By Tom Foreman and Eric Marrapodi, CNN
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Charlotte, North Carolina (CNN)—Joe Gibbs moves through pit row at Dover International Speedway with purpose. On this clear day he has three NASCAR teams competing under the banner of Joe Gibbs Racing. The NFL coach and Hall of Fame legend barks encouragement as his teams gather in their fire suits in front of racks of tools.
“We’re due one today! Let’s go!”
Then the team members put their hands together at the center of a circle, Gibbs slaps his on top with the sun catching his Super Bowl ring, and bows his head in a sudden moment of calm before the high-octane storm. “Father thank you for this day,” he begins to pray.
The white hair under his logo covered ball cap is an oddity here. The pits of NASCAR are a young man’s world. Top speed, quick reflexes and raw power are prized.
The drivers are the captains of the cars, but speed and precision of their pit crews – leaping over walls, changing tires and filling gas tanks – is often the difference between winning and loosing.
So what is the 72-year-old Gibbs, well past retirement age, doing amid the chaos and thundering noise?
The same thing Gibbs has always done: He's calling the shots.
“To me, life is so exciting. To me, life is always trying to beat someone in something competitive. It's kinda been my whole life," Gibbs explains while sitting in the sprawling Joe Gibbs Racing Complex in Charlotte, North Carolina, after a recent race.
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He sips on a large green tea, nursing a sore throat he claims is from allergies but is more likely from all the hollering over the racing weekend. Dressed in a polo shirt tucked into khakis, he is fit and trim, likely in better shape than most men half his age. He says he’s as excited now about all he is doing as he was when he was young.
"I really think I am,” he says with a wide, convincing grin.
The rise of Joe Gibbs
Gibbs' rise to sports superstardom began in the 1980s, when he took the struggling Washington Redskins, a team with few stars and even fewer playoff hopes, to not one but three Super Bowl championships, earning the respect of the league and the adoration of fans.
As the cold February rain poured down on fans who came out for the team parade after the 1983 Super Bowl, Gibbs praised their dedication with the enthusiasm that has long made them love him. "There's no other fans in the world who would come out in weather like this except in Washington, D.C.!"
A young mustachioed CNN sports reporter, Keith Olbermann, reported a half-million fans braved the weather for a glimpse of the team, Gibbs and the gleaming Lombardi trophy that day.
“Each one of you has a small piece of this trophy today,” Gibbs yelled into the microphone, pumping the Super Bowl prize for the roaring crowd.
Less than a decade later, he stunned those same fans by turning from football to auto racing, setting up shop in his native North Carolina with admittedly little knowledge of what he was getting into. "I was kind of a novice,” Gibbs said while touring the floor of the JGR workshop. “I was scared to death, you know, 'Can we do this?' "
But Gibbs applied his formula: He worked around the clock, hired great people and relentlessly pushed for perfection. Soon enough the championships started rolling in for his racing teams, too.
Gibbs addresses the media after returning to coach the Redskins
In 2004, Redskins owner Dan Snyder lured Gibbs out of the pits and back to the sidelines. He coached the 'Skins for a four-year stint, helping them get back to the playoffs. But by 2008, Gibbs was ready to go back to racing and he walked away from football for good.
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As an owner, Gibbs' teams have won three NASCAR Cup Series Championships. He talks a lot now about being a small business owner. His racing enterprise employs 450 people and includes the 250,000 square foot facility complete with state of the art garages, offices and gym.
That success in racing makes his latest career turn so unusual, because now he is talking perhaps more than ever before about losing.
When winners are losing
"When people look from the outside, they see you've won Super Bowls, NASCAR championships,” he said. “But what people miss when they look from the outside is, they miss the heartaches and the defeats and the mistakes you've made. And my life is full of them."
In a new edition of the New International Version of the Bible, “Game Plan for Life Bible, NIV: Notes by Joe Gibbs,” and a book of biblical devotions, “Game Plan for Life: Chalk Talks,” Gibbs writes frankly about many of his failures, about how just as his coaching career was soaring he was facing private calamities including a bad real estate deal that had him losing $35,000 a month and spiraling into bankruptcy.
"Bad, bad decisions. Really bad," he explains. “I was broke.”
Gibbs on the sidelines during the height of his coaching career, when he says he was facing personal woes.
Years of neglecting his health were followed by the startling news that he had developed diabetes, which he's now had for two decades; years of choosing work over family led to strained relations. Asked if he would do it all again and sacrifice his relationships with his family, he frankly and quickly says, “No. I look at that as probably one of the biggest mistakes I made in life."
A few years ago he said he took his sons out to out dinner and told them, “Don’t do what I did.”
“I could have organized that a different way. I could have found a way to spend more time with them and I think that’ll be one of the things I really second guess … at the end of my life.”
Finding his faith again
Gibbs says he found comfort amid the turmoil in a renewal of his faith. A life-long Baptist, Gibbs says he’s not fond of denominational distinctions and says he and his wife have always gravitated toward, “Bible-believing churches.”
He became a Christian at a young age, “I made that decision when I was 9 but I spent a part of my life drifting, you know, I was on God’s team but I wasn’t playing for him.”
Church of NASCAR ministers to drivers in a 'life-or-death sport'
He says spiritual mentors like a Sunday school teacher in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and some of his Redskins players helped him get back on track with a deeper, more meaningful Christian faith even while the struggles were at their worst.
“Part of playing the game of life is you’re going to have some losses,” he is fond of saying.
That is why he is sharing his private trials in this public way: so others can understand his belief that even winners lose when they lose their way. He regularly tours the country speaking about his faith at Game Plan for Life Outreach Breakfasts, designed so he can present his faith and help men by “getting off the sidelines and into the game,” the organization says.
"I really want to spend the rest of my life getting out this word, you know, 'What is the right way to play the game of life?' You and I are the players, God's our head coach and we're all playing the biggest game of all."
Those struggles have all made him more introspective, more humble and more inclined to leave the office a little earlier for family time. He now has eight grandchildren.
"If I keep God first in my life, if I keep my family and friends as second, and then I keep my occupation third,” he said, “that's when I've found success."
But make no mistake: Joe Gibbs still preaches the gospel of winning and he still thinks that's part of God's plan for him, too.
Ask him how long he’ll keep coming to the office, stomping through the pits and sharing his testimony, "I think you're asking the wrong guy on that one. I think you need to ask the Lord on that one. I think you know at some point I'll probably run out of gas, but man, right now I feel like I've still got a full tank. I'm still going."
There are immeasurable amounts of universes within but one Cosmos. Therefore, if X equals the unknown amounts of universes within Y a single Cosmos then; Z relates to the cosmologic equilibrium of unknowable amounts of immeasurable Cosmos plural.
lionlylamb translation: Reality is a multi-verse.
Hello Apple B Seas,,
Reality is much more than a "multi-verse" for reality consists of a myriad numbers of unknowable amounts of multiple cosmos plural! We live within a universe of such potential smallness in size that it is as a grain of sand upon the beaches!
Translation: The building blocks of reality are small.
The Transfiguration of transmissible reconfigurations is immutable
The change of transferrable changes is not going to change?
One's soul will one day transgress unto being a transfiguration of the immutable fruition,
@ liony – yawn. This is getting old.
No postage stamp, no address, no recipient, and no signature.
The atheists on this blog do not realize that their pride is condemning them to hell. Who is an idiot now? LOL
Obviously, you are. There is no hell, and only a sadistic and evil being would create one.
Apparently, the folks who take the word of Iron Age sheep mounters as the word of god are.
The only people sadistic and evil are humans. We are all born in sin. Let Jesus save you, why do you want to be punished? Talk about sadistic!
So in my daily life I can't take pride in a job well done? Am I not allowed to feel pride when my child brings home a good grade? Where does healthy pride end and sinful pride pick up? Who decides?
Oh, really? Then you must have spoken to someone who can verify that such an event happened to him? No? Then all you have is the bible. Sorry, no sale.
Besides, why would an omnipotent, omniscient being create an entire universe, fill it with his children and then condemn them to burn forever for not believing in him, when he has seen fit to utter not a single word to any of them? When he has decided to allow millions to die in gas chambers? On the killing fields of Cambodia? In droughts and floods?
Please. If that's your god, it's also your hell. You burn in it.
rick, sheep mounters? VERY intelligent. Typical hateful atheist. You are all the same. You have no moral compass.
Damocles, all the glory belongs to God. See how prideful and arrogant you are? Find your joy on the Lord!
Schadenfreude is a particular KIND of pride. It's where you're so proud of how you differ with others who have fallen into misfortune that you take great glee in their downfall and suffering. You might even find yourself Laffing Out Loud at them as they scream, writhe, and burn. But in this, you'd be a pale imitation of your Loving Savior.
Seriously? You are worshipping a deity that supposedly murdered the world and somehow that's ok with you?
Tom Tom, are you new here? God loves all of his children and has prepared an everlasting home for them in heaven. However, he gave man free will too. He cries at every otricity and wants all of us to seek salvation.
You are a rather sad and dim little man.
"No moral compass?" What "moral compass" do YOU have, Mark, if the only thing that keeps you in line is the threat of hell?
Why is just about every one of you a boneheaded ignoramus with an 8th grade education?
Damocles, rather than have an intelligent discussion, resorts to name calling. Typical atheist. No proof, no faith, no brains, no morals.
Mark, you should provide some evidence that your god, your heaven and your hell actually exist before you ask "Who is an idiot now?" Otherwise, the only logical answer is that the "idiot" is you.
Mark, unless you have some objective, verifiable, independent and factual evidence for your god and your beliefs, you are delusional (mentally il), a liar or both. Time to put up or shut up!
Be glad I don't follow biblical morality because then I could kill you simply for disagreeing with me as your deity seemed to like to do.
Tom Tom, there is no spell checker on here. You are a particularly mean-spirited atheist. Typical.
If you can't spell "atrocity" without a dictionary, you dolt, either shut up and get an education, or don't attempt to tell people who have one anything. You're not qualified.
tallulah13, no proof? Open your eyes lol. God is everywhere, and his Word is the Holy Bible. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. You don't know what the Holy Spirit is because your pride will not allow you to open your heart to Jesus. Bad call.
So Tom Tom, you think that when a person is typing quickly and posting quickly, they should not be allowed a type-o. So you are perfect eh? You represent atheists really well. Mean, intolerant, smug, superior. Go on, God is watching and the joke is on you! LOL
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha...................... oh.... my..... the jackwagon spouting off about 'hateful atheists' gets all butt hurt because I called him sad and dim....................... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.............. classic. *sniffle* mommmmmmyyyyyy *pout* the mean old atheists called me a name *stomps feet*
And now you're lying by claiming it was a "typo?" Does your god approve of lying?
You didn't know how to spell it and because you don't have a spell checker you never even recognized it was wrong. That's not a typo, you little weasel. Why should anyone believe what you have to say about god when you lie?
@0G-No gods, ghosts, goblins or ghouls
Show me proof that science explains away God..of course you can't. It defies common sense. Why don't you quit being dope and get with the Lord?
The existence of life on this planet is not proof that a god created it. There is no proof that any such thing occurred. None.
Damocles continues to embarass himself by posting hateful, mean spirited nonsense. You are not contibuting anything, What are you 5 years old? Your mommy is callling. Typical atheist, nothing to say but insults.
You're the one making the claim, Mark. The onus (look it up, dear) is on you to prove your god exists if you're going to make statements of fact. That's what's so disturbing about people like you. You're dishonest. You can't simply admit that you believe and have faith, not facts.
You demean your own belief.
So, Mark, it's atheists who are "insulting?" I guess for you "dope" is a term of endearment.
Nice try Mark – the burden of proof for any god is on those making the claim. That would be you. No proof equals delusional believer.
Tom Tom, typical atheist. Rants about a misspelled word so that he doesn't have to discuss the truth of God. Because he CAN'T dispute the almighty and he knows it. Sad.
Ahhh so your deity is everywhere..... interesting. *cups chin in thought* Does this mean that it is with the murderer as he or she murders and offers no alternatives? Is it a voy-eur behind the eyes of the ra-pist? Is it impotent to free a child from barbaric treatment at the hands of those who are supposed to love it?
I'm not a "he," Mark. I'm also not bent out of shape about a misspelled word (thank you for admitting that you lied about it being a typo, by the way). I'm fed up with people like you who don't have even a minimal education and attempt to tell others that you know something that you don't know. You are not doing your religion any favors by coming here as the poster child of the stereotypical fundy.
What does God have to do? He gave us his only son. You are blind! I feel bad for you empty shells.
Marky Mark who missed the mark,
One small thing. ASSerting something proves it not. Try harder.
You get on here and scream about "typical atheists" having "no morals" and "no brains" when you are unable to spell the words you use or provide anything resembling facts while pretending they exist. They don't. Why do people like you continue to bray about the bible being inerrant instead of being truthful? Why do you deny that you do not need facts to have faith? You demean your own beliefs.
Yes, I can certainly see how a deity could come up with no other way to save its favorite species other than to make a shadow of itself, send it down to us and then murder it lovingly.
Tom Tom, you are not a man? Could have fooled me. "Tom" is a man's name.
I see you are still fixated on a misspelled word. Curious, do you have turrets?
Typo-o means inadvertently spelling a word wrong. I word that is spelled wrong is a misspelled word. What is your problem psycho??
Mark says:I feel bad for you empty shells.
No, you don't. You get on here and call everyone else an idiot and tell them they're going to burn in hell. You relish the thought of people you don't like suffering. You can't WAIT to get to heaven, look down and laugh at all your enemies roasting.
It's abundantly clear in every post you write. How can you be a believer and behave that way?
For the christian god to exist, "he" would have to be able to break many of the laws of physics and we would have to be unable to detect "his" presence and actions. Of course that makes more sense than there are no gods. . .
Mark is a troll. He says nothing of substance, instead repeating the same sentence over and over...no scritpure to back him up...just a flamer. Ignore the troll.
Noun 1. typo – a mistake in printed matter resulting from mechanical failures of some kind
Wrong again, Mark. Now look up 'turrets' and find out what they are. I believe you're a poe.
Why are you bothering?
I agree. The misspellings are not mistakes. He's a poe. No reason to respond further.
Cool, moving along to more important things..... who saw the Ravens/Redskins game?
Michelle Canista wins the POE contest. Congrats!
Damocles, I didn't watch, but the Skins won in overtime! RG got injured, but I haven't heard how seriously.
Yeah I watched it, was a pretty good game. When you watch the play that injured him you are left wondering how he can walk. Looks really really bad in slow motion.
Shoot. He has really turned the team around; I hope he'll be okay.
I think he'll be ok, he was walking around after the game. I think it was more of an 'oh shyt' moment.
Not to brag, but I make a mean batch of hamburger helper. *burp*
Oh hell, pride in my cooking skills... I'm going to hell....
Probably not, but you might die sooner if you eat too much of that stuff. ;)
Naw, I don't make a pig out of myself. :)
"The atheists on this blog do not realize that their pride is condemning them to hell. Who is an idiot now? LOL"
This is easily one of the funniest and telling phrases I've ever read on this blog. It just about sums up the entire conversation on belief.
"Let Jesus save you, why do you want to be punished? Talk about sadistic!"
You've just called your own god sadistic. I don't know if he'll appreciate it. You may want to ask forgiveness for your various sins of pride and arrogance and stupidity, and likely the sin of inbreeding. The word you were searching for was 'masochistic,' dolt.
this thread is comedy gold. "Do you have turrets?" Why, no, I don't have a need for that type of defense system. Clearly 'otricity' was meant to be 'ostrichicity' which is the mass killing of ostriches. But it was "just a spelling error" even though 'o' is on the opposite side of the keyboard from 'a'.
What valuable entertainment. I am canceling my cable channels!
If I become a god (and some religions say I might) I'm going to reward those who exhibited a healthy dose of skepticism with a step up in their next life.
"The only people sadistic and evil are humans"
Thanks for the redundancy
Mark, your emotional reactions are not proof of god. Your ignorance of basic scientific processes is not proof of god. It doesn't take a genius to read a few science books, or history books for that matter. Your god never went anywhere that people didn't take him. He couldn't even cross the ocean without human help. This indicates that either your god is feeble, or that he is indifferent, or that he doesn't exist at all.
End Religion, perhaps you should look in the mirror and wipe that smug look off of your face. God will be waiting with a handy-wipe and Bible. I assume you can read?
tallulah13, God MADE the oceans. He can cross them however He sees fit. Do you swim better than God?
Morality??? Bashing babies brains in and keeping virgin girls for yourself.....your "morality" stinks.
The Bible is God's letter to us from heaven. It is the truth of Jesus. You smug atheists refuse to listen to Jesus' truth. My camel-toe now has tax exempt status. Start your walk with Jesus or find yourself on the other side of the river.
Chocolates for everyone in the trailer park ?
Your camel-toe? Lots of people enter your church, do they?
You atheists must enjoy worms because you will get your own personal worm to feed of your fat drippings for all of etnernity in hell. My camel-toe now has two morning services. Keep believing the lies of the talmud and enjoy eternity with your father satan.
“The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is because vampires are allergic to bullspit.”
_ Richard Pryor
If god created man in his own image, how come I'm not invisible?”
_ David Powers
“What I have a problem with is not so much religion or god, but faith. When you say you believe something in your heart and therefore you can act on it, you have completely justified the 9/11 bombers. You have justified Charlie Manson. If it's true for you, why isn't it true for them? Why are you different? If you say "I believe there's an all-powerful force of love in the universe that connects us all, and I have no evidence of that but I believe it in my heart," then it's perfectly okay to believe in your heart that Sharon Tate deserves to die. It's perfectly okay to believe in your heart that you need to fly planes into buildings for Allah.”
_ Penn Jillette
Faith is the world's all-time, blue-ribbon, gold-medal, undefeated WORST METHOD OF MAKING DECISIONS EVER! Nobody ever uses faith for anything important, or cites it as a justification when any better decision-making technique is available. It's the appeal of last resort for utterly worthless causes, like religion. Even the lottery uses a better technique — hope — and you KNOW what your chance are there, right?
The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus…will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”
_ Thomas Jefferson
“Shake off all fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
_ Thomas Jefferson
Big deal. More religious delusion. Good thing it's slowly fading. The bible is an instruction manual for murder and abuse of women, children and self. I wish more xstians would follow the advice of Jesus. Here's a nice bible quote for you thumpers, please do what Jeebus tells you. What personal sacrifice for "the kingdom of heaven" was Jesus talking about when he told his disciples, "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it"? Castrate yourself. (Matthew 19:11-12) "But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs from the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." (Matthew 19:11-12) The Scholar's Version has: "There are castrated men who castrated themselves because of Heaven's imperial rule. If you are able to accept this (advice), do so."
Sorry to crack your safe little bubble , but faith/religion is actually growing. You can delude yourself and put your head in the ground and say no no religion is fading, but all studies, all reports note that the world today is more religious today than it ever has been and it is not going away.
Then you can provide links to said studies, right, Joe? Do they show that the percentage of the population that believes is growing? Go ahead and post your sources.
U.S. Confidence in Organized Religion at Low Point
Catholics' confidence remains significantly lower than Protestants'
by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ - Forty-four percent of Americans have a great deal or quite a lot of confidence in "the church or organized religion" today, just below the low points Gallup has found in recent years, including 45% in 2002 and 46% in 2007. This follows a long-term decline in Americans' confidence in religion since the 1970s.
Here's some food for thought, Joe. This is from July of this year.
Two recent studies released almost simultaneously provide more hard evidence that religion is slowly losing its grip on humanity, even in the United States.
First, a report from the University of Chicago called “Belief About God Across Time and Countries” looked at survey data from 30 countries, reaching as far back as 1991. While many of the news stories about this report focused on figures showing a tendency for numbers of religious believers to increase with age, the figures also showed the overall percentage of religious believers declined in most countries, showing an increase in only three:
“…the % saying they were atheists increased in 15 of 18 countries from 1991 to 2008 with an average increase of 1.7 percentage points. For 1998 to 2008, atheists grew in 23 of 30 countries for an average gain of 2.3 points. Conversely … certain belief in God declined in 14 of 18 countries from 1991 to 2008 with an average decrease of 2.4 points and from 1998 to 2008 loses occurred in 24 of 30 countries for a similar average decline of 2.4 points. Likewise … never believing in God rose in 14 of 17 countries from 1991 to 2008 for an average increase of 1.6 points and increased in 20 of 29 countries from 1998 to 2008 by an average gain of 2.2 points.”
"all studies, all reports"
Bold claim. Can we assume without even fact checking this doesn't have a chance in hell of being factual? I will take the risk and assume Joe is about as honest as a preacher turned used car salesman on an "all inventory must go" Sale day.
You atheists are idiots. God is YOUR Lord and Saviour. You say there is no God, but you have ABSOLUTELY no proof. I have the Bible, what do you have?
Wrong, Einstein. FSM is my savior. And I'd like to be a fly on the wall when you're standing before him trying to explain why you worshipped the wrong deity your whole life. Sounds like an eternity in Narnia awaits you.
Now go back downstairs to your Mom's basement.
We have science, and overwhelming evidence to the inauthenticity of biblical claims.
You see Kraig, you are just another hateful atheist. I give you proof and all you do is call me stupid. Typical.
Right on Mark! Let's get fired up for God.
Proof? PROOF? Hahahahahahahhaaaa....(ahem). Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said you had "proof".
Ummm...I'm holding a copy of the "Quran" in my hand. I have, um, proof that Allah is the one true deity.
Trust me...I'm not laughing with you. I'm laughing AT you.
@ Zachary Sandberg
Let's start with two conflicting versions for the creation of the Earth and everything.
@was blind, but now I see
Evolution is one evidence that the earth is far older than the bible claims it to be. In fact, there were civilizations existing before the claimed biblical earth was created 6000-8000 years ago. Many ideas in the bible are lifted from older and different religions. Perhaps a comparative religious course would help you out. Youtube is also a good source of God/no GOd debates.
Again, Mark...you provide the face of the Body of Christ....
Could have sworn Jesus died for the atheist...So, if Jesus warns, in Matthew 5:22, of the fires of hell if you call a fellow believer a fool...or synonymously "an idiot"...wonder what Jesus is gonna do to you for being abusive toward the very ones he died for....
I'll bring the marshmallows...
@Mark: "You see Kraig, you are just another hateful atheist..."
Not hateful. Oh no, quite the contrary. I don't hate things that have no proof of existence. If I ask you if Unicorns exist and you say "no", do you expect my response to be "why do you hate Unicorns"?
I don't hate deities...but I will admit I'm not too fond of their fanclubs.
Here are a few errors in science from The Bible:
– The Earth is flat – Proverbs 8:27- Isaiah 40:22- and others
– Bats are birds – Leviticus 11:13, & 19
– Pi is 3 – 1 Kings 7:23
– Unfaithful wives' thighs rot after they drink some 'sacred' water – Numbers 5
– Striped goats are bred by having the mating pair stare at striped objects – Genesis 30:35
– Hares chew their cud – Leviticus 11:5 & 6
– Plants survived without sunlight – Genesis 1
– Hail and snow are kept in storehouses in the sky – Job 38:22
– Ghosts ran through the streets of Jerusalem – Matthew 27:52-53
If you're actually interested in seeing the athiest's perspective on the Bible, this video contains a humorous take on why many scrutinize the supposed word of God: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB3g6mXLEKk&list=PL6D440558124742F5
The following statement was made some 2800 years ago (some 750 years before Christ) by a divinely inspired Isaiah.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in." (Isaiah 40:22)
The prophet Isaiah who lived almost 3,000 years ago stated
"It is He that . . . stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in." [40:22]
Scientists are beginning to understand that the universe is expanding, or stretching out. At least seven times the Scriptures clearly tell us that God stretches out the heavens like a curtain.
Space is Empty:
In ancient times it was variously believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant, or even that a mythical Atlas supported the pillars that held heaven and earth apart, and/or carried the earth around on his shoulders (Where he stood while doing so presents an interesting conundrum). However, in what is probably the oldest book of the Bible, Job, living in an ancient culture that knew nothing about space or planets, asserted that God hung the earth on nothing (1500 B.C.) or, in other words, the earth free floats in space.
"He stretches out the north over empty space; he hangs the earth on nothing [Job 26:7]
for all you scientist worshippers a recent quote "one in seven UK based scientists or doctors has witnessed colleagues Intentionally altering or fabricating data during their research or for the purposes of publication" (British Medical Journal, Britain) also for you ancient historians, how is that "Piltdown Man" working for you? If you do not know or remember, look it up. you may want to look under major fraud.
@ was blind...
Three immediately come to mind:
Genesis 1:1 ..."in the beginning, God..."
John 3:16..."For God so loved...
"I'm Blind, but now I see..." your personal experience confirms nothing....the patients on the psych unit of my hospital are filled with some amazing claims...just as the Muslim, the Jew, the Buddhist, the Rastafarian make claims of their experience...
From the perspective of a desert dweller, horizon to horizon is, indeed a circle, not a globe. And a tent and curtains make nice dwelling places and decor, but they are limited within the view of "Isaiah's" empirical viewpoint...not what Mr. Hubble postulated, or the arc of the earth's impression upon a waxing crescent moon.
By the way, blind, which Isaiah?
""He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
- It says "circle", not globe, sphere or ball, for which the Hebrews did have words - they did not use those words to describe the Earth.
- People look the size of grasshoppers when viewed from around a thousand feet (or so) alti'tude - just like if the author(s) had viewed them from the Judean hills/mountains.
- Looking up at the ceiling of a tent and comparing it to the sky - meh!
LOL literally @Mark. Yeah. The Bible. The biggest book of fairy tale fiction on the planet. You Bible thumpers really give me a good laugh. I don't care if you blelieve, but don't push it on others that don't. If Joe Gibbs believes and has faith, good for him. If it works for him, that's terrific. It doesn't work for many others. Until "God" materailizes in front of my eyes and prove who he is, I'll never believe. So just leave it at that. I don't push my agnositc beliefs on Bible thumpers, and I don't want their beliefs pushed on me. If a book of over-bloated fairy tales (and not nice ones at that!) is what you wish to follow, hey, go for it.
Thanks all very nice. Unfortunately, science is not a religion. It's peer reviewed and it's evidence is verified. The whole of microbiology exists solely because of what we know about evolution and how it works.
“God did not create man in his own image. Evidently, it was quite the other way about, which is the painless explanation for the profusion of gods and religions, and the fratricide both between and among faiths, that we see all about us and that has so retarded the development of civilization.”
That Hole In The North
Another interesting tidbit that illuminates the Divine origin of Scripture is the recent discovery of a huge hole in space… in the direction of the northern hemisphere
The universe has a huge hole in it that dwarfs anything else of its kind. The discovery caught astronomers by surprise. The hole is nearly a billion light-years across. It is not a black hole, which is a small sphere of densely packed matter. Rather, this one is mostly devoid of stars, gas and other normal matter, and it's also strangely empty of the mysterious "dark matter" that permeates the cosmos. Other space voids have been found before, but nothing on this scale. 
This "gap" is in the Northern Hemisphere, lying in the general direction of the constellation Bootes. This "hole in space" is a 300 million light year gap in the distribution of galaxies, has taken cosmologists by surprise, not because it exists, but because it is so big.
Indeed, He stretches out the north over the empty place.
Those Singing Stars...
Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: "When the morning stars sang together..." In fact…
The galaxy is full of objects that emit radio waves, including black holes and stars of various kinds 
To James, who seems to think he's scored some kind of point with allegations about the Piltdown Man and falsified research, who exactly do you think found out that those were hoaxes and cheatings? Prayer? Revelation? Scripture? Sermons? Personal appearance by the Almighty, shaking his finger at them? Nope. OTHER SCIENTISTS! Science is self-correcting. The Bible is never-correcting.
The Orbit of The Sun:
Scientists have long believed that the earth revolved around the sun, which was stationary. This caused them to scoff at the following verses which, they said, taught the opposite…
"In them has He set a tabernacle for the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices as a strong man to run a race. His [the sun's] going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." [Psalm 19:4-6]
However it was later discovered that the sun is in fact moving through space at approximately 600,000 miles per hour. It is traveling through the heavens and has a "circuit", just as the Bible says. It is estimated that its circuit is so large, it would take 200 million years to complete one orbit.
Gravitational Properties of Constellations:
God asked Job
“Can you bind the cluster of the Pleiades, Or loose the belt of Orion?” (Job 38:31).
“In the last century astrophysicists have discovered that the stars of Pleiades move in unison with each other, and are thus gravitationally bound. They have also discovered that the stars of Orion are free agents that are not gravitationally bound! Interestingly, the three stars that comprise Orion's belt appear to be closer together than the outer stars in the constellation, but are actually farther apart! (they appear closer together because of the 2-D plane we see them in)”.
Interesting, Zachary. I had a philosophy professor some years ago argue against Christianity based on its nonfalsifiability. Now you are arguing that it can be falsified? Wish you had been in class with me.
BTW evolution doesn't falsify the Bible's claims. The Bible speaks to the origin of the cosmos and of life. Evolution, as most evolutionists will agree, speaks to process, as Darwin said, "The Origin of the Species." Your assumption that the Bible describes a world 6,000 or so years old is inaccurate. (Some Christians do think so, but that is different from the Bible saying it. )
The Bible is God's letter to us from heaven. It is the truth of Jesus. You atheists refuse to listen to Jesus' truth. My camel-toe now has tax exempt status. Start your walk with Jesus or find yourself on the other side of the river.
Lev. 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. (See also Deut. 14:7)
The above represents one of the most popular objections in the skeptics book, and this is their take on the meaning: Hares (or some say rabbits, but "hare" is what is in mind here) are not ruminants; they practice refection. Refection is a process in which animals, like hares, eat their own dung mixed with undigested material. The Hebrew language does not use the word for "dung"; therefore, this passage is in error.
The objection is also registered against the verses mentioning the coney, or hyrax; however, the identification of this animal is uncertain - we will assume it to be an animal that also does refection.
Two issues are at hand: the definition of "cud" and that of "chewing." Let's take a closer look at the Hebrew version of both. Here is the word for "cud" according to Strong's:
gerah, the cud (as scraping the throat): cud.
There are a few factors we need to keep in mind here. First, this word is used nowhere in the Old Testament besides these verses in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. We have only this context to help us decide what it means in terms of the Mosaic law.
Second, refection is a process whereby these animals pass pellets of partially digested food, which they chew on (along with the waste material) in order to give their stomachs another go at getting the nutrients out. It is not just "dung" that the hares are eating, which is probably why the Hebrew word for "dung" was not used here.
Contrast this with what cows and some other animals do, rumination, which is what we moderns call "chewing the cud." They regurgitate partially digested food in little clumps called cuds, and chew it a little more while mixing it with saliva.
So then: partially digested food is a common element here. We therefore suggest that the Hebrew word simply refers to any partially digested food - the process is not the issue, just the object.
"...recent discovery of hole in space..."
Bind, the "discovery" was back in 2007...But I do like your selective reading and need to take one story, wed it to a single verse, and declare the inerrancy of scripture.
I see you've taken a page from the writers of the New Testament who see something in the Old Testament and claim that Jesus fulfilled "prophecy."
What rubbish. Science can't explain life on Earth. Just look around. God is everywhere. How can you be so blind? I feel sorry for you. Praise God!
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.
Gen 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
oooh, mark, a book. you don't get any more convincing than that
richard; i did not know we were scoring points. i was just sharing quotes from some recent reading. I did not make it up or send a bill for points I was not even taking sides. just trying to help and no one cares.
– Coneys, hares and hyraxes do not chew their cuds. Regardless of whether this was just an old Hebrew method of deciding what to eat dependent on observation; the test of scientific fact does not pass.
The light in Genesis 1:3 is from the hebrew word (H216) which refers to the SUN. The light in Genesis 1:14 is (H3974) which refers to the SON. Note that H3974 comes from the root word H215 (to become illuminated.)
And He made two lights; the greater light (H1419-older) and the lesser light (H6996-younger).
Christianity is not falsifiable as its proponents base the theory on human actions (the writing of the Bible) which cannot be tested by observation or experiment. Scientific theories are falsifiable.
I'm claiming the bible is false from outside sources, my own evidence, etc. Biblical claims are argued from an unfalsified standpoint.
Your Bible is as much proof as any other book of fiction.
Hey, Jesus is the best driver in the business. Get on His team. Let's go win this thing!
“Game Plan for Life in the 21st Century:"
Only for the new members of this blog:
Putting the kibosh/”google” on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man
As requested by Mr. Gibbs:
Only for the new members of this blog–
Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/
From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."
Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.
From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:
"Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.
Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.
Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.
The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.
Only Luke records it. (Luke mentions it in his gospel and Acts, i.e. a single attestation and therefore historically untenable). The Ascension ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers.
The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "
"In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.
With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:
An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
"Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."
p.168. by Ted Peters:
Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "
So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.
@ Where are the bones?
See verse 10 for your answer:
1Preserve me, O God, for I take refuge in You.
2I said to the LORD, “You are my Lord;
I have no good besides You.”
3As for the saints who are in the earth,
They are the majestic ones in whom is all my delight.
4The sorrows of those who have bartered for another god will be multiplied;
I shall not pour out their drink offerings of blood,
Nor will I take their names upon my lips.
5The LORD is the portion of my inheritance and my cup;
You support my lot.
6The lines have fallen to me in pleasant places;
Indeed, my heritage is beautiful to me.
7I will bless the LORD who has counseled me;
Indeed, my mind instructs me in the night.
8I have set the LORD continually before me;
Because He is at my right hand, I will not be shaken.
9Therefore my heart is glad and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will dwell securely.
10For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.
11You will make known to me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.
Putting the Jewish Psalm's in proper perspective:
origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.
New Torah For Modern Minds
“Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. (prob•a•bly
Adverb: Almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell).
The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, (supposed author of the Psalms) far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.
The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."
why it is always people like to know what rich and famous, or successful people think of religions?
the AnViL wrote on December 9, 2012 at 2:46 pm, “lionlylamb – yes yes – i see you screaming out to be heard! i see your desperate need to communicate all the beautiful wonderous things in your head... *deep heavy sigh* being diagnosed with a mental illness puts you in the same category as the colorblind. i give you no more credence in regards to your grasp on reality than i would the colorblind when attempting to separate red from green apples. dismissed.
Lionlylamb reverberates; I have a mental disability not an illness! I have been diagnosed as having a schizzo-effective personality disorder meaning I am able to convey sometimes my views and perceptions beyond those who labor tenaciously without coming to terms regarding one’s life and living arrangements. There are many more individuals who have more disabling mental disorders than my disability. I was 33 when I lost my inability to be in touch with the relativisms of my life’s livelihoods. I am now nearing the age of 58. 25 years of being disabled and still alive! (BTW, I am cleared to have a license to drive a car!)
Your desire to willingly classify me with having no credence to speak of and placing me with color blindness is but a tawdry embittered vestal of a diminutive contriteness unbecoming a minded rightness in sound creative qualities!
Translation: I'm a crazy old fuck.
Introducing religion to the mentally unstable is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Gibbs is talking more about losing these days b/c rather than prepare obsessively and have his people prepared to execute, he leaves it "in God's hands". Here's a hint. There IS NO God. That's why your new "game plan" fails Coach. Go back to running that inside counter handoff you used to have the Skins run back in the day; you'll have more success than via prayer.
You cannot prove there is NO GOd any more than we can prove there IS one. So spout trash you can't back up
Mark, you can't prove there is no tooth fairy, therefore there is one. Idiot.
@Mark: "You cannot prove there is NO GOd any more than we can prove there IS one. So spout trash you can't back up"
Completely useless statement. Nice reverse logic there. You know what else I can't prove? Invisible unicorns in orbit around one of jupiter's moons. So I guess, according to your brilliance, they must exist, right? Because, um, you can't "disprove" them? Uhhhhhh.....
Kraig – i know i'm being critical here – but hear me out, bro.
it's not a good idea to explain to the enemies of reason about the concept of argumentum ad ignorantiam. don't point them to bertrand russels teapot analogy... it just confuses them more – and you stand the chance of them actually understanding it – thus depriving others the comedy they provide when they raise such arguments from ignorance.
the enemies of reason can't handle logic – it'll just end badly and you'll ruin really funny stuff when they switch to some other less comical tactic.
Good point...and I agree. Unless Mark is a troll...which is a good chance...you are correct. Theo-tards do provide endless hours of comedy.
Anvil and Kraig — what's comedy to you may be utterly convincing to the less critically minded. That's why it's important to not just ridicule fundies like Mark but to show WHY he's wrong. Nice work in that department, BTW.
Looks like he has another winning ticket!
Now when he starts marrying cousins and siblings, he'll be in tight in the Southern Bible Belt!!!
He can then run for a political office.
Do I have the timeline right? He went from something inconsequential like football, to something uselsss to society like NASCAR to something destructive and evil like "evangelist"? NIce. What is next, ax murderer? Seems like he's lived a wated life.
Nicely played, sir.
The religious might argue he practiced the good ol' boy Trinity of football, NASCAR and Gawd. Can he shoehorn hunting in there somewhere?
I'm gonna murder one thousand children and bathe in their blood. Then I'm gonna ask god for forgiveness and spend eternity in heaven. Sounds reasonable to me.
Eternal rewards and punishments are not reasonable.
Depends what you mean by reasonable. If you don't assume a benevolent god but one that desires nothing more than adoration and watching those he/she doesn't like suffer, the actions would be arguably "reasonable" from this god's perspective.
DOesn't work that way. And you won't be laughing soon.
Thanks, Mark. You obviously have never read 1 Corinthians 13:4ff...and, I like how you are lusting over the eternal damnation of the "lost."
And you apparently missed Jesus' comment on the second part of the "greatest" commandment (Matthew 22)...
I wanted to thank you for putting a face on the Body of Christ.
Lol. What's going to happen?
December 21st, 2012?
You realize that our calendar ends every December on the 31st, and begins all over again on January 1st?
The world doesn't end every year.
And it will not end on December 21st, either.
Mark won't reveal what "soon" is because he doesn't have TRUE faith in anything, even Scotsmen.
Tony wrote on December 9, 2012 at 2:17 pm, declaring, “You can imagine trillions of different fantasy ways the Universe could have come into being and developed. The action by a god is just one of those options, which are all equally unsubstantiated. Physics tries to come up with rational answer by analyzing the evidence we can access and drawing the various possible conclusions into the most likely answer.
Lionlylamb answers Tony saying, “The limitations of quantum thermal dynamics may only be attributed by the degradation effects in timed probabilities upon perpetual decaying ratios of certain atoms structuralized accolades of which quantum physics remains aloof upon and cannot be fathomed via any mathematical physics conveyances which by the way are fraught with faulty probabilities and unsound factual soundings.”
Introducing religion to the mentally ill is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
RELIGION = for those too stupid to understand science.
Love those demotivational posters about motorsports in the rain. F1 = vroom. Superbikes = vroom. Moto GP = vroom. NASCAR = lame.
Vroooom! Hut hut! Amen!
72 going on 7
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.