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December 8th, 2012
10:00 PM ET

Winning, by God. Joe Gibbs' third act: Evangelist

By Tom Foreman and Eric Marrapodi, CNN

Charlotte, North Carolina (CNN)—Joe Gibbs moves through pit row at Dover International Speedway with purpose. On this clear day he has three NASCAR teams competing under the banner of Joe Gibbs Racing. The NFL coach and Hall of Fame legend barks encouragement as his teams gather in their fire suits in front of racks of tools.

“We’re due one today! Let’s go!”

Then the team members put their hands together at the center of a circle, Gibbs slaps his on top with the sun catching his Super Bowl ring, and bows his head in a sudden moment of calm before the high-octane storm. “Father thank you for this day,” he begins to pray.

The white hair under his logo covered ball cap is an oddity here. The pits of NASCAR are a young man’s world. Top speed, quick reflexes and raw power are prized.

The drivers are the captains of the cars, but speed and precision of their pit crews – leaping over walls, changing tires and filling gas tanks – is often the difference between winning and loosing.

So what is the 72-year-old Gibbs, well past retirement age, doing amid the chaos and thundering noise?

The same thing Gibbs has always done: He's calling the shots.

“To me, life is so exciting. To me, life is always trying to beat someone in something competitive. It's kinda been my whole life," Gibbs explains while sitting in the sprawling Joe Gibbs Racing Complex in Charlotte, North Carolina, after a recent race.

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He sips on a large green tea, nursing a sore throat he claims is from allergies but is more likely from all the hollering over the racing weekend. Dressed in a polo shirt tucked into khakis, he is fit and trim, likely in better shape than most men half his age. He says he’s as excited now about all he is doing as he was when he was young.

"I really think I am,” he says with a wide, convincing grin.

The rise of Joe Gibbs

Gibbs' rise to sports superstardom began in the 1980s, when he took the struggling Washington Redskins, a team with few stars and even fewer playoff hopes, to not one but three Super Bowl championships, earning the respect of the league and the adoration of fans.

As the cold February rain poured down on fans who came out for the team parade after the 1983 Super Bowl, Gibbs praised their dedication with the enthusiasm that has long made them love him. "There's no other fans in the world who would come out in weather like this except in Washington, D.C.!"

A young mustachioed CNN sports reporter, Keith Olbermann, reported a half-million fans braved the weather for a glimpse of the team, Gibbs and the gleaming Lombardi trophy that day.

“Each one of you has a small piece of this trophy today,” Gibbs yelled into the microphone, pumping the Super Bowl prize for the roaring crowd.

Less than a decade later, he stunned those same fans by turning from football to auto racing, setting up shop in his native North Carolina with admittedly little knowledge of what he was getting into. "I was kind of a novice,” Gibbs said while touring the floor of the JGR workshop. “I was scared to death, you know, 'Can we do this?' "

But Gibbs applied his formula: He worked around the clock, hired great people and relentlessly pushed for perfection. Soon enough the championships started rolling in for his racing teams, too.

Gibbs addresses the media after returning to coach the Redskins

In 2004, Redskins owner Dan Snyder lured Gibbs out of the pits and back to the sidelines. He coached the 'Skins for a four-year stint, helping them get back to the playoffs. But by 2008, Gibbs was ready to go back to racing and he walked away from football for good.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

As an owner, Gibbs' teams have won three NASCAR Cup Series Championships. He talks a lot now about being a small business owner. His racing enterprise employs 450 people and includes the 250,000 square foot facility complete with state of the art garages, offices and gym.

That success in racing makes his latest career turn so unusual, because now he is talking perhaps more than ever before about losing.

When winners are losing

"When people look from the outside, they see you've won Super Bowls, NASCAR championships,” he said. “But what people miss when they look from the outside is, they miss the heartaches and the defeats and the mistakes you've made. And my life is full of them."

In a new edition of the New International Version of the Bible, “Game Plan for Life Bible, NIV: Notes by Joe Gibbs,” and a book of biblical devotions, “Game Plan for Life: Chalk Talks,” Gibbs writes frankly about many of his failures, about how just as his coaching career was soaring he was facing private calamities including a bad real estate deal that had him losing $35,000 a month and spiraling into bankruptcy.

"Bad, bad decisions. Really bad," he explains. “I was broke.”

Gibbs on the sidelines during the height of his coaching career, when he says he was facing personal woes.

Years of neglecting his health were followed by the startling news that he had developed diabetes, which he's now had for two decades; years of choosing work over family led to strained relations. Asked if he would do it all again and sacrifice his relationships with his family, he frankly and quickly says, “No. I look at that as probably one of the biggest mistakes I made in life."

A few years ago he said he took his sons out to out dinner and told them, “Don’t do what I did.”

“I could have organized that a different way. I could have found a way to spend more time with them and I think that’ll be one of the things I really second guess … at the end of my life.”

Finding his faith again

Gibbs says he found comfort amid the turmoil in a renewal of his faith. A life-long Baptist, Gibbs says he’s not fond of denominational distinctions and says he and his wife have always gravitated toward, “Bible-believing churches.”

He became a Christian at a young age, “I made that decision when I was 9 but I spent a part of my life drifting, you know, I was on God’s team but I wasn’t playing for him.”

Church of NASCAR ministers to drivers in a 'life-or-death sport'

He says spiritual mentors like a Sunday school teacher in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and some of his Redskins players helped him get back on track with a deeper, more meaningful Christian faith even while the struggles were at their worst.

“Part of playing the game of life is you’re going to have some losses,” he is fond of saying.

That is why he is sharing his private trials in this public way: so others can understand his belief that even winners lose when they lose their way. He regularly tours the country speaking about his faith at Game Plan for Life Outreach Breakfasts, designed so he can present his faith and help men by “getting off the sidelines and into the game,” the organization says.

"I really want to spend the rest of my life getting out this word, you know, 'What is the right way to play the game of life?' You and I are the players, God's our head coach and we're all playing the biggest game of all."

Those struggles have all made him more introspective, more humble and more inclined to leave the office a little earlier for family time. He now has eight grandchildren.

"If I keep God first in my life, if I keep my family and friends as second, and then I keep my occupation third,” he said, “that's when I've found success."

But make no mistake: Joe Gibbs still preaches the gospel of winning and he still thinks that's part of God's plan for him, too.

Ask him how long he’ll keep coming to the office, stomping through the pits and sharing his testimony, "I think you're asking the wrong guy on that one. I think you need to ask the Lord on that one. I think you know at some point I'll probably run out of gas, but man, right now I feel like I've still got a full tank. I'm still going."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Belief • Christianity

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soundoff (978 Responses)
  1. Crazyeyes

    Joe Gibbs is a good man. I just don't understand why otherwise intelligent people believe in such foolishness.

    December 9, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • was blind, but now I see

      One day, you will. Hopefully, sooner rather than later.

      December 9, 2012 at 9:02 pm |
  2. HeavenSent

    Christians have to come on these articles to tell Jesus' truth. Atheists refuse to hear the words I am writing. My camel-toe has ping-pong in the rec room now. Start your walk with Jesus by reading His word, the Holy Bible which is 100% true.

    Amen.

    December 9, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

      HeavenSent, should we all be rightly dividing the word into its base foundations being parables and real truths and stories of fiction? If I were to rightly divide the word of truth, this is what I would be doing and so should all folks do who impart to the biblically reasoned in order to bring the light the f I c t I t I o u s stories written with the words of truth.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:51 pm |
    • Unagi

      The Greeks and Romans thought their mythology was true too. They were every bit as devout as you. Yet, just like yours, their religion was just a collection of fables.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I expect foolish thinking from an atheist. Another Pharisees jealous that Jesus is God and not them. The hair clogging my kitchen sink is not mine. Jesus’ wisdom is roaring it's ugly head throughout the world.

      Amen.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:57 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      HeavenSent,

      Christ Jesus is but one son of God Almighty of a myriad of godly sons and even daughters way too numerous for us to keep records on!

      Yes Christ may well have been the very 1st son born before the earth was made as it now is and yes Christ came to this world to prove to his father that he (Christ Jesus) was who he was by dying and going into his dead body to where his father did reign to show to his father that his very first mission to establish all the ways and means needed to keep the nasty from ever anymore to be but only the ruled over within the confining constraints of all celestial cosmologies everywhere to be so known by God Almighty!

      December 9, 2012 at 9:15 pm |
  3. GOD_is_Miraculous

    Religion is so nice.It's so un-confusing and makes the world easier and safer.Science and stuff is scary :(

    I looked into a chemistry textbook my son brought home from school......Needless to say,I burned that evil thing and made sure the Bible was the ONLY thing he reads....

    December 9, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • tony

      I hope you and the neighbors stoned him for blasphemy too.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:17 pm |
    • Roger that

      Classic footage folks.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
    • GOD_is_Miraculous

      @Tony

      His sin's were cleansed with the fire,so no worries :D

      December 9, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
    • Akira

      LOL

      December 9, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
  4. tony

    Atheists are supplying help here. That's what this blog is for.

    December 9, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      @tony

      Typical atheist showing their hatred for God and their love for Satan, who is the Devil. I asked my 12-year-old daughter not to smoke in front of her kids. This life is a test from God. Can you pass? No.

      Amen.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • tony

      Answer the red sea question.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:33 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      @tony

      Humble yourself and ask Jesus for forgiveness. Jesus told us he would give you reprobate minds. The parting of the red sea has been traced back to my couch but I flipped the cushion. After their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.

      Amen.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:52 pm |
  5. Jesus_Loves_NASCAR

    Then maybe he can instill the Wrath of GOD into Kyle Busch to prevent Busch from being an immature,defiling little whining kid!!!!!

    December 9, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
  6. Religion is the cause of and non-solution to all problems

    Are you people all alcoholics that you spend all day with nothing else to do but sit there and taunt each other about MYTHS??? Really?
    Get lives. Seek help.

    December 9, 2012 at 7:51 pm |
    • Akira

      It's meth. Get it right.
      .
      .
      .
      .
      I'm kidding.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      No, it's meth pretty much for me.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:24 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      And I will have you know I haven't had a drink since breakfast.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:25 pm |
  7. lionlylamb

    Bootyfunk wrote, "honestly, i'm trying to help you."

    There are far and wide many others reading my posts that do not share your rather tawdry accolades of dispersive innuendos meant only to be as sidetracking commentaries of non-usefulness. If you do not understand my wordage usages then pose me some fact-based questions about what you cannot reason out and I will try to answer them!

    December 9, 2012 at 7:41 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Muddy words denotes muddy thinking, Liony. You communicate on the level of a 6th grader with delusions of grandeur.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:45 pm |
    • tony

      Easy: God parts red sea as a boiblicaly claimed good act. God drowns about 300,00 innocents with the latest two tsunamis. Explain how god is wonderful in 2-3 sentences and no made up words. Otherwise, make your love elsewhere.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Translation: I know you are but what am I?

      December 9, 2012 at 8:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You will try to answer them? No, you won't, LL. You've been asked questions repeatedly and all you do is babble uselessly.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:27 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Toiletry Tommie girl,

      The only question posed above is from A.B.

      Apple Bush asked on December 9, 2012 at 8:22 pm, "Translation: I know you are but what am I?"

      A.B. is a goodly person and in my eyes' sake and I put up with his tongued verbal a c u m I n a t e s.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • james

      tony; who are you to say who is innocent? those pharoah worshippers were anything but and who said he sent the tsunamis to kill anyone? liony, you humor me so much, keep up the ....work.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:41 pm |
    • Akira

      AB: channeling Pee Wee Herman?
      Your translations are hilarious.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:42 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Akira, someone has to do it. I am still fine tuning my technique.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:53 pm |
  8. lionlylamb

    People tend to dispute and become riled up and write sarcasms of ill will towards one and others who write their yearning’s desires to be so heard in hoping’s way. Others may find fond clement weather in the wordage of one’s domiciled fruition. The gingered bred saliencies do ever make revealing the melding of conditioned duplicities. Love seems no more the conquered or even for conquests except for the young of heart’s treasuring needs.

    December 9, 2012 at 7:26 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Tiresome, Liony

      December 9, 2012 at 7:31 pm |
  9. Darrell

    Boogity, boogity, boogity!!! Git yer Bibles out boys. We's gonna have us a tent revival.

    December 9, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Which God?

      You mean "boogity, boogity shoo," don'cha?

      December 10, 2012 at 10:58 am |
  10. Befree

    What do athiests offer mankind? Where are the conversions to athiesm expressing thier joy, putting forth evidence of a transformed life, peace or improved relationships. Athiesm has nothing to offer mankind. Its sole platform is based on agruements against what others believe Just listen to the voice of athiesm, Negative, attacking, hatefull towards those that refuse to think like them. Scoffing like little chldren at those that believe in God. I dont care what website you blog on – this is the voice of athiesm. Hardly noble, hardly upliftingm hardly worth paying any attention to.

    December 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Heaven's Bad Scent and pewey stinky letter carrier.

      What do believers offer mankind ? Delusions.
      Your premise, that something is valuable because it's useful, is called Utilitarianism. It's a slippery slope.
      Pink unicorns may useful to 2 year olds. They are also false.
      Grow up.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      atheists offer the choice to think for yourself. not to take the bible seriously because it's a terrible guide for good ethics. and btw, the biggest donators to charity EVER are from non-believers - see bill gates and warren buffet. atheists offer a life free from being in a cult - like the christian cult. atheism tells us to do good for the sake of doing good - not because of the reward of heaven or the threat of hell. atheism tells you to stand on your feet instead of kneeling like a sycophant. atheism tells us to ask questions and not just accept archaic answers as absolute truth.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • End Religion

      Befree, will it lift up your spirits if I cram a bible up your ass?

      December 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Damocles

      @befree

      We don't 'offer' anything. Are you saying that you only want to follow the path that leads to a treat? Sorry, all we can offer is that you live your life as best as you can.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Roger that

      This is what Christianity offers society.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:33 pm |
    • Just call me Lucifer

      Your all powerful all knowing god is a wuss. He's never cured a disease, stopped a flood, healed the sick or even answered a prayer. I'll tell you what... you pray to your god that I want to fight him. I'll meet him anytime, anywhere and beat him up. Then you can pray to me, and I won't answer your prayers either.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:46 pm |
    • Heaven's Bad Scent and pewey stinky letter carrier.

      Your Jeebus sure offered all the people in Far Rockaway a whole heck of a lot now didn't "it" ? Yeah god. Good goin. Thanks a heap for the hurricane, to prove your love for your children. Yes indeedy. Nice god ya got there. It does work in "mysterious ways". A bit too "mysterious" if ya ask me.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:01 pm |
    • Sounds just like Christians

      Just read some of their posts. Unlike Christians, atheists almost never threaten anyone with eternal torture and damnation. And of course remember how lovingly Christians have bombed clinics and murdered doctors. Atheists don’t do that either

      December 10, 2012 at 10:48 am |
  11. lionlylamb

    Mohammad A Dar wrote on December 9, 2012 at 6:55 pm, asking me, "what is your goal, lamb?"

    Why should I have goals Mad? Is it not enough to write about whatever the mind allows one to so write? My physical life has found contentment and is no more in any fiscal floundering to leave me in worrying mode. I do so love letting my conscience guide my wordage sakes. And you Mad? What say you are your life goals if I may be so succinct?

    December 9, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      " I do so love letting my conscience guide my wordage sakes."

      i'd be great if you'd let rudimentary grammar guide your 'wordage sakes'. seriously, do you write all your posts via a random word generating program?

      December 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      okay, let me rephrase my question, what is your message to us? I don't understand your posts, so take them for rubbish, no offence intended, are you a lion or lamb, in your real life?

      December 9, 2012 at 7:13 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      oh and for your question "And you Mad? What say you are your life goals if I may be so succinct?"

      I still haven't found what I am looking for.....

      December 9, 2012 at 7:15 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Bootyfunk quoted me declaring, " I do so love letting my conscience guide my wordage sakes."

      And now you want to run interference clauses forsaking a random word generator? My guess is you can't guess what one's conscience is to be used for, other than tying one shoelaces and pulling up your drawers!

      December 9, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Mohammad A Dar,

      Looking now for one's goals are we? Keep searching Mad, for one day, you might just stumble upon a goal to fit your brain-yards desires! :-) :-( :-)

      December 9, 2012 at 7:21 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      honestly, i'm trying to help you. do you realize NO ONE understands ANYTHING you write? i'm not joking. you need to take a basic writing class. go show one of your posts to an english professor. and i'm not saying everything has to be exactly grammatically correct - but it should be understandable.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      I see life = schools + work + kids + God, what else can you add lamb?

      December 9, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Mohammad A Dar,

      Your life seems to be full up. I though have all the time needed to do whatever I dare want and I am using CCNBB to gather together my thoughts of sound reason to be so amplified among others reading my words. This is all I have going for me right now Mohammed. My schizzo-effective personality disorder leaves me toward expressionisms of my will and willingness to say the things which I feel are of important messages to be revealed. Sometimes I write parables and sometimes poetic nuances and sometimes I fight back against those here who daringly bully other folks. I was 33 when my personality disorder came into existence Mohammad.

      Now nearing the age of 58, my saneness depends upon my writings of issues I let flow thru my being. Nearly 25 years of having this disability will be a lifetime of duress and in writing I am doing myself a favor to show myself and the whole world that I am worthy of being heard regardless of those tyrannical peasants who makes rude accusations against me! I can take now most anything anyone wields against my words!

      My disability is permanent and cannot be overcome and though the meds I am taking do help me, my will and desire to remain expressive without raising hellishness desires of rudeness is beneficial to my staying upon a firm footing.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:20 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      sorry to hear about your disability, are you man or woman? If you're a woman, don't think too much about your disorder, it is natural, but in any case, your disorder is giving you an opportunity to improve your writing skills, let people talk, keep going buddy, I will read your posts

      December 9, 2012 at 9:41 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Mohammad A Dar,

      I am a 57 nearly 8 year old man. I receive 1 grand a month disability where I keep me and my brother just barely above the social waters of living. My brother and I have been living together ever since mom did pass on. Our abode is paid for so no mortgage payments. I pay all the bills nowadays for my brother has not had work in around 3 years. I only have the internet to keep me sane in my onwards march to death's gates. I believe in many heavens being upon the insides all life's forms even insects to mammals and fishes and any other life forms even the plants. One could call me being Pagan. I base this belief upon scripture. 1Corinthians 3:9 "For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building." and also Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside you."

      December 9, 2012 at 9:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      LL, this is one of the few posts or series of posts in which your meaning has been somewhat clear. I am sorry for your disability. I am sure it is very difficult to manage.

      December 9, 2012 at 10:04 pm |
  12. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Here is what is nice ID or Creationism will never be taught in public schools in USA OK. Happy Holidays.

    December 9, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  13. Bootyfunk

    the t.itle of this article should read:

    Football Coach and NASCAR Team Owner Becomes Cult Leader

    time to spread more guilt, fear and ignorance at the pulpit.

    December 9, 2012 at 6:58 pm |
  14. acheptler

    football and now Christianity? Keep you little boys locked in whatever backward holler this guy operates in.

    December 9, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
  15. will

    Christianity is the religion out of which care and concern for orphaned children, the widowed and the sick spread through the Western world. Christianity is the religion out of which the idea for public education came. Christianity is the religion out of which separation of church and state came – in which people said the state is not ultimate, it operates in a limited sphere. Christianity is the religion out of which the idea "all men are created equal" was propagated and so on and so on. . . read a little about how the world in which you lived actually developed and quit sticking your head in the sand of historical ignorance.

    December 9, 2012 at 6:54 pm |
    • Damocles

      Really? So before christianity they did what? Let all the orphaned children die? Punched the sick in the face? Please. I'm betting that there were some slaves owned by pious believers that would disagree that your belief teaches all men are created equal. Separation of church and state came from a fairly deistic outlook that many of the founding fathers had, not christianity. I'm all for giving credit where it is due, but trying to make it sound like humans were raving morons before religion came along is simply goofy.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:04 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @will

      Christianity is the religion out of which care and concern for orphaned children,
      *Christian churches choose to protect child molesters instead of the victim. the rampant child abuse churches have covered up has caused unimaginable damage.

      Christianity is the religion out of which the idea for public education came
      *Christianity has also been the worst enemy of learning. how many people were put in prison or put to death for saying the world revolves around the sun? how many books have been burned by the churches? christianity keeps evolution out of the classrooms and text books. christianity teaches us not to question - just obey.

      Christianity is the religion out of which separation of church and state came
      *and has always been the main opponent of separation of church and state.

      Christianity is the religion out of which the idea "all men are created equal" was propagated and so on and so on. . .
      no, it's not where the idea of all men are created equal came from. and were they? how about blacks? they weren't treated so "equally" by devout southern christians. the bible supports slavery throughout and tells us to kill all g.ays. and women are 3rd class citizens in the bible. equal? that's a joke.

      read a little about how the world in which you lived actually developed and quit sticking your head in the sand of historical ignorance.
      *lol, funny coming from you. you believe a book written by people that thought the earth was flat is full of wisdom. here's some history for you - it's unlikely jesus ever existed at all. just like hercules, the bible is a book of myth and folklore. most of the main stories are stolen from other religions/cultures. want to read about the garden of eden? read the epic of gilgamesh. the story was told before the bible.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:08 pm |
    • End Religion

      lol @ "punched this sick in the face"

      December 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Saraswati

      @will, @booty, you're both right.Christianity has done both good and harm. As it's primary text becomes more out of date, unfortunately, the opportunity to do harm begins to outweigh that to do good. But those claiming it has been all evil sound as silly as those claiming it has been all good.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • End Religion

      i'm laughing so hard i spelled "the" wrong

      December 9, 2012 at 7:12 pm |
    • Damocles

      :)

      December 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • Damocles

      @sara

      I don't thik that all people that follow a religion are evil or bad or wrong. I just try to say that being good or bad does not require a deity.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:16 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Hey you, in the corner, are you running a fever? SMACK!"

      December 9, 2012 at 7:17 pm |
    • Bootyfunk

      @sar
      never said christianity never did anything good - it just doesn't outweigh the bad. not even close. all cults profess love and compassion. david koresh said it was all about love. no cults are healthy. at the end of the day, they tell you to stop thinking for yourself. christianity is a cult, like any other. people are better off thinking for themselves than believing a lie.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm |
    • Damocles

      'Doctor, the patient doesn't seem to be recovering'. 'Really? That's weird, we've been beating him about the face and neck with baseball bats just like the manual says to do. It's a crying shame no one has invented religion yet so we don't have to do this any longer. Ah well, continue.' WHACK WHACK WHACK

      December 9, 2012 at 7:24 pm |
    • mama k

      The key founders were Deistic no doubt. Jefferson's Bible had like eighty-some pages in it. Deism was very popular then and most Deists didn't buy into any of the magic in the Bible; some refuting it altogether. I love this reflection John Adams had on the government's founding:

      The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

      Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.

      (from A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America [1787-1788])

      December 9, 2012 at 7:30 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Damocles, I am laughing so hard at these posts I have tears in my eyes.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:31 pm |
  16. lionlylamb

    “The limitations of quantum thermal dynamics may only be attributed by the heated degradation effects in timed probabilities upon perpetual decaying ratios of certain atoms structuralized accolades of which quantum physics remains allegorically aloof upon and cannot be soundly fathomed via any mathematical physics conveyances which by the way are fraught with faulty mathematical probabilities and unreasoned factual soundings.”

    December 9, 2012 at 5:54 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      LIONLYLAMB explain the faulty mathematics and your solutions?

      December 9, 2012 at 6:18 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      EvolvedDNA,

      How many times are physicists "tweaking" their numerologies and still mathematics is found faulty? Quantum theory should give space a mathematical numeration of more than zero whereby the sheer volume of nothingness becomes a constant of which is now made for being zilch. Nothingness is the force that binds and does bond all things thru gravimetric probabilities now known but is yet unknowably a regarded sound equation due many physicists not wanting to give nothingness a numerical value. I would say that nothingness encompasses everything great in sizes and even the smallest of sizes. I am no mathematician nor quantum physicist but it does not take a rocket scientist to know that nothingness holds all mannerisms of every kind of matter in its nothing embodiment!

      December 9, 2012 at 6:34 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Liony: listen, you really are sounding like an annoying twerp. Do you have anything intelligent to add to the debate? You are spouting an awful lot of BS, and people are rising to the bait. If that's your game, and how you get your jollies, well then – rock on. If, however, you have something meaningful and cogent to say, then please: do so.

      December 9, 2012 at 6:44 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      what is your goal, lamb?

      December 9, 2012 at 6:55 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear,

      Like your name means anything useful to add to conversing thoughts? Cognitive accolades are my specialty and I rise to the occasional challenges to vent and venture forth!

      "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details"-Albert Einstein

      December 9, 2012 at 6:56 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      How old are you, Liony – 12? Did you finish high school? I'm going out on a generous limb and suggesting that English is not your first language?

      Because your ability to communicate clearly and cogently is simply not up to snuff.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
  17. mama k

    During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.

    James Madison delivered that to the Virginia General Assembly in 1785. He was furious over feuding Christian sects in his home state, including his fellow Episcopalians. He would go on to become the chief architect of the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights which would, in turn, become several of the Constitutional Amendments. He would also go on to become the 4th POTUS where he would veto two bills that he believed would violate the separation of church and state.

    In a calmer, more reflective tone years later, Madison expressed satisfaction that the idea of separation of church and state that he promoted and built into the 1st Amendment allowed those with different beliefs to flourish:

    Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.

    The Civil Govt, tho' bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success, Whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood, & the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State.

    (from letters to Edward Livingston and Robert Walsh)

    Our most recent Constitutional Amendment, number 27, adopted in 1992, which prohibits any law that increases or decreases the salary of members of the Congress from taking effect until the start of the next set of terms of office for Representatives, was first introduced by James Madison in 1789.

    December 9, 2012 at 5:46 pm |
    • Michelle Canista

      Logic? Logic! And from our founding fathers, no less!

      December 9, 2012 at 5:58 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      mama k,

      It may be safe to say the churches made by men's own hands is not the religious churches truisms for the real churches are of life's embodiments. Paganism is more righteous than any churches built to posses their flocks' unknowledgeable folding visual sightedness of the envisioned atypical sightless crops who no not how to live without leaning upon the crux.

      December 9, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      Liony – getting really tiresome

      December 9, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
  18. right4life

    Their words would have more impact if they were deities. I would claim religion, specifically Christianity, has been a force for good.

    December 9, 2012 at 5:45 pm |
    • Damocles

      I would claim that people have been a force for good and evil. A deity is not required for either.

      December 9, 2012 at 5:48 pm |
    • Michelle Canista

      Yes, Christianity uses force really good.

      December 9, 2012 at 6:00 pm |
    • Damocles

      @MC

      Nice.

      December 9, 2012 at 6:03 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      A force of good? Sure- like burning all of those nasty witches? right, right, right – good.

      December 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm |
    • End Religion

      "I would claim religion, specifically Christianity, has been a force for good"

      You would claim it except for what?

      December 9, 2012 at 7:14 pm |
    • tallulah13

      You can claim anything you want, but history disagrees with you.

      December 9, 2012 at 7:36 pm |
  19. Rev Dr Felix Nwosu

    BEFORE I WAS IN GOD TEAM BUT WAS NOT PLAYINY FOR HIM, BUT NOW YOUR ARE A WONDERFUL STRIKE AND A COACH AT THE SAME TIME FOR GOD NOW. BRAVO SIR.KEEP THE SPIRIT MOVING HIGHER AND HIGHER.

    December 9, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • Heaven's Bad Scent and pewey stinky letter carrier.

      Like that makes sense, Felix. The man is unqualified. Why is it any idiot can put out a shingle and claim to be a "preacher" ? The barriers to entry are extremely low. obviously.

      December 9, 2012 at 5:52 pm |
  20. Nietodarwin

    If Atheism is a religion, then health is a disease!
    Clark Adams

    I say quite deliberately that the Christian religion, as organized in its churches, has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world.
    Bertrand Russell

    Religion. It`s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion.
    Charlie Chaplin

    December 9, 2012 at 5:22 pm |
    • rob

      i knew thered be some atheist somewhere who just cldnt leave it alone ....

      December 9, 2012 at 5:51 pm |
    • Born again damascus style

      we need to pray for him

      December 9, 2012 at 6:17 pm |
    • Attack of the 50 Foot Magical Underwear

      @ born – because prayer has been proven time and time again to be very effective, right?

      December 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm |
    • will

      goofy

      December 9, 2012 at 6:49 pm |
    • tony

      Listen to the truth. The real one, not the garbage in the bible.

      December 9, 2012 at 8:10 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke and Eric Marrapodi with daily contributions from CNN's worldwide newsgathering team.