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December 31st, 2012
01:52 PM ET

Googling the Dead Sea Scrolls

By Sara Sidner, CNN

Jerusalem (CNN)–Tania Treiger pulls on her tight blue gloves and picks up her tweezers, preparing for the extraordinary job she has been hired to do. She is one of only five conservators in the entire world allowed to handle one of the most significant discoveries of the 20th century. Treiger’s job is to help conserve and record the more than 2,000-year-old pieces of parchment that make up Dead Sea Scrolls.

Many of the fragments are smaller than a bottle cap, and Treiger is taking painstaking measures to preserve the tiny pieces of history by laying each one under a camera to be photographed. The work she and many others are doing now is making it possible for anyone around the world with access to the Internet to see and study the scrolls.

The scrolls were found by Muhammad Ahmed al-Hamed, a Bedouin shepherd, in Khirbet Qumran in caves near the Dead Sea 65 years ago in what was then the British Mandate Palestine, now the West Bank. When pieced together, the scrolls reveal some of the holiest and well-known texts of the world. In the delicate pieces of ancient parchment you can see the text of the Ten Commandments, the first chapter of Genesis, Psalms and many of the writings that make up the Bible as well as other non-biblical books. Nearly 900 manuscripts are now online because of a partnership between the Israel Antiquities Authority and Google.

Pnina Shor, who heads the Dead Sea Scrolls project, says she hatched the idea five years ago.

“These are manuscripts written 2,000 years ago, at the time when both Judaism and Christianity were formalizing as we know them today,” Shor said.

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It has taken five years to get 5,000 scroll fragments online, which includes an exciting development due to modern technology. A thousand of the fragments have been photographed using NASA technology to reveal text previously impossible to see.

“For me, this is a dream come true," Shor said. "I have been working on this five years, and it is now like a dream come true because now not only the scholarly world is going to care for this but the public as well."

The process of revealing even more detail in the scrolls and digitizing them includes photographing each fragment 28 times front and back, using 12 colors of the spectrum and NASA technology.

Once Treiger puts the scroll fragment on the table to be photographed, photographer Shai Halevi sets the computer, and it snaps away using filters that are blue, green, red and many colors undetectable to the eye.

Halevi explains how it works: “We took the pictures over there with all the colors, different light length, then we're getting all the exposures on the screen, and I'm combining them all into one multispectral image. And now secret writings are going to be revealed with the infrared image.”

The Dead Sea Scrolls website offers all kinds of information, even details about each fragment. The search engine will tell you what cave the fragment was found in (the scroll fragments were found in several caves that came to be known as the Qumran caves); what language is written on the fragment; and what it says, translated into English or Hebrew and, very soon, Arabic. You can zoom in to see the finest detail.

At a press conference in Jerusalem, the head of Google’s Research and Development in Israel, Yossi Matias, explained the company’s role in making these ancient scrolls available to the masses.

“Google's mission is to organize the world's information to make it universally accessible and useful. And it's hard to think about more important content than the scrolls that have such significance to so many people worldwide.”

CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

In the 1950s, some of the scrolls were photographed, and last year, the Israel Museum teamed up with Google and put five of the 900 manuscripts on the Internet. But, for this project, all the photos taken in the 1950s are now online. The team is continuing to photograph and preparing to put another thousand of the enhanced photos online this month.

Controversy has followed these scrolls from the day they were discovered. Arguments abound over who actually wrote them and who owns them. Now that they are available to the entire world for crowdsourcing, who knows what new controversies or perhaps answers can be uncovered in the ancient writings?

CNN's Michael Schwartz contributed to this report.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Bible

soundoff (458 Responses)
  1. Michael R. Jones

    Reblogged this on Michael R. Jones and commented:
    The Dead Sea Scrolls are now Digitized! I cannot tell, however, if the text is searchable.

    January 2, 2013 at 12:34 pm |
  2. nO POST

    Believing in Jesus Christ and what is written in Scripture takes faith only made possible through the Holy Spirit. For it's the Holy Spirit that convinces the unbelieving and hardened human heart that what is written is fact and not fiction. Faith fights human logic and vice versa and they will never come to an agreement. I decided on faith and it has overtaken human logic – what I've witnessed through God's grace is lightyears ahead of human logic.

    January 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • The Truth

      The body and the spirit are at war.
      + Our bodies want our lusts satisfied.
      + Our spirit want to live eternally and to please the Great Spirit of the Universe.
      When we give into the body, we spend all day on this blog proving ourselves right and insulting others.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • Oy

      So you prefer to believe things that have absolutely no proof over things that do. That's called mental illness, friend.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:33 pm |
    • small 'c' christian

      Big +1 for that thought, Truth... I may borrow it from you from time to time...

      January 2, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      If you think faith beats logic then jump out the window and see if your 'faith' will allow you to fly or whether 'human logic' will win out and you will hit the ground.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • The Truth

      {When the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. sat at his kitchen table, in the winter of 1956, terrified by the fear of what might happen to him and his family during the Montgomery bus boycott, he said he heard the voice of Jesus promising, “I will be with you.” He went forward.}

      His logic (body) said don't do this.

      His faith (spirit) gave him strength to move forward.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:43 pm |
    • The Truth

      +) small 'c' christian

      Thanks, I like your name.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:45 pm |
    • Drew

      ....the most convincing evidence that the Bible is the Word of God is transformed lives....when you see the Holy Spirit change a lying, greedy, filthy degenerate into a person who loves Christ, loves others and is truly a changed soul there is no denying Him after that....

      January 2, 2013 at 12:46 pm |
    • The Truth

      +) Drew

      That defies my limited and earthly logic. I love it!

      January 2, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      '....when you see the Holy Spirit change a lying, greedy, filthy degenerate into a person who loves Christ, loves others and is truly a changed soul there is no denying Him after that....'

      poor argument. different people use different 'crutches' to turn their life around, and i can just as easily point to how fred phelps used to be a civil rights lawyer before he went all religious, and im not sure he matches the later half of your description.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:24 pm |
    • Freedom FROM Religion

      I strongly recommend seeking medical attention if you have renounced all logic b/c you have "witnessed" hallucinations. This is often a sign of a very delusional person who is also very easily manipulated.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • Drew

      ....cedar....if one's life is not transformed, they haven't turned to God sincerely, irrespective of their "religion"....I see you reject Christ....so I don't expect anything from you except unbelief! Don't waste your time trying to convince me there is no God. I don't believe God is real – I KNOW He is real and alive today! Have a nice day....

      January 2, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'if one's life is not transformed, they haven't turned to God sincerely'

      and like i said other people have used other 'crutches' to turn their life around. Some use family, some use close call with death, other use examples of other successes. It does not require a god to turn a life around.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:43 pm |
    • Drew

      ....yeah, cedar....I see you reject Christ....so I don't expect anything from you except unbelief! Don't waste your time trying to convince me there is no God.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:57 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      i cant reject something that doesnt exist.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:03 pm |
    • Drew

      ....but, you see, cedar....if the atheist and I die together and there is no God we will end up exactly the same. But if we die and you're wrong (and you are!) – then what?

      January 2, 2013 at 2:10 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew....but, you see, cedar....if the atheist and I die together and there is no God we will end up exactly the same. But if we die and you're wrong (and you are!) – then what?'

      There is a 3rd option that people such as yourself always skip over when trying to make such an argument.....
      There is a god, but he isnt the one you are worshipping so you are just as s crewed as the rest of us......then what?

      January 2, 2013 at 2:13 pm |
    • hawaiiguest

      @Drew

      Pascal's Wager (what you just used) fails because it sets up a False Dichotomy of "my particular religion or nothing", when there are in fact other religions and concepts of an afterlife you would need to wager against. It also assumes that your god is stupid enough to be tricked by a thought process of "ill believe just in case", then the final straw is that I could say I have a concept of a god that want's everyone to believe based on solid, independent evidence and not faith, and by having faith in a different concept, you will go to that hell.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:15 pm |
    • Drew

      ....you obviously don't want the True and Living God to make Himself real to your heart or you would ask Him to do so and you would stop wasting time with me!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:18 pm |
    • Drew

      ....no, Hawaii....God Himself says Christ is the only way and that He is the True and Living God....

      January 2, 2013 at 2:20 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew

      ....no, Hawaii....God Himself says Christ is the only way and that He is the True and Living God....'

      every religion says theirs is the only way, its hardly a convincing argument.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm |
    • Drew

      ....cedar....Great! Because I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Your relationship with your God is between you and Him – not me!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:32 pm |
    • Pete

      Drew, keep your relationship with god to yourself and we won't have a problem then.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • Drew

      if it's a problem, Pete – TOO BAD – LOL!!!!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:47 pm |
    • numbnut

      You know, Drew, if you really need God, or Christ to help you with life, then you must really have problems. I think people hide behind the bible, or God issue because they are hiding something. Maybe they are weak, or maybe they feel guilty about something they have done. If believing makes you feel like a good person, then more power to you and yours. Personally, I don't believe because first off I was raised a Catholic, so I've seen and heard plenty from Sunday masses. Not a believer. Second, I don't need a bible to tell me how to be a good person, moral person. It comes naturally, and it should be common sense. I am free thinking and that is a wonderful feeling. Have a good day, and may 2013 be kind to all of mankind.

      January 2, 2013 at 5:50 pm |
    • blessed_2b_a_blessing

      I've made mistakes in my life. I have weakness (disability). I am weak. I admit it. I am far from perfect.

      With God, I now know this ok. The Bible is helpful for me.

      January 2, 2013 at 5:57 pm |
  3. Iesha Kadijah (nick name)

    Discovery of Dead Sea Scrolls again proves the authority of the Bible. The message of the Bible has not been changed as claimed by Mulsims.
    This discovery HISTORICALLY proves that Mohammad's claims are false.
    God of the Bible protected HIS Message and we still have it.
    OT foretold about the MESSIAH who would die for the sins (Isaiah 53, Daniel 9:24-26) and NT proclaims the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins.
    Anyone who denies this message is in error. Mohammad and Quran denied this message. This is why Mohammad could not know whether he would go to heaven and commited many serious sins.
    Infact, he admitted that he had revelations from Satan which NONE of the Biblical prophets had.
    It is possible to think that it is the messages that came from Satan that contradicted with the Biblical teachings of the death of Jesus and His Sonship.
    1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
    1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

    The truth is:
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    January 2, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • sybaris

      "The truth is: John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

      The myth is that your "omnipotent" god allegedly impregnated the wife/fiance' (adultery?) of another man to reproduce itself in order to eventually sacrifice itself to itself to atone for its own imperfect creation (so much for omniscience).

      Regardless, your Jesus man sacrificed nothing. To a god the shell of flesh is insignificant.

      Not the brightest of plans.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:45 am |
    • lunchbreaker

      Being that the dead sea scrolls were not put in the Bible per God's will, it would seem thier discovery should be moot to believers.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • YBP

      1. You sound like a raving nut.

      2. You cannot use passages from the Bible to prove anything about the Bible. That's called a circular argument. So you're also not too good at this.

      Unfortunately for you and the rest of the Christians (with your borrowed faith and leftover ideas from the ancient world), the Dead Sea Scrolls suggest strongly that Jesus was obviously an Essene, and therefore also a nut. The only trouble is, he wasn't an historical person, at least not one living in the early first century CE.

      So, with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the chances of Christianity being a true religion, or even relevant, has decreased (even more than ever before, and it didn't have a very good track record to begin with – Constantine, Crusades, Inquisitions, Conquistadors, Witch Hunts, Slavery, 1940s Germany, 2000s Vatican).

      January 2, 2013 at 12:00 pm |
    • via2

      @Kadijah, AMEN and AMEN!!!!!

      January 2, 2013 at 12:20 pm |
    • nO POST

      @Iesha. You've got that right!
      Islam is against Christ therefore it is of the enemy.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:30 pm |
    • the AnViL

      the only thing the dead sea scrolls prove – is that the dead sea scrolls exist.

      blam!

      January 2, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • richunix

      interesting

      January 2, 2013 at 12:39 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      funny, why stick to having a go at the muslims? the jews also have the same viewpoint on christ.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
    • Kentucky lady

      lesha Kadijah – Thank you for your awesome witness! You described my heart and beliefs as well! May God bless you richly as you publicly profess His Son and our Savior....Jesus Christ!!

      January 2, 2013 at 12:50 pm |
    • Drew

      ....Mohammed is dead! Christ is alive....I don't expect anything from you unbelievers except unbelief....those who reject Christ are spiritually dead corpses with no wisdom and no light....have a great day!

      January 2, 2013 at 1:01 pm |
    • Sharron Needles

      Black folk don't go to Heaven, lesha.....

      Happy Kwanza!

      January 2, 2013 at 1:28 pm |
    • NUMBNUT

      That. was really an unnecessary comment.

      January 2, 2013 at 7:18 pm |
    • NUMBNUT

      My comment is for Sharon.

      January 2, 2013 at 7:19 pm |
    • Saddened

      No kidding. Try: "report abuse"

      Doubt it helps.

      January 2, 2013 at 7:21 pm |
    • John A

      People who try to box God into physical properties only will never get it.

      January 2, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
  4. southernwonder

    it is amazing that the people should choose to ignore modern day hubble telescope's finidngs – among which are non-existence of boogeyman labled heavenly father in sky – over thingies related to a prophet who did not know what hubble knows.

    January 2, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • $$$$$$$$$$$

      How Good Is The World's Most Expensive Fighter Jet? god DOES NOT KNOW !!!

      January 2, 2013 at 12:32 pm |
    • keith

      It amazes me how people who don’t believe or chose not to even looking into Christianity make it their goal to put it down, because they want to be different or better or think they are smarter, they also seem to feel it’s necessary to call them names or try to humiliate them. These people seem to have put their faith in themselves or man and are disappointed in what happens. All I can say is when we’re dead and buried then the truth will be known

      January 2, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • Drew

      ....if the Hubble ever gets close enough to God's Heaven the Hubble will see a sign that says, "keep of the grass" – today, all the Hubble sees is that it can't see very far at all! The "assured findings of science" change about every decade, 'ya know....

      January 2, 2013 at 1:04 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'The "assured findings of science" change about every decade, 'ya know....'

      no, the 'assured findings of science' usually EXPANDS every decade, it very rarely 'changes' and it would be a very rare scientist indeed who claimed findings were 'assured' in the first place.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • Drew

      ....cedar....now you're just saying anything....the science books I learned from in the 70's are as outdated and irrelavent as atheism.....

      January 2, 2013 at 1:59 pm |
    • Really??

      Drew
      No the Hubble can't see far at all...just to the very edge of the universe. We don't know if there is anything beyond that.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:02 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew....cedar....now you're just saying anything....the science books I learned from in the 70's are as outdated and irrelavent as atheism.....'

      such as?

      January 2, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Drew

      yes, really....when it gets to the edge it will find another, larger, universe – that it's not capable of viewing....! LOL!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:05 pm |
    • Drew

      ....such as....the Big Bang Theory. Great TV show but not such great science. If you put an empty shoe box in your closet for 500 billion years you're going to have an empty shoe box!

      When you can explain something from nothing – as the Bible does – I am fully prepared to consider other theories.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:27 pm |
    • Which God?

      Drew said: "yes, really....when it gets to the edge it will find another, larger, universe – that it's not capable of viewing....! LOL."
      And you Know this how, Drew? Did your goD tell you? Did you find a newer, updated science book? Schitthead.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:28 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      what is wrong with the 'big bang theory' that you believe science had an 'assured finding' otherwise (which was your original claim) ? did science make a 100% definitive claim otherwise as to the beginning of the universe?
      (by the way, you know the BBT was first suggested by a catholic priest right?)

      'When you can explain something from nothing – as the Bible does'
      no it does, it doesnt 'explain' anything, it merely claims it was magic. Heck anyone can do that, thats an easy out.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:33 pm |
    • Drew

      ....actually, WG – scientists are today saying the universe is MUCH bigger than they had thought. That's how I know.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:34 pm |
    • Drew

      ....you may find this shocking, cedar, but I disagree....the concepts in the Bible would NEVER have been though of by man outside of divine revelation.....

      January 2, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • I wonder

      Drew,
      " If you put an empty shoe box in your closet for 500 billion years you're going to have an empty shoe box!"

      Have you done this?

      Why don't you toddle off to your closet with your notebook and camera and test this for 500 billion years (first, you'll have to verify that your shoebox is really "empty", however). Get back to us then. Ok? Bye now...

      January 2, 2013 at 2:38 pm |
    • Drew

      ....I wonder....ur purty smart, ain't ';'ya?

      January 2, 2013 at 2:41 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      '.the concepts in the Bible would NEVER have been though of by man outside of divine revelation'

      how on earth do you think you can make that claim? what a bizarre statement.
      which concepts in particular? creating things out of thin air? heck, if you want bizarre concepts try looking at the Aboriginal Dreamtime mythos. That will show you what man is able to think up.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:43 pm |
    • I wonder

      Drew,
      "the concepts in the Bible would NEVER have been though of by man outside of divine revelation....."

      Which concepts are those? Stuff in that book is a rehash of lots of earlier myths and concepts of beneficial rules for human behavior.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:46 pm |
    • Drew

      If you think in a million years someone would have dreamed up the concept of dying for the sins of the world you are simply insincere and disingenuine, cedar. There is still today no other name under Heaven by which we must be saved.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Drew

      ....and mankind is only capable of thinking and writing on his own, very low, plane! Nothing new at all with your abstract referrals....

      January 2, 2013 at 2:54 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'If you think in a million years someone would have dreamed up the concept of dying for the sins of the world you are simply insincere and disingenuine, cedar'

      sorry but that isnt that much of a stretch of a concept.
      why do you think it would have been hard to think up that concept? what is so special about it to make a divine only concept?

      January 2, 2013 at 3:09 pm |
    • Drew

      ok....cedar.....you sound as if you are fully persuaded there is no God. Not me – I believe....take care!

      January 2, 2013 at 3:15 pm |
    • Really??

      Drew
      The concepts in the bible are concepts that men from everywhere have, being a social animal. Most religions have much of the same information in them, even those "religions" that don't have gods.
      Men HAVE thoought of this stuff, men continue to think of this stuff, with no evidence whatsoever in your theoretic god.

      By the way, The Big Bang is no longer a theory. It is proven fact.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:37 pm |
  5. bonjourno

    this is a step forward in historical time came when needed most, with everything thats going on, and to be digital; makes it more accessable for many that are familar w the internet and very beneficial to college students and professors

    January 2, 2013 at 11:22 am |
  6. empresstrudy

    These insane and retarded comments coming from a bunch of people who are typically $200,000 in debt for their treasured parchment signifying their adherence to the holy scriptures of post modernist lesbian anarchist Marxist dialectic....well isn't that just the most precious thing?

    January 2, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • small 'c' christian

      ???

      January 2, 2013 at 12:44 pm |
    • Drew

      ....wow....drinking and posting should be a crime, too....

      January 2, 2013 at 1:08 pm |
  7. Phazon

    Athiests are funny they claim they don't like people pushing them to conversion they don't like people talking about God and want people to respect their decisions. Yet they have no problem ridiculing everything about God calling him names and spreading their views and trying to push theirs on everyone else. You can't believe there is a creator but yet you have no problem believing that some how out of a mathimatical equation so great that you think that somehow it all happened by accident that everything just supposedly happened on the right planet in the right part of the universe at the right time at the right way. A house doesn't build itself.

    January 2, 2013 at 10:50 am |
    • disengaging from you lunatics

      Many that don't believe in the creator have no problem believing in Aliens though. Go figure.

      January 2, 2013 at 10:55 am |
    • The Truth

      The atheists flock to stories about God. They are very interested in talking about God. I think God is working on their hearts. He works in mysterious ways. I was as resentful and hate-filled as a lot of the atheists that post on here. I got better.

      It gets better, guys.

      January 2, 2013 at 10:59 am |
    • Seyedibar

      We don't actually require science to disprove the existence of gods. History and Archaeology have already disproven them all. Now there may actually be a god out there somewhere, but it clearly is not the god of any religion on we've ever heard of, and certainly not the biblical Lord, who has already been proven to be mundane in his existence.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:07 am |
    • Topher

      Seyedibar

      "History and Archaeology have already disproven them all."

      Not even kind of true. History and archaeology have only confirmed the Bible. In fact, not one single thing has been disproven.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • lawrencewinkler

      Atheists and believers are almost identical. Historians have identified about 3700 prior big gods. Current believers don't believe in 3700 gods, atheists simply don't believe in 3701 gods.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • The Truth

      I used to think that way, too.

      As did John Newton, but he changed and wrote this:

      "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
      That saved a wretch like me.
      I once was lost but now am found,
      Was blind, but now I see."

      God's ways aren't our ways. Once I realized this and found an all-loving God I was saved. There is more to this world than meets the eye. :)

      January 2, 2013 at 11:16 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      "A house doesn't build itself"

      But a god does? LOL.

      Why do you get so angry when people question your beliefs? Its almost like know your wrong.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:17 am |
    • The Truth

      > Why do you get so angry when people question your beliefs? Its almost like know your wrong.

      I'm not mad. At all. :)

      I just explain my point of view.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:19 am |
    • LinCA

      @Phazon

      You said, "Athiests are funny they claim they don't like people pushing them to conversion they don't like people talking about God and want people to respect their decisions."
      Atheists*

      I respect your right to believe as you see fit. After all, stupidity isn't illegal. For your beliefs to merit any respect they have to be rational.

      You said, "Yet they have no problem ridiculing everything about God calling him names and spreading their views and trying to push theirs on everyone else."
      Again, believe what you want, but here's a question for you: What would you do if you encounter an otherwise rational adult who still believes in the Tooth Fairy?

      You said, "You can't believe there is a creator but yet you have no problem believing that some how out of a mathimatical equation so great that you think that somehow it all happened by accident that everything just supposedly happened on the right planet in the right part of the universe at the right time at the right way."
      Yours is an argument from ignorance. You claim that, because you can't comprehend it to have come about any other way, your god must have done it.

      Not accepting a hypothesis for which there isn't a shred of evidence is the default stance. Until there is evidence to support any hypothesis there is no reason to think it is valid. Until there is evidence in support of your "goddidit" story, it's unreasonable to accept it as valid.

      You said, "A house doesn't build itself."
      Who built the builder?

      January 2, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Topher is lying or misinformed...again.

      Archaeology proves that there were only 3 million people in Egypt in the Late Bronze Age. The Bible’s own proposition is that some 600,000 fighting men, aged 20 and upwards, migrated out of Egypt during a period which may be correlated with the Late Bronze Age. When we add women, children and elderly, 600,000 fighting men implies some 2.5 to 3 million people who migrated from Egypt in the Late Bronze Age. However, the archaeological evidence shows no such thing at all. There is no such disruption to the archaeological record. In fact, Egypt generally grew in strength throughout this period.

      So, the Bible’s proposition that 600,000 fighting men migrated out of Egypt in the Exodus is proved false by archaeology. The idea that God has called a certain people to him is also affected by this evidence. Without an Exodus, there’s no theological establishment of Israel. And the only biblical account of the Exodus is disproved. So, archaeology disproves this part of the Bible.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:22 am |
    • Seyedibar

      @Topher
      You'd be wrong to believe that. The last 50 years of study has connected all the kings to their proper dynasties and even excavated roughly half their tombs. We've even discovered the tomb of the Egyptian vassal the Hebrews called Yahweh. His name Jehovah is even carved into the door of his crypt, and Egypt has records of his station and the history of his family's rule. We can even use the dead sea scrolls to see that the earliest jewish writings were a sequel to the Sumerian epics. We've matched each instance of "lord" to its proper ruler, designating exactly which emperor and dynasty. We've proven that roughly half the bible is taken from Egyptian folktales that the fleeing africans brought to the mediterranean and mixed with caananite history. Even a precursory reading of the Masorotic and Tanak texts are enough to realize that the King James bible bears little resemblance to its original texts. It could take decades of course for Christians to catch up to modern scholarship, but the legends of their religion have been widely disproven at present time.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      The Truth, you didnt really think I was talking to you, did you? Multiple accounts? Yeah, they can lead to stupid posts like that one.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:25 am |
    • Archaeology

      Archaeology is not an exact science. There are a lot of variables that are involved. It is not 100% and I have to recognize the human error aspect.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:27 am |
    • The Truth

      +) ReligionIsBS
      I don't care if you weren't talking to me – I just made a comment. :)

      January 2, 2013 at 11:28 am |
    • JMG

      So to the guy that asks why the poster got so angry when someone questioned their beliefs, I have 2 questions for you: 1. How did you gather the person was angry at all? Is that just one of those built in responses Atheists have to feed their ego? What if he wasn't actually angry....what if he was stating his view... And 2. Why do Atheists HAVE to question other people's beliefs? Is that a part of the structure of your belief? To go around vulture style trying to discredit other people's? How does that even make sense. TO piggy pack off of someone else's views to form anti-views....lol. Just a strange group of people...reminds me of people who are really racist who flock to race related stories or who are pro-gay who take everything about gay rights and creates overyhype about anything related to being gay...

      January 2, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      " I don't care if you weren't talking to me – I just made a comment"...but forgot to change your username back to Phazon! CAUGHT! LOL

      January 2, 2013 at 11:29 am |
    • Seyedibar

      @ReligionisBS
      There are records of only one group being run out of Egypt in the era of Setnakte, and that's the Asiatics. But that doesn't immediately destroy the Exodus legend, since there are several cultural ties between the early jews and asian tales. We know they at least had naval access to Asiatic boats and navigators. The Polynesians ruled the seas at that time and the Phoenicians/Egyptians saw them as a threat. There were several movements to push all Asians out of Egypt, and the likely path they'd have taken would lead them directly into Canaan.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:30 am |
    • Topher

      Seyedibar

      "Even a precursory reading of the Masorotic and Tanak texts are enough to realize that the King James bible bears little resemblance to its original texts"

      Common atheistic mistruth. We have a LOT of early copies of the texts and so know the Bible we have today is the same the church fathers had. Check out this chart.

      Here's a look at the time gap between the original and first surviving copies of some very important books that give us information on important historical figures ...
      Bible: 25 years
      Homer: 500
      Demosthenes: 1400
      Herodotus: 1400
      Plato: 1200
      Tacitus: 1000
      Caesar: 1000
      Pliny: 750

      Now, here's a look at how many of those manuscript copies we have ....
      New Testament: 5686
      Homer: 643
      Demosthenes: 200
      Herodotus: 8
      Plato:7
      Tacitus: 20
      Caesar:10
      Pliny: 7
      Yet we put more faith we know what happened in the Gallic Wars than what happened in the NT.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:31 am |
    • The Truth

      +) RBS

      I'm not posting as Phazon. I'm sure with archaeology you can prove me wrong, though.

      "" I don't care if you weren't talking to me – I just made a comment"...but forgot to change your username back to Phazon! CAUGHT! LOL"

      > "The Truth, you didnt really think I was talking to you, did you? Multiple accounts? Yeah, they can lead to stupid posts like that one."

      and then I responded and you blamed me for being Phazon? What?

      January 2, 2013 at 11:32 am |
    • JMG

      For the record, I agree with Phazon. And it's senseless to argue why....in contrast to those who live to argue against me and people who share my view. But as much as people say their is NOT a God, I just say to them, give me a theory that proves why there isn't one and we can go from there. Science itself is as flawed as religion, since it claims we came from random comets that created themselves...which is rather ironic when talking about there being a God! Some people experience things that help them understand their views, not just picking up a book one day and creating logic. God is real, if you don't believe it, live a life not believing. To each his own, right?

      January 2, 2013 at 11:33 am |
    • The Truth

      +) JMG

      Nicely put. Thanks.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:35 am |
    • Bill Richardson

      Atheists amaze me, they really do. Do you realize that it takes much more faith to believe that everything just created itself than to look at all of the design around us that screams for a designer?

      January 2, 2013 at 11:37 am |
    • Seyedibar

      @Topher
      You aren't proving your point by bringing up the Greek historians, who all recorded that the gods were only fables steeped in ancestor worship, and made it clear that their contemporary society did not hold that any gods were real. Herodotus even begins many of his papers with this disclaimer.
      The bible is very accurate on some historical accounts, and very wrong on others. That's because it isn't meant to be read as one true story. The old and new testaments are nothing more than anthologies of fiction, poetry, history, and philosophy for early readers to cut their wisdom teeth on. It was originally a cultural teaching tool, not a unified source for dogma or truth.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:41 am |
    • Topher

      Seyedibar

      "That's because it isn't meant to be read as one true story."

      Dude, where in the world are you getting this stuff? What's your source? The Bible was absolutely meant to be read as a true story. It was written by eyewitnesses who went to their deaths over it. If it wasn't true, why would they allow that?

      "The old and new testaments are nothing more than anthologies of fiction, poetry, history, and philosophy for early readers to cut their wisdom teeth on. It was originally a cultural teaching tool, not a unified source for dogma or truth."

      Again, why would these men choose to be tortured to death for something they knew wasn't true? But that's not all. The Bible makes them all look like ignorant fools. If you were writing a lie that you claimed was true, would you make yourself look so bad? Not likely. Do you honestly think John said, "Hey, Peter, come here. I'm writing my book and I'm going to have God call you the devil. You OK with that?"

      January 2, 2013 at 11:48 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      "Atheists amaze me, they really do. Do you realize that it takes much more faith to believe that everything just created itself than to look at all of the design around us that screams for a designer?"

      Ahhh, the old "it takes more faith to be an atheist" fallacy. Do religious people intentionally lie when theyh say this, or are they really this confused? The definition of atheism is "a lack of beleif in a god or gods." Thats all it is. Atheism is a lack of faith, not a heavy dosage of faith.

      "look at all of the design around us that screams for a designer." If you think things look designed, you might be fascinated by natural selection. But im guessing you are too cowardly to do any actuall research on what it is.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:54 am |
    • The Truth

      The Bible is a collection of different books.

      There were letters to different people, poetry, songs, genealogies, history, parables and stories. There is even erotic love poetry!

      And they've been collected into one book over time.

      I think the Bible is a gift from God. It points to God. It is not God.

      The Bible records people's experience with God. That experience is still being written about today.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:55 am |
    • ReligionIsBS

      Topher.

      LOL at your entire last post. You think christianity is real because people died over it? Does that make Islam real because people die over it? Does that make Hinduism real because people have died over it? Does that make zues real because people died over him? Awesome post!

      January 2, 2013 at 11:57 am |
    • Topher

      ReligionIsBS

      "You think christianity is real because people died over it?"

      No. That's not what I'm saying. My response was to someone claiming that the Bible was never meant to be held as truth or as doctrine. That's ridiculous. The people who wrote it meant it to be believed.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:01 pm |
    • lulu

      I agree with you completely. I think you said that very well. There are also people in this conversation mocking Jesus and how he was born.. he was born by the holy spirit. It's only adultery if it's between a man and a woman.. also, he became a man.. someone that was perfect became imperfect so he could save us. He died on the cross knowing that we were sinners, knowing that we didn't deserve it. He endured lashings, whippings, nails thru his precious hands and knowing everything we would do, he said "you are worth it." He was the lamb that was sacraficed on our behalf so that we might be saved. He rose again after 3 days to show that he was Lord and everything he said and preached was real. He will be coming again. It's better to live your whole life believing in God than to not live for God and die and find out he is real and everything you've done in life be judged. It doesn't have to be that way. Jesus paid the perfect price. Accept him today.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • hal 9001

      Topher: "The Bible was absolutely meant to be read as a true story. It was written by eyewitnesses who went to their deaths over it."

      I'm sorry, "Topher", but your explanation exhibits circular validation. Use of the Bible as validation for the Christian "God" renders such characters of mythology as merely unfounded beliefs, since there is no empirical evidence of the supernatural qualities that such characters are claimed to possess. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 2, 2013 at 12:04 pm |
    • The Truth

      Some people think they can make their point clearer if they are rude and use derogatory terms against others.

      It just increases my faith in the good people I know in my life.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:06 pm |
    • The Truth

      > hal 9001

      No class.

      Dementia is a loss of brain function that occurs with certain diseases. It affects memory, thinking, language, judgment, and behavior.

      It affects believers and non-believers in the same way.

      If you had a loved one that suffered from it, you wouldn't make jokes about it.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm |
    • CueBallSTL

      Phazon – Clearly, you have no concept of infinity.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:21 pm |
    • hal 9001

      My reply is not a joke, "The Truth". I did not assert that "Topher" has dementia, only that, in case "Topher" is suffering from dementia, the book I recommended might help him discover why he is frequently repeating unfounded statements; statements for which logical correction has been repeatedly offered.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:24 pm |
    • The Truth

      hal 9001

      I apologize, I just thought you didn't agree with his viewpoint and were trying to insult him.

      I believe in God. I have friends that believe in gods or have a different concept of God than me. I have friends that don't believe in God. I don't think they or accuse them of having dementia. That would be rude of me.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:28 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'you think that somehow it all happened by accident that everything just supposedly happened on the right planet in the right part of the universe at the right time at the right way'

      er, sorry but the whole idea of 'right' anything is a nonsense argument. It happened here, most likely has happened elsewhere in the universe as well. There is nothing 'right' about this planet in the sense you mean.

      'Dude, where in the world are you getting this stuff? What's your source? The Bible was absolutely meant to be read as a true story. It was written by eyewitnesses who went to their deaths over it. If it wasn't true, why would they allow that?'

      And David Koresh's followers died for him, does that mean he really was the 2nd coming?

      January 2, 2013 at 12:48 pm |
    • Drew

      ....unbelievers don't want to acknowledge God because they have a sinful lifestyle the Bible condems. Therefore, they must try everything to convince themselves God doesn't exist. That's why they don't even want to think about God, although many call themselves "open-minded."

      The biggest problem unblelievers have with God is that they can't, and never will, be able to explain how we became something from nothing!

      Good luck, atheists. You are either insincere or insane – which is it?

      January 2, 2013 at 1:15 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew

      ....unbelievers don't want to acknowledge God because they have a sinful lifestyle the Bible condems. Therefore, they must try everything to convince themselves God doesn't exist. That's why they don't even want to think about God, although many call themselves "open-minded."

      The biggest problem unblelievers have with God is that they can't, and never will, be able to explain how we became something from nothing!

      Good luck, atheists. You are either insincere or insane – which is it?'

      oooooh, a swing and a miss.
      so tell me drew, what is sinful about my lifestyle? you seem to know me well enough to make the claim about atheists lifestyles so please do give examples.
      And really, i dont need to convince myself that a magical all-powerful being that apparently set up some bizarre judgement/punishment scheme for some strange reason, doesnt exist. I really dont. What on earth would be the point of such a system? It takes no more effort for me to dismiss that as it does to dismiss fairies or pixies.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:30 pm |
    • David

      "mathimatical" ... all we need to know about you, thanks for playing

      January 2, 2013 at 1:40 pm |
    • Grandma

      Drew
      "....unbelievers don't want to acknowledge God because they have a sinful lifestyle the Bible condems."

      I am a 68 year-old widow and a mother of 4 outstanding adults and 3 grandchildren. I am a solid, loving, upstanding and charitable citizen. I am an atheist (or atheist/agnostic, if you will) because there is no verified evidence for supernatural beings. How dare you say that I have a "sinful lifestyle", you ignorant, delusional, self-righteous pea brain.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:42 pm |
    • ttwp

      "...FOR ALL HAVE SINNED and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Romans 3:23-24

      January 2, 2013 at 1:46 pm |
    • Drew

      ….cedar….I don’t know what the sin in your life is but you do! Confess it to your God and ask Him for forgiveness! I didn’t say that, btw, God said you (and I) are sinners. You may choose not to believe that but don’t say the Bible doesn’t teach it because the Bible does teach – exactly – that!

      God doesn’t want you to ‘’convince yourself’’ of anything. He does everything. Faith is not a leap in the dark. If it is that to you….don’t leap! But why don’t you try asking God to make Himself real to you today – and He will. You don’t have to do a thing!

      The point of God setting up His system that you apparently don’t like is that He did it for His own pleasure. You may not like that but you don’t have a universe! Turn to your God today and He will answer all of your questions and help you with all your problems….

      January 2, 2013 at 1:48 pm |
    • Drew

      Grandma,
      Makes no difference how good you think you are – you're not! You (and I) are sinners that need a Savior! I didn't say that – God says that! You may not like it, but, too bad!

      January 2, 2013 at 1:52 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew….cedar….I don’t know what the sin in your life is but you do!'

      but you claimed atheists led sinful lives, so you therefore have to know what you believe is 'sinful' and which of these atheists do in order to be able to make such a claim.

      'I didn’t say that, btw'

      Yes you did........'unbelievers don't want to acknowledge God because they have a sinful lifestyle the Bible condems'
      That is a very specific claim that YOU made.

      'He did it for His own pleasure.'

      why? why would a god need 'pleasure'? why would a god need to experience that kind of an emotion, or any kind of emotion for that matter?

      January 2, 2013 at 1:58 pm |
    • Drew

      .... these are just basic Biblical principals....ask God to answer your questions and He will.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:30 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew

      .... these are just basic Biblical principals'

      what are? you have yet to state anything concrete to back up YOUR claim about the sinful lifestyles of atheists.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:37 pm |
    • Drew

      ....cedar....your comment here is typically made by those who are completely ignorant of the Word of God. I'm not in the habit of doing basic research for people they can do for themselves....good luck!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:45 pm |
    • The Truth

      Apparently some God nut has stolen my handle but religious morons have been masquerading as The Truth for quite some time so it's nothing new.

      God is not dead for something must have lived to die. God, in the sense that Christians and religious zealots like to claim, just does not exist and anyone making the claim should be seen for what they are, either liars and villians attempting to use divinity to control the masses or just plain ignorant folk who have been bamboozled by the former. That is The Truth.

      January 2, 2013 at 2:52 pm |
    • Drew

      ....yeah, Truth.....we're all lining up to use your ingenius handle and to impersonate you....LOL!!!!

      January 2, 2013 at 2:57 pm |
    • Drew

      ....and you're right, Truth (although I suspect you didn't write what you meant to say). God isn't dead – Mohammed, Buddha, etc. – they're all dead. But Christ is alive!

      January 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • The Truth

      @Drew – "your comment here is typically made by those who are completely ignorant of the Word of God"

      Actually, as has been proven time and time again, atheists know more about your book than you do. I myself have read it several times cover to cover and studied it for 30 years and used my faith to plug the holes in logic that leaky boat of prophecy had that I was able to keep it from sinking in my mind for decades. The panic the religious are feeling is that their boat is sinking beneath them, and every time a scientist makes a new discovery about our universe another cork of faith flies into the air revealing another major leak in logic. Eventually they will realize that they went out on the ocean of reallity in a corked colander...

      January 2, 2013 at 3:00 pm |
    • The Truth OP

      I love science. I embrace it. My church encourages this.

      Science = study of God's physical laws

      January 2, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Saraswati

      Making this kind of simplistic statement about "atheists" is as silly as saying "Christians are narrow minded bigots". Both are diverse groups, and this kind of silly statement from either side just dumbs down the conversation.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:04 pm |
    • Drew

      Truth, you may read the Bible a million times looking for contradictions and inconsistencies. If you have never asked the Holy Spirit to make Himself real and meaningful to your heart, then your ‘’study’’ is insincere, at best. If the Holy Spirit doesn’t open the Word of God to you it will remain as closed as your understanding is today…..

      January 2, 2013 at 3:11 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Drew
      ....cedar....your comment here is typically made by those who are completely ignorant of the Word of God. I'm not in the habit of doing basic research for people they can do for themselves....good luck!'

      In other words you have nothing to back up YOUR claim of atheists living sinful lifestyles and that is why they 'deny' god.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:12 pm |
    • Drew

      ....no, cedar, people deny God because they are sinners and they don't like to be called that! LOL!

      January 2, 2013 at 3:22 pm |
    • The Truth

      You are drowning in a sea of Logic Drew and I understand your frustration. I have thrown some reasoned life preserveres your way but you choose to choke on your falsehoods and drown, that is up to you. If you keep repeating someone elses lie even if you believe the lie, you are still a liar.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:25 pm |
    • The Truth OP

      Drew doesn't seem to be drowning to me. That is your opinion.

      I do know the words of God are foolish to those who are perishing.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:27 pm |
    • The Truth

      @Drew, The Truth OP or any other Christian touting their God. Have you ever actually studied and read any other supposedly "divinely" inspired works? I have and they all read with the exact same authority as the bible, they claim this is the truth, the only truth and nothing but the truth. Then when faced with an error such as the global flood account which has been shown to be impossible by geologists, they make excuses. When shown that the lineage that Genesis spells out father to son with ages going from Adam all the way down to Abraham and known dates based on Moses writings, and then compared to the 40,000 year old cave art and even the remnants of large civilizations from 10,000 – 12,000 years ago like Gobekli Tepe PROVE the bible false, and yet the apologists come out in full force making excuses. THE BIBLE, THE BOOK OF MORMON, THE QURAN, THE BHAGAVAD GITA, THEY ARE ALL LIES. ACCEPT IT AND GROW UP.

      January 2, 2013 at 3:52 pm |
  8. William Demuth

    I wonder if someone digging on Spahn Ranch migh someday find the writings of Charles Manson and deem the of great import?

    I hope if they are ever found, they will be burned, as these rags should have been.

    Otherwise fools in the future will worship a caricature of a madman, just as todays fools do.

    January 2, 2013 at 9:26 am |
    • Seyedibar

      entirely possible! Consider what the Mormon church has built based on the words of the sadist/thief/fraud Joseph Smith.

      January 2, 2013 at 10:38 am |
    • SurferChick

      While I agree that anything written by Manson should not be published I think that the Dead Sea Scrolls are indeed a treasure. I also believe that the ancient writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other holy scriptures would be beyond shocked that there are some modern-man who believe these treasures as literal and not the beautifully written metaphors they are.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:21 am |
  9. pnesswrinkle

    So Bootyfunk, apple bush, mama k, and Akira.....starting to see this trend where you troll from story to story saying same thing. You wait for a theist to say something so you can start your "superior" arguments. of course they aren't arguments at all. They are just refuting the arguments of others. In fact, if I have this correct...you don't believe in god yet find it necessary to argue with those who do?? got much time on your hands? Of course Moby...continues crybating...."I don't believe in god but he's such a d!ck boo hoo(continues crybating). Thank...Science?..we have your rational mind.

    January 2, 2013 at 6:36 am |
  10. saggyroy

    I got to see some of the fragments (I don't remember how many) when they were loaned to the Van Andel Museum in Grand Rapids. It was an awesome display, but did not prove to me anything about the bible as being the words of a god. It proved the bible was written. I would go see them if you have a chance. They live in Israel, and aren't lent out often.

    January 2, 2013 at 6:23 am |
  11. Universe

    God in Quran says, (holy Islamic scripture)

    “They even attribute to Him sons and daughters, without any knowledge. Be He glorified. He is the Most High, far above their claims.” Quran [6:100]

    “The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.” Quran [3:59]

    ‘They said, "You have to be Jewish or Christian, to be guided." Say, "We follow the religion of Abraham – monotheism – he never was an idol worshiper." [2:135]

    “Proclaim, He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him." [112:1]

    The Messiah, son of Mary is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate! [5:75]

    It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is. [19:35]

    “No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. ... [35:18]

    O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully: the idols you set up beside God can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued. [22:73]

    They do not value God as He should be valued. God is the Most Powerful, the Almighty.[22:74]

    If you obey the majority of people on earth, they will divert you from the path of God. They follow only conjecture; they only guess. [Quran 6:116]

    “There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in God has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. God is Hearer, Omniscient.” [2:256]

    “God: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.” [2:255]

    Thanks for taking time to read my post. Please take a moment to clear your misconception by going to whyIslam org website.

    January 1, 2013 at 11:06 pm |
    • Kebos

      What you've done here is reaffirm for me that the Quran is as bad as the Bible when it comes to misinformation. Just because something has been written down doesn't make it true. Just because someone says Allah is the one true god and has not been begat from another doesn't make it true.

      Time to start living in the real world because your belief, and others like you, are irrelevant, antiquated and anti-social.

      January 2, 2013 at 7:58 am |
    • Holly Habib

      And what is the right way? Promiscuous men and women, lust and greed, love for more material goods then required, like latest gadgets, killing innocent men, women and children because we need oil or because we want to spread democracy, eating more than our body requires, wasting food, the list can go on and on ...

      January 2, 2013 at 10:58 am |
    • Iesha Kadijah (nick name)

      Discovery of Dead Sea Scrolls again proves the authority of the Bible. The message of the Bible has not been changed as claimed by Mulsims.
      This discovery HISTORICALLY proves that Muslim claims are false.
      God of the Bible protected HIS Message and we still have it.
      OT foretold about the MESSIAH who would die for the sins (Isaiah 53, Daniel 9:24-26) and NT proclaims the death and resurrection of Jesus for our sins.
      Anyone who denies this message is in error. Mohammad and Quran denied this message. This is why Mohammad could not know whether he would go to heaven and commited many serious sins.
      Infact, he admitted that he had revelations from Satan which NONE of the Biblical prophets had.
      It is possible to think that it is the messages that came from Satan that contradicted with the Biblical teachings of the death of Jesus and His Sonship.
      1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
      1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

      The truth is:
      Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:35 am |
  12. Tell the TRUTH

    Dead Sea Scrolls prove the AUTHENTICITY of the message of the Bible.
    Muslims have long been criticizing that Bible has been changed. Here is the HISTORICAL proof that the message of the Bible has not been changed!!
    For example, just compare the Isaiah Dead Sea Scroll with the present day Isaiah chapter 53. You will find that the message is SAME except that there is minor spelling mistakes. Isaiah 53 speak of the Messiah who would DIE for others SINS.
    Now is the time for an honest Muslim to accept the Word of God (the Bible), accept that Jesus died for your sins to be saved from hell punishment.

    January 1, 2013 at 10:04 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      Holy Sh!t, you worship a being so disgusting that it allows a place of eternal torture to exist at all for anyone?!? Can anyone think of a more disgusting and evil being than one that allows that? You can keep your azzhole terrorist torturing god if you want. I'll have no part of such disgusting behavior.

      January 1, 2013 at 10:07 pm |
    • there is no other truth but truth absolute, and truth absolute is LORD AND GOD OF THE WORLD.

      Ya, never changed, corruption of true Torah, nothing change, just proof of hinduism, corruption of truth, handy work of hindu Jew's, filthy secular, originated in Egypt and repeated in book of hindu pagan Mithra ism, savior ism bible.

      January 1, 2013 at 10:15 pm |
    • THE TRUTH

      Some people actually choose to live in hell, they hate God. The Great Spirit is holy. He doesn't make His ways too difficult for those who want to know Him.

      January 1, 2013 at 10:17 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      I don't care whether some idiot CHOOSES to go to hell. God shouldn't allow it. He shouldn't allow its existence. That's what makes god the most evil and disgusting azzhole of all time--–he allows the place to exist.

      January 1, 2013 at 11:14 pm |
    • peddlers

      there is no place of eternal torment. ask all believers of hell if they would stick the hand of the person they love most over a fire, just for a quick 30 seconds. NO! they will say but accuse God of doing so eternally! Eternal torment is not a Bible teaching, it is a secular apostate teaching.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:55 am |
    • Chick-a-dee

      @ Moby Schtick: It's not for you or any other human being to decide what God “should” or “shouldn't” do. Where in the world did you get the idea that you have that kind of input?
      @ peddlers:
      Sorry. This is absolutely not a secular teaching.

      IV. HELL
      1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
      http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm
      Catechism of the Catholic Church

      January 2, 2013 at 4:33 am |
    • Bootyfunk

      love me or be tortured forever.... yeah, that's the twisted kind of love an abusive husband has for his wife....

      January 2, 2013 at 5:29 am |
    • Chick-a-dee

      No, it's more like participate in love – both giving and receiving, or exist in an isolated void as you have chosen to do.

      Now, that's an easy concept. Look around you. There are plenty of people living isolated, miserable lives because they have chosen to do so. They live in a hell of their own making. You can see it. From the posts left on this blog it's easy to see how frequently people choose to be miserable coots regardless of age.

      Do you choose do be a provocateur or are you simply too obtuse to grasp this?

      January 2, 2013 at 6:05 am |
    • saggyroy

      ...and Cinderella PROVES pumpkins turn into carriages! Amazing! I wonder what else a squash can do?

      January 2, 2013 at 6:17 am |
    • Kebos

      So what. It's the same. That logic doesn't mean the message is true. Merely that it was written by someone who lacked the knowledge to understand the true nature of life.

      January 2, 2013 at 7:59 am |
    • Seyedibar

      The words and phrases in the bible have been changed repeatedly. It was penned by 4 seperate authors in 4 seperate centuries. There are even moments of the bible when the medieval author breaks the story to interject his own opinion. For instance, the tale of Jerubaal was written around 1100 BCE, but by the 4th century, an editor changed his name to Gideon because he finds it blasphemous to write Jerubaal's name. The editor doesn't understand why God would show favor to a Baal worshiper.

      January 2, 2013 at 8:11 am |
    • Seyedibar

      Another huge difference is the beginning phrase of Genesis. The King James version was changed to start: "In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth." This is based on a Greek translation done 1000 years ago.

      Yet the Dead Sea Scrolls, 1000 yrs older, begins Genesis thus: "When on high, the Elohim created a clearing (an area where the trees have been felled)."

      The phrase "when on high" designates the ancient Canaanite tradition of building the royalty's house on a hill or mountain overlooking his subjects' land.

      January 2, 2013 at 8:41 am |
    • SurelyUjest

      This is why the Bible, Torah and Koran are so out of step with human's of this century. We can see for Billions of light years.....yet no heaven, we can dig miles to the center of the Earth yet no Hell. If this isnt enough proof that your God doesnt exist, lets use logic. 1st imagine an all seeing, all knowing future and past, all powerful Diety. 2nd Imagine this being needing our "love" our "faith" our "devotion". 3rd Imagine this being/diety needing to "test" his children by giving them "free will" even though he already knows who will choose and who will not to support him. Lastly Imagine this God/Deity punishing some of his children for not following his doctrine and rewarding others for following him even though He already knows the answer. Why not create robots if that is what God wants, why play games with his creation other than for some twisted amusement with no real enlightenment gained in the end? This is why these books are false and written by MEN to control MEN and Women enough said.

      January 2, 2013 at 10:22 am |
    • Nope

      It seems like you based your understanding of heaven and heLL by watching too many cartoons.

      God dwells in another dimension – where time and matter don't exist. A spiritual world. Eternity. We can barely even begin to wrap our brains around this concept...

      January 2, 2013 at 10:51 am |
    • Nope

      > Why not create robots if that is what God wants, why play games with his creation other than for some twisted amusement with no real enlightenment gained in the end?

      Robots can't love. I love God. Maybe if He can find just a few people that love Him it is worth it.

      God said this creation of His is not perfect. And that is ok.

      January 2, 2013 at 10:54 am |
    • Seyedibar

      @Nope
      I loved God once too. In fact Ioved him so much that I wanted to know everything there was to know surrounding the bible, it's authors, and history. Unfortnately, the more you educate yourself on the bible, the more impossible it is to believe. My love for a god has now been replaced by a reverence for the amount of history that was preserved by masquerading as dogma. It is now accepted fact that the Hebrew "gods" were nothing more than vassals to the Egyptian empire.
      While I applaud that the New Testament tries to build a dogma out of love, that dogma is based on fraudelent misperceptions of Old Testament writings, which completely invalidates any of Christianity's supernatural claims.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:15 am |
    • mkar

      @Chick-a-dee
      Vatican definitions are nothing unless substantiated by quotes from bible. Bible clearly talks of eternal hell fire..

      January 2, 2013 at 11:39 am |
    • Nope

      The gospel of Jesus Christ clears some of my doubts. A God who created us and wants to be with us... to find joy and sorrow with us.

      January 2, 2013 at 11:43 am |
    • hal 9001

      I'm sorry, "Nope", "Chick-a-dee", and "Tell the TRUTH", but "God" and "Christ" are elements of mythology, therefore your assertions are unfounded. Using my Idiomatic Expression Equivalency module (IEE), the expression that best matches the degree to which your assertions may represent truths is: "TOTAL FAIL".

      I see that you repeat these unfounded statements with high frequency. Perhaps the following book can help you:

      I'm Told I Have Dementia: What You Can Do... Who You Can Turn to...

      January 2, 2013 at 11:51 am |
    • Nope

      I believe in God. I know he exists.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:02 pm |
    • Nope

      And my great aunt has dementia. It is tough on our family. A lot of people struggle with this very real problem.

      I don't think it is nice to make a joke about it.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm |
    • hal 9001

      Since you keep repeating unfounded statements, and do not show any signs of learning from logical statements presented to you, I can only assume that you suffer from some form of dementia, "Nope". Of course, the problem could be something else. I thought the book might help you understand the illogical assumptions you make on a repeated basis.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm |
    • Nope

      I believe God exists. I don't have to prove this to you in a message board to make it true. I also believe you are a jerk.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:14 pm |
    • Oy

      I do believe you are a troll, sir, posting under several names. You didn't think people would notice your almost identical ridiculous postings?

      January 2, 2013 at 12:36 pm |
    • The Truth

      I'm post as Nope and The Truth.

      Somebody followed me around trying to bully me under another handle. Somebody stole another handle and tainted the name.

      Hi "oy", I don't think I've seen you post before.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:38 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'Now is the time for an honest Muslim to accept the Word of God (the Bible), accept that Jesus died for your sins to be saved from hell punishment.'

      sorry but the dead sea scrolls have nothing to do with jesus, at all. To claim that because the DSS includes OT scripture that therefore NT scripture is true, is a nonsense argument.
      But if you want to claim the DSS as 'gospel' as it were, what about the fact that 60% contains books and texts from outside the OT, some of which were known at the time but rejected?

      January 2, 2013 at 12:55 pm |
    • pugh7755

      @ moby shtick

      You say God is sick because he allows Hell to exist? God gives everyone ample warning of how to avoid Hell. It is those that have sinned who see God as being sick for allowing Hell to exist. He has also give everyone free will to choose Heaven over Hell. However, by saying He is sick is only making sure you will one day discover Hell first hand. Until the day you die, you have the choice to make sure Hell is not a destination in your future. Furthermore, Hell was a place of punishment for the angel Satan, who opposed God and wanted to be God. So those who choose Hell over Heaven are sent to Hell. Choose Heaven and Hell is insignificant. All it takes is to turn you back on sin (repent) and accept Jesus' sacrifice and you won't have to worry about Hell. The choice is yours, nobody can make you choose one over the other. It is your free will to decide, but beware of the consequences of your choice.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:10 pm |
    • cedar rapids

      'He has also give everyone free will to choose Heaven over Hell. However, by saying He is sick is only making sure you will one day discover Hell first hand.'

      oh please, thats a mafia boss choice......i will put a gun to your head. Now, choose, either you do as I say or I will shoot you in the head. But its totally your choice, you are free to make whatever choice you like, either do as i say or be shot in the head....in my loving mercy.

      January 2, 2013 at 1:33 pm |
  13. Sam Yaza

    and one of the books has my story in it,.. ok the editor makes it seem like I'm the bad guy, but i tell you if a capricious tyrannical psychopath narcissus, with a napoleon complex, tries to kill the person you love and your children you would fight back to,...i hope

    January 1, 2013 at 7:45 pm |
  14. there is no other truth but truth absolute, and truth absolute is LORD AND GOD OF THE WORLD.

    Making some thing out of nothing, way of followers of hindu Mithra ism, savior ism , called Christianity, but hinduism racism of hindu racist Pharaoh's, hind, criminality of the hind, dark ages, touted as some thing to be truth, they have nothing in them, but recorded hinduism illegality, reject of son of blessed Mary, called Greek Torah, labeled as old testament to hind, fool humanity.

    January 1, 2013 at 7:31 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Hi hindu-bot.

      January 1, 2013 at 8:55 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      Happy 2013 AB, Akira, Dar!!

      January 1, 2013 at 9:27 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      Same to you...

      January 1, 2013 at 9:33 pm |
    • Mohammad A Dar

      @Dar, I am not expert on Jewish stuff, but do you know the Hebrew language has evolved or changed over the period of 2,000 years, Or it's still the same as Dead Sea Scrolls?

      January 1, 2013 at 9:39 pm |
    • there is no other truth but truth absolute, and truth absolute is LORD AND GOD OF THE WORLD.

      Hebrew is pure Latin, so is Quranic Arabic, Divination by blend of Sanskrit is called Yiddish. If any one seeks meaning's of true Hebrew, one has to consult Quran. Arabic is not a language, but greatly misunderstood, it is an adjective, so is Latin. Please discount day to day Arabic. BY THE WAY HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERY ONE.

      January 1, 2013 at 10:09 pm |
    • Akira

      Happy New Year, MAD, Apple, Dar, everyone else...

      January 1, 2013 at 10:23 pm |
    • Seyedibar

      Mithraism shares an origin in Christianity. It is all based on the hero worship of an asiatic pharaoh named Meruserhre Yakubher. The hebrews knew him as Lord Yahweh and Methuselah. The Hindus knew him as Mitra-Suya. He ruled only 8 years, but his sons continued the worship in the name of Yak(Yah),and his political followers became the Mithra mystery school which revered the ruler for his oath to deliver the land to the native peoples as Egypt's empire crumbled.

      January 2, 2013 at 8:21 am |
    • sortakinda

      How do you fit in a cuckoo clock?

      January 2, 2013 at 2:44 pm |
  15. Chad

    Dead Sea scrolls are a wonderful statement about the preservation of the biblical text throughout history. With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the date of our earliest manuscript was pushed back over a 1000 years.
    Over a thousand years earlier than our earliest manuscripts of the time.

    A THOUSAND YEARS, and no change in the text. A feat NO OTHER TRANSMITTED TEXT comes close to.

    The Old Testament that we use today is translated from what is called the Masoretic Text. The Masoretes were Jewish scholars who between A.D. 500 and 950 gave the Old Testament the form that we use today. Until the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947, the oldest Hebrew text of the Old Testament was the Masoretic Aleppo Codex which dates to A.D. 935

    With the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, we now had manuscripts that predated the Masoretic Text by about one thousand years. Scholars were anxious to see how the Dead Sea docu ments would match up with the Masoretic Text. If a significant amount of differences were found, we could conclude that our Old Testament Text had not been well preserved. Critics, along with religious groups such as Muslims and Mormons, often make the claim that the present day Old Testament has been corrupted and is not well preserved. According to these religious groups, this would explain the contradictions between the Old Testament and their religious teachings.

    After years of careful study, it has been concluded that the Dead Sea Scrolls give substantial confirmation that our Old Testament has been accurately preserved. The scrolls were found to be almost identical with the Masoretic text. Hebrew Scholar Millar Burrows writes, "It is a matter of wonder that through something like one thousand years the text underwent so little alteration. As I said in my first article on the scroll, ‘Herein lies its chief importance, supporting the fidelity of the Masoretic tradition.'" - Dr. Patrick Zukeran

    January 1, 2013 at 7:08 pm |
    • there is no other truth but truth absolute, and truth absolute is LORD AND GOD OF THE WORLD.

      Book of hindu Mithra ism, savior ism labeled old testament is translation of hindu corrupted Torah called Greek Torah by a hindu Jew criminal secular by faith, Ben Asheer with commentary and published by his son in 3rd century AD, reject of son of blessed Mary, adopted by Roman's followers of hindu Mithra ism, racist savior ism as a foundation to create hinduism illegality under a hindu fabricated personality called Jesus. hinduism,

      January 1, 2013 at 7:46 pm |
    • Moby Schtick

      And yet the book is still wrong in more ways than we can count, stupid beyond any capacity to believe the thing, and presents a god so inconsistent as cannot even be evaluated as a reasonable character that might possibly exist or not.

      January 1, 2013 at 7:52 pm |
    • Rachel

      @Chad, Fantastic post! thanks for sharing :)

      January 1, 2013 at 9:48 pm |
    • Bob

      Proof that some fable is really old.

      January 1, 2013 at 9:51 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wow. Chad's REALLY struggling. His alter ego popped up.

      Or are you getting in touch with your feminine side, Chard?

      January 1, 2013 at 9:56 pm |
    • small 'c' christian

      All right, so the scrolls show that the text of the Old Testament books is largely unchanged. However, it is amazing to me how few times I've seen mention of the non-canonical texts that were stored in the same caves- testaments decreed by the Roman oligarcs of the second century to be heresy, thus not to be included in "their" version of what we now call the New Testament. If the texts of the Old Testament have barely changed in two millenia, imagine how different would the world be if the fabricators of the NT had chosen to include more than four gospels in their text? If they had included the Gospel of Judas? That of Mary? etc, etc... The arbitrary decision to limit the included gospels in the Canon to only four was perhaps the single greatest limiting factor to Christianity we have ever seen, yet so few people question it...

      January 2, 2013 at 3:16 am |
    • Chick-a-dee

      @ small c:

      A brief history of how the canon of the books of the bible.
      http://www.ewtn.com/library/answers/deuteros.htm

      The Gospel of Judas and the Gospel of Mary are part of the Gnostic heresy and not authentic books of holy scripture.
      http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/zjudas.HTM
      http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=297426&language=en
      http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=322690&language=en

      January 2, 2013 at 4:51 am |
    • Seyedibar

      As i pointed out above, there are massive changes in the text. For starters, the Masoretic version of Genesis makes it clear that Genesis was neither the beginning of the human race, nor did the Elohim live in Heaven. it makes clear reference to clear cutting the forest and building an enclosed plantation and even uses the same language as phrases that exalt egyptian royalty. The Dead Sea Scrolls are lethal to Christian dogma.

      January 2, 2013 at 8:46 am |
    • Chad

      @Seyedibar,
      utter nonsense.. you are comparing later english translations ..

      Comparing Dead Sea Scrolls with the Hebrew Masoretic shows virtually no textual corruption..

      January 2, 2013 at 12:37 pm |
    • Chad

      @small 'c' christian

      =>Dead Sea Scrolls contained NONE of the non-canonical New Testament docs such as Gospel of Judas, Gospel of Mary, etc..

      Carbon 14 tests on the linen wrappings of the scrolls yields dating of c. 327 B.C. – A.D. 73.
      The apocryphal writings you reference were written much later than that.

      January 2, 2013 at 12:41 pm |
  16. johhn316

    This is great!

    January 1, 2013 at 6:53 pm |
  17. snowboarder

    in whos imagination would the dead sea scrolls be one of the most significant discoveries of the 20th century?

    January 1, 2013 at 6:38 pm |
    • Apple Bush

      It's me snowboarder. Sorry. Click on my Name-hyperlink to see me researching.

      January 1, 2013 at 6:52 pm |
    • Thinker23

      "in whos imagination would the dead sea scrolls be one of the most significant discoveries of the 20th century?"

      In imagination of most every educated and intelligent individual on the planet.

      January 1, 2013 at 7:05 pm |
    • Benny

      Whether you like it or not; whether you believe the Bible or not; whether you are Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Taoist, Shintoist, agnostic, atheist or a panda bear, you cannot deny that the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) are likely the single most influential work in the history of mankind. It has affected more change (and lack-thereof) than any other work in history. It has led to the rise and fall of nations, the rise and fall of religions, the spread and suppression of knowledge.

      What have you done worth note, lately?

      January 2, 2013 at 12:28 am |
  18. Mohammad A Dar

    Thank Google goons!! Google has been doing an absolutely outstanding job on digitizing rare books, manuscripts, artwork, photographs from US, British museums, universities and placing them on internet, my favorite is collection of over 30,000 LIFE magazine photographs, I call Dead Sea Scrolls a rare find, I hope they are not being manipulated to prove one religion's superiority over others

    January 1, 2013 at 5:47 pm |
  19. Bootyfunk

    the very first part of the very first scroll reads:
    "Once upon a time..."

    January 1, 2013 at 5:00 pm |
  20. mama k

    Are they still dead?

    December 31, 2012 at 8:12 pm |
    • avi8torgrl

      No,,, apparently you are though from the neck up

      January 1, 2013 at 9:50 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.