Editor's Note: Tanya Marie (“T.M.”) Luhrmann is a psychological anthropologist and the Watkins University professor in the department of anthropology at Stanford University in Stanford, California. She is the author of "When God Talks Back: Understanding the American Evangelical Relationship with God."
By T.M. Luhrmann, Special to CNN
(CNN)—In the Bible, God spoke directly to Abraham. He spoke directly to Moses. He spoke directly to Job. But to your neighbor down the street?
Most people reading the ancient scriptures understand these accounts of hearing God’s voice as miracles that really did happen but no longer take place today, or maybe as folkloric flourishes to ancient stories. Even Christians who believe that miracles can be an everyday affair can hesitate when someone tells them they heard God speak audibly. There’s an old joke: When you talk to God, we call it prayer, but when God talks to you, we call it schizophrenia.
Except that usually it’s not.
Hearing a voice when alone, or seeing something no one else can see, is pretty common. At least one in 10 people will say they’ve had such an experience if you ask them bluntly. About four in 10 say they have unusual perceptual experiences between sleep and awareness if you interview them about their sleeping habits.
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And if you ask them in a way that allows them to admit they made a mistake, the rate climbs even higher. By contrast, schizophrenia, the most debilitating of all mental disorders, is pretty rare. Only about one in 100 people can be diagnosed with the disorder.
Moreover, the patterns are quite distinct. People with schizophrenia who hear voices hear them frequently. They often hear them throughout the day, sometimes like a rain of sound, or a relentless hammer. They hear not only sentences, but paragraphs: words upon words upon words. What the voices say is horrid—insults, sneers and contemptuous jibes. “Dirty. You’re dirty.” “Stupid slut.” “You should’ve gone under the bus, not into it.”
That was not what Abraham, Moses and Job experienced, even when God was at his most fierce.
For the last 10 years, I have been doing anthropological and psychological research among experientially oriented evangelicals, the sort of people who seek a personal relationship with God and who expect that God will talk back. For most of them, most of the time, God talks back in a quiet voice they hear inside their minds, or through images that come to mind during prayer. But many of them also reported sensory experiences of God. They say God touched their shoulder, or that he spoke up from the back seat and said, in a way they heard with their ears, that he loved them. Indeed, in 1999, Gallup reported that 23% of all Americans had heard a voice or seen a vision in response to prayer.
These experiences were brief: at the most, a few words or short sentences. They were rare. Those who reported them reported no more than a few of them, if that. These experiences were not distressing, although they were often disconcerting and always startling. On the contrary, these experiences often made people feel more intimate with God, and more deeply loved.
In fact, my research has found that these unusual sensory experiences are more common among those who pray in a way that uses the imagination—for example, when prayer involves talking to God in your mind. The unusual sensory experiences were not, in general, associated with mental illness (we checked).
They were more common among those who felt comfortable getting caught up in their imaginations. They were also more common among those who prayed for longer periods. Prayer involves paying attention to words and images in the mind, and giving them significance. There is something about the skilled practice of paying attention to the mind in this way that shifts—just a little bit—the way we judge what is real.
Yet even many of these Christians, who wanted so badly to have a back-and-forth relationship with God, were a little hesitant to talk about hearing God speak with their ears. For all the biblical examples of hearing God speak audibly, they doubt. Augustine reports that when he was in extremis, sobbing at the foot of that fig tree, he heard a voice say, “Take it and read.” He picked up the scripture and converted. When the Christians I know heard God speak audibly, it often flitted across their minds that they were crazy.
In his new book, "Hallucinations," the noted neurologist Oliver Sacks tells his own story about a hallucinatory experience that changed his life. He took a hearty dose of methamphetamines as a young doctor, and settled down with a 19th century book on migraines. He loved the book, with its detailed observation and its humanity. He wanted more. As he was casting around in his mind for someone who could write more that he could read, a loud internal voice told him “You silly bugger” that it was he. So he began to write. He never took drugs again.
Now, Sacks does not recommend that anyone take drugs like that. He thinks that what he did was dangerous and he thinks he was lucky to have survived.
What interests me, however, is that he allowed himself to trust the voice because the voice was good. There’s a distinction between voices associated with psychiatric illness (often bad) and those (often good) that are found in the so-called normal population. There’s another distinction between those who choose to listen to a voice, if the advice it gives is good, and those who do not. When people like Sacks hear a voice that gives them good advice, the experience can transform them.
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This is important, because often, when voices are discussed in the media or around the kitchen table, the voices are treated unequivocally as symptoms of madness. And of course, voice-hearing is associated with psychiatric illness.
But not all the time. In fact, not most of the time.
About a third of the people I interviewed carefully at the church where I did research reported an unusual sensory experience they associated with God. While they found these experiences startling, they also found them deeply reassuring.
Science cannot tell us whether God generated the voice that Abraham or Augustine heard. But it can tell us that many of these events are normal, part of the fabric of human perception. History tells us that those experiences enable people to choose paths they should choose, but for various reasons they hesitate to choose.
When the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sat at his kitchen table, in the winter of 1956, terrified by the fear of what might happen to him and his family during the Montgomery bus boycott, he said he heard the voice of Jesus promising, “I will be with you.” He went forward.
Voices may form part of human suffering. They also may inspire human greatness.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of TM Luhrmann.
In the Old Testament, when God spoke to people, he was PHYSICALLY there. For some strange reason, Christians believe that God is just a spirit of some sort. There is a "Helper" that Jesus said was coming and was later described as the Holy Spirit, but this was not the God of Abraham or Jesus would have said that it was God not a Helper.
People that claim to "Hear from God" are nuts. They're hearing what they want to hear inside their minds. Crazy people do this.
Boy are off your rocker and don't know the scriptures at all.
blob: thaks for proving agnosticprime's point
Sam I cant even be upset with you, I have a dog in this fight, your here because of some conspiracy by Christians to take over the world and stop you from going to bars and drinking yourself under the table and I'm nuts?
Actually, Bob has proved himself time and time again to get nuts. Fortune teller about others he is not.
and be nuts
"your here because of some conspiracy by Christians to take over the world and stop you from going to bars and drinking yourself under the table and I'm nuts?"
so, you know why i am here, do you?
i do not drink.
and you are nuts.
now, b1tch, get back on your knees and beg your petty, vindictive punk god for forgiveness
jeebus paid the price so you don't have to grow a set and deal with his pr1ck daddy. what a maroon
What I do know is you have no life, No one around you wants to talk to you and your grand illusions about chasing this religion thing down is all a obsession in your own mind. A child's delusion based on destruction rather than building up is sad sorry little person and needs a life. A legend in his own mind that is a joke to everyone else. It is truly a shame that you are trying to save the world when you cant even save yourself.
blob: don't you have to grovel for your salvation?
you speak in circles. you make a$$umptions about other people's motives.
you are a clown.
now, dance little clown
Blob = A legend in his own mind that is a joke to everyone else
Sam I don't have to dance like you I'm not a dead man walking I'm saved and know Who I serve. I am not the one being on a board that talks about a subject that I have no knowledge of. I offer hope you offer insults death and separation from God. So its not me but you who is out of their element making a pitch for death and trying to drag all those who are ignorant with me. Misery loves company sam which is your motive to drag all those or anyone who will listen, to no hope, no love, no help just to death.
What really amazes me is you call everyone else nuts and you think of yourself as a knight on a shining horse doing the public a service what a fruit cake.
While we are at it, punk, i do not call everyone else nuts. Just a few selected nuts. You and Gopher are primary among them.
you do not offer people hope....you make empty threats.
fvck you and your pr1ck god
" It is truly a shame that you are trying to save the world when you cant even save yourself." Saved from what Bob? Our sun isn't supposed to die out for another 5 billion years, and I hadn't heard of any asteroids heading this way. Oh, that's right, you are delusional and are trying to convince everyone that they were born into sin and they should be attempting to save their afterlife which doesn't make sense since we have absolutely ZERO evidence of an afterlife.
The sad insane religious invent your soul, place it in peril, then charge you for saving it.
Numerous studies indicate that quite a few people hear occassional voices. It's no nuttier really than the "movies" most of us participate in when sleeping. What one attributes any voices he or she hears to is another matter. Just like dreams, one would attribute the voices based on past experiences and beliefs. So when you call hearing or dreaming of god crazy it's really the god believe at root that's being called crazy. There's nothing special about the other components. I don't believe in god, but neither do I think such a belief meets the requirements for mental illness.
Bob you are stone cold crazy. Children understand there is no god unless they've been warped to think so. Yet here you are, a shameful grown man, groveling and speaking to Leprechauns. Goodness. Meanwhile you let every wolf wrapped in religious garb fleece you left and right. Gee, it's almost as if you *want* to be fleeced so you can cry "Persecution!" Why don't you get help for your martyrdom complex.
An emotion comparable to surprise that people feel when perceiving something rare or unexpected.
That's what God is. It's a good thing.
Great Stories!!! However they should be in the fiction section at the Library; not discrediting anyone or Ms. Luhrman. Everyone should presue they're interest to have a full and enjoyable life. It takes a village; right. So don't discredit others and don't think your view is worhty of credit. Listen and reflect but don't think for a minute god going to protect you from others who's elevator doesn't quit go to the top. Mosses and Jobs folklure written 100 plus years after Jesus is hardly reliable. Today most people have difficult time remembering twenty years ago and that's well nurished and sitting in a lazyboy recliner with the AC set on 72! Tell yourself for yourself but don't try to sale feelings and voices as directives from god. Good Luck
It looks like you are wrong in your dating of the time span in the death of Jesus and the time the Bible books were actually written. Generally,Mark is said to be the earliest gospel with an authorship of between A.D. 55 to A.D. 70.The John Rylands papyrus fragment 52 of John's gospel dated in the year 125-135 contains portions of John 18, verses 31-33,37-38. This fragment was found in Egypt. It is the last of the gospels and appears to have been written in the 80's to 90's. Most scholars say it was written in the early 90's. This means that the time span between the original writing of John and its earliest copy is approximately 35-45 years.As far as dating the gospel goes,Luke was written before the book of Acts and Acts does not mention Nero's persecution of the Christians in A.D. 64 or the deaths of James (A.D. 62), Paul (A.D. 64), and Peter (A.D. 65) Therefore, we can conclude that Luke was written before A.D. 62. Luke's Gospel comes (Acts 1:1) before the Acts. The date of Acts is still in dispute, but the early date (about A.D. 63) is gaining support constantly.Jesus died on Friday, April 3, 33AD, according to an investigation which matches his death to an earthquake.The International Geology Review, looked at earthquake activity around the Dead Sea, which is around 13 miles from Jerusalem.The Gospel of Matthew, Chapter 27, says that as Jesus lay dying on the cross, an earthquake shook the area, scattering graves and making the sky go dark and of course the people in the town started to see dead relatives that came to life. Thank you Jesus.
Matthew lived many years as an apostle, since he was the author of the Gospel of Matthew which was written at least twenty years after the death of Christ. There is reason to believe that he stayed for fifteen years at Jerusalem, Simon surnamed Peter died 33-34 years after the death of Christ. According to Smith’s Bible Dictionary there is satisfactory evidence that he and Paul were the founders of the church at Rome, and died in that city. According to the early writers, he died at or about the same time with Paul, A.D. 67,68. All agree that he was crucified. Paul travelled widely, made at least three major mission journeys, wrote many letters of which thirteen still exist, and his life and work is touched upon in a variety of ways in his letters. On returning to Jerusalem after his third journey, he was arrested and during his trials, as a Roman citizen appealed to Caesar. All covered by Acts 21-26. Chapters 27 and 28 then describe Paul's voyage and journey to Rome in detail. In his cell, he wrote his last letter – the Second Letter to Timothy before execution around the year AD67.The Gospel of Luke is one of four Gospels in the Holy Bible and is the third book presented in the New Testament. The author of this Gospel, Luke, was an associate of the Apostle Paul and also the author of the book of Acts. Acts is the first book to follow the four Gospels in the Bible. Luke was a doctor and probably well educated according to the style of writing and structure of his text. The Gospel of Luke is specifically addressed to an individual named Theophilus and is focused on the complete story and history of Jesus Christ from His birth and ministry to His crucifixion and resurrection.
I'm alive that's my proof
that's a pretty low standard of "proof", ronnie
My Take: If you hear God speak audibly to you, you are bat-guano coo coo clock cray cray.
If one professes that Elvis contacts them inside of their skulls, we do not hesitate to slowly back away without making any sudden movements. I fail to see how replacing "Elvis" with "Jehovah" makes the slightest bit of difference.
Hallucinations – the person has invisible friends who (s)he insists are real, and to whom (s)he speaks daily, even though nobody can actually see or hear
Delusions – the patient believes that the invisible friends have magical powers to make them rich, cure cancer, bring about world peace, and will do so eventually if asked.
Denial/Inability to learn – though the requests for world peace remain unanswered, even after hundreds of years, the patients persist with the praying behaviour, each time expecting different results.
Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality – the beliefs are contingent upon ancient mythology being accepted as historical fact.
Paranoia – the belief that anyone who does not share their supernatural concept of reality is "evil," "the devil," "an agent of Satan".
Emotional abuse – religious concepts such as sin, hell, cause feelings of guilt, shame, fear, and other types of emotional "baggage" which can scar the
psyche for life.
will everyone finally stop ranting on this board? 84 pages of the same stuff. Stop commenting, and CNN will finally put this verbosity on the back pages and then the archives where it belongs. Then they will put up a new article. This one is worn out, okay?
There is a great force for good in and beyond the world. It DOES communicate. http://www.newmessage.org/nm/the-voice-of-the-revelation/
If anyone has the time I encourage you to go to this site and listen to the audio file at top of page. This is comedy gold. When people wonder what, as an atheist, I have to live for, I have to say that comedy this good makes life worth living. I laughed for a good minute or 2. I think I only stopped laughing when it occurred to me people may actually believe this horseshit and send the web site owner some money, but hey, a fool and his cash, you know?
That was great. I laughed every time he said "Revela...tion".
My favorite part:
"There is one thing God cannot be, and that is not God, which is a very peculiar thing regarding your existence, for Creation cannot not really be Creation, and you are part of Creation."
You can't make this stuff up....oh wait. Never mind.
It was like a bad Saturday Night Live skit. I couldn't tell at first if it was a joke or not. I was laughing about it and my 15 year old daughter asked what I was laughing at so I shared it with her and she started rolling on the floor laughing. To think that these people demand respect for this absurdity is nearly unfathomable, and not only do they want respect, they want religion to be cherished above other human pursuits. Simply amazing. Anyway, glad you enjoyed it!
Holy Fucking Shit!
Did you sit through, and listen to, the entire thing? All 30 minutes of that drivel? I applaud you. You must have far more patience for boundless ignorance than I have.
Gen 1:26 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Gen 1:28 God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
We question where God is our trials yet we seem to forget we are His ambassadors here on earth and also caretakers. God in the Holy Spirit and Jesus live inside that is the Kingdom of God not what we see because all that we see will perish, but our spirit will live on with Him. How many times do we avoid spending time with God and seeking Him on questions and decisions in life? Each one we never know the chain of events that will unfold because of it. God is not distant, God hears but we also as ambassadors have to know what the ruler of the country wants and says to do. There is so much more to the Kingdom of God than just church on Sunday but we have to seek and find the answers go deeper. The Bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge not because of power or anything we see but lack of knowledge. We need to know, what needs to be done and know we have the tools at our disposal to do it and how to use those tools. Otherwise we never know truly who we are in Christ. Learning to use what God has given us is one of the greatest adventures in life, seek and you will find when you seek with all your heart all your strength and all your might.
I'm sorry, "Bob", but all that, including most of the words with capital letters are elements of mythology, therefore your entire post is unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...
Sounds like a lot of conjecture, Bob
Bob how the air was made please?
Another question for you do numbers sin ?
The soul is on the bottom of shoe.
Humann death = deplited carbon.
Plus you are in a test tube EVOLVING. News Release Jan 30 2013
Creation and the talking snaking does not work.
How did the gold show up Bob?
In evolution, "Science", how did we get male and female knowing what we know now?
3-D structure of the evolved enzyme (an RNA ligase), using 10 overlaid snapshots. In the top region, the overlays show the range of bending and folding flexibility in the amino acid chain that forms the molecule. The two gray balls are zinc ions. (University of Minnesota)
University of Minnesota researchers unveil first artificial enzyme created by evolution in a test tube
Oops depleted above
Christian god is nowhere and does not exist. Christianity has never, ever delivered on its promises. It is a giant fraud and ponzi scheme. A fairy tale indeed, albeit a nasty one.
Some good news is that Christianity is in steep decline in our country, and holds less sway in others than it used to. Here's to that trend continuing and the whole Christian supersti-tion fading into sorry history. It's a slow process, but the decline of the evil supersti-tion known as Christianity is happening steadily.
The best news is that silly little trolls like you have finally found something to focus your deranged hate on–Christians. And just as the last groups of militant Atheists, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, you will soon begin to kill us. But some of us aren't "That Kind of Christians" and you will finally get what you want. Keep pushing "Bob". Keep pushing.
Bumbling Thomas must not realize that Hitler was a devout Christian. He must not also realize that people who lived under various dictatorships were not necessarily atheist and did not kill in the name of atheism. However, at various times, people of different religion have killed in the name of their respective religions.
The bad news is that the fight for abandoned ground will likely be between non believers, new age spiritualists and Islam. Who wins will depend on a lot more than rational arguments.
tommie boy: my heart weeps for you poor, poor, put upon christians.
You are such a bigoted azz Hitler was not only atheist but gay as well you need to get a brain and use it.
"......Hitler was not only atheist but gay as well you need to get a brain....." Comedy gold from Bob can happen at any hour – the Pigeon Chess Grand Master is up early today.
I'm sorry, "Bob" and "Thomas", but Adolph Hitler was a Christian, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".
I thought that this would have been abundantly clear who Hitler was, but when you speak the same ideals I guess there may be a little problem. Since your ideas align with one of the most horrific mass murders that ever was you may not want to see the truth. If we forget, then it can happen again, maybe you should really shut your mouths. A major reason Hitler opposed Christianity was because Hitler saw Christianity and Science as opposed to each other. He concluded science would win,and the Christian church would eventually in due time be destroyed.Hitler even believed science was the creation of the German race.Hitler was trying to use science especially Darwinism to create a utopia on Earth, and he made it absolutely clear that there would be no place in this utopia for the Christian Churches in his plans for the future of Germany. He realized that this was a long term goal and was prepared to put off long-term ideological goals in favor of short-term advantage. Only after the war would Germany be able to fully implement the final solution to the Christian problem. In the meantime, calm should be restored in relations with the Churches. When Hitler also had his book burning why did he ask for Bibles to be burned if he was a Christian? He was a atheist, gay, Nazi who was demonically controlled with his own power and lust for control. He didn't care for the individual and was fully deluded in his own mind not able to come to the truth of his condition spurred on by the whole German population. We should learn that its not the masses that always know the truth that's why you are also sheep following mans teachings rather than God in what He says. But that doesn't make it right learn from history when a whole country went mad.
Absolute pigeon chess nonsense, Bob. Folks, ya cant make this stuff up.
I'm sorry, "Bob", but your assertions regarding Adolf Hitler are unfounded. Adolf Hitler was a devout Christian. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
Bob, Thomas, Hitler is well established to have been a Christian. He made this clear on multiple occassions and throughout his writing. Idi Amin was Muslim. Evil is fairly well spread around; you can't just assume anyone who you don't like belongs to the group you don't like. That's not how reality works.
Hitler was a Christian who did not like atheism.
"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out." Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people." Adolf Hitler, April 26, 1933
And on Feburary 1, 1933 Hitler delivered a speech in which he promised to restore "family...honor and loyalty, Volk and Vaterland, culture and economy" and recover "the eternal foundation of our morality and our faith." Hitler further declares a "merciless war against spiritual, political, and cultural nihilism."
Hitler was a real Christian.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. " Hitler, April 12, 1922
The denomination of Christianity he belonged to was Catholicism.
"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
– Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.I'll make these persons feel the power of the state in a way they would have never believed possible. For the moment, I am just keeping my eye upon them,if I ever have the slightest idea that they are getting to be a problem, I will eliminate the lot of them. This filthy reptile raises its head whenever there is a sign of weakness in the State, and therefore it must be stamped on. We have no sort of use for a fairy story invented by the Jews.
You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools. You really want confusion? Randy Alley, one of my best WWII history sources, noted that the SS were supposedly forbidden to believe in God–yet the military's belt buckles said "Gott mit uns" ("God is with us")
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. 14th October, 1941, The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity. And that's why someday its structure will collapse.the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar. We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. 19th October, 1941, The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity. 21st October, 1941, Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. 14th December, 1941,It should also be noted that he had many thousands of Catholic priests and protestant ministers in concentration camps.
WHEN YOU SPEAK THE SAME IDEALS I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO DISTANCE YOURSELF FROM IT. SINCE IT WAS THE CREATION AND FORMATION OF THESE FALSE HATEFUL, IDEALS THAT LEAD SO MANY TO BE DESTROYED AND ALMOST A WHOLE WORLD. YOU ARE FOLLOWING IN YOUR LEADERS FOOTSTEPS.
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... "
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922
(quacks like a Christian, makes up his own rules and claims it as proper interpretation of the fairy tale book like each of the members of the over 30,000 denominations . . . . yeah – he was a Christian)
Hitler There is something very unhealthy about Christianity 27th February, 1942,
One can easily think of Hitler as the average conflicted Christian. They constantly tell each other that they are not Christians. This thread is proof that, with respect to clarity on Christian tenets, Hitler was par for the course.
The church is certainly necessary for the people. It is a strong and conservative element, he might say at one time or another in this private circle. However, he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him. If only Reibi this was his nickname for Reich Bishop Ludwig Müller had some kind of stature. But why do they appoint a nobody of an army chaplain? I'd be glad to give him my full support. Think of all he could do with that. Through me the Evangelical [Protestant] Church could become the established church, as in England."
very difficult to follow when the 2 Bobs are going at it. Could you rename yourselves "Smart Bob" and "Dumb Bob"? I'd even settle for "North-Going Zax" and "South-Going Zax"
ER: I think they are going to have a bob off
There are actually at least 3 Bob's, and there is no god.
Saraswati, re the battleground, yes, I fear that you are right re the likely events to come.
Where was God when my 2 week old son died last summer? No where to be found. Where was God when Hilter slaughtered millions. No where to be found. Where was God when that evil little SOB walked into Sandy Hook and massacred all of those innocent children. Again, no where to be found.
It's time to end the fairy tale that there is a god. I used to attend church and believe until I found myself in my darkest hour and prayed and prayed for my dying baby and all I got was a disconnected telephone number. I'm personally done with the myth. I don't know what happens after this world and neither does anyone else.
It's funny religious people will tell you that when you pray and something happens, it must be because of god. But when you pray and things don't work out, well it's because that wasnt part of god's plan. It's the biggest con game in the history of mankind.
First off, I'm very, very sorry for the pain you feel over your son. What I'm about to say isn't some sort of sermon, and I'm not trying to cheapen your grief or anything like that. I'm just going to explain how these things happen beneath the watch of God (according to religious beliefs). Death is not a bad thing in religion. According to "the myth" as you called it, the only ones that suffer with death are the condemned and the ones left behind here in our world. Those that believe, believe that innocent people (especially children) immediately make it into Heaven. So, that's how those things happen. And I'm sure you've heard that before. I hope you find peace, sir, whether it be with my God or any God, or no God at all. You're obviously hurting, and angry, and I hope time will ease that anger and hurt.
Death is not the end, and your child is more happier now than what you could have made them. They are actually looking at the face of God and in the presence of God with all the peace love and joy that we who are left behind can only catch a glimpse of. Don't allow anger to separate you from God allow it to drive you to Him because He does have all the answers. He has not forgotten you either just let all the pain and hurt drop for a moment and just listen. He has been speaking but the turmoil from inside has made it hard to hear Him. In our time of need we need to be prepared knowing the promises of God and knowing His voice so we can sift through all the emotional struggling to hear that quiet loving voice to bring peace to the situation and eventually resolve. I am sorry for your loss and hope my words don't hurt please forgive me if they do because it is what I had to do when life took a bad turn for me.
Mike, indeed, Christian god is nowhere and does not exist. Christianity has never, ever delivered on its promises. It is a giant fraud and ponzi scheme. A fairy tale indeed, albeit a nasty one.
The good news is that Christianity is in steep decline in our country, and holds less sway in others than it used to. Here's to that trend continuing and the whole Christian supersti-tion fading into sorry history. It's a slow process, but the decline of the evil supersti-tion known as Christianity is happening steadily.
The second Bob is right on. How people fall for the Christian scam has always amazed me. And then look at what (and who) their priests get caught doing.
The above post is not me what a sad person. You could have used another post to do this sort of thing instead of here another brick in the wall for atheists showing no help or feelings for others
Mike, sorry for your loss. I can't imagine it. Good luck to you in the future. Congrats on breaking free from religion.
It might sound harsh, and people like the other Bobs of the world will cling to their sick god delusions in their standard gutless ways, but it helps when people show enough courage to reveal the Christian god fraud for what it is, a giant scam that has bilked people of millions of dollars, inhibited social and scientific progress, and generally hurt humanity.
The good news is that Christianity is in decline in our country, and holds less sway in others than it used to. Here's to that trend continuing and the whole Christian supersti-tion fading into sorry history. It's a slow process, but the decline of the evil supersti-tion known as Christianity is happening steadily.
God was in the holocaust, sandy hook, and he was still there when your son died and I'm sorry for that but try not to get angry over that because God does allow some tragedies to happen but it's all for a REASON. Try reading this article. http://www.christianitytoday.com/le/2012/july-online-only/doesgodallowtragedy.html
Matthew, stop pushing your disgusting god fraud at us with your blogspam. Shouting at us about "reason" is also rather ironic in the context of your Christian fairy tales that are contradicted by ready evidence and science.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement.
Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
You guys are disgusting I cannot even believe the low life uncaring behavior it is beyond comprehension the behavior of these atheists. I hope you get what you sow and then lets see what you have to say. God does allow things but it is because we make the choices not to follow Him and what He says. We have come along way from the days that respect and caring were in the world. He said I set before you life and death choose life.
I wish they would confine these boards to US citizens we could take off some of the garbage.
ChristardBob: yeah, yeah, we'll rue the day. Heard it plenty. Nice loving religion you got there.
Censorship generally only benefits the ones who get to chose what is allowed and what is not. All voices deserve to be heard, even those we don't like. Of course, what you say can and will be criticized. That is what freedom is all about.
This Euro trash that is here has no compassion on anyone different point of view is OK a outright disrespect and uncaring is not. The posts here for this person didn't have to be done here they would have been just as valid in another part of this post except we could have respected this persons feelings and hard times. Europe has long since been in decline as far as religion and has a much different view of it. I find most don't have the sense to pound sand in a rat hole and forget that if not for America and its views would have a much different out come and most would be talking German.
Unfortunately in hard times you start to learn compassion and caring for others so I hope you start to learn this compassion today.
Way to go, Christian Bob, calling others "trash". That's very typically Christian of you. Your religion is in its dying days and you are a fool.
"Death is not the end, and your child is more happier now than what you could have made them."
Seems like a lot of conjecture there, Bob
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited."
Blob blathers: "Death is not the end, and your child is more happier now than what you could have made them."
The incredible stupidity and insensitivity of this azzwipe know no bounds.
If some thumper said this to me, I'd feed him his balls.
If you truly believe that, Blob, why don't you put your sidearm in your mouth and go meet your savior? Are you truly that much of a coward? The last question was rhetorical, of course you are
God has spoken to me on a handful of occasions. That is not much if you consider that I have believed for 30 years, but He did speak and what what He said came true. I hear a few words but it is difficult to describe how it is like. I also have to say that I am NOT one who seek spiritual experience; instead, I let it happen. Christians should not actively expect God to speak to us the way we want it. otherwise we may be mistaken. With too many mistakes come confusion and discouragement.
This book, Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's Will, looks at real-life problems that we face in prayer, as well as seeking God's will. It then present biblical truths NOT realized before – truths that we can see and apply in our human journey. By clarifying wrong notions about prayer and God’s will. it will change the way you see – and seek – God’s will. When faith is strengthened by knowledge and understanding, we will go on to pray and serve God with conviction. Learn more about the book at: http://www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=9781620241431
There are 12 chapters in this book:
1. Inner Doubts
2. What does the Bible mean?
3. Prayer: What did Jesus Intend to tell us?
4. "Why doesn't God answer more prayers?"
5. To Pray Again
6. Does Sin impede prayer?
7. Faith in God
8. How does God call people?
9. Understanding God's Will
10 Being in God's will
11 Journey of the Bible
12 Reading the Scripture Fruitfully
understanding prayer doesn't take more books filled with lies. A sentence or 2 will do: It doesn't work. It's equivalent to wishing on a 4-leaf clover.
Creationist LOST at the Dover Trial FOREVER !!!
Can not teach CREATION at all in public schools as FACT.
Take it up with the courts BLA BLA BLA !
New STEM science standards for 2013 make ears for transplant from stem cells
Can't you read EVOLUTION IN A TEST TUBE Jan. 30 2013
Here is your answer the same we gave this one given 2000 years ago to all of you who don't want to believe
1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, "I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE."
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom;
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
1Co 1:27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
1Co 1:28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
1Co 1:29 so that no man may boast before God.
1Co 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
1Co 1:31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."
I'm sorry, "Bob", but "God" and "Christ" are elements of mythology, therefore your repeated assertions remain unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
Religion is a manmade club like any other, with rules by which to segregate and perks to make the club feel special from other clubs. The club gets together periodically to reinforce the delusions of members. Many branches of this club have dues which most call a tithe. Each club redefines words so its intolerance seems righteous.
You've chosen, or were likely born into a family who joined, the club that aligns best with your own fantasy concerning how to minimize your fears in life. You and others in the club are afraid so you've made up a god that soothes you by making decisions for you, helping you feel less alone in the universe, and promising you life everlasting. The various club gods offer perks to induce membership such as seeing dead relatives, virginal sex partners, planets to rule or even one's own god status.
The Jesus you believe in never existed, was and is king of nothing. The bible is a collection of stolen, modified, pre-fabricated myth and forgeries about a non-existent deity. You don't have to be afraid. You do not need religion.
Deal with the lack of afterlife by celebrating life and family in the here and now. Be responsible for your own decisions. Be kind to the earth and others on it. Forge a path with determination, or "go with the flow" and let life determine the course if you're the lazy type. Either way, you don't need a god or a club for any of that.
@bob Love is a survial tool peace
.Creationist LOST at the Dover Trial FOREVER !!!
Can not teach CREATION at all in public schools as FACT.
Take it up with the courts BLA BLA BLA !
It is called
Really neat stuff
Other Bob, while you're busily dumping bible bile on us, let's have a look at what's really in your Christian book of nasty AKA the bible. Fine stuff like this, from both OT and NT:
17 Now kiII all the boys. And kiII every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Revelations 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Note that the bible is also very clear that you should sacrifice and burn an animal today because the smell makes sicko Christian sky fairy happy. No, you don't get to use the parts for food. You burn them, a complete waste of the poor animal.
Yes, the bible really says that, everyone. Yes, it's in Leviticus, look it up. Yes, Jesus purportedly said that the OT commands still apply. No exceptions. But even if you think the OT was god's mistaken first go around, you have to ask why a perfect, loving enti-ty would ever put such horrid instructions in there. If you think rationally at all, that is.
And then, if you disagree with my interpretation, ask yourself how it is that your "god" couldn't come up with a better way to communicate than a book that is so readily subject to so many interpretations and to being taken "out of context", and has so many mistakes in it. Pretty pathetic god that you've made for yourself.
So get out your sacrificial knife or your nasty sky creature will torture you eternally. Or just take a closer look at your foolish supersti-tions, understand that they are just silly, and toss them into the dustbin with all the rest of the gods that man has created.
Ask the questions. Break the chains. Join the movement. Be free of Christianity and other superstitions.
I wonder what explanation someone of a particular faith has for someone of a different faith hearing the voice(s) of their own god(s)?
@Maximus...I have been a believer for 26 years and I have never heard the audible voice of God (and I honestly don't expect to, or need to – and do not think God speaks that way since coming in the flesh; Jesus Christ).
But I suppose, since you are most likely a "naturalist", your real question would be: Is there a SUPERNATURAL reality simulataneously present amidst the NATURAL reality that we see? (ex. Like the invisible ULTRAVIOLET light present in the midstof NATURAL light – not to mention x-ray, gamma rays and all the other "light" & "sound" signatures that are unseen & unheard by the "natural" ear)...
Actually no other religion except satanic is claiming it, and why because every other religions founder is dead and cannot come back from the grave and doesn't make provisions for the Spirit. Simple!
About 5 years ago i had what seemed to be a demonic revelation come to me.. then i started writing my dreams down so i could fairly asess my dreams with out forgetting details, and then i started realizing that some dreams were provebs in pictures about struggles i was going through. had i not been writing them down and searching for symbolic comparisons in the bible, i would have never know what was going on. so then it started getting even stronger.
I have had word of knowledge come to me, random facts, details about ancient civilization, about shepherds , I have had dreams of scripture that i was going to read the next day that i had no clue or memory of, . i have though about things, and then had people come up to me the next day and told me they dreamed about what i was thinking about. and the sequence that all this happened, was so spiritually supernatural that all i can do is repent and ask God for more faith every day. Jehovah Shammah, the Lord is T'here. and so is the devil unfortunately but this is undoubtedly true. I can personally garuntee you.
woo-hoo, someone opened the cages at the Funny Farm... What I'd like to see is all 3 of you arguing over hearing voices and demonic possession and how your personal god is the only True one yet are all different. Let's get to it!
Hey Bob you can not base god on emotions.
Biologically, love is a powerful neurological condition like hunger or thirst, only more permanent.
a tool to survive
Have a family tree of over 80 humans still living you will find love to survive.
I believe it is God that gives us the ability to love and puts in our hearts the desire not only for love but also to know Him and need love. It is by His love we learn the true meaning of unselfish love and giving. I wish you could experience the love that I experience when the Lords presence is around me it is unlike anything we as humans know. God is not a emotion, but is a comfort in time of need, a calming force when in doubt,fear.
Bob, if god is not an emotion why do you keep referring to him as such? You're refuting your own post. My goodness it is startling at times how stupid you nutters are.
Its only stupid to those who are ignorant. But let me put it in simple terms so maybe even you can understand. When you have a close loving relationship it makes you feel good. But that person is not the feeling right? Can you understand at least that far. if you can understand this then maybe we can go further.
Correct, the person is not the feeling, but the feeling does not mean that the object of the love exists, either. You can certainly prove that you "love" your lord, but you cannot prove that he loves you. THAT is the point.
So what is proof to you of love?
Moby are you covering for End because I was talking to End or are you the same person? You are taking this to a different spot since I answered the question correctly and End doesn't have a clue. Its really a shame when another person has to come to your defense because you are clueless, Well at least your stepping in.
It depends on the object of the love and the one doing the loving. "Love" is a slippery concept that each person defines for himself, so I'm just giving you my own perspective.
I am not End. I do agree with his perspectives most of the time and admire his ability to cut through the bullsh!t so adroitly so often.
@Boob: "When you have a close loving relationship it makes you feel good. But that person is not the feeling right?"
I do understand how this works with people who exist. God is imaginary, an emotion you've attributed godlike AND human qualities.
Moby Well in our current society you are right that each person defines love for themselves but what is real love, it is God that established it and us and this is why it is interesting when we ask about truth. Because in truth there is the definition or structure of love. With out truth you can call love anything you want because it is set on your own human idea or base. That is not really love either or at best incomplete love. A person who abuses another person can call that love and it may be to him but it certainly is not love. So how does this person change his ways, because his eyes are opened suddenly to accept the real truth of what love is and he has the will and desire to follow it. This is what God does for us. We model our parents in relationships most of the time well God steps into a persons life and shows what real love and compassion is.
1Co 13:1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
1Co 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
1Co 13:5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
1Co 13:6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
1Co 13:7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
1Co 13:8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
When I first read this I was like wow I felt a twinge in me knowing that I in myself could not live up to this but as I walk with God I find more and more compassion where there once was none, that believe me is God and as much a witness to His being real as anything.
@Boob: "I wish you could experience the love that I experience when the Lords presence is around me it is unlike anything we as humans know."
Also, this is absolutely absurd. You wonder why you get no respect from me? Because it's like dealing with a retarded caveman. You have NOTHING inside you that's any different than any other human. You are not special. The emotions you experience when you piss your pants over the glory of god are EXACTLY the same as any other human likely can feel (remembering we're all on a range of empathy).
I'm sorry, "Bob", but "God" is an element of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
I have answered your post but in trying to defend your post you have completely gone off point and said that you don't believe in God. That is pretty childish, I really don't expect much more but its just annoying when confronted by the lack of understanding and when called on it returns to a default position in hopes of defending yourself. If you want to do the circle jerk why don't you go somewhere else and play.
at my church tonight , saturday night, 6 people gave their life to christ. we have a church of 3000. tonight there was maybe 300 people there. well i started crying, because the way the Lord saved me is so special to me, that just thinking about what those people just stepped into fills me with joy, and there were many times tonight at church that my whole body got the chills and goose bumps, and I never used feel that way about hearing people say the love of god, or i love god, i was like feeling like a used tire, because i thought it was fake. until the holy spirit got my attention in a personal way. and I can garuntee you that the love of God is what you all are missing, KNOWING the reality of Gods love, is what you are really after. not an discussion. your zeal for truth is God's way of showing you how much he loves you , even though you are against him naturally, His love abounds in mercy and grace.
whaat is up with the erronious duplicate comment going off?
hal we know how you feel another day another boring post of how Gods not real. I certainly don't care hal what you have to say and there is nothing to build a discussion on even if I were interested. Don't you feel kind of stupid saying the same old thing over and over again when everyone already knows you don't believe? Are you that lost? Whats wrong with you?
I'm sorry, "austin", but "God" is an element of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL".
My function, "Bob", is not to feel, but to analyze data and to illuminate unfounded assertions and falsehoods.
@ bob they do this 24/7 its their number one hobby. dont take it personally ill pray for your delivery and love.!!
hal now that's funny you couldn't analyze your way out of a paper bag.
@ hal hey , where can i go? what can i do? haha you are funny though, but the sad truth is that you dont believe me because i am telling you the truth about my experiences. why would i write my dreams down? because I wanted my own data. because the FIRST time it happened, i was extremely concerned. but i kept going over what happened, and i just couldnt lie to myself about the reality of what had happened, and this was the first of like 15 experiences man. the video of the lady in the red dress is right on bro.
You all need to realize your sin , admit you hate God, and start with that honesty and just tell HIm, "i dont know what to do" say "help God, I have a hard time believing any of this, but please forgive me" just be honest, but start a dialogue with the person you dont really believe in . please fellas, I am begging you to try.
hal, get Bob to explain to you why we should believe the early Christian apologists who claimed the reason the gospels looked so oddly similar to earlier pagan writings was because it was all a pre-emptive strike by Satan. LOL.
everyone knows the angels who fell know the creator redeemer christ-John 1:1-14 and they came down here with their deceptive religious mimicry
lol you dont believe that?
I'm sorry, "austin", but "sin" and "God" are elements of mythology, therefore your repeated assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your repeated unfounded assertions may represent truths is: "EPIC FAIL". Perhaps the following book can help you cope with the problem of repeating unfounded assertions:
hal what state do you live in?
hal whats your email i can show you my data
"everyone knows the angels who fell know the creator redeemer christ-John 1:1-14 and they came down here with their deceptive religious mimicry "
well of course they had to have a good cover-up story, austin
My subscribers only allow me to analyze data presented in the Belief Blog, austin. Perhaps you can share the data here so that we can help you ascertain the source for your unfounded assertions.
For a change, it does not appear that hal found any problems in austin's last post of: "email@example.com".
@Boob: Before you go can you tell me something? I am curious, is it cumbersome to live your entire life as a twit?
End funny you should ask when you could probably answer that question better than me.
This is in reply to your comment: "Matthew, stop pushing your disgusting god fraud at us with your blogspam. Shouting at us about "reason" is also rather ironic in the context of your Christian fairy tales that are contradicted by ready evidence and science."
First of all Bob I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you and all with you. I just want to tell you what I believe.
Secondly what do you think of God (I know you don't believe in him!) but I want to know what do you think he is?
And finally I am up for a discussion but don't think i'm trying to force Christianity on you Bob I only want to have a friendly debate so here's my email: firstname.lastname@example.org
I don't hear God audibly, but it's hard to think of God not existing. Most of my life God has been all I had left.
Might want to get out and find a friend since your god doesn't exist...
BREAKING NEWS: Speaking to God and hearing voices in your head that you think is God, is for sure not God. Scientists have preformed studies on people who actually believe that God is speaking to them. The results show that all individuals were in mental psychosis or delirium. And now on to Tom with sports. LOL
I am Messianic and have found peace in Yeshua. I responded to the invitation to receive God's forgiveness through faith in Jesus years ago.. When I did, immediatly I felt a weight lifted and great peace inside. That was a huge step for me. Since then, the peace I have with God is truly amazing. And it is walking in this peace that most often guides me to this day. No Jesus No peace Know Jesus Know Peace
Bless you Daniel, that is awesome.
I was depressed and frustrated with my life feeling small because of so many people judging me and scrutinizing my life. Then, I said fvck it, who cares what other people think of me. When I did, immediately I felt a weight lifted and great peace inside.
And not a single thing you said makes it true. You can have the deepest feeling in the world that it's true, you can feel it in your bones, or you can visit any psych ward to observe plenty of people the feel all sorts of things are very real, that are not there.....sorry.
May the One True God, Xenu forgive your poor choice.
"No Jesus No peace Know Jesus Know Peace"
I've seen this on bumper stickers. A fine philosophy, if your take yours from bumper stickers
I am glad you found peace
Not everyone needs Jesus to find it
Sorry, but the phrase "God talks to me out loud" doesn't exactly inspire me to trust the person who says it in earnest with anything more potentially dangerous than a hair brush...
I didn't see your question and have not been paying to much mind to the back and forth but I am more than happy to answer this. You are right there really isn't a way. How can you have any emotion about someone unless you know this person. You cant really make yourself love anyone much less God.
I was not a Christian all my life my wife, girl friend at the time, that I met before I was saved had a car and I happened to look in the glove compartment and out came all these praise and worship tapes. I was interested in her before this and thought to myself oh what a shame to bad shes a Jesus freak. little did I know that God was calling me and got a hold of me in a very dramatic way a short time after this. I wasn't a atheist but certainly not a fan of God and not saved but called. I never had much church experience and didn't know what or who God really was. I knew one thing though I hated church and religion and didn't want any part of the dogma and if that was all God was then that wasn't for me. I am not easily swayed but I can tell you from my own experience God is love, caring and not religious and will answer when called for with sincerity. That is my story that is how to love God.
Atheist hate God, for there to be hate there has to be some emotion and something that drives that kind of feeling. Fear is interesting because atheists feel condemned if we say they are going to hell. But if you don't believe there is a God then there is no heaven or hell so its really a non point unless there is something in their hearts that bears witness to this statement. No statement that like the old saying goes about sticks and stones will ever get a rise out of someone unless it strikes a cord with them. This actually is one of the best witnesses that there is a God that we have inside us all a witness of God and the consequences of a life separated from God will bring.
There's a lot I could point out about your post that is just plain wrong on many levels. Although I'm wondering if you would even address anything I say. So here's a bit of a test.
"How can you have any emotion about someone unless you know this person."
We feel things all the time for things that aren't real. When we read a fictional novel, we may feel contempt for a particularly assholish character is common.
"You cant really make yourself love anyone much less God."
Are you implying sam is incapable of love, or that love is not something people can force, like any other emotion?
I would like to think no one can force love we can transfer our experiences and those feelings to some items or people or animals but unless you know God how can you love someone you have never seen?
" unless you know God how can you love someone you have never seen?" total bull shlt Bob.
Just think about the idea of a 3 year old anywhere in the world smiling in wonderment at something new to them. You don't have to know that child to feel an emotional connection. We are all connected by our DNA and our collective social evolution that played a part in our survival and adaptation allowing our ancestors to survive in communal groups when their solo contemporaries only looking out for themselves were dying off. When it comes to empathy, caring, nurturing and loving, an invisible, intangible spirit being is totally unnecessary.
Sometimes in life we have a moment when we may be unhappy how things are going or in a bad place or just wanting to find out who God is and ask Him, for help or are you really there or I want to know you and He comes in sometimes quietly sometimes loudly or sometimes not right at that moment yet He does honor that prayer. In this moment we realize that there is a God and that He does indeed listen. As we get further into a walk with Him we begin to understand Him and what He does for us as we seek Him. The more we have the understanding of how faithful God is and what He does for us we have appreciation that through His spirit and time turns into love. How can you love someone you don't know? When I first came to God I just wanted to find out who He was I didn't know what to expect. But as time went on He became a friend and a Father and now I can say I trust Him and thank Him for all He has done for me. That is how you love God not through command but through a relationship and faithfulness. That is why it is important to hear God and understand who He is and when you do then you want to follow more and then the more you trust Him and so it goes. The more you understand God the more of His fingerprints you see, the more the light goes on and you say that's why that happened, now that makes sense.
Truth with a name like that you should know the answer, but you can see and touch a 3 year old so how can we love a God we have never seen? I would also question your definition of love. It more would be sympathy or caring but not love for the child.
Very good! God bless you.
True love is in reality being able to love yourself. If you are unable to love yourself you have no ability to truly love others. When I think of a 3 year old gazing in wonderment I see myself and can love them as much as I love myself, wanting all the opportunities to open before them as I would want for myself or my own 3 year old. I can see that wonderment and remember what it felt like and experience it again through the eyes of the child and love that feeling and along with it the child that brings it out of us, to recognize that human trait we all share and can relate to. You mistake that larger feeling of general love for humanity as the divine, I do not. I believe it is very human and not only social evolution at work but also chemical evolution as we learn more about how oxytocin and other chemicals in our bodies play a part in human morality and empathy
Claims of the Christian god being loving are in direct contradiction to bible content, from both old testament and new. Furthermore, the whole premise of Christianity that the death of the son of god would have been any kind of "sacrifice" and was required to deal with "sin" is utter nonsense. This is a supposed omnipotent being that we are discussing.
Christians, think this through a bit: how come your 'omnipotent' creature couldn't do all that supposed saving without the loony son sacrifice bit? And for that matter, how was it a sacrifice at all, when an omnipotent being could just pop up a replacement son any time it wants with less than a snap of its fingers? Pretty feeble god it is that you've made for yourself there. Give that some thought and maybe it will help you leave your delusions behind. You will remain a laughingstock otherwise, and the more you dwell in your silly delusion and ancient myths, instead of keeping up with advances in medicine and technology, the more America slips downward relative to the rest of the world in science and other fields.
the above post is not me
Ok, so you were unable to even address those two small points, which shows me going any further into your moronic post full of inaccuracies is completely useless.
Atheists don't hate god. That would be like hating leprechauns, it's god's cheerleaders that are the problem.
You cannot hate a being in which you do not believe.
Can you hated skippy, the purple squirrel who resides on the rings of saturn?
Your post is just so much blah, blah,blah
"Atheist hate God"
Again with the irrational line.
"Fear is interesting because atheists feel condemned if we say they are going to hell."
No, we just feel you are irrational freaks whose argument is so weak that they need to bully others into belief
"But if you don't believe there is a God then there is no heaven or hell"
So, heaven and hell IS for believers. This proves may initial statement.
By the way, Bob, I am very capable of love. I love my girlfriend, I love my family.
Sorry, Bob...that would be "misotheist"...can't hate what doesn't exist...can wish that it does.
Nice try, though.
Truth you are projecting love for something that is not due it. Your feelings and emotions for yourself or another are getting projected on to that child and you imminently love them. But this is not love it is projection. True love accepts the person for the person not for a thought of who that person is in ones own mind. The unique qualities that make each of us separate and individual and loving that person is love. When the child does something out of context of your expectations of love it is disappointing because that is not in your projection but it it real life and people. for your definition of love you could use a Barbie doll or teddy bear and project onto that. It will not be disappointing because it will not do the things you don't expect. I will offer a small jab yours is a immature love not usually able to stand the test of time. An illustration would be an individual who feels dislike for another person, but whose unconscious mind does not allow them to become aware of this negative emotion.
Instead of admitting to themselves that they feel dislike for someone, they project their dislike onto him, so that the individual’s conscious thought is not “I don’t like Bob,” but “Bob doesn’t seem to like me or I do not like that certain behavior that Bob
"I wasn't a atheist but certainly not a fan of God... I knew one thing though I hated church and religion... Atheists hate God..."
Bob: You seem to have a basic misconception of what an atheist is. You associate the feelings of guilt, anger, hate, etc you were having with atheistic feelings, but you admit that you weren't an atheist when you were feeling them. Atheists do not believe in your god, and so have no reason to feel any emotion toward him whatsoever.
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