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My Take: It’s time for evangelicals to speak up about guns
December 28th, 2012
10:00 PM ET

My Take: It’s time for evangelicals to speak up about guns

Editor’s note: Daniel Darling is a pastor, author and speaker in the Chicago area. His latest book is "Real: Owning Your Christian Faith." He tweets at @dandarling.

By Daniel Darling, Special to CNN

(CNN) – The Bible doesn’t clearly express an opinion on the possession of guns, but many evangelicals defend the unlimited distribution of firearms with the same fervor that they defend biblical orthodoxy. According to a recent Public Religion Research Institute survey, 8% of white evangelical Protestants favor tighter gun laws.

But in the wake of yet another deadly school shooting, it’s time for evangelicals to contribute to the national discussion beyond: “It’s not guns that kill people, it’s people that kill people.”

In fairness to gun enthusiasts, no reasonable observer could pin the blame for the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting solely on the lack of effective gun laws. Even President Barack Obama and other influential voices have called for a balanced approach that looks not only at guns but also at mental illness, violent video games and a culture of fatherlessness that produces young troubled men. And the research about the effectiveness of gun controls laws seems mixed at best.

Still evangelicals should not defend the use, proliferation and availability of assault weapons with as much vigor as they defend their faith. In spite of some who insist the Second Amendment is drawn from the Bible, there is no clear-cut Christian position on gun control.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

On one level, the Bible affirms the government’s first and most basic job to protect its citizens, especially the most vulnerable, our children. Romans 13 reminds us that government is “God’s servant for our good.” The Bible also gives high priority to the welfare of children.

At times, the Bible seems to affirm the right to self-defense. Even when Jesus famously told Peter to put down his sword during Jesus’ arrest in the Garden of Gethsemane, he didn’t tell Peter to destroy the sword but put it in its rightful place.

On the other hand, the Scripture is pretty clear that Christians should not only oppose violence but should be advocates for the sanctity of human life. This doesn’t simply apply to abortion but to any unlawful taking of human life. Advocating for life also includes taking care of children's and others' well-being after they are born. Each life is created in the image of God; therefore, death is the work of the evil one (1 John 3:15). The Apostle Paul labels death God’s final enemy. Christians are also called to be “peacemakers” and not lovers of violence.

Given the lack of a straightforward biblical imperative for or against guns, faithful followers of Christ should be more flexible in their opinions on this issue.

Why can’t we support sensible restrictions, such as a ban on military-style combat weapons? These weapons seem to serve no purpose other than the glorification of violence. If we take seriously the command to protect our children, we’ll avoid the risk of these weapons getting into the hands of unstable people. Sure, a ban won’t eliminate all weapons, especially those purchased illegally, but it may reduce the chance of another Sandy Hook massacre.

Massacre of children leaves many asking, 'Where’s God?'

We also should also advocate making it harder for people to acquire guns, even sensible weapons purchased for self-defense or hunting. Gun ownership should be a privilege earned by good behavior and conferred only on the most trustworthy of our citizens. I think we can do this without disrespecting the Second Amendment, which besides guaranteeing the right to bear arms calls for this right to be “well-regulated.” As blogger Marty Duren says, “While the Second Amendment provides the right to keep and bear (“carry”) arms, it does not necessitate the right to own any armament the mind of man can create.”

New gun laws won’t prevent every future crime, but perhaps a few common-sense regulations would help destroy a culture of violence that so tempts young troubled men.

Some will argue that new restrictions only hurt those who are already law-abiding. This may be so. But as Christians called to care for the common good of our communities, we should be willing to endure the inconvenience if it saves one child from death.  Since 9/11, we have all endured more hassle at the airport to prevent even one terrorist from killing our fellow citizens.

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Followers of Christ know that it is ultimately not the gun that kills, but evil that resides in every human heart. And yet it is precisely this belief in total depravity that might inform our views on gun control. In a fallen world, the most vulnerable among us need protection from those who cannot or will not discern right from wrong. (Ironically, this is the focus of the Christian anti-abortion argument.) Let’s not put instruments of death so close to hands that would do evil.

At the end of the day, living out our faith requires that we do more than simply react in a defensive posture but engage in this important debate. We can protect the cherished right to bear arms in self-defense and still make sure unnecessary and violent weapons are not sold on our store shelves and online and are not accessible by those in our communities who would use them to commit acts of aggression and murder.

Furthermore, an unwillingness to entertain common-sense restrictions casts the evangelical faith in an unnecessarily unfavorable light. It may cause some to think we love our guns more than our neighbors.

There are many things about which Christians should be unyielding; the right to own a killing machine should not be one of them.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Daniel Darling.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Guns

soundoff (2,819 Responses)
  1. Jim

    aaahhh...more egotistical and irrational rantings from John (the one who is so devoid of logic he makes stupid statements like the one above.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      Here is a paradox for you Jim, if only 1% of species exist from the last mass extinction barrier, how can one claim evolution is a means to species?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • dreamer96

      John

      Do you understand every bread of dog came from the wild Wolf?....

      December 29, 2012 at 3:34 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      dream- Where is the new species?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
    • tony

      There is no "means to ", because there is no "great plan". Of all the great galaxy collisions we can now see with telescopes, there is not a whit of evidence of anyone/thing pushing them in a different course from their original paths.

      So Genesis 1:14 is correct. God is clearly showing us he either doesn't exist, or hasn't been by to change anything for the last 13.something Billion years

      December 29, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
  2. John P. Tarver

    Hitler believed that by removing certain tribes of humans from the human race would evolve, as is seen with the English honey bee. Hitler was a believer in evolution and applied Darwin's theory to Europe.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:21 pm |
    • tony

      Unnatural selection isn't evolution. It's breeding for desired characteristics, like race horses and tiny fluffy dogs.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      The English honey bee was in fact Natural Selection and all Hitler did was attempt to replicate that evolution in humans; through intellegent design, such as the horse.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • lawdog1521

      The fact you think evolution was the sole creation of Darwin shows you don't know anything about it. Feel free to spout off about things you know nothing about, I'm sure you've already done it for a lifetime.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • tony

      But so many religious folk believe that selective breeding for farm animals, horses, dogs, cage birds, and so on, works, or why would they do it???

      December 29, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      Law- The fact that things change slowly over time is something mankind has known since Jacob stole his fater in law's sheep. Evolution was well known before Darwin wrote his original basis sientific basis for racism; that he attempted to publish in 1853. After adding an ant study to his work, Darwin was able to publish his work as "science", even though he invents the "scientific method" while ingnoring the already existing Scientific Method created by Newton.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
    • TruthPrevails :-)

      John P: That wasn't evolution regardless of how your small mind may think. What Hitler did was MURDER...he tried to remove an entire group of people by KILLING them. Evolution does not involve murder of any form.

      "Evolution is defined as a developmental process in which an organ or organism becomes more and more complex by differentiation of its parts; a continuous and progressive change according to certain laws and by means of resident forces."

      That is not definitive of Hitler's diseased mind believing all Jews needed to be removed from the human race.

      December 29, 2012 at 4:07 pm |
  3. tony

    I don't think any Evangelical will care what any other Evangelical says. They are already convinced that Christians should be armed to the teeth, gun toting, healthcare and great wealth not sharing, contraception denying, opposites of Jesus's Good Samaritan.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Jim

      now there (above) is some childish and lying ranting...

      Following the logic used, ALL atheists must be homicidal and egotistical maniacs like Stalin and Castro..

      December 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm |
    • tony

      Just lumping together what so many Evangelical Tea Party Candidates said last year. Read the news archives and check for yourself.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
  4. John P. Tarver

    Hitler was an Evolutionist: the notional hypothesis that evolution is a means to species; yet only 1% of species exist from the last mass extinction barrier.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
  5. Scholar

    On our street, there is a potential situation.

    The alcoholic husband flew off to PA after hammering down his front door when coming home drunk and finding he had forgotten his keys. After he left, the wife got a court order restraining the husband and also filed for divorce and was then served by the property owner with eviction notice due to the couple trashing the rental property.

    We found out that the husband owns 5 hand guns.

    So, the husband will return to find his wife gone, his old trailer and other vehicles in the rear yard gone, sold for scrap by his wife, everything in the house sold at a yard sale, other than the handguns, and that he's evicted and being divorced.

    What to do, what to do?

    Am thinking that a road trip to EYW might be prudent.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • oki

      eyw?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • Snotty Conservative

      You liberals in the Northeast sure do have a lot of immoral lunatics with guns. Perhaps you should dump your unuseful gun laws and put God back into your communities instead?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
  6. Yakobi

    Before these hypocrites start spouting off against guns, perhaps they should first address all the violence and murder in their holy book done in their god's name.

    December 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Jim

      Right, not a tired and cliche argument at all.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:05 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      The failure of Saul to kill the King and Queen that God had commanded killed shows up in their history again with the story of Esther and again at the Holocaust. The primary danger to the two tribes of Israel has been the failure to kill in God's name.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
  7. Kenman

    I've replied to Jay's comment four times or more, why won't you post it?

    December 29, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • niknak

      Because it must have been drivel.
      CNN's drivel filter works really well on fundie drivel.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • The Helper

      Because you unkowingly typed a combination of letters that added up to a filtered naughty word. Their filter is pretty dumb, and everyone loses their posts from time to time.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
  8. myVu

    Evangelicals speak up against evil everyday but you neither hear it or want to receive it, so now you want them to speak out against "just" guns....I'm afraid it doesn't work that way sir. You either want the WHOLE truth or no truth at all. But you won't receive the truth so what exactly is it that you want evangelicals to say!!???

    December 29, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Renegatus

      LMFAO !!! :D

      Peace...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
  9. Renegatus

    If Evangelicals didn't have guns they wouldn't have been able to control the T-Rex 8,000 years ago. It's really too bad they couldn't get a couple onto the ark.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Kenman

      They WERE on the Ark if they lived then.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • niknak

      No they weren't Kendoll.
      Nothing was on the ark as the ark is fiction.
      There is no evidence of any great flood. It is all make believe and in your head.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:58 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Renegatus

      LMFAO !!!!!!!!!:D

      Peace...

      December 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      From the global geological record we know that species occur rapidly (within a single generation) following a mass extinction, with a rapid die off in species until the die off slows to now at 1% of species from last mass extinction. The flood does not produce new species, as it is not an era barrier; at least as described in Genesis.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Jim

      And to think, maybe the Cambrian Explosion was really, really a much longer time period than science thinks it was...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:28 pm |
    • Reasonable Christian

      niknak, you realize that fossils are found on mountaintops and that much of the earth was underwater at some point in history?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
    • therealpeace2all

      @Jim

      Hi -Jim...

      You Said: " And to think, ***maybe*** the Cambrian Explosion was really, really a much longer time period than science thinks it was..."

      I'm curious as to what you are attempting to infer from your **maybe** comment ?

      Peace...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:55 pm |
  10. Patriot

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencehunter/2012/12/28/gun-control-tramples-on-the-certain-virtues-of-a-heavily-armed-citizenry/

    December 29, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
  11. Kenman

    CNN if you "welcome" discussion as it says below, why aren't you posting mine; it is courteous.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • niknak

      Because you post drivel, and it has a drivel filter.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:59 pm |
  12. albie

    Evangelicals represent everything that is wrong with this country and the world – religion is the root of all strife and hate

    December 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • niknak

      Amen to that.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • Jim

      Yeah....in the name of evolving mankind past religion, the atheists killed over 100 million in the past 100 years. It appears that CNN's 'drivel-meter' was not working in your post....

      December 29, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • niknak

      Hey Jimbo, do you have any links to your claim that 100 million people were killed by atheists?
      Or is this just your xtian drivel rearing it's ugly head again?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Jim (a different Jim)

      Yet another "Religion Sucks!" post. We get it already. Your hatred for religion drives you to get up in the morning, turn on your computer, come to CNN belief blog and attempt to lambaste those of faith. Your job for the day is done, don't forget to pat yourself on the back before your tea and crumpets.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
  13. NorthVanCan

    I am a human. I believe the words truth and belief are used incorrectly by religious peoples around the world.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      You are correct: Word = Logos, the spell of creation. Most Christians never learn any of God's secrets, for they do not fear God. (Psalms 25)

      December 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • frank

      The Bible can come in handy if you're out of TP. And the book of Psalms is the most like Charmin, by the way.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • niknak

      Hey Antonio Tarver,
      If god is supposedly love, then why fear it?
      Do you really fear your imaginary friend?
      If so, then why have one?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • John P. Tarver

      frank- Of the millions of bibles air lifted into China over the decades, most were used as rolling papers. To waste good quality tissue paper on your butt identifys you as a royal

      December 29, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
  14. Patriot

    Read this link:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/lawrencehunter/2012/12/28/gun-control-tramples-on-the-certain-virtues-of-a-heavily-armed-citizenry/

    December 29, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      We're past the point where that logic would be applicable.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Patriot

      You're dead wrong.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
    • Jim

      @ Moby,

      Just like in the 90's we were 'past the logic' of basic math in finance?

      The first thing discarded is the basics because we think the basics don't apply and then we find out that all the more complicated theories don't work because the basics never change.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:15 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      You two dipsh!ts might notice that I did not say that the logic was wrong, but no, like all other foaming-at-the-mouth fundamental whackholes, you fly off into a rage when anyone does not agree with every single word and comma of your belief set. Fvck you.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
  15. NIK

    Why is it that among gays, abortion, education, etc, people demonize religious opinion. Now all of a sudden, when religious leaders cry for gun control, they are all of a sudden important to everyone. Seriously?

    December 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • niknak

      Why is it that lilly white fundie all hate on blacks, yet when Tiger Woods comes to their golf course they all want to hang out with him?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Jazzy Jeff

      Visit certain parts of Philly at night and then you tell us. Look at where gun related crime is highest and then you tell us why there's a stereotype. Stereotypes form because there is a large population that acts in a certain way, regardless of the fact that not all of that population act in that way.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:41 pm |
  16. John

    The church has nothing to say about protecting children.. They are a bunch of perverts that protect priests.. They are as bad as the boy scouts... This isn't the time to speak up.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Anthony

      Your logic is rather faulty; a couple corrupt priests do not indict all Christians. Using your logic, all Catholics must be terrorists since a few were in Northern Ireland; Hitler was a Nazi so ALL Germans must then be Nazis; etc.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:52 pm |
    • Jim

      We get it, you hate the church. Please, continue your personal war on religion and stew in your own bitterness.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
    • niknak

      Thats right Jumbo, the dreaded war on religion.
      Is that war like the war on white men?
      Or the war on christmas?

      Be afraid Jumbo, be vary afraid.....

      December 29, 2012 at 3:19 pm |
    • Jim

      Exactly, your facetious comment demonstrates the superfluousness of these types of comments on a belief blog. The kick one must receive from running in and making a comment like that then ducking out is one I'll never understand. It's similar to when my 4 year old runs into the living room, yells "poop" then runs away.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:31 pm |
    • Carol

      niknak, I'm printing your post to give all my black Christian friends the chance to to read your nonsense.

      December 29, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
  17. TheGingerStrikesAgain

    Christian men are against abortions because they kill the innocent. But they are not going to help stop the violence that kills the innocent. The reason? Many men own guns. None own uteruses. Abortion laws don't affect them directly. Gun laws affect a lot of them personally. It isn't about the innocent anymore when it's something they have to sacrifice.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Chad

      that view only works if guns are the ONLY reason for the "violence that kills the innocent.".

      I agree with the author on virtually every point he made, one of which was that your view is to narrow by far.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
  18. Jay

    I am an evangelical Christian who believes we need some restrictions on assault weapons, alongs with many other things such as better care available to persons with mental illness. I had a seminary professor who defined idolatry as "an attempt to guarantee one's future". In an agrarian culture that meant serving a fertility god. Better crops or more children guaranteed a Person's future. In our culture – what do we trust to guarantee our future? The run on purchasing assault rifles in the past two weeks is a clear indication of what we trust to take care of us. The "idol" for many people in this country is guns.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      you make me happy to be a polytheist because it is about assuring a better future, we Idolaters believe the world is not coming to an end and we work toward a better future for all. so I'm happy i worship the sun, but not happy you worship the dead

      you have a negative outlook of the Future, man its not healthy

      lets all make this a better world together

      December 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Carol

      Sam, if you wanted to make a better world, you'd be a practicing Christian Since you are not, you are what is wrong with the world.

      December 29, 2012 at 4:05 pm |
    • the AnViL

      the reality of jebus is EVERY account of jebus was hearsay. not only that, every account of every account of jebus was also hearsay.

      there was most probably never any jebus – or... it is a mishmash of more than one story about more than one person.

      the funniest bit in all of it – are all the parallels between much much older stories about OTHER sons, suns, saviors and goddages....

      maybe you should expand your reading, chadtard....

      as much as i hate to type this – you should try to think outside the very small dark box you're in – and embrace the simple truth.....

      you've been lied to – and you bought it.

      evolve, son. - you're retarding the rest of humanity.

      December 29, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
  19. the AnViL

    those of you who believe in an imaginary man in the sky are delusional – and should never be allowed to purchase or own firearms.

    December 29, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
    • Scott

      Is your name Hitler?

      December 29, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
    • Chad

      What investigation have you done into Christianity that has led you to reject it?

      December 29, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
    • the AnViL

      hitler was not only a vegetarian and a tactical retard – but he was also xian, stupid.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:35 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      you know you maybe right Christians/the mentally ill should not have guns, hell they shouldn't even have a vote

      December 29, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
    • Sam Yaza

      i mean lets think about this they are Children, and they want to stay children for ever so lets start treating them a such. the Children of God are Children; this means no rights

      December 29, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • the AnViL

      chadtard – i know this is beyond your comprehension... but i'm compelled to tell you – there are no gods.

      good luck in all your future endeavors.

      cha cha cha

      December 29, 2012 at 2:38 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Sam Yaza – i could not agree more...

      people who suffer from the god delusion should never be allowed to vote, hold public office, purchase/own firearms – or teach public school.

      tolerance of religious idiocy has to end – and it is.

      zoop!

      December 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • John

      I think it may the number of self-proclaimed Christians he has met.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Scott

      I bet your a racist, too.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • the AnViL

      scott – nope – i'm not racist.

      i am an anti-theist – and oppose the enemies of reason no matter what breed they may be.

      simmer down with your silly ignorant assumptions, chump.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Scott

      A bigot, none the less. Same difference, you and your ilk are what's wrong with people.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
    • Dan

      I agree 100%! Religious nut cases and the mentally disturbed should never be allowed to have any weapon.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • frank

      Maybe Scott has the balls to say something substantive, something besides making guesses about others.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • the AnViL

      scottard – you are confused....

      bigots generally oppose those of different races or ethnic groups.

      i'm no more bigoted than a surgeon might be in relation to a cancerous tumor – or a gardener in relation to weeds.

      religion impoverishes all of humanity. it is predicate on ignorance and promotes bigotry, division, and hate.

      belief in imaginary men in the sky = delusional thinking.

      remember – if you're delusional – you're out of touch with reality.

      evolve, son.

      zing!

      December 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm |
    • Scott

      Frank, are you sure you're talking about me, or Matrix boy, Anvil? I guess it depends on what side you're on. If you're the apex of all generalizing, then we're all in trouble. I point out hate in people, I don't care if they're religious, atheist or polytheist. The hypocrisy of the atheist, though, is parallel to no other. and they're always first to spew their diatribes. Then they spew the same rhetoric with hate and disregard. Matrix boy is probably wishing he took the blue pill.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:06 pm |
    • the AnViL

      scottard – the only person bringing up "hate" is you.

      the hate is inside you – it's plain for everyone to see.

      simmer down, princess... take a nap or something.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm |
    • frank

      Listen to who's calling the kettle black. LMAO. The religious don't spew? OK – I realize I'm talking to the brain-dead.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • Scott

      Frank, then why are you still here yapping? I had Matrix boy pinned for a troll immediately, but are you one, too? It doesn't take a high IQ to be a troll, in fact, it only takes an adolescence mind set.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:14 pm |
    • Chad

      @the AnViL "I"m compelled to tell you – there are no gods."
      @Chad "what investigation have you done into Christianity that has led you to reject it?
      (reposting the earlier question)

      December 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • the AnViL

      scottard – you obviously don't understand bigotry, racism, national socialism – or trolling.

      i wonder how many more times you'll display your ignorance on a national public forum.

      keep up the good work, son!

      December 29, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • the AnViL

      chadtard – there are no gods. no further investigation is needed.

      it negates all the scribblings you consider "scripture".
      :)

      December 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • frank

      Scott – " It doesn't take a high IQ to be a troll, in fact, it only takes an adolescence mind set."

      Yep – and someone who makes blanket statements as you've done proves that.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Chad

      @the AnViL "there are no gods. no further investigation is needed."
      @Chad "so, your logic is:
      1. you know that there are no gods
      2. Christianity claims the God of Israel is real
      3. therefor Christianity is nonsense.

      that about it?

      now, what investigation did you do to come to conclusion #1 (since everything that follows it is predicated on it's truth)?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:42 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Reasons why anyone, Chad included, should reject the bible and christianity:

      1. The bible is a great book of smashed together fairy tales, and that's how it makes sense
      2. The bible is a stupid book if you want to get any "truth" from it.
      3. The bible's god is stupid, contradictory, and too inconsistent to be considered as a possibility.
      4. Christianity is an evolving belief set that cannot be verified by any method whatsoever
      5. One form of christianity based on the bible can be opposite from another form of christianity based on the bible.
      6. Christians can't offer valid reasons why anyone should believe, and if they truly had godly wisdom within them it would be a "nobrainer."
      7. Objectively, the bible is stupid and its god is stupid.
      8. Because the bible is stupid and christians can't make any sense of it, there are no reasons to accept it or its god or christanity.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:45 pm |
    • mama k

      Here's where Chad starts trying to put words in people's mouths. Hmm. where did he get that #1-3 from????

      December 29, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • The Truth

      "@Chad "what investigation have you done into Christianity that has led you to reject it?"

      For myself I have spent 30 years living and breathing the bible reading it daily and even became a full time minister, then after an admitted crisis of faith in my marriage I started doing as much research as I formally did in the bible into all the other forms of faith I had been rejecting and castigating for years from my Christian pulpit. I had been born in the faith, raised in the faith and taught to not even look at other faiths for they were all machinations of the devil. The indoctrination and mind control was well established in me. This is chad's real question: "If you would allow yourself to be indoctrinated like us how could you ever believe there is no God?"

      Once I studied Islam, Bahia (which is more of a mix of many), read the Gita, studied with a JW friend for a few months and listened to a local Buddhist monk, and read many many other religious factions literature I began to see around the edges of organized religion, the faint hint of a sunrise of some larger truth that every religion seemed to hint at but then got caught up in their own self preservation before realizing true enlightenment. And that's when it hit me. Organized religion is truly the giant dark disk in the sky attempting to eclipse the bright sparkling realities of the universe, The Facts, The Truth, Science, Reason and Logic, all in order to survive and self perpetuate and all at humanities expense.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      However, none of those reasons really matter. What matters is the veracity of arguments put forth by the believer.

      The christians BEST arguments on why another person should believe fall flat. They don't "hold water." Because the best arguments FOR the belief can be dismissed, the belief can be dismissed.

      Chad is essentially claiming to have an invisible, undetectable space ship in his garage and cannot offer any good arguments for its existence. Then, when the skeptic disbelieves in the space ship because of the Chad's poor argumentation and the invisible, undetectable nature of the space ship, Chad asks, "What investigation have you done to disbelieve in my invisible and undetectable spaceship which I cannot offer any good arguments for?"

      December 29, 2012 at 3:52 pm |
    • the AnViL

      chadtard – yes – "Christianity" is nonsense.

      and yes – that's about it.

      "now, what investigation did you do to come to conclusion #1 (since everything that follows it is predicated on it's truth)?"

      chadtard – what investigation can be done to prove the existence of gods? the bland fact of the matter is – i don't need to do a thing to disprove the existence of an imaginary man in the sky. there is no evidence of gods. there never has been – and when taken in context – it's clear to anyone with even basic critical thinking skills that gods do not exist. no elohim – no shiva – no ra – no flying spaghetti monster.

      so...

      are you suggesting someone needs to investigate xianity before they can determine it's bunk?

      would you also suggest that someone needs to smoke crack to determine that it isn't good for them?

      are you one of those people that needs to ingest fecal matter in order to determine it is not good or nutritious?

      why don't you cut to the chase there sparky – ya know – instead of trying to play games with the AnViL.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:57 pm |
    • Carol

      the AnViL, Where did you learn that bit of falsehood? Hitler wasn't a practicing Catholic. The man had mental problems along with drug addictions given him by his physician.

      December 29, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • The Truth

      " Hitler wasn't a practicing Catholic." Accept that he was still taking communion and claiming to be Catholic "The man had mental problems along with drug addictions given him by his physician." Sounds like quite a few Catholics I know...

      December 29, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
    • the AnViL

      carol – here is just one quote from adolph hitler: "“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a
      fighter."

      there are many many more.

      go do some homework – google is your friend.

      ploop!

      December 29, 2012 at 4:13 pm |
    • Chad

      @The Truth "...organized religion..."

      =>what about the reality of Jesus Christ? The God of Israel? did you ever believe in either, or were you just participating in religion?

      December 29, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
    • the AnViL

      i mistakenly posted this above... but not to worry – no problem copying and pasting it here....

      the reality of jebus is EVERY account of jebus was hearsay. not only that, every account of every account of jebus was also hearsay.

      there was most probably never any jebus – or... it is a mishmash of more than one story about more than one person.

      the funniest bit in all of it – are all the parallels between much much older stories about OTHER sons, suns, saviors and goddages....

      maybe you should expand your reading, chadtard....

      as much as i hate to type this – you should try to think outside the very small dark box you're in – and embrace the simple truth.....

      you've been lied to – and you bought it.

      evolve, son. – you're retarding the rest of humanity.

      December 29, 2012 at 6:06 pm |
  20. Just call me Lucifer

    Christians have many directives in the holy book of bull to kill. Here's one:

    One who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death; the whole congregation shall stone the blasphemer. Aliens as well as citizens, when they blaspheme the Name, shall be put to death. (NRSV)

    Leviticus 24:16

    December 29, 2012 at 2:23 pm |
    • GODLESS GOD

      do I know you?

      December 29, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
    • Jeff

      Let's compare the NRSV version with the KJV. No where does the KJV say aliens, but says strangers.

      Leviticus 24:16   And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, [and] all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name [of the LORD], shall be put to death.

      We already know the Jews of the time, did not obey God. Why else do you think you nonbelievers are still around.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Jeff

      Do you honestly believe that if all the non-believers were killed, there'd "be no more around" for all the ages to come? That's stupid. No wonder you're a bible thumper.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:43 pm |
    • Jeff

      By the way Just call me Lucifer, the OT was written to the Jews only. The Jews were to teach God's truth to the world. Grace was opened up to all others when Jesus died on the cross. You'd know his truth if you read the Bible and stop listening to your nonbeliever sites that haven't a clue to what Jesus teaches.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Yes, because god is the same, yesterday, today, and forever, except for when he changes his mind, or his covenants, or when he tells other people to love their enemies while he tortures his forever in a fire pit he built.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Jeff

      Moby Schtick, do you know how to read? Apparently not, since you didn't read my post correctly.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
    • Jeff

      Moby Schtick, God hasn't changed his mind on any of his teachings. Man either obeys or disobeys. Or, didn't you read that in the Bible?

      December 29, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
    • Andrew

      This is precisely why the bible is both immoral and incompatible with diversity. Wouldn't a so called "blasphemer" be any individual of a different religion ? This essentially calls for the violent, bloody mass murdering of large populations simply because they do not believe in the bible.

      It is all so outdated for the human race...I don't understand why so many people need such strong faith in a biblical text to carry out their lives happily and productively. Why can't so many people just focus on the life that they have, instead of whatever ensues once it ends?

      It's just madness. People need to think in terms of what is real (or evidence based) versus what is simply unproven dogma.

      December 29, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Jeff

      Andrew, you're foolish if you can't figure out simple logic.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Jeff", but there has never been another mythological character interpreted in as many contradictory ways as the Christian "God", therefore your assertion is a falsehood.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Anthony

      Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. The Old Testament is rife with contradictory issues, mostly conjured by men. Jesus told all that he brought a New Covenent with him, mostly likely meaning he came to correct things in the Old Testament. God said we should not kill (murder is the word from the direct translation from the Ancient Greek and Hebrew) and He did not tell people to stone their servants if they worked on the sabbath (the metaphore was generated by mortal man).

      I see even here that people of hate will take any forum possible to spread their fear and hate toward others. Usually, those who hate do not have love in their lives....and most often reject any love given toward them. Their low self-esteem propells them to criticize others and make them bad so they feel better about themselve by believing that THEY ARE better than others. Christians know better than that. Dr. Robert Schuller once said, "It is much better to SHOW others you are a Christian than it is to TELL them you are one."

      December 29, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
    • Jeff

      All you atheists that believe in the theory of evolution apparently never swam in the ocean. If you did, you'd understand how strong the ocean currents are. To know this truth is to know that the theory of evolution is a lie.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:03 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Jeff", but all of your assertions to date have either been unfounded or falsehoods. I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm |
    • lionlylamb

      1. The inner cosmology of the atomized realms. Are these realms not the first realms conceived in the grand schemes of cosmology?

      2. The outer cosmology of the celestial realms. Did not this realm become conceived only after the inner cosmological realm was made nearing a completion?

      3. The cellular cosmology of the living realms. Did this living realm of cosmological matter come about by sheer coincidence or was there a cosmological order for the living realms of cellular cosmology to become an ever evolving realm ending upon these celestial shores as being mankind?

      December 29, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • Jeff

      hal 9001, dementia belongs to the nonbelievers. How else do you think the theory of evolution makes sense.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:11 pm |
    • niknak

      OK, let me see if I am following your logic Jipp,
      Because there are currents in the oceans, that means that evolution is false?
      Do I have your position correct?
      If so, another reason to not home school my kid.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
    • Jeff

      Anthony, apparently you prefer to skip over Matthew 5:17-18.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:13 pm |
    • Jeff

      Let me make this easy on you niknak. If the currents of the oceans try the above athletic healthy human, what makes you think a microscopic worm can make it through it's rigors. I'm sure you'll spout more bull to substantiate your claim of untruths. That's why God calls you a fool.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • Swimmies

      Jeff
      "All you atheists that believe in the theory of evolution apparently never swam in the ocean."

      It sounds like someone held you under the water for too long...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Jim

      Lucifer is an apt name. Throughout the Bible, Lucifer lies using Scripture out of context just like in your comment.

      Since your quote from Leviticus is a directive for the people of Israel who made a covenantal agreement with God for their nation and Christians are not in that covenant nor that position, your childish and ignorance of the basics of understanding ANY text is demonstrated.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
    • Jeff

      hal 9001, let me make this easy on you. The lawless are leading the lawless.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
    • niknak

      No Jipp, god does not call me a fool.
      Or does it love you, or care that you believe in it.
      Know why?
      Thats right, god does not exist.
      Have fun howling at the moon. It might be cold out there tonight, so make sure you bundle up.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Jeff

      Swimmies, make all the wise cracks that you want. You don't live near the ocean that's why you can't see what a scam the theory of evolution is. Now, make up with mom and dad and admit you're a brat that wants to do it "your way" Frankie Sinatra.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
    • Jeff

      niknak, I was being polite writing to your moronic posts. Now stop stalking me with your baloney.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • Swimmies

      Jeff:

      "You don't live near the ocean"

      I don't? Really?

      There are gazillions of microscopic sea creatures (including worms) who do just fine at surviving and reproducing.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_biology#Microscopic_life

      December 29, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      lol, evolution is proved thousands of times a day by genetic research and active experiments and processes in labs across the globe. You may as well not believe in math or chemistry.

      December 29, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Jeff", but "Matthew 5:17-18", "God", "Lucifer", the "Bible", "Scripture", and "Leviticus" are all elements of mythology. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent true statements is: "EPIC FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements and falsehoods with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      December 29, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.