By Dan Merica, CNN
Washington (CNN) - Timothy Kurek’s motivation to spend a year pretending to be gay can be boiled down to a simple conviction: it takes drastic change to alter deeply held religious beliefs.
The experiment began after a lesbian friend opened up to Kurek about being excommunicated by her family. All Kurek, an avowed evangelical Christian, could think about, he says, “was trying to convert her.”
He was quickly disgusted by his own feelings, more pious than humane.
In fact, Kurek was so disgusted by his response to his friend that he decided to do something drastic. Living in Nashville, Tennessee, he would pretend to be gay for a year. The experiment began on the first day of 2009; Kurek came out to his family, got a job as a barista at a gay café and enlisted the help of a friend to act as his boyfriend in public.
The experience – which stopped short of Kurek getting physically intimate with other men - is documented in Kurek’s recent book “The Cross in the Closet,” which has received international attention, landed him on ABC’s "The View" and elicited some biting criticism.
The book is the latest entry on a growing list of experiential tomes revolving around religion. They include Rachel Held Evans’ recent “A Year of Biblical Womanhood,” in which the author follows the Bible’s instructions on women’s behavior and Ed Dobson’s “The Year of Living Like Jesus,” which had the author “eat as Jesus ate. Pray as Jesus prayed. Observe the Sabbath as Jesus observed.”
For Kurek, his year as a gay man radically changed his view of faith and religion, while also teaching him “what it meant to be a second class citizen in this country.”
A yearlong lie
For years, Kurek says, the only life he had was “his church life.” Being an evangelical Christian was his identity.
He was home-schooled until seventh grade, almost all of his friends were from church and his social life was a nightly string of faith-based events, from church sports to a Christian Cub Scout troop. “It was the only thing I was used to doing,” said Kurek, who attended Liberty University, the largest evangelical university in the world, before dropping out after freshman year.
Kurek grew up in an “independent Baptist church.” “We were evangelical,” he said, “but we were more conservative than evangelical, too.”
His churchy lifestyle led to some deeply held views about homosexuality. Most evangelical churches condemn homosexuality as sinful. Many rail against certain gay rights, like gay marriage.
“I had been taught to be wary of gays,” Kurek writes of his beliefs pre-experiment. “They were all HIV positive, perverts and liberal pedophiles.”
Those views began to be challenged in 2004, when he first encountered Soulforce, a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender civil rights group, on Liberty’s campus. The group made the school an important stop on its cross-country tour targeting colleges that they alleged treated LGBT people unfairly.
Kurek was struck by what he had in common with the protesters at Liberty. “It really impressed me that people who were coming to push their agenda were able to do it and be so nice about it,” he said.
His doubt about Christianity’s condemnation of homosexuality, Kurek writes, was “perfected” in 2008, when a close friend recounted the story of coming out to her family and being disowned.
“I betrayed her, then,” writes Kurek. “It was a subtle betrayal, but a cruel one: I was silent.”
His recognition of that betrayal, he writes, led him to believe that “I needed to come out of the closet as a gay man.”
“I believe in total immersion,” Kurek says in an interview. “If you are going to walk in other people’s shoes, then you are going to need to walk in your shoes.”
To ensure the purity of his project, Kurek says, he had to lie to his deeply religious family about being gay, something that troubled him throughout the year.
“I felt like they loved me but they didn’t know how to deal with me,” he says. “They didn’t understand how to handle having a gay brother or sibling.”
In the book, Kurek recounts learning that his mother wrote in her journal that she would rather have been diagnosed with cancer than have a gay son. That experience and others left Kurek feeling outcast by people he loved, confused about his new life and conflicted about past religious beliefs.
Kurek was living a lie. And even though he was conflicted by his family’s reaction to his new lifestyle, he was longing to be honest with them.
It’s no surprise that the “The Cross in the Closet,” has spurred strong reaction, especially from the LGBT community.
“I feel for the gay community of Nashville, and for every person who trusted Kurek enough to flirt with him, hang out with him, and confide in him about their lives,” wrote Amy Lieberman on the blog Feministing. “If I were in that community, I would feel so betrayed right now.”
In a Huffington Post blog post titled “Pretending To Be Gay Isn’t The Answer,” Emily Timbol, a religion blogger, expressed a similar opinion: “What's sad is that every interaction Timothy had during his year pretending was fake.”
“He was welcomed under false pretenses, acting like someone who understood the struggle that his LGBT friends faced,” she wrote. “He did not.”
But Kurek says that that was not his aim. “This isn't a book about being gay, I could not write that book, I am not qualified,” he writes. “What this is about is the label of gay and how that label affected me personally.”
Throughout the book, Kurek emphasizes that distinction. While much of “The Cross in the Closet” is about the struggle to understand the gay community, which he tries to address by enlisting a friend to act as his boyfriend, much of it addresses how his former church’s community – and family – reacted to his new lifestyle.
“I am actually not friends or in contact at all with 99.99% of the people that I grew up with or the churches that I grew up with,” Kurek says.
Kurek says he isn’t opposed to interacting with people from his "former" life. When he has run into members of his old church, he said he generally has quick, cordial conversations and moves on.
But some of the new distance is by choice. When Kurek’s mother told a friend in her church that her son was gay, the person said Kurek’s sexuality could jeopardize his mother's standing in the church.
The evangelical community has remained fairly mum throughout much of the reaction; most responses have come from Christians who are in some way connected to the LGBT community.
Though Kurek goes to church less now, primarily because he has yet to find one that feels like “home,” he says he feels more religious “in the biblical definition of religion.” He still considers himself a Christian, although no longer evangelical, and says he is interested in attending the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America in the future.
Kurek quotes James 1:27 from the New Testament: “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”
There’s no mention of organized religion in passages like that, and Kurek says it’s the institutions of religion that worry him most today. He talks about his once robust church life as a distant memory.
Living as a gay man jaded him to religion, he says, though he has not surrendered all of his former beliefs. Yes, Kurek says, he is struggling with certain points of his theology, but he has been looking for the right church. “I am trying to figure out what place in the body of Christ I fit in,” he said.
As for his original goal, to radically change who he was, Kurek says mission accomplished. He says he has conquered his prejudices of the LGBT community and is happy with the person he has become.
“If anybody had told me back then who I would be or what I would believe now,” Kurek said, “I would have thought they were completely insane.”
For example, Kurek now thinks homosexuality is completely acceptable.
His family is happy to know that he is not gay, says Kurek. He has a new set of friends. And he lives in Portland, Oregon, where he moved shortly after finishing his experimental year.
The author plans to donate part of the proceeds from his book to help LGBT homeless youth who have been rejected by their families.
He is now at work on a book proposal for a follow-up to “The Cross in the Closet.” The book will be about the years after his experiment, transitioning back to honest living while continuing to engage the LGBT community.
“I want to tell more stories,” he says “and humanize the people who Christians always want to look at as labels.”
since i found jesus my ass anin't been sore no more HOLY!
Jesus loves me, yes I know
'Cause Willy's butt ain't sore no mo'!
That's why you have to kneel instead of sitting on your azz, we get it, but who are you giving the B J too?
“Scientists do not join hands every Sunday and sing "Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!" If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.”
_ Dan Barker, Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America's Leading Atheists
The single most important point in this entire article comes down to one paragraph written – "Kurek was living a lie. And even though he was conflicted by his family’s reaction to his new lifestyle, he was longing to be honest with them."
This is the feeling that EVERY gay person feels their entire life. If they feel it to be impossible to tell their family, it will stay hidden forever. And it will weigh down on them to the point where they get led into trouble. They want to be honest with everyone, but society makes it extremely hard. This straight man that went gay for a year and made it through without telling anyone felt the real struggle gay people go through every day of their lives. No matter how much flak he gets for it from both sides, he did a wonderful thing.
And I too have a book to sell to you!
There are many atheists on here who support gay rights, but are VERY mean to christians, because we feel they deserve it for the way they treat gays, or anyone else who doesn't "follow that bible" I'm one of them who does that, and I'm straight. We forget that most of us WERE RAISED IN SOME RELIGION and somehow broke away, were guided away, etc. There are many bible quoting christians on here that are on auto pilot as they defend their faith, but are secretly ashamed of their ignorance, and want a way out. We atheists NEED TO START REACHING OUT. We always walk away, because the faithful are annoying, (and in the past, before the internet, were VERY DANGEROUS and capable of murder in order to prove their belief in a god was correct, by sending you to meet "HIM " immediately. These faithful people are VICTIMS, just like we were, they just never got out.
“gay can’t change their orientation; they’re born that way.”
“The Bible doesn’t comment on the biology of gay, although it acknowledges that some traits are deeply ingrained. (2 Corinthians 10:4, 5) Even if some are oriented toward the same sx, the Bible tells Christians to shun gay acts.”
Suggestion: Rather than get ensnared in a debate about the cause of gay desires, emphasize that the Bible prohibits gay conduct. To make a comparison, you could say: “You know, many claim that violent behavior can have a genetic root and that as a result, some people are predisposed to it. (Proverbs 29:22) What if that was true? As you might know, the Bible condemns fits of anger. (Psalm 37:8; Ephesians 4:31) Is that standard unfair just because some may be inclined toward violence?”
Being gay isnt as simple as having an emotion my friend. Being angry isnt comparable to being gay. Its not just something you can switch on and off. You feel an attraction to women am I right? Is that a choice? Or is that something you were born with, something in your genes that cannot be changed?
The Bible says that anyone divorcing and remarrying commits adultery unless their previous spouse was already an adulterer.
But let's ignore that huge problem and deal with a much smaller problem of being gay. It's a lot more fun, right?
"As you might know, the Bible condemns fits of anger." So what? The same book – the Bible – condones and commands r-ape, murder, slavery, and genocide. And didn't your god supposedly wipe out all living things on the planet (including all of the morally blameless animals) save and except for those inside Noah's Ark? Talk about a fit of anger!
Well stated, Brampt.
" Even if some are oriented toward the same sx, the Bible tells Christians to shun gay acts.”"
The scriptures actually say nothing about homosexuality as a psychosexual orientation. Our understandings of sexual orientation are distinctly modern ones that were not present in the minds of Scripture writers. A few passages of Scripture (seven at the most) object to certain types of same-sex expressions or acts. The particular acts in question, however, are sexual expressions which are exploitative, oppressive, commercialized, or offensive to ancient purity rituals. There is no Scriptural guidance for same-sex relationships which are loving and mutually respecting. Guidelines for these relationships should come from the same general Scriptural norms that apply to heterosexual relationships.
What part of "the Bible isn't the law" do you morons not understand?
He's a bit of a flake. Just how do you act gay without being gay. Check Please.
There is HOPE People, God is that Hope. Seek him with all your heart and be transformed!
There is hope, hope you will get out of the abusive relationship of your religion.
This video is bull. Anyone who is Gay and hides it is because of the persecution they get from their fellow human beings. I didn't and nobody I know reached a point where they made a conscious decision to be either Gay or straight. YOU ARE BORN THAT WAY. The sooner these self-reighteous christians get off everybodies backs, the sooner the LGBT communities will be excepted as NORMAL. yes, NORMAL. Just alike; physically and mentally. And they choose a person to fall in love with. NORMAL!
Come on folks, these are real testimonies of people who lived a Gay lifestyle but chose to serve God and was freed from sin.
"There is HOPE People, God is that Hope. Seek him with all your heart and be transformed!"
"we must conclude that this is simply the sinful nature,"
All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.
The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.
On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"
Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.
The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.
Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).
There are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.
Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.
" these are real testimonies of people who lived a Gay lifestyle but chose to serve God and was freed from sin."
It's because of prejudice people like this that the experts in this country released this statement.
Heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of SocialWorkers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured."
Here is real testimony from a former preacher who spread the word of your abusive religion who is now FREE from abuse!
The bondages of living are the c l e a v a g e s of Life, therefore, living is the bondage's c l e a v a g e s. Clever c l e a v a g e s are men's bondages aren't they?
You can find "testimonies" on any dang, stupid thing that you can think of.
I'm certainly not going to spend any time looking up a bunch of them, but here's one:
Ex-gay leaders apologize for misleading the public:
Leviticus 25:44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Exodus 21:20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
Genesis 19:33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.
Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and r@pes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Genesis 19:8 Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”
1 Timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
Matthew 19: (Jesus Speaking) 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for $ ex ual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
1 Corinthians 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
Numbers 31: (Moses Speaking) 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now ki11 all the boys. And ki11 every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
2 Kings 6:27 The king replied, “If the LORD does not help you, where can I get help for you? From the threshing floor? From the winepress?” 28 Then he asked her, “What’s the matter?”
She answered, “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we’ll eat my son.’ 29 So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him,’ but she had hidden him.”
FORGIVE ME CHRISTIANS IF I'VE TAKEN SOMETHING OUT OF CONTEXT. PLEASE EXPLAIN THE CORRECT CONTEXT AND HOPEFULLY, IF THE HOLY SPIRIT GUIDES YOUR EXPLANATION, YOU WILL DRAW SOME SOULS TOWARDS CHRIST. (THIS SHOULD CLEAR OUT THE FORUM)
Here's the truth, no lifestyle will totally be accepted. There are some Christians who hate Gays, I don't. I do know the Word of God and he is a loving Father who wants what is best for us. He warned Atom and Eve, and they disobeyed. The bad things of this world is not of God, it's because of our disobedience to his Word.
"ATOM?" Are you friggin' kidding me?
How do people like you tie your own shoes?
"Here's the truth, no lifestyle will totally be accepted."
Biblical Interpretation and Theology also change from time to time. Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did!
Some "televangelists" carelessly proclaim that God destroyed the ancient cities of Sodom and Gomorrah because of "homosexuality." Although some theologians have equated the sin of Sodom with homosexuality, a careful look at Scripture corrects such ignorance. Announcing judgment on these cities in Genesis 18, God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham's nephew, Lot, persuades them to stay in his home. Genesis 19 records that "all the people from every quarter" surround Lot's house demanding the release of his visitors so "we might know them." The Hebrew word for "know" in this case, yadha, usually means "have thorough knowledge of." It could also express intent to examine the visitors' credentials, or on rare occasions the term implies sexual intercourse. If the latter was the author's intended meaning, it would have been a clear case of attempted gang rape. Several observations are important.
First, the judgment on these cities for their wickedness had been announced prior to the alleged homosexual incident. Second, all of Sodom's people participated in the assault on Lot's house; in no culture has more than a small minority of the population been homosexual. Third, Lot's offer to release his daughters suggests he knew his neighbors to have heterosexual interests. Fourth, if the issue was sexual, why did God spare Lot, who immediately commits incest with his daughters? Most importantly, why do all the other passages of Scripture referring to this account fail to raise the issue of homosexuality?
Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.
This raises the question: Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? The book of Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.
The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.
What is "Natural"?
Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.
I Corinthians 6:9
Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts. In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations.
The first word – malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.
The second word, Arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy (1:10), but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain. Scripture Study Conclusion…No Law Against Love
The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . against such there is no law. One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14: "...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".
@ Tom Tom: Velcro. No laces allowed.
And LOT"S wife did turn into SALT HOLY!
Gay ism, hind loving and boy abuse is holy tradition of Zoroaster ism, religion of hindu filthy KING JAMES, author of hinduism, absurdity called BIBLE.
And Lot's cousin was turned into a vat of vinegar. And Lot's father was turned into thinly sliced and deep fried potatoes. And they were joined together. And it was good. And crunchy. Thus sayeth the Lord.
@willy, Lotts wife turned to Salt because she looked back after God SAVED her and her family. If God saves you from a former life you better not look back.
Please just ask yourself how ridiculous it sounds that you believe people were "turned into a salt and vinegar". Who gave you psychos access to the internet? Good Lord.
I'm gay and I'm ashamed of my fellow gay brothers and sisters who are trashing Timothy for "pretending" to be gay for a year. Personally, I am honored and humbled, and actually inspired to know that someone cared enough about the experience of being gay in an evangelical setting that he would want to walk in those shoes. I have friends who have walked in the very (gay evangelical) shoes he's trying to shed some light on and I am more than happy to have Timothy want to understand our community enough to actually become a part of it for a while. I am ashamed of my fellow LGBT's for kicking the guy who wants to help us shed some light on important issues.
So, Kurek is like one of those people in the 60's who'd darken their skin to pass for Black inorder to study the Black lifestyle from inside, yes?
There is no God. Simple as that.
That really can't be proven one way or another.
The evidence makes you highly likely to be right.
Yes, there is truth absolute, constant, no one can exist without and truth absolute is GOD, only a hindu ignorant with a hindu darkened mind can deny truth absolute GOD.
@hindu gay ism – Hindus are some of the most anti gay people on the planet. Where are you coming up with this level of craziness???
Reformed hindus, but gay ism, hind love ism is fundamental of hindu Zoroester ism, father of hinduism, racism.
Wow, finally, some one who has DIVINE evidence to prove there is no God....oh wait, I missed the evidence, where is it?
Where's your evidence there is one, Truth be mold?
Hey, Truth – you ran away from the other thread without answering a page or two back. Why is it that believers simply run away? Is it finally sinking in that your fables are full of holes?
"God's Word". The best argument against Christianity that I know of.
Patrick, you make great folly of misrepresenting God's word. The entire passage goes like this:
25 And there was a great famine in Samaria: and, behold, they besieged it, until an ass's head was sold for fourscore pieces of silver, and the fourth part of a cab of dove's dung for five pieces of silver.
26 And as the king of Israel was passing by upon the wall, there cried a woman unto him, saying, Help, my lord, O king.
27 And he said, If the LORD do not help thee, whence shall I help thee? out of the barnfloor, or out of the winepress?
28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.
29 So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.
30 And it came to pass, when the king heard the words of the woman, that he rent his clothes; and he passed by upon the wall, and the people looked, and, behold, he had sackcloth within upon his flesh.
Don't fall prey to the influence of Satan. Satan accuses man before God day and night, using the scriptures to do so by cherry picking verses like you have done. I can tell you lack understanding just in the way you mix old and new testament scriptures. The old testament was the ancient way, before the age of Grace. Please Patrick, if you truely seek knowlege, seek it thoroghly and understand fully before you scoff. You are placing yourself at great risk in eternity. I pray that the Holy Spirit will whisper to your soul and convict you to seek God before it's too late.
* crickets *
Now ask them to quote passages trashing gays.
No one believes every word of the Bible. They just pick and choose what they like.
That's why Christian h0mophobes ignore the Golden Rule to find passages to trash gays. It's all hypocrisy
They won't reply. I shown a lot of the same, (with some of the same quotes ) Google "religion as addiction" It's like trying to talk reason with junkies or drunks who are really really delusional and fvked up.
The bible was written by men, not a god. the bible is the longeest piece of propoganda in history that attempts to control man. It is a tall tell, so therefor none of the versus you post are credible or mean anything other than somone, likely the writers, had a vivid imagination. I do not believe any of it to be tru and Its all garbage. Religion is basically a glorified book club....kinda like what Oprah had.
Only a person who takes the word of God out of context and reads it with a carnal mind will NEVER gain the SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE that many of us have.....sorry, but the WORD OF GOD isn't given to the SWINES.
"Swines"? You're such an ignoramus, Tubby. "Swine" is plural. Do you say "deers," too, you simple-minded twit?
TRUTH BE TOLD,
"WORD OF GOD isn't given to the SWINES."
Nah, only to toads, like you, I guess.
"We... thought... you... was... a... toad!"
@Udontgetthepoint – And how does that change the meaning of the verse or any of the others for that matter?
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
So? Who gives a ripe sh!t what the OT says about anything?
"22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Guess you don't know your bible. Christians don't follow Leviticus anymore, it's part of the Holiness Code, a ritual manual for Israel's priests..
He should check out Imago Dei. It's a great church in Portland that I think he would find has a lot of similarly minded, but bible believing people. I can't say I agree with his decision to lie to people for a year, and that's certainly not an advisable way to deepen your relationship with your creator, but I'm sure he did learn a lot through this experience. I hope he can get his faith back without losing that new understanding.
I am a Christian who doesn't belong to any Christian group or attend church. When I did have a church, I was told that I had to have a personal relationship with God, but was also told that I wouldn't be a complete Christian unless I "hung out" with other Christians. So what's it going to be. I have a personal relationship. That's all I need. I slowly began to realize that Christianity can be no more than a cult. Evangelical Christianity is a self-righteous cult whose members feel above others.
Dearest Christianity is a cult,
Any grouping of more than one can be a "Cult" but "Cultures" are of many randomized "Cults" all butchered together in hopes of rationalism coming to be found out by those most worthy of treading upon the others found decrepit and deemed cynical! Where then from which cult of cultured rationalism are you treading upon and why?
It sounds like you are getting there (to reality). Now, examine that "personal relationship" and find out if there is really anyone else there (other than yourself) in that "relationship."
i don't know about you guys but i define a cult as any group who worships a human or a demigod as a god a cult
Jesus was a human
Christianity is a cult
and even if he is the sun of you go
that make him a demigod
your in a cult
And this is why Gays feel that they have been cheated out of the dysfunctional fun.
I believe God is amorphic, that all of man’s endeavors to describe what God is severely deficient guess work. I believe God is self-revealing in all the creation around us, communicating using metaphor as example of how things are. I believe not one facet of humanity adequately describes God’s context, purpose, or plan.
I believe man and its many cultures however have spent a great deal of time trying to find ways to claim advantage over another by trying to prove it has God’s advantage. More than that; it is a means for people to attempt to control the one moment in life they have no control over, death, so they put their faith in words of men who claim to have transcribed the inspired words of God. I have more faith than that, I have faith I’ll leave this world as humbly as I entered it and what should unfold afterwards is as it should be.
Religion is referred to as a faith for a reason; you must have faith the very ancient text you are reading is Gods transcribed word in the absence of irrefutable proof. People who claim science attempts to replace God are foolish in my opinion, science carefully studies Gods’ creations. I can’t think of a better way to pay homage to our creator than devoting one’s life to understanding a facet of our creation.
It's only your imagination. You imagined all those things.
I believe in God,
You do know don't you what God did say, in Mathew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God!"
Are you obliging to so do or are you still seeking?
God is truth absolute constant, every thing stems from and exists by grace of constant, proven by science, Visit limitisthetruth.com to learn more about hinduism, illegality of hindu Jew's, criminal secular s to create hinduism, corruption of truth called religions.
@lionlylamb, God did not say that, Mathew did in the book of Mathew, and that may not even be correct as we don't know who all the authors of the bible are yet and it's heavily contested.
lionylamb.. nonsense begats nonsense
massive respect for someone with the courage to put his pride aside to understand the other side of the coin. doing that is so incredibly hard. it's no wonder there is always social turmoil. we all want to be happy. i don't believe the meaning of life is to cause others unhappiness.
Truth does not ask to be believed, it asks to be tested. Scientists do not join hands every Saturday or Sunday and sing…”Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have Faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down! Amen!” If they did we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.
Blessed are the Cheesemakers
You said it yourself, Truth should be tested. Test God, and see if his Word holds up. A lot of people who leave religion did not truly give their lives to God. Once you do that, you will see the truth. I recommend everyone here put God to the test, do what he say and see if his word stand.
Telling someone who was a believer and is no longer that "they were not doing it right" is just being patronizing... not to mention completely arrogant. If I don't believe in your "real" god it is his fault. He is the one that failed to get his message across. Belief is not a choice. We are presented with information and then conclude it is either true, false or undecided. The idea we have "free will" to declare something as true, that we really don't believe, is absurd. If there is blame for my unbelief it rests with your god.
Sure, put "God" to the test... but when 'he' fails, it is our fault for not being sincere enough, right?
Test God and see if his word holds up. Okay. Let's try Leviticus: Bats are NOT birds. Insects do NOT go about on all fours. Hares do NOT chew their cud. Hmm – your God sure doesn't seem to know much about the creatures of the world he supposedly created. If some of your god's word is clearly incorrect, then how do you know that it's not all wrong?
1word.. god get tested every time a starving child dies..how many devote christians starve in Africa each year, or die of some horrible disease. you will only test god if your life is not at risk.. If your life is in immediate danger hope that a human being is there to help. can you give us some examples of god intervention and successes when tested?
Holy Holy Turn from your ways of suckin d and lickin a
But I love going down on my wife and I looooveeee it when she gives me a B J. There's no way I am giving that up!
I HAVE turned, AWAY from the ignorance and the bible quoting christians who hate women, children, but love gays. HERE"S YOUR BIBLE QUOTES FOR GAY MEN IF YOU DOUBT ME. I'm much TOO SMART, and much TOO STRAIGHT TO BE AN IGNORANT XSTIAN Should Christian men kiss each other?
Yes. –Why do we not see men kissing in church, then? "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." (I Thessalonians 5:26. See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)
But I love going down on Patrick's wife and I looooveeee it when she gives me a B J. There's no way I am giving that up!
uh oh – did I I say that with my brain or my mouth?
A holy kiss, yes, But a holy schmonking up the gazoo?
I don't think that's what they had in mind.
2nd Timothy Chapter 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I'm not sure where this was intended to go, but I also recommend LSD for believers. That would probably save us a great deal of time trying to wake the sleepers.
That was the fatal flaw in Tim Leary's trip. He crashed around America selling "consciousness expansion" without ever giving a thought to the grim meat-hook realities that were lying in wait for all the people who took him seriously... All those pathetically eager acid freaks who thought they could buy Peace and Understanding for three bucks a hit. But their loss and failure is ours too. What Leary took down with him was the central illusion of a whole life-style that he helped create... a generation of permanent cripples, failed seekers, who never understood the essential old-mystic fallacy of the Acid Culture: the desperate assumption that somebody... or at least some force – is tending the light at the end of the tunnel.
LSD, the effects of which does alter one's rationalism and relativities of longevities for witnessing and making said the generalist umbrages forsaking one's dichotomies that nevertheless does betray the willingness desires. "Whatever!"
I'm not suggesting there aren't dangers to using LSD and I would never say that one could find enlightenment by using it. However, those dangers are pretty self-evident during a trip, or will be revealed through repeated use. Compared to religion, it's a much faster and easier truth to recognize. As a former user, that's just my perspective.
The only true, reliable Spiritual Experience that can be replicated 'On Demand' is effectuated though the use of natural worship-plant Entheogens, of which LSD is a derivative. Cannabis, Psilocybe Mushrooms, Peyote, and teas such as Ayahausca provide the real, genuine conduits that allow Man to experience God directly in profound and intimate ways which no mere book of tales can even approach. Anyone who has never had the experience of psychedelic entheogens is merely imagining the Divine, based on the rantings of others. To know The Infinite, you must go there, yourself. As you leave the mundane reality box of 4-D spacetime we all grew up in, you peek beyond the veil, into the quantum cosmos, and apprehend the true nature of who and what we are, and our connection to that divine Infinite. Everything else in religion is nothing but pale supposition, the gospel/dogma repeated through the ages, and altered to suit the social control needs of the power elite along the way, with every new generation.
I've done those of course and a host of other "god-experiencing" drugs. Hallucinogens are a religion too. Ultimately they are a distraction from the simple Truth. Re: Ram Das. That being said, I know they can be an important part of the spiritual path. Ultimately, one must find himself beyond the use of the drug. I'd still prefer to be living in a world of hallucinogen users to a world full of christians, jews and muslims...
"Or a loving father and his daughter???" – It's illegal right now.
"or a woman that shares a deep relationship with a 10year old boy?" – It's illegal right now and is considered rape.
"prost.itution is "the victimless crime"." – It's illegal right now.
"who does it hurt if I want to drop LSD??" – Go ahead it might help your stupidity.
Keep showing you can't stick to the subject but instead try to use deflective tatics because you have no facts about the subject of gays and lesbians.
Bummer it posted in the wrong place.
Yup... I just did the same thing...
I'm not sure where this was intended to go, but I also recommend LSD for believers. That would probably save us a great deal of time trying to wake the sleepers.
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.