home
RSS
My Take: If you hear God speak audibly, you (usually) aren’t crazy
A woman prays in church. Many Christians say they can audibly hear the voice of God.
December 29th, 2012
10:00 PM ET

My Take: If you hear God speak audibly, you (usually) aren’t crazy

Editor's Note: Tanya Marie (“T.M.”) Luhrmann is a psychological anthropologist and the Watkins University professor in the department of anthropology at Stanford University in Stanford, California. She is the author of "When God Talks Back: Understanding the American Evangelical Relationship with God."

By T.M. Luhrmann, Special to CNN

(CNN)—In the Bible, God spoke directly to Abraham. He spoke directly to Moses. He spoke directly to Job. But to your neighbor down the street?

Most people reading the ancient scriptures understand these accounts of hearing God’s voice as miracles that really did happen but no longer take place today, or maybe as folkloric flourishes to ancient stories. Even Christians who believe that miracles can be an everyday affair can hesitate when someone tells them they heard God speak audibly. There’s an old joke: When you talk to God, we call it prayer, but when God talks to you, we call it schizophrenia.

Except that usually it’s not.

Hearing a voice when alone, or seeing something no one else can see, is pretty common. At least one in 10 people will say they’ve had such an experience if you ask them bluntly. About four in 10 say they have unusual perceptual experiences between sleep and awareness if you interview them about their sleeping habits.

Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

And if you ask them in a way that allows them to admit they made a mistake, the rate climbs even higher. By contrast, schizophrenia, the most debilitating of all mental disorders, is pretty rare. Only about one in 100 people can be diagnosed with the disorder.

Moreover, the patterns are quite distinct. People with schizophrenia who hear voices hear them frequently. They often hear them throughout the day, sometimes like a rain of sound, or a relentless hammer. They hear not only sentences, but paragraphs: words upon words upon words. What the voices say is horrid—insults, sneers and contemptuous jibes. “Dirty. You’re dirty.” “Stupid slut.” “You should’ve gone under the bus, not into it.”

That was not what Abraham, Moses and Job experienced, even when God was at his most fierce.

For the last 10 years, I have been doing anthropological and psychological research among experientially oriented evangelicals, the sort of people who seek a personal relationship with God and who expect that God will talk back. For most of them, most of the time, God talks back in a quiet voice they hear inside their minds, or through images that come to mind during prayer. But many of them also reported sensory experiences of God. They say God touched their shoulder, or that he spoke up from the back seat and said, in a way they heard with their ears, that he loved them. Indeed, in 1999, Gallup reported that 23% of all Americans had heard a voice or seen a vision in response to prayer.

These experiences were brief: at the most, a few words or short sentences. They were rare. Those who reported them reported no more than a few of them, if that. These experiences were not distressing, although they were often disconcerting and always startling. On the contrary, these experiences often made people feel more intimate with God, and more deeply loved.

In fact, my research has found that these unusual sensory experiences are more common among those who pray in a way that uses the imagination—for example, when prayer involves talking to God in your mind. The unusual sensory experiences were not, in general, associated with mental illness (we checked).

They were more common among those who felt comfortable getting caught up in their imaginations. They were also more common among those who prayed for longer periods. Prayer involves paying attention to words and images in the mind, and giving them significance. There is something about the skilled practice of paying attention to the mind in this way that shifts—just a little bit—the way we judge what is real.

Yet even many of these Christians, who wanted so badly to have a back-and-forth relationship with God, were a little hesitant to talk about hearing God speak with their ears. For all the biblical examples of hearing God speak audibly, they doubt. Augustine reports that when he was in extremis, sobbing at the foot of that fig tree, he heard a voice say, “Take it and read.” He picked up the scripture and converted. When the Christians I know heard God speak audibly, it often flitted across their minds that they were crazy.

In his new book, "Hallucinations," the noted neurologist Oliver Sacks tells his own story about a hallucinatory experience that changed his life. He took a hearty dose of methamphetamines as a young doctor, and settled down with a 19th century book on migraines. He loved the book, with its detailed observation and its humanity. He wanted more. As he was casting around in his mind for someone who could write more that he could read, a loud internal voice told him “You silly bugger” that it was he. So he began to write. He never took drugs again.

Now, Sacks does not recommend that anyone take drugs like that. He thinks that what he did was dangerous and he thinks he was lucky to have survived.

What interests me, however, is that he allowed himself to trust the voice because the voice was good. There’s a distinction between voices associated with psychiatric illness (often bad) and those (often good) that are found in the so-called normal population. There’s another distinction between those who choose to listen to a voice, if the advice it gives is good, and those who do not. When people like Sacks hear a voice that gives them good advice, the experience can transform them.

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

This is important, because often, when voices are discussed in the media or around the kitchen table, the voices are treated unequivocally as symptoms of madness. And of course, voice-hearing is associated with psychiatric illness.

But not all the time. In fact, not most of the time.

About a third of the people I interviewed carefully at the church where I did research reported an unusual sensory experience they associated with God. While they found these experiences startling, they also found them deeply reassuring.

Science cannot tell us whether God generated the voice that Abraham or Augustine heard. But it can tell us that many of these events are normal, part of the fabric of human perception. History tells us that those experiences enable people to choose paths they should choose, but for various reasons they hesitate to choose.

When the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sat at his kitchen table, in the winter of 1956, terrified by the fear of what might happen to him and his family during the Montgomery bus boycott, he said he heard the voice of Jesus promising, “I will be with you.” He went forward.

Voices may form part of human suffering. They also may inspire human greatness.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of TM Luhrmann.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • God

soundoff (7,767 Responses)
  1. Bob

    Did you know that no other religious book explains the beginning and the end of the world? God also speaks to us through Bible prophecy, do you know that the chances of the things the Bible predicts including the birth of Jesus have a 10 to the 20th power of coming true. Yet come true they have and are also entirely accurate. God is good and speaks in many ways not just through the Holy Spirit. Say are you baptized in the Spirit? Do you want to be closer to God and hear Him more then ask God for this awesome gift. As the Bible says if we as earthly fathers know how to give good gifts how much more so does our Heavenly Father give us good gifts.
    Luk 11:9 "So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
    Luk 11:10 "For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened.
    Luk 11:11 "Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
    Luk 11:12 "Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
    Luk 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

    January 3, 2013 at 8:14 pm |
    • Bob

      Find another name, asshole.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:49 pm |
    • Bet

      Lol, @ Bob.

      If by "explanation" you mean "making up a bunch of horseshit" to scare people into believing in your bad boogie man god", well, yes, the bible does have that going for it.

      It's not hard to make predictions as accurate as the bible. Anyone can do it. I predict that a fire will break out in a city near three hills. See? Easy, and 100% accurate. I'll bet it doesn't take 2000+ years for it to happen, either.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:58 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet you either are another Bet or never a Christian

      January 3, 2013 at 9:20 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob

      Nope. Same Bet.

      But, as I predicted, you've pulled Ye Olde No True Scotman from your as and present it as a valid argument. Well, for the love of tomatoes, that makes me a prophet!

      You're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one, Boob.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet
      You have posted totally contrary posts one reasonable the other cursing and off the wall, I would think that this would be your problem in why you haven't received what you asked for. Demonic activity in a persons life will stop the moving of the gifts in a persons life. Two posts so far off make me wonder. Its erratic and no insults but you should know this if you are as you say.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:40 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Bob,

      Jesus said he would return before the generation at the time had passed. If your god can't get his predictions right your religion has a problem.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:52 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob

      Nope. Anything on this particular blog that says Bet is me. You can't refute anything I've said so far so you try to discredit me by pointing out my frequent use of the word "bullshit". Really, what's next? Casting out of demons? Again, been there, done that. Wasn't god, wasn't satan, just me and my imagination.

      Like I said, though, no snakes.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:56 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bob-don't let the other guy bother you–first you were here before him and his nastiness shows he is unworthy of a viable conversation–he attacks you simply because you have the same name and he doesn't like what you say-–seriously pitiful!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:15 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bet why are you suddenly so angry– try to be reasonable and be open minded–discussion is healthy–you say you once believed and God left you empty handed-does that mean your hands stopped working altogether? You have many blessings-you may say they did not come from God- you may say they are by chance--but try not to be so angry and let people honestly be themselves and allow them to express their joy, their hope, and their faith even if you don't agree–intellectualize it! It makes it much better of an argument!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:21 am |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      Nope, not angry. Just because you haven't been able to convince me that your ankle bone healing when you have medical treatment and appropriate medication is due to some special miracle of god doesn't mean I'm angry. It just means that you're not the special snowflake you think you are. Can't you just be happy that medical science has progressed to the point where you have gotten some measure of relief from your injury? A century ago you probably would have died from an infection. Thanks to science, you didn't.

      January 4, 2013 at 1:08 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bet I didn't take any medication for my ankle–I didn't even take pain meds during the break because of my heart condition– I only took aspirin....The medical doctors casted me thats it.

      January 4, 2013 at 1:54 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      I only took calcium and aspirin–nothing else! During my hemorrhaging after childbirth I bled through the night no meds, transfusions after the fact....

      January 4, 2013 at 1:57 am |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      I can't believe that I even have to explain this to you, but aspirin is a very powerful and effective pain medication and anti-inflammatory. You also stated that you took calcium, an effective bone builder with validated, repeatable, peer reviewed research behind it. You had a cast, which is a medical treatment that immobilizes the bones so that they can knit together. You may have used crutches to keep your body weight off the injury, reducing movement and possible irritation, inflammation and/or infection.

      Sorry, princess, but that's not a miracle. It's just the standard medical protocol for a bone injury, and your body responded well to it. It's great that it happened, but it's nothing that millions of others people haven't experienced. It's just how the human body works, god or no god.

      January 4, 2013 at 2:13 am |
  2. Bob

    It's high time that the world put superstitions such as Christianity behind it. Next time you hear someone claim to have heard from a god, or to claim the existence of god, ask them for valid proof that a divine being was involved. Such proof has never, ever been presented.

    No miracle has ever been proven to have been the work of a divine being. No valid proof has ever been presented for the existence of god. Meanwhile, contradictory and wild claims are made for the characteristics and actions of Christian god, that themselves prove under examination that such a god does not exist.

    Stop the god fraud and all the evils and hate and bigotry that are part of Christianity. Here's to less religious idiocy and less religion in 2013.

    January 3, 2013 at 7:58 pm |
    • Bob

      find another name azz hole

      January 3, 2013 at 8:17 pm |
    • Wonderer

      Proof? But there is such a variety...

      Proof (truth), argument or sufficient evidence for the truth of a proposition
      Formal proof
      Mathematical proof, a convincing demonstration that some mathematical statement is necessarily true
      Proof theory, a branch of mathematical logic that represents proofs as formal mathematical objects
      Alcohol proof, a measure of an alcoholic drink's strength
      Artist's proof, a single print taken during the printmaking process
      Galley proof, a preliminary version of a publication
      Prepress proof, a facsimile of press artwork for job verification
      Proof coinage, coins once made as a test, but now specially struck for collectors
      Proofreading, reviewing a manuscript or artwork for errors or improvements
      Proofing (baking technique), the process by which a yeast-leavened dough rises, also called "proving"

      What makes you think God could be contained in any of them?
      Also...and most importantly...how much reality would you distort to acquire such proof? Would you have the psychological leverage to withstand it? I doubt it!
      And what would it benefit you? Given that you are deaf and dumb to even the slightest spiritual manifestation of Him in the world through His creation?

      The last "proof" He, through His Son, did reference 2000 years ago:

      Proofing (baking technique), the process by which a yeast-leavened dough rises, also called "proving"

      We are His proof, not for you who perishes, but for Him who is everlasting.
      Had I only these responses to make my choice from, I would choose Him!
      We find proof of Him in ourselves and it is our great joy!

      As to "fraud and all the evils and hate and bigotry" you are perpetuating that on us right now and we have survived thousands of years of it!

      You'll want to spend some time educating yourself with the founding fathers of organized atheism: Hitler, Stalin and Moa. They also wished to wipe us off the face of the earth but please look up how many died and how many sacrificed their lives to stop them.

      Empirical reality is the foundation by which you are granted the chance to experience your autonomous being. God confirmed through His Son, Jesus, that He will not distort it, yes even to death.

      Your experience in this world must be so small. The greatest have attested that:

      Evil is the vacuum created by the absence of God. Evil will devour itself!

      January 3, 2013 at 9:29 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Wanderer, your god created evil.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:55 pm |
    • Wonderer

      No. Evil is the contextual removal from good. In and of itself it is a vacuum only appearing to have substance, an illusion. All that is good comes from God.
      I suggest you consider by what ethical standard you consider someone your friend.
      And what alters that privilege. One earth as it is in heaven...

      January 3, 2013 at 10:03 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Isaiah

      45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:18 pm |
    • Wonderer

      Yes! God does have the authority to remove Himself. And to those or what He justly removes Himself from experience the vacuum. The understanding is that "making" is not creation but interrelation. Light and Darkness/Good and Evil. And never forget that "creation" is not "making." This is not a game and God is not preparing the Jews at that time for the Boys Scouts of America!

      Consider even before that statement:

      Isaiah 45/5. I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God: I will strengthen you although you have not known Me.

      How many millions of those utterly imprisoned away from good and in the chains of addiction have found deliverance only through recognition of their removal from good. Although they have done things that CNN would not allow me to post they found deliverance through a "higher power." And endeavoured to return to the good and make amends (contextually reinstate themselves) to those the have harmed through their own free will. This site would crash if they all confessed at once.

      And God is the HIGHEST power

      January 3, 2013 at 10:55 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I am glad you now agree that your god is the source of evil.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:02 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Wonderer

      You said, "Although they have done things that CNN would not allow me to post they found deliverance through a "higher power.",

      CNN doesn't censor this site, so stop acting so persecuted and post away. If something doesn't show up, it just means that you've used a word or part of a word that gets flagged by their automated filter. Like the word "constitution" contains the letters "tit", so your post won't appear. There are ways around it, but you are probably smart enough to figure them out on your own.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:10 pm |
    • guest

      Bob – what proof do you have that there is no God? Just curious since you are asking for valid proof God exists. I don't think you can prove either. If you believe in God – its by faith which is a choice, if you don't believe in God – that's also a choice.

      January 23, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
  3. delusion

    I often hear audibly Darwin and Marx arguing;
    "Evolution!" "No, Revolution!" "Never, Evolution!" "No chance, Revolution!"

    And sometimes Hitler chimes in "extermination?"

    January 3, 2013 at 7:32 pm |
  4. Proof of God

    I can prove that the Christian God and Jesus are "real"! Romans could only believe in their "gods" when they were young because it was the only thing their parents/society had taught them. They didn't believe in Jesus until after they learned about him. Greeks could only believe in Zeus...Muslims in Allah...Norse in Odin...etc. No child raised in isolation from outside information can believe in any "god"/religion that they have never heard of or been exposed to. This much seems blindingly obvious. Can we agree that nobody can believe in an imaginary being until someone tells them about it? Same goes for werewolves, bigfoot, vampires, etc. Obviously, when we are very young we can only believe in a creation of someone else's imagination if they tell us about it and the more here hear about it the more we believe...if Santa left us presents every day it would be pretty hard to shake that belief.
    Here's the proof...Christians, even if they are raised by wolves in the wilderness, have an intimate and inate relationship with God and Jesus Christ. Even if they never heard it from their parents, were never taken to church, never sent to Sunday school, never read the bible, never heard all the referances to it in our language...in movies...on TV...on our money (since 1955)...in literature...in their home, they would still cross themselves.
    Oh wait, I screwed that up. They would only know what the wolves thought them and would lap up water with their tounges. Appearently we can only believe in what we are taught...at least until experience teaches us something different. Belief in a "god" is a cultural variable...no god has ever outlasted it's believers or the society that taught them to believe. Don't be afraid of Zeus...he has no followers. The only reason to fear any "god" is that you have tried to force reason on the people that learned about him and didn't have the mental capacity to reason their way out of it.

    January 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm |
    • lol??

      With all your wisdom do you think the physical wolves or the spiritual wolves in americult are the most dangerous to a person?

      January 3, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
    • tuckerfan

      Interesting thesis, but do you have any evidence? I have heard from both scientists and religious people that many people perceive God without a religious education. Google the God gene, then see the description of St. Paul's visit to Athens in Acts.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:14 pm |
    • Bet

      @ lol??

      Hands down, the spiritual wolves. They prey on the poor, the superstitious, the insecure and the uneducated. They promote imaginary deities, eternal life, unending punishment, inherited crimes, mythical creatures and a book of magic. They hinder scientific, medical and social progress by keeping their subjects rooted in ignorance and fear. Then they demand 10% of your money.

      Being ripped apart by a pack of grey wolves would be far less painful than sitting through another bullshit sermon about the bible.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:28 pm |
  5. thelemite

    I am a 29 year old male, I was diagnosed with schizophrenia about 4 years ago. I have luckily found a great medication and most of my audio/visual phenominon have subsided. However I do still occasionally hear what I used to believe was the voice of God and/or angels. I can tell you first hand that not all schizophrenic hallucinations are negative (although a large percentage are). At this point in my treatment it would be very counter productive for me to start putting stock in these voices, even though they seem legitimate. To say that hearing God is different than hallucinating could set people with schizophrenia reading this back in their progress. I know for me it can be a relieving thought that what I'm hearing is the voice of God and it has always been tempting to believe that. Having said that,I don't much care for this article, or the negative impact that it may have on treated schizophrenics who are trying to kick the delusions.

    January 3, 2013 at 4:02 pm |
    • Bet

      Thanks for posting. I'm glad you have found a good medical protocol. Hopefully, there will be more scientific breakthroughs and continued better understanding of your condition in the very near future.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:18 pm |
    • End Religion

      Thanks for posting this. Here's hoping your meds continue to work for you. Good luck with your ailment.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:07 pm |
    • JWT

      I know one family that has had to sever all ties with a very religious family member due to her insistence that the son's schizophrenia was a religious experience and not a medical problem. It can be very very dangerous for some people.

      All the best to your and hang in there. There is always hope for a cure or at least better meds.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:19 pm |
    • Bob

      Most Thelemites hold that every person possesses a True Will, a single overall motivation for their existence. The Law of Thelema mandates that each person follow their True Will to attain fulfillment in life and freedom from restriction of their nature. Because no two True Wills can be in real conflict (according to "Every man and every woman is a star"), this Law also prohibits one from interfering with the True Will of any other person. The notion of absolute freedom for an individual to follow his or her True Will is a cherished one among Thelemites. This philosophy also recognizes that the main task of an individual setting out on the path of Thelema is to first discover his or her True Will, giving methods of self-exploration such as magick great importance. Furthermore, every True Will is different, and because each person has a unique point-of-view of the universe, no one can determine the True Will for another person. Each person must arrive at the discovery for themselves.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:49 pm |
    • Bob

      One episode of this epic adventure tells of the founding of an "Abbey of Thelema" as an org for the cultivation of human virtues, which Rabelais identified as being squarely opposite the prevailing Christian proprieties of the time. The sole rule of the Abbey of Thelema was: "Do what thou wilt". This has become one of the basic tenets of Thelemic philosophy today. Although touched upon by various prominent visionary thinkers in the following few hundred years, the seeds of Thelema sown by Rabelais eventually came to fruition in the early part of this century when developed by an Englishman named Aleister Crowley. Crowley was a poet, author, mountaineer, magician, and member of the occult society known as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. In 1904, while traveling in Egypt with his wife Rose, Crowley became inextricably involved in a series of events which he claimed to inaugurate a new aeon of human evolution

      January 3, 2013 at 7:55 pm |
    • Saraswati

      The idea is not that there's anything special about hearing God as an hallucination. Rather the point is that hearing voices occasionally no more means schizophrenia than coughing occasionally means you have TB or getting a head ache now and then means a brain tumor. For those who, in the absence of other symptoms, hear the occasional fleeting voice there is not necessarily anything wrong. If they then go on to attribute that voice to God, that's no different than attributing one's dreams to God.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:09 pm |
    • Bob

      Saraswati is strongly associated with flowing water in her role as a goddess of knowledge. She is depicted as a beautiful woman to embody the concept of knowledge as supremely alluring. She possesses four arms, and is usually shown wearing a spotless white saree and seated on a white lotus or riding a white swan.Saraswati is the Goddess of learning and the meaning of the goddess in association of all the symbols with her signifies that if a learner really understands and pursues the connotative and denotative meaning of the goddess, he or she can easily advance in acquiring knowledge. The realization of the Goddess makes the learner ready to embark on the world of knowledge and wisdom] Debneth identifies seven primary characteristics and symbols of the goddess that relate to her role as a goddess of knowledge. Saraswati is the goddess of learning, and not a god; and this feminine aspect signifies creativity, as a woman can originate a human being in her womb.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:42 pm |
    • Bob

      Demonic deities of course would not want us to acknowledge that we hear from God the farther away people think God is the better for them. It will make the lies so much easier to believe because they will not possess the spirit of Truth that reveals all truth from God to them.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:47 pm |
    • Bob

      I don't know why I bother sometimes. I would rather being doing this, if I could get past my own insecurities.
      [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9zscAkI7Q&w=640&h=390]

      January 3, 2013 at 8:54 pm |
  6. spacely

    I think Bob is on point but maybe God is just something they can't understand yet. I pray they will. ;)

    January 3, 2013 at 3:21 pm |
    • Bet

      Why?

      January 3, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bet– I am very sorry you were treat awful by the Catholic church–but Catholicism is a religion, it is not God, just a path some people choose to get to God.

      I am uncertain Peter the first "Pope" would have wanted people to be treated the way you were treated-seems to me I highly doubt it!

      January 3, 2013 at 4:59 pm |
    • End Religion

      Why pray? It has been proven similarly effective as not praying. Aside from that the bible has been proven a fraud, so praying to something that doesn't exist couldn't possibly be worth the effort. Instead of wasting your time praying, get out there and physically work at the things you want to change.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:10 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      End religion-

      I have had two miracles to my body after praying–In fact I just got back from the doctor's UCONN medical center–they expected today to talk to me about surgery for my ankle–I have a heart condition and surgery would be to dangerous for me...they said the fracture on both sides of my ankle was like the Hudson River and would leave me without the ability to walk without surgery.. I prayed–ate calcium–did my part and after 6 months the bones are fusing–the gap is closing and I can walk with the help of a boot and a walker. He was surprised candidly –even he ackownledged God-and he is from India and a doctor!

      January 3, 2013 at 5:27 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      Do you have any evidence that it was the prayer and not the calcium + time that caused your bones to start knitting together again?

      Did this doctor alert the media and the medical community about your miraculous healing that was caused by prayer? No? I'm surprised, you'd think that proof of a miraculous prayer cure would be making the rounds on the news channels.

      Did it ever occur to you that your doctor was just humoring you?

      January 3, 2013 at 5:41 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      No Bet–I have had 3 doctors tell me I would probably never walk without surgery. One hospital and two ortho surgeons.I had talked to them about stem cell–one of the doctors even poopooed that and cell stem cell would not work –he said that would be like putting stem cells in the Hudson River–the gap was too large.

      3 different doctors recommended surgery as the only way to get me walking. I was in a wheelchair for 3 1/2 months calcium alone could not fuse these bones–I broke both sides of my ankle it was a really bad brake. I am a bit tough though, and I prayed–and I am certain the calcium helped, but that alone could not have brought the bones close enough to fuse!

      The media sorry to say Bet doesn't want to know about miracles-it is very very sad!

      January 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      and Bet–I know Catholicism is a real religion–there are parts of Catholicism that I find wonderful–but I am a free thinker–raised in an old New England Congregational church in an old New England Town.....when everyone bowed to God as a child I looked up. I was a hippy and it was cool to be a Jesus freak–but I am an older woman who loves God–Jesus is more than just alright with me–but GOD is my light. I do not believe that Jesus is God,but that he is his son–I am different in my beliefs. My miracles arrive in so many ways–and I am sooo thrilled to walk again. I love nature and to spend my time with God outdoors-I studied Medjugorge and I have had my own situations like those there–but not appiaitions of mother Mary

      January 3, 2013 at 6:01 pm |
    • End Religion

      Lori I am sorry to hear of your condition but glad it has improved. There's plenty of proof showing prayer does nothing, and all people heal at different rates with various expectations from doctors.

      Humans are not like automobiles – you don't simply replace a "headlight" when it goes out and then expect the headlight to work like new. Every doctor is using his best judgement, industry knowledge and colleagues to make an "educated guess" about how to fix your broken headlight (ankle) but it just isn't as simple as [calcium + 6 months + rehabilitation exercises = ankle perfection]. Your diet, prior health, genetics, environment and stress factors all change this recipe for better or worse.

      While "positive thought" itself seems to have some slight effect on many things in life via the "placebo effect", specifically prayer (appealing to a god for intervention) does not work. But if you find prayer positive, then maybe yours falls into this category. Hopefully you can understand it is not actually a god fixing your ankle for some unknown reason while he "lets" others around the world die or cannot heal amputees he want their legs back as badly as you want your ankle healed.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:12 pm |
    • End Religion

      ...amputees who want...

      January 3, 2013 at 6:13 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      Oh, bullshit. If you or your doctors had any scientific evidence that prayer worked, it would be all over every news outlet worldwide. Doctors are business people too, and publicity helps them make more money. Xtians love to play the persecution card when people don't believe their "miracles".

      Doctors disagree on medical protocols all the time. Sometimes it takes a while to find the right combination of meds and treatment. When and if you find one that works, it's the meds and treatment, not god.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:18 pm |
    • han solo

      Prayer helps.

      Spirituality is helpful in recovery. The secular world is taking notice of this.

      I pray for medical advances for ailments that afflict those I love.

      Miracles are nice, too. I've had one in my life. But I can't will a miracle in happening. But I live my life in response to one, for sure.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:25 pm |
    • End Religion

      Solo, please post your study showing spirituality is helpful in recovery. The secular world is not only mostly ignoring prayer, since it is known NOT to work, but religion itself is dying altogether. Enjoy your culture of ignorance while it lasts.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:47 pm |
    • Having an ankle heal is not a miracle

      ----Lori “I have had two miracles to my body after praying”
      ankles heal all the time. Now if you had regrown an amputated foot, your miracle claim might have been worth something

      January 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bet–my near death childbirth experience left me with no help but God--

      January 4, 2013 at 12:29 am |
    • tallulah13

      Did doctors refuse to treat you when things went wrong as you gave birth, Lori? Did they simply stand there and wait for you to die, or did they use their skills to try to save your life?

      January 4, 2013 at 12:37 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      tallulah13

      I Hemorrhaged all night long after my daughter was born–she was born posterior–my blood pressure dropped during childbirth significantly. I suffered severe lacerations. After my daughter was born the doctor long since left. the nurses monitored me, they tried to make the bleeding stop but it would not. In the night when I was in a very weakened state, I knew I was struggling I just didnt know how bad until the next day when I found out how close I came all through the night they tried to stop the clots- I felt very weak, in the dark night I heard God ask me if I wanted to live. I heard it again– and I asnwered yes! The next day I found out I had lost half my body's blood through the nigh–t my HCT level was at 19. I required transfusions to recover. But what stopped me from bleeding to death was God... not man!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:48 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      Having an ankle heal where the bones were to far apart to heal on their own without surgery and then to have them do just that is a bit of a miracle–indeed! It was a non-union fracture on both sides of my ankle. I broke my ankle 6 months ago, I still have bruising, on the left side and on the right I can feel the gap in my bone, the doctor had me feel it–he showed the shadows of the bone that was beginning to be created to fuse the ankle on the X-rays–he was very surprised and happy for me!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:53 am |
    • tallulah13

      I wonder why the nurses didn't call another doctor or call the one doctor to return. If the hospital was truly that negligent, you should sue for malpractice. But it seems the nurses provided you with the medical care that saved your life. How about thanking them? Is a miracle so important for you that you refuse to credit the human effort and transfusion?

      January 4, 2013 at 2:42 am |
    • Bet

      @ tallulah

      Lori thinks it's a miracle that her broken ankle is healing after "only" having a cast put on, using a wheelchair, and taking calcium of unknown dosage and aspirin of unknown dosage, and who know what else. None of those count as medicine or medical treatment, apparently.

      I've done so many facepalms, I'm beginning to need an aspirin myself.

      January 4, 2013 at 3:06 am |
    • tallulah13

      @bet

      I would really like to hear both sides of the story concerning her "miracles". Her insistence is too obsessive for me to take at face value, no matter how much I would like to.

      January 4, 2013 at 4:03 am |
  7. DUMBAtheiStS

    "In the mid 1800's, William Kennett Loftus uncovered arceological evidence of Kingdom of Uruk.
    That does not, however, make the Epic of Gilgamesh historical fact.
    There was likely a King named Gilgamesh, but it is doubtful that he ruled for 125 years, visited the Underworld, or was 3/4 divine.
    There are lots of artifacts from ancient Greece, but that doesn't make The Iliad literally true."

    Yes, like fossils that are discovered do not take away the fact that The 'Theory' of Evolution was just a product of Darwin's massive LBM.

    January 3, 2013 at 3:03 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      Do you think fossils are the only evidence supporting evolution? Are you that ignorant?

      January 3, 2013 at 3:06 pm |
    • Primewonk

      The theory of evolution is the single most confirmed theory in all science. In 150+ years it has never been falsified – not even close.

      The fact that you do not know this simply shows the profound depths of your scientific ignorance.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • End Religion

      OP, if I buy a cape with a big "S" on it for you (for 'Stupid') will you wear it?

      January 3, 2013 at 5:13 pm |
  8. the AnViL

    q/ why do men have ni pples?
    a/ because there are no gods.

    ¡ɯooq

    January 3, 2013 at 2:29 pm |
    • lol??

      How 'bout the important man? Found yer dad yet? He's probably still prayin' for ya.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:36 pm |
    • The Truth

      GOOSEBUMPS?

      COCCYX?

      EXTRINSIC EAR MUSCLES?

      SUBCLAVIUS MUSCLE?

      PALMARIS MUSCLE?

      PLANTARIS MUSCLE?

      FEMALE VAS DEFERENS?

      PYRAMIDALIS MUSCLE?

      If any of you don't know what those are it's likely because you have been getting along fine without using them, which begs the questions, what are they for then if we were carefully designed in our current form by a creator?

      January 3, 2013 at 2:39 pm |
    • The Truth

      lol? was asked why he had a tux on at the hospital and replied "Well, if ima gonna be impotent then I better look impotent..."

      January 3, 2013 at 2:40 pm |
    • the AnViL

      vestigial traits are satans trick on humanity!!!!!

      January 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • Bet

      @ The Truth

      That's an oldie but a goodie! Mr. Bet says it when we see someone who's all slicked up and strutting their stuff. Cracks me up every time.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:05 pm |
    • Wonderer

      God is keeping His options open!

      Since the last time we had so corrupted even the animals that they had to be destroyed along with us! The event is known as the Flood.

      And do we to this day continue to corrupt, destroy, poison and abuse the animals? Conduct tests on them, jail them in zoos and project our sickest tendencies on them?

      As for hallucinatory experiences of God – for all true Christians it is enough that He sent His only Son to break the curse of the occult by meeting man in his humanity. As it is the Divine Human, Jesus, has returned to God and those who can comprehend the magnificence of autonomous experience and the choice are contented. God altered for all time the experience of the Divine from external to internal as only an author of all reality could. When Christ sent Peter and Saul to convert the Gentiles (the entire world) It was to shatter the grip of the occult and bring His creation into a life of abundance. Not of things but of the profound appreciation of the quality of life. So that as it is in Heaven it will be on earth. And at no time did he bludgeon them with some fantastical solution that would force them into His likeness...because that is against the majesty of His Being.

      As mechanisms cannot "create" themselves, I suggest you read Wisdom 13!
      Ask yourself had God mentioned the atom in Genesis, would we have destroyed cities sooner or only now. If we "invented" this God who first introduced Himself to the Jews, why have we not been able to integrate even ten simple statements though now criminal law is an obscenely massive labyrinth that has only increased our violence!

      So as He will not break His promise to never again destroy His creation...I think many would benefit from some time in trees picking lice of their neighbours...

      January 3, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Wonderer

      Congrats. That was quite the rambling pile of idiocy.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:34 pm |
    • Athy

      One wonders if "wonderer" is related to Lionlylamb. Makes a little more sense than Lionly, but not much.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:00 pm |
    • oh brother.

      met·a·phor
      [met-uh-fawr, -fer] Show IPA

      noun
      1.
      a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.” Compare mixed metaphor, simile ( def 1 ) .

      2.
      something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.

      --------------------------–

      Origin:
      1525–35; < Latin metaphora < Greek metaphorá a transfer, akin to metaphérein to transfer. See meta-, -phore

      January 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • I wonder

      oh brother,

      Not sure who you're addressing that metaphor post to, but it is one of the reasons that there are over 30,000 denominations of Christianity – dispute over whether something in the Bible is metaphor or real... and if metaphor, what does it signify. These 'gems' would stem from a stupid poor-communicator god, or from a trickster one.

      (or most likely to bumbling men, who made them up)

      January 3, 2013 at 7:24 pm |
  9. Tom, Tom, the Other One

    It is amusing to see people post here who pose as Christian apologists and exegesists, but who will never claim to have had a direct, personal, experience with God. Amusing because believing on the basis of an experience of that kind is the only way they could actually be anything but dishonest with themselves and the rest of us. Does God speak to them personally? Does it tell them that it loves them? Does it tell them that they are a special creation billions of years in the making? Does it make a personal promise to them that they have an eternal place with it, an end to all tears?

    January 3, 2013 at 1:47 pm |
    • lol??

      Let's hear some laughter. louder. Coyotes can do it. What's wrong with yew?

      January 3, 2013 at 2:17 pm |
    • Bob

      I cannot think of a bigger waste of time than arguing with atheists that have no experience with God have no idea or desire to know Him. They are a waste and the discussion with them is a waste and I think it would be much more productive to ignore them and support and confirm the positive nature of this article. The Bible is very clear that the things of God are foolishness to such as these and we see the Bible coming true again. Thank you Lord.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • In Santa we trust

      And yet you do Bob, presumably because you feel that others would benefit from sharing your delusion. Very little in the bible is true, so there is very little likelihood that any of its predictions will come true – there's more chance of a fortune teller with a glass globe getting a percentage correct because their predictions are so vague.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • the AnViL

      *silently points to the long list of failed biblical predictions*

      January 3, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Really??

      Bob
      The bigger waste of time is reading your fable book

      January 3, 2013 at 2:48 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      I can be hard to justify beliefs Bob, especially yours. So I don't really blame you putting on blinders....it is easier that way.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:58 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Doncha just luuuuurve the way Atheists – who lack the integrity, vision, logic and reasoning to accept God – put all their naive trust in science?
      They believe in Humanism, which relegates man to animal status;
      And they are witless enough to worship science for turning into a monster resulting in the destruction of the world they live in!!!! Lemmings one and all.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:59 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob

      I've had experiences that I thought were god speaking to me, I devoted a large chunk of my personal and professional life to what I thought was god. I believed fervently and had all the requisite physical, mental and emotional reactions. The problem is, I'm a perpetual student. I've been immersed in religion at home, school and on the job for decades, so I had plenty of opportunity to study the bible, other religions and the secular world. The more I studied, the more contradiction, falsehood and imagination I saw. When I asked elders, priests, and ministers to explain them to me, I would accept whatever they said and go back to studying. But that only revealed more and more inconsistencies, more contradictions, and more people for whom there is no evidence of existence, hence more questions. This made me very unpopular with whatever religious authority was on the receiving end. Invariably, they would tell me that I just needed to stop thinking so much, stop reading the bible so much, god is too mysterious for me to understand, and in a couple of cases, that as a woman, I had no business even asking questions like that. I was good enough to teach in their schools, and to teach Sunday school, give personal testimonies and lead prayer groups for years, but not to ask a question about my eternal soul.

      It was at that point I stopped attending a church, having been kicked out of the Roman Catholic church and strongly "advised" to stop studying the bible in a fundie church. I kept studying with a private scholar who was a born again xtian. He encouraged me to question everything I was told about god and the bible, even what he said. Eventually, I just studied myself out of believing in any god. He respected my decision and we remained friends until he died last year.

      So unless you are going to pull a true Scotsman on me, I suppose I qualify for having had a "religious experience". I just now know that it was me, not god, creating my own experience for whatever motivation I had at the time. Acceptance? Yes. Ego? Definitely. Desire for eternal life? Of course. Who doesn't desire eternal life?

      This life has been wonderful enough for me, and I don't feel that my years as a religious person were a waste. I taught children how to read, how to study, and how to act with compassion and love toward others. Those things do not require a god, they are a part of being a successful, happy, productive person. I hear from students that I taught as far back as the '80s through FB and other social media. It's more rewarding to know I've helped a person be literate than any church or religious experience I've ever had.

      At the very least, those years helped me develop critical thinking skills and to do truthful research, no matter where it leads or what answers I find.

      Also, this: They even have to come here to a Christian post and try to destroy the free exchange of ideas between believers.

      Once again, this isn't a xtian blog, it's a public discussion forum on a belief blog. No one here is stopping you from your free exchange of ideas. Just be prepared to defend your position, and when you post bullshit as the truth, be prepared to have a new one ripped.

      January 3, 2013 at 3:24 pm |
    • sam stone

      "They are a waste and the discussion with them is a waste and I think it would be much more productive to ignore them" Yeah, we are such a waste. Still got that bible jammed up your rectum, little fella?

      "The Bible is very clear that the things of God are foolishness to such as these and we see the Bible coming true again. Thank you Lord."

      Wow, that is convincing....

      I was driving home, early Sunday morning, through Bakersfield, listening to gospel music on the colored radio station and the preacher said "you always have lord by your side". And, I was so pleased to be informed of this that I ran twenty red lights in his honor. Thank you jesus, thank you lord

      January 3, 2013 at 3:31 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      The scientific method is predicated on skepticism.
      A theory is what one or more hypotheses become once they have been verified and accepted to be true. A theory is an explanation of a set of related observations or events based upon proven hypotheses and verified multiple times by detached groups of researchers.
      Every step taken in evaluating a hypothesis is meticulously docu.mented so that anybody can replicate the experiment and judge the results for themselves. If enough people confirm the methodology and results, the theory is considered sound.
      The scientific method discourages "naive trust".

      Religious faith is the anti-thesis of the scientific method.
      Faith requires the willing suspension of rational inquiry in order to accept dogmatic, rote answers.

      Not all atheists are humanists. The prefix "A" = lack of. "Theism" = belief in gods. A + Theism = lack of belief in gods. It is a negative label that describes only what one does NOT believe.

      As for "relegating humans to animal status" – which viewpoint do you think is more egotistical/delusional?
      1) Humans are the product of adaptation to our environments, the same as all other life on Earth.
      2) Humans are the predilect objects made by an anthropocentric / anthropomorphic Creator and the entire universe exists as it does simply to have us in it. All other life, indeed all that exists, is here for our benefit becuase that Creator said we have dominion over Creation.

      January 3, 2013 at 3:35 pm |
    • sam stone

      decency: you are still blathering like a diseased little gash. bark, little fvcking doggie

      January 3, 2013 at 3:38 pm |
    • Bet

      Let's hear some laughter. louder. Coyotes can do it. What's wrong with yew?

      Hey lol??, what's the ugliest plant in the world?

      Yew.

      I'lll be here all week. Tell your friends, and don't forget to tip your waitress!

      January 3, 2013 at 4:24 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Sanm stone – what a nasty little terite you are! Do attempt words of more than 2 syllables and leave out the unnecessary filth. When I take out the trash from your comments – thgat just leaves your name!!!!!! Muppet.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:34 pm |
    • lol??

      sam stone sayz, "...........and the preacher said "you always have lord by your side"..........' Well dudettte, you don't have the discernment to turn off a false preacher. Christians know this: "1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

      January 3, 2013 at 4:50 pm |
    • lol??

      Bet, do you have a hubby to explain things? Teaching in sunday schools? You're supposed to teach other women to love their children and their hubbies, not take over in the assembly with your questions......"1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

      January 3, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bet--

      Don't ask the theologians about God–ask God about God–if you truly want to know than go to the source. That is the one thing that always bothered me about Catholicism–there's always so many darn people and Saints and Popes and Mother Mary that intercede so mankind cannot truly connect one on one with God- I have studied some of Catholicism–it was funny actually I used to wait on a Bishop in Connecticut- and one day I asked to meet him at his office- he agreed and we chatted about God–I asked why do Catholics put so many people between themselves and God. I said if I wanted to talk to God- I just lifted my head and asked God myself...he thought that was different than how he lived his faith–another good friend of mine a staunch older Catholic Italian man once met up with me and his book of Saints–he said they were intermediaries for humans to help them get closer to God. I actually love the story of St.Francis of Assisi– he was a wonderful man.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:11 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Bob–do not argue with the atheists just keep talking about how God has touched your life–they wille ither hunger for it or they won't–we can only plant seeds

      January 3, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Bet

      @ lol??

      Bet, do you have a hubby to explain things? Teaching in sunday schools? You're supposed to teach other women to love their children and their hubbies, not take over in the assembly with your questions......"1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

      Bwah ha ha ha! Yes, I have a husband, but he is a scientist and not prone to stupid ideas, such as the need to explain imaginary beings and magic books to his poor li'l ole wifey.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:15 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      You are focused on dismissing the Roman Catholic part of my experience because you feel that the RCC is not a "true" xtian religion. However, the stories are the same, the rules are the same, and the bulls is the same. Same god, same trinity, same jeebus, same cross, same "original sin", same heaven and hell. Minor variations in how to supplicate yourself to god, but same, same, same. But thanks for dismissing the abuse I endured as a child so easily, after all, it wasn't "your" god.

      At the same time, you are ignoring that I had the very same experiences, although I was by that time an adult, in a fundie, bible banging, spirit filled, tongues a-waggin', everything but snake handling church too.

      You really can't stand it when someone doesn't just swallow your myths hook, line and sinker.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:26 pm |
    • lol??

      Well, Bet, with all yer learnin' and yer hubby's learnin' you must have come across this,"Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Who we're you teachin' in the assembly?

      January 3, 2013 at 5:32 pm |
    • Bet

      @ lol??

      Of course I've seen that verse. I've read the bible several times over. I've also read "Gone with the Wind" and studied the Civil War. That doesn't mean I think Scarlett O'Hara was a real person.

      Silly lol??, can't prove his point without random quotes from his magic book.

      January 3, 2013 at 6:00 pm |
    • sam stone

      decency: you are a troll. fvck off

      January 3, 2013 at 7:01 pm |
    • sam stone

      isn't that sweet? lol?? has eaten his bible, now he is eliminating scripture from his tail pipe

      January 3, 2013 at 7:09 pm |
    • Wonderer

      Are you illiterate?

      God revealed Himself openly to the Jews and lead them out of occult Egypt in Person! He proclaimed His Love for them and promised them that their descendants would outnumber the stars. That He would make of them a city of light by which all the Nations will recognize His Glory.

      And do you recognize that for two thousand years, the Jews, His firstborn, have not uttered a single report that He ever spoke to them directly since! Had they "invented" Him, why not?

      Or could it be...

      That God then turned to the rest of the world...His creation...but not externally but internally? Why? Quite simple: whosoever you love is true of you and you and that person of your love is affirmed in your being. Millions of Christians have affirmed the love from God through the presence of His Holy Spirit but you do not acknowledge this as true "experience." Furthermore Saints have left detailed accounts of just what you are requesting? Do you call us liars or delusional whether we would speak or not?

      Many in their most arrogant error would think that the holocaust would prove they are not the chosen of God. But consider that by their horrendous mass murder, in the hands of atheists no less, they have proved to the nations what we will NEVER want to be! And I know, that in God's infinite justice, that in the nation of light to come we will rejoice that their faithfulness instructed us so!

      It never ceases to amaze me that so many, who are utterly ignorant even of what is true of the nature of their own being, demand proof of a Being, so infinitely superior to them, that in the proof of Him they would disprove themselves!

      I Am, that I Am – God the Creator
      Before Abraham WAS, I Am – Jesus, Son of God, Savior
      I think therefore I am – Creature within Creation

      January 3, 2013 at 7:28 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet
      Thank you for sharing and I am happy you did share that, but I have to agree with Lori Why did you not ask God? What I have found with the Lord is He will give you or allow you the things you want to do. So it is with knowledge and research that we will always find the stuff that makes us wonder. But we make our own decisions. I have done much study and research and at times found it challenged my faith and not in a good way or maybe it needed to be challenged in this way to settle some issues. It made me reflect on the goodness of God how many times He came to my rescue. The times I prayed for people and watched their faces people crying after the Lord touched them and having the confidence in God to continue on in some bad situations till the Lord worked them out. When I reflected on all this I decided that although I did have questions I would wait for the Lord to answer them. I didn't stop researching and studying but I waited for the answers. He has always been faithful to answer.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:29 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet
      Actually the Catholics teaching is a bit different with a couple of big exceptions. They have confession to a Priest, they don't teach on the gifts of the Spirit nor the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, More concerned about religion than having a relationship. There is one mediator between man and God and that is Jesus. He is the one that bought the forgiveness of sins and we confess to the Father not a man.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:41 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob and Lori,

      Sweet cinnamon buns, of course I tried to communicate directly with god. All day, every day. It was part of my nature to pray, just like it is for you. Sometimes I even thought he answered, like when I'd find a good parking place in the rain or get a raise, or when I'd sit at the beach and watch the sun set. But the big questions, the ones that were more important than a good parking place or my sports team winning, went unanswered then, and they remain unanswered by your god or any other god to this day.

      January 3, 2013 at 7:57 pm |
    • Bet

      Seriously, Bob? I went to twelve years of parochial school and taught in a RC school for years. I know all about Catholic doctrine.

      After I was kicked out of the Catholic church, I became a fundie. I taught in a fundie school, too. I know about the gifts of the spirit, the blood of the lamb, the sin nature.

      The plain old truth of the matter is that I sought god earnestly with all my heart, I prayed and I studied endlessly, I tried my best. And the more I learned about god, the less I believed in the bible until one day I realized that I no longer believed any of it. No big drama, no huge moment, no trumpets or flashes of light. Just a nice sense of release, like taking off a tight pair of shoes after a long day and wiggling your toes.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:18 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet
      Why with all this did you not ask for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

      January 3, 2013 at 8:50 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob

      Been there, done that. Fell down in the spirit, spoke in tongues, the whole nine yards. I wanted it bad enough to make it happen, and it did. Not god, not the holy spirit, just me and my fervent little self.

      No snake handling though, in case you were going down that path.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:09 pm |
    • Bob

      Bet
      If you knew it was you you must have known something was wrong. Why did you not ask God to heal and restore you?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:23 pm |
    • Bob

      You should give God a chance, Bet. If it hadn't been for God, I would not have met the love of my life, a man named Douglas.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:31 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Bet, your story is essentually the same as mine (recovering Catholic).

      Bob, it is always the same story, if a former christian truly did everything to believe, and still ended realizing there is no truth in christianity, then we were doing it wrong all along. I know you mean well but that line of logic is really old.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:36 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Bob

      At the time, it was very real to me and I truly thought it was god acting through me and in me. It was only after years of not being able to ignore the contradictions, the violence, the bigotry and the evil of the god depicted in the bible that I realized i created it all myself.

      it's scary to admit all that stuff at first, but so many others have been through the same brainwashing that I'm no longer self conscious about admitting that I spent years rolling on the floor in jeebus' name.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Well, I had it better than most. I never got molested by a priest. Shamed, humiliated, terrorized and slapped, though.

      If ever there was a miracle, it would be that we made it through childhood with any semblance of sanity at all.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:46 pm |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      Bet,

      I was abused (not s.e.xually), hit, humilated, berated. It did make me stronger and made me question authority.....your story made me smile.

      January 4, 2013 at 2:07 am |
  10. Dawn Cribbs

    Say what you will. I have felt the touch of Christ on my tear-stained cheeks. Years later, my husband, not given to emotionalism at all, stood at the edge of a great precipice, the entire world laid before him as he wept. The Lord came alongside him, put his arm around his shoulder, and lead him back the way he'd come.

    January 3, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • Bet

      People in crisis have all sorts of emotions, reactions and feelings. Some of them can be quite unusual. Dressing them up in religiosity doesn't make god any more real.

      January 3, 2013 at 1:39 pm |
    • sam stone

      how do you know it was christ?

      January 3, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Dyslexic doG

      LSD obviously.

      January 3, 2013 at 1:54 pm |
    • sam stone

      Dyslexic: Bad stuff, at that

      January 3, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Realist

      Dawn Cribbs,

      " [my husband] stood at the edge of a great precipice, the entire world laid before him as he wept."

      This would only be possible on a flat Earth. You have read one too many delusional fantasy stories.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • the AnViL

      *breaks down weeping* that is so beautiful, dawn...

      you've converted me...

      my heart has been hardened... and closed to the spirit of Christ...
      i now know that is only through Him i can be saved...

      my heart is softening – and it's because of you.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:08 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Dawn – God Bless you for that. ANYONEwho is open to the Spirit of God knows that He is constantly supporting us when we need Him most.
      For those who say it's "emotion" "hysteria", "imagination" .......but not God, what do you base that on? Prove it if you will but please - don't knock it till you've tried putting your faith in God [otgherwise you're just a small minded person with a narrow opinion]

      January 3, 2013 at 3:05 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Decency

      I don't want to repeat myself, so I'll respectfully ask you to scroll up the page a bit and read what I have written about my own experiences as a religious person. Many of us here were believers at one time, too.

      Don't assume that you know anything about someone else's experience or lack thereof.

      January 3, 2013 at 3:43 pm |
    • End Religion

      nutters on peyote can't be a good thing

      January 3, 2013 at 5:39 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Dawn never let others who are very very angry with a religion that hurt them tell you what you have felt isn't real. I know my God and feel him move through my soul every day!–you and your husband keep being that light! God bless!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:38 am |
  11. Ann

    It's obvious that "unusual perceptual experiences" as she calls them occur, and that people who are comfortable with immersing themselves in their imaginations are more likely to report them.

    However, it's a MAJOR jump to conclude that those perceptual experiences = an actual deity.

    Why can't we just accept them as perceptual experiences, and leave it at that? When you hit your head, and see flashing lights, you don't think the lights are actually there, do you?

    January 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • SImran

      Well actually, when I bump my head, I dont see flashing lights – I taste eggs in my mouth.And it is really bad coz I hate eggs.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Why can't YOU accept that it IS possible to experience God? Please understand that this world people are NOT bound by the very narrow confines of your rather lacking, uneducated opinion.

      January 3, 2013 at 3:08 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Decency costs Nothing:

      Why can't YOU accept that it IS impossible to experience God because god DOES not EXIST?

      Please understand that IN this world people are NOT bound by YOUR very narrow uneducated OPINION.

      you BELIEVE you are experiencing gods.. but it is ONLY your imagination – because that is the ONLY place gods EXIST.

      also i LIKE capitalizing words for EMPHASIS but i GENERALLY don't do IT... because it LOOKS retarded.

      cha CHA cha

      January 3, 2013 at 3:51 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Anvil – PROVE IT! I've made my point. YOU rubbished it ERGO the onus is on YOU to prove there's no God.......................I'm waiting?

      January 3, 2013 at 4:39 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Decency costs Nothing:

      i'm aware you're completely unable to grasp this – and i hope you'll argue :

      the onus of evidence will always rest wholly and completely on the shoulders of those who make the positive claim "gods exist" – and it doesn't matter what words you choose to make that statement – or even if you merely imply it.

      what you've just done was attempt to shift the onus of evidence by applying an argument from ignorance.... and blatantly too, i might add.

      "Anvil – PROVE IT! I've made my point. YOU rubbished it ERGO the onus is on YOU to prove there's no God.......................I'm waiting?"

      quoting myself –

      'the statement “gods exist” is a positive claim.

      the statement “gods do not exist” is a negative claim that only responds to the positive one.

      it wouldn't make any sense to anyone except the enemies of reason to go around denouncing the existence of unknown or flatly fictional beings, if there isn't anyone making the positive claim that those things do exist. "

      but – by all means – please – continue to demonstrate your abject delusional ignorance and sheer stupidity on a national public forum..

      January 3, 2013 at 5:01 pm |
  12. The Lord Marvin Flemstein

    If you talk to invisible people, you are insane. Simple as that.

    January 3, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • The Truth

      How about speaking FOR invisible people?

      January 3, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Moby Schtick

      I'll speak to or for any "invisible person" that can somehow otherwise prove their existence by measurable means.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:44 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      Lord Marvin–God isn't a person!

      January 3, 2013 at 12:11 pm |
    • HarryJ

      If you mean dead people, then you have to back up the words you have them say with the actual words they did say in life, recorded reliably. Now, how many words do we have God saying that are reliably recorded?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • DUMBAtheiStS

      @Marvin

      "If you talk to invisible people, you are insane. Simple as that."

      Are you saying that we are all insane?

      January 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm |
  13. Bob

    It's high time that the world put superstitions such as Christianity behind it. Next time you hear someone claim to have heard from a god, or to claim the existence of god, ask them for valid proof that a divine being was involved. Such proof has never, ever been presented.

    No miracle has ever been proven to have been the work of a divine being. No valid proof has ever been presented for the existence of god. Meanwhile, contradictory and wild claims are made for the characteristics and actions of Christian god, that themselves prove under examination that such a god does not exist.

    Stop the god fraud and all the evils and hate and bigotry that are part of Christianity. Demand proof. Here's to less religious idiocy and less religion in 2013.

    January 3, 2013 at 10:35 am |
    • HoneyBobs

      What an idiotic rant!

      January 3, 2013 at 10:43 am |
    • Honey Badger Dont Care

      Right on Bob. I'm behind you all the way. We need to enter the age of reason and put these silly superst itions away.

      Can I get a R'amen?

      January 3, 2013 at 11:04 am |
    • ----------Lori________

      Ahh you are a different Bob than the man who is faith based-well Bob a miracle is something that has no man made reasonable explanation and the person who experiences it knows this and knows the source is beyond human. They can feel obviously what you do not–they FEEL divine providence!

      I can tell you I have had many miracles in my life as I have said before. The fact that you wish to be so minute in detail that you cannot fathom something far greater than yourself or humans having rule in the world shows arrogance. It must be hell to live in a world were there is no sense of utter joy, peace and serenity over something of divine nature. I am glad I am not living that reality.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:05 pm |
    • sam stone

      lori: how about the arrogance displayed when someone says they know what god likes or dislikes?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:29 pm |
    • Really??

      lori
      You have experienced no miracles. There are things you have had happen, that defy YOUR expalination, and you atribute them to a god. Another instance of using ignorance as justification in the belief in god.
      If I gave a lighter to someone from 2000 years ago, they would not understand it, and likely assume it is god magic. It is only ignorance of the technology. Likely that person would not have an explaination, and jump from ignorance to the existance of a god.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
    • Bob

      So by whose standards do you say God cannot be proved I see Him all the time in the miracles and in peoples faces that change after you pray. In so much around me and in life in general that its truly amazing. Its really sad and personally upsetting your lack of faith. What miracles have you seen at all or even claimed miracles that you could see or even understand or attest to that have researched you are a fool plain and simple making blank statements and lies

      January 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      @Bob

      Proved things aren't debated; they're settled. Do you hear much debate over the number two being a number? The reason that god isn't proved is because any action you attribute to your god can be attributed to other gods or nature or a whole list of reasons. If I go around thinking that all the good things in my life prove the existence of fairies, does that mean that faries exist and that they are "proven?"

      January 3, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • SImran

      @ Really?? – You remind me of this fun movie GODS MUST BE CRAZY!

      Bob – Why is my lack of faith personally upsetting you??? Isn't ur own faith not enough for u? Or does the lack of faith by other's make ur intelligence question the validity of ur own faith? Why do u want others to believe in the same stupid fairytales that u believe in?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:51 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Bob: "I see Him all the time in the miracles and in peoples faces that change after you pray"

      it's called confirmation bias.

      take a few moments to google that.

      January 3, 2013 at 1:02 pm |
    • Pete

      " What miracles have you seen at all or even claimed miracles that you could see or even understand or attest to that have researched you are a fool plain and simple making blank statements and lies"

      It's called coincidences that you are trying to use to justify your belief in a God, doesn't mean they are actually true. People who don't believe in a God also have these same types of coincidences. Just because we don't have an explanation doesn't mean it's proof of a God.

      January 3, 2013 at 1:06 pm |
    • sam stone

      "you are a fool plain and simple making blank statements and lies"

      what lies do you speak of?

      "blank" statement? i suppose you are the king of those

      January 3, 2013 at 1:14 pm |
    • Bob

      Proved things aren't debated Schtick
      if you believe in science this would be a foolish statement maybe you had better rethink this statement

      January 3, 2013 at 1:32 pm |
    • lol??

      Of course the atheists have experienced miracles. It just needs to be pointed out to them. Their mama's didn't abort them. She just corrupted them.

      January 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Bob – you flunked history, yes?
      If you understood history you would know that Atheism has been responsible for more deaths, persecution, inhumanity to man and torture in the last 100 YEARS than all the religions in history.

      So quit with the juvenile naive stupidity and accept this – by using Logic, Physics and Reasoning you can prove that God exists and is THE Supreme Creator.

      The New Testament was written by 4 men who worked, lived and KNEW Jesus. The 4 Evangelist Gospels are FIRST hand accounts written by eye witnesses.
      The gospels you lot troll on about [those written 140 years after Jesus died] are the APOCHRYPHAL gospels based on hearsay!
      Before denying God in favor of science, try to understand that science has turned into a monster which is slowly but surely destroying the world. God made man the caretakers of the world HE created. When we go too far with our greed and irresponsibility God will step in.
      Funny how you deny God but find Him useful to blame for anything that goes wrong, eh?

      January 3, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Decency

      try to understand that science has turned into a monster which is slowly but surely destroying the world.

      This is a lie. Scientific progress has lead to less poverty, more longevity, better health, a higher standard of living and a better understanding of humanity, the earth and the universe in the past 100 years than xtianity has in 2000 years. Religion tries to hold back science at every turn because the more educated society becomes, the less likely they are to believe in imaginary deities or books of mythology and magic.

      Of course, feel free to prove your faith in your god – when you get sick, don't go to a doctor or take any medicine, just stay home and pray. And throw away your computer. Because, you know, science.

      January 3, 2013 at 3:57 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Decency costs Nothing ignorantly posits:

      "Atheism has been responsible for more deaths, persecution, inhumanity to man and torture in the last 100 YEARS than all the religions in history..."

      provide evidence of this claim.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:21 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Decency costs Nothing

      "The New Testament was written by 4 men who worked, lived and KNEW Jesus"

      it never ceases to amaze and amuse me how little professed xians actually know about their bibles.

      you, sir.. have demonstrated the most exquisite ignorance. i would admonish you to back up and do some homework... your ideas on the authorship of the new testament is completely wrong.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:29 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Really????

      you cannot tell me what I have experienced-you are not me– I have had God guide me to a specific location and have found things far beyond explanation by anything man-made or known to man. I have traveled 2000 miles from my home based on a whisper after God saved my life–and yes I heard God audibly when I lay there bleeding to death! When I got to my destination in Wyoming–I was given a miracle beyond compare, it is something of epic proportions-verified by the USGS–yes scientists-you may live your world and I will take mine gladly.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:56 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Lori

      Post the paperwork for everyone to see then. Put it out there if you think it is proof of anything.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      Why is the United States Geological Survey verifying your medical history? Was your vag declared a major fault line or something?

      January 3, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • My goodness but you’re stupid

      Decency costs Nothing” If you understood history you would know that Atheism has been responsible for more deaths, persecution, inhumanity to man and torture in the last 100 YEARS than all the religions in history.”

      Until about 200 years ago there were almost no atheists anywhere in the world. For all of recorded human history almost everyone belonged to some religion or another. So all the torture and murder for almost all of recorded history was committed by theists

      January 3, 2013 at 7:36 pm |
    • End Religion

      "Was your vag declared a major fault line or something?"

      I am imagining Lori's tectonic plates shifting... thanks!

      January 3, 2013 at 8:19 pm |
    • Bet

      @ End Religion

      So sorry for the visual but it was just too easy to resist.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:18 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      No no no Bet–the miracle of my medical records is a separate miracle from my USGS miracle–My medical miracle is not that unusual there are hundreds of cases like mine over the years–but it is my miracles and yes I can post some of my medical records of my childbirth near death experience though it was quite personal I will delete some personal info if that will help you believe--but I make you this vow....if ever you truly wanted to know miracles beyond human comprehension my miracles would not disappoint you–but you would have to be open to believing–no-one in their right mind would open their private life to a band of ridicule by people who would disavow everything no matter what they see!!

      January 4, 2013 at 12:10 am |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      Well, I am waiting with bated breath to hear about your miraculous vag. Since the United States government is studying it, it must be the most amazing vag since the Immaculate Conception. Only, what was that you said,

      My medical miracle is not that unusual there are hundreds of cases like mine over the years–but it is my miracles??

      At what point does it cease to be a miracle of god and become an unusual but perfectly normal physiological event? If you're so sure it was god and not medical science that saved your life, why are you even going to doctors? Just stay at home and pray. Once god answers your prayers and you're feeling better, invest the money you saved by taking a class in basic science. If it's not his will to heal you that day, at least your family will have the money to pay for your funeral.

      January 4, 2013 at 1:49 am |
  14. Grundig Glasswerks

    Chad's homies must give him a shasta blasta for each time he posts.

    January 3, 2013 at 10:28 am |
  15. Bob

    Don't you love the atheists telling us that there is no visible proof of God? How shallow are they, but that we as Christians watch the changing of lives, the hope love healing both on the emotions and the phys and say what a great God we serve. They have no constructive or helpful input into society they breath and take up space and don't have nothing to give and usually don't even if they did. They even have to come here to a Christian post and try to destroy the free exchange of ideas between believers. I say if they want to take it here then lets take it to them and show them the true power of God. No longer be silent about the repression they try to inflict but unite and take back what is ours, a country even a post on CNN.

    January 3, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • sam stone

      "They have no constructive or helpful input into society they breath and take up space and don't have nothing to give and usually don't even if they did."

      How many atheists do you know in real life, Boob?

      "I say if they want to take it here then lets take it to them and show them the true power of God"
      Bring it on, boy

      January 3, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • sam stone

      seriously, boy, show us how vindictive, petty and impotent your god really is.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • sam stone

      repression? you poor, poor, pitiful Christian.

      i see your persecution complex is still functioning well

      January 3, 2013 at 10:25 am |
    • Saraswati

      I think the problem that both those you criticize and you yourself have is a failure to distinguish between evidence and proof. What you site is evidence, and depending on your other assumptions could be evidence either for a God or for something else, like the power of the human mind or a universal force. But you are correct in calling it evidence for your beliefs, however others are also correct in counting it as evidence for theirs.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:30 am |
    • Bob

      It's high time that the world put superstitions such as Christianity behind it. Next time you hear someone claim to have heard from a god, or to claim the existence of god, ask them for valid proof that a divine being was involved. Such proof has never, ever been presented.

      No miracle has ever been proven to have been the work of a divine being. No valid proof has ever been presented for the existence of god. Meanwhile, contradictory and wild claims are made for the characteristics and actions of Christian god, that themselves prove under examination that such a god does not exist.

      Stop the god fraud and all the evils and hate and bigotry that are part of Christianity. Demand proof. Here's to less religious idiocy and less religion in 2013.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:37 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Bob", but there is no visible proof of "God". In fact, "Bob", there is no empirical evidence of "God" whatsoever. You see, "Bob", "God" is an element of mythology, and nothing more. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent true statements is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      January 3, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • The Truth

      "show them the true power of God." We have been asking for you to show us for centuries, but because God is a placebo you have millions of personal experiences with their sugar pill remedy, each one differing as greatly as their traditions and the Gods they worship. So if a Muslim, a Hindu and a Christian all have "experienced" their God's power, and yet each one claims the others God cannot exist, why should any reasonable person believe any of them?

      January 3, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Bill

      Bob, there just is no evidence period and really no argument either that can't be easily discreditted. You call it faith for a reason. If you had evidence then you would have what we call the reliably evident and there would be little choice but to accept that reality. The sad part is that you are down on human beings as part of this cult's doctrine and really have given up imagining that good people always will be inclined to do good things. Some do it and credit a god which essentially just makes them husks or marrionettes. Some do it and credit themselves in full knowledge that ultimately it will not have lasting relevance in the cosmos. But they do it anyway for the benefit of the here and now and nothing in your belief system even approaches the beauty of such acts.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      "Don't you love the atheists telling us that there is no visible proof of God?"

      Bob you seem to imply you have visable proof, if you do I would like to know what it is. It you don'e than we are justified saying that aren't we? Oh and make sure if is visable proof of YOUR god.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • Yes, PLEASE, “show us the true power of your god”

      This is what we have been asking for from theists, this is all theists need to do to convert the vast majority of atheists, give us testable verifiable evidence that your god exists. So far you theists are just a bunch talk

      January 3, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Sam miracles that are real you cannot grasp–you do not wish to see anything beyond yourself–I pity any child around an athiest, it would crush their utter joy in the things they see and feel.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • Bet

      @ Lori

      You know who crushed a lot of the joy out of my childhood? Nuns, priests, ministers and other adults who told me from the time I was born that I was a bad person because of Adam and Eve's "sin", who told me to be good or god would punish me both on earth and after I died, who told me that the devil was hiding everywhere just waiting to "get" me, who told me that asking questions about god was sinful. These things made me fearful and timid. I remember crying in bed at night because I was sure I was going to hell. I was about five or six years old at the time.

      Fortunately, I was able to retain strong sense of curiosity and an urge to learn the truth. After several decades of studying the bible and other religious texts, I knew that all of them were made up stories, created to instill fear and to control the superstitious and uneducated.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:31 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Sam miracles that are real you cannot grasp–you do not wish to see anything beyond yourself"
      Okay, how about some scientific peer reviewed confirmation of a miracle

      "I pity any child around an athiest, it would crush their utter joy in the things they see and feel."
      Atheists feel joy, and they would pass that on to their children.
      I pity the child who is told by their parents that they are sinners and need salvation.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • sam stone

      Also, Lori, you know nothing about me, so make a really good attempt at not being such a diseased gash, mmmmkay?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • same old crap from...

      ----Lori________!!! BAD ABUSIVE PARENT-WOULD RATHER LIE TO HER CHILD WITH THE THREAT OF HELL THEN TELL THEM THE TRUTH...FIX THAT BIATCH BEFORE SHE POLLUTES ANY MORE

      January 3, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      same old crap from..-–

      I have never been abusive and your inability to Feel God does not make him not real it makes your inability to feel him not there!

      January 3, 2013 at 4:48 pm |
    • ----------Lori________

      Sam I do not pretend to know you–but you say miracles are not real because you have not experienced them–I say they are because I have–If you are not open to them you will never have them. Love is not seen but it is felt–and it is very real so is God.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:52 pm |
    • sam stone

      "Sam...you do not wish to see anything beyond yourself"
      "Sam I do not pretend to know you"

      You feel you know me enough to believe that I do not wish to see anything beyond myself. Which is untrue, but I suspect
      that you will not be swayed by reason.

      "but you say miracles are not real because you have not experienced them"
      I challenge you, Lori, to point out where I said that.

      Do you religious nutters just have poor comprehension skills, or are you outright liars?

      January 3, 2013 at 11:39 pm |
  16. immolatechina

    "There’s an old joke: When you talk to God, we call it prayer, but when God talks to you, we call it schizophrenia.

    Except that usually it’s not."

    That's why it's a "joke" and "an old" one.

    January 3, 2013 at 9:39 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      You're schizophrenic too?
      That makes 7 of us!

      January 3, 2013 at 9:42 am |
    • immolatechina

      Yes, 1+1=7.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:02 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      My prior comment is what is known as "jocularity".
      The humour hinges on the conflation of schizophrenia with multiple personality disorder and the erroneous assumption that you and I share said psychological disorder.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • JWT

      Since schizophrenia and multiple-personality disorder have nothing to do with each other the humour was lost.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:57 pm |
  17. Dyslexic doG

    There was no Honey BooBoo or Kardashians to watch 2000 years ago, people had to make stuff up to entertain themselves. The Bible is just a collection of the best of those stories. It's like America's Funniest Home Videos from the bronze age. :-)

    January 3, 2013 at 9:37 am |
  18. truth be told

    To accept the Truth of the Bible is to admit that your whole life outside of God has been a lie. Not many are mature enough to do that, certainly not the self deluded "atheists" on these blogs that think so highly of themselves.

    January 3, 2013 at 9:03 am |
    • Eric G

      But, my life is not a lie. I don't think any higher of myself than I do of you.

      Sounds like you have self esteem issues. Please let me know if you require a therapist. I think that would help you. I am sure one of the godless heathens on this blog could refer you to someone.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:08 am |
    • Primewonk

      Again, which "truths" of your bible are we talking about? That pi = 3.0? That rabbits chew their cud? That the earth was formed before any stars? That all humans descended from a single breeding pair? That a woman was formed from the fib of a man? That a billion cubic miles of water covered the earth 4, 000 years ago?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:09 am |
    • truth be told

      When confronted with Truth liars come out of the woodwork.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:11 am |
    • Eric G

      Truth? What truth have you presented and what evidence do you have to verify?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:13 am |
    • Live4Him

      @Primewonk: That dinos co-existed with mankind? Oh, that's right! Dino soft tissue has been found recently.And soft tissue only survives for 10,000 years in temperate environments.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:15 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Live4Him
      How old do you believe the Earth to be?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:24 am |
    • sam stone

      "To accept the Truth of the Bible is to admit that your whole life outside of God has been a lie."

      snivelling sycophant....get back on your knees and beg like a slave, b1tch

      January 3, 2013 at 9:44 am |
    • Primewonk

      @ Live4Him – except, of course, that isn't the truth.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:48 am |
    • little timmy

      Live4Him

      My daddy says that's just a bumper sticker

      January 3, 2013 at 9:50 am |
    • immolatechina

      @Doc

      What's the connection? Do you think that Earth and Dinos have exactly the same birthday, do you?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • Primewonk

      trutht be told wrote, "When confronted with Truth liars come out of the woodwork."

      I listed several "truths" from your bible that are flat out lies. It appears that it is you who is the liar.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:53 am |
    • immolatechina

      Yes I do. Why you're asking?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:56 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @ImmolateChina
      Generally speaking, those who contend that humans and dinosaurs lived side by side are Young Earth Creationists.
      I understand that there are holdovers from ancient times, like crocodiles and coelocanths – but I'm curious about Live4Him's belief regarding the age of the Earth.
      Just becuase the Creation Museum has animatronic raptors gallavanting about with humans, that doesn't make it so.
      The Flintstones was not a docu.mentary series.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:18 am |
    • tallulah13

      If only there were any evidence that the supernatural events of the bible took place! Then everyone would believe. Sadly, there is no such evidence.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • My theology was a total lie back when I was a christian

      A lie is something that is contradictory to all available evidence and christianiyt certainly qualifies as such

      January 3, 2013 at 1:20 pm |
    • End Religion

      It's quite the awesome display of hypocrisy that all of religion is based on lies, and all of its adherents are here daily, lying over and over, yet it is apparently one of the worst sins they can commit since it is a coveted Top 10 Sin.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:31 pm |
  19. Blonde, honest and happy

    For many Christians out there I suppose I owe you an appology.

    I probably also should have taken your advice and read the bible because I hate to see the atheists berating and not being able to argue that book in any way.

    The point is...

    I chose to pray to Jesus because of the feeling of peace I get. No amount of argument about a book I dont even read is going to sway me from my place of peacful energy.

    It is a decision based on intuition. I'm not doing anything I don't want to do, I'm not anywhere I don't want to be.

    I'm in support of marriage equality, my best friend is gay and we work on many paintings and sculptures together.

    I am not wanting to take away your rights, I"m honestly not that political.

    I do not hear voices. I am sane, perhaps maybe not the smartest cookie in the box but I am okay.

    Fuss at me all you want my inner life is my inner life.

    Peace to you.

    January 3, 2013 at 8:59 am |
    • Live4Him

      Why do you suppose that you feel this peace when you pray to Jesus?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:06 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      do you feel the same peace when you write your annual letter to Santa?

      January 3, 2013 at 9:32 am |
    • immolatechina

      Yes I do. Why you ask?

      January 3, 2013 at 10:05 am |
    • SImran

      @Blonde,
      U feel peace praying to Jesus because that is how you got conditioned in childhood. Had u been born in another part of the world, u would have found the same peace with Allah!
      Just saying....
      U are ent.itled to find your peace as u like.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:13 am |
    • The Truth

      If you haven't read the book try praying to Zeus and see if that gives you the same sense of peace, for it is the act of heartfelt contemplation and self review during prayer which are the only real active forces at work.

      January 3, 2013 at 11:08 am |
    • End Religion

      Don't forget to change your name back when posting under multiple monikers...

      January 3, 2013 at 8:36 pm |
  20. Live4Him

    @AnViL "the text in the bible will NEVER be evidence of the veracity of anything in the bible." If the archeological evidence supports the Bible, why do you refuse to accept it?

    January 3, 2013 at 8:37 am |
    • Eric G

      You will need to provide specific references.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:46 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      In the mid 1800's, William Kennett Loftus uncovered arceological evidence of Kingdom of Uruk.
      That does not, however, make the Epic of Gilgamesh historical fact.
      There was likely a King named Gilgamesh, but it is doubtful that he ruled for 125 years, visited the Underworld, or was 3/4 divine.
      There are lots of artifacts from ancient Greece, but that doesn't make The Iliad literally true.

      January 3, 2013 at 8:58 am |
    • Dyslexic doG

      Without Honey BooBoo or the Kardashians to watch 2000 years ago, people had to make stuff up to entertain themselves. The Bible is just a collection of the best of those stories. It's like America's Funniest Home Videos from the bronze age. :-)

      January 3, 2013 at 9:36 am |
    • immolatechina

      The Holy Bible is a word of God. Honey BooBoo and The Kardashian aren't entertaining.

      January 3, 2013 at 9:45 am |
    • Blessed are the Cheesemakers

      The fact that Spiderman lives in New York does not therefore make SPiderman real.

      January 3, 2013 at 10:56 am |
    • tallulah13

      A city believed to be Troy was discovered using clues from the Iliad. Why do you not believe in Zeus?

      January 3, 2013 at 11:00 am |
    • the AnViL

      "If the archeological evidence supports the Bible, why do you refuse to accept it?"

      what archeological (sic) "evidence" are you referring to?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • mama k

      And if you do supply archaeological evidence – please also explain in what ways you think it supports the Bible; for instance – does it support any supernatural occurrence? And if so, how does it support that?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:19 pm |
    • the AnViL

      yeah – what mama k asked.

      if there was archaeological evidence... how would that support anything considered supernatural – like supposed miracles?

      January 3, 2013 at 12:23 pm |
    • the AnViL

      *disclaimer: any archaeological evidence of the historicity in the bible will never be evidence of the claims within the bible.

      for instance – there is no archaeological evidence of gods, jebus, a global deluge, etc.

      January 3, 2013 at 12:40 pm |
    • Talakah

      @Tallulah

      Trojan god was Apollo. Get your facts straight!

      January 3, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • Decency costs Nothing

      Recent archaeological discovery in the Holy Land – 4,500 year old Jewish artefacts including 'finds' from the palace of King David [the then king of the Jews] THAT supports the Bible.

      The New Testament of the Bible was written by the 4 Evangelists who lived worked with and knew Jesus. Theirs is FIRST HAND witness to the Son of God. St John stood at the foot of the Cross with Jesus' Mother when Jesus died.

      Atheists drone on about the Bible being written 140 years after Jesus died so consequently has no value. This ignorance only impresses those [equally ignorant] who base their opinions on false information. They are quoting the Apochryphal gospels written 40 years after Jesus – NOT the word of the first hand witnesses. See how they twist the facts?

      Atheists dismiss the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, Portugal as being :
      Catholics being brainwashed
      Mass hypnosis
      Mass hysteria.............................................funny that 98% of the 70,000 witnesses – and the reporter who recorded it – were communists and Atheists!!!!!!!! Portugal was a Communist/Atheist country till then, but became Catholic after the miracle.

      Look up the Miracles at Lourdes. Jack Traynor Royal Marine cured there and Gabriel Gargam along with thousands of others.

      Go away and educate yourselves before spouting juvenile claptrap!

      January 3, 2013 at 4:25 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Talakah:

      Zeus decided the fate of Troy. Read the Iliad. It's all there.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:30 pm |
    • the AnViL

      Decency costs Nothing

      "The New Testament was written by 4 men who worked, lived and KNEW Jesus"

      you are so blatantly wrong it's utterly comical.

      once again you have demonstrated the most exquisite ignorance. i would again admonish you to back up and do some homework... your ideas on the authorship of the new testament are completely wrong.

      January 3, 2013 at 4:33 pm |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93

Post a comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.