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November 26th, 2012
04:30 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Monday, November 26

By Arielle Hawkins, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From the Blog:

CNN: As worshipers gather, Pakistani city endures second deadly blast in two days
For the second time in two days, a deadly blast shook a northwest Pakistani city as worshippers marked the sacred holiday of Ashura. The explosion occurred near a Shiite Muslim procession in Dera Ismail Khan. The bomb was planted inside a bicycle repair shop, killing five people and injuring more than 70 others, said Mian Iftikahr Hussain, the provincial information minister. The spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban, Ihsanullah Ihsan, said the group would continue "its mission" and attack Shiite Ashura processions across Pakistan.

CNN: Pope names six new cardinals with global flavor
Pope Benedict XVI appointed six new cardinals in a special ceremony at St. Peter's Basilica on Saturday, all of them from countries outside Europe. One of those elevated to the College of Cardinals was American Archbishop James M. Harvey, who currently serves as prefect of the papal household, according to Vatican Radio.

Tweet of the Day:

Belief on TV:

Enlightening Reads:

The Guardian: Jesus wept … oh, it's bad plumbing. Indian rationalist targets 'miracles'
When water started trickling down a statue of Jesus Christ at a Catholic church in Mumbai earlier this year, locals were quick to declare a miracle. Some began collecting the holy water and the Church of Our Lady of Velankanni began to promote it as a site of pilgrimage. So when Sanal Edamaruku arrived and established that this was not holy water so much as holey plumbing, the backlash was severe. The renowned rationalist was accused of blasphemy, charged with offenses that carry a three-year prison sentence and eventually, after receiving death threats, had to seek exile in Finland.

New York Times: A ‘Little Jerusalem’ in the Heart of Italy
My parents have an unofficial ritual: wherever they travel, whether it’s Paris, San Francisco or Havana, they visit the Jewish part of town. They go to temple, they seek out local Jews, they make a donation. It’s their way of feeling connected to their heritage, and also of showing solidarity. So when I was in Rome recently and heard about a tiny medieval village in Tuscany called Pitigliano (known as La Piccola Gerusalemme or Little Jerusalem) I wanted to see it.

Reuters: Saudi reforms detour through new Vienna interfaith dialogue centre
The road to reform in Saudi Arabia is long and winding. In the rigidly restricted field of religion, the path is so circuitous that part of it even runs through traditionally Catholic countries like Austria and Spain. Monday, a pioneering Saudi-backed centre for worldwide interfaith dialogue will open in a baroque palace on Vienna’s elegant Ringstrasse boulevard. Riyadh paid for the building and will foot the centre’s budget for the first three years.

New York Times: Anti-Semites Blamed for Rome Soccer Attack
A brutal attack in Rome on fans of the Tottenham Hotspurs soccer team, a London club with strong Jewish connections, has been blamed on anti-Semites. Ten fans were injured on Thursday, one seriously, when a gang of around 50 stormed a bar in the Italian capital, wielding baseball bats, knives and broken bottles before a Europa League match against Lazio, a Rome team. The assault was immediately linked to Lazio’s notoriously troublesome fans, the Ultras, although team officials denied its supporters were involved.

Quote of the Day:

Interfaith work seeks to humanize religious diversity and erode tribalistic divisions. It promotes religious literacy and freedom of expression and conscience, and if atheists don’t participate, we risk not being included in interfaith efforts’ vision for a pluralistic world. The term ‘interfaith’ may be imperfect, but in my experience it does not exclude atheists - and when it does, that’s something we should work to change.

Chris Stedman, assistant humanist chaplain at Harvard University and author of Faitheist: How an Atheist Found Common Ground with the Religious, in an interview with Religion News Service.

Opinion of the Day:

CNN: My Take: Searching for God, settling for sex
Shannon Ethridge, counselor, speaker, author, and certified life and relationship coach, and advocate for spiritual and sexual integrity, explains why: “we have much to learn about God through understanding our sexuality, and there is much to learn about our sexuality through a deeper exploration of God.”

Join the conversation…

CNN: Pope's book on Jesus debunks Christmas myths
It's Christmas, but not as you know it: a new book by released this week by Pope Benedict VI looks at the early life of Jesus – and debunks several myths about how the Nativity really unfolded. In "Jesus of Nazareth – The Infancy Narratives," the pope says the Christian calendar is actually based on a blunder by a 6th century monk, who Benedict says was several years off in his calculation of Jesus' birth date.

- A. Hawkins

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (205 Responses)
  1. Chick-a-dee

    Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, love is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

    Love never fails.

    1 CORINTHIANS
    Chapter 13

    November 27, 2012 at 6:07 am |
  2. niknak

    Where did all the fundies go?
    We souless and godless atheists are here all over your "belief" blog, hating on your magic man myth, and you fundies are nowhere to be seen trying to defend it.
    Come on, fight back!
    We have taken all this time to mock you, at least put up some kind of defence.
    Some obscure quote from the babble, or some thinly veiled threat of the fiery pit. Something.
    I can't believe that we have beaten you down that much.

    November 26, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
    • Joseph

      I look and i see unbelievers on this blog 24 hours a day. You all are so relentless, but yet so unmoving. I would be embarrassed if I were you. Have you ever seen a dog chase and fight at his own shadow? Yeah, it's kinda like that. Humorous.

      November 27, 2012 at 8:22 am |
    • Leo

      Niknak, Thanks so much for your caring words that verify the accuracy of the scriptures with you fulfilling prophecy of the last days.

      2 Peter 3

      3 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles.

      The Coming Day of the Lord

      3 Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

      8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

      November 27, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
  3. Bill

    "So people are told by these children that something will happen at a certain time, and they all wait and watch the sun and have an experience. "

    No. In a prior apparation, Mary told the kids when she would appear. After word spread out that Mary appeared to these kids on prior occasions, the pilgrims followed.

    I don't know if they were staring at the sun for an extended period of time but they could have been. It also seems that However, they only looked to the sun when they were instructed to by one of the kids and it is noted that this phenomenon was viewed miles away by people who would not have been instructed this.

    I'm not trying to convert you and I highly doubt that I will convince you this is anything from a higher power but to get back to the original point, but unknown phenomenons like this is one of the reasons I believe in a higher power.

    November 26, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      I know you're not trying to convert me, and I'm not trying to convert you. I'm actually genuinely interested in the reasons people believe things. I just kind of took my cue from your comment that there may be natural explanations.
      As far as who saw it, from what I could find, it was between 30 – 100,000 people who were in or near Fatima specifically because of what the children said. I have found no accounts of those who did not hear of the children witnessing anything at all.

      Mainly I'm trying to understand how this could be any kind of evidence for you (and I understand it's not the only thing you accept as evidence) of your specific god or miracles or anything like that, when there are more plausible, naturalistic explanations.

      November 26, 2012 at 7:11 pm |
    • Akira

      Those kids were 7, 9, and 10 at the time, and subject to torture.
      They also self-flagellated when instructed by the apparition.
      This is a fascinating case.

      November 26, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
    • niknak

      So Billybob, if all that it takes for you to believe is for something to be unexplained, what happens when the converse happens?
      Like when a phenomenon gets explained later?
      Do you then not believe anymore?
      At one point, solar eclipses were unexplained. As well as lightening, static electricity, the sun, moon, fire etc.
      They were all explained as NOT being a higher power.
      When this gets explained will be fall out of favor with your belief, or just look for the next unexplained thing?
      I vote for the latter.

      November 26, 2012 at 9:05 pm |
    • Answer

      If you religious people want to really convert everyone then just do the following:

      1) build an airplane without;
      - a) any moving parts (no engine, no electronics, no mechanicals..etc)
      - b) cover the entire interior of plane with only seats

      2) make that airplane fly with your god juice/magic or prayer.

      3) Done.

      –Til then you're all losers with your bs.

      November 26, 2012 at 9:13 pm |
    • Bill

      I suppose it could have a natural phenomenon but some of the explanations that I read, such as a dancing sundog would be quite the coincidence to occur right when the children said they were going to experience their apparition. In regard to the over exposure of the sun causing these effects, I suppose that could be an explanation but it would explain how people miles away viewed the same thing. One individual said they could stare at the sun w/o any pain.

      November 27, 2012 at 10:05 am |
    • Bill

      Niknak,
      I’m not totally sure if I believe this one myself. If this was fully explained to the fullest then I would no longer believe there was any chance this could have been something supernatural.

      Answer,
      I said I wasn’t trying to convert anyone.

      November 27, 2012 at 10:08 am |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Like I said above though, as far as I could find, there isn't any account of people who had not heard of the children and the prediction experiencing anything. Details are easy to fill in from other people. Once this 10 minute experience finished, do you not think that people closest to Fatima went out to tell people what it was they saw, and from there it's all confirmatory bias and given memories to those at the furthest edge?
      When it comes to the guy who said he could look at the sun with no pain, that would happen to some people after staring at the sun for a long enoug period, maybe even as little as a minute or two, but that doesn't mean that he didn't suffer any effects from it.

      November 27, 2012 at 1:13 pm |
    • Chick-a-dee

      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyIpE1_qIFM&w=640&h=390]

      Video includes photographs from Oct. 13, 1917 @ Fatima, Portugal as well as newspaper clippings covering the event.

      November 27, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      The core of what you are basing your faith in these clearly disturbed children, is as sumption. You have to wonder if mental illness ran in their family. Or they were seriously abused.

      November 27, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • Chick-a-dee

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_of_the_Sun

      November 27, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • Chick-a-dee

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_F%C3%A1tima

      November 27, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • Chick-a-dee

      THE TRUE STORY OF FATIMA
      Father John de Marchi, I.M.C,

      http://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/tsfatima.htm

      Previous two posts are from secular sources on the same phenomenon.

      November 27, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Professor Auguste Meessen of the Inst itute of Physics, Catholic University of Leuven, has stated sun miracles cannot be taken at face value and that the reported observations were optical effects caused by prolonged staring at the sun. Meessen contends that retinal after-images produced after brief periods of sun gazing are a likely cause of the observed dancing effects. Similarly Meessen states that the color changes witnessed were most likely caused by the bleaching of photosensitive retinal cells.[24] Meessen observes that Sun Miracles have been witnessed in many places where religiously charged pilgrims have been encouraged to stare at the sun. He cites the apparitions at Heroldsbach, Germany (1949) as an example, where similar observations as at Fatima were witnessed by more than 10,000 people.[24] Meessen also cites a British Journal of Ophthalmology article that discusses some modern examples of Sun Miracles.[25] While Meessen suggests possible psychological or neurological explanations for the apparitions he notes, "It is impossible to provide any direct evidence for or against the supernatural origin of apparitions".[24] He also notes that "[t]here may be some exceptions, but in general, the seers are honestly experiencing what they report."
      .
      keep hallucinating

      November 27, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      So it was raining and then the sun came out...and they saw colors etc.....good thing these "pilgrims" aka christards have not seen the Northern Lights...they would really flip out and say they saw God...lol

      November 27, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • Bill

      Hawaiiguest,
      .
      I was able to find a number of accounts online. They’re all from religious publications. The following is from someone 11 miles away:

      " All I can remember is that this fireball came down upon the Earth and I knew I was about to be burned alive. And I ran, and I ran, and I ran. All I can remember is my fear. I often woke up at night, running. Running from the fire. We thought it was the end of the world. The fire of the sun was on top of us."

      The individual that said viewing the sun was not painful also claimed it was pale in appearance, which gave me the impression that it might not have been difficult to look at in the first place.

      November 27, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      I would tend not to trust a religious publication for any kind of accurate reporting on a supposed miracle. I highly doubt that this man 11 miles away truly experienced something, or if he did he most likely embellished what he saw. For the man that said that the sun didn't hurt his eyes, the sun may have been pale, I don't know, but that doesn't change the effects of prolonged exposure from looking directly at it.

      November 27, 2012 at 4:38 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Bill

      Hawaiiguest,
      .
      I was able to find a number of accounts online. They’re all from religious publications.
      .
      And again BILL think about what you are really saying and putting your trust in lol

      November 27, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
    • Bill

      I said it was a religious publication and I'm sure the individual who wrote the book is a religious but to my knowledge it wasn't backed by any religion. The writer spoke to a number of individuals who claimed to have been witnesses and one of which was the one who gave the quote I provided above.

      Here is another quote from the newspaper at the time of the event:
      And next they ask each other if they have seen or not seen. Most confess that they have seen the dancing of the sun; others, however, declare they have seen the smiling face of the Virgin herself. They swear that the sun spun about itself like a ring of fireworks, that it came down almost to the point of burning the Earth with its rays.

      November 28, 2012 at 7:35 am |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      I don't see why you're continuing to use newspaper quotes to try and corroborate this.

      November 28, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • Bill

      Why not?

      The first quote showed that someone miles away viewed the same thing.

      The second quote showed that people in the audience saw a Marion Apparition and there was never a logical explanation for this.

      To my knowledge the individuals who provided quotes, never profited on what they saw. They never traveled around and charged a speaking fee like former presidents do.

      November 28, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @BIll

      You ask why not. The reason is that because only one person is cited in those newspaper articles for each you gave. Then there's the fact that a newspaper doesn't really tell us anything about what or why it happened.
      Next, I would like to point out that the first quote is sorely lacking in any kind of detail, and could be loosely interpreted to fit a single part of the supposed event as described by people closer to the throng.
      The second quote has some problems with it. The first being that it is just another claim, which, while different, is not disimilar to the majority view. Could this be chalked up to an embellishment? Possibly, and not unheard of, and still fitting within the what we know of human behavior.
      I don;t know whether we're going to get any further into this thing, because we see it quite differently. Within human psychology and behavior, this is not out of the realm of that, and can be explained with that quite easily. If that same event happened now, there would be ways to actually set up an experiment to see whether they all experienced the same thing, and monitoring to determine if prolonged direct eye exposure to the sun could have anything to do with it. There would be multiple tests to determine veracity at the time, but none are available, and I find the accounts not reliable or convincing at all. You do, and I think that's all we're going to be able to agree on in this subject.

      November 28, 2012 at 6:20 pm |
    • Bill L

      Those weren't the only quotes available. Others went into more decription:

      "On that day of October 13, 1917, without remembering the predictions of the children, I was enchanted by a remarkable spectacle in the sky of a kind I had never seen before. I way it from this veranda."

      November 29, 2012 at 11:19 pm |
    • Bill L

      "The sky, pearly grey in colour, illuminated the vast arid landscape with a strange light. The sun had a transparent gauzy veil so that the eyes could easily be fixed upon it. The grey mother-of-pearl tone turned into a sheet of silver which broke up as the clouds were torn apart and the silver sun, enveloped in the same gauzy grey light, was seen to whirl and turn in the circle of broken clouds. A cry went up from every mouth and people fell on their knees on the muddy ground....

      The light turned a beautiful blue, as if it had come through the stained-glass windows of a cathedral, and spread itself over the people who knelt with outstretched hands. The blue faded slowly, and then the light seemed to pass through yellow glass. Yellow stains fell against white handkerchiefs, against the dark skirts of the women. They were repeated on the trees, on the stones and on the serra. People wept and prayed with uncovered heads, in the presence of a miracle they had awaited. The seconds seemed like hours, so vivid were they."

      November 29, 2012 at 11:35 pm |
    • Bill L

      "I was only nine years old at this time, and I went to the local village school. At about midday we were surprised by the shouts and cries of some men and women who were passing in the street in front of the school. The teacher, a good, pious woman, though nervous and impressionable, was the first to run into the road, with the children after her.

      Outside, the people were shouting and weeping and pointing to the sun, ignoring the agitated questions of the schoolmistress. It was the great Miracle, which one could see quite distinctly from the top of the hill where my village was situated-the Miracle of the sun, accompanied by all its extraordinary phenomena.

      I feel incapable of describing what I saw and felt. I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt the eyes. Looking like a ball of snow revolving on itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zigzag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment.

      Near us was an unbeliever who had spent the morning mocking at the simpletons who had gone off to Fátima just to see an ordinary girl. He now seemed to be paralyzed, his eyes fixed on the sun. Afterwards he trembled from head to foot and lifting up his arms fell on his knees in the mud, crying out to our Lady.

      Meanwhile the people continued to cry out and to weep, asking God to pardon their sins. We all ran to the two chapels in the village, which were soon filled to overflowing. During those long moments of the solar prodigy, objects around us turned all the colors of the rainbow. We saw ourselves blue, yellow, red, etc. All these strange phenomena increased the fears of the people. After about ten minutes the sun, now dull and pallid, returned to its place. When the people realized that the danger was over, there was an explosion of joy, and everyone joined in thanksgiving and praise to our Lady."

      November 29, 2012 at 11:44 pm |
    • Bill L

      I have been trying to post more, ones that go into more detail, but the system will not allow me to for some reason.

      November 29, 2012 at 11:49 pm |
  4. lionlylamb

    Not behind me nor in front of us, nor along side me in either direction and certainly not below nor above us queries ones thoughts regarding the kingdom domains and their families of all the Gods. Inside me and inside you and inside all forms of each and every consortium formations of celestial based Life is where the God's gods and goddesses all do dare live and take residents upon. Small though the Gods really are! Powerful yet still are their ways! We are their building and they are our husbandries! We each do ever labour togetherly with our body's Godliness families who were there and with us before our being celestially yet physically conceived and even at ones birth and even till ones death and eventual returning back to the Godly kingdom domains of our bodies! 1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"

    Therefore, do not look upon others for Godly endurances sakes but dare to dream the dreamt dreams of a dreamer who sees Gods and Goddesses in their glorious wonders! Love all of mankinds' patented wonderings recognizing the glories in Godliness ideals! The personalized dreamers do gather in their dreamt of day dreaming ways and they do share their dreamt dreams without blinking their eyes! Eaze up upon the weaker in mind's eyeing, plundering not your envisioned moments for eyeingly spying! Give to the Gods all their justified deeds which ever they dare do in keeping all celestialized generations alive and still mobile in earthly times' roots. We who are celestially laced were born of and upon and even within the terrestrially traced! Made from the very dust of the stars all were and are and ever will be to ever be done!

    Where is celestial based Life without there being cellularized constrainment issues to contend with? Who really can peer within the confining measures into the atomized divisioning placements of inward superiorities recognitions? What lays celestially attributed without there being a formalized guide from which the Outer Realms Cosmos to witt levies its cosmological being as an allowable emulation of traced servile continuums? Who dares control the outwardness and inwardness issues within the overallness of declarations symphonic emulations duly declared cosmological c o n s t i t u e n c i e s regulatory affirmations?

    Beyond any of my doubts does there lay inside all celestial Life formations the kingdom domains of God's sons and daughters and their generationally endowed and the dead of our beings who did pass back toward becoming reborn back into the inward realms of sub-cosmological orders within and beyond many genders who cannot duly fathom the infinite measurings of Godly intentions hardly ever rationalized by humanities cunningly folded and introverted awarenesses.

    We "humans" were made perfected in the finite sublimations of candor, or unstained purity leavened by mediocre bastionings from societal minglings throughout our ages till its present days age. We are completed and made whole by that which made our bodies from the innerness sakes of one's being! We do live therefore we are and in deaths coming do we transcend back into our energy's solemn first made originalities.

    November 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I just finished reading your entire post. Fantastic as always. You keep working Mr. Lamb, that Pulitzer can't be far away now.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Akira

      Slowly I turn, step by step, inch by inch.
      The End.

      November 26, 2012 at 4:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      NO!! Not "the end." "NIAGARA FALLS!"

      November 26, 2012 at 9:16 pm |
    • niknak

      @Cowardly Lion

      Too long, too boring......

      November 26, 2012 at 9:31 pm |
  5. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things
    Proven

    November 26, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi Prayerbot.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Huebert

      Just keep repeating that, maybe one day you will actually believe it.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Thoth

      Prayer did not provide vaccines to prevent plauges – science did. Prayer does not prevent the untimely deaths of children, nor reduce the infant mortality rate – science did. Prayer did not produce the computer you use to spread nonsense – science did.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • truth be told

      Prayer propelled and accelerated the knowledge to science and as science fails in medicine prayer is already there for the next level of discovery.

      November 26, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      November 26, 2012 at 5:24 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "truth be told", but your assertions regarding prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      November 26, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "John 3:16" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" is the degenerate.

      This troll is not a christian.

      November 27, 2012 at 10:22 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs.

      November 27, 2012 at 10:31 am |
  6. lionlylamb

    "Simplisticisms" or the acts of being simple minded fools is that which I run away from! May the juggernauts of attorneys wordly usage ever be the pitfalls of "imbeciliac" minded doofuses who can barely add to the intellectually ordained "compositrons", those litterally ordained lots who steal things from others because these others cannot even fathom the audasciously construed words that the common lawyers do yeild! Go lawyers go and do finagle whatever you can from the poultry lots of hen-picked rooster cluckers!

    November 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Akira

      You mad, bro?

      November 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • Thoth

      A pseudo-intellect with a Thesaurus; yet still can't write coherent material.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • hippypoet

      you are an idiot...a hugely conceited idiot – and that is the sad part. i mean its one thing if you at least intelligent and THEN conceited....but to be stupid while also being conceited is...well, pathetic. drop the thesaurus and pick up a science book.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Hi Mr. Lamb, you crazy old fuck. You are still full of shit. Carry on.

      Many suffer from Word Inequality. Please seek help.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Akira

      Word inequality can be cured with a thesaurus.
      However-and this is important-one must know the definition of the original word to be able to find a comparable one.
      In that case, a dictionary is useful.
      Also important: the original word must actually exist.

      Brain inequality is also a problem.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Thoth and hippy dippy droopy ears,

      I own no such thing called a thesaurus! I write what words come to mind you dip witted wanna bees! May the sons and daughters of God give you your just treats when they discover your inadequacies of qualitative dichotomies in the vernacularized witts, you blithering idiots of spermasoidal ambivalence!

      November 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i thank you for that lovely worded compliment. Again, it was your pleasure to judge me and mine to watch you, by your own beliefs, be doomed to hell. again, enjoy this life at least i guess. :)

      you are a true moron.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      I don't rightly knwo which side of the fence you stand. If you're just straddling you better watch out for the pointy board shoving up ones whazoo! Sorry folks, I meant butthole!

      November 26, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Hippy Dippy Do Da Rah Rah Rah!

      November 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Akira

      Ah. That explains a LOT.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • Thoth

      @Lion – when one translates your "writings" they are quite easily seen for the heap of incoherent jibberish that they are. My 4yr old writes more intelligible than you.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Akira

      Lionly,
      Which one of my posts is confusing to you?
      Fences bore me. Try again.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
  7. Apple Bush

    Heaven is a place in Hell.
    A place where Angels and Demons dwell.
    The bell rings, the Devil Swings and on God’s throne he begins to dwell.
    Looking through space and time the duality of the immortals shine.
    The singing begins and the song is one of the infinite.
    Universes are sung, galaxies too.
    Star and planet, me and you.
    But we can hear the singing not.
    For we are here on this planet caught.
    The web we weave to cry and deceive.
    Robs us of our own immortal lot.

    November 26, 2012 at 2:00 pm |
    • hippypoet

      very nice!!

      heres mine – Humanity's Progeny
      Unknown to any but her,
      the pain of the mother.
      The death of her son by Cain the brother.
      Now mourning his brother,
      who was like no other.
      His parents are speechless and then God takes over.
      He tells Cain after allowing him to remove the life,
      that he now must walk the earth.
      So Cain knowing fear fashions himself a knife.
      Leaving his family behind,
      he walks now unknowing of what he may find.
      His mother left there in the garden,
      now more of a prison for her mind.
      She questions Gods allowance of Cain,
      that which brought her so much pain.
      Adam tries but can not,
      so without answers she drives herself insane.
      the mother of mankind,
      has lost her mind.
      The father has always been,
      a creature of sin of his own philosophy,
      a power hungry creation.
      We are,
      if you choose to believe,
      the living progeny,
      of the original abomination.
      With the knowledge of truth the story becomes frayed.
      This must be considered before the choice is made.
      This is a mental death that which is insanity.
      Is this the wish you would make for all humanity?

      November 26, 2012 at 2:30 pm |
    • Akira

      Wow.
      Apple, is that original?
      Hippypoet, I'm tapping the table right now.
      Well done.

      WASP: kids are fantastic! I'd kill for mine.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:37 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Akira, yes it is.

      HP, how you doing man? this is the Central Scrutinizer...again. Quit bogarting the Glen Fiddich and pass the dutchie!

      November 26, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Nice Poem my blood shot friend. snap snap!

      November 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Akira

      AB:
      Nice.
      Thre snaps in a Z formation.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • hippypoet

      CS – i'm good – thank you for the comment on the poem. i have been writing like crazy recently. Apple, you write your own stuff? i liked that one.. it was very good.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Yes sir HP, I (CS aka Apple) write my own for good or for bad. You know I have always been a fan of yours, but it is hard for to catch you on the blog nowadays. Glad you are writing! Really liked that one a lot.

      Still polishing down the GF?

      November 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • hippypoet

      money is an issue and so when i drink – when – its beer. and at times, its cheap beer. :(

      it is true i rarely blog now-a-days... kids are getting older and they and i play more...i have been using my free time contruct a false timeline built around columber, the king and queen of spain, and a fake pirate by a real pirate name and so like all the other names – it too will check out. then i make a fake map, hide clues, and i dig up treasure with my daughter.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:27 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Well sir, that is what makes for a happy life. For me, my oldest daughter is getting so independent now. She will be in college soon but me youngest stills like to party with Dad. I took her to Six Flags yesterday and we had a blast.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
  8. WASP

    WELL ON A LIGHTER NOTE IF THINGS KEEP GOING THIS DIRECTION ROMNEY MAY HANG HIMSELF. LMFAO.
    Christie says Romney still 'upset' after loss

    November 26, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
  9. lionlylamb

    People who ascribe that a single universe makes up all there is are fooling themselves! In factual matters I can quite figuratively deduce that the universe we find oursleves in is but one universe living together amid an immeasurable to us amounts of universes within a Cosmos so vast we will never know with sureness its overall size!

    November 26, 2012 at 12:06 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Mr. Lamb, good morning you crazy old fuck. I don't disagree that what you say is possible, but you don't know it. You cannot prove it. You are full of shit. Carry on.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      A.B. Doodler,

      Please refrain with your mundane usages of slang wordages here in a public emporium for there are children allowed here and they may pick up on such bitter diatribes!

      November 26, 2012 at 12:30 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Mr. Lamb, in my opionion, a "fuck" or "shit" used in the proper context is not in the least bit harmful to children. However, I would never let me children read your nonsense. Therefore I would ask you the same, please quit posting your lies in this public forum where children might read them. Thank you sir.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:45 pm |
    • My remembrance chamber pot

      Lionly,
      You are likely correct. The fact that we continue to find smaller and smaller levels of matter should lead one to think that it also works in the opposite direction. There are probably an infinite number of infinite universe clusters, of infinite clusters of whatever those might be called, (megaverses ?).

      November 26, 2012 at 1:10 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      A.B. in a stupor,

      At least I can sleep at night in never having to reason why I hardly ever did do what you dared do! You rather mundane and blatant wordages is the fruits that give Life a bad name

      November 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
    • Akira

      Kids in general are great bs detectors.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:21 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      My remembrance chamber pot,

      I thank you for being kind to my belief in there beng a "Cosmos" ever so filled with immeasurable amounts of singular cosmologies of what we name as being universes. "Multi-verses" seems to be a somewhat mundane ideology and that is why I use the term "Cosmos". The Cosmologies of universalism does somewhat declare there to be inner chasms of cosmology creviced in every nook-N-cranny along with outer or outward chasms of greater sized cosmologies of the basic samenesses regarding the inner chasms of cosmological orders.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:24 pm |
    • Billy Joe Armstrong

      Fuck you lionlylamb.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:25 pm |
    • WASP

      @akira: (LOUD CLAPPING) :)
      trust me i have two of them...................tried bsing them into eating things they didn't like; it didn't work. lmfao

      November 26, 2012 at 1:27 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Mr. Lamb, I am terribly sorry if I have offended your delicasy.

      "the fruits that give Life a bad name" HUH?

      Lamb, verbose champion of the world, you know as well as I do that saying "oh poo" and "shit" are the same thing. Sounds with meaning. What is your problem with words?

      November 26, 2012 at 1:28 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Akira,

      Children do sometimes learn not to follow in the footsteps of those who tend to crap all over their trails of illed despondencies fearing to step on another's 'bs' comments made to flasely label one's being as a bigger load upon the trails of learned ways.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:31 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Omm, lionlylamb, you said crap.Shame! Don't you know crap means shit?

      November 26, 2012 at 1:37 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      A.B. C's asked, "What is your problem with words?"

      I have no problems with rightly used words A.B. but "slang-word" usages tends to debase one's desires to seek better words to be used especially by those who are not yet an elder. Peeps have a tendency to mimic others wordages especially when they grasp its usage by an elder. Then when these peeps are with others of their own ages they may well tender an elder's words to belittle one another and then calamities are brought upon the ones who feel disgraced with adulterously slung words.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Mr. Lamb, thank you for putting that so succinctly.

      I think you suffer from Word Inequality.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      A.B.Cd,

      The words I tend to use are words such as 'crap' or dump or other terms for feces. Sorry but many of the words you use falls against my ingrained being where in past times I was told by adults not to use them even though the adults did. Yes I use slang words but to me they are a bit more delicate then words such as fvck and even b i t ch or even b a s t a r d. I guess I am elder fuddy duddy,,,, old aged and senile in my slang word usages!

      November 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I see Billy Joe chimed in here and that brings up a good point.

      Is it better to say, "Kill the DJ, kill the unpleasant and disliked DJ"

      Or

      "Kill the DJ, kill the fucking DJ" ?

      The words I choose to communicate with you are EXACTLY what I mean to say and the feelings I wish to project.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      So in conclusion Mr. Lamb, you are a crazy old fuck who is full of shit. Carry on.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:01 pm |
    • Akira

      Lionly, if one of my children saw your posts, their detector would be buzzing loudly.

      Further, my children are smart enough to not step in said bs.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:05 pm |
    • Akira

      MRCP: I believe the term is "multiverse".
      Short, sweet, easy-to-understand.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • K-switch

      Well L.L., I see you are still drawing a crowd that would rather discuss your style of grammar as opposed to any message you might be trying to convey, assuming you have a message to convey.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:31 pm |
  10. myweightinwords

    What do you believe to be true beyond a shadow of doubt?

    November 26, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • nope

      we all die

      November 26, 2012 at 11:20 am |
    • Huebert

      That I exist.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:22 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Good answers both. Thank you.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:33 am |
    • Apple Bush

      @Huebert, you can't prove that.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:34 am |
    • lionlylamb

      Beyond any of my doubts does there lay inside all celestial Life formations the kingdom domains of God's sons and daughters and their generationally endowed and the dead of our beings who did pass back toward becoming reborn back into the inward realms of sub-cosmological orders within and beyond many genders who cannot duly fathom the infinite measurings of Godly intentions hardly ever rationalized by humanities cunningly folded and introverted awarenesses.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • Huebert

      Apple

      Luckily I don't need to.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • myweightinwords

      @Apple...I didn't ask about what you could prove. I asked what you believe to be true.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Apple Bush

      @Huebert, this is true.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:40 am |
    • Apple Bush

      @myweightinwords, I believe that without a shadow of a doubt.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • Huebert

      Myweight

      Allow me to expand a bit. I believe that I exist, and that the universe exists. I believe that the universe is rational, and can be understood.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:48 am |
      • myweightinwords

        I likewise believe that I exist and the universe exists. I am fairly confident that you (for some value of you) exist.

        I also believe that the universe can be understood...though we do a poor job of it.

        November 26, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • Meatwad

      I believe in the Brood Witch. And tasty sandwiches.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:55 am |
    • Bar Fly

      I believe I'll have another.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:56 am |
    • WASP

      @lamb: "Beyond any of my doubts does there lay inside all celestial Life formations the kingdom domains of God's sons and daughters and their generationally endowed and the dead of our beings who did pass back toward becoming reborn back into the inward realms of sub-cosmological orders within and beyond many genders who cannot duly fathom the infinite measurings of Godly intentions hardly ever rationalized by humanities cunningly folded and introverted awarenesses."

      waaaaaaaaaaaaay over worded just to say you believe that when you die you will join the invisible fairy people in the sky.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • MLK Jr.

      I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:59 am |
      • myweightinwords

        Which takes me to a question I asked last week. What does unconditional love look like to you?

        November 26, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Huebert

      I include all others as part of the universe, and I agree with you as.sessment of our understanding. Though I would add that we are getting better.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • R. Kelly

      I believe I can fly.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:01 pm |
    • Audrey Hepburn

      I believe in pink.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:02 pm |
    • Ron White

      I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:03 pm |
    • John Lennon

      I believe in everything until it's disproved.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm |
    • Akira

      I believe I'll have another cup of coffee.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      WASP,

      I do not believe in your surmizing there to be a 'sky fairy'! I believe the kingdom domains of the godly to be inside our cosmologically made bodies not no damned sky fairies!

      November 26, 2012 at 12:11 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      I believe Akira believes she will have another cup of coffee.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • WASP

      @audrey: i deny your belief in pink because my book of red saids it is a blasphemy to speek of pink and it's right because it said so.
      lmfao

      November 26, 2012 at 1:11 pm |
    • JA

      I believe, that Jesus is the Christ. The Son of living God.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
      • myweightinwords

        @JA

        Without a single doubt?

        Even in the days of my most devoted belief in the Christian myth, there was always a moment of "what if?" that I prayed to overcome.

        Can you tell me what this means to you? Not to mankind, not to the world, not what it says in the bible...what does this mean to you?

        November 26, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Rodents for Romney

      Good for you. You do realize I hope that that ti'tle at his time just meant he was a "good guy".

      November 26, 2012 at 2:19 pm |
    • Akira

      Apple, can you prove your belief that I believe I will have another cup of coffee?

      November 26, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Akira, coffee cannot be proven beyond the existence of the cup itself. No sensation felt by the taste buds can be regarded as truly verifiable, and so its existence is not certain. Hence, nothing outside the kitchen of the coffee drinker can be rationally confirmed.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:25 pm |
    • Akira

      JA: Jesus just left Chicago, and he's bound for New Orleans. Hey, hey.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:28 pm |
    • Akira

      Apple, I don't believe you.

      November 26, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Many things are unknown, but nothing is unknowable.

      November 27, 2012 at 11:52 am |
  11. Bill

    Why do you all feel I am stupid or ignorant for believing in God? Just because I don’t have proof, doesn’t mean one does not exist.

    November 26, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Had a conversation with a lady who believed in fairies this past weekend. She said the same thing as you.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:14 am |
    • Bill

      But, wouldn’t there be evidence for them if they exist? This wouldn’t be the case for a higher power?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:18 am |
    • Huebert

      Bill

      I don't think that you are stupid or ignorant, I just think that your belief in God is foolish. Look at it this way, There is no evidence for Zeus so you don't believe in Zeus. There is no evidence for Santa Clause, so you don't believe in Santa Clause. There is no evidence for Odin so you don't believe in Odin. If there is no evidence for something than believing that it exists is not a rational choice.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:21 am |
    • Bill

      Didn’t you ever think there was a purpose to life? It seems like most things on earth has a purpose to it. Why is it irrational to think that humans have a purpose too?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:30 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      We define our purpose while we wait to die...good or bad.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • myweightinwords

      Bill,

      How does having a purpose in life equate to God existing?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:32 am |
    • Huebert

      Bill

      Why do you say that most things on earth have a purpose? What evidence do you have to support that?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:36 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If you only have a purpose in life because of a god, you lack imagination. I don't require the existence of a god to want to do good things for others, to give what I can to people who have less, to try to inspire those around me to strive for excellence, to love my family and friends, to enjoy art, music, nature, food, wine, etc.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:37 am |
    • Bill

      Myweightinwords, I’m referring to an afterlife.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:38 am |
    • Bill

      Tom,
      Of course not. If there is a God, I’m sure He wouldn’t want us to do good things just to make Him happy.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • WASP

      @bill: wanna know what my purpose in life is? my children.
      it's my job to protect them and guide them until they make it to the age they can protect themsleves, even if it costs me my life to accomplish it.
      yes without a second thought or need for a happy after-life i would die to protect my kids..................given being from the army i much prefer whomever harms my children leads the way. :)
      i require no greater purpose than that. to my children i am their world and they are mine, thusly i will not fail them by being a poor example of how to be a productive member of human society, i refuse to fail in showing them that regardless of what they do i will always love them and accept them whether they turn out to be straight or gay whether they become the greatest mind in history or a simple worker.

      i will not ever understand why so many people require this GRAND DIVINE idea of a god to have a purpose in life............
      if you need a hint about your purpose TO LIVE IS YOUR PURPOSE. it's that simple.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:44 am |
    • lionlylamb

      @ Bill et al,

      A person's purpose may well be rationalized upon one's individualistic dichotomies.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:58 am |
    • Bill

      That’s a great answer WASP, but is it unreasonable for someone to think that there is something beyond the time we die?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:59 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Afterlife??

      Which version? Many men have written about different ones since man first learned to write.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:00 pm |
    • Bill

      Don’t know which version. But I always believed there was one, which is why I believe in God.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:07 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Bill,

      Myweightinwords, I’m referring to an afterlife.

      That isn't what you said though. You said that all things have purpose in THIS life. They way you said it implied that you tied that purpose to the existence of God.

      I was questioning what one had to do with the other.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm |
    • Bill

      I'm sorry. That's what I meant to specify.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      If you dont know which version then how do you know it is a God or Gods? You are being dishonest with your answers or you are a vbery confused person.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
    • Bill

      I don’t. Nobody knows the answer to that. Again, just b/c I don’t know which version of the afterlife is correct doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:57 pm |
    • Huebert

      Bill

      Is it rational to believe in something which has no evidence for it?

      November 26, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Bill

      I don’t. Nobody knows the answer to that. Again, just b/c I don’t know which version of the afterlife is correct doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist.
      .
      So you are on the fence with every mythical and magical being ever written about by man. Based on this you do not sound like you are of sound mind and intelligence level of that found in tribal type people.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:03 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      @ Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT,

      Christianity is a formula for people of emotionalized dispargement brought on by societal leverages weighing upon a perosn's dichotomies within the daily affairs for living in as sound a life as is made afforded them.

      November 26, 2012 at 1:08 pm |
    • Bill

      I’m guessing that you all wouldn’t accept it as evidence but there have been apparitions and miracles that people have experienced. To answer your question, I feel that it wouldn’t be irrational for one to base a decision if there are no facts involved.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Without any kind of evidence for it, yes it is unreasonable to think a higher power exists, yes it is irrational, and the only reason one would believe those things is for self-gratification.
      Also, if personal experience made something valid, do you believe in alien abductions, bigfoot, loch ness monster, ghosts, mediums, astrology, and all kinds of other "metaphysical" things?

      November 26, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • Bill

      Let me specify and say that I don’t feel if it would be irrational for someone to make a decision when there are no facts present if nobody gets hurt. Obviously, the WMDs were a mistake but nobody gets hurt if I believe in a Higher Power.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Your beliefs do not live in a vaccuum, and beliefs inform actions, and your actions have consequences either good or bad. If you believe something without good reason, then you are also more likely to believe in more things without good reason. So you cannot say it does not harm anyone.

      November 26, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Bill

      We’ll have to disagree on whether facts are needed to derive an opinion when there are none present and never will be.

      In regards to the apparitions, there have been cases when many people have witnessed. Unlike in the instances you brought up where they were viewed by a small few.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      Only a small few? Please give an example of the things that I listed where only a "small few" gave accounts.
      Also, without facts, how can you possibly have a reason to believe something?

      November 26, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bill

      I know there have been negative consequences from one’s religion in the past but I really don’t see it in my case. What do you all think I could have done w/ my beliefs that made the world worse than if I weren’t born at all?

      November 26, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      I did not say that there necessarily has been harm to others in your life as a result of your religion, I'm just pointing out that you cannot say that there will be no harm for the reasons I gave above.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Bill

      On each particular account there have been a few people, to my knowledge, that viewed the loch ness monster or alien abductions. There might have been lots of people who viewed loch ness over time but not all at one instance, which is what I’m talking about. I’m guessing most of those people wouldn’t have thought they saw it if the first person didn’t take that photo. I was watching a program on the subject and the skeptics proclaimed that there could be trees in the lake could give the appearance of the creature. There hasn’t been case, again to my knowledge, of there being thousands viewing one particular instance of loch ness, which is my point.

      November 26, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      So to you, these stories require witnesses of more than just a few, even if these seperate accounts have very similar details. So what apparitions and miracles that have been verified to have happened that supposedly had more than a few "witnesses".

      November 26, 2012 at 3:49 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Miracles or perceptions of things happen in all religions and walks of life now and in the past. ..this is hardly a standard to measure by. People used to see eclipses and think they were seeing acts of gods. I hardly put much weight on primitive men and modern day superst itious minds. As long as the gods need man to write and speak on their behalf, it remains bs.

      November 26, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
    • Bill

      I would think the Fatima instance would be more credible than any alien abduction, big foot sighting, etc. as it was viewed by, I believe, 70000 people.

      November 26, 2012 at 4:23 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      A few things on Fatima

      1) What was supposedly witnessed.
      2) At what point in time.
      3) Why would more people make it true?

      Those are just to start, depending on the answers I may have more questions or points.

      November 26, 2012 at 4:37 pm |
    • Bill

      1. The tens of thousands of pilgrims viewed solar activity, which just coincided when the three children saw Jesus, Joseph, and Mary.

      2. Noon on October 13 1917.

      3. I would take the word of thousands who claimed they viewed something, than the word of just a few. Also, whenever those alien abuctions start off, they seem to go, "I was drving alone in a rural area..." They never seem to go, "I was sitting at a sell out game at Yankee stadium..." There could be a natural explanation for what they saw, its just quite a coincidence if it falls right when the kids predicted when they would see an apparation.

      November 26, 2012 at 5:44 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill
      So people are told by these children that something will happen at a certain time, and they all wait and watch the sun and have an experience. When you stare at something like the sun for even a short time, strange optical effects can happen, that's just common sense. You can't stare at the sun for any significant length of time and not expect your eyes to play tricks on you, not to mention that waiting for something to happen would imply confirmatory bias. All it would take for the story to match between the people is a single person saying what he/she is saying. This doesn't seem very convincing of any kind of event, more like what we would expect from people staring at the sun waiting for an event to happen.
      I would also like to point out that this event was not witnessed anywhere else, and it would seem either that that specific god is playing favorites, or there was a mass hallucination with matching details coming from those around them.

      November 26, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
    • Bill

      "So people are told by these children that something will happen at a certain time, and they all wait and watch the sun and have an experience. "

      No. In a prior apparation, Mary told the kids when she would appear. After word spread out that Mary appeared to these kids on prior occasions, the pilgrims followed.

      I don't know if they were staring at the sun for an extended period of time but they could have been. It also seems that However, they only looked to the sun when they were instructed to by one of the kids and it is noted that this phenomenon was viewed miles away by people who would not have been instructed this.

      I'm not trying to convert you and I highly doubt that I will convince you this is anything from a higher power but to get back to the original point, but unknown phenomenons like this is one of the reasons I believe in a higher power.

      November 26, 2012 at 7:07 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Bill

      I know you're not trying to convert me, and I'm not trying to convert you. I'm actually genuinely interested in the reasons people believe things. I just kind of took my cue from your comment that there may be natural explanations.
      As far as who saw it, from what I could find, it was between 30 – 100,000 people who were in or near Fatima specifically because of what the children said. I have found no accounts of those who did not hear of the children witnessing anything at all.

      Mainly I'm trying to understand how this could be any kind of evidence for you (and I understand it's not the only thing you accept as evidence) of your specific god or miracles or anything like that, when there are more plausible, naturalistic explanations.

      November 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Interesting...so did Mary look arabic/ethnic or was it more along the lines of the great artist's paintings? Do you own a piece of toast with the white jesus on it?

      November 27, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      "A leading conjecture is a mass hallucination possibly stimulated by the religious fervor of the crowds expectantly waiting for a predicted sign. Another conjecture is a possible visual artifact caused by looking at the sun for a prolonged period. As noted by Professor Auguste Meessen of the Inst itute of Physics, Catholic University of Leuven, looking directly at the Sun can cause phosphene visual artifacts and temporary partial blindness. He has proposed that the reported observations were optical effects caused by prolonged staring at the sun. Meessen contends that retinal after-images produced after brief periods of sun gazing are a likely cause of the observed dancing effects. Similarly Meessen states that the colour changes witnessed were most likely caused by the bleaching of photosensitive retinal cells.[15] Meessen observes that solar miracles have been witnessed in many places where religiously charged pilgrims have been encouraged to stare at the sun. He cites the apparitions at Heroldsbach, Germany (1949) as an example, where exactly the same optical effects as at Fatima were witnessed by more than 10,000 people"

      November 27, 2012 at 11:23 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      1. The tens of thousands of pilgrims viewed solar activity, which just coincided when the three children saw Jesus, Joseph, and Mary.
      .
      .
      Put aside your supersti tious biases and REALLY think about what you stated and what you concluded from it.

      November 27, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • Bill

      That doesn't explain why people claim to have saw this miles away who would not have been instructed to look at the sun. Nor does it explain why people saw Mary in the sky.

      November 29, 2012 at 6:55 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      Bill

      That doesn't explain why people claim to have saw this miles away who would not have been instructed to look at the sun. Nor does it explain why people saw Mary in the sky.
      .
      Interesting.....what did Mary look like?Did Mary look like the photo in the Jesus family photos? REALLY think about it. And note this is not the first time of an "event" like this with religious nuts not just limited to jesus freaks. History is scattered with "events" such as this.... some say it was their god...some say it was aliens...some say it was the water they were drinking. You cannot rationalize with a supersti tious nut...however I try with you Bill.

      November 29, 2012 at 10:43 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      (1) Hallucinations – the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear
      these friends.

      (2) Delusions – the patient believes that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

      (3) Denial/Inability to learn – though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behaviour, each time expecting different results.

      (4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality – the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

      (5) Paranoia – the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan".

      (6) Emotional abuse – ­ religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the
      psyche for life.

      (7) Violence – many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using violence.

      November 29, 2012 at 11:10 am |
    • Bill L

      Well, I can't say as I didn't see it with their eyes but how would they see any woman at all? This was never explained in any of the rational provided about the event.

      November 29, 2012 at 11:31 pm |
  12. Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

    I wish people well along with their sky wizards

    November 26, 2012 at 11:08 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      (1) Hallucinations – the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear
      these friends.

      (2) Delusions – the patient believes that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.

      (3) Denial/Inability to learn – though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behaviour, each time expecting different results.

      (4) Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality – the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.

      (5) Paranoia – the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan".

      (6) Emotional abuse – ­ religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the
      psyche for life.

      (7) Violence -many patients insist that others should share in their delusions, even to the extent of using violence.

      November 29, 2012 at 11:12 am |
    • Saraswati

      You seriously need to take a psych class. Just one. OK, maybe add abnormal psych. Not only are you way off on the definition of mental illness, but you don't seem to know what a hallucination is or what is meant by "inability to distinguish fantasy from reality". Furthermore, paranoia is a lot more precise than what you describe and is not exhibited by Christians at any higher than the normal rate. The fact that you think these things of Christians (of which I am not one) actually indicates a higher likelihood of paranoia on you own part.

      November 29, 2012 at 11:18 am |
  13. myweightinwords

    Good morning everyone!

    I hope all of you had a good weekend. I got to spend part of it with my family and part of it alone, which makes it just about perfect, in my opinion.

    How's Monday working for you?

    November 26, 2012 at 11:02 am |
    • Christianity is a form of mental illness- FACT

      A sky wizard is snuffing someone out as we speak

      November 26, 2012 at 11:13 am |
    • myweightinwords

      That sounds...unpleasant...

      November 26, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • lionlylamb

      And a goodness sakes morning to you "myweightinwords"!

      I did have a wonderfully wondrous 4 days and now I am back to being my normal self, ever to relate to others my humane perceptions of an individualistic oddity!

      November 26, 2012 at 11:16 am |
    • nope

      my humane perceptions of an individualistic oddity! = stupidity

      November 26, 2012 at 11:17 am |
    • lionlylamb

      nope,

      Why "nope" do you declare me to be "dope-ishly" enamored when I try ever so to be right with my wordage usages? Could it be that you 'nope' are but too small minded to be rationally consistent in your own usage of wordages meant for uncommon needs benefits? Do you 'nope' wnt to remain a dumbfounded individual of bitter sarcasms laments?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:46 am |
  14. lionlylamb

    Where is celestial based Life without there being cellularized constrainment issues to contend with? Who really can peer within the confining measures into the atomized divisioning placements of inward superiorities recognitions? What lays celestially attributed without there being a guide from which the Outer Realms Cosmos in which its being is as an allowable emulation of traced servile continuums?

    November 26, 2012 at 10:48 am |
  15. Koni

    And what ten laws would you require for a Government? And would the President of such government, be allowed to break his own laws and escape punishment?

    November 26, 2012 at 10:43 am |
  16. lionlylamb

    Not behind me nor in front of us, nor along side me in either direction and certainly not below nor above us queries ones thoughts regarding the kingdom domains and their families of all the Gods. Inside me and inside you and inside all forms of each and every consortium formations of celestial based Life is where the God's gods and goddesses all do dare live and take residents upon. Small though the Gods really are! Powerful yet still are their ways! We are their building and they are our husbandries! We each do ever labour togetherly with our body's Godliness families who were there and with us before our being conceived and even at ones birth and even till ones death and eventual returning back to the Godly kingdom domains of our bodies! 1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"

    Therefore, do not look upon others for Godly endurances sakes but dare to dream the dreamt dreams of a dreamer who sees Gods and Goddesses in their glorious wonders! Love all of mankinds' patented wonderings recognizing the glories in Godliness ideals! The personalized dreamers do gather in their dreamt of day dreaming ways and they do share their dreamt dreams without blinking their eyes! Eaze up upon the weaker in mind's eyeing, plundering not your envisioned moments for eyeingly spying! Give to the Gods all their justified deeds which ever they dare do in keeping all celestialized generations alive and still mobile in earthly times' roots. We who are celestially laced were born of and upon and even within the terrestrially traced! Made from the very dust of the stars all were and are and ever will be to ever be done and always made from the stars' dustiness measurings!

    November 26, 2012 at 10:02 am |
  17. hippypoet

    to think is to be evoled as to believe is to be resolved!

    appeared on no test ever!

    November 26, 2012 at 9:05 am |
  18. Prayer wastes time.

    Prayer is for stupid, lazy people. People with guts get off their butts and fix their own problems.

    November 26, 2012 at 7:17 am |
    • nope

      @pr...
      nope

      November 26, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • snopes confirms

      nope is false

      November 26, 2012 at 7:29 am |
  19. Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things

    Prayer changes things

    November 26, 2012 at 7:11 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Atheism is not healthy for children and other living things", but your assertions regarding atheism and prayer are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      November 26, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • TrollAlert

      "Ronald Regonzo" who degenerates to:
      "Salvatore" degenerates to:
      "Douglas" degenerates to:
      "truth be told" degenerates to:
      "Thinker23" degenerates to:
      "Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
      "another repentant sinner" degenerates to:
      "Dodney Rangerfield" degenerates to:
      "tina" degenerates to:
      "captain america" degenerates to:
      "Atheist Hunter" degenerates to:
      "Anybody know how to read? " degenerates to:
      "just sayin" degenerates to:
      "ImLook'nUp" degenerates to:
      "Kindness" degenerates to:
      "Chad" degenerates to
      "Bob" degenerates to
      "nope" degenerates to:
      "2357" degenerates to:
      "WOW" degenerates to:
      "fred" degenerates to:
      "!" degenerates to:
      "John 3:16" degenerates to:
      "pervert alert" is the degenerate.

      This troll is not a christian

      November 26, 2012 at 9:07 am |
    • Jesus

      Prayer does not; you are such a LIAR. You have NO proof it changes anything! A great example of prayer proven not to work is the Christians in jail because prayer didn't work and their children died. For example: Susan Grady, who relied on prayer to heal her son. Nine-year-old Aaron Grady died and Susan Grady was arrested.

      An article in the Journal of Pediatrics examined the deaths of 172 children from families who relied upon faith healing from 1975 to 1995. They concluded that four out of five ill children, who died under the care of faith healers or being left to prayer only, would most likely have survived if they had received medical care.

      The statistical studies from the nineteenth century and the three CCU studies on prayer are quite consistent with the fact that humanity is wasting a huge amount of time on a procedure that simply doesn’t work. Nonetheless, faith in prayer is so pervasive and deeply rooted, you can be sure believers will continue to devise future studies in a desperate effort to confirm their beliefs.

      November 26, 2012 at 10:45 am |
    • HeavenSense

      Hi Prayerbot.

      November 26, 2012 at 11:35 am |
  20. WASP

    Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money.
    -GEORGE CARLIN-

    November 26, 2012 at 7:04 am |
    • nope

      @george carlin
      nope

      November 26, 2012 at 7:12 am |
    • TheBigGoat

      Essential George Carlin
      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo&w=640&h=390]

      November 26, 2012 at 7:15 am |
    • snopes confirms

      nope is false

      November 26, 2012 at 7:16 am |
    • and as always

      snopes is wrong

      November 26, 2012 at 7:19 am |
    • snopes confirms

      and as always is false

      November 26, 2012 at 7:30 am |
    • lionlylamb

      Not behind me nor in front of us, nor along side me in either direction and certainly not below nor above us queries ones thoughts regarding the kingdom domains and their families of all the Gods. Inside me and inside you and inside all forms of each and every consortium formations of celestial based Life is where the God's gods and goddesses all do dare live and take residents upon. Small though the Gods really are! Powerful yet still are their ways! We are their building and they are our husbandries! We each do ever labour togetherly with our body's Godliness families who were there and with us before our being celestially yet physically conceived and even at ones birth and even till ones death and eventual returning back to the Godly kingdom domains of our bodies! 1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building!"

      Therefore, do not look upon others for Godly endurances sakes but dare to dream the dreamt dreams of a dreamer who sees Gods and Goddesses in their glorious wonders! Love all of mankinds' patented wonderings recognizing the glories in Godliness ideals! The personalized dreamers do gather in their dreamt of day dreaming ways and they do share their dreamt dreams without blinking their eyes! Eaze up upon the weaker in mind's eyeing, plundering not your envisioned moments for eyeingly spying! Give to the Gods all their justified deeds which ever they dare do in keeping all celestialized generations alive and still mobile in earthly times' roots. We who are celestially laced were born of and upon and even within the terrestrially traced! Made from the very dust of the stars all were and are and ever will be to ever be done!

      Where is celestial based Life without there being cellularized constrainment issues to contend with? Who really can peer within the confining measures into the atomized divisioning placements of inward superiorities recognitions? What lays celestially attributed without there being a formalized guide from which the Outer Realms Cosmos to witt levies its cosmological being as an allowable emulation of traced servile continuums? Who dares control the outwardness and inwardness issues within the overallness of declarations symphonic emulations duly declared cosmological c o n s t i t u e n c i e s regulatory affirmations?

      November 26, 2012 at 11:05 am |
    • WASP

      @lamb: darlin' if a "god" made humans it needs to go back to school.................................
      BECAUSE MAN DID IT DO A BANG UP JOB. XD ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      November 26, 2012 at 11:49 am |
    • lionlylamb

      WASP,

      We "humans" were made perfected in the finite sublimations of candor, or unstained purity leavened by mediocre bastionings from societal minglings throughout our ages till its present days age. We are completed and made whole by that which made our bodies from the innerness sakes of one's being! We do live therefore we are and in deaths coming do we transcend back into our energy's solemn first made originalities.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      ll, your posts make no sense. Why do you bother to write such drivel? What purpose does it serve when no one else can make heads or tails of it? If you have a message, then learn to convey it. Making up words like "bastionings" and "innerness" and then scrambling them together with a bunch of words that might mean something IF they were used correctly to form a mess like the above is a waste of time for the messenger and the reader of the message.

      November 26, 2012 at 12:59 pm |
    • WASP

      @LAMB: ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      now exactly how many times did your mother try to flush you down the toilet for that mess to come out of your mouth?

      November 26, 2012 at 1:06 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Oh de alures en mass! Mi amiga e amigo es moy noy bueno!

      November 26, 2012 at 2:11 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,

      In timely fasioning did the English vocabularies become today's said-ness ways. The Old English literates were verbotin to glaringly soothsayers uncompromisable declarations for ridiculing ideals. Truth be said, I am in love with the varying dichotomies of learned word usages and their diatribe vernaculars uncommonly used by meager commoners who dare only to be staunch advocates in case hardened stands of immovable quandaries via worded audasciousness!

      November 26, 2012 at 2:27 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.