By Tom Foreman and Eric Marrapodi, CNN
Follow @TomForemanCNN Follow @EricCNNBelief
Charlotte, North Carolina (CNN)—Joe Gibbs moves through pit row at Dover International Speedway with purpose. On this clear day he has three NASCAR teams competing under the banner of Joe Gibbs Racing. The NFL coach and Hall of Fame legend barks encouragement as his teams gather in their fire suits in front of racks of tools.
“We’re due one today! Let’s go!”
Then the team members put their hands together at the center of a circle, Gibbs slaps his on top with the sun catching his Super Bowl ring, and bows his head in a sudden moment of calm before the high-octane storm. “Father thank you for this day,” he begins to pray.
The white hair under his logo covered ball cap is an oddity here. The pits of NASCAR are a young man’s world. Top speed, quick reflexes and raw power are prized.
The drivers are the captains of the cars, but speed and precision of their pit crews – leaping over walls, changing tires and filling gas tanks – is often the difference between winning and loosing.
So what is the 72-year-old Gibbs, well past retirement age, doing amid the chaos and thundering noise?
The same thing Gibbs has always done: He's calling the shots.
“To me, life is so exciting. To me, life is always trying to beat someone in something competitive. It's kinda been my whole life," Gibbs explains while sitting in the sprawling Joe Gibbs Racing Complex in Charlotte, North Carolina, after a recent race.
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He sips on a large green tea, nursing a sore throat he claims is from allergies but is more likely from all the hollering over the racing weekend. Dressed in a polo shirt tucked into khakis, he is fit and trim, likely in better shape than most men half his age. He says he’s as excited now about all he is doing as he was when he was young.
"I really think I am,” he says with a wide, convincing grin.
The rise of Joe Gibbs
Gibbs' rise to sports superstardom began in the 1980s, when he took the struggling Washington Redskins, a team with few stars and even fewer playoff hopes, to not one but three Super Bowl championships, earning the respect of the league and the adoration of fans.
As the cold February rain poured down on fans who came out for the team parade after the 1983 Super Bowl, Gibbs praised their dedication with the enthusiasm that has long made them love him. "There's no other fans in the world who would come out in weather like this except in Washington, D.C.!"
A young mustachioed CNN sports reporter, Keith Olbermann, reported a half-million fans braved the weather for a glimpse of the team, Gibbs and the gleaming Lombardi trophy that day.
“Each one of you has a small piece of this trophy today,” Gibbs yelled into the microphone, pumping the Super Bowl prize for the roaring crowd.
Less than a decade later, he stunned those same fans by turning from football to auto racing, setting up shop in his native North Carolina with admittedly little knowledge of what he was getting into. "I was kind of a novice,” Gibbs said while touring the floor of the JGR workshop. “I was scared to death, you know, 'Can we do this?' "
But Gibbs applied his formula: He worked around the clock, hired great people and relentlessly pushed for perfection. Soon enough the championships started rolling in for his racing teams, too.
Gibbs addresses the media after returning to coach the Redskins
In 2004, Redskins owner Dan Snyder lured Gibbs out of the pits and back to the sidelines. He coached the 'Skins for a four-year stint, helping them get back to the playoffs. But by 2008, Gibbs was ready to go back to racing and he walked away from football for good.
CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
As an owner, Gibbs' teams have won three NASCAR Cup Series Championships. He talks a lot now about being a small business owner. His racing enterprise employs 450 people and includes the 250,000 square foot facility complete with state of the art garages, offices and gym.
That success in racing makes his latest career turn so unusual, because now he is talking perhaps more than ever before about losing.
When winners are losing
"When people look from the outside, they see you've won Super Bowls, NASCAR championships,” he said. “But what people miss when they look from the outside is, they miss the heartaches and the defeats and the mistakes you've made. And my life is full of them."
In a new edition of the New International Version of the Bible, “Game Plan for Life Bible, NIV: Notes by Joe Gibbs,” and a book of biblical devotions, “Game Plan for Life: Chalk Talks,” Gibbs writes frankly about many of his failures, about how just as his coaching career was soaring he was facing private calamities including a bad real estate deal that had him losing $35,000 a month and spiraling into bankruptcy.
"Bad, bad decisions. Really bad," he explains. “I was broke.”
Gibbs on the sidelines during the height of his coaching career, when he says he was facing personal woes.
Years of neglecting his health were followed by the startling news that he had developed diabetes, which he's now had for two decades; years of choosing work over family led to strained relations. Asked if he would do it all again and sacrifice his relationships with his family, he frankly and quickly says, “No. I look at that as probably one of the biggest mistakes I made in life."
A few years ago he said he took his sons out to out dinner and told them, “Don’t do what I did.”
“I could have organized that a different way. I could have found a way to spend more time with them and I think that’ll be one of the things I really second guess … at the end of my life.”
Finding his faith again
Gibbs says he found comfort amid the turmoil in a renewal of his faith. A life-long Baptist, Gibbs says he’s not fond of denominational distinctions and says he and his wife have always gravitated toward, “Bible-believing churches.”
He became a Christian at a young age, “I made that decision when I was 9 but I spent a part of my life drifting, you know, I was on God’s team but I wasn’t playing for him.”
Church of NASCAR ministers to drivers in a 'life-or-death sport'
He says spiritual mentors like a Sunday school teacher in Fayetteville, Arkansas, and some of his Redskins players helped him get back on track with a deeper, more meaningful Christian faith even while the struggles were at their worst.
“Part of playing the game of life is you’re going to have some losses,” he is fond of saying.
That is why he is sharing his private trials in this public way: so others can understand his belief that even winners lose when they lose their way. He regularly tours the country speaking about his faith at Game Plan for Life Outreach Breakfasts, designed so he can present his faith and help men by “getting off the sidelines and into the game,” the organization says.
"I really want to spend the rest of my life getting out this word, you know, 'What is the right way to play the game of life?' You and I are the players, God's our head coach and we're all playing the biggest game of all."
Those struggles have all made him more introspective, more humble and more inclined to leave the office a little earlier for family time. He now has eight grandchildren.
"If I keep God first in my life, if I keep my family and friends as second, and then I keep my occupation third,” he said, “that's when I've found success."
But make no mistake: Joe Gibbs still preaches the gospel of winning and he still thinks that's part of God's plan for him, too.
Ask him how long he’ll keep coming to the office, stomping through the pits and sharing his testimony, "I think you're asking the wrong guy on that one. I think you need to ask the Lord on that one. I think you know at some point I'll probably run out of gas, but man, right now I feel like I've still got a full tank. I'm still going."
wow, what a wasted life...dedicated to a trivial sport, a retarded pastime and a lie.
But something drove you to read or glance over the article and post a message. Maybe your conscience is bugging you.
By the way, how did man acquire a conscience?
We adapted over time. We evolved.
Morality does not come from a god.
Ethics are a social contract by and for humans.
We are selfish creatures by nature, yet our survival depends on cooperation. In order to balance these two conflicting instincts, mankind has had to develop rules that allow room for both.
These rules are not the same for all communities – hence we've had so many different types of religion and government throughout history.
Religion binds communities together by giving a common frame of reference. Shared fears (like divine retribution), hopes (like going to heaven) and rituals allow the instinct for self preservation to extend beyond one's self and immediate family.
This is why the great majority of evolutionary biologists find no conflict between religion and science – as long as religion is recognized solely as a social adaptation.
"Suffering is the sole source of consciousness" – Feodor Dostoevsky
acheptler, he doesn't think he is wasting his life. I know I'm not wasting my life. Why do you hate Christians so much? And ywe should have leaders like you?
I think Gibbs is a good person who knows how to win, but he doesn't give himself enough credit for his success. God had nothing to do with his life of success. He worked hard, had a natural drive to be successful and made choices that allowed him to win. That is all anybody has to work with. I think Gibbs is thinking about his mortality and thinks he should talk up the God card just in case there is a God and heaven above. Sad really.
It is amazing how many people who do not believe in God go out of their way to click in the religious or faith articles and stereotype and bully those who have faith. They do not even mention anything about the person who is mentioned in the article, they just trash talk. It is if I hated sports articles and made the effort to click every sports article and then comment and bully those who enjoy their sports. I wonder how many of those bullies have taken the time to read the bible. If you want to learn about religion, read the bible and go to a church. If you don;t care about faith/religion, go and bully someone else.
It is because so many of us have read the Bible that we are atheists.I understand that the truth is disturbing to you, but give reality a try, it is great!
Oh and KatMat, lay off the sports man. That shit ain't cool.
Remove the faith blinders and read the Bible again for the first time.
The problem, KatMat, is that religion has inundated the culture and politics of this nation. I have had people preach at me from street corners and my television (which is easy enough to mute or change channels), have had printed religious propaganda shoved into my hand or my mail box, and have even had people knock on my door to share their "good news". I have heard believers den.igrate my friends because of their natural se.xual orientation, and have heard politicians try to legislate discrimination against women and gays based on their religion.
Believers seem to think that these things are welcome (or perhaps they just don't care if they're not welcome) and at the same time they think that their religion should never be criticized, despite the fact that their isn't a single shred of evidence to support the existence of any god.
Fortunately, freedom of speech is protected by the Consti.tution. What that means is that my right to criticize your religion is just as protected as your right to practice your religion.
And by the way: I am very familiar with christianity. I just can't find a single reason to believe that your god (or any god) exists or that Christ is the son of that god.
@KatMat: your analogy would begin approaching realism if:
– during the pledge of allegiance kids were forced to say "one nation under The Orioles"
– our nation's currency said "In Dallas Cowboys We Trust"
– if millions were slaughtered, tortured and burned to death because they weren't fans of The Pittsburgh Penguins
– if NASCAR fans endlessly attempted to have Intelligent Car Driving taught beside Evolution in science class as a possible explanation for how mankind developed
– if "the 5 D's" of Dodgeball (Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive, Dodge) were constantly attempted to be made into law so everyone would live by the same ridiculous notions, even if those notions knowingly discriminate
– if nutters constantly claimed America was founded on the principles of Darts, even though our country SPECIFICALLY calls for a separation between Darts and State because the founders knew the inherent dangers of Darts becoming government instead of staying in the realm of sport where it belongs
I had a “good christian upbringing ™ “ and was a devoted Christian until mid-adolescents. I know your bible, I have attended your church and I have seen the true heart of Christianity, rotten, black and evil. I do my best to warn people about the sweet smelling, pretty veneer that Christians use to hide their true intentions, behaviors and beliefs.
But I do care about faith/religion
You might be the most miserable person in this discussion. If you did trust Christ as your savior, you realize you're going to be spending your eternity with people you despise. Cheer up, it beats the alternative.
Maybe as God's word says he is chastising you.
Which alternative is that Right4Life?
If someone you love left you and you wanted them back, wouldn't you send people out to stand on street corners and proclaim " Someone is looking for you; the one who loves you!" If someone else said, "stop proclaiming this I don't know who you are talking about", would it matter whether it was illegal or not? No!
right4life "If you did trust Christ as your savior, you realize you're going to be spending your eternity with people you despise. Cheer up, it beats the alternative."
Yes I totally, 100% believed and lived the christian line. Your pathetic threat of damnation is laughable. I don't believe it. You might just as well threaten me UFOs and big foot. And it doesn't even matter if you are right; because the idea of spending the rest of eternity in some celestial mega church is the worst form of damnation I can think of. Your just upset because I've seen through the christian veneer.
B.I.D.C. "I've seen through the christian veneer." This veneer does exhist. It is merely people walking in their own power to do something Jesus already did. There is also a depth to Christianity that goes beyond religion. It is a relationship with God. I grew up with more faith in God than I do have in people, even people in my own Church! This is quite the opposite of what generally happens. I saw God through the witness of his Word. Others see God through the witness of his Church, and decide from there if they believe in God ( a good experience gets a yes vote, and a bad experience gets a no vote). Others cannot rationalise what the Bible is saying at all. It appears to be a mixture of genres to people that don't make sense as a whole. Often Church becomes like a Country Club where one group ignores you and the other groups ignore you too. LOL! What I have been so unfortunate and fortunate to find out is that God loves people, these people and "you people". And so loving them amidst all of their weaknesses, creates a relationship that is very tough and very rewarding.If you want proof outside of the bible that there is a God, look at all of nature. If you want proof that there is a devil, look at people's behaviors. If you want proof that there is a Christ, look at the Church. His perfectness lovliness and acceptableness in imperfect people.
The bible is a book of horror. If you believe the bible, go take the bible quiz at FFRF.org If you don't, go take it so you can help the people caught up in the sick delusion of religion. Religion is the OPPOSITE of patriotism. It's the reason our test scores are lower than other nations in math and science. I don't know any christians who just vomit all over the table when people are there eating. It's a shame that they can't realize they are having the same effect on society when they go around quoting that old book in the name of a god that doesn't exist. Religion has not survived on love or logic. Xstianity and Islam have survived so long because of MURDER. Many religious people are quite ready to murder atheists to prove their "god" exists, by sending you to "meet" him right away. They don't even feel guilty, it's "god's work" to them. They don't care about the future of the planet, because THEY will be in heaven. SICK SICK SICK
Most people intervene or call the police when we see children being harmed or abused. When thinking people see kids being dragged into church, threatened with "hell" and being harmed psychologically and intellectually, we just shake our heads and think "how sad." We need to change that as a society.
it is a telling fact that, the world over, the vast majority of children follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions.
Get it ?
“Game Plan for Life in the 21st Century:" (for Mr. Gibbs fourth act:)
Only for the new members of this blog:
Putting the kibosh/”google” on all religion in less than ten seconds: Priceless !!!
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated/reborn Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man
"As far as one knows or can tell" Only because you don't "allow" the Bible to be used as evidence. If you can't get around the Bible than what you are saying is useless. People believe the Bible is authoritative because:
1. 40 writers who had the same experience, with the same God, over a 1600 year period.
2. The accuracy of the manuscripts which have been handed down for the last 2800 years, Isaiah being the oldest known complete copy at 2100 years old.)
3.Witnesses in abundance in these accounts, providing multiple perspectives of events (the hanging of Judas).
4. Geneaologies dating from Adam to Jesus; real people. The Bible does not intend for you to believe it is anything else, but real.
5.Archeaology. Plenty of archeaological finds have supported Biblical claims (i.e Sodom is believed to be found, and it was destroyed by fire)
1. 40 fictional accounts from zealots. Nothing more.
2. Accuracy? Laughable!
3. Not one single reliable person. Even if they were eyewitnesses, which they weren't, their testimony as such is unreliable.
4. Neither Adam nor Jesus ever existed. Fraudulent "genealogies," just like the entirety of the bible.
5. Just because a city existed and was destroyed by fire, it doesn't lend the tiniest bit of evidence to the existence of a god. And wasn't Sodom destroyed by meteors, not fire?
o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication– and reviews of each docu-ment.
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 2 John
90-120 3 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 2 Timothy
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
– "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
So you are stuck understanding all of the information? Distinctions is the next step. "Scripture interprets scripture", so it is very easy to distinguish between what is the Word of God and what is not. This is not hard to understand, Your list becomes less confusing when you go to the next level of understanding. You are merely standing deep in the mud with a rope at your side, yelling "this doesn't make any sense!" Grab the rope!
All the references noted above were read and were understood. One result the followin prayer:
The Apostles' Creed 2012 (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
(References used are available upon request.)
All the references noted above were read and were understood. One result the following prayer:
The incredibly far-fetched postings here by the self-proclaimed religious folks are likely causing far more Americans to question their "faith" and beliefs" than anything we atheists could do on our own. :)
Which postings would that be?
Anything by Bill Deacon.
if people are really going to live by the bible then they should practice what it preaches like. if someone takes the lord name is vain the consequence is death, leviticus 24:16 punishment for cursing ones father or mother , death exodus 21:17 among countless of other moral rules we are supposed to follow , and then they wonder why religion causes so many wars , its the only thing that can teach us to lose our humanity in favor of our selfishishness
That's right g0dammit!
Be ever so kind to others’ words if one so can do this season of rent and Lent homages bargaining days. Love, Peace and make fondness farewells one and all wherever one is to be found here or even over there and make friendships rather than showing unfriendly ways and means under one’s belts. Peace is seldom the fondness yet is always wantonness and Love is the treasures for all to take leavened umbrages upon without flailing one’s wordage toward indecent measures.
keep going, I am listening
How did you did you do with the parting the red sea question earlier? If you want to dish out rubbish, you'd better be prepared to justify it, without just quoting more rubbish.
Humble yourself and ask Jesus for forgiveness. Jesus told us he would give you reprobate minds. The parting of the red sea has been traced back to my couch but I flipped the cushion. After their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.
LOL :D !!!!
Haven't seen one of those posts in awhile.
That was a good one.
Take care bro...
Hey realpeace, I haven't seen YOU in a long time. (do you have a new handle?) I am posting primarily as Apple Bush.
Ha! Atheists are just living off the capital of our Judeao/Christian society and are damned lucky. They are for the most part uneducated, raised wrongly and ungrateful. They are going too far with their attacks on people of faith and our society in general. Atheism/communism has murdered more people in the 20th century than ALL so called wars of religion. Those are the facts.
Atheists will fall for anything, because they stand for nothing. Sad.
The more you fear us the better. XD
You want to spread the fear of a war to the masses. Go ahead. We'll kill ya religious t-w-a-t-s in all the mediums.
What a crock. Read the posts on here. You'll find those from the fundies to be the most poorly written. You'll see that they make statements that their beliefs are facts they can prove, when they cannot do so.
You have to be another poe.
religion and the worship of god(s) is a filthy perverted disease of the mind
Lol. What an absurd theory.
You are insulting every new -born baby in the World. They are all born atheists.
The more educated the person, the less likely that they are religious. You are just a victim of the child abuse that is religion, you were brainwashed with it as a child. I was too, but education "saved" me, and I became an atheist. Hitler was a catholic and an altar boy, so your war argument doesn't wash. We are NOT a christian nation, we are secular. "Under god" in the pledge and "In god We Trust" on money were added in the 1950's. You can get educated, for free, by going to a library. There is help out there for you.
"A man`s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
@ed: in all your assertions there isn't one fact. We merely present evidence while you present fervent belief as fact, then the reader decides. It gets easier everyday for the entire world to realize what a plague religion is. You are a part of the problem, Eddie.
So in essence, all atheists are uneducated, unwashed communists, and all christians are highly educated and always correct. According to whom? I an neither christian, nor atheist. I am a Democrat, not a communist. And you seem to be one of the idiots out there who are convinced that anything that isn't in line with your specific beliefs is not only wrong, but condemned to the fiery pits of h.e.l.l for not being "right."
"Without religion, we'd have good people doing good things, and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Stephen Weinburg
It is obvious you have not researched your comments and instead have repeated the religious talking points that you are given. All of your statements are incorrect and can be easily shown false with simple google searches to respected sites.
Proof there is no God: Mantei Teo didn't win the Heisman.
sEttled, even. I'm a terrible typist.
So how did Tebow win twice?
Gibbs is talking more about losing these days b/c rather than prepare obsessively and have his people prepared to execute, he leaves it "in God's hands". Here's a hint. There IS NO God. That's why your new "game plan" fails Coach. Go back to running that inside counter handoff you used to have the Skins run back in the day; you'll have more success than via prayer.
I'm also flagging all comments that approve use a religious passage on the basis of being intellectually couched on a fabrication. I assume I'm not the only one who does that, right?
@Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Two recent studies released almost simultaneously provide more hard evidence that religion is slowly losing its grip on humanity, even in the United States.
I guess the author of The Bible just got lucky with that prophecy too, right?
@was blind, but now I see
There is no such thing as prophecy, so your question lacks a foundation.
King James Version
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
You're meritless opinion lacks a foundation.
Of course you think there is no prophecy, You once were blind, and stayed that way.
Here's a prophetic event that effects you:
Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
article the nones won the election
Why do you say that my opinion is meritless and lacks a foundation. Are you hiding some proof that people can tell the future? That prophesies are real? I am not aware of any evidence so I will stand by my "meritless" opinion.
You stupid git, the prophesies you attribute to a god are just as likely to be true as those found in a fortune cookie. Anyone can look at the bible and see whatever meaning he chooses to see.
"Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;"
How is that prophetic?
Unless you have the fountain of youth, you're going to die, agree?
The Bible says we will all have to give an account to God for the life we lived,every law of his that we have broken will be revealed. Since God is holy and hates all sin/disobedience either you or Christ gets punished. Bowing down is paying homage to the King of Kings.
But that isn't a prophecy,
Right4; what you quoted was not a prophecy at all, but rather a command.
right4life: you do not speak for god. i do not speak for god. the iron age sheep molesters who wrote the bible do not speak for god, nor do those who translated and edited it. get over yourself
Where are the books expounding on the joy of athiesm, the changed lives, the improved relationships, the outpouring of love, the new hope? I see and work with people who were athiests or agnostics, came to faith in God and for the first time in thier lives found hope, joy and solutions to long standing issues in thier lives. I am one who went from a young person with faith to one who didnt believe in God and discovered a finally life with God was far richer than anything I could have imagined as a non believer. And with a BS in Geology, MS in Engineering and MBA from a top school I am not easily swayed without evidence. An instantaneous resolution of a deep personal issue was all the evidence I needed to trust God. Trust me, as athiests you are missing out on a richness and love that is beyond your human experience or understanding. I know I was one and have lived both ways. How many of you can say the same?
I'm not religious and am very happy, I'm just not compelled to brag about it is all.
Atheism is about being free to see the world as it really is, without the rose-colored glasses of faith, without believing in a supernatural grandpa in the sky. Being an athiest is about being an adult, and facing the real world, warts and all. There is joy in believing in Santa Claus, but he isn't real. There is joy in belieivng in gods, but they aren't real.
You mean the books that say "We live in reality"? We're all busy living in reality. Try it sometime.
a cursory look at amazon will show you there are a great number of books about atheism spanning a wide range of topics under that heading.
it's great that you're educated – but it doesn't mean much. sir isaac newton worked hard at alchemy and he believed in an imaginary man in the sky.
just goes to show – a person can be smart enough to invent the calculus and write lucid books about optics – all the while maintaining delusional religious beliefs.
also fyi: atheists can be just as happy or unhappy as xians or hindus or buddhists or scientologists or muslims.
Befree, you have none of the degrees you have lied about. If you weren't easily swayed without evidence you wouldn't be religious. You realize 'bearing false witness' is a sin, right? Better pack your asbestos swim trunks!
If you depend on religion to make you happy or keep you from doing bad things then you have larger issues than beliving in fairy tales.
@Befree, If your question were a true question and not a statement of fact presented as a question to convince people of your perspective, I'm sure you could find the books you're looking for. There are many books from Eastern to Western secular philosophy that would provide as much satisfaction in your daily life without needing to rely on an invisible superfriend to give your existence meaning.
Rejecting god is not the same thing as letting go of the idea of god. I grew up in a christian home. It wasn't a rejection of god that gave me peace. I tried that for 10 years and it was miserable. It was when I truly saw the fantasy I was subscribing to for what it was, that I was finally able to let go of god and find the peace and joy I had been relying on external addictions like god to provide for me. I hope one day you will find that freedom too. Peace.
In fairness, Bob Jones University, Trinity Christian College, Pensacola Christian College and Liberty University are all accredited schools that could provide that kind of degree.
Really, Befree? I found the same thing with a handful of magic mushrooms
The big bang and evolution are lies against Jesus’ truth to cause doubt, creating confusion. Satan's lies are built on quick sand foundation. I keep the flea shampoo in the shower next to the conditioner. What part of Jesus' truth is clarity and satan's lies are confusion do you not comprehend?
Sigh. So assertive, yet so lacking in evidence. God is just pretend.
It is just like atheists to step over His seeds that get blown by the wind to find their way to fertile grounds. Typical of swines trampling. I have been married three times but my in-laws haven't changed. It's obsessive compulsion to grab at any straw to give a reason not to learn or understand.
If you lie down with dogs, secular s, you get up with filthy fleas, Jesus, denier of truth absolute GOD, is lie, Islam for humanity and peace
Give me evidence that people who "convert" to athiesm have improved and changed in the same way that Christian converts do. Where are the books expounding on the joy of athiesm, the changed lives, the improved relationships, the outpouring of love, the new hope? I see and work with people who were athiests or agnostics, came to faith in God and for the first time in thier lives found hope, joy and solutions to long standing issues in thier lives. I am one who went from a young person with faith to one who didnt believe in God and discovered a finally life with God was far richer than anything I could have imagined as a non believer. And with a BS in Geology, MS in Engineering and MBA from a top school I am not easily swayed without evidence. An instantaneous resolution of a deep personal issue was all the evidence I needed to trust God. Trust me, as athiests you are missing out on a richness and love that is beyond your human experience or understanding. I know I was one and have lived both ways. How many of you can say the same?
"...I am not easily swayed without evidence"
LOL – Ok where is your evidence for God. Let's get this party started.
Oh, and I do believe you have BS, plenty ot it.
I'm not anti-christ, but I'm not religious either. That's all. I know some people who got to church because they "need" to and I know some who aren't even religious at all, but go to cure their loneliness. I'm not lonely and I give to charities of my choice. Do what makes you feel better. If you want to attend church, then so be it, but you shouldn't assume that the rest of us are over here missing out or something. It's just not so.
If you need a crutch, use it. Just don't presume that other people need one. How arrogant to believe that only christians have a meaningful life.
For Apple Bush
Here's a prophetic statement from someone you have faith in;
"To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.
Charles Darwin, "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life," 1859, p. 155.
So, what else might have Darwin gotten wrong?
Who "converts" to atheism, Be? Nobody I know has ever "converted" to it. Most people simply come to the conclusion that the religious beliefs we were taught as children don't square with reality.
I'm happy in my life; I didn't suddenly become happier when I stopped believing in a magic man. I didn't become unhappier either.
I don't attempt to tell anyone else not to believe; I know many wonderful people who are Christians. I simply don't want them pretending that their beliefs are facts and that my life should be run according to them. I don't want them deciding that their bible is the law and that what they see as right and wrong is absolute.
wrong for life: if you think your god made the eye, why didn't he do a better job of it? Why is it that we need corrective lenses? Why do we need glasses and contact lenses?
ROOOAAARRRR!!!!! .... What was that? One of his cars? Nope.... That was the last shred of respect I had for him speeding away.
I'm laughing an awful lot here; fine work.
"Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me."
What I find very interesting is how many people are commenting and most likely have never read his book(s). His first book was a collection of many scholars providing historical back ground on the bible, God, Jesus. Yes he adds in his own struggles that he experiences and how his own belief brings him closer to his family, friends and his belief in God. How is this a bad thing that people decide to throw stones at? He admits mistakes and how he would do things differently. He also doesn't try and split hairs between different denominations. So is anyone going to claim that the 10 commandments are wrong, bad, should not be followed regardless of your religion? We are all connected one way or another. Stop throwing stones....
Why are you surprised? They don't want to know the Truth. Jesus is The Truth. The Anti-Christ spirit that is currently in control of them will not allow it.
Be of good cheer fellow believers, they hated Christ they're going to hate us. And they should.
I'm not throwing stones. I simply don't want your religion in government or in the public schools or in my doctor's office. You are welcome to believe what you want. You're not welcome to try to force me to live by your beliefs or to deny me the legal rights I have because you don't approve of the behaviors they permit. Mind your own business. Stay out of mine.
As a Christian I would say his principles, ideas of right and wrong are the best for mankind, He does love us and has the best interest at heart for everyone. Christmas time is the perfect season to tell others of Gods love for us, thru his son.
Would you agree society needs to have laws, rules and regulations?
Beware of those who capitalize the word "truth"
right4life illustrates the vaunted Christian Persecution Complex......
"we're suffering for jeebus....."
"As a Christian I would say his principles, ideas of right and wrong are the best for mankind"
You are free to say whatever you wish. To take those principles and attribute them to (your) god is absurd.
To legislate all of them is even more so
@ was blind (and still is), The real truth about jee-sus is that the man/god/son-of-himself, never existed. Real truth. Real fact. Deal with it, your religion as make believe.
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