinely study galaxies billions of light years away. This means that the universe must be billions of years old, otherwise the light from those galaxies would not have reached us. If the creationist argument can't handle something as fundamental as the speed of light, how can anyone believe it?
God created the light. He saw it and it was good. Good enough to fool just about everyone.
What you're saying in a nutshell is a creation event didn't occur. Given what is accepted as known at this point, your viewpoint is incredibly arrogant. In Genesis, God said let there be light. Science says the same thing. The big bang was the grandaddy of all light. Period. I can tell you garnered your scientific education from the likes of Nova. Space and time exist as relative functions. They're totally elastic. I afraid you may not have a working grasp on "in seven days"; "in the beginning" much less 6.5 billion years. Had God laid out the secrets of the infinite forms of the universe in modern English, how much chance do you figure you'd have understanding it?
The standard creationist explanation is that God created the light from those very distant galaxies already en route so that it only appears as though they would have to be that old. God is quite the little prankster, apparently. That and hiding fossils that, for all the world, test as millions of years old, as well as a mountain of other evidence, if he's responsible for faking all of it then he is seriously twisted and not at all interested in "the truth."
caroper
Genesis has God separating light from darkness during the first "day", and then he goes on to create the sun and stars during the next day. How can a "day" exist without a sun? Easy, considering that the ancient Hebrews, like other peoples, believed that the stars, sun, and moon were set like clockwork up in a solid "firmament" not too much higher than the tallest mountains. Heaven was very close for them.
How many of you are under the impression that they are born again ?
Reincarnation works for me!
Paul S.
To be "born again" is for us celestial conflagrations to die and then be reborn back into the Kingdom Domains or heavens of God which do lay upon our embodied building husbanded by the sons of God. Christians tend to "feel" a need to be soulfully or spiritually reborn via an emotionalized ambiguation leveraged upon a falseness in one's character analysis.
@ the old, retired goat that needs to stop trolling these boards: Being born again is also known as reincarnation. It makes more sense to have an eternal soul that lives life after life, to learn new experiences than it does to have one life, die and then float around singing praises to a god that can't be bothered to even visit for 2000 years.
How would one know? And why would it matter?
Your falsification of namesake does tend to belittle but no matter J.C. you are not!
If you could only understand that our bodies are mere buildings inhabited by God and all His brethrens and family members you would then be one step closer to rightly understanding! God does will us to labour together with him and not be belittled by nor thru His will for us for being below Him in measurings of intellectual cunning. What happens here upon earth is also happening in the heavens which are inside our bodies. How long will it take others to be familiarized with my words that are mere fruitions from dreams ever being dreamt? Who then shall dare to likewise dream of dreamt dreaming in ways of Godliness ideals?
Goofy, Oddly Deaf: How long will it take? How long have you been posting your nonsense words and "does do this or that" stuff? Nobody understands it. It's not understandable because it makes no sense.
Paul
Jesus could have simply meant that his return would be so distant in the future that his audience basically would have to be reincarnated, or born again some time in the future in order to see him again. Another in the long list of things that Jesus said, but that Christians haven't gotten right, I suppose?
Imitation is as we are all supposed to be to the light and also to those who see the light in us.
I hope that you can see that the only thing that has an opinion is a lie, the truth does not have an opinion.
Why do christians babble incoherently all the time?
Your lack of understanding is most certainly that that has been said, I will close up their ears so that they will not understand, and in the end you will be on the left hand of God , a goat.
Oh wow paul, you know your comments only prove how insane you are. Have you taken your meds today?
The truth does not have to be asserted, the truth does not require faith.
Paul Stufflebeam
Deciding what is "the Truth", however, is an opinion. There is nothing standalone that is "the Truth" by itself, and that includes anything you think is according to your opinion.
It's true, I am a homeless man. God has done NOTHING for me, but at least I can go to the Public Library and get online so that I can troll all of these opinion posts to spread my crazy schizo agenda for Jesus!
You dear lost soul are a blackened facsimile and I am a "true blue" one and only! You can try to steal my name and make small talk but we all know you to be but a falseness!
There probably is not room enough on this site to list all of the things that your Father has done for you that you remaine ignorant of. Not saying you are ignorant just of those things that you are not aware of.
Paul S.,
Which of the two lionlylambs are you inferring towards? The "black one" or the "true blue one"?
How would Gallup determine if a response actually represents a belief? Perhaps, at any given time, most people don't hold a view on the origin of the Universe or humanity, or even on the existence and nature of God. Not that they can't whip up such views when asked, they just think about such things so seldom and it's all so unimportant to daily life that they have no deeply felt beliefs about any of it.
"How old is the earth?"
"Dunno, maybe a million years."
"Did God make the earth?"
"He sure did!"
"What's God like?"
"He's, like, God – you know?"
"Why do you believe in God?"
"I know there's a Higher Power. One day I was waiting for the Metro and I almost fell in front of the train. Something pulled me back. I mean I almost died right then and there."
"God pulled you back?"
"No, this guy from Ivory Coast did. But God put him in the right place at the right time – you know?"
Tom, Tom, the Other One,
We live therefore we are. In living do we determine things to be or not to be. Science does lay the boundaries of witholdings not withstanding the erring of theories ever to be outdone by the next dream to be dreamt by dreamers of thoughts.
@ lionlygoat...get a job!
Jesus Christ
Sorry but I no longer do work for I am too old to be a worker and am not mentally alert to raise a hammer anymore let alone jobs are very damn hard to find nowadays! Besides, It's freakin Saturday and part of a 4-day weekend!
I don't care whether he actually believes it or not. We need to send a message to our leaders that supersti.tious dogma is not going to be tolerated as a basis for making decisions in the real world. It you want to believe "god started everything" that is fine but to deny science and scientific findings because it does not jive with mythology is rediculous.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers,
Falsely labelling reiligious beliefs as s u p e r s t i t o u s dogma does neither parties any good! Should one call a cat a dog? Should one say a cow has six legs? One who dares to belittle things does no goodness upon that which is being belittled or the 'belittler'. I do know such belittlements will ever continue if life here is to be spared a gruesome ending. All people are emtionally held islands of spiritedness and their souls to ever live on regardless those who hold against such ideologies of religious intentions.
Gods Oldest Delusion,
I will not respond to your posts, one cannot have a rational discussion with a person that makes up their own words.
H0m0 saps are tri-part.. "1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.".
Those that demand experience as proof will get it..."Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, [that] in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off [and] die; but the third shall be left therein." When you die your spirit is all that's left. This fulfills this prophecy on one level, tailored just for you, err everybody.
Four Biblical Quotes to Keep on one's Mind
Mathew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God!"
Luke 17:21, "The kingdom of God is inside you!"
John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world!"
1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"
If one does make a valiant attempt to "literally believe" the above four verses of KJVB scripture you might then slowly begin to understand the Truth in God's Word!
The sun is the center of the universe. The earth is 10,000 years old, it's flat, is the only planet of billions to host life, and humans have NO affect on the climate. When we screw things up badly enough on our magical planet, a mystical being is going to descend from "Heaven" and save those that believe in Him and let everyone else perish.
An author like Broadwell! How many copies have ya sold?
gonna find out who's naughty or nice, I have tons of coal from xmas' past, but perishing in everlasting torment, I will take a pass on. LOL
I think you summed it up pretty well E.
But along the way, the people who believe in that are going to try to force their stone age myth on the rest of us and make our lives as miserable as possible.
ericmpaul,
Let me guess, "Your quote stems from an age of darkness and unpleasant desperations?" How long did it take for someone to finally look inwards upon this physical body of ours taking on a scientific journey toward finally understanding our body-like buildings of Godly intentions? If it weren't for the curious lots, there would be no such things as modern day scientific understandings. The will to dream dreamt dreaming is what we do least and only in the sparsity of dreamt dreaming issues did we come of Age in the enlightenments of science and its understandings.
eric, you didn't know that God is green?? "Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." It's not a good idea to put the Beasties in charge of 'saving the earth'. It's a futile usurpation and you know who they'll make pay for it. The wrong people!
Is it not written that, "A thousand years God time is like but only a single day earth time."? Count the total number of known days up that we are aware of and multiply them by a thousand and one will have an answer in Godly years which may be equivalent to science's understanding our age of the Cosmos. It's not rocket science to do simplistic multiplication or is it?
I guess that earth time still remaines as a single day and it takes God 1000 years to equal 1 day earth time ?
Wouldnt that be devision instead of multiply ?
So it is written, so shal it be, I thought that quote was attributed to Tarus Bulba a fictional character, or wasn't it part of the Theogony where time was not relevant at all to the gods. Could you be more specific which god you refer to in your god time staement.
Paul S.,
Yes, a thousand years God time is but a day's passing of earth based time. God does live inside our celestial being inside a domain of such smallness and increase of speed that mankind does hardly ever consider such a phenom of understanding.
Not only is it written that a thousand years God time is euivalent to one day earthly time but also is written that a day God time is equal to a thousand years earth time. This dichotomy or the breaking in two does equate to God being the overall of a celestialness is in reality quite young and the Kingdom domains of God being of the inner cosmos of atomic emulations is very very old.
lionllylamb
The problem with your, so it is written type statements, made by christian apologists is that you can not name the author of the statement or proof that the statement is valid. Faith is all you have, belief in something that cannot be proved.
Since you are dealing in magic, then you can just keep waiting for science to put forth proven facts and then you can use your babble to make up whatever fits.
That has been your fundie's MO for centuries, why stop now?
Dionmithjesu,
Do not also the atheists have faith in much of sciences theories that many atheists can less understand yet do remain faithfilled by thoughtless amalgams in obscured relativities?
niknak,
I do not "deal in magic" for I deal upon questions regarding much of Jewish scriptures of the uncommon holdings that dares to leverage my understandings.
lionlylamb
But of course, whatever, duh!!!
Dionmithjesu,
Do you willingly want to ever remain in "duh duh land"? Sadly you cherish duh duh more than dare to dream dreamt dreams of ones days do willingly be a dreamer of things wanting to be so dreamt!
If I am not mistaken, There was recently a scientific conclusion that it was not possible for the human body to have just happened, that there had to have been an influence that is beyond their ability to explain.
With all the immediate crisies going on, the next time a leftist reporter asks a conservative politician a stupid question like how old is the earth, the politician just needs to answer, "older than you, dimwit, next question".
That would be a very good answer, but poloticians LOVE to hear themselves talk, so reporters give them a chance to dig their own graves.
Is it possible that evolution and creation are both true ?
It seems to me that there is scientific proof of an evolved human , also there seems to be scientific data that the earth is really old, lots older than 5000 years. Then there is the creation of man that has all of the necessary proofs to, Why is it that there has to be one or the other ? Why would God , in the beginning point out that there would be a diffrence between a " Good Seed " and a " Bad Seed " ?
To answer that question yourself, just ask yourself another question. Do you believe in ghosts, spo'oks, spectres, goblins, vampires, werewolves, fairies, sprites, nymphs, leprechauns, unicorns, and/or anything else in the realm of the supernatural?
When Lazarus walked out of the grave do the scientists say Jesus was on steroids?
I was'nt talking obout all that, just thinking that it is possible that there are two blood lines that are coexisting. All human beings, just that, not all that other stuff.
and you REALLY think that happened? The only place you'll find THAT story is in the big book of fables. Something that astounding, that amazing, and NO ONE thought to record it for posterity? Before you start, not a single word of the New Testament was written by anyone who was there. Every word they wrote was nothing but hearsay. The Lazarus stroy is a myth, just like the flood, the resurrection, the appearance 40 days later, the talking serpent, the burning bush.. even the Jews escaping Egypt. Not a single hieroglyph mentions a word about ANY Jews ever being held there, let alone escaping across a parted sea.
Paul S.
"Then there is the creation of man that has all of the neccesary proofs to (also)" Really, name the neccesary proofs; proof–evidence or arguement establishing or helping to establish a fact or truth of a statement. With that in mind, give it your best shot.
Blood lines, hhhhmmmm. "Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" ............."1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit."
If I am not mistaken, There was recently a scientific conclusion that it was not possible for the human body to have just happened, that there had to have been an influence that is beyond their ability to explain.
lol?? ... you're quoting that book? It isn't regarded as evidence by ANY means of the word "evidence". Please, try again, but this time, use something credible.
Yes, all that God has made is of one blood, but there is deffenitly a determination before a child passes into the realm of physical life and air that it's blood is determined. Whether they will be a goat or a sheep.
Paul S.
Just stating there may be a scientific study is not proof of anything. A scientific study must be peer reviewed and achieve a favourable concensus. It is possible to give scientists the result you want them to achieve and pay them to come with a path to the desired conclusion. Re: Smoking is not harmful or emissions do not cause acid rain, etc.
Sure. Sort of.
Creationism is a belief, a tenet of faith. It's true to you if you believe it. Period.
Evolution is a scientific theory (unlike creationism) which is why it's taught in science class for us all to know/weigh/study.
I thought Rubio was considered by Republicans to be a serious contender for 2016 until I read about this interview. He's only 41, and grew up in the era of science, so he cannot claim to be uninformed. This "early equivocating" reminds me of Romney in the primaries – say whatever you need to keep the base. This is a losing strategy.
The wise guys know the house always wins. Old Chicago dem machine politics. The Masters lose. That's what a demobocracy is all about.
Even the Pope gives a Red Mass for the commie public servants.
Any strategy is better than the path we're on now designed by the Socialist Democrat Party and our dear leader,Barack Obama. The certainty that America will be bancrupt in a couple years and his dream of all nations being equal in their misery will become a reality. So much for transformation.
Did you vote for Obama? Thanks a lot a**h01e.
@gep1955 "Any strategy is better than the path we're on now..."
Then your standards are way too low! If this Rubio guy really believes what he said then he is unqualified for any decision-making role and most certainly should have no say in any Science Policy. If he's pandering to the base of creationists and young-earth zealots then he is without honor or scruples and is (unfortunately) highly qualified for political office by today's standards.
What a loser.
Anyone who even eludes that the Earth is less than 15000 years old is either delusional or an idiot.
'ludes are bad? Better tell that to the gubmint.
@ Com Sense ... try a little common sense please... "elude" means to evade, to avoid ... to "allude" means to refer to. If you are going to keep using that screen name, at least TRY to act like your screen name, ok?
The Masters can't afford editors, so don't be to hard onthe dude with ludes.
too................another annoying correction?
Well, if he wants to SHARE them, that's another story!!
He knows how to garner votes from the uneducated, it seems. Unfortunately it seems like that's because he is uneducated himself. And what's this with "left-leaning ire"? How about the ire of those who can pass a proper biology class, not just liberals? Why must the Republican party be the stupid party, the anti-science party?
Here is what the article should have read-
Marco Rubio leaves the door open to more right wing pandering.
I see. You prefer closet activity behind closed doors. Their is some merit to that viewpoint. Keep the dead skeletons where they belong and not stinkin' up the place.
There................Isn't that correction annoying?
An external agent could be anything so it is as likely to be deific as it is to be some form of hyperintelligent squash. An external agent leads to an infinite number of possibilities, all of equal value.
That isn't necessarily true. One can argue that no hypothesis has any value without proof, but surely the hypothesis that we were created by intelligent live in another dimension holds more value than the hypothesis that we were created by an evil deity with a predilection for infanticide and his magic carpenter son.
@RL
An external agent is a philosophical debate. 'Oh, let's think about why cosmic bunnies would have created us' and so on. Plug in some far-fetched thing as the external agent and see where it takes you.
I think that a deity, if one existed, would be more likely to be just about anything imaginable, other than the vile, spoiled adolescent described in the Bible.
there is absolutely NOTHING in the standard model that points to an "external agent".
if by some stretch of the imagination all the work we're doing at the LHC, or anywhere else... points to an "external agent" – we'll let you know.
but don't hold your breath.
@enjay
Yes and it's where a lot of believers stumble. They want to believe in an 'everything' deity who is only good and loving. It can't be like that. If it's everything, then it's good/evil/loving/hateful/witty/dull/etc etc. The problem with an everything deity is that, ultimately, it is nothing, or everything is in equal parts and essentially nothing.
@anvil
I never said there was an external agent, my original post was intended as a response to another post, but I forgot to hit the reply button. I'm just saying that if you make an argument for an external agent, then you are leaving it open to anything being that agent.
Anvil
It doesn't hurt to muse and wonder at existence.
Right, Damocles, I do agree that whereas no one has proven either the existence or the non-existence of a deity, the contradictions in the biblical deity are numerous enough that we can safely rule out that particular entity.
Who knows? Humans would have such a hard time describing what would naturally be a being that would be impossible to describe. Contradictions are inevitable.
"if you make an argument for an external agent, then you are leaving it open to anything being that agent."
well – in that case – i'd opt for a magical bunny that poops rainbows.
seems reasonable.
@anvil
That's funny because I mentioned something about rainbow farting unicorns earlier.
If we made it a rainbow farting unicorn who massacres non-believers then maybe we could convert the Abrahamists.
@RL
Funny how a relgion has to be all about a certain group of people before they can get behind it.
@the AnViL '"if you make an argument for an external agent, then you are leaving it open to anything being that agent."
well – in that case – i'd opt for a magical bunny that poops rainbows.'
What! How dare you place your bunny above the Flying Spaghetti Monster [Bless his noodly appendages] – ypu will spend eternity in his vat of sauce!
pjt: out of fear of the threat of eternal damnation – i repent.
i hope to find forgiveness.
thank you for saving me. I'M SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!